Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Nkoli wrote: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having worked in Open-Hardware for over 15 years now, I was, in fact, expecting a much more coherent strategy for the software platform on Freerunner than just let the community decide. Certainly, the community aspect of this project is huge; I am not saying that it is not valuable to have such great public influence on the design; just that: there *has* to be a rigid design approach to guide development, or else we end up with a torn map navigating fork-city. Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying where he's trying to come from. I'm not saying that everybody should immideately agree with him, but this is one of the main points of having an open community. There NEEDS to be open criticism and discussion, it's not like there's only one truth. Trying to silence and belittle people who see differently is exactly what should be avoided. Trolling is one thing, but I think Linus is a great example. Having strong oppinions and stating them can be good, even if I don't always agree, but they're never at least unfounded. Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
I think my first project will be called MokoBingo! (with the exclamation mark!)! It will check the mailing list on a regular basis and the Freerunner will make a squeaky noise when any of the following terms are encountered: heh heh .. please do this! :) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere. Last I checked, no one put a gun to your head and forced you to buy or design for the FR. If you're tired of waiting for the device to become stable, sell the phone and check back again in about a year. What part of 'open' don't you get? Its open. I can criticise if I think its necessary. So once again, if you believe your time and money has been wasted on the project, cut your losses now and go. Develop for another device until the neo becomes more palatable to your tastes. I'm hacking on Freerunner daily. Its my chosen platform. When I criticise the strategy and the approach being made to establish a platform, its because I intend to stick with it. Wouldn't make sense otherwise. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
And while Openmoko is working on their own framework, I have to agree with many other voices: knowing which platform to develop for, as a developer myself, is confusing. I don't like the thought of having to write multiple versions of an application that caters to GTK and Qt separately, although I recall that the FSO framework is trying to bridge that gap. But I also don't want to have to market my application as only works on 2007.2/FSO because I use GTK because that's the route I chose to build my app. More important to note is the hassles involved in *testing* for all the differing platforms. I've got lofty dreams that my applications might actually be worth it to someone. But if I have to support them on all 4 different platforms, thats 4 more phones I should buy and set up with the different environments .. hmm .. Personally, I signed up to help manage the wiki to make it a better source of information. I'm working on developer tutorials. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
If you need a benevolent dictator to lead, why not become one yourself? Because there is one already, he just doesn't have any power to make smart design decisions because of some new-age hippy-dippy faff. If you need standards why not make them? This is not a responsibility of the Openmoko team. They already gave us the damn thing to build it all on. This really is the job of the community. Stop whining and start doing the job yourself if you want it done. It's no one else's responsibility. I am: building apps (a game, a time tool, a music system), and: working on developer tutorials to help my fellows also build apps they are interested in. Stay tuned. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Flash ASU
Paul Buede wrote: Hey, I was looking at the wiki but could not find something that laid the steps out for me. I have been messing with the default image, and have it upgraded as of yesterday. I want to check out the ASU image. Whats the best way to do that? I don't have anything in the phone yet that I want to save, so I don't mind wiping it out and reloading later. Please give me the steps, or a link to the steps, to get the ASU image loading on the phone. I grabbed the roots fs from here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080722-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 And the latest kernel from here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080728/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin I got to those files by reading this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images#ASU_.28April.7CAugust_Software_Update.29_qtopia-based_Image Then I followed the instructions to flash that are here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner -- Charles-Henri ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 01:08 +0200, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller wrote: Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 00:46 +0200 schrieb Marcus Bauer: On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 15:33 -0700, steve wrote: Of course!!! Every toolkit is allowed. The whole point about FSO is to free people to pick their toolkit! The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless. Please stop telling these lies. Marcus, did I miss the irony here, or do you really believe this? This is simply a matter of fact, not of believe. FSO is a shitty API collection which is closely connected to ASU. Steve is a sales guy and has not much clue of the underlying software, thus he simply repeats what others told him. The bad combination is NIH (not invented here) together with almightyness thinking which results in all this religion here, making people like you ask whether I believe. I don't believe, I simply know. Why should anyone at Openmoko want to keep out other frameworks, after even putting qtopia to X11? That was mostly Trolltech's work. And apart from that you technically can't keep out any other toolkit because there is Linux below and X on top of it. But FSO combines plenty of different things into one collection of API's and that is how the Microsoft world works and always did and which drove so many developers to Linux. If I use Apache as webserver I can use Konqueror, Opera, Safari or Firefox as browser. However, Microsoft has more than once tried to tie Internet Explorer to IIS, giving it an advantage over other browsers. Same goes for Microsoft Office and Windows. To make it clear (and to prevent Wolfgang Spraul from alluding to incorrect assumptions in case he should answer me): I welcome both qtopia on X11 and an ETK based desktop and ETK based applications on the phone. Linux is all about choice (and that is what freedom means): If I don't want to, I don't have to. On my desktop computer I have a big choice of window managers and they flawlessly work together with a big choice of browsers and a big choice of webservers. For all those teletubby fanbois who are now ready to jump on me: I'm the developer of tangoGPS and have a decent clue what I'm talking about. I'll ask you one question: why was there so much fighting in the free software world about ODF versus Microsoft's OpenXML? I'll answer it for you: because OpenXML ties people to MS Office. FSO is the brainchild of Dr. Michael Lauer, fresh from the university's ivory tower but lacking any industry experience. It is reinventing the wheel and drains lots of ressources that are needed elsewhere inside of Openmoko. It combines plenty of things out of which one is a new PIM API based on dbus. This idea alone is worth to be mentioned every day for a year on the dailyWTF website. It is not about GTK or qt or ETK. It is about getting a working platform out to users and developers. OM2007.2 was mostly there. It reminds me to a joke: Two fools try to escape from a lunatics hospital. There are 100 walls to climb over and so they start: 10, 20, 50, 90, 99. In that moment says the one to the other: 'Lets go back and do the last wall tomorrow'. ...have fun and enjoy life and start looking at the Neo what it is: a tiny Linux computer with a GPS and a GSM modem. There is no sudden revolution going to happen tomorrow. Freedom is a synonym for choice. The choice for your keyboard, for your window manager, for you applications, last not least for your gsmd. FIC/Openmoko came to support Linux on their hardware platform in order to give you this choice. Now it has changed into some religious life-style thingy with phantasies of becoming tomorrows ubiquitious lifestyle equipment. Linux definitely will be, Openmoko can be part of it but thinking that Openmoko is the only parent is just megalomania. Come down to earth, stop excusing hardware flaws with open and freedom, just sit down and fix them and Openmoko hardware will have a bright future. Best regards, Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying where he's trying to come from. Thank you Kalle .. no, I'm not trolling, yes I am voicing a strong opinion, yes I do think the Freerunner is a cool device to hack on, no I don't have any plans to abandon my work, yes I would like it if there was a little more spirited organization towards delivering a *finished* system that targets users and which developers can stably approach. I'm not saying that everybody should immideately agree with him, but this is one of the main points of having an open community. There NEEDS to be open criticism and discussion, it's not like there's only one truth. Indeed. Keep in mind people, the Freerunner is not the only open- hardware project out there (Pandora, I've got my eyes on you, baby), its just one that has a lot of hype going for it because of the general interest (Apple) towards beefier cell phone computing .. how many times have I looked at iPhone with hungry eyes, goodness .. Trying to silence and belittle people who see differently is exactly what should be avoided. Trolling is one thing, but I think Linus is a great example. Having strong oppinions and stating them can be good, even if I don't always agree, but they're never at least unfounded. Linus is a champion. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community contributions to core apps features. (Was: Terminalfor ASU)
steve wrote: If you want to start a wiki about OM. Sean is the CEO, I am the VP of marketing, Wolfgang is the VP of Engineering. we announced this a long while ago in the press. First attempt: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Employees Based on review of all press releases at openmoko.com and looking for openmoko.org or openmoko.com email addresses in the June/July archives of the community, support, and documentation email lists. This first effort likely leaves out some people and even of those listed, official titles are often not known. It's a wiki: please contribute to make this more complete. Brian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
Lisa wrote: ~ Folks, ~ I don't need a major design statement for my phone...I just want a (mostly) working phone. There is a point where taking one more thing away doesn't make it simpler any longer, it makes it hard to figure out/work on. Not having a terminal in ASU ( the general style of which I like) and taking the manual keyboard switch out of ASU (which actually WORKS as opposed to the automatic pop up which doesn't) were bad ideas , at least for as long as this thing is going to be in pre-release. I could understand it in a general release, but the people who have it now are EXACTLY the kind of people who would whip it out and noodle around with the terminal during lunch break if they could. I know I would..or if you HAVE to leave them out could someone post easy to follow directions to replace them in the wiki somewhere?? For those of us not gifted with totally amazing programming skills? You mean like this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Keyboard_Toggle -- Charles-Henri ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marcus Bauer wrote: FSO is the brainchild of Dr. Michael Lauer, fresh from the university's ivory tower but lacking any industry experience. It is reinventing the wheel and drains lots of ressources that are needed elsewhere inside of Openmoko. It combines plenty of things out of which one is a new PIM API based on dbus. This idea alone is worth to be mentioned every day for a year on the dailyWTF website. If you think it is wasting resource please show us the way: OM need a lot you experience. But please do it in a concrete way, else it is only smoke -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiOvXUACgkQSIAU/I6SkT3H/QCeO/jqMv53nnjehUUOCZCQrVUG a7wAn1QC9CcnWkSbNm16YVoFO2Y/3sho =u6Aw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sound
It worked for a few times, but has now gone silent. Maybe it will get more stable. BillK On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 20:14 -0700, Scott Petersen wrote: W.Kenworthy wrote: Certainly sounds like the same problem. BillK On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 21:14 -0500, Steven ** wrote: Do you have it set to dim, then lock? In my experience, a suspend kills sound out of the speaker. Making a call seems to restore the sound. Others have found that rebooting (or just restarting X) restores sound. There's a thread on the support list about this. Perhaps you're seeing the same thing. -Steven On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:34 PM, W.Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ive just realised that I have never heard my OM ring, or make a sound when an sms comes in just vibrate. The annoying 'tick' on the keyboard comes and goes (mostly is gone thank goodness :) Is this normal? - shouldnt think so! I had the same issue and found that mwester had a solution has worked for me for a while now. http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html I still have suspend resume issues but this works most of the time. Cheers Scott Petersen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Flashing Qtopia using Windows XP SP2.
Hi, Thanks a lot to all of you guys for helping on this...especially Ajith and Rakshat I have done following things. 1. Connected Neo to Windows XP SP2 machine 2. Installed neo1972.inf file 3. Assaign IP Address and Subnet mask to the conection 4. Downloaded dfu-util.exe and OpenMokoDFU files 5. Switched off ( Network connection disables.)and Switched on to NOR Boot and Selected Set console t USB 6. But System don't prompt for OpenMokoDFU drivers ( Here at this stage, Network connection disabled.). What would be the reason...Is there any other ways to install OpenMokoDFU Drivers. Thanks Bijoy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suspend and immediate wake-up
On Monday 28 July 2008, arne anka wrote: I have the same issue (not always but sometimes),.. and this comes probably not from GSM network messages... Because it happens over and over again (once this issue happens). i've gotten the impression that the acceleration sensors play an importanmt role. it simply happens too often that i take the fr in my hands and it wakes up -- too often at least to be purely conicidential. cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason With a recent kernel and uboot this should tell you which device woke it up by sticking a * next to the interrupt that did it, and another to provide more detail if it was the PMU that did it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 17:14 -0700, ian douglas wrote: And while Openmoko is working on their own framework, I have to agree with many other voices: knowing which platform to develop for, as a developer myself, is confusing. This is exactly the point. Openmoko should be like Ubuntu: integrating what is there and adding here and there a missing link. Ubuntu wouldn't be there where it stands today if there would be an Ubuntu framework. They are just making nice distributions and that is the key of their success. There is no real difference between Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu. Gimp (GTK) will run on Kubuntu and Scribus (qt) on Ubuntu and both do run on Xubuntu. However, openmoko-messages will not run on ASU. The Framework idea is a Microsoft idea. Remember the days when you couldn't even uninstall Internet Explorer? It was part of the framework. The success of Linux is based on the freedom of choice. No frameworks there. Last not least: the phonekit of OM2007.2 is dbus based too and can therefore be used with qt, etk or whatever else pleases you. This whole argument that FSO allows cross-toolkit is stale. Well, just lets go back over 99 walls... Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suspend and immediate wake-up
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On Monday 28 July 2008, arne anka wrote: | I have the same issue (not always but sometimes),.. and this comes | probably not from GSM network messages... | Because it happens over and over again (once this issue happens). | i've gotten the impression that the acceleration sensors play an | importanmt role. | it simply happens too often that i take the fr in my hands and it wakes up | -- too often at least to be purely conicidential. | | cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason | | With a recent kernel and uboot this should tell you which device woke it up by | sticking a * next to the interrupt that did it, and another to provide more | detail if it was the PMU that did it. Right. The Motion sensors can be a wake source, but we neither enable it right now nor set them up in threshold mode so we get an interrupt if they experienced something big. It's likely just the GSM traffic stuff. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiOx28ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrKaQCfVyZhKLgIH0HjD2iWyd0YDILQ zD8AniGuOkDDKH6gQIQgbQ+jUFnUiXfp =xqSC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suspend and immediate wake-up
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 23:28, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've gotten the impression that the acceleration sensors play an importanmt role. it simply happens too often that i take the fr in my hands and it wakes up -- too often at least to be purely conicidential. Indeed I noticed the same wakes on move (when I take my phone in hands, not touching the screen). But with Qtopia my phone does not wake up this way. Neither on moves, nor during cell registration. It does however correctly wake up on incoming calls and SMS. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Flash ASU
Most of these instructions i have pulled off the wiki or from other e-mails, Do not hold me responsible if you brick your Freerunner while following them. Here is what has worked for me so far First you want to get the newest ASU rootfs from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/ The newest ASU rootfs for now is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080722/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080722-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 After you have downloaded that you will want to go to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner Following the instructions on the page download the dfu-util to the same directory as the rootfs.jffs2 http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/dfu-util Now you will need to power down your Freerunner and power it into the NOR uBoot menu for flashing. (in short: press and hold aux then power) When the menu has come up attach the Freerunner to your host linux system via USB. *note* uBoot menu will not stay on for long, unless you scroll using the aux button Now open a terminal on the host linux system, go to the directory of your dfu-util and rootfs.jffs2,and run the command: *note* changing the name of the rootfs.jffs2 to whatever you downloaded ./dfu-util -a rootfs -R -D Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080722-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Let dfu-util run its magic, then you should be able to boot into the ASU. - Now if you installed the 200807022 ASU you will notice some problems, mainly that there is no keyboard! What you will need to do now is to opkg update and upgrade. Assuming your host linux system has internet you will want to follow the instructions in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking On the host linux system commands ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] should allow you to connect to the phone. -- If you do not know how to use the vi editor on the Freerunner you may not be able to do this next part Also read the notes before updating your .conf files Once you have your phone connected to the internet you will want to change your opkg feeds. Manually you can just goto /etc/opkg and use vi *.conf, or you can download updated .confs from http://www.mikeasoft.com/~mike/opkg-asu.tar.gz On the phone just cd /etc and type wget http://www.mikeasoft.com/~mike/opkg-asu.tar.gz; followed by tar xzf opkg-asu* This will extract the *.conf files to /etc/opkg. *IMPORTANT NOTE1* If you change the neo1973-feed.conf to http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/ASU/neo1973, opkg will download a kernel for the neo1973 onto your freerunner, while it wont stop the phone from working it may stop the phone from having sound. *IMPORTANT NOTE2* The newest e-wm and illume packages do not seem to work, opkg upgrade may stop you from being able to boot into the ASU, tho you can still connect to it with ssh. For now i would recommend pointing /etc/opkg/armv4t.conf to http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t and rerun opkg update before running opkg upgrade. *IMPORTANT NOTE3* opkg install http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02//kernel-image-2.6.24_2.6.24+git25+8533927964761f4e2078ccd8607b90f5acc60b93-r0_om-gta02.ipk does not seem to flash the kernel correctly and will cause the system to hang right as you power up your phone. you will need to reflash your kernel in order to be able to boot again. --- To get a keyboard working, and hopefully not kill your phone, try installing the above *.conf files, but before running opkg update or upgrade : rm /etc/opkg/om-gta02-d* echo src/gz daily-neo1973 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973; /etc/opkg/neo* echo src/gz daily-armv4t http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t; /etc/opkg/arm* opkg install http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/ASU/armv4t/app-restarter_1.0+svn4552-r0_armv4t.ipk Now run opkg update, followed by opkg upgrade. Reboot your Freerunner and so long as you boot into the ASU you should be able to use the keyboard in Qtopia apps -- If you are going to be installing GTK apps, such as opkg install openmoko-terminal2 you will want to be able to use the keyboard, either you can have the keyboard automatically popup by installing matchbox-keyboard-im*.ipk, or you can install a theme with the qwerty button. To have the keyboard automagically popup cd /tmp mkdir matchbox-keyboard cd matchbox-keyboard wget http://www.ginguppin.de/files/keyboard-ipk.tar.bz2 tar -jxf keyboard-ipk.tar.bz2 opkg install matchbox-keyboard-im*.ipk cd .. rm -rf matchbox-keyboard *note* it will extract 3 files, you only need to install matchbox-keyboard-im*.ipk The other packages may completely replace the keyboard...
Re: Openmoko on Design
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community Design. This is a long, careful response to Sean's Openmoko on Design post. If one goes back to the beginning of the Terminal for ASU thread, what you find is that several users were just getting things set up and mostly working in ASU and then they upgraded and found numerous things were broken because they no longer had a means of manually bringing up a keyboard. A keyboard that always automatically knows when it is needed sounds great in theory, but prior to that perfect keyboard being implemented, what happened here was that users experienced a degradation in usability and had no obvious means of restoring the lost functionality. They were understandably frustrated by this. At the same time we heard comments from a key developer who indicated that the decision was made above him by unnamed individuals with whom the community has no obvious means of communication, and who apparently don't even listen to the reasonable technical arguments of key developers. This also seemed to reveal something about the internals of Openmoko that weren't expected: development decisions are not entirely made by the developers, but instead they answer to some people who the community cannot readily identify and who the community doesn't know how to interact with or if they even can interact with these decision-makers. This led to another set of questions. Many in the community presumed that they would be permitted to contribute code/ideas/design to the software stack that Openmoko is developing, i.e., ASU, but if there are unnamed designers implementing a private design superstructure that overrides even Openmoko developers, then the usefulness or likelihood of thinking that an ordinary end user could become an important part of that development process seems extremely diminished, if not extinguished. This understandably disappointed developers who had hoped to make such core contributions. When prodded to respond, Openmoko employees indicated a willingness to answer questions. At least the following very specific questions were asked: 1) Who is Openmoko's design department? 2) Many in the community believed that Openmoko wanted the community to contribute code to the core applications/functionality of the software stack. Is this not the case? 3) If the design department is operating from a design document, has it been made public? If so, where? If not, why not? Sean responded with a lengthy email. It illustrated again why he is the CEO. A CEO needs to be focused on the big picture, as was his response. A CEO also needs to point his or her team and the customers towards that vision. Sean's email was great at this. However, I think many in the community just wanted some specific answers to the questions above. Sean's email only partially succeeds at this. We learned: Being open doesn't mean we put the essential ideas behind each product to a public vote. which suggests that there may be some parts of what Openmoko is developing that the community will not have a means of directly participating in, and tends to confirm some of the fears expressed above. But we also learned: We're building an empty vessel for you to fill with your ideas. and Change anything you want to our interface and we will gladly deliver it to everyone. and these suggest that community contributions are welcome, even to the interface, and those contributions will sometimes, at least, become an officially distributed part of the Openmoko interface. So that tends to counteract those fears. And while we didn't get any answer to question (1)--who is the design team?--we were told that an answer to question (3)--is there a design doc?--would require working as an Openmoko employee for several months. I think the implication of this has to be that, No, there isn't a single design document that can be pointed to at this moment that explains every decision made or priority had by the Openmoko team. OK. Fine. Everyone should step back and recognize that the device has not even been on sale for a full month. Maybe some people were expecting from day one to use it as their everyday phone for push email, calendar, and contacts, and web browsing and video/mp3 playback, and GPS applications-galore, all with a bluetooth headset that would be operated by accelerometers or something. But we all recognize now that it's not there yet. So, we all should also recognize that there are a million little (and some big) things that need to be done to get the device to have all the capabilities that its hardware make possible. But the community can have (at least) two distinct ways of helping with that giant TODO list. 1) The community can build applications that run on a framework delivered to us by the Openmoko team; or 2) the community can be directly involved in working on the underlying framework on the device; or 3) both. It was this incident with the keyboard that made several people
Re: Not activate WiFi at PowerOn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hello, | | How can I disable WiFi at PowerOn? | It´s not nice to manually disable it after all Reboot. I was staring at this code the other day... we just force it up during machine init. It's expensive too, 300ms or so wasted on it blocking startup and the power is subsequently always getting used. I will push it into its own powermanagement /sys file like we do bt and gps for example, but this will break userspace until they start using the /sys. Still one the dust settles that will be much more sane. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiOzL4ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqvwwCaA0ZfRGawovdD/PpqlSAMbOMY jnAAnAmROtxbfARgimakUTCgw8Cd6JEU =4O0O -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
A keyboard that always automatically knows when it is needed sounds great in theory, but prior to that perfect keyboard being implemented, what happened here was that users experienced a degradation in usability and had no obvious means of restoring the lost functionality. They were understandably frustrated by this. It should be noted, also, that this degradation in usability occurred not just with the keyboard panel functionality, but with quite a few other things in the OM eco-sphere as well - bluetooth, for example, regressed, somewhere in between 2007.8 and 2008.2, as did audio, as has SDL support, and I think we could really come up with a list of quite a few things that 'sort of almost worked, and then stopped completely being usable' .. It is a sensitivity to this back-stepping that leads me to a more vocal opinion about how the base distro platform is being managed at this time. At the same time we heard comments from a key developer who indicated that the decision was made above him by unnamed individuals with whom the community has no obvious means of communication, and who apparently don't even listen to the reasonable technical arguments of key developers. This also seemed to reveal something about the internals of Openmoko that weren't expected: development decisions are not entirely made by the developers, but instead they answer to some people who the community cannot readily identify and who the community doesn't know how to interact with or if they even can interact with these decision- makers. Thus putting lie to the 'its open, so fix it yourself' argument'. This led to another set of questions. Many in the community presumed that they would be permitted to contribute code/ideas/design to the software stack that Openmoko is developing, i.e., ASU, but if there are unnamed designers implementing a private design superstructure that overrides even Openmoko developers, then the usefulness or likelihood of thinking that an ordinary end user could become an important part of that development process seems extremely diminished, if not extinguished. This understandably disappointed developers who had hoped to make such core contributions. I concur with your excellent conclusion and only wish I could've been more eloquent on this issue personally. Sean's email only partially succeeds at this. Actually, it raised alarm bells, in these quarters. It appeared, to me, to be somewhat of a smoke-cloud in an attempt to provide cover over a situation that is detrimental to the survival of OpenMoko as a whole; not just as a company, but also as a community. It is a CEO's job to provide smoke and mirrors when all else fails. We're building an empty vessel for you to fill with your ideas. and Change anything you want to our interface and we will gladly deliver it to everyone. and these suggest that community contributions are welcome, even to the interface, and those contributions will sometimes, at least, become an officially distributed part of the Openmoko interface. So that tends to counteract those fears. I think this is really more of a feint on the part of an embattled CEO, actually. The two conditions: we reserve certain parts of our system for our own designs, and you can contribute whatever you want and we will distribute it to all and sundry are not compatible. Does not compute. Maybe some people were expecting from day one to use it as their everyday phone for push email, calendar, and contacts, and web browsing and video/mp3 playback, and GPS applications-galore, all with a bluetooth headset that would be operated by accelerometers or something. This is as good a spec as we're going to get, isn't it? Further, a number of developers have repeatedly asked with respect to option (1): How do I design my application to work with so many different stacks? What should I be targeting? Sometimes this gets answered with: Take your pick! The ultimate goal is for all such applications to work regardless, i.e., FSO is supposedly going to run GTK, Qt, or whatever-based apps. But most developers who ask this question don't understand how that is supposed to work and need a little more guidance on how to go about things so that they know that they aren't wasting their time building something that won't end up working. That is, it sounds like these developers NEED some sort of design document so that they better understand where things are headed so that they can do their part. For my part I can help with this - I believe that developer tutorials that demonstrate how to operate in these environments and still produce a viable result are badly needed, so I am continuing the work I started with my DraftNotes last year, and will expand this to include: 1. How to set up a compile-onboard environment that works for new apps development, thus avoiding
Re: Bus Error
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | During a opkg upgrade apparently the network connection stopped because the FR | fell asleep (my rendition of what happened). | | After booting everything was fine, except that I cannot connect anymore to the | FR through USB. | | If usb0 gets uped through ifconfig, I get the same: bus error | | Any idea of what might have happened and how the situation can be remedied | (other that reloading the root file system? Bus Error is some exception happening... we have alignment fixup enabled AFAIK so it isn't that. Do a dmesg before and after this and post any new info that got added there. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiOz9AACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpnSgCeO2dWjnDIb2QGjKoekOUgRWfx 7bEAn1rgHXZqzi+tLsI12zsDleBJ6A+T =196C -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 00:35 -0700, Brian C wrote: [snip lots of very clever thoughts] So, I'll ask again: does Openmoko intend to allow direct code contributions by community members to core components of the ASU/FSO frameworks? It would be better to get rid of this whole framework concept and doing what Sean is constantly talking about: freedom. Freedom of choice. The framework means tying the applications to the system level which is like tying Firefox to Apache. No developer who is sane in his mind will want to marry a whole PIM API just for sending an SMS. And FSO is essentially a newly invented, unstable and immature PIM API. This is so much like Microsoft. And there are already plenty of PIM APIs. Just use one of them, they all work cross toolkit. The gsmd needs a libgsmd and on top of this implement whatever dbus API you like. This is freedom. This is choice. But by immediately glueing the dbus API to a specific gsmd you forcefully marry all developers to your FSO. End of freedom, end of choice. phonekit is a lot more flexible and future proof than FSO. Due to the nature of dbus it can potentially run side by side with any other 'phonekit'. But the whole point of FSO is to block this out. Why do you want people to rip phonekit out of OM2007.2? It is not your business anyway if you stopped development of OM2007.2. The problem is not ETK, not qtopia, not GTK. The problem is framework and FSO. This whole strength of Linux is separation of components. Do one thing and do it well. Why willfully destroy this great concept of success? Openmoko should concentrate on kernel and driver work, power management and working hardware and a basic set of apps. All this is mostly there with OM2007.2 and now energy is better spend on doing thousand of little improvements than starting again from scratch. Marcus - developer of tangoGPS. I know what I'm talking about. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suspend and immediate wake-up
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 09:31, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Because it happens over and over again (once this issue happens). | i've gotten the impression that the acceleration sensors play an | importanmt role. | it simply happens too often that i take the fr in my hands and it wakes up | -- too often at least to be purely conicidential. | | cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason | | With a recent kernel and uboot this should tell you which device woke it up by | sticking a * next to the interrupt that did it, and another to provide more | detail if it was the PMU that did it. Right. The Motion sensors can be a wake source, but we neither enable it right now nor set them up in threshold mode so we get an interrupt if they experienced something big. It's likely just the GSM traffic stuff. - -Andy Well so it is probably that often, moving and taking the phone in hands changes gsm reception enough to trigger some activity... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
How to customize the Power button menu
Hi, I'm using the OM2007.2 on the Neo FreeRunner. I wish to customize the Power button menu, i.e. I want a menu item to go immediately to sleep, instead of using the unreliable power management. Of course I also need to know how to put the Neo on sleep... :-) -- Niccolo Rigacci Firenze - Italy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
Hi, At the same time we heard comments from a key developer who indicated that the decision was made above him by unnamed individuals with whom the community has no obvious means of communication, and who apparently don't even listen to the reasonable technical arguments of key developers. Openmoko always avoided all kind of formal structures. Thus we don't have such a thing as key or core developer - a developer would be better. This also seemed to reveal something about the internals of Openmoko that weren't expected: development decisions are not entirely made by the developers, but instead they answer to some people who the community cannot readily identify and who the community doesn't know how to interact with or if they even can interact with these decision-makers. May be it revealed that Openmoko itself is diverse as well. That some developers have different opinions than others. It was this incident with the keyboard that made several people believe option (2) was not available, and even after Sean's message, I still don't believe that we know the answer. So, I'll ask again: does Openmoko intend to allow direct code contributions by community members to core components of the ASU/FSO frameworks? If so, will such community members also have a voice in underlying design decisions that guide that/those framework(s)? if course you can - that is the whole point of Openmoko. The best way is to implement a solution, offer a package to install and let the people play with it. If your idea is convincing we will include it. Openmoko has to trust those members of the community, who prove themselves through actual contributions, to be worthy to give input on larger design issues as well. You got the point ! Marek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ringtone Question
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 4:42 AM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 1:21 PM, reaper527 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering how people have generated their ringtones for use with the openmoko. i ended up clipping mp3's and exporting them as wav files using audacity on a windows machine. i then scp'ed the wav files over to the openmoko, at which point they wouldn't work as ringtones. I haven't tried it, but I would suggest loading the default openmoko ringtone in audacity, and using exactly that format. Audacity probably isn't the best app for doing this, as it doesn't edit .wavs directly - they are imported into a 'project', then exported again. When exported, the .wav's sample format/rate is inherited from the project, not the original .wav file (unless it has changed recently - been ages since I've used it!) mhwaveedit in Linux would be a better choice for this... not sure about Windows apps though, possibly wavosaur or wavepad? Or sox, of course :-). My Freerunner hasn't arrived yet; when it does I'll check this out, it should be fairly easy to write a shell script which will convert any sound into a ringtone. It would be nice if there was an app on the phone itself to do it too... Chris. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 08:23 +0200 schrieb Marcus Bauer: The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless. Please stop telling these lies. Marcus, did I miss the irony here, or do you really believe this? [..] FSO is the brainchild of Dr. Michael Lauer, fresh from the university's ivory tower but lacking any industry experience. It is reinventing the wheel and drains lots of ressources that are needed elsewhere inside of Openmoko. It combines plenty of things out of which one is a new PIM API based on dbus. This idea alone is worth to be mentioned every day for a year on the dailyWTF website. Well, this is an interesting point. I've had the same doubt with DBUS. But event driven programming is exactly what is needed for a battery driven device. IMHO It is not about GTK or qt or ETK. It is about getting a working platform out to users and developers. OM2007.2 was mostly there. You are right. But said that, there is nothing we can do about the decision taken now. And it was taken rather now than even later, because the developers knew they could do better. It reminds me to a joke: Two fools try to escape from a lunatics hospital. There are 100 walls to climb over and so they start: 10, 20, 50, 90, 99. In that moment says the one to the other: 'Lets go back and do the last wall tomorrow'. Nice analogy. But FSO is not going back - but pauses to build a bigger ladder. Even if the idea behind FSO is to build everything from scratch - we can still take all we've got with 2007.2 and just use it in FSO until the newer, better approach is usable. (which will be in 2 or 3 months - if I read the roadmap right) I wasn't reading this list for months, but I find it a pity that guys like you where ignored when designing FSO. IMHO GTK and the Openmoko-GTK-theme have to be usable in FSO - and there has to be support for the older daemons until the new ones are usable and implemented in all apps. Greetings from Berlin Kristian -- /* Web: http://www.mput.de | Tel:+49 (0)170/6692447 * * Blog:http://mput.de/blog | ICQ:93248497* * GPG-ID: 4BBB6525 (..2009) | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * Twitter: kristian_m | MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] */ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bus Error
Eildert Groeneveld wrote: During a opkg upgrade apparently the network connection stopped because the FR fell asleep (my rendition of what happened). After booting everything was fine, except that I cannot connect anymore to the FR through USB. If usb0 gets uped through ifconfig, I get the same: bus error Any idea of what might have happened and how the situation can be remedied (other that reloading the root file system? On most platforms, this is more or less equivalent to a segfault. -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
If you need a benevolent dictator to lead, why not become one yourself? If you need standards why not make them? This is not a responsibility of the Openmoko team. They already gave us the damn thing to build it all on. This really is the job of the community. Stop whining and start doing the job yourself if you want it done. It's no one else's responsibility. sorry, but that's imho part of the responsibility of om -- if i don't liek i don't need to use it but why should i (and everyone else) invent taht kind of stuff? distributors like debian/suse/redhat/... even gentoo create distributions so you don't need to worry about all that tedious stuff like installing, updating, uninstalling, keeping track of files, creating config files and so on. most users of linux do not use it because the want to create their system from scratch -- the are happy that someone organizes things that need to be taken care of and the adjust or modify where needed. basically the same thing is it i was expecting from om. i was hoping that these decisions where made already and i had not to care about them -- i am, like probably the most of us, rather application-oriented, and i want to focus on managing existing applications and -- hopefully in a near future -- developing my own, using firm foundations. those foundations do in no way harm the freedom to create a completely different kind of managing the freerunner, like the pure existence of debian or slackware didn't hinder the creation and growing up of mandrake, suse or redhat. but the _user_ had a distribution to work with. i read seans mail rather as a polite way to say we're pissed off by all this criticism. well, as a ceo of om he can't be that frank as jay or marcus bauer from tangogps, but certainly he has a point here. otoh the hair raising issue of the root login or the thread regarding the keyboard toggle of asu prove that those being critical have valid points, too. after all, we're now (imo) at the usual point with projects being so overeloaded with ideas and imagination: people see the realy thing and realize that a lot of high hopes are far from reality -- adapting to these new facts is a lengthy process with a lot of criticism until the vision and reality match. i can fully understand that people like jay, knowing the neo1973 and hoping for the fr to fix a lot of shortcomings, _are_ annoyed, in particular when they get the impression that everything they say dies away unheard. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:23:41 +0200, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No developer who is sane in his mind will want to marry a whole PIM API just for sending an SMS. And FSO is essentially a newly invented, unstable and immature PIM API. This is so much like Microsoft. And there are already plenty of PIM APIs. Just use one of them, they all work cross toolkit. ... no i finally got what's your problem with fso. while i in some respects agree with you i otoh are worried by the very limited resources of the freerunner. on my laptop there's plenty of ram, cpu, harddisk to have all kind of apps and their daemons coexisting (but, using linux for over a decade now and coming from an k5-133 cpu, i am still annoyed and worried by the lot of rather needless daemons and background processes, in particular those evolution related ones, only for the lighntning calendar app). the fr is far more limited in this respect, so that same kind of coexistence seems hardly managable. that's where a framework seems sensible to me: a lot of functionality common to all kind of apps is put into a framework and there's no need to run concurrent processes who do basically the same thing, just because gtk uses gconf (or whatever) and etk something else and qt(opia) adds another one. what is your idea to remedy those qualms? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to customize the Power button menu
On Tuesday 29 July 2008, Niccolo Rigacci wrote: Of course I also need to know how to put the Neo on sleep... :-) apm -s ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTK in Qtopia
Hi, Is there a way to run a GTK application under Qtopia ? Some kind of GTK-Qt bridge... a way for GTK to write to Qtopia framebuffer instead of X ... or X writes to framebuffer ? ... or whole screen control switches from framebuffer to X while this app runs ? I think I have seen somewhere a solution via server X - VNC - KeyPeeble (vnc client under qtopia)... is that doable ? I realize such a solution will probably not perform ideally (speed, memory,... ?). But even if not ideal, this could be really great to be able to launch any given app. (just maybe not your every day apps) And it may even not be as bad as on your desktop when you launch another whole OS in a virtual machine... and still it can be very useful ! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not activate WiFi at PowerOn
Hi, Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 08:54 +0100 schrieb Andy Green: Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hello, | | How can I disable WiFi at PowerOn? | It´s not nice to manually disable it after all Reboot. I was staring at this code the other day... we just force it up during machine init. It's expensive too, 300ms or so wasted on it blocking startup and the power is subsequently always getting used. I will push it into its own powermanagement /sys file like we do bt and gps for example, but this will break userspace until they start using the /sys. Still one the dust settles that will be much more sane. Are you tracking this with a bug in the tracker somehow, so that one can subscribe (using the CC field) and watch the status? Thank, Joachim -- Joachim nomeata Breitner mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Key: 4743206C JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.joachim-breitner.de/ Debian Developer: [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show and discuss at LinuxWorld
Hi Michael Am Mittwoch, den 23.07.2008, 09:49 -0700 schrieb Michael Shiloh: [...] At Linuxworld in two weeks I will have perhaps half a dozen phones at our two booths, and I would love to showcase on each of these one or more of your creations. * Any interesting FR-to-FR apps? * In case we have poor connectivity, apps that don't require GSM/GPRS * In case we have poor Wifi, apps that don't require Wifi I can prepare a version of PyPenNotes that shares a whiteboard using transmission of handwriting via Bluetooth/Wlan. (The App was part of my master thesis and will be released anyway) Which image are you using? Tell me a deadline. Greetings from Berlin Kristian -- /* Web: http://www.mput.de | Tel:+49 (0)170/6692447 * * Blog:http://mput.de/blog | ICQ:93248497* * GPG-ID: 4BBB6525 (..2009) | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * Twitter: kristian_m | MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] */ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 08:23:29AM +0200, Marcus Bauer wrote: On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 01:08 +0200, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller wrote: Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 00:46 +0200 schrieb Marcus Bauer: The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless. Please stop telling these lies. Marcus, did I miss the irony here, or do you really believe this? This is simply a matter of fact, not of believe. FSO is a shitty API collection which is closely connected to ASU. Steve is a sales guy and has not much clue of the underlying software, thus he simply repeats what others told him. The bad combination is NIH (not invented here) together with almightyness thinking which results in all this religion here, making people like you ask whether I believe. I don't believe, I simply know. Part of my current work requires me to use fso daily. It seems strange that what I know seems to be different from what you know. * fso does not force you to ASU or closely connected in any way. could you please elaborate? fso: an open specification dbus interface (freesmartphone.org) + a reference design (frameworkd, check git.freesmartphone.org) fso-image: fso + a reference python UI based on EFL. asu: a enlightenment WM for mobile phone (illume) + qtopia phone stack (not based on fso) + installer (EFL) + diversity (gps app based on EFL) + exposure (config app based on EFL) the only similarity i can tell is EFL in fso-image. but the fso itself does NOT force you to use it, just the implemented reference UI used it. it's easy to do another reference UI with GTK. Why should anyone at Openmoko want to keep out other frameworks, after even putting qtopia to X11? That was mostly Trolltech's work. And apart from that you technically can't keep out any other toolkit because there is Linux below and X on top of it. But FSO combines plenty of different things into one collection of API's and that is how the Microsoft world works and always did and which drove so many developers to Linux. If I use Apache as webserver I can use Konqueror, Opera, Safari or Firefox as browser. However, Microsoft has more than once tried to tie Internet Explorer to IIS, giving it an advantage over other browsers. Same goes for Microsoft Office and Windows. exactly what are tied together here? i see the arguement here is probably 'fso makes anyone that wants to develop on neo has to use this framework', but this is not true. it can make some developers' life easier but you don't have to use it. for example, you can just run the ogpsd subsystem in frameworkd then use phonekit + gsmd to handle gsm if you want. on the other way around, the frameworkd is just a reference design, anyone can take libgsmd + gsmd to make the same interface on dbus. any app on fso will not notice. snipped FSO is the brainchild of Dr. Michael Lauer, fresh from the university's ivory tower but lacking any industry experience. It is reinventing the wheel and drains lots of ressources that are needed elsewhere inside of Openmoko. It combines plenty of things out of which one is a new PIM API based on dbus. This idea alone is worth to be mentioned every day for a year on the dailyWTF website. could you explain why it's a WTF idea to have a PIM API on dbus? It is not about GTK or qt or ETK. It is about getting a working platform out to users and developers. OM2007.2 was mostly there. It reminds me to a joke: Two fools try to escape from a lunatics hospital. There are 100 walls to climb over and so they start: 10, 20, 50, 90, 99. In that moment says the one to the other: 'Lets go back and do the last wall tomorrow'. ...have fun and enjoy life and start looking at the Neo what it is: a tiny Linux computer with a GPS and a GSM modem. There is no sudden revolution going to happen tomorrow. there are technical reasons behind the re-implementation of gsm daemon but I'm not the one to answer it. I think the reason why you are unhappy is that OM moved away from OM2007.2. well, 1. you are obviously not the only one who felt this way. 2. that's a separate issue. since OM will stick with fso in the foreseeable future, I think port OM2007.2 app suites to fso is a logical move. ogpsd is there based on gypsy, and it should be just another backend of tangogps. Freedom is a synonym for choice. The choice for your keyboard, for your window manager, for you applications, last not least for your gsmd. I like this sentence. if most of the functionalities on my neo have a unified dbus interface then i'm happy. honestly i failed to see anything wrong with this. Regards, John FIC/Openmoko came to support Linux on their hardware platform in order to give you this choice. Now it has changed into some religious life-style thingy with phantasies of becoming tomorrows ubiquitious
Re: Not activate WiFi at PowerOn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hi, | | Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 08:54 +0100 schrieb Andy Green: | Somebody in the thread at some point said: | | Hello, | | | | How can I disable WiFi at PowerOn? | | It´s not nice to manually disable it after all Reboot. | | I was staring at this code the other day... we just force it up during | machine init. It's expensive too, 300ms or so wasted on it blocking | startup and the power is subsequently always getting used. | | I will push it into its own powermanagement /sys file like we do bt and | gps for example, but this will break userspace until they start using | the /sys. Still one the dust settles that will be much more sane. | | Are you tracking this with a bug in the tracker somehow, so that one can | subscribe (using the CC field) and watch the status? The patch is done already, here's the ticket -- https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1684 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiO834ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrKFgCfUYkXycb8W026nokr3f+4cDZD dKkAn24DxTwJKqqbhMBs1AnsMHNBdlKi =Npft -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On 29 Jul 2008, at 09:23, Marcus Bauer wrote: ... Openmoko should concentrate on kernel and driver work, power management and working hardware and a basic set of apps. ... +1 As Openmoko push more open hardware out the door, people will come running to do cool stuff on it. It's the blue sky talk of evoking innovation, actualizing contributions and imagination resources that is building excitement about Openmoko and leading to disappointment. Honestly, if Openmoko said the Freerunner is a free, open, Linux- based mobile phone that runs Trolltech's good old Qtopia phone software then people would still be queuing up to buy it. oh, and by the way we're also developing some software of our own and you can try the open alpha if you want to would be better than this building the future sort of stuff - although the latter phrase strictly indicates it's not ready yet, it's far more evocative and emotional. We think we see our dreams *today* - no wonder people are peeved when they're dashed. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
Hi, Scott schrieb: [snip] I was under the impression that OpenMoko is a company about selling a mobile phone not a community Wiki ... Regards Robert signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not activate WiFi at PowerOn
Disable Wifi at boot (cause its on by default) my suggestion is to drop in an `echo 0 /sys/wlan/dev` the exact location? i dunno but here lets findout [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# find /sys |grep power |grep eth0 /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power/wakeup [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# so #current state ? cat /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power #OFF! echo 0 /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power drop the off cmd in a boot script ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Hi, Jay Vaughan schrieb: [snip] This does not work. That is all. As Sean already said. You are only speaking for yourself. I am glad that OpenMoko is not just another half-open half-closed effort that once thought: Oh look Linux. It doesn't cost a dime. Let's make something that is flashy and blinks and develop it as proprietary as we always did. Regards Robert signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia: GPRS
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:39:32PM +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Qtopia runs the /opt/Qtopia/bin/ppp-network script. Ok, now I know where to look. I have fixed a few things I could see, but haven't yet tested: //depot/qtopia/main/devices/ficgta01/src/devtools/scripts/ppp-network#2 (xtext) 24c24 RESOLVCONF=/mnt/user/etc/resolv.conf --- RESOLVCONF=/etc/resolv.conf 68c68,70 mkdir /etc/ppp/peers --- if [ ! -e /etc/ppp/peers ]; then mkdir /etc/ppp/peers fi 100c102 $PPPD $* --- $PPPD $* Just from looking at it: it must be $PPPD $@ http://osr507doc.sco.com/en/OSUserG/_Passing_to_shell_script.html $* will not fix it, the concat of all arguments will be passed as the first and only. Had to look up these things myself again. ;) Ole pgpG9wsRQYf22.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Not activate WiFi at PowerOn
oh my bad i didnt read that correctly , its way past my bedtime anyway Disable Wifi at boot (cause its on by default) my suggestion is to drop in an `echo 0 /sys/wlan/dev` the exact location? i dunno but here lets findout [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# find /sys |grep power |grep eth0 /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power/wakeup [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# so #current state ? cat /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power #OFF! echo 0 /sys/devices/pnp0/00:01/net/eth0/power drop the off cmd in a boot script ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Tuesday 29 July 2008, Marek Lindner wrote: Hi, At the same time we heard comments from a key developer who indicated that the decision was made above him by unnamed individuals with whom the community has no obvious means of communication, and who apparently don't even listen to the reasonable technical arguments of key developers. Openmoko always avoided all kind of formal structures. Thus we don't have such a thing as key or core developer - a developer would be better. Whether the term is 'key developer' or just 'a developer' is irrelevant. The issue is the total lack of communication over removal of a function many in the community, not to mention said developer, have good technical reasons to see as absolutely vital. This also seemed to reveal something about the internals of Openmoko that weren't expected: development decisions are not entirely made by the developers, but instead they answer to some people who the community cannot readily identify and who the community doesn't know how to interact with or if they even can interact with these decision-makers. May be it revealed that Openmoko itself is diverse as well. That some developers have different opinions than others. Diversity of opinion is fine and expected, but we needed to hear what the other opinions were! It was this incident with the keyboard that made several people believe option (2) was not available, and even after Sean's message, I still don't believe that we know the answer. So, I'll ask again: does Openmoko intend to allow direct code contributions by community members to core components of the ASU/FSO frameworks? If so, will such community members also have a voice in underlying design decisions that guide that/those framework(s)? if course you can - that is the whole point of Openmoko. The best way is to implement a solution, offer a package to install and let the people play with it. If your idea is convincing we will include it. I thought that was the whole point too, but your answer seems only to answer one of the two questions. You seem to be saying 'Of course you can submit code, and if we like it we'll use it' but saying nothing about whether the community has a voice in the decision. It would be helpful to know before embarking on implementation whether the idea conflicts with one or more of the unstated ideals by which inclusion may be judged. Openmoko has to trust those members of the community, who prove themselves through actual contributions, to be worthy to give input on larger design issues as well. You got the point ! I think so, but I think the rest of the paragraph, particularly the preceding sentence, was at least as important. Since you snipped it I'm not sure you feel the same way. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
compiling on the freerunner ( coreutils / git )
hi, i am trying to get a low level compiling enviroment onto the freerunner. my problem is, i don't have access to a cross compiling enviroment in the next 3 weeks. so i have to compile everthing directly on the freerunner. I know, it's a bit slow :) . To make the starting easyer i would like to know, if there is a package for the coreutils and the git somewhere out there. I haven't find anything on the lists or the wiki yet. When i try to compile my coreutils(6.9) on my own, i get a utimens.h:2: error: conflicting types for 'futimens' ///usr/include/sys/stat.h:370: error: previous declaration of 'futimens' was here i already have patched it with the coreutils-glibc2.6.patch In the bug tracker it sayed, that the patch is for all coreutil versions. isn't that right and do i have to go down to coreutils 5.3 ? But before i restart with all this does someone have a precompiled version of the coreutils for me? or even better also a package with git? btw : i am using a ASU image, and opkg list doesn't come up with git or coreutils. thx Beni ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Flashing Qtopia using Windows XP SP2.
Hi, I got it done. thanks a lot. Thanks Bijoy - Original Message - From: bijoy franco Sent: 29/07/08 12:10 pm To: support, Openmoko, sparkymat, Ajith, [EMAIL PROTECTED], community, openmoko Subject: Flashing Qtopia using Windows XP SP2. Hi, Thanks a lot to all of you guys for helping on this...especially Ajith and Rakshat I have done following things. 1. Connected Neo to Windows XP SP2 machine 2. Installed neo1972.inf file 3. Assaign IP Address and Subnet mask to the conection 4. Downloaded dfu-util.exe and OpenMokoDFU files 5. Switched off ( Network connection disables.)and Switched on to NOR Boot and Selected Set console t USB 6. But System don't prompt for OpenMokoDFU drivers ( Here at this stage, Network connection disabled.). What would be the reason...Is there any other ways to install OpenMokoDFU Drivers. Thanks Bijoy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
2008/7/29 Marek Lindner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, At the same time we heard comments from a key developer who indicated that the decision was made above him by unnamed individuals with whom the community has no obvious means of communication, and who apparently don't even listen to the reasonable technical arguments of key developers. Openmoko always avoided all kind of formal structures. Thus we don't have such a thing as key or core developer - a developer would be better. But you do have a design team, according to Rasterman. This also seemed to reveal something about the internals of Openmoko that weren't expected: development decisions are not entirely made by the developers, but instead they answer to some people who the community cannot readily identify and who the community doesn't know how to interact with or if they even can interact with these decision-makers. May be it revealed that Openmoko itself is diverse as well. That some developers have different opinions than others. Out of curiosity, how many of these developers use an Openmoko phone as their primary phone? Do these differences of opinion tend to fall on the same boundaries? Still, nobody has mentioned why the design team can't be contacted or identified. Openmoko has to trust those members of the community, who prove themselves through actual contributions, to be worthy to give input on larger design issues as well. You got the point ! Strange, I read this as Openmoko has not been, but should in the future, trust those members I haven't been here long enough to determine which is the case. Maybe the company hasn't, either. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTK in Qtopia
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Cédric Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is there a way to run a GTK application under Qtopia ? Some kind of GTK-Qt bridge... a way for GTK to write to Qtopia framebuffer instead of X ... or X writes to framebuffer ? ... or whole screen control switches from framebuffer to X while this app runs ? Back in the glorious days of Qtopia2 (o zauri, where are thou?), there was an X server running on top of Qt-embedded. I'm pretty sure it stalled since then, but one can give it a try (http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/). BTW, it might have been a quicker way to reach the let's run random X apps aside Qtopia ones goal without porting the whole Qtopia to X11. Just the other way around, I guess. -- OlivierM ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
Hello John, thanks for taking the time for writing your answer. On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 18:38 +0800, John Lee wrote: Part of my current work requires me to use fso daily. It seems strange that what I know seems to be different from what you know. * fso does not force you to ASU or closely connected in any way. could you please elaborate? fso: an open specification dbus interface (freesmartphone.org) + a reference design (frameworkd, check git.freesmartphone.org) fso-image: fso + a reference python UI based on EFL. asu: a enlightenment WM for mobile phone (illume) + qtopia phone stack (not based on fso) + installer (EFL) + diversity (gps app based on EFL) + exposure (config app based on EFL) the only similarity i can tell is EFL in fso-image. but the fso itself does NOT force you to use it, just the implemented reference UI used it. As you note further down, OM is going to stick with FSO. Thus unless OM is developing ASU just for fun, the assumption that it is being ported to FSO seems more than vaild. Please correct me if I'm wrong there. And as you note further down, phonekit needs to be ported, otherwise the dialer and the sms-messages apps wont work any longer. This is not a task one can do in an afternoon. Thus on the long run FSO effectively forces to use ASU. it's easy to do another reference UI with GTK. If Openmoko has taught one thing then the following: easy is nothing. Otherwise people would buy Neo's instead of iPhones now. exactly what are tied together here? gsmd and FSO dbus. The gsmd is the core part of a phone and if that is incompatible to the current OM2007.2 one then dialer and messages stop working. for example, you can just run the ogpsd subsystem in frameworkd then use phonekit + gsmd to handle gsm if you want. Which then will break ASU applications. And this is not how Linux works. I can run Konqueror on GNOME or gimp in KDE or xfce or enlightenment. on the other way around, the frameworkd is just a reference design, anyone can take libgsmd + gsmd to make the same interface on dbus. Again: anyone can take is not true. Anyone can take a couple of transistors and make an iPhone - not. could you explain why it's a WTF idea to have a PIM API on dbus? 1) eds has already been ported to dbus - so FSO is reinventing the wheel 2) the whole world uses libraries at application level because it provides a nice abstraction layer (and so does EDS-dbus). the difference between a bus and a library is similar to a water bottle and a water pipeline in the end the both transport water but they serve different purposes. there are technical reasons behind the re-implementation of gsm daemon but I'm not the one to answer it. the gsmd works well. there is no technical reason. I think the reason why you are unhappy is that OM moved away from OM2007.2. I'm living next to Sophia Antipolis which is the french 'silicon valley' with 1300 companies and 30,000 employees. The common opinion here is that OM shows erratic and unpredictable behaviour which makes it unsuitable for consideration as development platform. That's simply a pity. Unless OM wants to do everything by themselves, they need to care for external developers too in order to set up a working eco system. since OM will stick with fso in the foreseeable future, I think port OM2007.2 app suites to fso is a logical move. If at all I place my bet on GMAE and would not recommend using FSO but sticking with OM2007.2 which will give a much better exit path towards Limo, moblin etc. ogpsd is there based on gypsy, and it should be just another backend of tangogps. ogpsd should just offer the NMEA data on port 2947, thus keeping it nicely network transparent. I'm not going to remove this functionality from tangogps. Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Best regards, Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sound
Sound came back the next wakeup and no problems since. A bonus is the whole FR seems more stable. Thanks, BillK On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 14:51 +0800, W.Kenworthy wrote: It worked for a few times, but has now gone silent. Maybe it will get more stable. BillK On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 20:14 -0700, Scott Petersen wrote: W.Kenworthy wrote: Certainly sounds like the same problem. BillK On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 21:14 -0500, Steven ** wrote: Do you have it set to dim, then lock? In my experience, a suspend kills sound out of the speaker. Making a call seems to restore the sound. Others have found that rebooting (or just restarting X) restores sound. There's a thread on the support list about this. Perhaps you're seeing the same thing. -Steven On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:34 PM, W.Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ive just realised that I have never heard my OM ring, or make a sound when an sms comes in just vibrate. The annoying 'tick' on the keyboard comes and goes (mostly is gone thank goodness :) Is this normal? - shouldnt think so! I had the same issue and found that mwester had a solution has worked for me for a while now. http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html I still have suspend resume issues but this works most of the time. Cheers Scott Petersen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- William Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home in Perth! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Flash ASU
Why do the latest ASU folders not have the kernel or root file system files? Scott signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
I have to agree with Kalle Jay, While i part of me would like to see a nailed down platform with a clear definition of tools, UI standards, platform support, documentation standards(one I've been yelling about recently) I also understand OM's struggle to produce a viable open source product in record time. I hope we can all agree to disagree and take the constructive criticism for what it is, constructive I am heartened by Sean's statement about OM's mission and their determination to get it right. I'm also happy to see this open discussion among knowledgeable people who are in the trenches and getting it done. Rock on Neo! Scott Kalle Happonen wrote: Nkoli wrote: Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying Kalle signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
This does not work. That is all. As Sean already said. You are only speaking for yourself. I am not alone in my view. I am glad that OpenMoko is not just another half-open half-closed effort that once thought: Oh look Linux. It doesn't cost a dime. Let's make something that is flashy and blinks and develop it as proprietary as we always did. I'm glad OpenMoko has as many rabid fanboix as other projects, it means there is hope yet .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia: GPRS
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:24:50PM +1000, Lorn Potter wrote:
Ole Kliemann wrote:
On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:13:05PM +, Ole Kliemann wrote:
I'm trying to send an MMS with Qtopia. I set up GPRS and WAP through the
GUI, but it did not work; the network interface failed to start when
sending. A look into the log shows this:
Jul 27 09:57:37 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: Network : Creating network
session for qtmail on
/home/root/Applications/Network/config/dialupGPRS0.conf
Jul 27 09:57:37 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: Network : starting pppd
(non-demand) : /usr/sbin/pppd nodetach debug call dialup1217032395
password simyo logfile /tmp/qtopia-0/qpe-pppd-log-dialup1217032395 connect
/opt/Qtopia/bin/qtopia-pppd-internal active /home/root/Appl
Jul 27 09:57:37 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: QServiceDeviceBase::run:
could not find a pseudo-tty
Jul 27 09:57:37 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: Network :
QModemDataCall::dial - could not start pppd
Qtopia launches pppd without a device parameter and redirects the modem
device through a pseudo-tty to the stdin/out of the pppd process. Qtopia
assumes BSD-style /dev/pty*, but on my FR I only got /dev/pts.
So I patched it for /dev/pts. Not sure how correct I have done this.
There is similar code in 4.4, I just added it to 4.3
Thanks
I missed something with this patch. The ttyname is used later and was
not returned by createPseudoTty. That explains the garbage in the first
arg when launching pppd.
Funny thing is, a connection worked, although the device was not passed
to pppd. But I really don't understand yet how this whole thing works.
--- src/libraries/qtopiacomm/serial/qserialiodevice.cpp_orig2008-07-29
14:27:05.0 +0200
+++ src/libraries/qtopiacomm/serial/qserialiodevice.cpp 2008-07-29
14:29:21.0 +0200
@@ -249,27 +249,22 @@
#ifdef USE_POSIX_SYSCALLS
// We would like to use openpty, but it isn't in libc on some systems.
-static bool createPseudoTty(int masterFd, int slaveFd, char *ttyname)
+static bool createPseudoTty(int masterFd, int slaveFd, char **ttyname)
{
-static char const firstChars[] = pqrstuvwxyzabcde;
-static char const secondChars[] = 0123456789abcdef;
-const char *first;
-const char *second;
-char ptyname[16];
-for ( first = firstChars; *first != '\0'; ++first ) {
-for ( second = secondChars; *second != '\0'; ++second ) {
-sprintf( ptyname, /dev/pty%c%c, *first, *second );
-sprintf( ttyname, /dev/tty%c%c, *first, *second );
-if ( ( masterFd = ::open( ptyname, O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK, 0 ) ) = 0
) {
-if ( ( slaveFd = ::open( ttyname, O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY, 0 ) )
-= 0 ) {
-return true;
-}
-::close( masterFd );
-}
-}
+masterFd=::open(/dev/ptmx, O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK);
+if (masterFd0)
+return false;
+if (::grantpt(masterFd)0)
+return false;
+if (::unlockpt(masterFd)0)
+return false;
+*ttyname=::ptsname(masterFd);
+slaveFd=::open(*ttyname, O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY);
+if (slaveFd0) {
+::close(masterFd);
+return false;
}
-return false;
+return true;
}
#endif // USE_POSIX_SYSCALLS
@@ -304,8 +299,8 @@
// Create a pseudo-tty to manage communication with the process.
int masterFd = -1;
int slaveFd = -1;
-char slaveName[BUFSIZ];
-if ( !createPseudoTty( masterFd, slaveFd, slaveName ) ) {
+char *slaveName;
+if ( !createPseudoTty( masterFd, slaveFd, slaveName ) ) {
qWarning( QServiceDeviceBase::run: could not find a pseudo-tty );
return 0;
}
pgp8Q2HxwGBDj.pgp
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Re: Openmoko on Design
Charles, While that is a means of bringing the keyboard button back, thats just too damn hard! And I have to do that all over again if I upgrade! Needs to be a simple configuration setting. Scott Charles-Henri Gros wrote: You mean like this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Keyboard_Toggle signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
A phone without usable documentation is a door stop. Scott Robert Schuster wrote: I was under the impression that OpenMoko is a company about selling a mobile phone not a community Wiki ... Regards Robert signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Best regards, Marcus Not to start a flame war but even I would like to know why Openmoko with its scarce resources is developing its own gps software instead of supporting something like Tango GPS that seems to be working so well? Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: compiling on the freerunner ( coreutils / git )
3 weeks. so i have to compile everthing directly on the freerunner. I know, it's a bit slow :) . If you organize your project properly, you won't really be limited by slow compile times .. btw : i am using a ASU image, and opkg list doesn't come up with git or coreutils. As far as I know there are no packages for either tool - you'll have to build them yourself. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jay Vaughan wrote: I'm glad OpenMoko has as many rabid fanboix as other projects, it means there is hope yet .. Usually I am not too much disposed to moderation in a ML, but now I am started to think: In these two days you wrote around 15 email (it is only stimated). Every email was enought long, to explain why Openmoko suck. I think this require some hours hour man-time (let suppose 3-4 h) In 3-4 hours a person can do: To learn a bit how to write an little application for Freerunner (To start you need around 2-3 hour of intensive study, if you have experience in programming) To check 10 pages of the Wiki updating old information Start to know of to make a theme for Openmoko Go out buy a postcard and to send it to Openmoko team that will be happy that someone is thinking to them I am no one to tell to you how to use your time, but I personally thing that continuing to use your time to repeat how many stupid things Openmoko do, and complaining how many fanboy there are, is not the best way to help this project. Then do you what do you think is better! All this in my personal opinion! Michele Renda -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiPIvYACgkQSIAU/I6SkT3eogCfUX7G2mvUJmcg6KH4KOLMWkzi wGoAnRjT9zbvrCXFFEf/q6I7aeRn8qeU =kWjH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
Am Dienstag 29 Juli 2008 15:28:56 schrieb rakshat hooja: Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Best regards, Marcus Not to start a flame war but even I would like to know why Openmoko with its scarce resources is developing its own gps software instead of supporting something like Tango GPS that seems to be working so well? Dear Rakshat, please don't let yourself be fooled by polemics, I know it's hard to resist, but we should lean on to the facts. Fact is: Openmoko is NOT developing its own gps software, in fact we all like Tango GPS a lot. It talks nicely to our opgsd implementation and will be included by default in the FSO milestone2. What we did though was to write a framework subsystem implementing the org.freedesktop.Gypso dbus protcol, enhancing it to support the great U-Blox chip found in the Neo Freerunner devices, enhancing it to hook into the systemwide peripheral resource control, enhancing it to prepare for automatic downloading/uploading almanac and ephemeris to improve warmstart. So, in a nutshell: We provided the necessary middleware (as is the rest of FSO) to make things run better. Of course we will also discuss with upstream about how to improve the gypsy implementation of org.freedesktop.Gypsy. Please see Daniel Willmann's announcement for more details. Cheers, -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia: GPRS
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:39:32PM +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Ole Kliemann wrote: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 07:57:01PM +, Ole Kliemann wrote: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 06:32:18PM +, Ole Kliemann wrote: Jul 28 16:29:29 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: Network : starting pppd (non-demand) : /usr/sbin/pppd nodetach debug call dialup1217032395 password simyo logfile /tmp/qtopia-0/qpe-pppd-log-dialup1217032395 connect /opt/Qtopia/bin/qtopia-pppd-internal active /home/root/Appl Jul 28 16:29:29 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: Network : Call state: 2 Jul 28 16:29:29 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: Network : Data state: DataCall started dataInactive Jul 28 16:29:29 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: /usr/sbin/pppd: unrecognized option ' Jul 28 16:29:29 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: ' Jul 28 18:29:29 om-gta02 daemon.err pppd[2905]: unrecognized option ' ' Problem is that Qtopia launches pppd with garbage in the first arg and without properly quoting. I made a blunt workaround using a shell script. Still that wasn't all... not yet sure what the next problem is. Ok. The script was completely broken. I didn't notice. :/ GPRS was really working one time now. But after disconnecting again things are broken: Jul 28 21:37:39 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: AtChat : F : Bn×ÿÿÚ)ðy~~ÿ^C!E4¶@:^FËWÔ^Wa Jul 28 21:37:39 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: AtChat : F : }^º^SظÔ5b^E+ Jul 28 21:37:39 om-gta02 user.notice Qtopia: AtChat : F : *^Q1²^A^A^H Sure doesn't look healthy... There is also one pts still open, seems like things don't get cleaned up properly. Qtopia runs the /opt/Qtopia/bin/ppp-network script. But only for setting DNS and default gateway, at least on my system. pppd is not run from ppp-network. And setting DNS is not done correctly. The script is supposed to be called: ppp-network install dns NAMESERVER1 NAMESERVER2 It then writes NAMESERVER1 and NAMESERVER2 into /etc/ppp/resolv.conf and links that file to /etc/resolv.conf. But ppp-network is called only with `install dns' not specifying any servers thus /etc/ppp/resolv.conf is not even created. pppd itself writes nameservers into /var/run/ppp/resolv.conf. So a workaround for this is to link /var/run/ppp/resolv.conf to /etc/ppp/resolv.conf. This is the one problem; not so big. Big problem is that after first connection with GPRS, I cannot make any phone calls anymore. Restarting qpe fixes this. After some more connections with GPRS, GPRS itself cannot connect anymore, phone calls not working. Restarting qpe does not help, UI shows `No Network'. Modem seems to be dead. Only reboot helps. Maybe I should wait for 4.4 ... ;) Ole pgp53usPrUki0.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out without documentation. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A phone without usable documentation is a door stop. Scott Robert Schuster wrote: I was under the impression that OpenMoko is a company about selling a mobile phone not a community Wiki ... Regards Robert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Anyone got a confirmation by pulster?
Hi, pulster got new phones on 25.07. Has anyone of those who already paid for the phone got a message that their phone is already sent to them? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone got a confirmation by pulster?
Unfortunately not, I am still waiting. christian Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 16:32 +0200 schrieb kazaam: Hi, pulster got new phones on 25.07. Has anyone of those who already paid for the phone got a message that their phone is already sent to them? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- mfg/br, christian weßel Flurstraße 14 29640 Schneverdingen E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Telefon: +49 5193 97 14 95 Mobile: +49 171 357 59 57 http://wesselch.homelinux.org signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
rakshat hooja wrote: Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Best regards, Marcus Not to start a flame war but even I would like to know why Openmoko with its scarce resources is developing its own gps software instead of supporting something like Tango GPS that seems to be working so well? Well, i like tangoGPS very much. But it is hardly a comprehensive solution. First it's only a tile viewer for online maps. No routing, no offline maps. (no, caching tiles for the world is not a solution) And if gpsd is so great, ever wondered why tangoGPS has a button to restart and reconnect gpsd? And why i (gta01 user) have to launch gllin via tangoGPS? tangoGPS and OM2007.2 is hardly a comprehensive solution either. (Yes, it's called being polemic and it is the essence of all good discusions) I too think the OM2007.2 stack is great. And i like to stick with it, at least until ASU matured much much more. And here a sack full of my 2 cents: gypsy - yes gpsd - no (at least not as it is, maybe as compat interface) gsmd - no fso - yes eds - yes efl - yes Illume - maybe OM2007.2 apps - yes Qtopia - no -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
Steven ** wrote: A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out without documentation. Then your co-workers should get iPhones! I thought OpenMoko was for those of us who would embrace a machine with a learning-curve for extra capability. Probably the same crowd who uses Linux on the desktop. Kind of like the decision process that one goes through when choosing between, say, Linux and. Mac OS X for a particular user's desktop in a particular work-environment. Exactly like that, actually. -Luke P.S. I've been using Linux on my desktop nonstop since about 1998 and, despite all of the (and my), winging on listservs and on Slashdot, only two things have changed: * All of the platforms have gotten better. Much better. * The interoperability between platforms has gotten better. Provided that you can influence the choices that the server and the client make, anyway. (You might have to choose Zimbra over Exchange, for instance.) With the interoperability being so much improved, there's really no reason to evangelize platforms anymore -- at least if your server-admins will play ball and choose applications/protocols that are widely supported. So, just use what you like and let your co-workers do the same. If everyone talks the same protocols, there's no reason for any platform or application to be all things to all people -- the compromises required to do that is one of the reasons I rarely choose Microsoft products for my own use. Just make it good -- and don't worry about the rest. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
mark a missed call as seen
is there any way to mark a missed call as seen? for example on my old phone, if i got a missed call, i would get notification on the main screen, and then hitting a button would take me to the list of missed calls, and the phone would acknowledge i looked at the calls, and it would stop counting those towards totals for the next missed call. with the freerunner, if i get a missed call, it goes into the call log as missed, and then keeps adding on to that count. if i miss 2 calls, click the you missed 2 calls thing, and then later miss 1 call, it will say i missed 3 calls at that point instead of saying i missed 1. the only work around i have been able to find is to manually delete all my missed calls, which isn't ideal. anything obvious i've overlooked? -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/mark-a-missed-call-as-seen-tp640037p640037.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out without documentation. -Steven If you were to flash it with QTopia it would very nearly qualify. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
I am no one to tell to you how to use your time, but I personally thing that continuing to use your time to repeat how many stupid things Openmoko do, and complaining how many fanboy there are, is not the best way to help this project. Then do you what do you think is better! I don't think rabid fanboix'ism is going to help the situation. There *are* negatives to whats going on with OpenMoko; perhaps you don't see them because you haven't been attempting to write applications for the platform, as I have for a year now. Certainly, unless there is pressure to address the faults in current strategy which are making it /so/ /very/ /hard/ for 3rd-party developers to ramp up to productivity in promoting, and using, the OpenMoko platform, then it won't happen. OpenMoko *need* to know that there is dissatisfaction in the ranks with the way they are dealing with these issues - I'm only one of about 15 people who have shared the same views as me, and I'm vocal about it because *I care*; sycophants and dilettantes are not going to make it easy for them to see they are turning developers away, and making it difficult to get behind the platform in a big way. I do believe we can build a great product with OpenMoko. I just want to make sure that the OM community realises that there are issues at hand which *must* be addressed if we want to make it as big as we all desire. Certainly the current fractious nature of the distribution, the feature regression and creeping bugs are not making it easier. Something must change. All this in my personal opinion! Thanks for sharing it in a manner we are all entitled, since this is an Open project. And thank you to all those people who have shared their opinions with me privately. If any of you wish to continue to voice an opinion about Jay Vaughan and how much time he is wasting, please feel free to do so - privately, off-list. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
debian on freerunner: gsmd?
reagrding debian on freerunner -- is there a way to access the gsm modem, ie to make/recieve calls, send/recieve sms and use gprs? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Luke Scharf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Then your co-workers should get iPhones! I thought OpenMoko was for those of us who would embrace a machine with a learning-curve for extra capability. Probably the same crowd who uses Linux on the desktop. snip I read some time ago on one of the the Openmoko sites that OM/FICA needs or wants to sell 10 millions Neo's in 2008. I wanted to include a link for reference but can't find one. I think my point that they need to sell a lot of phones is still valid. I'm not flaming anyone. Just pointing out my opinion that just selling to nerds would be a good way to kill a device that needs, IMO, large numbers to be sustainable. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 15:46 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Am Dienstag 29 Juli 2008 15:28:56 schrieb rakshat hooja: Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. Not to start a flame war but even I would like to know why Openmoko with its scarce resources is developing its own gps software instead of supporting something like Tango GPS that seems to be working so well? Dear Rakshat, please don't let yourself be fooled by polemics, I know it's hard to resist, but we should lean on to the facts. Fact is: Openmoko is NOT developing its own gps software Dear Dr. Michael Lauer, four hours ago (10:38 GMT) John Lee from Openmoko wrote: asu [is]: + diversity (gps app based on EFL) And from the blog of OM employee Holger Freyter: Certainly not the least application we are going to develop in our GForge is diversity. This application is combining GPS, [..] with OpenStreetmap to find your way[...] A quick search on Google tells that Wendy from Openmoko is writing test reports about diversity / splinter. If you look at: http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/?root=diversity you will see that the last checkin was *four hours* (!) ago by an OM employee. Stating that Openmoko is NOT developing its own gps software is an impertinent and blunt lie. Dear Rakshat, please don't let yourself be fooled by lies, I know it's hard to resist, but we should lean on to the facts. Fact is: Openmoko IS developing its own gps software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from tangogps. Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Marcus, these two statements appear to contradict each other. Can you confirm you will continue to work on tangoGPS? In my opinion so far tangoGPS is the best and most mature application which I've got to run the Freerunner. It would be a great shame for the project to loose your leadership. I tried the ASU yesterday, roughly following what has now been written up in the flash ASU thread earlier today and as that thread details it's broken at the moment. I plan to stick with 2007.2 until one clear standard distribution is available and is kept in a reasonably stable state. Tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mark a missed call as seen
On Tuesday 29 July 2008, reaper527 wrote: is there any way to mark a missed call as seen? for example on my old phone, if i got a missed call, i would get notification on the main screen, and then hitting a button would take me to the list of missed calls, and the phone would acknowledge i looked at the calls, and it would stop counting those towards totals for the next missed call. with the freerunner, if i get a missed call, it goes into the call log as missed, and then keeps adding on to that count. if i miss 2 calls, click the you missed 2 calls thing, and then later miss 1 call, it will say i missed 3 calls at that point instead of saying i missed 1. the only work around i have been able to find is to manually delete all my missed calls, which isn't ideal. anything obvious i've overlooked? I've seen the same thing, and deleting the missed calls is the only thing that's worked for me. I should have checked for bug reports I suppose, or better yet dug out the source and patched it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone got a confirmation by pulster?
kazaam schrieb: Hi, pulster got new phones on 25.07. Has anyone of those who already paid for the phone got a message that their phone is already sent to them? hi, here not :( christian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone got a confirmation by pulster?
On Tuesday 29 July 2008, Christian Weßel wrote: Unfortunately not, I am still waiting. A friend of mine got a message (as a reply) basically saying: Due to bad weather in Taiwan (all offices closed) the delivery of the phones is behind schedule. Cheers, Florian -- DI Florian Hackenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hackenberger.at ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
You misunderstand. A PHONE should need no documentation. The Neo is more than a phone. So, some features may need some documentation. But the phone part of it should just work. But really, I'm having trouble thinking of a feature I would use regularly that would be acceptable to require documentation. I hope I would only need documentation if I'm actually in the code making changes. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Luke Scharf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven ** wrote: A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out without documentation. Then your co-workers should get iPhones! I thought OpenMoko was for those of us who would embrace a machine with a learning-curve for extra capability. Probably the same crowd who uses Linux on the desktop. Kind of like the decision process that one goes through when choosing between, say, Linux and. Mac OS X for a particular user's desktop in a particular work-environment. Exactly like that, actually. -Luke ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
Just to let you know: I really like Tango GPS. On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Tim Coggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from tangogps. Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Marcus, these two statements appear to contradict each other. Can you confirm you will continue to work on tangoGPS? In my opinion so far tangoGPS is the best and most mature application which I've got to run the Freerunner. It would be a great shame for the project to loose your leadership. I tried the ASU yesterday, roughly following what has now been written up in the flash ASU thread earlier today and as that thread details it's broken at the moment. I plan to stick with 2007.2 until one clear standard distribution is available and is kept in a reasonably stable state. Tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
Maybe you are not happy because you think it's just a phone. To me it's a complete programmable handheld computer which happens to have a GSM phone feature. The phone is a fairly insignificant feature for some of us. If all you want is a phone, go to the supermarket, they have really nice ones there that don't come with any significant documentation. I use one myself. I am trying to develop GPS software for the OM. I have had about 15 minutes a day to work on it so far but it's been fun. I don't really care (much) about navigation features, I care about data collection. The competition is not TangoGPS or Garmin or Tom-Tom or anything OM is likely to come out with. Therefore documentation is vitally important to me. Incidentally I borrowed a friend's T-Mobile SIM card and tried the phone feature yesterday. It worked fine (including the documentation). Brian On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out without documentation. -Steven ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
Start with the software fix. It should slove the problem. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Annie Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:01 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue what impact, if any, will there be on the warranty of the FR device once the fix has been carried out ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
AW: Re: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down
I`ve done this with a samsung handy (sorry, it was not ericsson), exactly with the SGH-D600. The battery was the standard, here the S/N: NH1YB02CS/-5 and some other infos; TYPE: 3.7V. Li-ion Model: BST4389BE It`s a battery integrated in the cover (see attachment) Marco Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 16.07.2008 18:36 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED], List for Openmoko community discussioncommunity@lists.openmoko.org Betreff: Re: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down Glad it helped, and thanks for the feedback. Can you please send me the part number of your ericson battery, for reference? Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I`ve done a jump start with a ericsson-battery, which have the same Volt. Now my FR has started up and the battery is charging :-) Thanks again for the tip! Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 13.07.2008 17:16 An: List for Openmoko community discussioncommunity@lists.openmoko.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kopie: Michael Shiloh[EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down If your battery falls below a certain level then FreeRunner sometimes will not charge it. We are working on fixes for this but in the short term you have these options. 1. Jump start your battery. Michael will explain how, Takes 5 seconds. 2. Get a stand alone battery charger from Nokia ( for battery types 4bl, 5bl, 6bl) 3. Get a replacement battery. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arne anka Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down while surfing the device-owners list i've stumbled over this: Sometimes it happened (I think to all of us! ;) ) that NEO1973's battery goesfully discharged, and for this I follow the instruction on the wiki pages(detach battery 20 seconds, attach to USB, wait 1 hour, start the Phone). anyway -- the guy posting this seemed to have killed his battery (not finished the thread yet). regarding you usb-only: maybe your usb port does not supply 500mAh? btw: your leds flash? mine do nothing -- is this related to the asu image? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community attachment: Samsung-Battery.jpg___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 88, Issue 164
I am using the phone for daily use and do not have problems with placing or receiving calls, nor sending or receiving SMS messages. Charles On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, david pais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is this phone usable for daily light phone use (about 30-60 min/ day) or have the audio problems not been solved? --- On Sun, 7/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: community Digest, Vol 88, Issue 164 To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, July 20, 2008, 3:45 PM Send community mailing list submissions to community@lists.openmoko.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of community digest...Today's Topics: 1. Re: Import Contacts (Roland Mas) 2. Re: Special Letters? (doron) 3. Re: Another Question - Kernel Headers (Andy Green) 4. RE: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down (steve) 5. Re: Another Question - Kernel Headers (Joseph Reeves) 6. RE: Can you help the Openmoko booth at Linuxworld, August 4-7,in SanFrancisco? (steve) 7. Re: USB connector not Mini-AB? (Tobias Diedrich) 8. Re: Import Contacts (Jeffrey Ratcliffe) 9. Re: Another Question - Kernel Headers (arne anka)Jeffrey Ratcliffe, 2008-07-20 20:13:29 +0200 : I have the same problem, and additionally, the dump option runs without error, but also without output. I just tried again, and I managed to get these symptoms when running the script too soon after a boot. The second run went on fine. Maybe something needs the daemon to be started, and it's not started initially... Roland. -- Roland Mas Au royaume des aveugles, il y a des borgnes à ne pas dépasser. -- in Soeur Marie-Thérèse des Batignolles (Maëster)Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:18:37 +0200 Roland Mas [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: arne anka, 2008-07-20 16:01:34 +0200 : sadly enough i currently have no clue what causes the lack of anything non-ascii, would have expected he fr to be unicode driven. I think it is Unicode driven. My contacts have some non-ascii characters in their names, and they display just fine. I guess the problem is mostly the input method. in ASU (not in current .dev build though, but in SVN for illume) the keyboard layout is customisable via a config file and can produce any keystroke that x is capable of (so it can produce ä, ó, ñ, ø etc.) but i don't have a layout that has every one of these in it currently, but it's a simple text file to put in a directory (.kbd file). for now it has 3 layouts, simply letters-only qwerty, numeric that covers the other keys (numbers, symbols) and a few accented chars, and a full qwerty layout (ok it is missing F1-F12, Pause/Break and PrtSc/SysRq but ... if u really want u can try cram them in somehow...). i will add anther key layout for intl chars (accented ones etc.). in the end i imagine people might do custom layouts for a language (eg german would only have ä, ö, ü and ß). romainian some other set, danish another set. etc. nice simple text files for everyone to enjoy :) this should allo for a greek and russian layout too, katakana/hragana, hangul, thai, ... anything really. but right now right-to-left languages wont work (well) (arabic/farsi/hebrew). unfortunatly that is really near the bottom of my list... I am using the 2007.2 ( and the qtopia image, from SD card) image and I am using Hebrew in my FreeRunner (include right - to -left) read and write. in the qtopia image I can read Hebrew SMS massages (right-to- left) but I didn't try to change / re-map the keyboard to Hebrew . works fine for me. - doron ---BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian | | ? Awesome, nobody ever mentioned this marvel... got to give this a try tonight! - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiDjNAACgkQOjLpvpq7dMp4/gCeM/40ALY08hufey5LF5CeGV07 a2AAn0BqoYaYGL+mGjh62tYdp2KPGUxz =IVTe -END PGP SIGNATURE-Ya jOERG, Micheal jump started my battery in about 2 seconds. It was a Young Frankenstein momement! Without the sparks or pretty assistents. Anyways, my reanimated battery still works fine. Anecdotal I know.
WG: Re: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down
I`ve done this with a samsung handy (sorry, it was not ericsson), exactly with the SGH-D600. The battery was the standard, here the S/N: NH1YB02CS/-5 and some other infos; TYPE: 3.7V. Li-ion Model: BST4389BE It`s a battery integrated in the cover (see attachment) Marco Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 16.07.2008 18:36 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED], List for Openmoko community discussioncommunity@lists.openmoko.org Betreff: Re: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down Glad it helped, and thanks for the feedback. Can you please send me the part number of your ericson battery, for reference? Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I`ve done a jump start with a ericsson-battery, which have the same Volt. Now my FR has started up and the battery is charging :-) Thanks again for the tip! Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 13.07.2008 17:16 An: List for Openmoko community discussioncommunity@lists.openmoko.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kopie: Michael Shiloh[EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down If your battery falls below a certain level then FreeRunner sometimes will not charge it. We are working on fixes for this but in the short term you have these options. 1. Jump start your battery. Michael will explain how, Takes 5 seconds. 2. Get a stand alone battery charger from Nokia ( for battery types 4bl, 5bl, 6bl) 3. Get a replacement battery. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arne anka Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down while surfing the device-owners list i've stumbled over this: Sometimes it happened (I think to all of us! ;) ) that NEO1973's battery goesfully discharged, and for this I follow the instruction on the wiki pages(detach battery 20 seconds, attach to USB, wait 1 hour, start the Phone). anyway -- the guy posting this seemed to have killed his battery (not finished the thread yet). regarding you usb-only: maybe your usb port does not supply 500mAh? btw: your leds flash? mine do nothing -- is this related to the asu image? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community attachment: Samsung-Battery.jpg___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: update to quickstart user guide adds known issue section
There is no need to decide between the two. To each his own. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 3:47 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: update to quickstart user guide adds known issue section Olivier Berger wrote: Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/ SNIP Comments, questions, and suggestions welcomed. Hadn't heard of that document before... I was referred to the wiki by the notice in the box of the FR, so I expect to have reference docs there... so yes, duplication seems bad to me, otherwise I'd expect that doc to be referred to from the Getting started page of the wiki. Just my 2 cents. And excellent two cents they are. Once the wiki is cleaned up there will be no need for my quickstart guide. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sound
On Jul 29, 2008, at 2:33 PM, William Kenworthy wrote: I had the same issue and found that mwester had a solution has worked for me for a while now. http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html I still have suspend resume issues but this works most of the time. Sound came back the next wakeup and no problems since. A bonus is the whole FR seems more stable. Unfortunately there's no GPS/SD fix in this kernel: uImage_2008_07_16_gta02_73eeb0333fc771cb696ff9bf17c517c741434b59.bin I can't get fix since installed this kernel. But suspend / resume works great :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
Okay -- I see your perspective and I agree but I think people are calling it a phone because that's a convenient handle. For my 10 minute test yesterday it worked just like a phone. I dialed, it connected. It rang, I answered. Another 10 minutes and I'd probably know how to answer on the first try! I might even get my own SIM now. Sharp learning curves are always bad even for geeks. I have a pile of GPS devices that need pretty extensive documentation. For day to day use I get by but if I put one in a box for a couple months I have to have the docs to refresh my memory. Garmin has a new touch screen device now. The UI on my eTrex Vista is well-thought out and implemented especially as a follow-on to having already learned on their earlier eMap. I can usually figure things out without docs. I wonder how they did on the new one. Topic topic??? -- oh right -- the Wiki -- one of these days I will try to work more on the Wiki. I have several of my own and I know how rambling and disconnected they can become. My 2 cents is -- OM should work hard to try to make the text search feature work better (then tell me how they did it). I have used MediaWiki for several years and its built-in text search sucks. Finding an alternative (SwishE or whatever) would be a big step in the right direction but organizing the data is also vital (and quite difficult). If I figure out the magic Mediawiki search silver bullet first then I will share it with OM. Brian On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You misunderstand. A PHONE should need no documentation. The Neo is more than a phone. So, some features may need some documentation. But the phone part of it should just work. But really, I'm having trouble thinking of a feature I would use regularly that would be acceptable to require documentation. I hope I would only need documentation if I'm actually in the code making changes. -Steven ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Which ATT data plans are compatible?
I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640134.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtopia] email application connection to mail server
Cédric Berger wrote: Does it work for some of you ? Well... I can't neither find where I can configure my email! :o -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone got a confirmation by pulster?
I got a message from Christoph on 24th confirming the arrival of the Neos, an another one on 25 saying tha he is working on our delivery scheduling it on monday 28th but waiting for tracking number yet. be patience ;) El mar, 29-07-2008 a las 16:32 +0200, kazaam escribió: Hi, pulster got new phones on 25.07. Has anyone of those who already paid for the phone got a message that their phone is already sent to them? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
Please see Daniel Willmann's announcement for more details. Cheers, -- :M: Thanks for the reply and my apologies if I mis-understood something/ got the facts wrong . I will wait for Daniel Willmann's announcement. @Marcus - My main job is to sell the Neo ( I work for a distributor) and tangoGPS is the application that impresses my clients (and me) the most (even though we hardly have OSM data for India!). I would love to see it continue to be developed. (Offline maps is something that people have asked me about also. If you have some suggestions about making that possible using OSM data and I am sure you will find a lot of community support to make that happen) Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU updated - qpe not working?
Torfinn Ingolfsen schrieb: But qpe still crashes / fails: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ps ax | grep qpe 1346 ?S 0:00 /usr/bin/app-restarter The qpe process vanished. This is bad.?This is not meant to happen and is likely a sign of?a bug in Qtopia. Please try to reproduce it and?report the issue to http://docs.openmoko.org.??To be able to use your phone as a phone again you?will have to restart Qtopia.? qpe 1349 ?Sl 0:44 qpe 1548 pts/0S+ 0:00 grep qpe [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# Any ideas what I should do now? /usr/bin/app-restarter is a programm that looks after the qpe process one line under it. if this process dies out of reason. (try killall qpe) the app-restarter shows you in the x-screen the message you see in the ps -ax comand. and asks you if you want to restart it. so the message you see in the ps -ax is not an error. it is the parameter the programm app-restarter was given by the start. it's a litle bit confusing. i also needed my time to work this out. it would be less confusing if the programm would get the message out of a file and not from the parameter. But it's ok if you know it. Beni ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtopia] email application connection to mail server
I have just submitted this problem for qtopia bug tracker... (not accepted yet) On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 18:11, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cédric Berger wrote: Does it work for some of you ? Well... I can't neither find where I can configure my email! :o -- in qtopia mail application ? as I remember go to mails, option (menu at bottom) and something like set accounts you may have to choose new account then for mail account you have 2 tabs, one for checking mails (IMAP/POP), second for sending (SMTP) but I do not have qtopia under my eyes, so I can't be precise... :-p ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
Am Dienstag 29 Juli 2008 18:19:32 schrieb rakshat hooja: Please see Daniel Willmann's announcement for more details. Cheers, -- :M: Thanks for the reply and my apologies if I mis-understood something/ got the facts wrong . I will wait for Daniel Willmann's announcement. It has been sent some days ago, on the -devel list though (where this whole thread should belong to anyways). Please see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/000324.html -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko on Design
On Tuesday, 29. July 2008 19:19:10 Al Johnson wrote: Whether the term is 'key developer' or just 'a developer' is irrelevant. The issue is the total lack of communication over removal of a function many in the community, not to mention said developer, have good technical reasons to see as absolutely vital. Unfortunately, this tiny difference is important because it sounded like Even THE key developer (and god knows who else) objected and still you did it!. Diversity of opinion is fine and expected, but we needed to hear what the other opinions were! True, and you did hear it. I thought that was the whole point too, but your answer seems only to answer one of the two questions. You seem to be saying 'Of course you can submit code, and if we like it we'll use it' but saying nothing about whether the community has a voice in the decision. It would be helpful to know before embarking on implementation whether the idea conflicts with one or more of the unstated ideals by which inclusion may be judged. You should realize that we (Openmoko) are vastly outnumbered by the tasks on our ToDo list and the mails we have to process. For us it is very hard to grep out the genius and doable ideas - it is just too much ! But if you can provide a working prototype of your idea you can be sure that we seriously look at it. We simply install it, play with it and eventually get infected by it. In the end we are geeks as well and like to see cool stuff. :-) I think so, but I think the rest of the paragraph, particularly the preceding sentence, was at least as important. Since you snipped it I'm not sure you feel the same way. Do you mean that sentence: we are paid by openmoko to do what we are told to do by the design department and that is what we then do. If that's the state of things for paid developers, then community contributors have even less hope. Again, this is the statement from a single developer - I _definitely_ don't agree with that. This is simply not the way it is. Honestly, I have never seen a company that gives so much freedom to its employees. Sometimes I even have the feeling this is more a democracy instead of a business here. :-) Marek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld
On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 16:26 +0100, Tim Coggins wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from tangogps. Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it. Marcus, these two statements appear to contradict each other. Can you confirm you will continue to work on tangoGPS? tangoGPS does run on many other platforms too, i.e. eeePC, your Desktop (Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, Gentooo...). Alpha, amd64, hppa, ia64, powerpc, mipsel, s390, sparc, freeBSD-386/amd64... ;-) So yes, I'm continuing to work on it. What I meant is that OM develops their own GPS app (splotter/density) and once it works well and it is installed by default people will simply go and use it. Such is life and I'm aware of it. Last not least density is the brainchild of Steve ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and he is quite proud of it. Thus there will be funding for ongoing development. In my opinion so far tangoGPS is the best and most mature application which I've got to run the Freerunner. It would be a great shame for the project to loose your leadership. Thanks for your remarks. I'll do my best to live up to it. Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)
On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 21:49 +0530, rakshat hooja wrote: @Marcus - My main job is to sell the Neo ( I work for a distributor) and tangoGPS is the application that impresses my clients (and me) the most (even though we hardly have OSM data for India!). I would love to see it continue to be developed. Development will go on and as long as I have a Neo it will run on it too. And I don't intend to sell my Neo ;-) (Offline maps is something that people have asked me about also. If you have some suggestions about making that possible using OSM data and I am sure you will find a lot of community support to make that happen) Offline maps are supported. Make sure you have a recent version of tangoGPS installed and change the directory where the maps are stored to some permanent place. Up to 0.9.2 this is by default /tmp and thus maps get deleted on reboot. You can pre-cache areas from the context menu when clicking on the map, last item map download. Hope that helps, regards, Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sound
Pawel Kowalak wrote: On Jul 29, 2008, at 2:33 PM, William Kenworthy wrote: I had the same issue and found that mwester had a solution has worked for me for a while now. http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html I still have suspend resume issues but this works most of the time. Sound came back the next wakeup and no problems since. A bonus is the whole FR seems more stable. Unfortunately there's no GPS/SD fix in this kernel: uImage_2008_07_16_gta02_73eeb0333fc771cb696ff9bf17c517c741434b59.bin I can't get fix since installed this kernel. But suspend / resume works great :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Speaking of suspend/resume, I'm also wondering if other people are having battery problems? Whenever I wake my FR up from suspend, my battery seems practically dead (or a lot lower than it was) even if it only resumed for ~1 hr. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their opinion. But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the $30/month for unlimited data just yet. -id Dimitri wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone got a confirmation by pulster?
David Samblas schrieb: I got a message from Christoph on 24th confirming the arrival of the Neos, an another one on 25 saying tha he is working on our delivery scheduling it on monday 28th but waiting for tracking number yet. be patience ;) El mar, 29-07-2008 a las 16:32 +0200, kazaam escribió: Hi, pulster got new phones on 25.07. Has anyone of those who already paid for the phone got a message that their phone is already sent to them? Hi, I mailed christoph(@pulster) and asked for the status of my order. I quickly got a reply, that it will be shipped this week; i transferred my money on 14/07. Hope it get's here soon :-) Bye, Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
My understanding is that it's marketing BS and there isn't much (if any) difference between those unlimited data plans. The difference seems to be what ATT is willing to sell you. If you have a crappy old phone, they'll sell you a cheap data plan because they figure you won't use it. If you have a smartphone, they figure you might actually be able to and want to browse the web and therefore charge you more. What I'm thinking of trying is taking my old, crappy flip-phone into the store when asking about data plans. That should get me the cheap plan. Then just pop the SIM card back into my Neo. I'm betting I'll have full internet. Worst case scenario: I'll have to tunnel everything through port 80. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640134.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
