Re: Ports on Macbook
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 01:25:21PM +0100, Bernt Hansson wrote: Polytropon said the following on 2009-03-03 03:24: On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:22:50 +0100, Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. I think an important point is that you loose support from Apple if you're not installing Mac OS X on Apple brand hardware. That may be. But i'm not talking about apple specificly. As for the license agreement, if you buy Mac OS X from the shelf (for example), you've not confirmed any contract-like agreement with Apple yet, but you've purchased some rights already, for example the right to burn the whole package (not a nice example but I'm sure you get the idea); the EULA mentions nothing about this (legally possible) behavior. Well, you have the right to make a backup. Is it that? The Mac OS X versions sold along with the Hackintosh are no illegally pirated copies, they're boxes from the shelf. It's up to the customer what to do with it. Yes. Like with any digital file/s If this were only true! ...But as I understand it, corporations like the RIAA forbid me from making a backup of a CD or DVD that I *own*. (E.g, a 6-CD set of Shostokovich). Admittedly, it's getting OT to ask if it wasn't corporate greed that's causing the Global meltdown, but we come back to the point if we ask two straightforward questions: 1. What is ethical? 2. How much is too much? gary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 2.23a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Gary Kline a écrit : If this were only true! ...But as I understand it, corporations like the RIAA forbid me from making a backup of a CD or DVD that I *own*. (E.g, a 6-CD set of Shostokovich). While this thread is off-list and is probably annoying many people here, I cannot refrain to point out that this kind of discussion is void unless it is studied in a given legal system. For example in France, a court may decide that a given clause in a EULA is void because it is unfairly restrictive, or because the customer was not properly informed, oe because it contradicts current usage, or whatever. Companies and particulars can write everything they want, this does not make a law. BTW I would like to point out that the question of validity of EULA is the same than the problem of validity of other software licences such as BSD or GPL: any of them will only be given a definitive answer in the front of a court. -- Cheers, Michaël ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. did you sign all Swedish laws then? How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
El día Tuesday, March 03, 2009 a las 09:25:03AM +0100, FBSD UG escribió: On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. did you sign all Swedish laws then? How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying? Could you please chat this off-topic issues off-list? Thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e matthias.ap...@oclc.org - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 20:04 +0100, Bernt Hansson wrote: Sean Cavanaugh skrev: -- From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM To: Sean Cavanaugh millenia2...@hotmail.com Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25: - From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook read the license. PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (LICENSE) CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded by it. http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. Cool country... :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 22:37 -0800, Charles Oppermann wrote: That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden. That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden. The Mac OS X license agreements are contained in a PDF file here: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden. Using on-line translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement. If you do not agree, you are requested to return the software. Presumably, the retail materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is presented and must be agreed to before use. I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements and are aware of Swedish law. While what you are doing may or may not be in violation of any licenses, your position that clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law seems dubious and ill-advised. Consider what you're suggesting: If EULA's and license agreements simply weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from occuring? I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business. I don't see how one could assume that software piracy (copying software illegally in this context) would be suddenly legal based simply on the eula being invalid. EULA's are for the USE of software- not the copying and selling of those copies of it. ...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their license agreements in order to prevent it. If you are under 18 you can't make any legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission. That might be true, but at least in the United States, parents or guardians are usually held responsible. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Da Rock said the following on 2009-03-03 12:34: http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. Cool country... :) It is. Now it's +3 degrees. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Polytropon said the following on 2009-03-03 03:24: On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:22:50 +0100, Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. I think an important point is that you loose support from Apple if you're not installing Mac OS X on Apple brand hardware. That may be. But i'm not talking about apple specificly. As for the license agreement, if you buy Mac OS X from the shelf (for example), you've not confirmed any contract-like agreement with Apple yet, but you've purchased some rights already, for example the right to burn the whole package (not a nice example but I'm sure you get the idea); the EULA mentions nothing about this (legally possible) behavior. Well, you have the right to make a backup. Is it that? The Mac OS X versions sold along with the Hackintosh are no illegally pirated copies, they're boxes from the shelf. It's up to the customer what to do with it. Yes. Like with any digital file/s ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
FBSD UG said the following on 2009-03-03 09:25: On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. did you sign all Swedish laws then? Kind of way, yes, since I voted in the election 2006 How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying? They have the copyright laws, as I stated before. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Da Rock said the following on 2009-03-03 13:13: On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 22:37 -0800, Charles Oppermann wrote: That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden. That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden. The Mac OS X license agreements are contained in a PDF file here: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden. Using on-line translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement. If you do not agree, you are requested to return the software. Presumably, the retail materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is presented and must be agreed to before use. I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements and are aware of Swedish law. While what you are doing may or may not be in violation of any licenses, your position that clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law seems dubious and ill-advised. Consider what you're suggesting: If EULA's and license agreements simply weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from occuring? I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business. I don't see how one could assume that software piracy (copying software illegally in this context) would be suddenly legal based simply on the eula being invalid. EULA's are for the USE of software- not the copying and selling of those copies of it. Exactly! EULAs is for the use of programs. BUT you can NOT make an agreement like MS or apples EULAs or any EULA that reads doing this you agree to that ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
The EULA states: This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California,.. Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this specific case the law of California applies. L. On Mar 3, 2009, at 13:29 , Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG said the following on 2009-03-03 09:25: On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. did you sign all Swedish laws then? Kind of way, yes, since I voted in the election 2006 How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying? They have the copyright laws, as I stated before. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Ports on Macbook
http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write APPLE on it in black marker. That PC is now labelled Apple and you can therefore use their software on it legally... (?) O_o Marci ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Marc Coyles wrote: http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write APPLE on it in black marker. That PC is now labelled Apple and you can therefore use their software on it legally... (?) O_o Marci playing the semantics game has gotten people in trouble before. on a side note, Sweden is a member of Interpol, and therefore subject to international laws. #this is specifically to our Swedish friend http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Members/default.asp; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol; In order to maintain as politically neutral a role as possible, Interpol's constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution forbids its involvement in crimes that do not overlap several member countries,^[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol#cite_note-1 or in any political, military, religious, or racial crimes.^[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol#cite_note-2 Its work focuses primarily on public safety, terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism, organized crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime, war crimes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes, illicit drug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_drug production, drug trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_trafficking, weapons smuggling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_smuggling, human trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking, money laundering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering, child pornography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography, white-collar crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_crime, computer crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_crime, intellectual property crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Property and corruption http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption. violating laws of more than one member state, in this case the united states and anywhere that a stolen copy transfers to in the member states constitutes a crime. that being digital or physical media. people have already been prosecuted in countries for doing exactly this and arguing that their own laws say its not forbidden. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Ports on Macbook
On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 12:52 +, Marc Coyles wrote: http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write APPLE on it in black marker. That PC is now labelled Apple and you can therefore use their software on it legally... (?) O_o Marci This will be my last comment on this matter as the topic is long overdrawn. Until crazy people in the US (not all- just the some who insist on stupid policies) step out of their topsy turvy virtual realities and into the real world there are going to be semantics like this. This should be a simple thing (and I believe the BSD license presents this- I'll check again to be sure): respect the authors ownership to the software as a writer, don't come whinging when it doesn't work like you think it should. MS and other whack job fools (in an effort to maximise their control and obtain as much money as they can without much effort) come up with these stupid, crazy licenses and agreements which in reality can't be enforced and expect people to live by them. GPL is not much different here- its only free in a purchasing sense. Licenses limit peoples use of the software; intellectual property should be honoured (and is through copyright), but limits are limits and should not be fettered on good people. (I will point out that I have done ethics studies at uni and I do understand the ramifications of my comments here) Something you can't hold in your hands shouldn't be sellable- time on the other hand should (and can) be. Look at the absolute shambles of the current situation with the plethora of licenses and the conflicting agreements between them all, the confusion for the average user and the minefield for the sysadmins. What happens when someone does click no and attempts a refund? The stores will not honour that refund and money is lost by the customer. In Australia, there is legal precedent that negates a corporation's use of size and force against a smaller client - currently this being used against banks and credit card companies, but it would apply here: the EULA's essentially state say yes or your money will have been wasted. Not to mention that you pay money for the crappy software full of bugs and a security nightmare, then pay again for someone to come out and fix the problems you find! I personally would rather pay for the fix and skip the initial costs... RIAA and DMCA and any other acronym against the small single users need to get a life! Instead of fighting the current go with the flow- it seems that of late the tide might be finally turning with the subscription services offered: a step in the RIGHT direction. Now if only MS and others would take the hint and get a clue as to how the real world works... Thats my rant... I'm out of breath :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael michael.copel...@gmail.com wrote: Marc Coyles wrote: http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write APPLE on it in black marker. That PC is now labelled Apple and you can therefore use their software on it legally... (?) O_o Marci playing the semantics game has gotten people in trouble before. on a side note, Sweden is a member of Interpol, and therefore subject to international laws. #this is specifically to our Swedish friend http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Members/default.asp; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol; In order to maintain as politically neutral a role as possible, Interpol's constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution forbids its involvement in crimes that do not overlap several member countries,^[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol#cite_note-1 or in any political, military, religious, or racial crimes.^[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol#cite_note-2 Its work focuses primarily on public safety, terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism, organized crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime, war crimes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes, illicit drug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_drug production, drug trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_trafficking, weapons smuggling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_smuggling, human trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking, money laundering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering, child pornography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography, white-collar crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_crime, computer crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_crime, intellectual property crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Property and corruption http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption. violating laws of more than one member state, in this case the united states and anywhere that a stolen copy transfers to in the member states constitutes a crime. that being digital or physical media. people have already been prosecuted in countries for doing exactly this and arguing that their own laws say its not forbidden. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org ...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics. Andrew ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Andrew Gould wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael michael.copel...@gmail.com wrote: *snip* ...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics. Andrew ethics is like latin, few care. but i agree with you in entirety. michael ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:00 AM, michael michael.copel...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew Gould wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael michael.copel...@gmail.com wrote: *snip* ...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics. Andrew ethics is like latin, few care. but i agree with you in entirety. michael At least you didn't make a dead language analogy. ;-) Andrew ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Andrew Gould wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:00 AM, michael michael.copel...@gmail.com mailto:michael.copel...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew Gould wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael michael.copel...@gmail.com mailto:michael.copel...@gmail.com wrote: *snip* ...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics. Andrew ethics is like latin, few care. but i agree with you in entirety. michael At least you didn't make a dead language analogy. ;-) Andrew I was tempted to, but when i considered it, i came to the conclusion that it would just lead this thread down another rabbit trail. wrong is wrong, no matter your country. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Tue March 3 2009 4:40:37 am Luigi Iannone wrote: The EULA states: This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California,.. Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this specific case the law of California applies. In a previous message, I posted the link to the license agreements Apple uses for Mac OS. There is a Swedish language version for Sweden which appears basically the same as the United States version, but says that the laws of Sweden would apply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Mar 3, 2009, at 19:07 , Charles Oppermann wrote: On Tue March 3 2009 4:40:37 am Luigi Iannone wrote: The EULA states: This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California,.. Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this specific case the law of California applies. In a previous message, I posted the link to the license agreements Apple uses for Mac OS. There is a Swedish language version for Sweden which appears basically the same as the United States version, but says that the laws of Sweden would apply. Strange, in the english version is clearly stated that translations are provided in the sake of clarity but legally only the english one count. Luigi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Am 03.03.2009 um 13:40 schrieb Luigi Iannone: This is not right. The US doesn't recognize the judging of any other country according to proskauerguide, nor do any other countries have to recognize US law or judging. You are saying that basically every country that has signed Internation Commercial Agreement basically subordinates their own laws which is not the case. Their own laws come first. The EULA states: This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California,.. Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this specific case the law of California applies. L. On Mar 3, 2009, at 13:29 , Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG said the following on 2009-03-03 09:25: On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. did you sign all Swedish laws then? Kind of way, yes, since I voted in the election 2006 How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying? They have the copyright laws, as I stated before. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On 28 feb 2009, at 17:26, Bernt Hansson wrote: Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25: - From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50: On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least... Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own hardware. unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be installed on apple brand hardware It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought a copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must sign a contract with apple. You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On 1 mrt 2009, at 07:37, Charles Oppermann wrote: That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden. That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden. The Mac OS X license agreements are contained in a PDF file here: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden. Using on- line translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement. If you do not agree, you are requested to return the software. Presumably, the retail materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is presented and must be agreed to before use. I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements and are aware of Swedish law. While what you are doing may or may not be in violation of any licenses, your position that clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law seems dubious and ill-advised. Consider what you're suggesting: If EULA's and license agreements simply weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from occuring? I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business. ...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their license agreements in order to prevent it. If you are under 18 you can't make any legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission. That might be true, but at least in the United States, parents or guardians are usually held responsible. ___ it's probably why this is happening in Sweden: http://www.ukfast.co.uk/internet-news/pirate-bay-court-case-starts.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Oh, that didn't go to the list, did it. I should actually read where I send stuff to, well, anyway. Suse was bought by Novell a while back as you probably know, but as far as I know the Suse team still is located in Nuernberg over here in Germany. They're programmers/geeks whichever you prefer to call it, not lawyers. So chances are they didn't know about this either when they started out, but considering that Yast was closed source for a while they probably found out soon. Am 02.03.2009 um 09:28 schrieb Bernt Hansson: Julian Wissmann skrev: An EULA actually in nearly all European Countries and probably most other countries in the World is not binding. That's my point. An EULA is just, that. An EULA. Even in the US it is not quite clear if an EULA is a valid license agreement. Can't comment on that. Also EULAs and many Licenses actually only apply to US Law, so basically they're not worth anything anywhere else. Yes. US law apply to us only. You couldn't enforce a GPL in Germany or some other european countries for example, because it is built atop another legal system with different ideas of how things work. Interesting! Suse comes to mind, but is suse linux still based in germany? Same thing applies to EULAs. I read a very interesting article on German iX magazine recently wich was covering this. Don't have access to it right now though cause I'm on a trip home, so I can't really say much more about it, but if you want specific details I can post them in a bout a week. Take your time. This kind of discussion's come and go. Am 28.02.2009 um 22:29 schrieb Bernt Hansson: Chris Rees skrev: 2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Lord Blackadder skrev: Bernt Hansson wrote: Sean Cavanaugh skrev: I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any kind of agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake. Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law. Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your interpretation of the law. Who's interpretation are you in comfort with? Your own? Sombody else, a lawyer? A pornstar? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Varning! E-post till och från Sverige, eller som passerar servrar i Sverige, avlyssnas av Försvarets Radioanstalt, FRA. WARNING! E-mail to and from Sweden, or via servers in Sweden, is monitored by the National Defence Radio Establishment. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/3/2 Julian Wissmann julianwissm...@gmail.com: Oh, that didn't go to the list, did it. I should actually read where I send stuff to, well, anyway. Suse was bought by Novell a while back as you probably know, but as far as I know the Suse team still is located in Nuernberg over here in Germany. They're programmers/geeks whichever you prefer to call it, not lawyers. So chances are they didn't know about this either when they started out, but considering that Yast was closed source for a while they probably found out soon. Am 02.03.2009 um 09:28 schrieb Bernt Hansson: Julian Wissmann skrev: An EULA actually in nearly all European Countries and probably most other countries in the World is not binding. That's my point. An EULA is just, that. An EULA. Even in the US it is not quite clear if an EULA is a valid license agreement. Can't comment on that. Also EULAs and many Licenses actually only apply to US Law, so basically they're not worth anything anywhere else. Yes. US law apply to us only. You couldn't enforce a GPL in Germany or some other european countries for example, because it is built atop another legal system with different ideas of how things work. Interesting! Suse comes to mind, but is suse linux still based in germany? Same thing applies to EULAs. I read a very interesting article on German iX magazine recently wich was covering this. Don't have access to it right now though cause I'm on a trip home, so I can't really say much more about it, but if you want specific details I can post them in a bout a week. Take your time. This kind of discussion's come and go. Am 28.02.2009 um 22:29 schrieb Bernt Hansson: Chris Rees skrev: 2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Lord Blackadder skrev: Bernt Hansson wrote: Sean Cavanaugh skrev: I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any kind of agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake. Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law. Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your interpretation of the law. Who's interpretation are you in comfort with? Your own? Sombody else, a lawyer? A pornstar? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Varning! E-post till och från Sverige, eller som passerar servrar i Sverige, avlyssnas av Försvarets Radioanstalt, FRA. WARNING! E-mail to and from Sweden, or via servers in Sweden, is monitored by the National Defence Radio Establishment. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org In all fairness, you are posting on a mailing list about software originating in the US, written in English, with the original post being a guy from India, and the disputed one being made from a guy in Spain. How is Swedish law relevant to this discussion, whether it says what you claim or not? Chris -- R $h ! $- ! $+ $@ $2 @ $1 .UUCP. (sendmail.cf) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:22:50 +0100, Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net wrote: FBSD UG skrev: You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one Apple computer. Mostly semantics, if I name my computer APPLE Then it's legal to install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not have to be a computer named APPLE it could be IBM, HP or any other brand or non brand. I think an important point is that you loose support from Apple if you're not installing Mac OS X on Apple brand hardware. As for the license agreement, if you buy Mac OS X from the shelf (for example), you've not confirmed any contract-like agreement with Apple yet, but you've purchased some rights already, for example the right to burn the whole package (not a nice example but I'm sure you get the idea); the EULA mentions nothing about this (legally possible) behavior. The Mac OS X versions sold along with the Hackintosh are no illegally pirated copies, they're boxes from the shelf. It's up to the customer what to do with it. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/3/1 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Charles Oppermann skrev: That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden. http://www.google.se/search?client=firefox-arls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficialchannel=shl=svq=%22Negativ+avtalsbindning%22meta=btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Ordering software then breaking the seal on a software packaging is not a negative contract agreement. The customer ordering the product requested the contract. How is this even relevant? -- R $h ! $- ! $+ $@ $2 @ $1 .UUCP. (sendmail.cf) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least...___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/2/27 Sergio de Almeida Lenzi le...@k1.com.br: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. It is a DVD of 4Gb.. Sergio Not only is that not what the OP is asking for, you're making us look like criminals. Save your warez talk for other places please. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50: On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least... Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own hardware. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
-- From: Chris Rees utis...@googlemail.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:31 AM To: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi le...@k1.com.br Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-po...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook 2009/2/27 Sergio de Almeida Lenzi le...@k1.com.br: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. for simple clarification. OSX is built on top of Darwin which is BASED on FreeBSD, but is not BSD. its BSD code built on top of the Mach kernel. Ports are just the source code for the programs yer looking for anyway so there's nothing stopping you from doing stuff like installing OpenOffice or Gimp under OSX. I've seen people replace the Quartz interface with Gnome before. overall Im with you in abstaining from anything with the name apple attached to it since its all overpriced underpowered crap. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
- From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50: On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least... Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own hardware. unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be installed on apple brand hardware ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25: - From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50: On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least... Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own hardware. unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be installed on apple brand hardware It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought a copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must sign a contract with apple. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
-- From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM To: Sean Cavanaugh millenia2...@hotmail.com Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25: - From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50: On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least... Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own hardware. unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be installed on apple brand hardware It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought a copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must sign a contract with apple. read the license. PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (LICENSE) CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Sean Cavanaugh skrev: -- From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM To: Sean Cavanaugh millenia2...@hotmail.com Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25: - From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook read the license. PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (LICENSE) CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded by it. http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. -- Varning! E-post till och från Sverige, eller som passerar servrar i Sverige, avlyssnas av Försvarets Radioanstalt, FRA. WARNING! E-mail to and from Sweden, or via servers in Sweden, is monitored by the National Defence Radio Establishment. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Care to back that up? Chris -- R $h ! $- ! $+ $@ $2 @ $1 .UUCP. (sendmail.cf) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded by it. That. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Lord Blackadder skrev: Bernt Hansson wrote: Sean Cavanaugh skrev: -- From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM To: Sean Cavanaugh millenia2...@hotmail.com Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25: - From: Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: FBSD UG free...@rgbaz.eu Cc: freebsd-questions questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook read the license. PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (LICENSE) CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded by it. http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it. I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any kind of agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake. Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your interpretation of the law. -- R $h ! $- ! $+ $@ $2 @ $1 .UUCP. (sendmail.cf) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Chris Rees skrev: NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded by it. That. OK. http://www.marknadsdomstolen.se/ I can't find anything on that site referring to that. I'm off now anyway, perhaps I'll reply in the morning if there's any real proof. Chris -- R $h ! $- ! $+ $@ $2 @ $1 .UUCP. (sendmail.cf) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Chris Rees skrev: 2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net: Lord Blackadder skrev: Bernt Hansson wrote: Sean Cavanaugh skrev: I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any kind of agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake. Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law. Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your interpretation of the law. Who's interpretation are you in comfort with? Your own? Sombody else, a lawyer? A pornstar? That passage says that any agreement with the knowledge of the relationship in good faith is valid. Where does it mention the difference between a click-through licence and an oral agreement? I'm getting bored of your deflection, and I'm sure everyone else is. Though a test case would be nice. Has anyone been lunatic enough to try taking it to court? Otherwise a clicked Yes counts as an agreement made in good faith. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:26:57 +0100 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net wrote: [snip] It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought a copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must sign a contract with apple. That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com According to my best recollection, I don't remember. Vincent Jimmy Blue Eyes Alo signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Ports on Macbook
Chris Rees googlemail.com!utis...@agora.rdrop.com wrote: That passage says that any agreement with the knowledge of the relationship in good faith is valid. Where does it mention the difference between a click-through licence and an oral agreement? With apologies to a certain former U.S. President, that may depend on the definitions of the terms. Does someone who simply clicks yes, without actually reading the license first, have knowledge of the relationship? Does someone who clicks yes, while having no intention to comply with the terms, act in good faith? For that matter, does Apple -- having never met the clicker in person or even on line -- have knowledge of the relationship? Though a test case would be nice. Has anyone been lunatic enough to try taking it to court? Given the nature of the situation, I'd think the only party likely to take it to court would be Apple. You seem to be saying that they would be crazy to do so. I suspect the OP would agree :) Otherwise a clicked Yes counts as an agreement made in good faith. Are you qualified to give legal advice concerning Swedish law? I am not, but I would guess that you could well be right *if* Sweden has adopted something similar to DMCA; otherwise I am not so sure. (I don't suppose the U.S. would have adopted DMCA unless it had been thought to produce substantially different results than the previous copyright law.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
I don#t want to interrupt. I just like to say that this kind of discussion already took place. On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:45:45 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Does someone who simply clicks yes, without actually reading the license first, have knowledge of the relationship? Can Your Cat Agree to an EULA? http://www.osnews.com/comments/21010 -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden. That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden. The Mac OS X license agreements are contained in a PDF file here: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden. Using on-line translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement. If you do not agree, you are requested to return the software. Presumably, the retail materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is presented and must be agreed to before use. I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements and are aware of Swedish law. While what you are doing may or may not be in violation of any licenses, your position that clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law seems dubious and ill-advised. Consider what you're suggesting: If EULA's and license agreements simply weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from occuring? I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business. ...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their license agreements in order to prevent it. If you are under 18 you can't make any legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission. That might be true, but at least in the United States, parents or guardians are usually held responsible. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Charles Oppermann wrote: That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the EULA. Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden. That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden. The Mac OS X license agreements are contained in a PDF file here: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden. Using on-line translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement. If you do not agree, you are requested to return the software. Presumably, the retail materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is presented and must be agreed to before use. I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements and are aware of Swedish law. While what you are doing may or may not be in violation of any licenses, your position that clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law seems dubious and ill-advised. Consider what you're suggesting: If EULA's and license agreements simply weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from occuring? I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business. ...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their license agreements in order to prevent it. If you are under 18 you can't make any legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission. This list is great for many reasons. This thread is not one of them. Trying to convince people to use Hackintosh is about as ridiculous as using on-line translation tool to deliver a rendition on Swedish law. Surely there is a better forum to debate this? Like off-list... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports on Macbook
Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote: Hi I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons. Hello... I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named hackintosh it is the google, it is free, and just works... You can even buy a standard notebook, and install. I will transform the notebook in an apple leopard 10. It is a DVD of 4Gb.. Sergio ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
