Sorry John, I forgot that GnuCash used the same term for the calculated amount.
Yet another case where my fingers need to slow down and let my brain ponder things. Regards, Adrien > On Aug 13, 2018, at 9:08 AM, John Ralls <jra...@ceridwen.us> wrote: > > Adrien, > > Yes, that’s formally correct. As I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, GnuCash > has long had a design feature that one can get a balanced Balance Sheet > report without closing one’s book. The Balance Sheet report does that by > summing up the expense and income accounts’ balances and reporting the total > in a “Retained Earnings” line. If one has closed one’s book in the past and > so has a “Retained Earnings” account, the Balance Sheet report will have two > lines called “Retained Earnings”. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > >> On Aug 12, 2018, at 10:26 PM, Adrien Monteleone >> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >> >> Are not Retained Earnings part of Equity? And then, that account would only >> be used in a close books process, not without it. Closing the books should >> zero the income and expense accounts TO Retained Earnings. >> >> Regards, >> Adrien >> >>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 12:04 AM, Christopher Lam <christopher....@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jralls >>> >>> So just wish to double check my understanding of gnucash's data format for >>> a balance-sheet on date X >>> >>> There are two possibilities for displaying the right-hand-side >>> >>> 1. Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings + Trading Balances >>> 2. Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings + Unrealized Gains >>> >>> "Retained Earnings" should be NULL if the user has properly closed the >>> books on the balance sheet date X. >>> >>> In my understanding, "Trading Balances" and "Unrealized Gains" are one and >>> the same -- in balance-sheet.scm the unrealized-gain-collector is only >>> populated if book->trading-accounts setting is disabled. (btw this causes a >>> 'bug' whereby a book with 'enable-trading-accounts', but was later switched >>> to 'disable-trading-accounts' will then add both the >>> unrealized-gain-collector and the trading-balance the right-hand-side). >>> >>> This seems to be deconstruct current balance-sheet? >>> >>> (I can't seem to find any unrealized-gain issue... from using different >>> price-sources... perhaps this is beyond my understanding.) >>> >>> >>> On 11/08/18 22:41, John Ralls wrote: >>>> Chris, >>>> >>>> Remember that we’ve long advised users that they need not close their >>>> books, they can run a balance sheet report for any day. IMO removing that >>>> capability would be a major breakage. >>>> >>>> I suspect that you needed to use trading accounts because you didn’t book >>>> the trading gains and losses as income. Users should do that regardless of >>>> using trading accounts and doing so should make it unnecessary for the >>>> balance sheet report to include trading accounts. >>>> >>>> Unrealized gains are another matter entirely and are a result of using >>>> prices from the price database instead of actual cost from the transaction >>>> data. IMO the balance sheet report shouldn’t be taking prices from the >>>> price db and shouldn’t be able to see unrealized gains, but if price >>>> source is going to be an option then an unrealized gains line flows from >>>> that so that users don’t waste a bunch of time chasing an imbalance caused >>>> by price differences. >>>> >>>> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775368 is related because that’s >>>> currently how the balance sheet report gets the “actual” costs. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> John Ralls >>>> >>>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 11:40 PM, Christopher Lam <christopher....@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:christopher....@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi John >>>>> >>>>> I've managed to make the left-side (activa?) match the right-side >>>>> (passiva?) >>>>> >>>>> https://screenshots.firefox.com/RNvkjaxnYyxpGkYn/null >>>>> >>>>> 1) it does require closing books on the balance-sheet date >>>>> >>>>> 2) it does require adding trading-accounts >>>>> >>>>> The existing balsheet introduces/calculates the "Retained Earnings", >>>>> "Trading Gains" and "Unrealized Gains", whereas the current iteration of >>>>> new-balsheet will not. >>>>> >>>>> To me this is the easiest method to ensure both sides produce the same >>>>> total, and is now technically correct - if the user has not closed their >>>>> books, the balance sheet won't balance. >>>>> >>>>> This is giving me a headache :( >>>>> >>>>> Should a new balsheet calculate and report these '(fake) retained >>>>> earnings', and 'unrealized gains' ??? >>>>> >>>>> C >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 09/08/18 08:32, John Ralls wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:51 AM, Geert Janssens <geert.gnuc...@kobaltwit.be> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't been following every detail of this. However I note on most >>>>>>> balance >>>>>>> sheets the total assets doesn't match total net worth (or >>>>>>> liabilities/equity). >>>>>>> In most, this is fixed by including the retained earnings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe at least in most European countries the "left hand side" >>>>>>> (Assets, >>>>>>> Active) and "right hand side" (Passive or liabilities + equity) of the >>>>>>> multicolumn view should balance (it's called balance sheet for a >>>>>>> reason). >>>>>>> That would suggest retained earnings does have to be part of the balance >>>>>>> sheet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However I'm not an accountant and perhaps your book is slightly >>>>>>> contrived so I >>>>>>> don't know the exact answer here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the "multi-column" vs one column debate, both present the same >>>>>>> data. >>>>>>> The only difference is visual representation or style. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As of recently I have become a strong proponent of separating structure >>>>>>> (or >>>>>>> accounting functionality in a different context) from style, I think >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> should be delegated to the realm of css. This particular layout >>>>>>> variation can >>>>>>> IMO be handled by making divs for each large group and either let them >>>>>>> follow >>>>>>> normal flow or use float to move them next to each other. If you will >>>>>>> you can >>>>>>> have a European style sheet and an American one, or an Australian or >>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for "categories", I read Frank's earlier reply as if he agreed that >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> least for now the account organization is something to be done in the >>>>>>> CoA, not >>>>>>> in report code. >>>>>> The Balance Sheet is indeed supposed to balance, but in normal practice >>>>>> it balances only when the book is “closed”, i.e. when all of the income >>>>>> and expense accounts are summed up and added to Equity. In US corporate >>>>>> books the cumulative total of income and expenses lives in an Equity >>>>>> account called “Retained Earnings”. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the pen-and-paper days a “Trial Balance” was computed outside of the >>>>>> books before closing as a way to catch errors before making the closing >>>>>> entries and writing the formal Balance Sheet. >>>>>> >>>>>> GnuCash's existing Balance Sheet Report creates the “Retained Earnings” >>>>>> line so that one need not close the books (Tools>Close Book) in order to >>>>>> get a balanced report. Removing that feature might be more formally >>>>>> correct but it would mean that users would have to close their book >>>>>> before running a balance sheet. That would be a big change and I don’t >>>>>> think that we want to do it. On the other hand “Retained Earnings” isn’t >>>>>> the right term for many cases, so it would be a useful improvement to >>>>>> make it configurable. >>>>>> >>>>>> There’s a second problem with the current report as well: If the user >>>>>> does close their books periodically they’ll have an account for the >>>>>> accumulation that may well be called “Retained Earnings”. The Balance >>>>>> Sheet Report will dutifully report the contents of that account and, if >>>>>> there are income and expenses after the last close, add a second >>>>>> “Retained Earnings” line. That looks a bit odd and might be confusing; >>>>>> ISTR we’ve had comments on the user list about just that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> John Ralls >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-devel mailing list >> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > _______________________________________________ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
