at-Taqwa (Godconciousness)

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawm

Sawm and Taqwa are associated. Is there a Baha'i reference to Taqwa?


  
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Re: at-Taqwa (Godconciousness)

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
. Is there a Baha'i reference to Taqwa?


Sure, but usually taqwa is translated as piety. If someone hasn't
posted any of the references by the time I get back online I try and
find you some. Right now my computer is working to slowly to conduct a
search.

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Center for the Study of Text

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I heard that this was originally going to be a house for future Guardians, but 
became this after Shoghi Effendi's death.


  
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Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance it 
out. Is this possible? 



  
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Shamim Bina
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
What is this site all about? Is this a Covenant-breaker site?

Sincerely,
Shamim

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv


 It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal
 House of Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females)
 to balance it out. Is this possible?


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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Tim Nolan
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
That fiveelders link doesn't work for me.  Who are they, and what is
their relation to the Baha'i covenant?    I never heard of this
Universal Senate of Justice.   Can you give sources from the
writings of Baha'u'llah or Abdu'l Baha or Shoghi Effendi?
 Tim 


All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert 





From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:53:15 PM
Subject: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance it 
out. Is this possible? 



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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
They're more like Baha'i reformers. 

They aren't covenant breakers in that:

They believe Baha'u'llah was the successor of the Bab and not Subh-i-Azal.
They believe Abdu'l-Baha was the succesor of Baha'u'llah and not Mirza Muhammad 
Ali.
They believe the Will  Testament of Abdu'l-Baha to be authoritative and valid 
ie unlike Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, Ruth White, Frederick Glaysher, etc.
They believe Shoghi Effendi had no succesor to the Gaurdianship, ie Charles 
Mason Remey was rightfully expelled as a false claimant.
They believe that Baha'u'llah will be succeeded by a future Manifestation of 
God, but not for atleast 1000 years - 50 years have passed ie unlike 
Jamshid 
Mani and John Carre.

Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.




From: Shamim Bina shamimb...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies ListservWhat is this site all about? Is this a 
Covenant-breaker site? 


Sincerely,
Shamim 


On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

The Baha'i Studies Listserv

It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance 
it 
out. Is this possible? 



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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Tim Nolan
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I went to the site through Google.  I only looked at the first page.
It definitely looks like a covenant breaker website.  On the
first page it says  copyright The International Institution of the Guardianship.

So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker websites?
What game are you playing?
 Tim 


All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert 





From: Shamim Bina shamimb...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies ListservWhat is this site all about? Is this a 
Covenant-breaker site? 


Sincerely,
Shamim 


On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

The Baha'i Studies Listserv

It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance 
it 
out. Is this possible? 



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Dedicate the precious days of your lives to the betterment of the world. ~ 
Bahá’u’lláh


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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
http://www.fiveelders.com/

Sorry, It was a typo on my part. Also, it has English and Persian languge 
options. 


They have several article, but The Final Episode is the discussion, but the 
previous articles like Divine Philosophy provide go lead up.





From: Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:35:59 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

That fiveelders link doesn't work for me.  Who are they, and what is
their relation to the Baha'i covenant?    I never heard of this
Universal Senate of Justice.   Can you give sources from the
writings of Baha'u'llah or Abdu'l Baha or Shoghi Effendi?
 Tim 


All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert 





From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:53:15 PM
Subject: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance it 
out. Is this possible? 



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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Tim Nolan
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
They aren't covenant breakers in that:
 
What, specifically, is their relation to the Universal House of Justice?
Do they accept its authority without reservation?  Are they submissive and
obedient to it?  What is this so-called  International Institution of the 
Guardianship
shown in the copyright statement on their home page?
This website smells bad, and there's no way I'm going into it past the
first page.  

Putting up a website and advocating reforms sounds a lot like mounting a 
campaign
within the Baha'i community, which Baha'is are not supposed to do.

It's fine to suggest something to the House of Justice, but in my view it's not
acceptable to have a website setting forth proposed reforms.
That is equivalent to trying to organize the Baha'i community to put
pressure on the Universal House of Justice to make decisions these 
so-called reformers want.  That's not how things should be done.
Tim 


All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert 





From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:38:34 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

They're more like Baha'i reformers. 

They aren't covenant breakers in that:

They believe Baha'u'llah was the successor of the Bab and not Subh-i-Azal.
They believe Abdu'l-Baha was the succesor of Baha'u'llah and not Mirza Muhammad 
Ali.
They believe the Will  Testament of Abdu'l-Baha to be authoritative and valid 
ie unlike Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, Ruth White, Frederick Glaysher, etc.
They believe Shoghi Effendi had no succesor to the Gaurdianship, ie Charles 
Mason Remey was rightfully expelled as a false claimant.
They believe that Baha'u'llah will be succeeded by a future Manifestation of 
God, but not for atleast 1000 years - 50 years have passed ie unlike 
Jamshid 
Mani and John Carre.

Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.




From: Shamim Bina shamimb...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies ListservWhat is this site all about? Is this a 
Covenant-breaker site? 


Sincerely,
Shamim 


On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

The Baha'i Studies Listserv

It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance 
it 
out. Is this possible? 



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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
They're more like Baha'i reformers. 

They aren't covenant breakers in that:

They believe Baha'u'llah was the successor of the Bab and not Subh-i-Azal.
They believe Abdu'l-Baha was the succesor of Baha'u'llah and not Mirza Muhammad 
Ali.
They believe the Will  Testament of Abdu'l-Baha to be authoritative and valid 
ie unlike Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, Ruth White, Frederick Glaysher, etc.
They believe Shoghi Effendi had no succesor to the Gaurdianship, ie Charles 
Mason Remey was rightfully expelled as a false claimant.
They believe that Baha'u'llah will be succeeded by a future Manifestation of 
God, but not for atleast 1000 years - 50 years have passed ie unlike 
Jamshid 
Mani and John Carre.

Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.

Also, according to Wikipedia's deinition they're not covenant breakers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant-breaker

Has the Universal House of Justice ever made a pronouncement on them?

Known covenant breakers:
Mirza Yahya aka Subh-i-Azal
Miraza Muhammad Ali
Charles Mason Remey
Ruth White
Mirza Ahmad Sohrab
Avarih
Niku

Also, who are Avarih and Niku?





From: Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:40:56 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

I went to the site through Google.  I only looked at the first page.
It definitely looks like a covenant breaker website.  On the
first page it says  copyright The International Institution of the Guardianship.

So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker websites?
What game are you playing?
 Tim 


All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert 





From: Shamim Bina shamimb...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies ListservWhat is this site all about? Is this a 
Covenant-breaker site? 


Sincerely,
Shamim 


On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

The Baha'i Studies Listserv

It's a Five Elders http://www.fiveelders.org/ idea that the Universal House of 
Justice (9 males) needs a Universal Senate of Justice (9 females) to balance 
it 
out. Is this possible? 



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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.

Dear Steve,

If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
URLs  on the internet.

warmest, Susan

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
What is the job of an AB member?





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:00:54 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.

Dear Steve,

If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
URLs  on the internet.

warmest, Susan

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Also, who are Avarih and Niku?

Avarih was a prominent Baha'i who left the Faith during the time of
the Guardian and eventually wrote books against the Faith. Niku was
his friend who eventually did the same thing.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I'm suggesting that you contact your Auxiliary Board Member for
Protection. As the name suggests they are there to handle protection
issues.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What is the job of an AB member?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:00:54 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.

 Dear Steve,

 If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
 might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
 of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
 URLs  on the internet.

 warmest, Susan

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Re: Center for the Study of Text

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I believe it is the ITC not the Center of the Study of the Sacred Text
which is located where the Institution of the Guardianship would have
been.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 I heard that this was originally going to be a house for future Guardians,
 but became this after Shoghi Effendi's death.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
What faith or faiths were they? Babi/Bayani/Azali? Muslim? Christian? Daheshi?





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Also, who are Avarih and Niku?

Avarih was a prominent Baha'i who left the Faith during the time of
the Guardian and eventually wrote books against the Faith. Niku was
his friend who eventually did the same thing.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Shamim Bina
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I absolutely agree 100% with Susan and Tim! Steven, check with
your Auxiliary Board member and LSA before you go to this kinds of sites.
These sites are very dangerous and could potentiality do you a lot of
spiritual harm. That is my suggestion friends. Proceed with extreme
vigilance and caution while on the internet. the world is a very dangerous
jungle sometimes and you have to very choose carefully.

Warm Regards,
Shamim

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
  Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken
 up.

 Dear Steve,

 If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
 might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
 of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
 URLs  on the internet.

 warmest, Susan

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How many members are there? How does one know who's one member is? Also how can 
one tell from the name as Auxiliary can mean anything?





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:17:07 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I'm suggesting that you contact your Auxiliary Board Member for
Protection. As the name suggests they are there to handle protection
issues.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What is the job of an AB member?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:00:54 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken up.

 Dear Steve,

 If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
 might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
 of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
 URLs  on the internet.

 warmest, Susan

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
By Faith I mean the Baha'i Faith.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What faith or faiths were they? Babi/Bayani/Azali? Muslim? Christian?
 Daheshi?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:11:53 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Also, who are Avarih and Niku?

 Avarih was a prominent Baha'i who left the Faith during the time of
 the Guardian and eventually wrote books against the Faith. Niku was
 his friend who eventually did the same thing.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Yes, they were apostates, but what faith did they convert to?





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
By Faith I mean the Baha'i Faith.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What faith or faiths were they? Babi/Bayani/Azali? Muslim? Christian?
 Daheshi?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:11:53 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Also, who are Avarih and Niku?

 Avarih was a prominent Baha'i who left the Faith during the time of
 the Guardian and eventually wrote books against the Faith. Niku was
 his friend who eventually did the same thing.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Adib Masumian
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
To the best of my knowledge they either distanced themselves from religion or 
passed themselves off as Muslims.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 26, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 
 Yes, they were apostates, but what faith did they convert to?
 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:21:58 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship
 
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 By Faith I mean the Baha'i Faith.
 
 On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
  The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 
  What faith or faiths were they? Babi/Bayani/Azali? Muslim? Christian?
  Daheshi?
 
  
  From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
  To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
  Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:11:53 PM
  Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship
 
  The Baha'i Studies Listserv
  Also, who are Avarih and Niku?
 
  Avarih was a prominent Baha'i who left the Faith during the time of
  the Guardian and eventually wrote books against the Faith. Niku was
  his friend who eventually did the same thing.
 
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Adib Masumian
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Not to nitpick but Sohrab actually had no discrepancy with the legitimacy of 
Ahmad Sohrab. He just didn't like Shoghi Effendi.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

 They believe the Will  Testament of Abdu'l-Baha to be authoritative and 
 valid ie unlike Mirza Ahmad Sohrab
 

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Where do you live Steve, in Indiana?

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 How many members are there? How does one know who's one member is? Also how
 can one tell from the name as Auxiliary can mean anything?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:17:07 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 I'm suggesting that you contact your Auxiliary Board Member for
 Protection. As the name suggests they are there to handle protection
 issues.

 On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What is the job of an AB member?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:00:54 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken
 up.

 Dear Steve,

 If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
 might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
 of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
 URLs  on the internet.

 warmest, Susan

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Adib Masumian
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Sorry that should say discrepancy with Abdu'l-Bahá's Will and Testament.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 26, 2010, at 3:33 PM, Adib Masumian adibmasum...@gmail.com wrote:

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 
 Not to nitpick but Sohrab actually had no discrepancy with the legitimacy of 
 Ahmad Sohrab. He just didn't like Shoghi Effendi.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 They believe the Will  Testament of Abdu'l-Baha to be authoritative and 
 valid ie unlike Mirza Ahmad Sohrab
 
 
 __
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 Yes, they were apostates, but what faith did they convert to?

They went back to Islam as far as I know.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Where do you live Steve, in Indiana?

The reason I'm asking is that ABMs are assigned to different
geographical areas. If I know where you live I can tell you who your
ABM for protection is.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Sounds plausible, either way. Muslims tend to view Baha'is as a heresy.


 




From: Adib Masumian adibmasum...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:30:59 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv

To the best of my knowledge they either distanced themselves from religion or 
passed themselves off as Muslims.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 26, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

Yes, they were apostates, but what faith did they convert to?





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
By Faith I mean the Baha'i Faith.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What faith or faiths were they? Babi/Bayani/Azali? Muslim? Christian?
 Daheshi?


  
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Shamim Bina
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
thanks Adib for this clarification. Steve, the best way to get a hold of
your ABM, contact your LSA asap and they will help you out.

Sincerely,
Shamim

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Adib Masumian adibmasum...@gmail.comwrote:

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv


 To the best of my knowledge they either distanced themselves from religion
 or passed themselves off as Muslims.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 26, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv


 Yes, they were apostates, but what faith did they convert to?

  --
 *From:* Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 *To:* Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 *Sent:* Thu, August 26, 2010 3:21:58 PM
 *Subject:* Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 By Faith I mean the Baha'i Faith.

 On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Stephen Gray  skg_z...@yahoo.com
 skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
  The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 
  What faith or faiths were they? Babi/Bayani/Azali? Muslim? Christian?
  Daheshi?
 
  
  From: Susan Maneck  sman...@gmail.comsman...@gmail.com
  To: Baha'i Studies  bahai-st@list.jccc.edubahai-st@list.jccc.edu
  Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:11:53 PM
  Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship
 
  The Baha'i Studies Listserv
  Also, who are Avarih and Niku?
 
  Avarih was a prominent Baha'i who left the Faith during the time of
  the Guardian and eventually wrote books against the Faith. Niku was
  his friend who eventually did the same thing.
 
  __
  You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto: skg_z...@yahoo.com
 skg_z...@yahoo.com
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 leave-522802-17190...@list.jccc.edu
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 http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker
 websites?
 What game are you playing?

Easy, Tim. Keep in mind that Stephen is a new believer and an isolated
one. Virtually everything he knows about the Faith he has gotten off
the internet.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
There are no Baha'i places of worship in my area.

Yellow Pages list all houses of worship as churches, even mosques 
(Churches-Islamic), synagouges (Churches-Jewish sometimes as Synogouges), 
gurdwaras (Churches-Sikh or Churches-Hindu or Churches-Islamic), etc. 


Is there any area in the country where you would open up a Yellow Pages and 
find 
a Churches-Baha'i section?

I always thought of the Baha'i Faith as a religion where one's one home took 
the 
place of a mosque. 






From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker
 websites?
 What game are you playing?

Easy, Tim. Keep in mind that Stephen is a new believer and an isolated
one. Virtually everything he knows about the Faith he has gotten off
the internet.

__
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 Not to nitpick but Sohrab actually had no discrepancy with the legitimacy of
 Ahmad Sohrab. He just didn't like Shoghi Effendi.

You mean the Will and Testament.

That is pretty much where Avarih was coming from. At first he
questioned the authenticity of the Will but when he saw it he admitted
it was genuine. Where Ahmad Sohrab and Avarih both parted company with
the Guardian is they wanted to see the immediate election of the
Universal House of Justice whereas Shoghi Effendi insisted that NSAs
had to be established first.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread dkolacinski
The Baha'i Studies Listserv


Dear Stephen, 



Your Auxiliary Board Member for Protection is: 





I NDIANA ( EXCLUDING C LARK , F LOYD , H ARRISON C OUNTIES )  M ICHIGAN ( 
EXCLUDING THE U PPER P ENINSULA ) 

M R . O LIVER T HOMAS 

M R . O LIVER T HOMAS 

44819 G REENBRIAR D R REENBRIAR D R 

V AN B UREN T OWNSHIP , MI 48111 AN B UREN T OWNSHIP , MI 48111 

EBT 2000@ MICH . COM 2000@ MICH . COM 

T EL : 734 ‐ 697 ‐ 5233 

EL : 734 ‐ 697 ‐ 5233 





Your Auxiliary Board Member for Propagation is: 



I NDIANA ( EXCLUDING CLARK , FLOYD , HARRISON COUNTIES ), M ICHIGAN ( EXCLUDING 
UP),  O HIO NDIANA ( EXCLUDING CLARK , FLOYD , HARRISON COUNTIES ), M ICHIGAN 
( EXCLUDING UP),  O HIO 

M R . R ENAN W OODS R . R ENAN W OODS 

3373 B URBANK D R URBANK D R 

A NN A RBOR , MI 48105 NN A RBOR , MI 48105 

RENANWOODS @ YAHOO . COM @ YAHOO . COM 



You really need to get in touch with the Baha'i's in your area.  There are 
Baha'i's in Gary where you live, and throughout Lake and Porter Counties.  They 
have reached out to you, but you don't get in touch with us. 



If you have lost the contact information, just respond to this posting and I 
will contact you off-list with the information. 



Dennis Kolacinski 
- Original Message - 
From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com 
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu 
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:37:37 PM 
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship 

The Baha'i Studies Listserv 


Yes. 




From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com 
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu 
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:34:21 PM 
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship 

The Baha'i Studies Listserv 
Where do you live Steve, in Indiana? 

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Stephen Gray  skg_z...@yahoo.com  wrote: 
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv 
 
 How many members are there? How does one know who's one member is? Also how 
 can one tell from the name as Auxiliary can mean anything? 
 
  
 From: Susan Maneck  sman...@gmail.com  
 To: Baha'i Studies  bahai-st@list.jccc.edu  
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:17:07 PM 
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship 
 
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv 
 I'm suggesting that you contact your Auxiliary Board Member for 
 Protection. As the name suggests they are there to handle protection 
 issues. 
 
 On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Stephen Gray  skg_z...@yahoo.com  wrote: 
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv 
 
 What is the job of an AB member? 
 
  
 From: Susan Maneck  sman...@gmail.com  
 To: Baha'i Studies  bahai-st@list.jccc.edu  
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:00:54 PM 
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship 
 
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv 
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken 
 up. 
 
 Dear Steve, 
 
 If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they 
 might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort 
 of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their 
 URLs  on the internet. 
 
 warmest, Susan 
 
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 Web - 

Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
You sent me contact info on a Baha'i that lived in Crown Point when I emailed 
him.





From: dkolacin...@comcast.net dkolacin...@comcast.net
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:56:57 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

Dear Stephen,
 
Your Auxiliary Board Member for Protection is:
 
INDIANA (EXCLUDING CLARK, FLOYD, HARRISON COUNTIES)  MICHIGAN (EXCLUDING THE 
UPPER PENINSULA) R. OLIVER THOMAS 44819 GREENBRIAR DR VAN BUREN TOWNSHIP, MI 
48111 ebt2...@mich.com T
 
Your Auxiliary Board Member for Propagation is:
 INDIANA (EXCLUDING CLARK, FLOYD, HARRISON COUNTIES), MICHIGAN (EXCLUDING UP), 
 
OHIO MR. RENAN WOODS 3373 BURBANK DR ANN ARBOR, MI 48105 RENANWOODS @YAHOO.COM
 
You really need to get in touch with the Baha'i's in your area.  There are 
Baha'i's in Gary where you live, and throughout Lake and Porter Counties.  They 
have reached out to you, but you don't get in touch with us.
 
If you have lost the contact information, just respond to this posting and I 
will contact you off-list with the information.
 
Dennis Kolacinski
- Original Message -
From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:37:37 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv

Yes.





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:34:21 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Where do you live Steve, in Indiana?

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 How many members are there? How does one know who's one member is? Also how
 can one tell from the name as Auxiliary can mean anything?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:17:07 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 I'm suggesting that you contact your Auxiliary Board Member for
 Protection. As the name suggests they are there to handle protection
 issues.

 On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Baha'i Studies Listserv

 What is the job of an AB member?

 
 From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
 To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
 Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:00:54 PM
 Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

 The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 Sounds like regular Baha'i just with a list of reforms they want taken
 up.

 Dear Steve,

 If they reject the authority of the Universal House of Justice they
 might well be Covenant breakers. It is also better to check this sort
 of material out with your Auxiliary Board Member before posting their
 URLs  on the internet.

 warmest, Susan

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 Old Public - 

Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv


There are no Baha'i places of worship in my area.
 
Yellow Pages list all houses of worship as churches, even mosques 
(Churches-Islamic), synagouges (Churches-Jewish sometimes as Synogouges), 
gurdwaras (Churches-Sikh or Churches-Hindu or Churches-Islamic), etc. 

 
Is there any area in the country where you would open up a Yellow Pages and 
find 
a Churches-Baha'i section?
 
I always thought of the Baha'i Faith as a religion where one's one home took 
the 
place of a mosque. 


Edit: I looked it up and the term would be Haziratu'l-Quds.





From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker
 websites?
 What game are you playing?

Easy, Tim. Keep in mind that Stephen is a new believer and an isolated
one. Virtually everything he knows about the Faith he has gotten off
the internet.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Iskandar Hai, M.D.
The Baha'i Studies Listserv


How far do you live from Wilmette, Illinois, dear Stephen? There is a 
magnificent Baha'i house of worship there, on Sheridan Road in Wilmette. 


Best regards, 

Iskandar 



Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
Sender: bounce-522831-2080...@list.jccc.eduDate: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:47:48 
To: Baha'i Studiesbahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Reply-To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
There are no Baha'i places of worship in my area.

Yellow Pages list all houses of worship as churches, even mosques 
(Churches-Islamic), synagouges (Churches-Jewish sometimes as Synogouges), 
gurdwaras (Churches-Sikh or Churches-Hindu or Churches-Islamic), etc. 


Is there any area in the country where you would open up a Yellow Pages and 
find 
a Churches-Baha'i section?

I always thought of the Baha'i Faith as a religion where one's one home took 
the 
place of a mosque. 






From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker
 websites?
 What game are you playing?

Easy, Tim. Keep in mind that Stephen is a new believer and an isolated
one. Virtually everything he knows about the Faith he has gotten off
the internet.

__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-522828-17190...@list.jccc.edu
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu
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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Stephen Gray
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
According to Google Maps, there are 49 miles between Wilmete and Gary.





From: Iskandar Hai, M.D. iskandar@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 4:51:43 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship


The Baha'i Studies Listserv


How far do you live from Wilmette, Illinois, dear Stephen? There is a 
magnificent Baha'i house of worship there, on Sheridan Road in Wilmette. 



Best regards, 

Iskandar 



Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com 
Sender: bounce-522831-2080...@list.jccc.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:47:48 -0700
To: Baha'i Studiesbahai-st@list.jccc.edu
ReplyTo: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu 
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv

There are no Baha'i places of worship in my area.

Yellow Pages list all houses of worship as churches, even mosques 
(Churches-Islamic), synagouges (Churches-Jewish sometimes as Synogouges), 
gurdwaras (Churches-Sikh or Churches-Hindu or Churches-Islamic), etc. 


Is there any area in the country where you would open up a Yellow Pages and 
find 
a Churches-Baha'i section?

I always thought of the Baha'i Faith as a religion where one's one home took 
the 
place of a mosque. 






From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: Universal House of Guardianship

The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to covenant breaker
 websites?
 What game are you playing?

Easy, Tim. Keep in mind that Stephen is a new believer and an isolated
one. Virtually everything he knows about the Faith he has gotten off
the internet.

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
 There are no Baha'i places of worship in my area.

That's not surprising. There is only one House of worship on each
continent. Large communities have Baha'i Centers but most communities
meet in people's homes. Baha'is often have listings in the phone book
but not usually under 'churches.'

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Re: Universal House of Guardianship

2010-08-26 Thread Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Dear friends,

I consulted with the Baha'i Internet Agency and have been informed
that the person behind the website Steve posted is indeed a declared
Covenant breaker.

warmest, Susan

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