Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thursday 10 June 2010 18:30:52 Matthew Seaman wrote: On 10/06/2010 17:12:50, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:12:48 +0200 Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za articulated: Isn't that called VERP (variable envelope return path)? I agree - the load it would impose isn't worth it. I'm just shocked that midphase care so little about their reputation or the impression this is giving, on one of the more widely-archived mailing lists, of their competence and diligence. I have employed VERP with mailing lists that I controlled. I never noticed any adverse effects. I know of several technical lists like Dovecot that employ it. Obviously, they find it useful. VERP itself is reasonably lightweight, as it modifies the envelope sender address -- something that can be applied during processing by the MTA as part of sending the message. As far as mail delivery goes, that's a very different story -- it goes from one message with tens of thousands of recipients, to tens of thousands of messages each with one recipient. Exactly - you can't batch up all the messages for users at the same domain because they now have different envelope senders. The impact of that on your mail delivery system (and the receiver's SMTP receiving system) depends on whether you have lots of individual subscribers, or several large groups. Having said that, I looked up VERP last night to check that I was right about the extra load, and came across a reference to VERP being the idea of DJB, and being acceptable to qmail users because there's no penalty load - qmail never batches up messages for the same domain, always sending each one individually. Is that true? It seems an odd design decision to me. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:04:21 +0200, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za said: J I looked up VERP last night to check that I was right about the extra J load, and came across a reference to VERP being the idea of DJB, and J being acceptable to qmail users because there's no penalty load - qmail J never batches up messages for the same domain, always sending each one J individually. Is that true? It seems an odd design decision to me. That decision has been the subject of countless arguments. Here's the rationale, according to The Qmail Handbook. You have these basic choices when sending a message to three users on the same host: 1. Open an SMTP connection to the server, send a copy to user1, another copy to user2, the last to user3, close the connection. 2. Start three processes. Each one opens an SMTP connection, sends a copy to one user, and closes. 3. Open an SMTP connection to the server, send one copy addressed to all three recipients, close the connection. (1) is the worst; if the message is small, it takes at least as much time as (3). If the message is huge, it takes a lot longer and wastes bandwidth. (3) is most efficient in terms of network bandwidth. (2) is what qmail uses. It wastes bandwidth but allows SMTP round-trip delays to occur in parallel, so it's usually faster than (3). It's simpler than (3) so the MTA code is easier to write and verify. Finally, you can use VERP because each user gets their own copy. There are pathological cases where it's slower than (3), but VERP allows bad bounces to be handled automatically, and this plus the code simplicity was considered more important. The bandwidth difference was often exaggerated because: a. most messages have multiple recipients *on separate hosts*, so (3) would not be possible in the first place, and b. SMTP usually takes up a small fraction of the bandwidth on a given host compared to (say) HTTP. If SMTP takes 10% of your bandwidth and you can save 25% of that by using method (3), now it will take 7.5%. -- Karl Vogel I don't speak for the USAF or my company Freedom is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. --George Orwell ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Midphase Hosting
So, it would appear that Midphase hosting are still incapable of working out why their ticketing system is sending replies with forged From: address to posters to the freebsd-questions mailing list. (Their support queue is at mpcustomer.com). I'm assuming the list admins already have examples to work with, but here is a set of headers from the reply I got to my last list post, in case it's any help. Return-Path: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx.ru.ac.za (mx.ru.ac.za [2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:2ebb]) by imap.ru.ac.za (Cyrus v###) with LMTPA; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:05:39 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve Envelope-to: j.mcke...@ru.ac.za Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:05:39 +0200 Received: from secure.mpcustomer.com ([208.43.146.75]:46852) by mx.ru.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@freebsd.org) id 1OMcld-000Eww-H3 for j.mcke...@ru.ac.za; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:05:39 +0200 Received: by secure.mpcustomer.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 4841C1532997; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 (CDT) To: Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID: e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer (phpmailer.sourceforge.net) [version 2.0.4] X-Uberinst: uber_phase-support X-Mailer: Ubersmith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
Hi, Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID:e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com I suggest to block on the freebsd server the complete domain mpcustomer.com that should solve the problem. It is really anyoing. I had already contact with the postmaster and he was unable to do anything. Bye, Matthias -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rich Cook ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: I'm assuming the list admins already have examples to work with, but here is a set of headers from the reply I got to my last list post, in case it's any help. for everyone how does not want this mails anymore but into your /etc/mail/access the following line: Connect:secure.mpcustomer.com ERROR:550 We don't accept mail from spammers Bye, Matthias -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rich Cook ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Matthias Fechner ide...@fechner.net wrote: Hi, Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID:e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com I suggest to block on the freebsd server the complete domain mpcustomer.com that should solve the problem. I haven't received any of the messages, but I think they are being sent directly to list posters (not via the list) so FreeBSD can't really do much about it. If mpcustomer.com refuses to deal with it you can always try complaining to their upstream provider, taking the line that since the messages are unsolicited and there is no way to unsubscribe the practice is probably illegal. -- Rob Farmer It is really anyoing. I had already contact with the postmaster and he was unable to do anything. Bye, Matthias -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rich Cook ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thursday 10 June 2010 14:06:46 Rob Farmer wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Matthias Fechner ide...@fechner.net wrote: Hi, Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID:e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com I suggest to block on the freebsd server the complete domain mpcustomer.com that should solve the problem. I haven't received any of the messages, but I think they are being sent directly to list posters (not via the list) so FreeBSD can't really do much about it. If mpcustomer.com refuses to deal with it you can always try complaining to their upstream provider, taking the line that since the messages are unsolicited and there is no way to unsubscribe the practice is probably illegal. Well, yes, the message is being sent direct to list posters, but supp...@mpcustomer.com (or some address that's relaying to it) is presumably subscribed to the list (which I'm guessing was done maliciously), otherwise they wouldn't be receiving these messages. I know it creates work for the admins, but couldn't their address be unsubscribed and banned, given that they have been creating a nuisance for at least the last several weeks now? Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:32 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Thursday 10 June 2010 14:06:46 Rob Farmer wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Matthias Fechner ide...@fechner.net wrote: Hi, Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID:e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com I suggest to block on the freebsd server the complete domain mpcustomer.com that should solve the problem. I haven't received any of the messages, but I think they are being sent directly to list posters (not via the list) so FreeBSD can't really do much about it. If mpcustomer.com refuses to deal with it you can always try complaining to their upstream provider, taking the line that since the messages are unsolicited and there is no way to unsubscribe the practice is probably illegal. Well, yes, the message is being sent direct to list posters, but supp...@mpcustomer.com (or some address that's relaying to it) is presumably subscribed to the list (which I'm guessing was done maliciously), otherwise they wouldn't be receiving these messages. I know it creates work for the admins, but couldn't their address be unsubscribed and banned, given that they have been creating a nuisance for at least the last several weeks now? They posted in a previous thread about this, saying they couldn't unsubscribe under their address, ie. somebody is relaying mail to them. They were told they need to provide headers so postmaster can determine what address is subscribed. They never replied (at least on list). I'm not an expert about such things but I think without their cooperation there's no real way to tell who the relay is. -- Rob Farmer Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/06/2010 13:32:23, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I know it creates work for the admins, but couldn't their address be unsubscribed and banned, given that they have been creating a nuisance for at least the last several weeks now? Sure. Just tell postmas...@freebsd.org *what* address mpcustomer.com is subscribed as. Hint: it's nothing to do with mpcustomer.com -- that was the first thing checked. Now, in order to work out how mpcustomer.com is subscribed to this list, the obvious thing to do is examine the headers of any list e-mail as received at their help system. Or examining mpcustomer.com's mail logs to correlate the incoming e-mails with the host(s) relaying them. That involves mpcustomer.com spending some time and effort investigating, and that seems to be something they are not doing. Not a good advert for them, but they don't seem at all bothered by any potential loss of reputation. The only other mechanism might be to tag each list e-mail with a unique value for each recipient in such a way that it is preserved in the message that mpcustomer.com's help system sends out. That has severe problems of scale and load on the FreeBSD mail servers, but it might be possible. There is a similar technique (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) that some mailing lists use where they tag the envelope sender address with the recipient name in order to identify addresses that are bouncing back the list e-mail. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkwQ4vUACgkQ8Mjk52CukIz4YACfa2Vzf3K+i4nsn7YoSU83Iw5o iWIAn2OSX4rCPsKb6bwvYaWKp5K5C2Wd =JgcF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thursday 10 June 2010 14:51:42 Rob Farmer wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:32 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: [rant about midphase hosting and mpcustomer.com] They posted in a previous thread about this, saying they couldn't unsubscribe under their address, ie. somebody is relaying mail to them. They were told they need to provide headers so postmaster can determine what address is subscribed. They never replied (at least on list). I'm not an expert about such things but I think without their cooperation there's no real way to tell who the relay is. So this is a hosting company that has had (assuming everyone else is having the same experience as I am, namely one ticket per posting) almost 500 junk tickets added to their support queue in the last ten days (476 messages on the freebsd-questions archive for June when I checked a moment ago), and either can't think of a way to address the issue, or doesn't actually care enough to do anything about it, all the while presumably having real support requests swamped in the noise? I'd be jumping up and down looking for a solution by now (in fact I would have been weeks ago - can anyone remember how long this has been happening?). Jonathan (I should probably stress that I am not speaking on behalf of my employer and my opinions are entirely my own). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
In response to Rob Farmer rfar...@predatorlabs.net: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:32 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Thursday 10 June 2010 14:06:46 Rob Farmer wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Matthias Fechner ide...@fechner.net wrote: Hi, Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID:e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com I suggest to block on the freebsd server the complete domain mpcustomer.com that should solve the problem. I haven't received any of the messages, but I think they are being sent directly to list posters (not via the list) so FreeBSD can't really do much about it. If mpcustomer.com refuses to deal with it you can always try complaining to their upstream provider, taking the line that since the messages are unsolicited and there is no way to unsubscribe the practice is probably illegal. Well, yes, the message is being sent direct to list posters, but supp...@mpcustomer.com (or some address that's relaying to it) is presumably subscribed to the list (which I'm guessing was done maliciously), otherwise they wouldn't be receiving these messages. I know it creates work for the admins, but couldn't their address be unsubscribed and banned, given that they have been creating a nuisance for at least the last several weeks now? They posted in a previous thread about this, saying they couldn't unsubscribe under their address, ie. somebody is relaying mail to them. They were told they need to provide headers so postmaster can determine what address is subscribed. They never replied (at least on list). I'm not an expert about such things but I think without their cooperation there's no real way to tell who the relay is. I host my own mail server. The published terms of service warn that I will charge people for time spent reading/investigating/otherwise dealing with unsolicited mail: http://www.potentialtech.com/cms/node/9 Whether or not this is legally enforceable has yet to be seen. And in most cases, it's completely useless (i.e., spam coming from China, or a single email from a single breach where the sysadmins are johnny on the spot getting things cleaned up). However, in cases where there is a continuing problem, I've found that contacting the admins and pointing out that their failure to solve the issue will result in an invoice will get people to get off their ass and do their job. I recommend posting similar terms of service for all of you who host your own emails/sites/whatever. Also, if I get spam in response to this message, I will contact the spammer to notify them of the terms they are violating, which may get things cleared up all by itself. And if it continues, who knows, I may get my first opportunity to see if that TOS holds up in court. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thursday 10 June 2010 15:04:53 Matthew Seaman wrote: The only other mechanism might be to tag each list e-mail with a unique value for each recipient in such a way that it is preserved in the message that mpcustomer.com's help system sends out. That has severe problems of scale and load on the FreeBSD mail servers, but it might be possible. There is a similar technique (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) that some mailing lists use where they tag the envelope sender address with the recipient name in order to identify addresses that are bouncing back the list e-mail. Isn't that called VERP (variable envelope return path)? I agree - the load it would impose isn't worth it. I'm just shocked that midphase care so little about their reputation or the impression this is giving, on one of the more widely-archived mailing lists, of their competence and diligence. I'll shut up now. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:09 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Thursday 10 June 2010 14:51:42 Rob Farmer wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:32 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: [rant about midphase hosting and mpcustomer.com] They posted in a previous thread about this, saying they couldn't unsubscribe under their address, ie. somebody is relaying mail to them. They were told they need to provide headers so postmaster can determine what address is subscribed. They never replied (at least on list). I'm not an expert about such things but I think without their cooperation there's no real way to tell who the relay is. So this is a hosting company that has had (assuming everyone else is having the same experience as I am, namely one ticket per posting) almost 500 junk tickets added to their support queue in the last ten days (476 messages on the freebsd-questions archive for June when I checked a moment ago), and either can't think of a way to address the issue, or doesn't actually care enough to do anything about it, all the while presumably having real support requests swamped in the noise? I'd be jumping up and down looking for a solution by now (in fact I would have been weeks ago - can anyone remember how long this has been happening?). Agreed - if this was a small non-profit with no technical staff it might be understandable, but they are supposedly a web host. As Matthew just mentioned, this is not good advertising for them. Looking on the bright side - at least you know who *not* to go with for your next web site. -- Rob Farmer Jonathan (I should probably stress that I am not speaking on behalf of my employer and my opinions are entirely my own). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/06/2010 14:12:48, Jonathan McKeown wrote: Isn't that called VERP (variable envelope return path)? I agree - the load it Dat's der bunny. would impose isn't worth it. I'm just shocked that midphase care so little about their reputation or the impression this is giving, on one of the more widely-archived mailing lists, of their competence and diligence. Who knows? I suspect if the story got carried on slashdot or theregister it might cause their management to wake up. Or if the story started showing up on the first page of a Google search. (Fat chance of that though -- they've obviously been working hard on the SEO) Until then, as someone upthread said, block them using your access DB if you run your own sendmail based mail system. The equivalents for people running other MTAs are left as exercises for interested students. If you don't have your own mail system, then I suspect that it will be quite hard for you to arrange to block the e-mail from midphase. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkwQ6QAACgkQ8Mjk52CukIzHNgCgg1hFw5qMkPNA0y+wV33fyA54 A+cAn22AA51QJqYsN3EdLAobF1oTGEW7 =+8uO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
Am 10.06.10 15:30, schrieb Matthew Seaman: Until then, as someone upthread said, block them using your access DB if you run your own sendmail based mail system. The equivalents for people running other MTAs are left as exercises for interested students. If you don't have your own mail system, then I suspect that it will be quite hard for you to arrange to block the e-mail from midphase. is it possible to get there hostname/IP-address to some spamer blacklists? That should solve the problem for a lot of people. Bye, Matthias -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rich Cook ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Thu Jun 10 06:25:02 2010 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:24:55 +0200 From: Matthias Fechner ide...@fechner.net To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Midphase Hosting Hi, Am 10.06.10 11:47, schrieb Jonathan McKeown: Subject: [#24548754] Re: why does ps |grep sometimes not return itself? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:46:31 -0500 From: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: supp...@mpcustomer.com Message-ID:e436b556aafa1c4bd0f2c367a0097...@secure.mpcustomer.com I suggest to block on the freebsd server the complete domain mpcustomer.com that should solve the problem. It is really anyoing. I had already contact with the postmaster and he was unable to do anything. Blocking on the freeBSD server will accomplish -nothing-, unfortunately. Some idiot subscribed -- and *confirmed* -- *their* address to the mailing list (the Midphase ticket system is _not_ subscribed), and then aliased or forwarded that address to the supp...@mpcustomer.com ticket system. As such, it is effectively _impossible_ for the list owner to resolve the problem. The required information is simply _not_ available at the origin. The *ONLY* people who can resolve the problem _IS_ the Midphase mail admin. All he needs to do is check the *complete* headers for one of the list messages _as_received_ by Midphase, and see who the _original_ addressee is. THEN that address can be unsubscribed, and the problem is solved. A week or so ago, the usual 'monthly subscribtuion notification' went out to all users. THAT message alone, in the message _BODY_ had the info that MidPhase would needed to act, had they cared to. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:12:48 +0200 Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za articulated: On Thursday 10 June 2010 15:04:53 Matthew Seaman wrote: The only other mechanism might be to tag each list e-mail with a unique value for each recipient in such a way that it is preserved in the message that mpcustomer.com's help system sends out. That has severe problems of scale and load on the FreeBSD mail servers, but it might be possible. There is a similar technique (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) that some mailing lists use where they tag the envelope sender address with the recipient name in order to identify addresses that are bouncing back the list e-mail. Isn't that called VERP (variable envelope return path)? I agree - the load it would impose isn't worth it. I'm just shocked that midphase care so little about their reputation or the impression this is giving, on one of the more widely-archived mailing lists, of their competence and diligence. I have employed VERP with mailing lists that I controlled. I never noticed any adverse effects. I know of several technical lists like Dovecot that employ it. Obviously, they find it useful. -- Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ If you have a hill to climb, waiting won't make it smaller. Anonymous ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/06/2010 15:13:39, Matthias Fechner wrote: Am 10.06.10 15:30, schrieb Matthew Seaman: Until then, as someone upthread said, block them using your access DB if you run your own sendmail based mail system. The equivalents for people running other MTAs are left as exercises for interested students. If you don't have your own mail system, then I suspect that it will be quite hard for you to arrange to block the e-mail from midphase. is it possible to get there hostname/IP-address to some spamer blacklists? That should solve the problem for a lot of people. I believe they are already on rfc-ignorant -- yep: http://www.robtex.com/dns/secure.mpcustomer.com.html#blacklists Heh. That's a familiar name in the abuse report. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkwREM0ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIwQ7ACfTKs6QCqVcVf3x3rW8Xw0fssT sIIAn3Q6/PKy/7H7HhYYPN/Phnadvv4g =jSQG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/06/2010 17:12:50, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:12:48 +0200 Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za articulated: On Thursday 10 June 2010 15:04:53 Matthew Seaman wrote: The only other mechanism might be to tag each list e-mail with a unique value for each recipient in such a way that it is preserved in the message that mpcustomer.com's help system sends out. That has severe problems of scale and load on the FreeBSD mail servers, but it might be possible. There is a similar technique (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) that some mailing lists use where they tag the envelope sender address with the recipient name in order to identify addresses that are bouncing back the list e-mail. Isn't that called VERP (variable envelope return path)? I agree - the load it would impose isn't worth it. I'm just shocked that midphase care so little about their reputation or the impression this is giving, on one of the more widely-archived mailing lists, of their competence and diligence. I have employed VERP with mailing lists that I controlled. I never noticed any adverse effects. I know of several technical lists like Dovecot that employ it. Obviously, they find it useful. VERP itself is reasonably lightweight, as it modifies the envelope sender address -- something that can be applied during processing by the MTA as part of sending the message. Unfortunately, I suspect that to get the message through to mpcustomer.com and then have it spammed back to the sender *with the tag intact*, VERP per se won't do the trick. It will probably be necessary to put the tag into the body of the message. As far as mail delivery goes, that's a very different story -- it goes from one message with tens of thousands of recipients, to tens of thousands of messages each with one recipient. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkwREzsACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyueACfRxA92D363Qf73nqRmoDLAYSu 7NcAnRl9BdZfax3+65N0y9Wxr3yy22hQ =2Edq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Midphase Hosting
On 10.06.2010 18:12, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:12:48 +0200 Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za articulated: On Thursday 10 June 2010 15:04:53 Matthew Seaman wrote: The only other mechanism might be to tag each list e-mail with a unique value for each recipient in such a way that it is preserved in the message that mpcustomer.com's help system sends out. That has severe problems of scale and load on the FreeBSD mail servers, but it might be possible. There is a similar technique (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) that some mailing lists use where they tag the envelope sender address with the recipient name in order to identify addresses that are bouncing back the list e-mail. Isn't that called VERP (variable envelope return path)? I agree - the load it would impose isn't worth it. I'm just shocked that midphase care so little about their reputation or the impression this is giving, on one of the more widely-archived mailing lists, of their competence and diligence. I have employed VERP with mailing lists that I controlled. I never noticed any adverse effects. I know of several technical lists like Dovecot that employ it. Obviously, they find it useful. Wouldn't adding an explicit route (to null) for the ip range employed by mpcustomer.com for the poor FreeBSD server do the trick? It would build up queue for a while, then the probe message wouldn't get there, then the problem would simply vanish. ;) //Svein -- +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
