[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, vsmith269 lmcoy...@... wrote: Interesting idea with enough design challenges to make it fun. Have you given any thought to the RX end - decoding the received RTTY? I would love to see (and use) a system like this. Backpacking with an RTTY setup would be neat. I'm not so sure. RTTY may be easy to generate but it's such an inefficient mode, you'd need to run a lot more power compared to say PSK31 to get the same chance of being received. Julian, G4ILO
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
In your MMTTY folder (the one that contains the file mmtty.exe), is the file extfsk.dll present? No. n fact that file is nowhere to be found on the machine at all :-( So guess I need to go back to your download page and find it. Its all getting too complicated - the design was a request for a simple Tx for beginners that wasn't yet another CW QRP transmitter - and I was hoping RTTY would be as dead-simple to get going as it used to be back in the days of yore. Clearly not. It might even be easier to wrirte my own simple RTTY Tx terminal in VB6. Waggling the TXD line using the MSComm1.Break = True/False function will do the job if timing can be assured. And to the others who made comments - Setting the shift is part of the self education process - I suggested they use Spectran or SpecLab on thre output on an SSB Rx to set up the shift at test. Only a case of tweaking a preset R FeldHell or whatever isn't an option. Its not on/off keyed - quite intentionally - and FSK Hell needs more setting up than RTTY. Next time a request like that arrives, I'll be boring and just give them an I/Q upconverter + linear amp. Which reminds me - where is all that datmode software that delivers I/Q stereo outputs. Its only another line or two of code surely. Andy www.g4jnt.com
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
Tongue in cheek I hope :) I do think this is the easiest way to go. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Which reminds me - where is all that datmode software that delivers I/Q stereo outputs. Its only another line or two of code surely.
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
Hi Andy. If you are up to something simple, reliable and useful, I have a proposal for a PSK31 transmitter. With a VFO, fast XOR gate and a CW shaping circuit you may generate a decent PSK31 signal. You just need a cheap controller to control the XOR gate and CW on/off. I developed a simple protocol, where the commands for the XOR gate and CW on/off are modulated synchronously by a sound card and decoded by a simple algorithm on a cheap controller. Any DIP part (Atmel or PIC) would do. I am currently writing an article for QEX, but I can give you more detail if you like the idea. What I am proposing is an offspring of an already proven concept. http://www.kufr.cz/~ok1iak/HAM/ATS3a-digital/index.php3 http://www.kufr.cz/~ok1iak/HAM/ATS3b/index.php3 http://www.kufr.cz/~ok1iak/HAM/WSPR/index.php3 The commands over sound card protocol is supported by PocketDigi http://sourceforge.net/projects/pocketdigi/ http://www.n0hr.com/PocketDigi/PocketDigi_intro.htm The firmware for the MSP430 controller of the ATS-3b is freely available. 73, Vojtech OK1IAK, AB2ZA
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
AA6YQ comments below -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of IMR Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:04 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation In your MMTTY folder (the one that contains the file mmtty.exe), is the file extfsk.dll present? No. n fact that file is nowhere to be found on the machine at all :-( The standard MMTTY installation package includes EXTFSK.dll So guess I need to go back to your download page and find it. I sent you a copy via email. Its all getting too complicated - the design was a request for a simple Tx for beginners that wasn't yet another CW QRP transmitter - and I was hoping RTTY would be as dead-simple to get going as it used to be back in the days of yore. Clearly not. It might even be easier to wrirte my own simple RTTY Tx terminal in VB6. Waggling the TXD line using the MSComm1.Break = True/False function will do the job if timing can be assured. Travelling to Alpha Centauri will be easy if the Warp Drive can be assured. 73, Dave, AA6YQ
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
Andy, You said: FeldHell or whatever isn't an option. Its not on/off keyed - quite intentionally - and FSK Hell needs more setting up than RTTY. In it's simplest form Feld Hellschreiber IS on/off keyed! That's the way Rudolf Hell did it back in 1929. I seem to remember a dos program from years ago that simply toggled either a serial port bit (or parallel port bit) and you could use that to drive a simple transmitter. Nowadays as most people don't have either serial or parallel ports on their computer, the sound card is the most accessible port and by constructing a simple threshold detector switch you could achieve the same result. 73 Sholto K7TMG --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, IMR ac.tal...@... wrote: In your MMTTY folder (the one that contains the file mmtty.exe), is the file extfsk.dll present? No. n fact that file is nowhere to be found on the machine at all :-( So guess I need to go back to your download page and find it. Its all getting too complicated - the design was a request for a simple Tx for beginners that wasn't yet another CW QRP transmitter - and I was hoping RTTY would be as dead-simple to get going as it used to be back in the days of yore. Clearly not. It might even be easier to wrirte my own simple RTTY Tx terminal in VB6. Waggling the TXD line using the MSComm1.Break = True/False function will do the job if timing can be assured. And to the others who made comments - Setting the shift is part of the self education process - I suggested they use Spectran or SpecLab on thre output on an SSB Rx to set up the shift at test. Only a case of tweaking a preset R FeldHell or whatever isn't an option. Its not on/off keyed - quite intentionally - and FSK Hell needs more setting up than RTTY. Next time a request like that arrives, I'll be boring and just give them an I/Q upconverter + linear amp. Which reminds me - where is all that datmode software that delivers I/Q stereo outputs. Its only another line or two of code surely. Andy www.g4jnt.com
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
How will you get the shift correct? Doesn't have to be too exact but does have to be +/- 25% or so. I was thinking about this while walking the dog - for a simple solution a SoftRock v6.3 would maybe a simpler / better hardware solution but you'll need more presky software :) Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com A simple QRP Tx suitable for beginners, for example, is usually the ubiquitous 1 Watt 40m thing for CW that all the magazines and book seem include ad-ad-naueam, built into sweet tins or whatever novel box they can think of.I want to be different, and publish a design for RTTY. A simple varicap across a crystal, needing a bit of applied science with SSB Rx and Spectrogram prog to set the shift - all part of the basic learning process. But to do that needs a way of driving the Tx with a wire that just waggles 1/0 with RTTY data - just like the mechanical teleprinters of old. So long as it does it at 45 or 50 baud and is properly timed (perhaps not so easy using Windoze - could this be why there's nothing out there?) I wanted to steer away from a design that linearly upconverted from a soundcard then filtered and amplified the result.The request was for simple designs for beginners
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
OK Tnx... found the COM port output facility and got it working on a Desktop with a proper COM1. But when I tried a USB COM port - as suspected it wouldn't work directly. On trying the EXTFSK option, it just comes back with a message that says Can't Configure EXTFSK Downloaded the latest MMTTY version 1.66G, just to make sure. What I'm not sure about, if EXTFSK is set as the data output option, how does the software know which USB Comport is to be used for its output of the data - if that makes sense :-) One FTDI USB COM port appears as COM 2 on this machine, another one as COM5 and a third one as COM 15. (I do have several more as well, all made from FT232 chips. Use the interface for everything)So how can it identify which of these is the one to use for EXTFSK ?? Andy www.g4jnt.com(author of the 'Data' and 'Design Notes' Columns in 'RadCom') MMTTY provides this FSK signal via the TxD pin of the serial port specified in the PTT FSK panel on the Setup MMTTY window's TX tab. Since using this signal requires a serial port capable of 45 baud operation, which some USB-to-serial-port-adaptors can't do, you can set the PTT FSK panel's port selector to EXTFSK, which displays a window that lets you configure the generation of an FSK signal on a serial port's RTS or DTR pins. In this latter configuration, the timing of the FSK signal is software-generated, and thus less accurate than that generated by a 45 baud serial port. Digital mode applications that use MMTTY as their RTTY Engine -- WinWarbler, HamScope, etc. -- thus offer this capability. While I realise there may be little call for such a one-wire drive now Not true! Modern transceivers provide RX filtering for RTTY that is only availalble when the transceiver is operated in RTTY mode, thus requiring the FSK signal when transmitting. Icom's ic-7200, ic-7600, ic-7700, and ic-7800 all provide a very nice twin-peak filter that is only available in RTTY mode. 73, Dave, AA6YQ
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
At 04:42 AM 8/4/2010, you wrote (in part): I was thinking about this while walking the dog - Now that's a new one. Bets the last number one answer to the age old thinking question..
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
Actually at the moment I'm adding the DM780 decoder into my SDR-RADIO.com console, the decoder is driven with the AF output for now. When I'm ready I'll add support for driving the decoders with the data received from the SDR radio, the only processing between the radio and the decoder being a NCO mixer and high-quality decimator (converts the 200kHz input bandwidth to 8kHz). It'll be very interesting to see how the decoders will be improved with this setup, then I will improve the decoders themselves, especially PSK and RTTY. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Becker, WØJAB Sent: 04 August 2010 16:24 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation At 04:42 AM 8/4/2010, you wrote (in part): I was thinking about this while walking the dog - Now that's a new one. Bets the last number one answer to the age old thinking question..
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
AA6YQ comments below -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of IMR Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 9:09 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation OK Tnx... found the COM port output facility and got it working on a Desktop with a proper COM1. But when I tried a USB COM port - as suspected it wouldn't work directly. On trying the EXTFSK option, it just comes back with a message that says Can't Configure EXTFSK Downloaded the latest MMTTY version 1.66G, just to make sure. In your MMTTY folder (the one that contains the file mmtty.exe), is the file extfsk.dll present? What I'm not sure about, if EXTFSK is set as the data output option, how does the software know which USB Comport is to be used for its output of the data - if that makes sense :-) When you configure MMTTY to use EXTFSK for FSK output, an EXTFSK window appears that lets you select the serial port, as well as the serial port pin (TxD, RTS, DTR) that will be used to generate the FSK signal. 73, Dave, AA6YQ
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
I've just read the original post and another thing to consider might be to try Feld Hell instead of RTTY. You wouldn't need to worry about any frequency shift that way, just use a simple transistor switch arranged to key the osc/tx from the audio pulses from the sound card. It would be completely non-linear of course but at the 1W level I don't think much of a problem but if needed you could design a filter to round off the edges a little... Feld Hell is also a lot more sensitive than RTTY and you might actually have some success at the 1W level... 73 Sholto K7TMG --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, IMR ac.tal...@... wrote: OK Tnx... found the COM port output facility and got it working on a Desktop with a proper COM1. But when I tried a USB COM port - as suspected it wouldn't work directly. On trying the EXTFSK option, it just comes back with a message that says Can't Configure EXTFSK Downloaded the latest MMTTY version 1.66G, just to make sure. What I'm not sure about, if EXTFSK is set as the data output option, how does the software know which USB Comport is to be used for its output of the data - if that makes sense :-) One FTDI USB COM port appears as COM 2 on this machine, another one as COM5 and a third one as COM 15. (I do have several more as well, all made from FT232 chips. Use the interface for everything)So how can it identify which of these is the one to use for EXTFSK ?? Andy www.g4jnt.com(author of the 'Data' and 'Design Notes' Columns in 'RadCom') MMTTY provides this FSK signal via the TxD pin of the serial port specified in the PTT FSK panel on the Setup MMTTY window's TX tab. Since using this signal requires a serial port capable of 45 baud operation, which some USB-to-serial-port-adaptors can't do, you can set the PTT FSK panel's port selector to EXTFSK, which displays a window that lets you configure the generation of an FSK signal on a serial port's RTS or DTR pins. In this latter configuration, the timing of the FSK signal is software-generated, and thus less accurate than that generated by a 45 baud serial port. Digital mode applications that use MMTTY as their RTTY Engine -- WinWarbler, HamScope, etc. -- thus offer this capability. While I realise there may be little call for such a one-wire drive now Not true! Modern transceivers provide RX filtering for RTTY that is only availalble when the transceiver is operated in RTTY mode, thus requiring the FSK signal when transmitting. Icom's ic-7200, ic-7600, ic-7700, and ic-7800 all provide a very nice twin-peak filter that is only available in RTTY mode. 73, Dave, AA6YQ
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
A simple QRP Tx suitable for beginners, for example, is usually the ubiquitous 1 Watt 40m thing for CW that all the magazines and book seem include ad-ad-naueam, built into sweet tins or whatever novel box they can think of. I want to be different, and publish a design for RTTY. A simple varicap across a crystal, needing a bit of applied science with SSB Rx and Spectrogram prog to set the shift - all part of the basic learning process. But to do that needs a way of driving the Tx with a wire that just waggles 1/0 with RTTY data - just like the mechanical teleprinters of old. So long as it does it at 45 or 50 baud and is properly timed (perhaps not so easy using Windoze - could this be why there's nothing out there?) I wanted to steer away from a design that linearly upconverted from a soundcard then filtered and amplified the result.The request was for simple designs for beginners Andy --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: Andy, Can you be more specific about the design requirements? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AC TALBOT
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
I think my FT-450 does that, just one pin on the CAT port, or the Data port, where is my manual page 74. ve3bdr From: IMR Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:34 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation A simple QRP Tx suitable for beginners, for example, is usually the ubiquitous 1 Watt 40m thing for CW that all the magazines and book seem include ad-ad-naueam, built into sweet tins or whatever novel box they can think of. I want to be different, and publish a design for RTTY. A simple varicap across a crystal, needing a bit of applied science with SSB Rx and Spectrogram prog to set the shift - all part of the basic learning process. But to do that needs a way of driving the Tx with a wire that just waggles 1/0 with RTTY data - just like the mechanical teleprinters of old. So long as it does it at 45 or 50 baud and is properly timed (perhaps not so easy using Windoze - could this be why there's nothing out there?) I wanted to steer away from a design that linearly upconverted from a soundcard then filtered and amplified the result. The request was for simple designs for beginners Andy --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: Andy, Can you be more specific about the design requirements? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AC TALBOT No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3047 - Release Date: 08/03/10 02:35:00
AW: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
I know that the old hamcom software does this . In rtty and cw mode is sends the data 1:1 out on a serial pin on the rs 232 . I know this exactly as I made a mod in my hamcom modem. In rx the transistor is always set to high so I had to connect the ptt transistor and the fsk transistor in series (connector of one going to emitter of the other . I cutted the ground connection of the fsk transistor and connected that to the collector of the ptt transistor So with that soft you surely can do this The soft runs well in a dosbox (as I know) You wanna go cheap? Take an old laptop with win98 on it A slow one will work okay with it and on the older ones you will have a better chance to find a rs 232 Greetz Dg9bfc On this 2 pages you will find lots of hamsoft for digi modes (also older ones) http://www.xs4all.nl/~nl9222/software.htm http://www.xs4all.nl/~nl9222/digisoft.htm _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von IMR Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. August 2010 13:34 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation A simple QRP Tx suitable for beginners, for example, is usually the ubiquitous 1 Watt 40m thing for CW that all the magazines and book seem include ad-ad-naueam, built into sweet tins or whatever novel box they can think of. I want to be different, and publish a design for RTTY. A simple varicap across a crystal, needing a bit of applied science with SSB Rx and Spectrogram prog to set the shift - all part of the basic learning process. But to do that needs a way of driving the Tx with a wire that just waggles 1/0 with RTTY data - just like the mechanical teleprinters of old. So long as it does it at 45 or 50 baud and is properly timed (perhaps not so easy using Windoze - could this be why there's nothing out there?) I wanted to steer away from a design that linearly upconverted from a soundcard then filtered and amplified the result. The request was for simple designs for beginners Andy --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com , Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: Andy, Can you be more specific about the design requirements? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of AC TALBOT
[digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
Simon Just checed the help file of mmtty ''Prepare for FSK'' it uses the COM port to out put the FSK signal .. much the same as CW-type uses the com port for cw tx via a transistor switch , or any of the data software uses the CO port as a T/R switch . I think 'delfi' has the ability to out put a 'fabricated' serial data stream via the com port , may be has a versitile port driver in the package ? G .. from the mmtty help files :- The ground for this FSK signal is pin 5 on the serial DB-9 and pin 7 on the serial DB-25. On the right is the switched output to the FSK input on the radio. With this circuit, when MMTTY sends a space (current off) the transistor switch is open and when it sends a mark (current on) the transistor switch is closed. This same circuit is used for push-to-talk, see Using a Serial Port to Control PTT, but it is connected to different pins on the serial port. --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: Andy, Can you be more specific about the design requirements? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AC TALBOT
AW: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation
And hamcom modem is cheap Just an opamp powerd from the rs232 .. Used as komparator So you need no soundcard ... What about using an si570 for the vfo? And there is a lcd circuit for controlling the si570 . That would give a nice cw psk rtty trx Dg9bfc Sigi _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Siegfried Jackstien Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. August 2010 16:36 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: AW: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation I know that the old hamcom software does this . In rtty and cw mode is sends the data 1:1 out on a serial pin on the rs 232 . I know this exactly as I made a mod in my hamcom modem. In rx the transistor is always set to high so I had to connect the ptt transistor and the fsk transistor in series (connector of one going to emitter of the other . I cutted the ground connection of the fsk transistor and connected that to the collector of the ptt transistor So with that soft you surely can do this The soft runs well in a dosbox (as I know) You wanna go cheap? Take an old laptop with win98 on it A slow one will work okay with it and on the older ones you will have a better chance to find a rs 232 Greetz Dg9bfc On this 2 pages you will find lots of hamsoft for digi modes (also older ones) http://www.xs4all. http://www.xs4all.nl/~nl9222/software.htm nl/~nl9222/software.htm http://www.xs4all. http://www.xs4all.nl/~nl9222/digisoft.htm nl/~nl9222/digisoft.htm _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von IMR Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. August 2010 13:34 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [digitalradio] Re: Direct RTTY Generation A simple QRP Tx suitable for beginners, for example, is usually the ubiquitous 1 Watt 40m thing for CW that all the magazines and book seem include ad-ad-naueam, built into sweet tins or whatever novel box they can think of. I want to be different, and publish a design for RTTY. A simple varicap across a crystal, needing a bit of applied science with SSB Rx and Spectrogram prog to set the shift - all part of the basic learning process. But to do that needs a way of driving the Tx with a wire that just waggles 1/0 with RTTY data - just like the mechanical teleprinters of old. So long as it does it at 45 or 50 baud and is properly timed (perhaps not so easy using Windoze - could this be why there's nothing out there?) I wanted to steer away from a design that linearly upconverted from a soundcard then filtered and amplified the result. The request was for simple designs for beginners Andy --- In digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: Andy, Can you be more specific about the design requirements? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio. http://sdr-radio.com com From: digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AC TALBOT
