Re: question about Islam
Don, I've heard something like that before in previous discussions with Bahais. I just think I have a philosophical disagreement with the idea of progressive revelation. I think that genuine moral principles shouldn't change with time. And in terms of the issue of slavery, if I remember correctly, one of the Bahai texts prohibiting slavery explains that slavery is wrong because it is a violation of human nature or human dignity. If that's the case, then it has always been true, and slavery has always been wrong. But the problem with that position would be that slavery would be wrong even when it was condoned by previous prophets. -G On 5/8/06, Don Calkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 9:32 PM -0400 5/7/06, Gilberto Simpson wrote: Except the Bab and Bahaullah both owned slaves. If I remember correctly, there is a statement by Abdu'l-Baha that Baha'u'llah released all slaves when he became head of the family, and that most promptly left. Don C -- -.-.-.-.- He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- There are no poets __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: On 5/5/06, Tim Nolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Janine, He feels that the Bahai faith is just a reiteration of Islam, nothing new. I don't like absolute claims and so I probably wouldn't say that there is *nothing* new. But the Bahai faith and the Babi faiths definitely had antecedents within Islam. (most immediately, there was the Shaykhi movement for instance) The Bahai faith didn't spring out of a vacuum. It's true that the Baha'i Faith did not spring out of a vaccum. Neither did Islam nor any other religion for that matter. Religion, or the Revelation of God, is a continuum. Baha'u'llah forbids religious warfare, Muhammad did not forbid this. The Bahai writings allow for something called righteous warfare and I've never heard a convincing explanation for how it is significantly different from other just war theories in a moral sense. -G Warfare conducted in the name of religion and/or conducted to covert others into your religion is prohibited in the Baha'i Faith. Righteous warfare or just war is a totally different issue. Neither the motivation nor the purpose is religious. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: cannot practice bigamy, have a clear cut prohibition against slavery, Except the Bab and Bahaullah both owned slaves. -G The Bab and Baha'u'llah had slaves because They bought them under Islamic Dispensation shari`ah law before the onset of the Baha'i Dispensation when slavery was not forbidden by Islam. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
I don't like absolute claims and so I probably wouldn't say that there
is *nothing* new. But the Bahai faith and the Babi faiths definitely
had antecedents within Islam. (most immediately, there was the Shaykhi
movement for instance) The Bahai faith didn't spring out of a vacuum.
It's true that the Baha'i Faith did not spring out of a vaccum. Neither
did Islam nor any other religion for that matter. Religion, or the
Revelation of God, is a continuum.
I don't have a problem with you saying that. But I didn't go onto a
Muslim e-mail list trying to disprove someone who said that Islam has
nothing new. In fact, I think I've pointed out here before that the
Quran itself says:
[41.43] Naught is said to you {Muhammad} but what was said indeed to
the apostles before you.
But that doesn't seem like progressive revelation where the prophets
actually *do* bring new things from time to time.
Baha'u'llah forbids religious warfare, Muhammad
did not forbid this.
Gilberto:
The Bahai writings allow for something called righteous warfare and
I've never heard a convincing explanation for how it is significantly
different from other just war theories in a moral sense.
Warfare conducted in the name of religion and/or conducted to covert
others into your religion is prohibited in the Baha'i Faith.
And the Quran says that there is no compulsion in matters of
religion. Jihad, properly understood, is not about converting other
people at the edge of the sword. It is about protecting people from
harm.
-Gilberto
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Morals: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior
The second
part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which
comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition
of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence,
theft and injuries -- this part of the Law of God, which refers to material
things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the
necessities of the times.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 47)
Among the most
contentious of such issues in understanding society's evolution towards
spiritual maturity has been that of crime and punishment. While different in
detail and degree, the penalties prescribed by most sacred texts for acts of
violence against either the commonweal or the rights of other individuals tended
to be harsh. Moreover, they frequently extended to permitting retaliation
against the offenders by the injured parties or by members of their families. In
the perspective of history, however, one may reasonably ask what practical
alternatives existed. In the absence not merely of present-day programmes of
behavioural modification, but even of recourse to such coercive options as
prisons and policing agencies, religion's concern was to impress indelibly on
general consciousness the moral unacceptability-and practical costs-of conduct
whose effect would otherwise have been to demoralize efforts at social progress.
The whole of civilization has since been the beneficiary, and it would be less
than honest not to acknowledge the fact.
So it has been
throughout all of the religious dispensations whose origins have survived in
written records. Mendicancy, slavery, autocracy, conquest, ethnic prejudices and
other undesirable features of social interaction have gone unchallenged-or been
explicitly indulged-as religion sought to achieve reformations of behaviour that
were considered more immediately essential at given stages in the advance of
civilization. To condemn religion because any one of its successive
dispensations failed to address the whole range of social wrongs would be to
ignore everything that has been learned about the nature of human development.
Inevitably, anachronistic thinking of this kind must also create severe
psychological handicaps in appreciating and facing the requirements of one's own
time.
The issue is
not the past, but the implications for the present. Problems arise where
followers of one of the world's faiths prove unable to distinguish between its
eternal and transitory features, and attempt to impose on society rules of
behaviour that have long since accomplished their purpose. The principle is
fundamental to an understanding of religion's social role: "The remedy the world
needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a
subsequent age may require", Bah'u'llh points out. "Be anxiously concerned
with the needs of the age ye live in, and centre your deliberations on its
exigencies and requirements."
(Commissioned by The Universal House of Justice, One Common Faith p.
29)
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Servants in the Households of Bahá'u'lláh and the Bab
MEMORANDUM From: Research DepartmentTo: The Universal House of Justice 2 February 2000 Servants in the Households of Bah'u'llh and the Bab The Research Department as considered the questions raised by Mr. Peter Terry, in his email message of 2 December 1999. Mr. Terry states that on some Internet discussion groups there is a discussion on the personal status of Mubarak, Isfandiyar and other Ethiopian servants in the households of the Bb and Bah'u'llh (and other believers). Mr. Terry...states that "it has been alleged that the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice deliberately" concealed information on the status of the servants. Mr. Terry requests that he be sent information relevant to the above, or that a statement be prepared by the Research Department "in response to these allegations". We reply as follows. By way of introduction, we note that, as Mr. Terry is no doubt aware, the Bah' Faith is the first religion to explicitly ban slavery in its Sacred Scripture. Bah'u'llh prohibited this practice in clear and unambiguous language. In the Kitb-i-Aqdas (paragraph 72), it is stated: It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God's servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. He, verily, is the All-Wise, Whose wisdom encompasseth all things. Returning to Mr. Terry's questions regarding the lives of servants of African descent in the households of Bah'u'llh and the Bb, we note that very little is known on the subject, and the information available is highly fragmentary and anecdotal in nature. Currently, the only work on this subject is Abu'l-Qasim Afnan's Black Pearls: Servants in the Households of the Bb and Bah'u'llh (Los Angeles: Kalimat Press, 1988). In addition, we have found references to servants of the Holy Family in the following works: The Promulgation of Universal Peace: Talks Delivered by 'Abdu'l-Bah during His Visit to the United States and Canada in 1912 (Wilmette: Bah' Publishing Trust, 1995). On pages 426-427, 'Abdu'l-Bah recounts the services of Isfandiyar, and praises his character and his loyalty to the Holy Family. The Dawn-Breakers: Nabil's Narrative of the Early Days of the Bah' Revelation (Wilmette: Bah' Publishing Trust, 1996). Several references to Mubarak are found in this work, including his role in the first days of the Declaration of the Bb and his services to the Bb during His pilgrimage to Mecca. See pages 53-54, 62, 66, 68, 96, 129, 132-133 and 148. An article entitled "The Sterling Faithfulness of Esfandayar [sic], Story told by 'Abdu'l-Bah: From the Diary of Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, October 25, 1913" appears in Star of the West, volume 9 (April 28, 1918), number 3 (pages 38-39), and recounts the services of Isfandiyar to the Holy Family, his character and the love of 'Abdu'l-Bah for him. The Chosen Highway (Wilmette: Bah' Publishing Trust, 1967) contains recollections of the Greatest Holy Leaf concerning the loyalty to the Holy Family of Isfandiyar and a woman of African descent (pages 41 and 43). Mahmud's Diary: The Diary of Mirza Mahmud-i-Zarqani Chronicling 'Abdu'l-Bah's Journey to America (Oxford: George Ronald, 1998) contains two remarks of 'Abdu'l-Bah praising Isfandiyar (pages 367, 384). A Gift of Love Offered to the Greatest Holy Leaf (Gloria Faizi, 1982), by Hand of the Cause Abu'l-Qasim Faizi, includes a brief summary of the character of Isfandiyar and his services to the Holy Family (pages 14-16). Specifically, with respect to the "personal status" of the servants of the families of Bah'u'llh and the Bb, we note below, for the benefit of Mr. Terry, a few observations from a perusal of the sources mentioned above: All the above accounts testify to the love and affection that existed between the families of Bah'u'llh and the Bb, on the one hand, and the servants in their households, and to the consideration shown to the servants. The relationship seems to transcend those ordinarily encountered in master-servant interactions. The reference to the legal status of the servants in the household of the Bb is in Black Pearls, where Abu'l-Qasim Afnan states that Mubarak and a female servant named Fiddih were acquired by the Bb (pages 4-5, 21). Afnan further states that "the bill of purchase" for Mubarak "still exists among the Bb's business accounts." We note that this document is not held in the Archives at the Bah' World Centre, and this matter will no doubt be researched further in the future. We have found no indication that any of the servants in the household of Bah'u'llh were slaves. The only information we have found on this subject is the following extract from a talk of
Re: question about Islam
The value of human freedom and autonomy didn't magically change in 1844 (or whatever year Bahais say this particular rule changed). If slavery is definitely and clearly wrong now in any meaningful sense, then it was also wrong when Muhammad permitted it (audhibillah). And if slavery was actually okay back then, then it is possible to justify some form of it even today. What rubs me the wrong way is a kind of Simon Says approach to morality where there are no underlying principles besides whatever the manifestation says goes. Even before the Bab and Bahaullah, people in the West were questioning the morality of slavery. And even in the prophet's time there were certain standards and principles to encourage good treatment and to encourage the emancipation of slaves. -Gilberto On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 7 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: cannot practice bigamy, have a clear cut prohibition against slavery, Except the Bab and Bahaullah both owned slaves. -G The Bab and Baha'u'llah had slaves because They bought them under Islamic Dispensation shari`ah law before the onset of the Baha'i Dispensation when slavery was not forbidden by Islam. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- There are no poets __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On 5/8/06, Richard H. Gravelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: question about Islam Gilberto wrote: . I think that genuine moral principles shouldn't change with time. Richard: Wouldn't you agree Gilberto, that all that is good comes from God? If then, genuine moral principles are good, they issued from God. Has he not said that He abrogates what He pleases? Gilberto: Does that mean that anything goes? Would it be possible for one year that stealing and raping and murdering are wrong and the next year, they become virtuous acts? Why or why not? Peace Gilberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
This is an old question and Muslim theologians have debated it for centuries and non-Musllim philosophers have also debated it for millenia; my understanding is that what is or is not a commendable or a condemnable action is dependent upon the Will of God at any particular time/place. So, at some point in time, owning slaves or having multiple wives was not condemnable. Now, they are. Things didn't magically change in 1844, nor in 610, nor in year 30. Think continuum. Iskandar On Mon, 8 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: The value of human freedom and autonomy didn't magically change in 1844 (or whatever year Bahais say this particular rule changed). If slavery is definitely and clearly wrong now in any meaningful sense, then it was also wrong when Muhammad permitted it (audhibillah). And if slavery was actually okay back then, then it is possible to justify some form of it even today. What rubs me the wrong way is a kind of Simon Says approach to morality where there are no underlying principles besides whatever the manifestation says goes. Even before the Bab and Bahaullah, people in the West were questioning the morality of slavery. And even in the prophet's time there were certain standards and principles to encourage good treatment and to encourage the emancipation of slaves. -Gilberto On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 7 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: cannot practice bigamy, have a clear cut prohibition against slavery, Except the Bab and Bahaullah both owned slaves. -G The Bab and Baha'u'llah had slaves because They bought them under Islamic Dispensation shari`ah law before the onset of the Baha'i Dispensation when slavery was not forbidden by Islam. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On Mon, 8 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 7 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: Baha'u'llah forbids religious warfare, Muhammad did not forbid this. Gilberto: The Bahai writings allow for something called righteous warfare and I've never heard a convincing explanation for how it is significantly different from other just war theories in a moral sense. Warfare conducted in the name of religion and/or conducted to covert others into your religion is prohibited in the Baha'i Faith. And the Quran says that there is no compulsion in matters of religion. Jihad, properly understood, is not about converting other people at the edge of the sword. It is about protecting people from harm. -Gilberto Oh, I very much like your interpretation, Gilberto. I wish that all Muslim leaders, thinkers, rulers, jurists, theologians, etc. of the past 14 centuries and now had adopted your interpreation or something very much like it. We would have had a much much better world than what we now have. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 8 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I: Warfare conducted in the name of religion and/or conducted to covert others into your religion is prohibited in the Baha'i Faith. G: And the Quran says that there is no compulsion in matters of religion. Jihad, properly understood, is not about converting other people at the edge of the sword. It is about protecting people from harm. I: Oh, I very much like your interpretation, Gilberto. I wish that all Muslim leaders, thinkers, rulers, jurists, theologians, etc. of the past 14 centuries and now had adopted your interpreation or something very much like it. G: It's not just my interpretation. And I don't need backhanded praise. -G The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: question about Islam
On 5/8/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Things didn't magically change in 1844, nor in 610, nor in year 30. Think continuum. I do think in terms of continuum. That's why I don't think that a new Manifestation who will change things around is all that necessary. While remaining faithful to Islam, the rulings of scholars will take new realities into account. So, for example, without banning polygamy, there are certainly Muslims who are cautious about it and aren't encouraging it. -Gilberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
