Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Gary Dale]

On 06/12/15 05:34 PM, Tim Folger wrote:

Hi,

I'm running debian testing, with kde version 4.14.2, Given some of the
problems I've seen posted on this list, I've been hesitating to upgrade to
Plasma 5. What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe to
upgrade?

Thanks for any input.

Tim


My two cents worth:
- Plasma 5 seems to basically be working.
- Dolphin crashes frequently but no longer generates tens of zombie 
processes in use, so call that a tie.

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Tim Folger]

On Monday 07 December 2015 8:28:31 AM Robert van den Berg wrote:
> It is working fine for me. Even my final issue with SDDM is gone, probably
> due to the updated NVIDIA drivers.
> 
> Big thank you to the team!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Robert
> 
> On Dec 6, 2015 11:34 PM, "Tim Folger"  wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm running debian testing, with kde version 4.14.2, Given some of the
> > problems I've seen posted on this list, I've been hesitating to upgrade to
> > Plasma 5. What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally
> > safe to
> > upgrade?
> > 
> > Thanks for any input.
> > 
> > Tim

I just wanted to post a short follow-up: After some hesitation, I dist-
upgraded my laptop and desktop today to kde 4.14.14. Everything is working 
smoothly, and some things that weren't working before--searches in dolphin, 
for example--now work. I also installed the plasma-systray-legacy package so I 
could use hplip and skype. Overall, I think plasma 5 looks very elegant. 
Thanks, debian kde team!

Tim

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Freitag, 11. Dezember 2015, 08:15:09 CET schrieb Dominique Dumont:
> On Thursday 10 December 2015 23:42:34 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Yeah. I think Debian Qt/KDE team can need help with that. Lisandro may be
> > working on it, but it overloaded with other work already.
> 
> I understand. I almost jumped in to help, but then I remembered that I still
> have trouble following up cme and licensecheck dev, perl6 packaging and
> misc mentoring...

Thing is Digikam comes with a ton of bundled libraries. I think upstream tries 
to reduce the amount of the bundled libraries, but from what I heard currently 
its quite a challenge to package.

Thanks,
-- 
Martin

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Dominique Dumont]

On Thursday 10 December 2015 10:16:03 Tim Folger wrote:
> Do you happen to use Network Manager? 

Yes. The plasma thingy for network manager works fine, I use it without issues 
with wired internet, wireless and vpn.

All the best
-- 
 https://github.com/dod38fr/   -o- http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/
http://ddumont.wordpress.com/  -o-   irc: dod at irc.debian.org

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Tim Folger]

On Thursday 10 December 2015 6:19:12 PM Javier Juan Albarracín wrote:
> El Jueves, 10 de diciembre de 2015 10:16:03 Tim Folger escribió:
> > On Thursday 10 December 2015 9:03:33 AM Dominique Dumont wrote:
> > > On Sunday 06 December 2015 15:34:59 you wrote:
> > > > What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe to
> > > > upgrade?
> > > 
> > > I use plasma5 from sid on a desktop and a laptop.
> > > 
> > > This is fairly stable now and usable.
> > > 
> > > Suspend and resume now work most of the time. This point was hugely
> > > improved in the last weeks.
> > > 
> > > I still have some issues when switching on and off an external screen
> > > (the
> > > laptop is 1920x1080 and the screen is 1920x1200).
> > > When the external screen is switched off, the layout is readjusted for
> > > the
> > > smaller screen, but the bottom menu bar is lost until I switch the
> > > external
> > > screen back on (or restart sddm).
> > > 
> > > Currently, the major pain point for me is the missing digikam..
> > > 
> > > Hope this helps
> > 
> > Thanks, Dominique. That's good to know. Do you happen to use Network
> > Manager? I started using it for the first time on my new laptop running
> > debian testing and kde 4.14.2, and it has been working really well. For
> > years I had been configuring my wireless settings in
> > /etc/network/interfaces. Network Manager makes things much easier. I'm
> > hoping it would still work if I upgrade to Plasma 5.
> > 
> > Tim
> 
> Yes, it works. You should edit the file
> /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf and set to true the "managed" line:
> 
> [main]
> plugins=ifupdown,keyfile
> 
> [ifupdown]
> managed=true
> 
> 
> Javier

Excellent. Thanks, Javier. I think I'll try upgrading my laptop. if that goes 
well I'll upgrade my desktop too.

Tim

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Dominique Dumont]

On Sunday 06 December 2015 15:34:59 you wrote:
> What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe to 
> upgrade?

I use plasma5 from sid on a desktop and a laptop. 

This is fairly stable now and usable.

Suspend and resume now work most of the time. This point was hugely improved 
in the last weeks.

I still have some issues when switching on and off an external screen (the 
laptop is 1920x1080 and the screen is 1920x1200).
When the external screen is switched off, the layout is readjusted for the 
smaller screen, but the bottom menu bar is lost until I switch the external 
screen back on (or restart sddm).

Currently, the major pain point for me is the missing digikam..

Hope this helps

-- 
 https://github.com/dod38fr/   -o- http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/
http://ddumont.wordpress.com/  -o-   irc: dod at irc.debian.org

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Mittwoch, 9. Dezember 2015, 17:56:33 CET schrieb Marc Haber:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 06:56:45PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> > Marc Haber:
> > > On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> > >> However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work
> > >> on
> > >> the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
> > > a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
> > > is idling away in the lock screen.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Hmmm!  I normally put my computer to sleep or hibernate for the night, so
> > I
> > haven't seen this -- ick.  I wouldn't like to find that.
> 
> Actually, the current behavior is a 100 % improvement over August's
> state of KDE plasma 5 when it was still a complete crash, needing a
> remote login+ kill X to get the machine back after it was left idling
> over night.
> 
> I have not dared to suspend the machine since the KDE Plasma 5 update
> since if the current system doesn't even survive a night of idling,
> how could it possibly survive a suspend+resume cycle?

martin@merkaba:~> uptime
 23:34:54 up 4 days, 11:08,  0 users,  load average: 1,22, 1,61, 1,58

with several suspend and several hibernation cycles in between, cause I never 
it it running through the night. No issue.

Just works. Even with two Plasma sessions. One private one and one for work.

Just sometimes I have it that Plasma session is not locked properly, and then 
doesn´t respond to mouse clicks at all. I did not wait for more than a few 
minutes so far for it to respond again and just "killall -u" it. But it 
happens quite rarely.

Debian Sid, with self-compiled KF5 and KDEPIM, but Plasma from Debian 
packages.

Thanks,
-- 
Martin

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Tim Folger]

On Thursday 10 December 2015 11:43:50 PM Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 2015, 10:16:03 CET schrieb Tim Folger:
> > Thanks, Dominique. That's good to know. Do you happen to use Network
> > Manager?  I started using it for the first time on my new laptop running
> > debian testing and kde 4.14.2, and it has been working really well. For
> > years I had been configuring my wireless settings in
> > /etc/network/interfaces. Network Manager makes things much easier. I'm
> > hoping it would still work if I upgrade to Plasma 5.
> 
> Jup it works.
> 
> I use it with ethernet, wlan + OpenVPN.
> 
> I had it once that it showed all WLAN connections as online, but I didn´t
> see that since then.
> 
> Plasma stuff is in the plasma-nm package now.

It's great to hear that Plasma 5 is shaping up. Thanks, debian-kde team!

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 2015, 09:03:33 CET schrieb Dominique Dumont:
> I still have some issues when switching on and off an external screen (the 
> laptop is 1920x1080 and the screen is 1920x1200).
> When the external screen is switched off, the layout is readjusted for the 
> smaller screen, but the bottom menu bar is lost until I switch the external 
> screen back on (or restart sddm).

Screen handling is still a bit flaky. Even with Qt 5.5.1. But its already much 
better than with Qt 5.4. Also krunner on once screen does not appear in 
visible space when I connect my laptop to external display again. A "killall 
krunner ; krunner" works around this. Already reported on upstream bugtracker.

> Currently, the major pain point for me is the missing digikam..

Yeah. I think Debian Qt/KDE team can need help with that. Lisandro may be 
working on it, but it overloaded with other work already.

Ciao,
-- 
Martin

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 2015, 10:16:03 CET schrieb Tim Folger:
> Thanks, Dominique. That's good to know. Do you happen to use Network
> Manager?  I started using it for the first time on my new laptop running
> debian testing and kde 4.14.2, and it has been working really well. For
> years I had been configuring my wireless settings in
> /etc/network/interfaces. Network Manager makes things much easier. I'm
> hoping it would still work if I upgrade to Plasma 5.

Jup it works.

I use it with ethernet, wlan + OpenVPN.

I had it once that it showed all WLAN connections as online, but I didn´t see 
that since then.

Plasma stuff is in the plasma-nm package now.

-- 
Martin

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Javier Juan Albarracín]

El Jueves, 10 de diciembre de 2015 10:16:03 Tim Folger escribió:
> On Thursday 10 December 2015 9:03:33 AM Dominique Dumont wrote:
> > On Sunday 06 December 2015 15:34:59 you wrote:
> > > What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe to
> > > upgrade?
> > 
> > I use plasma5 from sid on a desktop and a laptop.
> > 
> > This is fairly stable now and usable.
> > 
> > Suspend and resume now work most of the time. This point was hugely
> > improved in the last weeks.
> > 
> > I still have some issues when switching on and off an external screen (the
> > laptop is 1920x1080 and the screen is 1920x1200).
> > When the external screen is switched off, the layout is readjusted for the
> > smaller screen, but the bottom menu bar is lost until I switch the
> > external
> > screen back on (or restart sddm).
> > 
> > Currently, the major pain point for me is the missing digikam..
> > 
> > Hope this helps
> 
> Thanks, Dominique. That's good to know. Do you happen to use Network
> Manager? I started using it for the first time on my new laptop running
> debian testing and kde 4.14.2, and it has been working really well. For
> years I had been configuring my wireless settings in
> /etc/network/interfaces. Network Manager makes things much easier. I'm
> hoping it would still work if I upgrade to Plasma 5.
> 
> Tim

Yes, it works. You should edit the file /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf 
and set to true the "managed" line:

[main]
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile

[ifupdown]
managed=true


Javier

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Tim Folger]

On Thursday 10 December 2015 9:03:33 AM Dominique Dumont wrote:
> On Sunday 06 December 2015 15:34:59 you wrote:
> > What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe to
> > upgrade?
> 
> I use plasma5 from sid on a desktop and a laptop.
> 
> This is fairly stable now and usable.
> 
> Suspend and resume now work most of the time. This point was hugely improved
> in the last weeks.
> 
> I still have some issues when switching on and off an external screen (the
> laptop is 1920x1080 and the screen is 1920x1200).
> When the external screen is switched off, the layout is readjusted for the
> smaller screen, but the bottom menu bar is lost until I switch the external
> screen back on (or restart sddm).
> 
> Currently, the major pain point for me is the missing digikam..
> 
> Hope this helps

Thanks, Dominique. That's good to know. Do you happen to use Network Manager? 
I started using it for the first time on my new laptop running debian testing 
and kde 4.14.2, and it has been working really well. For years I had been 
configuring my wireless settings in /etc/network/interfaces. Network Manager 
makes things much easier. I'm hoping it would still work if I upgrade to 
Plasma 5.

Tim

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 12/10/2015 02:38 PM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

martin@merkaba:~> uptime
  23:34:54 up 4 days, 11:08,  0 users,  load average: 1,22, 1,61, 1,58

with several suspend and several hibernation cycles in between, cause I never
it it running through the night. No issue.

Just works. Even with two Plasma sessions. One private one and one for work.

Just sometimes I have it that Plasma session is not locked properly, and then
doesn�t respond to mouse clicks at all. I did not wait for more than a few
minutes so far for it to respond again and just "killall -u" it. But it
happens quite rarely.

Debian Sid, with self-compiled KF5 and KDEPIM, but Plasma from Debian
packages.

Thanks,



All four of my Plasma systems crash, just setting there or maybe I'll be 
playing Kpat, it's been the case for along time now.  While Xfce is as 
stable as stable can be.  By the way it's 140 packages and 225MB if you 
want to install Kpat on an Xfce system.


Thanks,
--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Stretch - Xfce 4.12 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda13
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Nenad Markovic]

On Dec 10, 2015 9:04 AM, "Dominique Dumont"  wrote:
>
> On Sunday 06 December 2015 15:34:59 you wrote:
> > What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe to
> > upgrade?
>
> I use plasma5 from sid on a desktop and a laptop.
>
> This is fairly stable now and usable.
>
> Suspend and resume now work most of the time. This point was hugely
improved
> in the last weeks.
>
> I still have some issues when switching on and off an external screen (the
> laptop is 1920x1080 and the screen is 1920x1200).
> When the external screen is switched off, the layout is readjusted for the
> smaller screen, but the bottom menu bar is lost until I switch the
external
> screen back on (or restart sddm).
>
> Currently, the major pain point for me is the missing digikam..
>
> Hope this helps
>
> --
>  https://github.com/dod38fr/   -o- http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/
> http://ddumont.wordpress.com/  -o-   irc: dod at irc.debian.org
>

I also have similar problems on my laptop (Lenovo T430) using docking
station and external monitor. Menu bar appears and disappears randomly.
If I remove laptop from docking station while it's locked, after unlocking
I get black screen. All my running tasks are left on external monitor and i
cant use them without returning laptop to dock and undocking it again.
Konsole process is always lost from bar but still active in background. I'm
on Sid btw.

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Dominique Dumont]

On Thursday 10 December 2015 23:42:34 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Yeah. I think Debian Qt/KDE team can need help with that. Lisandro may be 
> working on it, but it overloaded with other work already.

I understand. I almost jumped in to help, but then I remembered that I still 
have trouble following up cme and licensecheck dev, perl6 packaging and misc 
mentoring...

All the best

-- 
 https://github.com/dod38fr/   -o- http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/
http://ddumont.wordpress.com/  -o-   irc: dod at irc.debian.org

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Luc Castermans]

I run Plasma (testing/sid) on a desktop, so no suspend function needed.
I really like it and it is very, very usable.

Luc

2015-12-09 18:42 GMT+01:00 Chris Knadle :

> Marc Haber:
> > On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 06:56:45PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> >> Marc Haber:
> >>> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
>  However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of
> work on
>  the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.
> >>>
> >>> I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
> >>> a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
> >>> is idling away in the lock screen.
> >>
> >> Hmmm!  I normally put my computer to sleep or hibernate for the night,
> so I
> >> haven't seen this -- ick.  I wouldn't like to find that.
> >
> > Actually, the current behavior is a 100 % improvement over August's
> > state of KDE plasma 5 when it was still a complete crash, needing a
> > remote login+ kill X to get the machine back after it was left idling
> > over night.
>
> Yeah, a couple of months ago I repeatedly had to break out to a text
> console
> with Ctrl-Alt-F2 to restart X when I tried Plasma 5.
>
> > I have not dared to suspend the machine since the KDE Plasma 5 update
> > since if the current system doesn't even survive a night of idling,
> > how could it possibly survive a suspend+resume cycle?
>
> Well I don't think suspend/resume should break because of Plasma 5 per se;
> each of these are supposed to resume to the same memory state and continue
> from there.  I'm able to both suspend and hibernate and get back right now;
> that's not to say that this works for everybody of course, it's just one
> data point.  Only way to know if it works for you is to try it.
>
> >>> I didn't report it yet since I use a locally compiled
> >>> plasma-widget-addons with the quick launch widget backported from
> >>> plasma 5.5.
> >>>
> >>> And the volume occasionally jumps up to 100 %, especially when one
> >>> clicks on "leave" or does things in System Settings. My neighbors
> >>> really love that.
> >>
> >> I have this "volume jumps to 100%" issue, but in my case it's a
> self-made
> >> thing -- in my ~/.bashrc I have this:
> >>
> >># Restore local ALSA mixer settings
> >>/usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state restore
> >
> > Not in my case.
>
> Yes, I assumed not.  The main reason I mentioned the above is a) it means
> if
> I've ever had the same thing happen the data is convoluted with the running
> of the alsactrl restore, b) just in case you might have done something
> similar and had forgotten (I didn't think this likely).
>
>-- Chris
>
> --
> Chris Knadle
> chris.kna...@coredump.us
>
>


-- 
Luc Castermans
mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Marc Haber]

On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 06:56:45PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> Marc Haber:
> > On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> >> However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work on
> >> the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.
> > 
> > I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
> > a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
> > is idling away in the lock screen.
> 
> Hmmm!  I normally put my computer to sleep or hibernate for the night, so I
> haven't seen this -- ick.  I wouldn't like to find that.

Actually, the current behavior is a 100 % improvement over August's
state of KDE plasma 5 when it was still a complete crash, needing a
remote login+ kill X to get the machine back after it was left idling
over night.

I have not dared to suspend the machine since the KDE Plasma 5 update
since if the current system doesn't even survive a night of idling,
how could it possibly survive a suspend+resume cycle?

> > I didn't report it yet since I use a locally compiled
> > plasma-widget-addons with the quick launch widget backported from
> > plasma 5.5.
> > 
> > And the volume occasionally jumps up to 100 %, especially when one
> > clicks on "leave" or does things in System Settings. My neighbors
> > really love that.
> 
> I have this "volume jumps to 100%" issue, but in my case it's a self-made
> thing -- in my ~/.bashrc I have this:
> 
># Restore local ALSA mixer settings
>/usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state restore

Not in my case.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Javier Juan Albarracín]

My experience is not as bad as your comments. It is true that I didn't have 
KDE in August when surely Plasma 5 was really unstable. But now it is quite 
stable. I experienced some crashes with KRunner, but not much more. I work all 
days with KDE both for normal usage and for job-related tasks and is actually 
stable. Sure there are more work for stabilization but now it is more than 
usable.
I also read that the problem of suspend and resume will be fixed (if not 
already is) in the Plasma 5.5 version.

Greetings.
Javier.

El Miércoles, 9 de diciembre de 2015 17:56:33 Marc Haber escribió:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 06:56:45PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> > Marc Haber:
> > > On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> > >> However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work
> > >> on
> > >> the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.
> > > 
> > > I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
> > > a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
> > > is idling away in the lock screen.
> > 
> > Hmmm!  I normally put my computer to sleep or hibernate for the night, so
> > I
> > haven't seen this -- ick.  I wouldn't like to find that.
> 
> Actually, the current behavior is a 100 % improvement over August's
> state of KDE plasma 5 when it was still a complete crash, needing a
> remote login+ kill X to get the machine back after it was left idling
> over night.
> 
> I have not dared to suspend the machine since the KDE Plasma 5 update
> since if the current system doesn't even survive a night of idling,
> how could it possibly survive a suspend+resume cycle?
> 
> > > I didn't report it yet since I use a locally compiled
> > > plasma-widget-addons with the quick launch widget backported from
> > > plasma 5.5.
> > > 
> > > And the volume occasionally jumps up to 100 %, especially when one
> > > clicks on "leave" or does things in System Settings. My neighbors
> > > really love that.
> > 
> > I have this "volume jumps to 100%" issue, but in my case it's a self-made
> > 
> > thing -- in my ~/.bashrc I have this:
> ># Restore local ALSA mixer settings
> >/usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state restore
> 
> Not in my case.
> 
> Greetings
> Marc

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Chris Knadle]

Marc Haber:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 06:56:45PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
>> Marc Haber:
>>> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
 However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work on
 the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.
>>>
>>> I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
>>> a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
>>> is idling away in the lock screen.
>>
>> Hmmm!  I normally put my computer to sleep or hibernate for the night, so I
>> haven't seen this -- ick.  I wouldn't like to find that.
> 
> Actually, the current behavior is a 100 % improvement over August's
> state of KDE plasma 5 when it was still a complete crash, needing a
> remote login+ kill X to get the machine back after it was left idling
> over night.

Yeah, a couple of months ago I repeatedly had to break out to a text console
with Ctrl-Alt-F2 to restart X when I tried Plasma 5.

> I have not dared to suspend the machine since the KDE Plasma 5 update
> since if the current system doesn't even survive a night of idling,
> how could it possibly survive a suspend+resume cycle?

Well I don't think suspend/resume should break because of Plasma 5 per se;
each of these are supposed to resume to the same memory state and continue
from there.  I'm able to both suspend and hibernate and get back right now;
that's not to say that this works for everybody of course, it's just one
data point.  Only way to know if it works for you is to try it.

>>> I didn't report it yet since I use a locally compiled
>>> plasma-widget-addons with the quick launch widget backported from
>>> plasma 5.5.
>>>
>>> And the volume occasionally jumps up to 100 %, especially when one
>>> clicks on "leave" or does things in System Settings. My neighbors
>>> really love that.
>>
>> I have this "volume jumps to 100%" issue, but in my case it's a self-made
>> thing -- in my ~/.bashrc I have this:
>>
>># Restore local ALSA mixer settings
>>/usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state restore
> 
> Not in my case.

Yes, I assumed not.  The main reason I mentioned the above is a) it means if
I've ever had the same thing happen the data is convoluted with the running
of the alsactrl restore, b) just in case you might have done something
similar and had forgotten (I didn't think this likely).

   -- Chris

-- 
Chris Knadle
chris.kna...@coredump.us

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Chris Knadle]

Hey, Tim.

Tim Folger:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm running debian testing, with kde version 4.14.2, Given some of the 
> problems I've seen posted on this list, I've been hesitating to upgrade to 
> Plasma 5. What's the state of plasma 5 now in testing? Is it generally safe 
> to 
> upgrade?
> 
> Thanks for any input.

I've been occasionally trying Plasma 5 for many weeks in Sid/Unstable, so
I'll mention some of my observations.

Early versions of Plasma 5 were unusable -- far too quirky and unstable for
me to want to use.  I repeatedly experienced crashes of Konsole, the plasma
Panel, crashes that would bring me back to the login screen -- etc.  Way too
frustrating to use day-to-day.

Downgrading to KDE4 wasn't a good option because it required downgrading a
lot of other packages, and being that I'm on Sid/Unstable this wasn't a good
option -- so I had little choice but to use another Window Manger.
I settled on MATE.  I tried to use Konsole within MATE because when it works
I find Konsole more convenient -- for instance Alt- keyrpesses pass
through Konsole for switching channels in Irssi, but get caught by the MATE
terminal because in MATE terminal they're shortcuts for switching terminal
tabs, and re-assigning those shortcuts doesn't seem to let the keypresses
pass through.  Unfortunately Konsole under MATE was too unstable to use too.

However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work on
the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.  I still occasionally have
Konsole crash on me, and it as well as SystemSettings reliably Segfault on
closing -- but although it's not 100% it's to a point I can tolerate.  I've
loaded a lot of -dbg packages to try to track down the Segfaults, but so far
the results look more confusing than helpful... we'll see how that goes.

So before "making the jump", I'd suggest loading up a VM with Debian Testing
and trying Plasma 5 that way first.  You might find you're able to deal with
it (I suspect you might find it okay), but if not it will be a somewhat
painful downgrade.

  -- Chris

-- 
Chris Knadle, DM
chris.kna...@coredump.us

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Marc Haber]

On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
> However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work on
> the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.

I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
is idling away in the lock screen.

I didn't report it yet since I use a locally compiled
plasma-widget-addons with the quick launch widget backported from
plasma 5.5.

And the volume occasionally jumps up to 100 %, especially when one
clicks on "leave" or does things in System Settings. My neighbors
really love that.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Chris Knadle]

Marc Haber:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 05:31:43PM +, Chris Knadle wrote:
>> However just within the last couple of weeks there's been a lot of work on
>> the KDE5 packages and Plasma 5 is now usable.
> 
> I still regularly experience plasmashell taking 100 % CPU and needing
> a kill + restart. This especially happens over night when the machine
> is idling away in the lock screen.

Hmmm!  I normally put my computer to sleep or hibernate for the night, so I
haven't seen this -- ick.  I wouldn't like to find that.

> I didn't report it yet since I use a locally compiled
> plasma-widget-addons with the quick launch widget backported from
> plasma 5.5.
> 
> And the volume occasionally jumps up to 100 %, especially when one
> clicks on "leave" or does things in System Settings. My neighbors
> really love that.

I have this "volume jumps to 100%" issue, but in my case it's a self-made
thing -- in my ~/.bashrc I have this:

   # Restore local ALSA mixer settings
   /usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state restore

... so every time I open up a new terminal window, .bashrc gets invoked and
the ALSA mixer settings get reset back to what was last stored.

   -- Chris

-- 
Chris Knadle
chris.kna...@coredump.us

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Tim Folger]

On Monday 07 December 2015 12:39:32 PM Javier Juan Albarracin wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> 
> I have recently updated (3 days ago) my Debian testing Plasma 4.14.2 to
> Plasma 5 successfully, but it was not trivial.
> 
> First, I tried to do the Plasma 5 upgrade by migrating from stable to
> testing and performing the typicall apt-get upgrade && apt-get
> dist-upgrade. However, such operations intends to uninstall packages such
> as "task-kde-desktop", "kwin", "kde-standard" and so on. I accepted and
> obviously the DE brokes after the reboot. I tried to perform the upgrade by
> other similar ways (using aptitude instead of apt, etc) and always brokes.
> So finally I decided to perform a fresh install of Debian 8.2 WITHOUT any
> desktop environment, then install the KDE Desktop through the command line
> and it works perfectly!
> The steps I followed were:
> 
> 1. Fresh install of Debian 8.2 (stable) WITHOUT Desktop Environment
> 2. Change "stable" to "testing" and apt-get update && apt-get upgrade &&
> apt-get dist-upgrade, since you cannot update more your system. Kernel
> 4.2.0 is installed at this step.
> 3. Follow the instructions of https://wiki.debian.org/KDE to install KDE
> desktop
>  3.1. apt-get install aptitude tasksel (They are already installed
> but ensure it)
>  3.2. aptitude install ~t^desktop$ ~t^kde-desktop$
> 
> And it works perfectly! Now, Plasma 5 is a little bit "fragile" (I cannot
> say "unstable" because it is not true, but it is a little bit fragile).
> 
> Hope it helps!
> Regards.
> 
> Javier.

Thanks, Javier, for the detailed reply. I'm already running testing, and 
whenever I upgrade I usually quit the desktop, stop kdm, and upgrade from the 
command line. I wonder if that will help produce a smoother upgrade 
experience?

Re: Safe to upgrade?

[Javier Juan Albarracin]

Hi Tim,

I have recently updated (3 days ago) my Debian testing Plasma 4.14.2 to
Plasma 5 successfully, but it was not trivial.

First, I tried to do the Plasma 5 upgrade by migrating from stable to
testing and performing the typicall apt-get upgrade && apt-get
dist-upgrade. However, such operations intends to uninstall packages such
as "task-kde-desktop", "kwin", "kde-standard" and so on. I accepted and
obviously the DE brokes after the reboot. I tried to perform the upgrade by
other similar ways (using aptitude instead of apt, etc) and always brokes.
So finally I decided to perform a fresh install of Debian 8.2 WITHOUT any
desktop environment, then install the KDE Desktop through the command line
and it works perfectly!
The steps I followed were:

1. Fresh install of Debian 8.2 (stable) WITHOUT Desktop Environment
2. Change "stable" to "testing" and apt-get update && apt-get upgrade &&
apt-get dist-upgrade, since you cannot update more your system. Kernel
4.2.0 is installed at this step.
3. Follow the instructions of https://wiki.debian.org/KDE to install KDE
desktop
 3.1. apt-get install aptitude tasksel (They are already installed
but ensure it)
 3.2. aptitude install ~t^desktop$ ~t^kde-desktop$

And it works perfectly! Now, Plasma 5 is a little bit "fragile" (I cannot
say "unstable" because it is not true, but it is a little bit fragile).

Hope it helps!
Regards.

Javier.

Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4? [startx doesn't work -- freezes OR xinit: Server error

[Phillip Pi]

OK, I decided to do an apt-get dist-upgrade, but I ran into problems in 
starting X. :( I copied
and pasted a copy of my apt-get logs in the bottom of the e-mail. I did not see 
any errors. When
I use startx command (I boot up Linux into text mode; no GUI), startx just 
hangs. I tried with
two different non-root accounts. I even checked /var/log/XFree86*.log files, 
but didn't see
anything updated. I did notice a couple times startx gave me xinit: Server 
error.

What's wrong? And how do I fix it? I am still sort of new to Linux and this was 
my first time I 
ever did a full upgrade that required a lot of dependencies. I hope I didn't 
cause too many 
damages. I was careful to do it outside of X to avoid any conflicts, files in 
used, etc.

# apt-get dist-upgrade 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  dbus-qt-1 k3b kcmlinuz kdelibs4 libarts1 libkdenetwork2 libmimelib1a 
libopenexr2 libqt3c102-mt libtag1
  xserver-xfree86
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  akregator dbus-qt-1c2 kaddressbook kdelibs4c2 kdenetwork-kfile-plugins 
libarts1c2 libbluetooth1 libflac++5
  libgnokii2 libgpgme11 libkcal2b libkdepim1a libkleopatra0a libkmime2 
libktnef1 liboggflac3 libopenexr2c2 libqt3-mt
  libsasl2-modules libsnmp9 libtag1c2 libxcomposite1 libxdamage1 libxfixes3 
perl-suid readline-common
The following packages will be upgraded:
  akode ark arts artsbuilder dcoprss guarddog k3blibs kaboodle kappfinder kate 
kate-plugins kaudiocreator kcalc
  kcharselect kcoloredit kcontrol kcron kdat kdeaddons-kfile-plugins kdeadmin 
kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kdeartwork-style
  kdeartwork-theme-window kdebase kdebase-bin kdebase-data kdebase-kio-plugins 
kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs
  kdelibs-bin kdelibs-data kdelirc kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins 
kdemultimedia-kio-plugins kdenetwork
  kdenetwork-filesharing kdepasswd kdepim-kio-plugins kdeprint kdesktop kdessh 
kdeutils kdf kdict kdvi kedit
  kfilereplace kfind kfloppy kgamma kget kghostview kgpg khelpcenter khexedit 
kicker kicker-applets kiconedit
  kimagemapeditor kjots klaptopdaemon klinkstatus klipper kmenuedit kmid kmilo 
kmix kmoon kmrml knewsticker
  kolourpaint kommander konq-plugins konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konsole 
kopete korn kpackage kpager kpdf
  kpersonalizer kpf kpovmodeler kppp krdc krec kregexpeditor krfb kruler kscd 
kscreensaver kscreensaver-xsavers ksig
  ksim ksirc ksmserver ksnapshot ksplash ksvg ksysguard ksysguardd ksysv ktimer 
ktip ktnef ktux kuickshow kuser kview
  kviewshell kwalletmanager kwifimanager kwin kxsldbg libarts1-mpeglib 
libarts1-xine libkcddb1 libkonq4 libneon23
  libreadline4 libreadline5 librss1 mpeglib noatun noatun-plugins 
openssh-client openssh-server pinentry-qt qtparted
  secpolicy vimpart xserver-common
133 upgraded, 26 newly installed, 11 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 98.1MB of archives.
After unpacking 5176kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? 
Get:1 http://mirrors.kernel.org testing/main libbluetooth1 2.19-1 [32.2kB]
Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main arts 1.4.2-4 [4590B]
Get:3 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main librss1 4:3.4.2-3 [50.7kB]
Get:4 http://mirrors.kernel.org testing/main libgnokii2 0.6.8-0.2 [180kB]
Get:5 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main libkonq4 4:3.4.2-3 [253kB]
Get:6 http://mirrors.kernel.org testing/main libreadline4 4.3-17 [106kB]
Get:7 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kcontrol 4:3.4.2-3 [7835kB]
Get:8 http://mirrors.kernel.org testing/main libreadline5 5.0-11 [113kB]
Get:9 http://mirrors.kernel.org testing/main readline-common 5.0-11 [48.8kB]
Get:10 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main libxcomposite1 6.8.2.dfsg.1-8 
[185kB]   
Get:11 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main libxdamage1 6.8.2.dfsg.1-8 
[185kB]  
Get:12 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main libxfixes3 6.8.2.dfsg.1-8 
[188kB]   
Get:13 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kwin 4:3.4.2-3 [968kB]   
   
Get:14 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kicker 4:3.4.2-3 [1710kB]
   
Get:15 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kdebase-data 4:3.4.2-3 [5730kB]  
   
Get:16 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main knewsticker 4:3.4.2-3 [445kB]
   
Get:17 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kopete 4:3.4.2-3 [4369kB]
   
Get:18 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kwifimanager 4:3.4.2-3 [198kB]   
   
Get:19 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main kdenetwork-filesharing 4:3.4.2-3 
[605kB]
Get:20 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main k3blibs 0.12.4a-3 [898kB]
  

Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4? [startx doesn't work -- freezes OR xinit: Server error

[André Wöbbeking]

On Sunday 09 October 2005 08:19, Phillip Pi wrote:
 OK, I decided to do an apt-get dist-upgrade, but I ran into problems
 in starting X. :( I copied and pasted a copy of my apt-get logs in
 the bottom of the e-mail. I did not see any errors. When I use
 startx command (I boot up Linux into text mode; no GUI), startx
 just hangs. I tried with two different non-root accounts. I even
 checked /var/log/XFree86*.log files, but didn't see anything updated.
 I did notice a couple times startx gave me xinit: Server error.

 What's wrong? And how do I fix it? I am still sort of new to Linux
 and this was my first time I ever did a full upgrade that required a
 lot of dependencies. I hope I didn't cause too many damages. I was
 careful to do it outside of X to avoid any conflicts, files in used,
 etc.

You've to upgrade to Xorg too (at least xserver-xorg).


Cherrs,
André

Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4? [startx doesn't work -- freezes OR xinit: Server error

[Phillip Pi]

  OK, I decided to do an apt-get dist-upgrade, but I ran into problems
  in starting X. :( I copied and pasted a copy of my apt-get logs in
  the bottom of the e-mail. I did not see any errors. When I use
  startx command (I boot up Linux into text mode; no GUI), startx
  just hangs. I tried with two different non-root accounts. I even
  checked /var/log/XFree86*.log files, but didn't see anything updated.
  I did notice a couple times startx gave me xinit: Server error.
 
  What's wrong? And how do I fix it? I am still sort of new to Linux
  and this was my first time I ever did a full upgrade that required a
  lot of dependencies. I hope I didn't cause too many damages. I was
  careful to do it outside of X to avoid any conflicts, files in used,
  etc.
 
 You've to upgrade to Xorg too (at least xserver-xorg).

Ahhh! Isn't Xorg completely different from X11 or is that just a new name but 
still the same 
thing? I wonder why apt-get distupgrade didn't see that dependency if I needed 
it. Weird.
-- 
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  /\___/\
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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4? [startx doesn't work -- freezes OR xinit: Server error

[André Wöbbeking]

On Sunday 09 October 2005 08:58, Phillip Pi wrote:
 
  You've to upgrade to Xorg too (at least xserver-xorg).

 Ahhh! Isn't Xorg completely different from X11 or is that just a new
 name but still the same thing?

It's a fork of XFree86 4.3.xxx so it's more or less the same.

 I wonder why apt-get distupgrade 
 didn't see that dependency if I needed it. Weird.

Do you've x-window-system (-core) installed? It depends on xserver-org.


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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4? [startx doesn't work -- freezes OR xinit: Server error

[Phillip Pi]

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 09:59:55AM +0200, André Wöbbeking wrote:
 On Sunday 09 October 2005 08:58, Phillip Pi wrote:
  
   You've to upgrade to Xorg too (at least xserver-xorg).
 
  Ahhh! Isn't Xorg completely different from X11 or is that just a new
  name but still the same thing?
 
 It's a fork of XFree86 4.3.xxx so it's more or less the same.

Ah.

 
  I wonder why apt-get distupgrade 
  didn't see that dependency if I needed it. Weird.
 
 Do you've x-window-system (-core) installed? It depends on xserver-org.

Currently, no:

# apt-get install x-window-system
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  lbxproxy libglu1-xorg libxdmcp6 proxymngr twm x-window-system-core xdm xfs 
xfwp xnest xprint 
xprint-common xserver-common
  xserver-xorg xterm xvfb
Suggested packages:
  libglide2 xfonts-cyrillic
Recommended packages:
  discover xresprobe
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  xlibmesa-glu xlibmesa-glu-dev xserver-xfree86
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  lbxproxy libglu1-xorg libxdmcp6 proxymngr twm x-window-system 
x-window-system-core xdm xfs 
xfwp xnest xprint xprint-common
  xserver-xorg xterm xvfb
The following packages will be upgraded:
  xserver-common
1 upgraded, 16 newly installed, 3 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 14.1MB of archives.
After unpacking 18.3MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? 

# apt-get install x-window-core
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package x-window-core


Do I need this x-window-system? I noticed apt-get wants to remove xlibmesa-glu 
packages. Isn't 
this for 3D stuff like in xscreensavers (not KDE's screen savers), games, etc.?
-- 
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  /\___/\
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| |o   o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4? [startx doesn't work -- freezes OR xinit: Server error

[Hendrik Sattler]

Am Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2005 10:15 schrieb Phillip Pi:
  Do you've x-window-system (-core) installed? It depends on xserver-org.

 Currently, no:
 # apt-get install x-window-core
 Reading package lists... Done
 Building dependency tree... Done
 E: Couldn't find package x-window-core

The package is called x-windows-system-core.

 Do I need this x-window-system? I noticed apt-get wants to remove
 xlibmesa-glu packages. Isn't this for 3D stuff like in xscreensavers (not
 KDE's screen savers), games, etc.? --

Ever thought about that x.org packages comes with new package names? Never 
mind such lib packages as they get installed automatically if a program needs 
it.

HS


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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4?

[Hendrik Sattler]

Am Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2005 07:04 schrieb Björn Krombholz:
 Take a look at the docs, especially for the new udev-package, because
 the configuration of hotplug changed.

If you don't use self-compiled kernel and want ALSA to work, you might want to 
wait till the packages that blacklist stuff changed to the modutils method.

Actually, the idea of udev was to have something for a specific purpose, just 
like hotplug for loading modules and running scripts.
Currently, Debian's udev maintainer wants udev to be the ultimate userspace 
thing. Sounds to be like another usage that it was not really designed 
for :-(
And just because they cannot get the damn synchronisation between the two 
right.

HS

Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4?

[Phillip Pi]

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:21:12PM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote:

  Take a look at the docs, especially for the new udev-package, because
  the configuration of hotplug changed.
 
 If you don't use self-compiled kernel and want ALSA to work, you might want 
 to 
 wait till the packages that blacklist stuff changed to the modutils method.

AFAIK, I don't think I use ALSA according to apt-get:
# apt-get remove alsa-base
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Package alsa-base is not installed, so not removed
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

I am using the onboard motherboard's audio (RealTek ALC650 6-channel audio). I 
am using the 
default Kernel 2.6.12-K7 from apt-get.
-- 
What do ants and bees use for cattle? --Tom
  /\___/\
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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4?

[Silvan]

On Saturday 08 October 2005 10:56 pm, Phillip Pi wrote:
 Hello! I am still using KDE v3.3.2 on my Debian (Kernel 2.6.12-K7) box. I
 would like to upgrade to 3.4 if possible, but I was told that it is not
 ready weeks ago. Is it still not ready? I had these dependencies:

If there ever was the promised it's safe now message, I never noticed it.

I finally decided to try for some reason or other, after waiting maybe six 
weeks, and it didn't go too badly.  I think two or three comparatively minor  
things broke, which I had to address by hand.

That was a week or two ago, so chances are good that it's safe to come out now 
and give it a whirl.

-- 
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Linux fanatic, and certified Geek;  registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/


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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4?

[Phillip Pi]

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:34:31AM -0400, Silvan wrote:
 On Saturday 08 October 2005 10:56 pm, Phillip Pi wrote:
  Hello! I am still using KDE v3.3.2 on my Debian (Kernel 2.6.12-K7) box. I
  would like to upgrade to 3.4 if possible, but I was told that it is not
  ready weeks ago. Is it still not ready? I had these dependencies:
 
 If there ever was the promised it's safe now message, I never noticed it.
 
 I finally decided to try for some reason or other, after waiting maybe six 
 weeks, and it didn't go too badly.  I think two or three comparatively minor  
 things broke, which I had to address by hand.

Which things broke?
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Re: Safe to upgrade my KDE 3.3.2 to v3.4?

[Björn Krombholz]

2005/10/9, Phillip Pi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hello! I am still using KDE v3.3.2 on my Debian (Kernel 2.6.12-K7) box. I 
 would like to upgrade
 to 3.4 if possible, but I was told that it is not ready weeks ago. Is it 
 still not ready?
[...]
 I still run into dependency issues that I am worried about like these:
 # apt-get install udev
[...]
 The following packages will be REMOVED:
   hotplug
[...]
 Note: I think I need hotplug for USB Flash sticks/drives?

hotplug support is integrated into udev now. Read udev's changelog for
more information.

 # apt-get install licq
[...]
 The following packages will be REMOVED:
   licq-plugin-qt
[...]
 Note: I actually upgraded, and my Licq broke.

Install licq-plugin-kde

 # apt-get install xserver-common
[...]
 The following packages will be REMOVED:
   xserver-xfree86
[...]
 Note: Is this safe? I still XFree86 and NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti4200 with the 
 latest NVIDIA driver
 from nvidia.com.

Xorg + nvidia drivers don't work worse than with XFree here.

 # apt-get install k3b
[...]
 The following packages will be REMOVED:
[...]
 Note: Sounds scary! Removing a lot of stuff too.

Nothing is removed but replaced by packages with new names which was
necessary because of the C++ compiler transition process.

 If it is still not time to do a full upgrade, when will it be? A few more 
 months?

I had no problem with the current KDE so far. At least there seem to
be not more bugs than in older KDE packages. ;)

Take a look at the docs, especially for the new udev-package, because
the configuration of hotplug changed.



Björn

Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[David Goodenough]

I had this problem on a newly installed machine, but I solved it by 
downgrading kdelibs4 and kdelibs-bin to 3.3.2-6.1.  kmail now does not
segfault.  I await 3.4.1 with interest.

David

On Saturday 16 July 2005 02:16, Tim Folger wrote:
 Has anyone upgraded sid within the last few days without encountering the
 segfault with kmail? Does the upgrade still break kmail?

 Tim


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OT: Package stability (was: Re: safe to upgrade sid?)

[Anders Breindahl]

On Saturday 16 July 2005 21:00, Adeodato Simó wrote:
  * Anders Breindahl [Sat, 16 Jul 2005 19:37:40 +0200]:
   It is rather disturbing, that errors in libraries in unstable is not
   prioritized any higher than the ongoing transitions.
 
Sorry, but if this fuckup has not been fixed already is because it
can't be fixed without major pain, due to GCC 4 being the default
compiler now.

Thanks to those who pointed this out. That had passed my attention.

I was merely providing the (thought-up) view of a user, who didn't understand 
how his or her system broke because of a software update. The frustration is 
real, but if I worried about stability of packages, I shouldn't have gone 
with Unstable.
I know that fact, but I just didn't know that I worried about the stability of 
packages. As is, I have become afraid of dist-upgrading: What is going to 
break this time?

And I suppose that I am not the only wannabe-dev, who runs Unstable simply 
because of the version numbers it supplies.

All that is well known. The morale is, that I still shouldn't suggest Unstable 
to users I help install, and that I really should consider Testing myself. I 
assume that such ``errors'' as kmail breaking would be considered rather 
important to fix straightaway, if they should emerge in Testing..?

Regards, Anders Breindahl.


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Re: OT: Package stability (was: Re: safe to upgrade sid?)

[Josh Metzler]

On Sunday 17 July 2005 11:35 am, Anders Breindahl wrote:
...
 All that is well known. The morale is, that I still shouldn't suggest
 Unstable to users I help install, and that I really should consider
 Testing myself. I assume that such ``errors'' as kmail breaking would be
 considered rather important to fix straightaway, if they should emerge in
 Testing..?

 Regards, Anders Breindahl.

Well, if such an error emerged in testing, it would take even longer to fix, 
as the fix would first have to go through unstable.  This is exactly the 
reason testing is often considered safer in regard to package stability, 
though - hopefully all errors such as this will turn up in unstable and 
therefore the broken package will not make it into testing.

Josh


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Tim Folger]

Thanks for the advice, Josh and Larry. I think I will hold off on upgrading.

Tim


On Friday 15 July 2005 09:11 pm, Josh Metzler wrote:
 On Friday 15 July 2005 09:16 pm, Tim Folger wrote:
  Has anyone upgraded sid within the last few days without encountering the
  segfault with kmail? Does the upgrade still break kmail?
 
  Tim

 There hasn't been any change in sid regarding kde libraries or kmail - the
 kdelibs version that causes some people kmail segfaults is still there.
 So, I would recommend you wait.

 There is also the gcc 4.0 transition going on and the xfree86 - x.org
 transition.  The current plan is that qt3 and then kde 3.4 will be uploaded
 once x.org has built on all architectures.  I plan to wait on upgrading
 anything x or kde related until kde 3.4 is available, assuming that that
 will indicate the transitions that affect me will be made.  You may want to
 do the same.

 Josh


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Anders Breindahl]

On Saturday 16 July 2005 05:11, Josh Metzler wrote:
  There is also the gcc 4.0 transition going on and the xfree86 - x.org
  transition.  The current plan is that qt3 and then kde 3.4 will be
  uploaded once x.org has built on all architectures.  I plan to wait on
  upgrading anything x or kde related until kde 3.4 is available, assuming
  that that will indicate the transitions that affect me will be made.  You
  may want to do the same.
It is rather disturbing, that errors in libraries in unstable is not 
prioritized any higher than the ongoing transitions.

You can of course upgrade, but you'll need to manually install the old 
kdelibs-packages (-6.1). They'll be upgraded next time too, AFAIK.

Annoying. But then again, that's ``unstable'' for you.

Regards, Anders Breindahl.


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Larry Garfield]

Well, there is a certain logic to it.  Sid is explicitly not intended for 
production use (although many, including myself, get away with it without 
too man problems).  So, if given the choice between these two options:

- Upgrade package XYZ
- Switch to gcc 4
- Recompile/debug package XYZ under gcc 4
- Switch to Xorg
- Recompile/debug package XYZ for Xorg

-or-

- Switch to gcc 4
- Switch to Xorg
- Recompile/debug package XYZ for Xorg and gcc 4

It makes perfect sense that the Debian maintainers would go with the option 
that means less work for them but ends up in the same place in the end.  The 
whole point of Sid is that they make that decision rather than the other way 
around.  That's what unstable means in practice: Unsupported, bugs will get 
fixed when convenient for the maintainer, not when convenient for the user.

On Saturday 16 July 2005 12:37 pm, Anders Breindahl wrote:
 On Saturday 16 July 2005 05:11, Josh Metzler wrote:
   There is also the gcc 4.0 transition going on and the xfree86 - x.org
   transition.  The current plan is that qt3 and then kde 3.4 will be
   uploaded once x.org has built on all architectures.  I plan to wait on
   upgrading anything x or kde related until kde 3.4 is available, assuming
   that that will indicate the transitions that affect me will be made. 
   You may want to do the same.

 It is rather disturbing, that errors in libraries in unstable is not
 prioritized any higher than the ongoing transitions.

 You can of course upgrade, but you'll need to manually install the old
 kdelibs-packages (-6.1). They'll be upgraded next time too, AFAIK.

 Annoying. But then again, that's ``unstable'' for you.

 Regards, Anders Breindahl.

-- 
Larry Garfield  AIM: LOLG42
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   ICQ: 6817012

If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.  -- Thomas 
Jefferson


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Josh Metzler]

On Saturday 16 July 2005 01:37 pm, Anders Breindahl wrote:
 On Saturday 16 July 2005 05:11, Josh Metzler wrote:
   There is also the gcc 4.0 transition going on and the xfree86 - x.org
   transition.  The current plan is that qt3 and then kde 3.4 will be
   uploaded once x.org has built on all architectures.  I plan to wait on
   upgrading anything x or kde related until kde 3.4 is available,
   assuming that that will indicate the transitions that affect me will
   be made.  You may want to do the same.

 It is rather disturbing, that errors in libraries in unstable is not
 prioritized any higher than the ongoing transitions.

As I understand it, it isn't a matter of priorities, but that it is not 
possible to get a fixed kdelibs4 3.3.2 packages into sid. Since a number of 
the libraries that kdelibs depends on have made the gcc 4.0 transition 
already, kdelibs would be building against a mix of packages compiled with 
gcc 4.0 and others with 3.3.

 You can of course upgrade, but you'll need to manually install the old
 kdelibs-packages (-6.1). They'll be upgraded next time too, AFAIK.

I did:

# echo kdelibs4 hold | dpkg --set-selections
# echo kdelibs-data hold | dpkg --set-selections

Then once the transition is over, I will echo kdelibs4 install | dpkg 
--set-selections, and the same for kdelibs-data.  That way I don't need to 
worry about forgetting and upgrading them.

 Annoying. But then again, that's ``unstable'' for you.

Actually, I haven't said yes to apt-get -u upgrade for a few weeks now, with 
all the transitions that are going on.  I've been picking and choosing 
individual packages.  It is a pain, but I chose it, I guess.

Josh


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Adeodato Simó]

* Anders Breindahl [Sat, 16 Jul 2005 19:37:40 +0200]:

 It is rather disturbing, that errors in libraries in unstable is not 
 prioritized any higher than the ongoing transitions.

  Sorry, but if this fuckup has not been fixed already is because it
  can't be fixed without major pain, due to GCC 4 being the default
  compiler now.

  HTH,

-- 
Adeodato Simó
EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | PK: DA6AE621
 
In my opinion, the most fruitful and natural play of the mind is in
conversation. I find it sweeter than any other action in life; and if I
were forced to choose, I think I would rather lose my sight than my
hearing and voice.
-- Michel de Montaigne


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Larry Garfield]

KMail is behaving itself for me (Sid + Alioth), but right now konq-plugins and 
kdeaddons are conflicting with each other, even though kdeaddons requires 
konq-plugins. :-)  (I think it's because for some reason apt-get show gives 
konq-plugins 3.4.0pre2 while apt-get install gives konq-plugins 
3.3.something.  Not sure why).  My sound system is also very jerky all of a 
sudden.

I think at the moment, best advice is to not upgrade Sid until it has settled 
down more, unless you're fixing a specific problem.  (Of course I now have 
several of my own doing. g)

On Friday 15 July 2005 08:16 pm, Tim Folger wrote:
 Has anyone upgraded sid within the last few days without encountering the
 segfault with kmail? Does the upgrade still break kmail?

 Tim

-- 
Larry Garfield  AIM: LOLG42
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   ICQ: 6817012

If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.  -- Thomas 
Jefferson


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Re: safe to upgrade sid?

[Josh Metzler]

On Friday 15 July 2005 09:16 pm, Tim Folger wrote:
 Has anyone upgraded sid within the last few days without encountering the
 segfault with kmail? Does the upgrade still break kmail?

 Tim

There hasn't been any change in sid regarding kde libraries or kmail - the 
kdelibs version that causes some people kmail segfaults is still there.  
So, I would recommend you wait.

There is also the gcc 4.0 transition going on and the xfree86 - x.org 
transition.  The current plan is that qt3 and then kde 3.4 will be uploaded 
once x.org has built on all architectures.  I plan to wait on upgrading 
anything x or kde related until kde 3.4 is available, assuming that that 
will indicate the transitions that affect me will be made.  You may want to 
do the same.

Josh


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Re: Safe to upgrade testing/sid KDE now?

[Paul Johnson]

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On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 08:59:03PM -0800, Hereon wrote:
 Is there info available that indicates whether it is safe to apt-get
 upgrade a KDE system? [ie, that the upgrade will not result in major
 packages missing, or not working.]

If you need to ask if it's safe to upgrade to a developer version of
anything, no, it's not safe unless you know what you're doing and can
accept some completely random and possibly severe breakage.

- -- 
 .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: :'  :http://ursine.ca/
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
  `-   Debian.  Because it *must* work.
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Re: Safe to upgrade testing/sid KDE now? - OK vs Broken

[Hereon]

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:22:47 -0800, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 08:59:03PM -0800, Hereon wrote:
  Is there info available that indicates whether it is safe to apt-get
  upgrade a KDE system? [ie, that the upgrade will not result in major
  packages missing, or not working.]
 
 If you need to ask if it's safe to upgrade to a developer version of
 anything, no, it's not safe unless you know what you're doing and can
 accept some completely random and possibly severe breakage.

Thanks for your prompt reply Paul.  :)

I don't mean this disrespectfully.  I am already aware of what you have
said.  The reason I included the bracketed section which you included in
your reply was to inform potential repliers of what I had in mind in
regarding safe - in a definitional way.

If you know if the debs currently on the mirrors should provide a
working, or broken, KDE upgrade [especially from the system I indicated I
have], I'd be interested in knowing.

Thanks.  :)


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Re: Safe to upgrade testing/sid KDE now?

[Anders Ellenshøj Andersen]

On Wednesday 25 February 2004 05:59, Hereon wrote:

 I have a KDE 3.1.4 on testing/woody, for x86, using pinning to get the
 sid debs, last updated about 2 mos ago.

Well if you know enough to be able to handle the trouble of keeping a system 
in such a weird state, then yes I'd say it's probably safe. No problems 
currently as far as I can see. We are all waiting for KDE 3.1.5 to go into 
testing from unstable, and as soon as KDE 3.2.1 is released we will 
eventually want to have that in unstable I'll bet.

With all the complaints about KDE 3.2 that is cropping up, I am not seeing 
that in unstable before 3.2.1 is released.

But anyway as far as I know everything is pretty quiet in pure unstable right 
now.

Anders

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Re: Safe to upgrade testing/sid KDE now?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 08:27:54AM +0100, Anders Ellensh?j Andersen wrote:
 On Wednesday 25 February 2004 05:59, Hereon wrote:
  I have a KDE 3.1.4 on testing/woody, for x86, using pinning to get the
  sid debs, last updated about 2 mos ago.
 
 Well if you know enough to be able to handle the trouble of keeping a system 
 in such a weird state, then yes I'd say it's probably safe. No problems 
 currently as far as I can see. We are all waiting for KDE 3.1.5 to go into 
 testing from unstable,

KDE 3.1.5 has been installable in testing for a few days now. It should
be complete in testing (with the exception of kdegraphics on mipsel,
which will still be 3.1.4) as of tonight's mirror run.

-- 
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