[digitalradio] Fwd: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000
-- Forwarded message -- From: J. Moen Date: Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:42 AM Subject: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000 To: kenwoodts-2...@yahoogroups.com I've gotten interested in D-Star, and have been running what's called a D-Star Hotspot at my home. This is a small piece of hardware that functions as a gmsk modem and connects to an analog radio's 9600bps Data port. The board is connected to a PC running software that allows the radio to be linked to various worldwide D-Star repeaters and reflectors. I did this since my location does not provide reliable access to a D-Star repeater. I just use a D-Star HT to communicate with my Hotspot, which forwards my voice on to the connected repeater, etc. While my Hotspot is using a spare KW TM-D700A for everyday duty, I've wired up a cable to use it with my TS-2000. For this, I'm interested in adapting the 2000 to be a D-Star-capable radio. There are various ways to do this, and one more way that's soon to be released. Those are listed below. I'm interested so I can do D-Star on 6 and 10 meters. ICOM will soon be releasing their new IC-9100 radio, and with the optional D-Star card, it will do D-Star on 6 and 10 meters as well as VHF/UHF and optional 1.2ghz. Except for the very high price, this DC to Daylight radio could be considered a competitor to the TS-2000. Anyway, I want to be able to make simplex D-Star contacts on 6 and 10 meters, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg. My Hotspot cost about US $140 (built, the kits are cheaper). To function as a standalone D-Star radio, right now I also need a DV Dongle to handle the conversion of audio to and from the AMBE compressed format. The DV Dongle costs $200. So for $340 I have a D-Star capable HF, VHF and UHF radio. And I'm hoping future developments will bring the price down. If anyone else is able to get on 10 meters with D-Star and would like to try to plan a sked, please contact me directly. I am revamping my antennas, but my current end-fed sloper might do the job now, otherwise my vertical should be up and running in a few weeks. Here are the current ways to adapt an analog radio, including HF, that has a 9600 Data port, to D-Star: 1. FunkAmateur DV-Adapter 2.0 fully hardware solution. Built: $600. Kit with ICOM UT-118 about $500. 2. Mini HotSpot or node adapter board with DVAR Hot Spot software connected to DV Dongle's DVTools software. US $340. This is what I'm doing right now. 3. Under development: new node adapter-type board from Fred van Kempen PA4YBR, fully hardware solution. Price and release date unknown. This is cheaper than option 1 and simpler than option 2. I may switch to this approach when available. 4. D-Star Client soundcard software by Jonathan G4KLX. Finding the correct soundcard or dongle is critical, and the interface (unlike traditional data mode interfaces for PSK31, etc.) must contain no filters. But the price is right: Free if you build your own interface between soundcard and radio. Jonathan may support a gmsk or node adapter interface some time in the future, but for now it is soundcard based. One further note -- For a while, I did some digital voice on 20 meters using the FDMDV program that used the MELP codec. This used a fairly narrow bandwidth, about the same as SSB. But it turned out MELP was encumbered with license restrictions that none of us initially knew about. When we found out, that version died immediately. What I learned was digital voice can be done long range with a skip signal as long as conditions are nearly perfect, with little multipath, phase changes or QSB. But, those conditions are not uncommon if you are patient, so I'm hoping to have some long range D_Star QSOs on 10 meters. The bandwidth is theoretically 6.25 hHz, but in practice it is wider than that, hence in my opinion, it would not be advisable in FCC jurisdictions on 160 through 15m. I think on 10 and 6m it could be fun. But I will not use it during a lively contest. Just too wide at that time. Jim - K6JM
Re: [digitalradio] Fwd: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000
I have to agree that it would be interesting to experiment with the D-Star modem, but it doesn't seem practical for HF. In addition to gobbling up a fair amount of spectrum, I suspect that it would be difficult to maintain the required SNR with a modem that's 6KHz wide. The narrow-band FDMDV modem worked out well by not only improving sensitivity over WinDRM, but by allowing one to squeeze the signal between the adjacent QRM. The modems quick recover time was a real plus as well - not sure how long it takes for the D-Star modem to re-sync. Tony -K2MO -- Forwarded message -- From: *J. Moen* Date: Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:42 AM Subject: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000 To: kenwoodts-2...@yahoogroups.com mailto:kenwoodts-2...@yahoogroups.com I've gotten interested in D-Star, and have been running what's called a D-Star Hotspot at my home. This is a small piece of hardware that functions as a gmsk modem and connects to an analog radio's 9600bps Data port. The board is connected to a PC running software that allows the radio to be linked to various worldwide D-Star repeaters and reflectors. I did this since my location does not provide reliable access to a D-Star repeater. I just use a D-Star HT to communicate with my Hotspot, which forwards my voice on to the connected repeater, etc. While my Hotspot is using a spare KW TM-D700A for everyday duty, I've wired up a cable to use it with my TS-2000. For this, I'm interested in adapting the 2000 to be a D-Star-capable radio. There are various ways to do this, and one more way that's soon to be released. Those are listed below. I'm interested so I can do D-Star on 6 and 10 meters. ICOM will soon be releasing their new IC-9100 radio, and with the optional D-Star card, it will do D-Star on 6 and 10 meters as well as VHF/UHF and optional 1.2ghz. Except for the very high price, this DC to Daylight radio could be considered a competitor to the TS-2000. Anyway, I want to be able to make simplex D-Star contacts on 6 and 10 meters, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg. My Hotspot cost about US $140 (built, the kits are cheaper). To function as a standalone D-Star radio, right now I also need a DV Dongle to handle the conversion of audio to and from the AMBE compressed format. The DV Dongle costs $200. So for $340 I have a D-Star capable HF, VHF and UHF radio. And I'm hoping future developments will bring the price down. If anyone else is able to get on 10 meters with D-Star and would like to try to plan a sked, please contact me directly. I am revamping my antennas, but my current end-fed sloper might do the job now, otherwise my vertical should be up and running in a few weeks. Here are the current ways to adapt an analog radio, including HF, that has a 9600 Data port, to D-Star: 1. FunkAmateur DV-Adapter 2.0 fully hardware solution. Built: $600. Kit with ICOM UT-118 about $500. 2. Mini HotSpot or node adapter board with DVAR Hot Spot software connected to DV Dongle's DVTools software. US $340. This is what I'm doing right now. 3. Under development: new node adapter-type board from Fred van Kempen PA4YBR, fully hardware solution. Price and release date unknown. This is cheaper than option 1 and simpler than option 2. I may switch to this approach when available. 4. D-Star Client soundcard software by Jonathan G4KLX. Finding the correct soundcard or dongle is critical, and the interface (unlike traditional data mode interfaces for PSK31, etc.) must contain no filters. But the price is right: Free if you build your own interface between soundcard and radio. Jonathan may support a gmsk or node adapter interface some time in the future, but for now it is soundcard based. One further note -- For a while, I did some digital voice on 20 meters using the FDMDV program that used the MELP codec. This used a fairly narrow bandwidth, about the same as SSB. But it turned out MELP was encumbered with license restrictions that none of us initially knew about. When we found out, that version died immediately. What I learned was digital voice can be done long range with a skip signal as long as conditions are nearly perfect, with little multipath, phase changes or QSB. But, those conditions are not uncommon if you are patient, so I'm hoping to have some long range D_Star QSOs on 10 meters. The bandwidth is theoretically 6.25 hHz, but in practice it is wider than that, hence in my opinion, it would not be advisable in FCC jurisdictions on 160 through 15m. I think on 10 and 6m it could be fun. But I will not use it during a lively contest. Just too wide at that time. Jim - K6JM
Re: [digitalradio] Fwd: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000
There are people who probably have the answers to the points you make since some have already had DX QSOs using D-Star -- I haven't, so I'm looking to try this out on 10 meters. Mostly I think your prediction will turn out to be correct. I am expecting that only under near-perfect conditions between the two parties will D-Star make it via HF propagation. My experience on VHF is that it's extremely susceptible to multipath. On the other hand, during previous sunspot cycles, I've experienced near-perfect conditions on 10 meters. I definitely would not see the present D-Star for everyday digital voice on HF, though I can see some value in a 6 meter repeater, and some 10 meter activity, with callsign routing, repeater/reflector linking, low speed data, short messages, etc. 10 meters has a lot of real estate, so I would think the wider bandwidth of D-Star will not be un-neighborly except possibly during a busy contest. But then, that's true of a lot of modes on HF during contests. It will be fun to watch David Lowe's Codec2 project evolve and see how narrow a bandwidth he can achieve. For everyday DV on HF, that may be the best path. In the meantime, I'd just like to experiment and learn. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Fwd: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000 I have to agree that it would be interesting to experiment with the D-Star modem, but it doesn't seem practical for HF. In addition to gobbling up a fair amount of spectrum, I suspect that it would be difficult to maintain the required SNR with a modem that's 6KHz wide. The narrow-band FDMDV modem worked out well by not only improving sensitivity over WinDRM, but by allowing one to squeeze the signal between the adjacent QRM. The modems quick recover time was a real plus as well - not sure how long it takes for the D-Star modem to re-sync. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Fwd: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000
Jim, It would be interesting to see how the D-Star modem performs so please keep us in the loop. From what I gather, the modem for Dave's codec will not be as narrow as the one used for FDMDV. It will still use Peter's FDM modem, but the bandwidth will most likely be closer to 2KHz. Tony -K2MO On 9/7/2010 3:50 PM, J. Moen wrote: There are people who probably have the answers to the points you make since some have already had DX QSOs using D-Star -- I haven't, so I'm looking to try this out on 10 meters. Mostly I think your prediction will turn out to be correct. I am expecting that only under near-perfect conditions between the two parties will D-Star make it via HF propagation. My experience on VHF is that it's extremely susceptible to multipath. On the other hand, during previous sunspot cycles, I've experienced near-perfect conditions on 10 meters. I definitely would not see the present D-Star for everyday digital voice on HF, though I can see some value in a 6 meter repeater, and some 10 meter activity, with callsign routing, repeater/reflector linking, low speed data, short messages, etc. 10 meters has a lot of real estate, so I would think the wider bandwidth of D-Star will not be un-neighborly except possibly during a busy contest. But then, that's true of a lot of modes on HF during contests. It will be fun to watch David Lowe's Codec2 project evolve and see how narrow a bandwidth he can achieve. For everyday DV on HF, that may be the best path. In the meantime, I'd just like to experiment and learn. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - *From:* Tony mailto:d...@optonline.net *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 12:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Fwd: [KenwoodTS-2000] D-Star with the TS-2000 I have to agree that it would be interesting to experiment with the D-Star modem, but it doesn't seem practical for HF. In addition to gobbling up a fair amount of spectrum, I suspect that it would be difficult to maintain the required SNR with a modem that's 6KHz wide. The narrow-band FDMDV modem worked out well by not only improving sensitivity over WinDRM, but by allowing one to squeeze the signal between the adjacent QRM. The modems quick recover time was a real plus as well - not sure how long it takes for the D-Star modem to re-sync. Tony -K2MO