Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
Jonathan McCrohan jmccro...@gmail.com writes: I certainly don't plan on uploading and abandoning this package, but given the high level of opposition to this ITP, guess there is little point pursuing it. There's some whining by the usual sorts, but why would anyone pay attention to them...? -miles -- Bacchus, n. A convenient deity invented by the ancients as an excuse for getting drunk. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/buosjhs27ci@dhlpc061.dev.necel.com
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
Jonathan McCrohan wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Jonathan McCrohan jmccro...@gmail.com * Package name: nyancat Version : 0.1 Upstream Author : Kevin Lange k...@dakko.us * URL : http://miku.acm.uiuc.edu/ * License : NCSA Programming Lang: C Description : Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation Nyancat is an animated, color, ANSI-text telnet server that renders a loop of the classic Nyan Cat animation. Nyancat can also be run as a standalone program in a local terminal if telnet functionality is not required. And what value does this bring to Debian? -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com You can't barbecue lettuce! -- Ellie Crane -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/e1s2lbv-0006rq...@mail.einval.com
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
In the humorless jerks complaining department: On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 01:23:15AM +, Jonathan McCrohan wrote: * Package name: nyancat * URL : http://miku.acm.uiuc.edu/ Nyancat is an animated, color, ANSI-text telnet server that renders a loop of the classic Nyan Cat animation. Nyancat can also be run as a standalone program in a local terminal if telnet functionality is not required. Is this worth including in Debian? It's funny for several microfortnights, but how many people really need to install this? Debian already has 35 thousand binary packages. Do we really need to package everything? Even a tiny software toy brings a bit of burden to the entire project: it needs to be built on every architecture, Packages files grow (and they need to be processed by every Debian computer), translators need to translate the description, etc. If we package this, are we to package every programmatic implementation of every Internet meme out there? What about IOCCC winners? What about love letters expressed in C? tl;dr: I don't think we should have this in Debian. Sorry. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
* Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi, 2012-02-28, 12:58: Nyancat is an animated, color, ANSI-text telnet server that renders a loop of the classic Nyan Cat animation. Nyancat can also be run as a standalone program in a local terminal if telnet functionality is not required. Is this worth including in Debian? It's funny for several microfortnights, but how many people really need to install this? Completely agreed. We should not accept any new packages in section games and then proceed to remove all the existing ones. Debian already has 35 thousand binary packages. Do we really need to package everything? Even a tiny software toy brings a bit of burden to the entire project: it needs to be built on every architecture, Packages files grow (and they need to be processed by every Debian computer), translators need to translate the description, etc. New translations increase amount of data you have to download every day. Ban translations! -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120228130803.ga8...@jwilk.net
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
On 28/02/12 09:08 AM, Jakub Wilk wrote: * Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi, 2012-02-28, 12:58: Is this worth including in Debian? It's funny for several microfortnights, but how many people really need to install this? Completely agreed. We should not accept any new packages in section games and then proceed to remove all the existing ones. Just the ones with user populations of zero. Anyone can enjoy the animation by telnetting to the public address. How many people without telnet access are going to miss this if not included in Debian? Debian already has 35 thousand binary packages. Do we really need to package everything? Even a tiny software toy brings a bit of burden to the entire project: ... translators need to translate the description, etc. New translations increase amount of data you have to download every day. Ban translations! Having trouble comprehending how the translators having to translate nyancat's description places a burden on the project? Ben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f4cda4d.6000...@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
I suggest a compromise. Include the nyancat program into the existing robotfindskitten package. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 11:52 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Jonathan McCrohan wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Jonathan McCrohan jmccro...@gmail.com * Package name: nyancat Version : 0.1 Upstream Author : Kevin Lange k...@dakko.us * URL : http://miku.acm.uiuc.edu/ * License : NCSA Programming Lang: C Description : Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation Nyancat is an animated, color, ANSI-text telnet server that renders a loop of the classic Nyan Cat animation. Nyancat can also be run as a standalone program in a local terminal if telnet functionality is not required. And what value does this bring to Debian? Are such amusements only permitted as Easter eggs now? (apt-get moo?) Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Q. Which is the greater problem in the world today, ignorance or apathy? A. I don't know and I couldn't care less. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 04:05:12PM +, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 11:52 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Jonathan McCrohan wrote: Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Jonathan McCrohan jmccro...@gmail.com * Package name: nyancat Version : 0.1 Upstream Author : Kevin Lange k...@dakko.us * URL : http://miku.acm.uiuc.edu/ * License : NCSA Programming Lang: C Description : Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation Nyancat is an animated, color, ANSI-text telnet server that renders a loop of the classic Nyan Cat animation. Nyancat can also be run as a standalone program in a local terminal if telnet functionality is not required. And what value does this bring to Debian? Are such amusements only permitted as Easter eggs now? (apt-get moo?) I've just done lots of QA work tracking down build failures while bootstrapping a new architecture, typically in pet packages that have gone largely unmaintained after a small number of uploads. That experience makes me leery of accepting yet more crap into Debian in the first place, especially joke-of-the-week stuff like this. nyancat will stay alive elsewhere on the net for anybody who cares, we don't need it. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com I can't ever sleep on planes ... call it irrational if you like, but I'm afraid I'll miss my stop -- Vivek Dasmohapatra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120228162033.gb26...@einval.com
Do we really need to package everything? (was: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation)
Le 28/02/2012 09:44, Ben Armstrong a écrit : * Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi, 2012-02-28, 12:58: Debian already has 35 thousand binary packages. Do we really need to package everything? Even a tiny software toy brings a bit of burden to the entire project: ... translators need to translate the description, etc. Having trouble comprehending how the translators having to translate nyancat's description places a burden on the project? Are you arguing that translators are not part of the project? In “etc.”, you can also count the infrastructure, the ftpmasters, the security team, and many more. See also Steve's answer 20120228162033.gb26...@einval.com. Regards David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
* Ben Armstrong sy...@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca, 2012-02-28, 09:44: Debian already has 35 thousand binary packages. Do we really need to package everything? Even a tiny software toy brings a bit of burden to the entire project: ... translators need to translate the description, etc. New translations increase amount of data you have to download every day. Ban translations! Having trouble comprehending how the translators having to translate nyancat's description places a burden on the project? I have no idea how did you infer that from my words, but yes, I have trouble comprehending this. Are translators held in a labor camp and forced to translate descriptions of every single package? I thought that they are volunteers, and that they translate stuff because it's fun for them. -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120228192217.ga5...@jwilk.net
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
* Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com, 2012-02-28, 16:20: I've just done lots of QA work tracking down build failures while bootstrapping a new architecture, typically in pet packages that have gone largely unmaintained after a small number of uploads. Out of curiosity, why are pet packages important for bootstraping a new architecture? -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120228192531.ga5...@jwilk.net
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 08:25:31PM +0100, Jakub Wilk wrote: * Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com, 2012-02-28, 16:20: I've just done lots of QA work tracking down build failures while bootstrapping a new architecture, typically in pet packages that have gone largely unmaintained after a small number of uploads. Out of curiosity, why are pet packages important for bootstraping a new architecture? All build failures have to be investigated and it will take non-zero time to discover that such a package is not very important. Also, release qualification for architectures http://release.debian.org/wheezy/arch_policy.html requires building the vast majority of the archive (suggested borderline is 98%). Ben. -- Ben Hutchings We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking. - Albert Camus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120228201603.gm12...@decadent.org.uk
Are translations useful? (was: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation)
Le 28/02/2012 15:22, Jakub Wilk a écrit : Are translators held in a labor camp and forced to translate descriptions of every single package? I thought that they are volunteers, and that they translate stuff because it's fun for them. I thought translations were useful for our users, and that translators who are working on descriptions were trying to improve the efficiency of our package management tools and offer our users the ability to choose a package in a language they can understand. Translators look closely to descriptions and are able to spot errors: fixing those errors also improve the quality for all our English speaking users. So no, “translators [are not] held in a labor camp”, but undervaluing their work (“because it's fun for them”) seems rude, at least. We were able to release Squeeze with an installation system fully available in 70 languages. The debconf templates are also heavily translated, and we should be able to release Wheezy with all packages fully installable in 7 languages [1]. Offering a translated descriptions for all our packages is currently not an option [2], but I can only value the work of translators you are working to improve this status. 1: http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po-debconf/rank 2: http://ddtp.debian.net/stats/stats-wheezy.html Regards David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
Humm. I didn't expect that this ITP would generate so much discussion. :-/ On 28/02/12 16:20, Steve McIntyre wrote: On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 04:05:12PM +, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 11:52 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: And what value does this bring to Debian? Are such amusements only permitted as Easter eggs now? (apt-get moo?) I would consider this package much the same as sl, xfishtank, cowsay or cmatrix. They all provide something mildly amusing or fun. Developers are not the target audience and are unlikely to install them, but the packages seem relatively popular with users. Popcorn notes over 4500 combined installations of those 4 packages, 3 of which have an upward installation trend so I guess someone must be using them. I've just done lots of QA work tracking down build failures while bootstrapping a new architecture, typically in pet packages that have gone largely unmaintained after a small number of uploads. That experience makes me leery of accepting yet more crap into Debian in the first place, especially joke-of-the-week stuff like this. nyancat will stay alive elsewhere on the net for anybody who cares, we don't need it. I certainly don't plan on uploading and abandoning this package, but given the high level of opposition to this ITP, guess there is little point pursuing it. Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f4d6386.7040...@gmail.com
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
Le Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 08:16:03PM +, Ben Hutchings a écrit : On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 08:25:31PM +0100, Jakub Wilk wrote: * Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com, 2012-02-28, 16:20: I've just done lots of QA work tracking down build failures while bootstrapping a new architecture, typically in pet packages that have gone largely unmaintained after a small number of uploads. Out of curiosity, why are pet packages important for bootstraping a new architecture? All build failures have to be investigated and it will take non-zero time to discover that such a package is not very important. Also, release qualification for architectures http://release.debian.org/wheezy/arch_policy.html requires building the vast majority of the archive (suggested borderline is 98%). One think that strikes me when I see people with iPhones is that they have a lot of fun with applications which purpose is to make people laugh and share a good moment. I am not sure that this computer would have had the same success without its application store. In Debian, we treat all packages equally and having fun places a high burden on our infrastructure. It does not fit well applications that are enjoyable but disposable. iPhone 5 will not be delayed if a couple of gag programs can not upgraded. Couldn't we keep a place in our namespace and our mirrors for such programs, in a section where best effort is the rule ? I do understand it is not that easy; security comes to mind immediately. But this is exactly where these application stores have their value: they go through a filter that is operated by the maker of the operating system, which the users trust. Have a nice day, -- Charles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120229000732.gg27...@falafel.plessy.net
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Charles Plessy wrote: if a couple of gag programs can not upgraded. Couldn't we keep a place in our namespace and our mirrors for such programs, in a section where best effort is the rule ? I do understand it is not that easy; security comes to mind immediately. But this is exactly where these application stores have their value: they go through a filter that is operated by the maker of the operating system, which the users trust. I think you want a repository on Launchpad's PPA system or on your own website; packages that are explicitly expected to poorly maintained should not be added to the Debian archive. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caktje6f5ce6hnx9y8-6q7dzea20wn_igjzusdorbv8msncp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Jonathan McCrohan wrote: I certainly don't plan on uploading and abandoning this package, but given the high level of opposition to this ITP, guess there is little point pursuing it. I would suggest joining the Debian games team, we might sponsor this, since fun, sillyness and art have value to computer users too. I've personally considered packaging OpenMooCow; an app that makes a moo sound when you move your phone around: http://www.bitwiz.org.uk/s/openmoocow.html -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caktje6h36yep0nztfl02fleqdsgbmeweaquwryg5mdfjolr...@mail.gmail.com
Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Jonathan McCrohan jmccro...@gmail.com * Package name: nyancat Version : 0.1 Upstream Author : Kevin Lange k...@dakko.us * URL : http://miku.acm.uiuc.edu/ * License : NCSA Programming Lang: C Description : Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation Nyancat is an animated, color, ANSI-text telnet server that renders a loop of the classic Nyan Cat animation. Nyancat can also be run as a standalone program in a local terminal if telnet functionality is not required. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120228012315.10899.14478.report...@lambda.dereenigne.org
