Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
Hi martin (2015.01.21_21:31:55_+0200) I would prefer if we had an actual package, but a pseudo one will do fine for now. While it would be good to have summit in Debian, of course, you would also want to have a place to track DebConf-specific issues. +1 to the BTS, and yes, a summit.debconf.org pseudo-package sounds like what we'd want. Running entirely from a packaged summit is probably a long way off, if even possible. SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ +1 415 683 3272 ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:31 PM, martin f krafft madd...@debconf.org wrote: also sprach Richard Hartmann richih.mailingl...@gmail.com [2015-01-21 20:27 +0100]: I propose we use a psuedo-package in the BTS for summit isues. The BTS already exists and is a central piece of Debian culture, so it seems to me it would be a good fit. I would prefer if we had an actual package, but a pseudo one will do fine for now. While it would be good to have summit in Debian, of course, you would also want to have a place to track DebConf-specific issues. Just to be clear, that if we are talking about using BTS to track feature requests and changes to Summit, I see no major issues, and would defer to those working on Summit. If we are looking beyond that, (e.g. sponsorship lead tracking), BTS would likely be suboptimal. -Brian ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DC15 - Event submission form
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 12:39:12AM -0500, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote: On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 08:44:38PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach René Mayorga rmayo...@debian.org.sv [2015-01-20 19:50 +0100]: 1) Title ... 7) Notes to Content team (New requested type) What about the list of presenters/organisers? Do you mean the list that an event proposer/creator gets to choose from to select Participants? I recall some were concerned about this exposing the list of attendees. Indeed, that is why we marked this field as Remove: 6) Participants list ( remove ) If we disable it in the propose_event form, I guess events with multiple speakers/organizers/whatever would require intervention by someone with special summit perms. Ack, normally there are not many talk with multiple presenters, we -as content team- may be able to manage this when is requested. Cheers -- René signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 07:56:31PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com [2015-01-21 19:18 +0100]: Honestly, I don't think we need a team discussion. This should be the infrastructure team's decision just like upstream choses the BTS/issue tracker for their software. I certainly don't disagree. But, -infra don't have our own mailing list and it was suggested to me (by bremner, i think?) that I point to some public evidence of team consensus when sending the request to the BTS admins. I wasn't sure the request would be accepted coming from me as a non-DD who's not really known in Debian outside of debconf-team. That said, I think the proposal is sane and would rather see it done sooner than later, unless of course there are good arguments against it. Thanks for weighing in. -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
also sprach Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com [2015-01-21 19:18 +0100]: I propose to wait 1 week for discussion. If there is consensus that this is a good idea I'll take the action item to request the psuedo-package from the BTS admins, pointing to this thread as rationale and evidence of team support. If there is no response or significant disagreement, I suggest it be added to the 2015-02-02 meeting agenda. Honestly, I don't think we need a team discussion. This should be the infrastructure team's decision just like upstream choses the BTS/issue tracker for their software. That said, I think the proposal is sane and would rather see it done sooner than later, unless of course there are good arguments against it. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town or Montreal? https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com wrote: I propose we use a psuedo-package in the BTS for summit isues. The BTS already exists and is a central piece of Debian culture, so it seems to me it would be a good fit. I would prefer if we had an actual package, but a pseudo one will do fine for now. Martin attempted to start a discussion[1] about a general solution for all of DebConf to replace rt. But, it didn't progress, yet. If there are suggestions for a general solution, please respond to that thread. I still don't think that scales, especially for sponsorship. I propose to wait 1 week for discussion. If there is consensus that this is a good idea I'll take the action item to request the psuedo-package from the BTS admins, pointing to this thread as rationale and evidence of team support. If there is no response or significant disagreement, I suggest it be added to the 2015-02-02 meeting agenda. With my infra team lead hat on, I would say we don't even need to wait a full week. As you say, this should not be very controversial and I would want to move sooner rather than later. Thanks for picking this up again, Richard ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
[Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
I propose we use a psuedo-package in the BTS for summit isues. The BTS already exists and is a central piece of Debian culture, so it seems to me it would be a good fit. I find it confusing and difficult to use the wiki[0] to track bugs and development requests for summit. Determining who made a particular request in order to contact them for more information is cumbersome, at best. It's also non-optimal for tracking discussion of a given issue. For development requests, it's not clear if something is just a random idea or annoyance someone had in a particular moment or something that a given subteam has discussed, reached consensus about and signed off on. For these reasons and more, I think we need a real ticketing system for Summit. Martin attempted to start a discussion[1] about a general solution for all of DebConf to replace rt. But, it didn't progress, yet. If there are suggestions for a general solution, please respond to that thread. I've discussed the BTS idea with a number of people on irc several times. I don't recall opposition and there were a number of people positive about the idea. I don't recall anyone wanting to try to use rt for this. I do recall several people definitely _not_ wanting to use the alioth tracker. Probably not everyone who might care was present at those times and my memory is definitely fallible. So, please, discuss. I propose to wait 1 week for discussion. If there is consensus that this is a good idea I'll take the action item to request the psuedo-package from the BTS admins, pointing to this thread as rationale and evidence of team support. If there is no response or significant disagreement, I suggest it be added to the 2015-02-02 meeting agenda. Thanks for reading, edrz [0] https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Summit#TODO [1] http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20141216.211326.9c02fa68.en.html ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
also sprach Richard Hartmann richih.mailingl...@gmail.com [2015-01-21 20:27 +0100]: I propose we use a psuedo-package in the BTS for summit isues. The BTS already exists and is a central piece of Debian culture, so it seems to me it would be a good fit. I would prefer if we had an actual package, but a pseudo one will do fine for now. While it would be good to have summit in Debian, of course, you would also want to have a place to track DebConf-specific issues. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town or Montreal? https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 08:27:23PM +0100, Richard Hartmann wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com wrote: I propose we use a psuedo-package in the BTS for summit isues. The BTS already exists and is a central piece of Debian culture, so it seems to me it would be a good fit. I would prefer if we had an actual package, but a pseudo one will do fine for now. Oh. right. I had asked about that last year. Vorlon, i think it was, said something like packaging web aps is fraught with peril. So I let it go then. What packaging skills I had are very rusty, so I'm not sure I know what he meant. But, in principle, I agree if it can be done that it would be worthwhile to have summit and all the dependencies packaged in debian. I would even like to work on that. But, probably not right now given our more pressing needs. It's something to file a bug about, perhaps. ;) Martin attempted to start a discussion[1] about a general solution for all of DebConf to replace rt. But, it didn't progress, yet. If there are suggestions for a general solution, please respond to that thread. I still don't think that scales, especially for sponsorship. He mentioned that, particularly for sponsorship, some things need to be kept confidential. I'm only talking about summit right now. I propose to wait 1 week for discussion. If there is consensus that this is a good idea I'll take the action item to request the psuedo-package from the BTS admins, pointing to this thread as rationale and evidence of team support. If there is no response or significant disagreement, I suggest it be added to the 2015-02-02 meeting agenda. With my infra team lead hat on, I would say we don't even need to wait a full week. As you say, this should not be very controversial and I would want to move sooner rather than later. Thanks for picking this up again, Richard Certainly. I'm only sorry I didn't get to it sooner. Thanks for your response. -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DC15 - Sprints during DebCamp (and DebConf)
David Bremner da...@tethera.net writes: Tiago Bortoletto Vaz ti...@debian.org writes: Fine then. Can we have a word from bursaries team on this? Thanks, The bursaries team has not yet been formally constituted, so can't really make policy pronouncements. A group of us are in the process of putting together some general rules for how decisions are made [0,1]. We haven't discussed DebCamp specifically yet, but since our goal is to have a consistent set of rules from year to year (and hence need some generality), it seems unlikely that we would mention sprints specifically. So a good work plan, is a good work plan, regardless of the structure it is contained in. On the other hand, I think it is reasonable to discuss whether collaboration is a necessary part of a debcamp plan. My reading of Marga's mail is that she feels it is. I certainly see the point that people don't _need_ to be at debcamp to work on a project alone. On the other hand, extapolating from my own experience, I'm sure there is plenty of individual work on Debian that happens because people are at debcamp, that would not otherwise happen. I think this is very important. Going to DebCamp and reserving this time exclusively for Debian is very different from just doing some Debian work in ones free time. And I at least (and I guess many others) would not just allocate the same time to Debian work if it were not for DebCamp. This is independant from wheter I work on my own on these things or with a team or in the context of a sprint. To me this seems like a very important aspect of DebCamp that should not be lost. To me even a work plan to just bring all their packages back in to good shape and update them to the latest best practices would be totally fine. As far as people's concerns about people not making productive use of their time at debcamp or debconf, I think one point that we did have strong concensus on is that we want what did you accomplish at previous debcamp / debconf to play an important role in the evaluation process [2] If that's really a concern, then this seems like the better approach to me than moving towards a team work only/mostly event. But at least during the DebCamps I attended I did not see this as a major problem. Gaudenz signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DC15 - Event submission form
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 09:56:04PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach René Mayorga rmayo...@debian.org.sv [2015-01-20 21:31 +0100]: What about the list of presenters/organisers? Currently the submitter of the event is the drafter(owner) of the event, we need to make sure if summit can handle multiple owners for one talk, a field for this can be included, but also there are not too much events with multiple owners, then if it is supported we can also add the rest of the owners from the admin interface? During DC14 we modified summit so that it displays the list of people in required_attendees as Speakers: . This automatically includes the drafter. Others can be declared required via the admin. (There might also be one or more forms outside the admin, but I'm not immediately remembering which.) -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DC15 - Event submission form
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 09:56:04PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach René Mayorga rmayo...@debian.org.sv [2015-01-20 21:31 +0100]: What about the list of presenters/organisers? Currently the submitter of the event is the drafter(owner) of the event, we need to make sure if summit can handle multiple owners for one talk, a field for this can be included, but also there are not too much events with multiple owners, then if it is supported we can also add the rest of the owners from the admin interface? Right, this should be a 1:∞ relation and with Django it should not be hard to hack this up quickly for the event owner to control themselves. That would seem to require presenting the owner with the list of attendees from which to choose. Since it's been requested that we remove that field from the propose_event form, doesn't it follow that we ought not expose it elsewhere? -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Using the BTS as a summit issue tracker
Hi Brian, On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 02:57:13PM -0500, Brian Gupta wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:31 PM, martin f krafft madd...@debconf.org wrote: also sprach Richard Hartmann richih.mailingl...@gmail.com [2015-01-21 20:27 +0100]: I propose we use a psuedo-package in the BTS for summit isues. The BTS already exists and is a central piece of Debian culture, so it seems to me it would be a good fit. I would prefer if we had an actual package, but a pseudo one will do fine for now. While it would be good to have summit in Debian, of course, you would also want to have a place to track DebConf-specific issues. Just to be clear, that if we are talking about using BTS to track feature requests and changes to Summit, I see no major issues, and would defer to those working on Summit. If we are looking beyond that, (e.g. sponsorship lead tracking), BTS would likely be suboptimal. Right. I'm only talking here about tracking issues regarding summit development. -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Food costs for externals
also sprach Giacomo Catenazzi c...@debian.org [2015-01-21 10:03 +0100]: And the mail thread went about sponsored people. The original topic was DC15 - Prices and deals for non-sponsored attendees, so *non-sponsored* attendees. Oh, the food for non-sponsored (i.e. self-paying) attendees who stay at the venue is included in the daily fee of 32,90 € or however much we end up charging them. Moreover, for every lunchdinner not consumed, we save 5 € iff we let them know a week in advance. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town or Montreal? https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DC15 - Event submission form
also sprach Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com [2015-01-21 06:27 +0100]: To my thinking, ad-hoc is not an attribute of an event, but of the combination of time slot and room into which it might be scheduled. In summit-speak, I think we should make a new Ad-hoc type of a Slot. It is probably possible to make it so that such slot/room combinations aren't available for scheduling until we want them to be. i.e. 24 hours in advance, or whatever time limit content team decides. Ack. Please compare to Self-scheduling in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Summit#DC15_wishlist -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town or Montreal? https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DC15 - Event submission form
also sprach Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com [2015-01-21 06:39 +0100]: Do you mean the list that an event proposer/creator gets to choose from to select Participants? I recall some were concerned about this exposing the list of attendees. How about letting others sign up for events and then the owner ack them? That's basically just another SQL table, nothing more. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town or Montreal? https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Food costs for externals
On 20.01.2015 19:31, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Giacomo Catenazzi c...@debian.org [2015-01-19 16:04 +0100]: - We need the lunch and dinner costs for non-hosted attendees. Each meal will be about 7€. Just for the record, I am not much in favour for catering to externals. The youth hostel has a high standard and we would like an integrative conference. If John Doe thinks he's too good for a hostel bed, then he can pay us e.g. 25 € or so per day for food. IMHO it is good to have an high price (lunch and dinner) for external (and possibly only a combined price). But it is a fact that some people want to lodge externally (company pay, with family, just preference, etc.). IMHO by having lunch and dinner together, also for external, could help the integrative parts. So, IMHO, we should propose it, but we must not think it too much. I think something simple: pre-booked, 20 EUR per day (lunch and dinner) [no exception for conference dinner, daytrip, etc.] And the mail thread went about sponsored people. The original topic was DC15 - Prices and deals for non-sponsored attendees, so *non-sponsored* attendees. We discussed in meeting about sponsored attendees without accommodation: there are exceptions (local locals), but we keep them as exceptions. ciao cate ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
