Hi Didier, Op 23-11-12 15:22, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud schreef: > Hi Paul, > > Le mercredi, 21 novembre 2012 14.39:02, Paul van der Vlis a écrit : >> Very silent here. >> >> In my opinion it's not a good idea to make Debian FSF-free at the >> moment. But what we should do is to make Debian "almost FSF-free" and >> make some steps in the good direction. >> >> In my opinion we could do the following: >> >> 1. Move the non-free and the contrib repository from the debian.org >> domain to another domain name, under control of DD's. > > Given our Social Contract, paragraph 5 [SC5]: > > " We acknowledge that some of our users require the use of works that > do not conform to the Debian Free Software Guidelines. We have > created "contrib" and "non-free" areas in our archive for these > works. The packages in these areas are not part of the Debian > system, although they have been configured for use with Debian." > > I would argue that moving "contrib" and "non-free" out of Debian > infrastructure would need a Social Contract amendment, thereby a GR. > > (If you read it to the letter, it could not be strictly needed, as one could > read "we have created … in our archive" as a historical fact more than a > binding point. Yet I think such a change has to go through the body of > developers).
When we create an archive at another domain name as debian.org (e.g. on non-free.org), why isn't it "our archive"? But no problem with a general resolution. >> 2. Change the installer in a manner that no non-free firmware is advised >> anymore, but that you still can use it. > > … besides on hardware where you can't. What I mean is that the installer offers a way to use non-free firmware, but it just not advices it. > We currently have both documentation and code that permit one user that > chooses so to use firmwares (e.g.). Removing both these is IMHO controversial > and should probably also go through a GR. > > The "firmware" question is also a slightly different one than the whole "non- > free" problem: some firmwares are as freely distributed as CPU microcode, > where the latter is an absolute requirement to have an OS run. My feeling > here > is that there ''might'' be consensus around making a new "firmware" archive > area, specifically for pieces of code not executed by CPUs but needed to make > them run. > >> 3. Remove recommendations or suggestions to non-free software in packages. > > See the tech-ctte discussion: http://bugs.debian.org/681419 From the non- > debated part of the statement: > > " The Debian Policy Manual states (§2.2.1) that packages in main > "must not require or recommend a package outside of main for > compilation or execution". Both "Depends: package-in-non-free" and > "Recommends: package-in-non-free" clearly violate this requirement." > > So these issues are serious bugs already. For part not addresses by the tech- > ctte bug, I think you won't find consensus to drop non-free Suggests. I think most people will not have big problems with it, suggestions are not really important in my opinion. >> What we cannot do at the moment is remove non-free and contrib >> completely, and we also cannot remove all documentation about non-free >> software and firmware. > > I think even moving them out of debian.org realm would need a GR, both > because > it's IMHO a change of our foundation documents and because it's a > sufficiently > important change to warrant an explicit (n)ack from the body of developers. > > (And that's without talking about the infrastructure changes to make it clear > on the Debian side while the mirrors (that are not all under our > responsibility), will keep on putting main/contrib/non-free contents on the > same harddisks, making the whole exercise quite moot IMHO.) True, it will be work. And maybe non-free and contrib will have not the same nice infrastructure as debian.org has. With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen http://www.vandervlis.nl _______________________________________________ Fsf-collab-discuss mailing list Fsf-collab-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/fsf-collab-discuss