RE: Scope of the House of Justice
Hi Susan, you write: I'm still not persuaded that the Guardian is making a point about any 'uniqueness' to the divine guidance of the House of Justice in this passage. It seems to me he is describing the same process that all our elected insitutions are expected to follow. Mind you, I do think that the divine guidance of the House of Justice is guaranteed in ways it may not be for our local or national bodies... You may be right. I recall Mr. Nakhjavani stating his view that the nature of the guidance flowing to the House was the same as to the Local and National Assemblies; but that it was guaranteed, as you mention. But to me, there is no comparison anywhere in the Writings about the guidance flowing to Local and National Assemblies/ Houses of Justice, to the passage on page 11 of the Will where the Master states that the Bab and Baha'u'llah guide the Universal House of Justice: The sacred and youthful branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abha Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of the Exalted One (may my life be offered up for them both). The Guardian refers to that passage in these words: The Guardian's infallibility covers interpretation of the Revealed Word and its application. Likewise any instructions he may issue having to do with the protection of the Faith, or its well being must be closely obeyed, as he is infallible in the protection of the Faith. He is assured the guidance of both Baha'u'llah and the Bab, as the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha clearly reveals. (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, August 20, 1956; Lights of Guidance, 2nd edition, p. 313, #1055) (I feel justified in saying that the Guardian was referring to that passage of the Will, because it is the only verse in the Will I see where the guidance of Baha'u'llah and the Bab is referred to.) The Guardian is in this passage, it seems to me, giving pre-eminence to the guidance flowing to him. His guidance is mentioned in the same passage referring to the guidance flowing to the Universal House of Justice -- in my view, the central statement in the Master's Will, His Covenant, the part that expresses God's part of that Covenant. (The next sentences on page 11 of the Will describe our part -- turning to the House and the Guardian.) But as you say, you feel that the difference is that this guidance is guaranteed, and that is also explicit in that passage from the Guardian, He is assured the guidance of both Baha'u'llah and the Bab. This passage in the Will referring to both Manifestations, is also, it seems to me, an elucidation of the passage from Baha'u'llah I quoted earlier in this thread, where He says that God will guide the membership of the Universal House of Justice. That is, the Will states that this means both Manifestations; and this seems quite important to Shoghi Effendi to state. It is, perhaps, also reflected in this statement of the Guardian about the two Manifestations presiding over the destinies of the Faith: Allied, though subordinate in rank, and invested with the authority of presiding with Him over the destinies of this supreme Dispensation, there shines upon this mental picture the youthful glory of the Bb... (The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 97) I find it interesting that the Guardian clarifies the guidance flowing to him and the House of Justice as coming from both Manifestations, and emphasizes the point. As far as comparable Writings so clearly specifying the source of the guidance animating, say, the local spiritual assemblies, I haven't found one. Though there is that beautiful passage from the Master: These Spiritual Assemblies, is 'Abdu'l-Bah's testimony, in a Tablet addressed to an American believer, are aided by the Spirit of God. Their defender is 'Abdu'l-Bah. Over them He spreadeth His Wings. What bounty is there greater than this? (Quoted in God Passes By, p. 332) A lovely image, the same one used by Christ: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! (Luke 13:34) Much love Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public -
RE: Scope of the House of Justice
But to me, there is no comparison anywhere in the Writings about the guidance flowing to Local and National Assemblies/ Houses of Justice, to the passage on page 11 of the Will where the Master states that the Bab and Baha'u'llah guide the Universal House of Justice: Dear Brent, Yes, that passage from the Will and Testament makes for a much better argument, I think. ;-}There is also this one from Lawh-i-Bayt-ul-Adl-Azam va sl-i-Qad: Let it not be imagined that the House of Justice will take any decision according to its own concepts and opinions. God forbid! The Supreme House of Justice will take decisions and establish laws through the inspiration and confirmation of the Holy Spirit, because it is in the safekeeping and under the shelter and protection of the Ancient Beauty, and obedience to its decisions is a bounden and essential duty and an absolute obligation, and there is no escape for anyone. Say, O People: Verily the Supreme House of Justice is under the wings of your Lord, the Compassionate, the All-Merciful, that is under His protection, His care, and His shelter; for He has commanded the firm believers to obey that blessed, sanctified, and all-subduing body There, of course, only Baha'u'llah and not the Bab is mentioned. But as before the infallibility in no way comes from the Guardian. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Scope of the House of Justice -VERY LONG
I'm in complete agreement with Brent's understanding and I feel that is supported by numerous references from Baha'u'llah's Writings where the *Trustees* are a direct reference the the [Universal] House of Justice. Dear Sandra, Some of those passage you cite would refer only to the Universal House of Justice and some to Houses of Justice in general. I don't think that the term 'trustee' is any hint as to which He is referring to. All members of any elected institution are 'Trustees of the Merciful.' warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice -VERY LONG
Susan: Some of those passage you cite would refer only to the Universal House of Justice and some to Houses of Justice in general. I don't think that the term 'trustee' is any hint as to which He is referring to. All members of any elected institution are 'Trustees of the Merciful.' Dear Susan, Perhaps the quote below is one you are thinking of: 5. The Lord hath ordained that in every city a House of Justice be established wherein shall gather counsellors to the number of Baha, and should it exceed this number it does not matter... It behoveth them to be the trusted ones of the Merciful among men and to regard themselves as the guardians appointed of God for all that dwell on earth. It is incumbent upon them to take counsel together and to have regard for the interests of the servants of God, for His sake, even as they regard their own interests, and to choose that which is meet and seemly. Thus hath the Lord your God, the Gracious, the Pardoner, commanded you. Beware lest ye put away that which is clearly revealed in His Tablet. Fear God, O ye that perceive. (Baha'u'llah, Synopsis and Codification of the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 13) and this one also: To repudiate the validity of the assemblies of the elected ministers of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh would be to reject those countless Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá wherein They have extolled the station of the trustees of the Merciful, enumerated their privileges and duties, emphasized the glory of their mission, revealed the immensity of their task, and warned them of the attacks they must needs expect from the unwisdom of their friends as well as from the malice of their enemies. It is surely for those to whose hands so priceless a heritage has been committed to prayerfully watch lest the tool should supersede the Faith itself, lest undue concern for the minute details arising from the administration of the Cause obscure the vision of its promoters, lest partiality, ambition, and worldliness tend in the course of time to becloud the radiance, stain the purity, and impair the effectiveness of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 9) Now, if I were not aware of the Guardian's persnickety precision in his English translations, I might agree that all the previous post references referred to any Baha'i House of Justice. However, I have no doubt that the Guardian understood the capitalization of proper nouns. Having said that; I did notice that there were two quotes from the Guardian, which I included before, where the word *trustees* was not capitalized. I will also concede that there is a margin of error involved from written work to printed text... But, taking that into consideration does not outweigh my gut feeling. In closing, I took a swim OCEAN and found no other references besides the two quoted here that literally ties the phrase trustees of the Merciful to Local Houses of Justice. I view 'Trustees of the Merciful' [as written] to be a specific title or phrase that constitutes the distinctive designation of this particular legislative body. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice -VERY LONG
In a message dated 1/29/2005 6:55:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Now, if I were not aware of the Guardian's persnickety precision in his English translations, I might agree that all the previous post references referred to any Baha'i House of Justice. However, I have no doubt that the Guardian understood the capitalization of proper nouns." Dear Sandra, Is that what your argument is based on, capitalization? Because as far as I know there is not any convention whereby Baha'is are supposed to use upper case letters to refer to the Universal House of Justice and lower case when referring to other institutions. The only difference between those passages using caps or not using caps as far as I can tell is that the former are translated by the Guardian and the latter arelater translations. The one exception I see is that passage from the Iqan and I don't think that is referring to the members of the House of Justice at all. That strikes me rather as a reference to the Manifestation and the authorized interpreters. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
