Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

Karen Lewellen Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:33:02 -0700

Is not it amazing that choices exists so that one can create heinteraction process that works best for them?May have to look into making the vo key cap lock instead. On some laptopsthere is only one combination on one side.I type very fast indeed. Personally it is frustrating being slowed downwhile I try to create just the right hand dance for vo keys and somethingelse.Imagine the beauty here is that everyone brings their individualexperience to computing, and seemingly Apple has a path allowing inclusionfor that experience, most of the time at least.Now, if I could just sit in the same room as a trainer and learn the basicsso I could use the thing laughs!



On Sun, 10 Sep 2023, Brad Snyder wrote:

If you find Interacting so annoying, you can turn it off in VoiceOver Utility, 
under the Navigation category > Grouping Behavior.
There are 4 options to choose from: Standard, Bookend Groups, Announce groups, 
and Ignore groups.
Also, you can use the Tab key to enter and exit areas that require interaction, 
without using VO + Shift + Up/Down Arrow keys.

Personally, I find using standard grouping with interacting to be a highly 
efficient method of navigating.
It allows for skipping over regions such as Toolbars, and tables when I don???t 
need to interact with these regions.
I have been using a Mac for over 10 years, and this has been one of my favorite 
features of using a Mac with VoiceOver.

- Brad -



On Sep 10, 2023, at 04:57, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Interacting is one of the most annoying things, look for some using
the vo key along with another key can be much if I have to hold the vo
key and do other stuff. I made my vo key caps lock. Because there is
no way I am using 3 keys buy using option and the command key, then
whatever other key I need to press. Also Safari seems to be fine but I
am not testing the beta. I do however prefer chrome or firefox.

On 9/9/23, Jonathan C. Cohn <jon.c.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is a toggle command for VO keys but it is not used much and its
functionality has decresed now that the rotar and quicknav keys are
available. The quicknav keys work like JAWS virtual cursor, but are only
toggled manually by pressing the left and right arrow keys at the same time.
 Personally I like using a keyboard with a numpad and turning on numpad
commander then 2, 4, 6, and 8 do the VO  commands up, left, right and down.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 9, 2023, at 7:56???AM, Tom Rash <dadnthed...@gmail.com> wrote:

???I???m still new whe it comes to the Mac.  Is this a toggle command?

On Sep 8, 2023, at 9:40 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

That must be exactly why I don???t encounter the issue. I always use VO
commands when reading text (either via keyboard or the braille display).
So far as I remember, this is what the documentation recommends.

Also, the command to move keyboard cursor to VO cursor is VO-Command-F4,
just to be sure you???re trying the right function. Moving the mouse
pointer there won???t do it.



From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
on behalf of Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net>
Date: Friday, September 8, 2023 at 09:35
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

You can avoid this issue by, after navigating to a Heading in an email
message, rather than using arrow keys, use VO navigation to navigate from
that point onward.



- Brad -


On Sep 8, 2023, at 07:50, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

???In Apple???s mail app, oftentimes in newslettters, when I jump to a
heading or link using voiceover commands and then attempt to read the
content underneath the heading with arrow keys, I find myself
frustratingly at the beginning of the newsletter again.  Even when I
route mouse to voiceover I still don???t seem to be able to read from a
particular heading onwards using arrow keys.



Andrew

On 8 Sep 2023, at 12:27, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:



I???ve successfully navigated headings, links, etc., in e-mail messages on
the Mac, suing the usual Voiceover commands. So I don???t know what is
causing your problems here.

I agree that such navigation works well under Windows, until Microsoft
Outlook crashes ??? then of course, one loses time restarting it, in some
cases, having to repair the data file corruption, which is the very
annoying aspect.

Mozilla Thunderbird under Linux performs quite well for e-mail reading.



From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 15:18
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

I agree and I use the same tactic: Windows is superior on web navigation
and even email when it comes to newsletters where you can swiftly and
reliably navigate through headings and links and activate them - a
difficult if not impossible task in Apple mail.



Andrew

On 7 Sep 2023, at 18:32, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:



I hate web Browsing on the mac. Most other things I am good with. I
use both platforms for different reasons, even having a 2023 MBP 14
with max chip. I still use my windows computers as my daily drivers. I
like my mac for vocr and logic, and a few other things. Some things
can just be slower on a mac  when it comes to page navagation and a
couple other things, I just would rather not deal with it.

On 9/7/23, Mohamed Fayed <m10fa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I???ve lately switched from 2016 15??? MBP to 2023 M2Max 16??????. The gain in
performance is tremendous and you will notice it.

For issues related to ???mail is not responding???, it occurs when you
make the
exact keystrokes, but Voiceover continues within a significantly
shorter
duration.

For web browsing, Safari nowadays is pretty bad. This is not related
to VO.
You may try Google Chrome or MS Edge instead.

Windows on Apple Silicon is significantly faster. If there is a chance
to
get to Apple Silicon device, and try it yourself, that would be great.

The issue that annoys me the most is VO stops talking. It is on Mac
and iOS.
I hope they fix it soon.

Hope that helps,

Mohamed E. Fayed

On 7 Sep 2023, at 8:01 PM, Dave Carlson <dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>
wrote:

My biggest gripe with Mac OS and VO is web browsing. It???s awful
compared
to Windows with JAWS or NNVDA. It is the main reason I would
seriously
consider going back to Windows if/when it???s time to get a new laptop.
I use DuckDuckGo as my browser now to get away from that annoying
???Safari
is Busy??? message that cripples my productivity.

So I???m on the fence about switching back to Windows, but if VO on the
Mac
does not improve over time (and I doubt that it will) I might just
flip a
coin on the decision.

Dave Carlson
Woodworker, Musician, Oregonian, Engineer, Farfar
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com

On Sep 7, 2023, at 9:23 AM, Traci Duncan <our4p...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, it seems like we are having more than a few messages on this
list
about the disappointment in Mac???s VoiceOver performance.

Are quite a few of you thinking of switching back to windows? Or are
a lot
of you overall still happy with the VoiceOver experience?

I think I am mostly curious about this, because I have been talking
about
updating my MacBook Eyre. I guess part of me is beginning to wonder,
should I get a Windows laptop instead? I would be very disappointed
to
spend $900 on a MacBook Air, and still have a lot of performance
issues.

What are your guises thoughts?

Thank you,
From Traci's MBA20.