Are not Retained Earnings part of Equity? And then, that account would only be used in a close books process, not without it. Closing the books should zero the income and expense accounts TO Retained Earnings.
Regards, Adrien > On Aug 13, 2018, at 12:04 AM, Christopher Lam <christopher....@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Jralls > > So just wish to double check my understanding of gnucash's data format for a > balance-sheet on date X > > There are two possibilities for displaying the right-hand-side > > 1. Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings + Trading Balances > 2. Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings + Unrealized Gains > > "Retained Earnings" should be NULL if the user has properly closed the books > on the balance sheet date X. > > In my understanding, "Trading Balances" and "Unrealized Gains" are one and > the same -- in balance-sheet.scm the unrealized-gain-collector is only > populated if book->trading-accounts setting is disabled. (btw this causes a > 'bug' whereby a book with 'enable-trading-accounts', but was later switched > to 'disable-trading-accounts' will then add both the > unrealized-gain-collector and the trading-balance the right-hand-side). > > This seems to be deconstruct current balance-sheet? > > (I can't seem to find any unrealized-gain issue... from using different > price-sources... perhaps this is beyond my understanding.) > > > On 11/08/18 22:41, John Ralls wrote: >> Chris, >> >> Remember that we’ve long advised users that they need not close their books, >> they can run a balance sheet report for any day. IMO removing that >> capability would be a major breakage. >> >> I suspect that you needed to use trading accounts because you didn’t book >> the trading gains and losses as income. Users should do that regardless of >> using trading accounts and doing so should make it unnecessary for the >> balance sheet report to include trading accounts. >> >> Unrealized gains are another matter entirely and are a result of using >> prices from the price database instead of actual cost from the transaction >> data. IMO the balance sheet report shouldn’t be taking prices from the price >> db and shouldn’t be able to see unrealized gains, but if price source is >> going to be an option then an unrealized gains line flows from that so that >> users don’t waste a bunch of time chasing an imbalance caused by price >> differences. >> >> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775368 is related because that’s >> currently how the balance sheet report gets the “actual” costs. >> >> Regards, >> John Ralls >> >>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 11:40 PM, Christopher Lam <christopher....@gmail.com >>> <mailto:christopher....@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi John >>> >>> I've managed to make the left-side (activa?) match the right-side (passiva?) >>> >>> https://screenshots.firefox.com/RNvkjaxnYyxpGkYn/null >>> >>> 1) it does require closing books on the balance-sheet date >>> >>> 2) it does require adding trading-accounts >>> >>> The existing balsheet introduces/calculates the "Retained Earnings", >>> "Trading Gains" and "Unrealized Gains", whereas the current iteration of >>> new-balsheet will not. >>> >>> To me this is the easiest method to ensure both sides produce the same >>> total, and is now technically correct - if the user has not closed their >>> books, the balance sheet won't balance. >>> >>> This is giving me a headache :( >>> >>> Should a new balsheet calculate and report these '(fake) retained >>> earnings', and 'unrealized gains' ??? >>> >>> C >>> >>> >>> On 09/08/18 08:32, John Ralls wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:51 AM, Geert Janssens <geert.gnuc...@kobaltwit.be> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I haven't been following every detail of this. However I note on most >>>>> balance >>>>> sheets the total assets doesn't match total net worth (or >>>>> liabilities/equity). >>>>> In most, this is fixed by including the retained earnings. >>>>> >>>>> I believe at least in most European countries the "left hand side" >>>>> (Assets, >>>>> Active) and "right hand side" (Passive or liabilities + equity) of the >>>>> multicolumn view should balance (it's called balance sheet for a reason). >>>>> That would suggest retained earnings does have to be part of the balance >>>>> sheet. >>>>> >>>>> However I'm not an accountant and perhaps your book is slightly contrived >>>>> so I >>>>> don't know the exact answer here. >>>>> >>>>> As for the "multi-column" vs one column debate, both present the same >>>>> data. >>>>> The only difference is visual representation or style. >>>>> >>>>> As of recently I have become a strong proponent of separating structure >>>>> (or >>>>> accounting functionality in a different context) from style, I think this >>>>> should be delegated to the realm of css. This particular layout variation >>>>> can >>>>> IMO be handled by making divs for each large group and either let them >>>>> follow >>>>> normal flow or use float to move them next to each other. If you will you >>>>> can >>>>> have a European style sheet and an American one, or an Australian or >>>>> whatever. >>>>> >>>>> As for "categories", I read Frank's earlier reply as if he agreed that at >>>>> least for now the account organization is something to be done in the >>>>> CoA, not >>>>> in report code. >>>> The Balance Sheet is indeed supposed to balance, but in normal practice it >>>> balances only when the book is “closed”, i.e. when all of the income and >>>> expense accounts are summed up and added to Equity. In US corporate books >>>> the cumulative total of income and expenses lives in an Equity account >>>> called “Retained Earnings”. >>>> >>>> In the pen-and-paper days a “Trial Balance” was computed outside of the >>>> books before closing as a way to catch errors before making the closing >>>> entries and writing the formal Balance Sheet. >>>> >>>> GnuCash's existing Balance Sheet Report creates the “Retained Earnings” >>>> line so that one need not close the books (Tools>Close Book) in order to >>>> get a balanced report. Removing that feature might be more formally >>>> correct but it would mean that users would have to close their book before >>>> running a balance sheet. That would be a big change and I don’t think that >>>> we want to do it. On the other hand “Retained Earnings” isn’t the right >>>> term for many cases, so it would be a useful improvement to make it >>>> configurable. >>>> >>>> There’s a second problem with the current report as well: If the user does >>>> close their books periodically they’ll have an account for the >>>> accumulation that may well be called “Retained Earnings”. The Balance >>>> Sheet Report will dutifully report the contents of that account and, if >>>> there are income and expenses after the last close, add a second “Retained >>>> Earnings” line. That looks a bit odd and might be confusing; ISTR we’ve >>>> had comments on the user list about just that. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> John Ralls >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >> > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel _______________________________________________ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
