Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 03:30:30AM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Debian is the one I can almost tolerate. Ditto. I've been through dozens of Linux distributions, and Debian is still my favorite. I am *not* talking about Ubuntu, mind you -- that's not really Debian any longer. Much of what I like most about Debian was screwed gently with a chainsaw by the Ubuntu team. Of course, that's only almost tolerate, as you said. Even Debian annoys the crap out of me, now that I've gotten familiar enough with FreeBSD to realize what I was missing. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Olin Shivers: I object to doing things that computers can do. pgpuzUSq89cP6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:28:01 -0600, Modulok modu...@gmail.com wrote: That and Linux seems to only ever get the abridged version of manual pages. When you compare manual pages for an equivalent commands between FreeBSD and most Linux flavors, it really shows. I noticed this when I went from Debian to FreeBSD. Finally! Real documentation! There ware two things that I found to be solved better in FreeBSD than in various Linusi: 1. Amount of manual pages: FreeBSD does not only document commands, it documents configuration files, kerlen interfaces, library functions and maintenance procedures. The tradition of manual pages furthermore is carried by third party software (ports), e. g. man opera - you would not guess that it existed. In the opposite, try to find a manpage of some KDE program (as if anyone would read manpages for KDE things). 2. Quality of documentation: The manpages are excellently written. No look at our Wiki or this page intentionally left free there. furthermore, the OS's source is very tidy, uses good names for functions, variables and datatypes, and has lots of useful comments. As a developer, documentation is a MUST HAVE for me. Having all the documentation avaliable off line right after installation is very good. Sadly, Linux didn't (doesn't?) offer this. In functionality - driver availability, to call it by name - Linux may be much better than FreeBSD. It may even support crap devices as it is done by proprietary Windows drivers. But because I (1) do not own such hardware and (2) usually don't use modern computers, I do not depend on them. That's the great thing when you live in the stone age - you don't have to care for any modern stuff. :-) FreeBSD, in opposite to most Linusi, enables me to run my old hardware FASTER (!) with each release. Sadly, this gain of speed is eaten up by other things I use right away, such as X and its applications. I can't imagine that Linux would make a better shape here. I sometimes try some Live system CD from a Linux distribution to see it this is still the case. Is this the case? Yes, it is the case. Reboot, return to FreeBSD. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:14:12 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas keram...@ceid.upatras.gr wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:07:08 +0200, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: I was wondering if there were any other Slackers out there! Of course we are still `out there'. I started using a UNIX-like clone on my 386 SX with Slackware, by fetching the floppy disk images. I've abandoned Linux for serious work for years now, but I still have my Infomagic CD-ROMs :) hehe, me too. :-) In my case, it's a POWER!-CD LINUX (from Sybex) of Slackware with kernel 2.0.32, X 3.1.1 - purchased with a magazine for 29,95 DM many years ago. The system it ran on was a 486 DX2 / 66. And the system was quite usable, especially support for PS printer and LaTeX were most helpful. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
My preferences for Linux: I have used FreeBSD fairly regularly since 2.x and various flavors of Linux since around that time as well. As I was writing the first pass at this, I realized that many or most of the problems I have with Linuxes are endemic to Linux (whatever that is) and not to particular distributions. My main problems with most of the them are that they are just so inconsistent. Directory structures, documentation, even just where they install packages to by default - the standardization inside FreeBSD and that which is supplied by the ports system just makes for so much more of a sane and predictable experience. Secondarily, apart from *some* of the source ones and the debian-based ones, I always end up with broken dependencies or some weird circular inconsistencies. I'm sure I could fix them if I were a rpm guru, but I am not. FreeBSD just [generally] makes it so much easier and makes me not want to become an rpm guru. Servers: As you have probably guessed by this point, the only Linux that I feel suits my needs well enough to have used it long term (on my own, that is, not when I've been required to use it) is Debian and some of its progeny (including, in fact, Progeny itself! :). I usually end up with Ubuntu server. And it's OK. Desktops: Now, on desktops I flit around like a jack rabbit on crack. My desktop needs are completely different from my server needs. I'm usually XP (for games at home, work at work), so it's always the second and third OS on my boxes, so I try 'em all. PCLinux is actually been very good to me recently (Surprise! It's rpm based, too! How weird is that!). Kbuntu and some variants are decent enough. None of these last long enough to need more than a few patches, so I don't have the problem of dependency issues. Rich Mahlerwein Mobile: 715-891-7420 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
Daniel Underwood wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1 and I implement and support FreeBSD whenever I can. That said, many companies already have a *nix infrastructure and one must use what one is given. I find Red Hat is the most common linux distribution out there. CentOS is often used by these same companies for dev and test environments. Occasionally end-users will ask me to recommend a version of linux to play with and I point them to Ubuntu. -- Regards, Doug ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Jul 3, 2009, at 6:01 AM, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:28:01 -0600, Modulok modu...@gmail.com wrote: That and Linux seems to only ever get the abridged version of manual pages. When you compare manual pages for an equivalent commands between FreeBSD and most Linux flavors, it really shows. I noticed this when I went from Debian to FreeBSD. Finally! Real documentation! There ware two things that I found to be solved better in FreeBSD than in various Linusi: 1. Amount of manual pages: FreeBSD does not only document commands, it documents configuration files, kerlen interfaces, library functions and maintenance procedures. The tradition of manual pages furthermore is carried by third party software (ports), e. g. man opera - you would not guess that it existed. In the opposite, try to find a manpage of some KDE program (as if anyone would read manpages for KDE things). 2. Quality of documentation: The manpages are excellently written. No look at our Wiki or this page intentionally left free there. furthermore, the OS's source is very tidy, uses good names for functions, variables and datatypes, and has lots of useful comments. As a developer, documentation is a MUST HAVE for me. Having all the documentation avaliable off line right after installation is very good. Sadly, Linux didn't (doesn't?) offer this. I agree, the linux documentation is very scarce. Having good man pages is very convenient, specially when you are in a data center with just a console on a cart. Having to go online to check some badly organised wiki is not always convenient or possible. I also have my share of frustration with the logs. The messages in the log files are often inconsistent and unhelpful. In this following example the kernel is reporting a disk error but forgot to specify the most important information, the disk. Jul 3 00:07:53 locdata204 kernel: [5706229.55] res 41/40:00:52:4a:73/83:02:27:00:00/00 Emask 0x9 (media error) -fred- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
Are most of these shortcomings primarily due to the fact that FreeBSD has a single structured line of development? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:59:26 -0400, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: Are most of these shortcomings primarily due to the fact that FreeBSD has a single structured line of development? In opposite to Linux, FreeBSD has the concept of a centrally maintained operating system (the OS) and additional applications (everything else) which means packages, ports, and 3rd party software. You can see this even through the directory hierarchy: Everything inside the /usr/local subtree is not needed for the OS (and can be removed with leaving you with a completely intact OS). The distributors of Linux choose what belongs to their distribution which does not have such a separation. Basal software, as well as additional stuff, is incorporated via some kind of packages, even the kernel can be handled that way. Of course, as you said, most Linux distribution has its own concept and line of development, separated from those of the other distributions. That creates incompatibilities and differences between the distributions. FreeBSD, on the other hand, manages to keep even binary compatibility between major OS changes. Those who develop and control the OS are programmers who put a lot emphasize on quality - and that's very important to me. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Thursday 02 July 2009 07:21:25 Polytropon wrote: On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? Actually, I'm not a Linux user. But Linux was my first step into using UNIX on a x86 PC. More than 10 years ago, I started with Slackware Linux, and with the rise of FreeBSD 4.0, I did abandon it. I was wondering if there were any other Slackers out there! I've still got my first Linux distribution, and possibly my first FreeBSD release too: I bought the Walnut Creek 4-CD box of Slackware 3.6 in a little shop in the West End of London, and a couple of years later, the boxed set of FreeBSD 4.5 from either the Linux Emporium or CheapBytes (can't remember which). Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
Hello! On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I used to like Slackware but moved to Ubuntu two or three years before. I liked Slackware simplicity but its package system was too simple and then I moved to FreeBSD. Some years before I had found Ubuntu and stayed there for Linux boxes. Some people prefer Debian over Ubuntu but I dislike Debian approach on packages (namely patch the older version as long as you can instead of switch to a newer one). Bye, a ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Why? Good question. Because of the perspective many FreeBSD fans (people who like and use FreeBSD) have toward *NIX OS's. You said it well: Modern Linux distributions don't appeal very much to me, because they are messy: Missing manpages, partially ununderstandable file system hierarchy layout, untidy source code. These are things, I'm guessing, that the casual Linux user may not appreciate. Someone who has a great deal of experience with both FreeBSD and various Linux distributions, however, probably would appreciate these things. If I were to poll a sample of individuals who only have experience with, say, Windows and Linux, then the responses would likely represent opinions formed upon a wholly different set of criteria. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? Modern Linux distributions don't appeal very much to me, because they are messy: Missing manpages... That and Linux seems to only ever get the abridged version of manual pages. When you compare manual pages for an equivalent commands between FreeBSD and most Linux flavors, it really shows. I noticed this when I went from Debian to FreeBSD. Finally! Real documentation! -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:07:08 +0200, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: I was wondering if there were any other Slackers out there! Of course we are still `out there'. I started using a UNIX-like clone on my 386 SX with Slackware, by fetching the floppy disk images. I've abandoned Linux for serious work for years now, but I still have my Infomagic CD-ROMs :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Thu, Jul 02, 2009, Artifex Maximus wrote: Hello! On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I used to like Slackware but moved to Ubuntu two or three years before. I liked Slackware simplicity but its package system was too simple and then I moved to FreeBSD. Some years before I had found Ubuntu and stayed there for Linux boxes. Some people prefer Debian over Ubuntu but I dislike Debian approach on packages (namely patch the older version as long as you can instead of switch to a newer one). We currently use CentOS for servers and Macs for desktops. Over the years we have gone from Caldera-SuSE-CentOS, and I am most comfortable in an RPM environment having used it since 1995 or so. All our server software is built under the OpenPKG portable packaging system whether the system is FreeBSD, Linux, OS X, OpenSolaris, or even SCO OpenServer 5.0.6. Bill -- INTERNET: b...@celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792 Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. == H.L. Mencken ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400 Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? we use archlinux (though we've enjoyed debian and the ubuntus). arch is very clean and fast - rather bsd like in fact. it is very well supported by the community - even before you use it: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
Daniel Underwood wrote: I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Why? -- --Jon Radel j...@radel.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? None, I'm a BSD kindof guy :). Although Damn Small Linux and Tiny Core are nice ideas. I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Indeed why? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Daniel Underwooddjuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. of all the Linux distros I have tried, the least confusing is Gentoo Gentoo portage is kinda like FreeBSD ports they also have another project http://www.sabayonlinux.org/ that is Gentoo based, and I am hoping that one day PC-BSD will grow into what Sabayon now is, but FreeBSD based. in my Opinion, package management is the Big question that all os's have to deal with. things like debian's aptget do not handle upgrades very well. PC-BSD has a Great start on this with PBI's Sam Fourman Jr. Fourma Networks ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Daniel Underwooddjuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Although I am hesitant to contribute to what will most certainly turn into a flamewar, I have used Fedora, *buntu, and OpenSuse. Of those 3 distributions, *buntu tends to install the least nonsense -- OpenSuse the most. When I do need linux for something, I try to use some Ubuntu variant as I can have better control over what is installed. Of course, when I can control it, I install FreeBSD, as I have greater control over everything. -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
of all the Linux distros I have tried, the least confusing is Gentoo Gentoo portage is kinda like FreeBSD ports Yes, I'd like to give Gentoo a try. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed 01 Jul 2009 at 16:12:40 PDT Christopher Ryan Halbersma wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? None, I'm a BSD kindof guy Same here, but my other machine is a Mac (still BSD under the hood). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Debian is the one I can almost tolerate. There's a special place in hell for the people who write the source of code of horrible, terrifying, ugly things like iptables and the default packaging of GNU Emacs in Debian, but it's the one that I can tune a bit to match my preferences :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
Daniel Underwood writes: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? I like Debian and ubuntu which is a Debian distribution but that is not to say that other distributions are poorly done. Part of my preference is nothing more than that is what I started out with for a Linux distribution back around 2001 so I am accustomed to it. I like the Debian installation CD because as a computer user who is blind, I use a serial installation console and both the Debian5 CD and ubuntu Server can be easily started in serial mode. I also do not like any distribution that uses a GUI-based installation method unless there is a text-based method which is still available and easy to start. Debian was also one of the first few distributions to be more conservative about security settings. I work for a university and let's say that it is a good place to find out how weak one's settings are. Anybody who finds a hole will not necessarily tell you, but you will unfortunately find out in due time when the complaints start rolling in from all over the world. All the major distributions now are much better about security so this is not as much of a factor as it used to be. As with many things, your mileage will be determined by what you need to do and how well your particular flavor of Linux does it. All Linux versions use the same kernel but some may modify portions of it for special purposes. The distribution known as grml, for instance, has a set of modules in the kernel to support software speech synthesis. I would love to put it on a certain laptop I have but the laptop has other ideas. grml is a flavor of Debian and, on my laptop, the live CD is dead. Ubuntu's live CD also does software speech synthesis for blind computer users, along with an Orca desktop, but it also needs a pretty hefty system just to boot the live CD. That laptop of mine is a 1-GHZ processor and 256 megs of RAM and it still isn't enough. That live CD is also a dead one on that computer. One thing, though, the ubuntu live CD can seem to find the sound card as I hear the bongo drums in the ubuntu bootup, but then the drums fall silent and the screen goes psychedelic as RAM is exhausted and the system looses sanity. That particular psychedelic trip can only be ended by a forced power-down. The only distribution that does work there is something called Oralux whose development stopped around 4 years ago. It has software synthesis and it does talk all right, but the sound card can not record sound and it really is too old to be safe or very useful any more. Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK Systems Engineer OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood djuatde...@gmail.com wrote: QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you prefer? and why? Actually, I'm not a Linux user. But Linux was my first step into using UNIX on a x86 PC. More than 10 years ago, I started with Slackware Linux, and with the rise of FreeBSD 4.0, I did abandon it. Modern Linux distributions don't appeal very much to me, because they are messy: Missing manpages, partially ununderstandable file system hierarchy layout, untidy source code. Ah yes, and I need a very modern PC to run them. No thanks, not my party. That's why I can't tell about them, because I've not used them. The only thing that I observed when playing around with SuSE live CDs was that the Gnome version of their Linux had a much better internationalisation than the KDE version. Set language to German, and Gnome gives german text and messages most of the time, nearly everywhere. KDE cannot do that. It even gives english error messages. This is what scares Germans who want to try Linux. They cannot stand such complicated computer thingies. :-) I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux distributions from FreeBSD fans. Why? And an addition: I'm not a FreeBSD fan, I'm a FreeBSD user. I am using it because it serves my needs best, and I am nearly exclusively using it (along with Solaris). -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
