Edit: GRID floating or at -40V and Brightness at full On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:44:39 AM UTC+2 jörg wrote:
> Hi Max, > > first of all, congrats to be that far with your project. > I think you are very close to success. > > Could you please measure your voltage between the NEG1200V and GRID. > It should be, for testing, about 0V. In Blanking mode it should be about > -40V. > > In David's schematic it is R11. > Measurement NEG1200V and GRID, so measure across R11. > > If you see a negative voltage, try to disable blanking with BLANK high. > Or, just disconnect the GRID connection from the tube and connect it with > a 20k resistor to NEG1200V. > You should see something like the picture attached. > > In my setup, I see your described behaviour, if I have GRID floating (not > connected) or constant at negative 40V. > > I mean the over-blurred image. > > [image: IMG01.jpeg] > GRID floating or at -40V > > [image: IMG02.jpg] > GRID connected to NEG1200V via 20k resistor > On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:19:24 AM UTC+2 Grahame wrote: > >> It is an odd problem. I need to think a bit more. Unfortunately I don't >> know David's software so I can't help with the draw factors... >> >> Grahame >> On 27/08/2023 20:23, Max DN wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> With the previous transformer I couldn't get a single focused dot, only a >> small flat line. Changing with anode2 voltage would move the dot left or >> right too (while all 4 deflection plates where connected to A2). Very odd. >> >> With new transformer and with the astigmatism set midway and minimal >> brightness, the focus produces an even focus across the travel range >> (expect the far ends, of course). >> >> I have connected the 4 deflection plates to the final acceleration anode, >> and the spot isn't really focused. I changed the voltage on the astigmatism >> trimmer and I got a very focused dot. When I switch back to run the full >> code, the screen is blank and I can only see the picture if I increase >> brightness, which would then lead to a dot having a ring around it, hence I >> cannot get a focused picture. >> >> I'm thinking that it may have something to do with glow delays etc. Any >> suggestions on best timings please? I'm using a 3RP1A CRT. >> >> I have played around with these parameters, with only minor improvements >> if I increase 'glowDelay' slightly (which is odd, as David uses this same >> CRT with these parameters): >> >> const int motionDelay = 15; // how fast the beam will get there before >> enabling >> const int settlingDelay = 8; // let the beam finish its move before >> turning on >> const int glowDelay = 2; // usec to wait for beam to get bright >> before moving [slightly better / brighter picture at 5] >> const int circleSpeed = 200; // angular step; bigger makes circles draw >> faster and more coarsely [slightly better picture at 150, worst/unstable at >> 100, not even focus/brightness across the range at 200] >> const int lineStride = 1; // linear step; bigger makes lines draw >> faster and more coarsely >> >> DAC update rate is about 1MHz on Teensy 3.6 >> >> >> Il giorno domenica 27 agosto 2023 alle 16:36:19 UTC+1 Grahame ha scritto: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> I should have asked, I had assumed you had modded the code. >>> >>> It is a surprise that the transformer affected only the X axis. >>> >>> With the astigmatism set midway and minimal brightness, does the focus >>> pot produce the best focus at one end, or at some point inside the travel >>> range? >>> >>> If you connect the 4 deflection plates to the final acceleration anode, >>> can you focus a really good spot? >>> >>> Grahame >>> On 27/08/2023 14:21, Max DN wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for your suggestions, Grahame. >>> >>> I just made a new transformer (a bit of a tricky one to make given the >>> many secondaries) and I no longer see a double picture. However I cannot >>> manage to get a sharp and well focused picture either, no matter how I >>> change the potentiometers. >>> >>> Nothing like the very neat picture of the scope clock that I purchased >>> from you a while back. >>> >>> I'll keep on trying. The code should be fine, it's the same that David >>> Forbes posted for the clocks he sells. I wanted to build this clock to >>> learn about CRTs in a clock and I like the compact design. >>> >>> >>> Il giorno domenica 27 agosto 2023 alle 12:46:56 UTC+1 Grahame ha scritto: >>> >>>> Hi Max >>>> >>>> To me its not a PSU problem as it is one one axis only. The deflection >>>> amplifiers are identical and swapping their X and Y inputs shows they are >>>> not the problem. >>>> >>>> It seems to me that the problem is back in the DACs or the code, that >>>> the X DAC (originally) is drawing the image in one position and then >>>> drawing it displaced slightly in another, perhaps one refresh later. >>>> >>>> If you try your scope in XY mode, then I find the images are not very >>>> good on digital scopes or at least the cheap ones I have access to :^( I >>>> have an old analogue CRT based scope for when the (cheap) digital one >>>> struggles. >>>> >>>> Grahame >>>> On 27/08/2023 12:35, Max DN wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Grahame, >>>> >>>> Those are the images that I actually see with my eyes, the camera is >>>> capturing it as I see it. >>>> >>>> Nothing changes when I rotate the tube, only the X-Y centers seem to >>>> move, which is fine and it's easily adjusted. >>>> I tried shielding the CRT, no change. No other magnetic fields that I >>>> can tell other than earth. >>>> I switched X and Y DAC output pins from the code, the issue persists >>>> (picture transposed and issue is vertical as opposed to horizontal, 3rd >>>> picture bottom right of the photo attached). >>>> >>>> I didn't occur to me that the oscilloscope has an XY-mode. I tried but >>>> cannot tell for sure if the DAC outputs are ok, perhaps I don't know how >>>> to >>>> get a crisp picture on the oscilloscope (I'll look the manual). >>>> >>>> I am using a switching power supply to feed the whole circuit and the >>>> Teensy is receiving a +5 from a rectified output of the same transformer >>>> that also provides +250VDC to a multiplier chain. If the issue was badly >>>> filtered power, I should see a very noisy picture, I'd assume. Instead of >>>> two sharp pictures almost overlapping. Somehow how don't seem to be able >>>> to >>>> balance focus vs astigmatism. >>>> Il giorno domenica 27 agosto 2023 alle 10:42:38 UTC+1 Grahame ha >>>> scritto: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> Is that image of the face - showing the image offset twice in the X >>>>> direction only - what you see with your eyes or is it a camera artefact? >>>>> >>>>> If it is real, what happens when you rotate the tube? >>>>> >>>>> It is interesting that it seems to occur in the X direction only. If >>>>> you feed the X and Y data from the DACs into a scope in XY mode do you >>>>> see >>>>> a good image or this offset one. >>>>> >>>>> Do you have any strong alternating magnetic fields near by? example >>>>> soldering iron base station... >>>>> >>>>> Grahame >>>>> On 27/08/2023 01:31, Max DN wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Ok, I'm back. Been busy with work. >>>>> >>>>> I managed to purchase a Teensy 3.6 and I have the scope clock running. >>>>> For some reason, I am not able to get a crisp picture, no matter how much >>>>> I >>>>> try to balance focus vs astigmatism vs brightness. >>>>> >>>>> Could it be that my hand-wound transformer is creating some noise? >>>>> It's quite a complex transformer (at least for me). I guess I could check >>>>> the voltages with the oscilloscope but I worry that I accidentally put >>>>> 1200V on the oscilloscope. I'm using the schematic published by David at >>>>> Cathode Corner, I built the transformer by trial and error. For the >>>>> heather >>>>> I'm using a stabilised 6.4VDC using a buck-converter, which I thought >>>>> should help, but no! >>>>> >>>>> Any suggestions on how to stability the picture? Attached a couple of >>>>> photos. >>>>> >>>>> Il giorno lunedì 10 luglio 2023 alle 16:54:15 UTC+1 gregebert ha >>>>> scritto: >>>>> >>>>>> Sounds like the CRT-related stuff is fine (congratulations, BTW), and >>>>>> you have issues with the DAC. Have you checked the linearity of the DAC >>>>>> ? >>>>>> The best way to start is to run all DAC codes, starting from 0 and >>>>>> incrementing to the top, and verify the waveform is a stair-step. I >>>>>> suggest >>>>>> leaving each value for about 10usec to allow more than enough time for >>>>>> the >>>>>> DAC and amplifiers to settle. Which DAC are you using ? My only >>>>>> experience >>>>>> is with 8-bit parallel-input DACs, and I had no problems with it (ADCs, >>>>>> on >>>>>> the other hand, are a different story....). If you see erratic behavior, >>>>>> post the findings and we can figure out next steps. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the DAC is operating correctly, then my first suspect is the >>>>>> range/offset of your DAC. You might not be able to drive it rail-to-rail >>>>>> due to the design of the level-shifters/deflection amps. In that case, >>>>>> try >>>>>> to narrow-down the range where the DAC is driving the CRT as-expected. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 3:42:21 AM UTC-7 Max Di Noi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey, Adrian, let me knew if you find that Teensy 3.6. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not having much luck with a teensy 4.1 + external DAC using SPI. >>>>>>> Nor I can see any issues at all in the code. >>>>>>> The connections are simple enough but it cannot draw a circle (as a >>>>>>> test) on my CRT using the open source code that Cathode Corner >>>>>>> published. >>>>>>> Indeed, when I test the DAC output on the oscilloscope looks irregular, >>>>>>> whereas the SPI lines seems to behave as expected. Odd. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If I input two sine waves into the deflection amplifiers using my >>>>>>> signal generator, then I can get a circle on the CRT, that proves that >>>>>>> power supply, level shifters and deflection amplifiers should be fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>>> From: Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> Date: 10/06/2023 17:17 (GMT+00:00) >>>>>>> To: neoni...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I have an unused teensy 3.6. >>>>>>> It may take some time to track it down but I'd happily swap it for a >>>>>>> 4.1 if that simplifies things for you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 5:03 PM David Forbes <nixie...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is the schematic of the SCTV rev E, which uses the Teensy 4.1. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Max Di Noi <flata...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for your prompt reply David. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have already printed my board for a Teensy 3.6. I have no issues >>>>>>>>> soldering tiny smd components assuming that I can get an LTC22632! I >>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>> design a small PCB to super-impose the Teensy 4.1 over the existing >>>>>>>>> footprint and layout. In doing so, I could add the dual DAC on this >>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>> adapter board. I can see CS is connected to pin10 but where are CLK >>>>>>>>> and SDI >>>>>>>>> of the LTC2632 connected? I don’t see them in the code. Yes, It would >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> great if you could post diagram for SCTV-E for Teensy 4.1 please. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that you are redesigning the transformer. I managed to >>>>>>>>> hand-wire mine and seems to work well. The 6.3V for the heater is the >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> that I’m not too sure how to calibrate exactly, since the SMPS… It >>>>>>>>> shines a >>>>>>>>> bit too bright at the moment and voltage drops to 2V, so that’s not >>>>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>>>> for the heater filament. I can remove a few turns but not sure what >>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>> ‘exact’ RMS V I’m looking for given the spikes of the SMPS at 100Khz, >>>>>>>>> I’ll >>>>>>>>> continue to experiment on that using a 6.2V 500mA lightbulb to avoid >>>>>>>>> damaging the CRT. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks again for updating the schematic when you get a chance, >>>>>>>>> it’ll save me so much time to experiment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10 Jun 2023, at 16:41, David Forbes <nixie...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi. The SCTV with the Teensy 4.0 uses an LTC2632 dual DAC. This >>>>>>>>> uses SPI to load the X and Y values. It's about half the update rate >>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>> built-in DACs in the previous Teensy 3.6, so I had to change the step >>>>>>>>> size >>>>>>>>> in the drawing routines. >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately this chip is tiny, so it's hard to solder. >>>>>>>>> I am in the process of redesigning the transformer and circuit >>>>>>>>> board to be more friendly for kit and DIY use. I want to make the PC >>>>>>>>> board >>>>>>>>> with through hole parts, since people enjoy soldering those together. >>>>>>>>> I will see if I can post the latest SCTV schematic diagram to my >>>>>>>>> website today. I've been traveling a lot lately. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 6:33 AM Max DN <flata...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> True, but the schematic is SCTV rev. C which is for Teensy 3.6. >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have the schematic for using Teensy 4.1? Just designed a >>>>>>>>>> clock >>>>>>>>>> based on SCTV-rev and custom transformer but of course I have now >>>>>>>>>> realised >>>>>>>>>> that Teensy 3.6 is impossible to get... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Il giorno sabato 11 marzo 2023 alle 18:41:05 UTC SD ha scritto: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David Forbes has the schematic on his website, and the firmware >>>>>>>>>>> on Github. I did not see that Jörg was making kits, in fact he >>>>>>>>>>> said he >>>>>>>>>>> didn't want to make kits, but perhaps make a PCB available, so I do >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> know why people are asking for kits. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:42:49 PM UTC-5 liam bartosiewicz >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The schematic and software would be good enough for me, >>>>>>>>>>>> personally >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 10, 2023, at 10:15 AM, Darrin Weiss <hip...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I also have some interest in a kit >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 10:00:11 AM UTC-5 Richard Arndt >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep... put me down too for a Scope Clock kit of parts :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Making the H/W & S/W open source would be cool too! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think selling PCB's & parts in kit form without enclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>> places FCC requirements on the user to not cause RF interference. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't that how SparkFun and Adafruit can sell assembled PCBs >>>>>>>>>>>>> without FCC certification? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 9:19:56 AM UTC-5 Paul Andrews >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you plan on publishing the software (on GitHub for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> example)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2023, at 5:36 PM, jörg <pos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tube is a RFT B7 S4-01 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It‘s from an EO174A Oscilloscope. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nice green and pretty good to focus and linearity to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tube and first version of PCB could be viewed at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTyXJE2faXw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzTyXJE2faXw&data=05%7C01%7Cjoerg.postert%40otto.de%7C934c425d99ee4b01af7008db202467fd%7C8794e153c3bd44798bea61aeaf167d5a%7C0%7C0%7C638139112953496744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7yQJJjU6SCFcfQu%2BVxKoA8R9%2B%2FrsA1AVJOuO76nxNq8%3D&reserved=0> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not plan a kit or selling like david forbes do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all, it is initially his design and software. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, I do not have the will and time to go through all the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> EU/Germany has for selling such electronics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could share the PCB if I order the next batch, but it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not finished, yet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I plan to add ESP32 for NTP and web config. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:02:28 PM UTC+1 Nicholas Stock >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Definitely not off-topic! I think everyone on this forum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciates that post, well done. I really like the starfield >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect. What >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tube were you using? Looks like it has very good linearity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> across the whole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 11:55 PM Wo Tu <wtu...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really interesting and great work. Looks really good and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its a „want to have“. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would be interested in pcb and code too , if possible a kit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michail Wilson schrieb am Samstag, 4. März 2023 um 15:11:01 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC+1: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am very interested as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would love to have the code and pcb design and even a kit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I read through the posts, but didn’t see anything other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the video. Thumbs up on it too. 😊 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michail Wilson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 206-920-6312 <(206)%20920-6312> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neoni...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *jörg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2023 7:14 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Jon, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes, I will share the code. I have moved it to the VS Code >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IDE with PlatformIO. I do not like the Arduino IDE much. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should run on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> david's hardware, too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do yo you have build the hardware already? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit SPI DAC in my latest version. I had to reduce the DAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rate by half. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks just as good as the old version. Of course, the DAC I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chise is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already unobtanium. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg <pos...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, maybe a bit offtopic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scope clock based on david forbes one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a while. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal DAC's, I was curious to get the stuff up and running >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the faster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teensy 4.x CPU. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> channels DAC. The usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not get DMA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up and running on teensy4.x. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, this works and I like it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/a2701743-2b9b-4543-a0c0-32b8b90da85an%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/a2701743-2b9b-4543-a0c0-32b8b90da85an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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