Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: in fact there is a lot of closed linux devices out there , for example routers,motorola phones, ebook reader... and those doesn't mean Linux is closed, It only means that if they don't publish the code, and that's usual, they are violating the GPL. http://gpl-violations.org/ Not necessarily. They don't have to provide any mechanism to re-flash the device, then the linux based device is just as closed, even when they publish the source. GPL does not protect against this (v3 might, not sure). Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: The problem with Android is not the license of the OS, but the ecosystem around it. Closed hardware, DRMd content (applications, music), the restrictions imposed on the OS by cell companies... it's a nightmare, and the freedom of the user doesn't even appear in the horizon. It's BSD style FOSS. Anyone can do what they like with it. The fact that others can close their versions doesn't detract from that. If you want to argue that it loses flexibility as a platfor, when you're using a self- or community-compiled version, then sure. Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: I have strong feelings against Android, for the restrictions around it are very similar to those of the iPhone, though Apple doesn't try to disguise themselves as open source paladins. No, they really aren't. You can download and install stuff from outside the approved store on commercial android handsets and on free/open ones ones (Android on FR) you have full control, including the full source under APL2. You just try getting the source from Apple and running it somewhere else. Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: Android, as a platform (not an OS, not a device) is worst than closed, for it lures developers with the false concept of an open environment. Yes, just like the entire BSD operating system! It's a trap! *facepalm* Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: Yes, people could fork and create gAndroid but where would they run it? It's a wolf with a lamb skin, Why fork when you can port? There are several places doing just that and re-submitting upstream when they have good results. It's being ported to some nokia devices, netbooks, FR etc. And why is it a wolf in lambs skin? I mean, what the hell are you talking about at this point? Where would they run what? Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: And my last rant. Why did they create yet another isolated platform? For f*cks sake! It's not even standard java! At least Objective-C builds on top of C! Couldn't they create a set of libraries? Or use if they wanted portability use Python? Argh! My 2 cents Java is the most popular language on the planet right now, more people know it than know pretty much anything else going. Attracting developers is essential to the success of the platform. Why *not* use java? I use python myself, and I like it, but I don't see why choosing java was wrong. Frankly, I think you're nuts. A big corp puts a lot of work in and releases a whole new userspace environment targeted at MIDs, phones etc, under one of the least restrictive licenses out there, and you're calling it worse than closed source! You're weird! You instinctively decide to hate it due to some features you don't like (which are aimed at supporting proprietary apps, and you're free to disable in your version, or just not use those apps). There's nothing stopping people from releasing android apps as FOSS. personally I really like the idea of paying for apps from an app store if I choose to, or using/writing free ones if I don't. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-OT--Is-Android-really-free--%28was-Re%3A-root-almighty%29-tp2943035p2952092.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
I should also add that at least in the short term I would expect that being able to run android applications on FR is going to give me a far wider choice of mobile-friendly software than any of the true linux distros available for FR. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-OT--Is-Android-really-free--%28was-Re%3A-root-almighty%29-tp2943035p2952101.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
No, they really aren't. You can download and install stuff from outside the approved store on commercial android handsets Hello, is it true that Google can uninstall an app not approved by themselves (that is, an app not included in the 'Android Market')? I understand the app would be uninstalled when the user visits a Google shop or accesses a Google service? Regards, Juan Lucas De: community-boun...@lists.openmoko.org en nombre de Gothnet Enviado el: jue 21/05/2009 15:53 Para: community@lists.openmoko.org Asunto: Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty) Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: in fact there is a lot of closed linux devices out there , for example routers,motorola phones, ebook reader... and those doesn't mean Linux is closed, It only means that if they don't publish the code, and that's usual, they are violating the GPL. http://gpl-violations.org/ Not necessarily. They don't have to provide any mechanism to re-flash the device, then the linux based device is just as closed, even when they publish the source. GPL does not protect against this (v3 might, not sure). Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: The problem with Android is not the license of the OS, but the ecosystem around it. Closed hardware, DRMd content (applications, music), the restrictions imposed on the OS by cell companies... it's a nightmare, and the freedom of the user doesn't even appear in the horizon. It's BSD style FOSS. Anyone can do what they like with it. The fact that others can close their versions doesn't detract from that. If you want to argue that it loses flexibility as a platfor, when you're using a self- or community-compiled version, then sure. Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: I have strong feelings against Android, for the restrictions around it are very similar to those of the iPhone, though Apple doesn't try to disguise themselves as open source paladins. No, they really aren't. You can download and install stuff from outside the approved store on commercial android handsets and on free/open ones ones (Android on FR) you have full control, including the full source under APL2. You just try getting the source from Apple and running it somewhere else. Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: Android, as a platform (not an OS, not a device) is worst than closed, for it lures developers with the false concept of an open environment. Yes, just like the entire BSD operating system! It's a trap! *facepalm* Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: Yes, people could fork and create gAndroid but where would they run it? It's a wolf with a lamb skin, Why fork when you can port? There are several places doing just that and re-submitting upstream when they have good results. It's being ported to some nokia devices, netbooks, FR etc. And why is it a wolf in lambs skin? I mean, what the hell are you talking about at this point? Where would they run what? Ignacio Torres Masdeu wrote: And my last rant. Why did they create yet another isolated platform? For f*cks sake! It's not even standard java! At least Objective-C builds on top of C! Couldn't they create a set of libraries? Or use if they wanted portability use Python? Argh! My 2 cents Java is the most popular language on the planet right now, more people know it than know pretty much anything else going. Attracting developers is essential to the success of the platform. Why *not* use java
RE: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
jldominguez wrote: Hello, is it true that Google can uninstall an app not approved by themselves (that is, an app not included in the 'Android Market')? I understand the app would be uninstalled when the user visits a Google shop or accesses a Google service? It's not true that any non-approved app would be uninstalled as soon as the user visits the market, that's a little bit too Apple-ish. The App store is not the only place that you can get software. However there does seem to be a kill switch that would enable google to disable specific applications. IMHO this is another good reason to run it on FR instead of G1 or other closed handset though, as this capability can be discovered and disabled in the source tree. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-OT--Is-Android-really-free--%28was-Re%3A-root-almighty%29-tp2943035p295.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
You instinctively decide to hate it due to some features you don't like (which are aimed at supporting proprietary apps, and you're free to disable in your version, or just not use those apps). There's nothing stopping people from releasing android apps as FOSS. personally I really like the idea of paying for apps from an app store if I choose to, or using/writing free ones if I don't. There is something stopping people from contributing: make: *** No rule to make target `run-java-tool', needed by `out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/droiddoc_intermediates/javalib.jar'. Stop. what should I do? PS: I've some java warnings etc...I hope it's not the fault of icedtea/openjdk Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
GNUtoo wrote: There is something stopping people from contributing: make: *** No rule to make target `run-java-tool', needed by `out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/droiddoc_intermediates/javalib.jar'. Stop. what should I do? PS: I've some java warnings etc...I hope it's not the fault of icedtea/openjdk I'm not familiar with that particular situation, though someone on the just posted some generic build instructions, which might be useful so I'll repost it - Marcelo wrote: Go to: http://git.koolu.org/ Follow the instructions there to checkout the code. Go to http://trac.koolu.org/ and follow the rest of the instructions. Basically: $ mkdir -p ~/bin $ curl http://android.git.kernel.org/repo ~/bin/repo $ chmod a+x ~/bin/repo $ mkdir ~/mydroid $ cd ~/mydroid $ repo init -u git://git.koolu.org/freerunner/platform/manifest.git -b koolu-1.0 $ repo sync $ make TARGET_PRODUCT=freerunner replace koolu-1.0 by whatever branch you wish to work on (look at the git repo to find out which ones are available) Since you need that TARGET_PRODUCT variable always, I find it better to do this: $ cat buildspec.mk TARGET_PRODUCT := freerunner ^D $ make If you wish to switch a branch, do $ repo init -b new_branch $ repo sync (and likely rm -rf out) Marcelo -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-OT--Is-Android-really-free--%28was-Re%3A-root-almighty%29-tp2943035p2953292.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[OT] Is Android really free? (was Re: root almighty)
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 00:43, David Reyes Samblas Martinez da...@tuxbrain.com wrote: in fact there is a lot of closed linux devices out there , for example routers,motorola phones, ebook reader... and those doesn't mean Linux is closed, It only means that if they don't publish the code, and that's usual, they are violating the GPL. http://gpl-violations.org/ The problem with Android is not the license of the OS, but the ecosystem around it. Closed hardware, DRMd content (applications, music), the restrictions imposed on the OS by cell companies... it's a nightmare, and the freedom of the user doesn't even appear in the horizon. I have strong feelings against Android, for the restrictions around it are very similar to those of the iPhone, though Apple doesn't try to disguise themselves as open source paladins. Android, as a platform (not an OS, not a device) is worst than closed, for it lures developers with the false concept of an open environment. Yes, people could fork and create gAndroid but where would they run it? It's a wolf with a lamb skin, And my last rant. Why did they create yet another isolated platform? For f*cks sake! It's not even standard java! At least Objective-C builds on top of C! Couldn't they create a set of libraries? Or use if they wanted portability use Python? Argh! My 2 cents -- Ignacio Torres Masdeu http://ignacio.torresmasdeu.name/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
