FBSD on MacBook Pro w/ Core 2 Duo? (was Re: Which OS for notebook)
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 10:20 -0500, Brandon Gooch jamesbrandongo...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Arvid Warnecke arvid.warne...@gmail.com wrote: I have been thinking about FreeBSD on the Macbook Pro dual booting (I need Mac OSX for photography software), but I am not sure if the hardware will be supported that well. Here's an excellent place to start your research: http://wiki.freebsd.org/AppleMacbook I'd posted a question about this to this list a couple of weeks ago, but without a descriptive title. Apologies for that, and hoping a more descriptive title plus a more detailed message on my part elicits more specific answers. I've got a 13 MacBook Pro, version 5,5 specifically, with an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU and 4GB RAM (and a 256GB SSD, though I'm reasonably sure that's not problematic). I'm dual booting Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.4 and Win 7 64-bit using rEFIt. I want to install FreeBSD as a 3rd OS alongside OS X and Win. Here are a couple of questions that arose during my research: - I'd like to run a 64-bit version of FreeBSD. My reading on the FreeBSD website appears to indicate that the correct 64-bit version for the Core 2 Duo would be ia-64, and IIRC the website references indicated problems running X.Org on that platform. Additionally, problems are mentioned with various (unnamed) other ports. I do want to use FreeBSD as a desktop. Is the info about problems with X.Org and other ports on ia-64 current and correct, ruling out its use as a desktop on the MacBook Pro for now? Am I correct in thinking from what I've read that the amd-64 version of FreeBSD would not work with the Core 2 Duo? Does this leave 32-bit FreeBSD as the only version I could reasonably install to use as a desktop on this machine? - If I follow the plain install instructions on the wiki page linked in the quoted message above (after first making space for FreeBSD using the Mac OS X disk utility), will rEFIt Just Work, i.e., recognize FreeBSD and include it as an option in its boot menu? Or is there something else I've got to do? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer on these questions. Comments on other 'gotcha' items I may have missed are also welcome. Jud -- I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FBSD on MacBook Pro w/ Core 2 Duo? (was Re: Which OS for notebook)
On 12/10/2010 12:39:59, Jud wrote: My reading on the FreeBSD website appears to indicate that the correct 64-bit version for the Core 2 Duo would be ia-64 Wrong. amd64 Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FBSD on MacBook Pro w/ Core 2 Duo? (was Re: Which OS for notebook)
ia64 is for Intel Itanium - NOT Core 2 Duo. The core 2 duo extends it's 64 bit instructions from the Intel EMT64 extensions. You can read up on this topic further at Wikipedia if you'd like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMT64#Intel_64 To summarize though - AMD64 is the platform you're looking for. Since AMD was first to come to market with an i386 compatible instruction set supporting 64bit addressing, you'll find a lot of systems reference 'amd64' as the platform. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Jud judm...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 10:20 -0500, Brandon Gooch jamesbrandongo...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Arvid Warnecke arvid.warne...@gmail.com wrote: I have been thinking about FreeBSD on the Macbook Pro dual booting (I need Mac OSX for photography software), but I am not sure if the hardware will be supported that well. Here's an excellent place to start your research: http://wiki.freebsd.org/AppleMacbook I'd posted a question about this to this list a couple of weeks ago, but without a descriptive title. Apologies for that, and hoping a more descriptive title plus a more detailed message on my part elicits more specific answers. I've got a 13 MacBook Pro, version 5,5 specifically, with an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU and 4GB RAM (and a 256GB SSD, though I'm reasonably sure that's not problematic). I'm dual booting Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.4 and Win 7 64-bit using rEFIt. I want to install FreeBSD as a 3rd OS alongside OS X and Win. Here are a couple of questions that arose during my research: - I'd like to run a 64-bit version of FreeBSD. My reading on the FreeBSD website appears to indicate that the correct 64-bit version for the Core 2 Duo would be ia-64, and IIRC the website references indicated problems running X.Org on that platform. Additionally, problems are mentioned with various (unnamed) other ports. I do want to use FreeBSD as a desktop. Is the info about problems with X.Org and other ports on ia-64 current and correct, ruling out its use as a desktop on the MacBook Pro for now? Am I correct in thinking from what I've read that the amd-64 version of FreeBSD would not work with the Core 2 Duo? Does this leave 32-bit FreeBSD as the only version I could reasonably install to use as a desktop on this machine? - If I follow the plain install instructions on the wiki page linked in the quoted message above (after first making space for FreeBSD using the Mac OS X disk utility), will rEFIt Just Work, i.e., recognize FreeBSD and include it as an option in its boot menu? Or is there something else I've got to do? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer on these questions. Comments on other 'gotcha' items I may have missed are also welcome. Jud -- I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Nathan Vidican nat...@vidican.com (519) 962-9987 (Canada) (313) 586-1982 (USA) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FBSD on MacBook Pro w/ Core 2 Duo? (was Re: Which OS for notebook)
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 07:39:59AM -0400, Jud wrote: Here's an excellent place to start your research: http://wiki.freebsd.org/AppleMacbook I've got a 13 MacBook Pro, version 5,5 specifically, with an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU and 4GB RAM (and a 256GB SSD, though I'm reasonably sure that's not problematic). I'm dual booting Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.4 and Win 7 64-bit using rEFIt. I want to install FreeBSD as a 3rd OS alongside OS X and Win. Here are a couple of questions that arose during my research: - I'd like to run a 64-bit version of FreeBSD. My reading on the FreeBSD website appears to indicate that the correct 64-bit version for the Core 2 Duo would be ia-64 No. You should use the amd64 version. This works without problems on my Core2 systems. The IA-64 version is only for the Itanium [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium] processors, which never became really popular and are mostly found in HP servers. - If I follow the plain install instructions on the wiki page linked in the quoted message above (after first making space for FreeBSD using the Mac OS X disk utility), will rEFIt Just Work, i.e., recognize FreeBSD and include it as an option in its boot menu? Or is there something else I've got to do? Have a look at [http://blogs.freebsdish.org/rpaulo/2008/08/31/freebsd-ia32-efi-boot-loader/]. Maybe that will work for you? As of 8.1-RELEASE, I don't see the source for this EFI boot in the ia32 boot loader (which amd64 also uses). Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpKDMLVcMBUS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Arvid Warnecke arvid.warne...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Right now I use Mac OSX on my MacBook Pro and FreeBSD 8.1-STABLE on my IBM/Lenovo T60 Notebook. The only issue I have with FreeBSD is the configuration for suspend/resume and battery lifetime (the big battery lasts for ca. 3,5 hours). Everything else works fine. Have you taken a look at this? http://wiki.freebsd.org/TuningPowerConsumption Additionally, the new timer infrastructure has and will allow for even more power saving (especially when the tickless functionality is implemented): http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base?view=revisionrevision=209371 http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base?view=revisionrevision=212541 Regarding the suspend/resume; it took me a while to get my Lenovo X300 to reliably (99.9% of the time) resume. I have to kldunload the USB stack to have the ports function on resume, and I still get the occasional VGA reinit lock-up, but mostly it works :) Things have been better since I moved to 9-CURRENT... I have been thinking about FreeBSD on the Macbook Pro dual booting (I need Mac OSX for photography software), but I am not sure if the hardware will be supported that well. Here's an excellent place to start your research: http://wiki.freebsd.org/AppleMacbook Good luck! -Brandon ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Hello, On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Right now I use Mac OSX on my MacBook Pro and FreeBSD 8.1-STABLE on my IBM/Lenovo T60 Notebook. The only issue I have with FreeBSD is the configuration for suspend/resume and battery lifetime (the big battery lasts for ca. 3,5 hours). Everything else works fine. I have been thinking about FreeBSD on the Macbook Pro dual booting (I need Mac OSX for photography software), but I am not sure if the hardware will be supported that well. Cheers, Arvid ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue 05 Oct 2010 at 06:25:05 PDT Mark Blackman wrote: Jon Radel wrote: I'm somewhat unclear on how that follows. Might it not be that many manufacturers, busily dealing with Microsoft, and easing into Linux now that it has significant mindshare, have simply decided that there's no economic benefit to releasing detailed hardware specs in a form that works for FreeBSD developers? I really fail to see why you think the fact that the manufacturer itself has released binary drivers for Windows, and possibly Linux, and/or released hardware specs under NDA (non-disclosure agreement) to certain business partners, has any bearing on whether sufficient information to write a driver is available to any FreeBSD programmer with permission to use it to write an open source driver. There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. I've often seen that opinion expressed, but never on the FreeBSD website or in any of its official materials. On the contrary, most of the official literature presents it as an OS for general-purpose computing, and not only for servers. If I'm wrong about and there is an official statement somewhere that the main intention is to provide an OS for servers, it would be good to know. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Charlie Kester wrote: On Tue 05 Oct 2010 at 06:25:05 PDT Mark Blackman wrote: There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. I've often seen that opinion expressed, but never on the FreeBSD website or in any of its official materials. On the contrary, most of the official literature presents it as an OS for general-purpose computing, and not only for servers. If I'm wrong about and there is an official statement somewhere that the main intention is to provide an OS for servers, it would be good to know. It's derived from a server/workstation OS and I assume the number of FreeBSD deployed servers wildly outnumbers the desktop/notebook installations and the tag line is The power to serve, so there's a strong server bias. However, lots of people of have put a lot of great work in to expand the desktop/notebook options for FreeBSD, but it's a big mountain to climb. - Mark ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Chad Perrin wrote: Another thing to consider is the ease of maintaining the software on the machine. My personal opinion is that Ubuntu (more generally Debian) is light years ahead of FreeBSD in this domain. How is it light years ahead of FreeBSD for the ease of maintaining the software on the machine? I'm curious about what you mean. I mean that the concept of maintaining a full set of binary packages which has been verified by the distribution maintainers and remain usable for an extended period of time, combined with an effective binary upgrader (apt-get, aptitude), is light years ahead, for ease of use and convenience, to a rolling release style bazar like FreeBSD ports, combined with tools like portupgrade, which sort of work only when you spend all your time running them daily, after having sacrificed a young virgin to the gods. I concede that the FreeBSD way allows to have very up to date ports, and to be in control of compilation options and so on. Personnally i don't have much use for these benefits. Of course i am aware that these assertions are quite heretic in this community, however i remark that the above considerations have found their way for the base system, since there exists definite releases, thoroughly verified by the developers, and suffering only security bug fixes, which moreover can be upgraded with binary tools. Even more, there are ports freezes, during the preparation of these releases, allowing to get a relatively coherent set of packages for the release. One may imagine this is the first step in a similar strategy for the ports as for the base system. But in this very thread, most competent ports folks explain us that the first thing to do is throw away the ports tree which has been used in the release and consequently the packages which have been compiled with it, and preferably indulge in the daily ritual of running csup, and invoking the manes of portupgrade or portmaster, of course after having carefully read UPDATING. Beleive it or not, i click on an icon of my Ubuntu laptop, and get the same result without any further interaction. -- Michel TALON ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 15:31:58 +0100, Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com wrote: It's derived from a server/workstation OS and I assume the number of FreeBSD deployed servers wildly outnumbers the desktop/notebook installations and the tag line is The power to serve, so there's a strong server bias. This is basically (because historically) correct. Still, FreeBSD is considered a multi-purpose OS which is not restricted (!) to server use. However, lots of people of have put a lot of great work in to expand the desktop/notebook options for FreeBSD, but it's a big mountain to climb. That's true. The more advanced (often means: incompatible and not standard-compliant) devices get, the less support can be offered by FreeBSD. One of its main advantages is that it can turn older laptops and desktops into usable systems that would otherwise be considered totally outdated. With each step in its OS development, FreeBSD usually gets faster and better (on the same hardware), in opposite to many other OSes. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:42:40 +, Michel Talon ta...@lpthe.jussieu.fr wrote: I mean that the concept of maintaining a full set of binary packages which has been verified by the distribution maintainers and remain usable for an extended period of time, combined with an effective binary upgrader (apt-get, aptitude), is light years ahead, for ease of use and convenience, to a rolling release style bazar like FreeBSD ports, combined with tools like portupgrade, which sort of work only when you spend all your time running them daily, after having sacrificed a young virgin to the gods. Erm... no. First of all, I have better uses for virgins, and then, portupgrade -p is a very useful mechanism for binary updating of installed applications. Sadly, not all applications CAN be installed by or upgraded from binary packages, as those don't exist due to the amount of available options that have to be set at compile time. A well-known example is OpenOffice. The times when you could run pkg_add -r de-openoffice to get a precompiled OpenOffice including german localisation and dictionaries are over. There are also restrictions that have their roots in laws, such as the prohibition of codec distribution (yes, I know, that's totally idiotic from a user's point of view), requiring programs like mplayer to be compiled with certain options if you want the illegal (bah!) codecs that make mplayer play everything. Oh, and another example might be X if you want to run it the traditional way without HAL and DBUS. I concede that the FreeBSD way allows to have very up to date ports, and to be in control of compilation options and so on. Personnally i don't have much use for these benefits. I do share this opinion in many regards and settings. Binary installation is a big advantage especially if you're low on resources. But sometimes, you can't avoid it. Even more, there are ports freezes, during the preparation of these releases, allowing to get a relatively coherent set of packages for the release. VERY important for offline installations. You don't want bleeding-edge broken programs there. One may imagine this is the first step in a similar strategy for the ports as for the base system. Tools like portupgrade allow using the precompiled packages from the Latest/ subtree as a means of upgrading without compiling. But in this very thread, most competent ports folks explain us that the first thing to do is throw away the ports tree which has been used in the release and consequently the packages which have been compiled with it, and preferably indulge in the daily ritual of running csup, and invoking the manes of portupgrade or portmaster, of course after having carefully read UPDATING. Oh, this HEAVILY depends on your setting, on your requirements. For a system where install once, then keep using is the prime directive, the approach you mentioned does not fit well. For a system that you want to test the latest software, where you INTENDEDLY want beeding-edge, it's the best way. You could make up the following associations: RELEASE system - pkg_add from RELEASE/ - ports tree from CD STABLE system - pkg_add from Latest/ - ports updated per portsnap CURRENT system - no pkg_add - ports updated per csup Please don't see this list as a mandatory ruleset. Mixed approaches may be the best solution in different settings. Beleive it or not, i click on an icon of my Ubuntu laptop, and get the same result without any further interaction. Which *may* cause your system to break. Don not understand this as an insult or claim. I have limited experience with Linux, but those that I have, especially as a supporter of newbies and average users show that Linux holds other kinds of confusion that I don't want to describe here in detail. FreeBSD is a system that always goes the SAFE ROUTE, because that is what its users expect - and often REQUIRE. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com wrote: There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. That tends to be my perspective. Linux tends to be more useful on laptops and desktops, where up-to-the-minute hardware support is needed. For servers, where stability is important, I tend to prefer BSD, all other things being equal. Besides the mindshare issue that's been mentioned, part of the problem here is the balkanized nature of open source licenses, too. Linux driver code is useless to FreeBSD developers because the GPL isn't compatible with the BSD license. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 10:50:42AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote: On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com wrote: There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. That tends to be my perspective. Linux tends to be more useful on laptops and desktops, where up-to-the-minute hardware support is needed. For servers, where stability is important, I tend to prefer BSD, all other things being equal. Weird. I guess maybe my excellent experience of using FreeBSD on my ThinkPad is wrong, and so is my experience of various Linux distributions having more maintenance issues than FreeBSD on similar hardware, and I should stop. Besides the mindshare issue that's been mentioned, part of the problem here is the balkanized nature of open source licenses, too. Linux driver code is useless to FreeBSD developers because the GPL isn't compatible with the BSD license. I don't think that's the case. Maybe such drivers cannot be integrated directly with the base system without licensing issues, but it can certainly be distributed and installed when appropriate. It is, in fact, for this reason of compatibility that FreeBSD has had ZFS support where Linux-based systems have not. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpEnjZDz6QYq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 11:11:23AM +0700, Phan Quoc Hien wrote: Hello everyone, Which laptop vendor is best support for FreeBSD ? I've had good luck with ThinkPads. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgppdjrOCJnkm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 04:42:40PM +, Michel Talon wrote: I mean that the concept of maintaining a full set of binary packages which has been verified by the distribution maintainers and remain usable for an extended period of time, combined with an effective binary upgrader (apt-get, aptitude), is light years ahead, for ease of use and convenience, to a rolling release style bazar like FreeBSD ports, combined with tools like portupgrade, which sort of work only when you spend all your time running them daily, after having sacrificed a young virgin to the gods. I concede that the FreeBSD way allows to have very up to date ports, and to be in control of compilation options and so on. Personnally i don't have much use for these benefits. I don't have the kinds of problems you imply. Portupgrade works great, even if I don't touch it for a week or so, at least for me. There are benefits to a rolling release process, too: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=4150 -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgp4WYGFexWRM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
Hi guys, normally I am just listening to what is communicated related to the FreeBSD OS. But here I feel that I can contribute something for Which OS for notebook. I really do share the opinion that a good Linux might be more suitable for notebooks for Newbees, on the other hand I am using Freebsd for day to day business also on a Thinkpad T42. I was able to successfully install and get FreeBSD running on numerous different brands of notebooks. Sure, you need time to compile and knowledge how to get things up and running. But don't underestimate what you gain doing things yourself. To install for example Ubuntu its running out of the box. FreeBSD expects you to have a sound knowledge of OS's. At this stage I would like to thank all people contributing to FreeBSD for the good documentation and the profound knowledge. Only a few things are missing like skype but almost all other applications are running fine. I also tested PC-BSD it's working nice, but for fine tuning and learning pure FreeBSD will be my favourite. By the way I made my own documentation what suits best. Feel free to ask and I will be happy to provide you with this document. Hope this helps Regards Michael On 10/06/10 19:14, Chad Perrin wrote: On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 10:50:42AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote: On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Mark Blackmanm...@exonetric.com wrote: There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. That tends to be my perspective. Linux tends to be more useful on laptops and desktops, where up-to-the-minute hardware support is needed. For servers, where stability is important, I tend to prefer BSD, all other things being equal. Weird. I guess maybe my excellent experience of using FreeBSD on my ThinkPad is wrong, and so is my experience of various Linux distributions having more maintenance issues than FreeBSD on similar hardware, and I should stop. Besides the mindshare issue that's been mentioned, part of the problem here is the balkanized nature of open source licenses, too. Linux driver code is useless to FreeBSD developers because the GPL isn't compatible with the BSD license. I don't think that's the case. Maybe such drivers cannot be integrated directly with the base system without licensing issues, but it can certainly be distributed and installed when appropriate. It is, in fact, for this reason of compatibility that FreeBSD has had ZFS support where Linux-based systems have not. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed 06 Oct 2010 at 07:31:58 PDT Mark Blackman wrote: Charlie Kester wrote: On Tue 05 Oct 2010 at 06:25:05 PDT Mark Blackman wrote: There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. I've often seen that opinion expressed, but never on the FreeBSD website or in any of its official materials. On the contrary, most of the official literature presents it as an OS for general-purpose computing, and not only for servers. If I'm wrong about and there is an official statement somewhere that the main intention is to provide an OS for servers, it would be good to know. It's derived from a server/workstation OS and I assume the number of FreeBSD deployed servers wildly outnumbers the desktop/notebook installations and the tag line is The power to serve, so there's a strong server bias. Yet if you go to http://www.freebsd.org the first thing you will read is that FreeBSD is an advanced operating system for modern server, desktop, and embedded computer platforms. Nothing about a bias toward servers or that it isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model. If FreeBSD is really aimed primarily at servers, I would expect to see something about this in the goals statement found in the FAQ and Handbook. But there's no such indication there. So I can see why some people might be frustrated by the lack of attention to some important issues for desktop/laptop/notebook hardware support. Nothing in the project literature tells them it's not a priority. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 10:50:42AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote: On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com wrote: There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. That tends to be my perspective. Linux tends to be more useful on laptops and desktops, where up-to-the-minute hardware support is needed. For servers, where stability is important, I tend to prefer BSD, all other things being equal. Weird. I guess maybe my excellent experience of using FreeBSD on my ThinkPad is wrong, and so is my experience of various Linux distributions having more maintenance issues than FreeBSD on similar hardware, and I should stop. No, it´s not wrong .. just keep buying ThinkPads .. most devels use them and hence .. they get more attention. Besides the mindshare issue that's been mentioned, part of the problem here is the balkanized nature of open source licenses, too. Linux driver code is useless to FreeBSD developers because the GPL isn't compatible with the BSD license. I don't think that's the case. Maybe such drivers cannot be integrated directly with the base system without licensing issues, but it can certainly be distributed and installed when appropriate. It is, in fact, for this reason of compatibility that FreeBSD has had ZFS support where Linux-based systems have not. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 01:44:17 +0200 Gonzalo Nemmi gne...@gmail.com articulated: On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Leandro F Silva fsilvalean...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Thank you ! Linux Mandriva 2010 on my notebook (Dell 1318) and Mandriva 2010.1 on my netbook (Compaq mini CQ10-120LA) ... I need ACPI to work as expected and no BSD can give me that, and the same goes for wireless cards support .. forget bout bluetotth ... besides, dumping a Linux .iso image in a USB stick to give it a go on my notebook/netbook to try it out before installing was incredibly more easy than doing so with BSD images as most major Linux distributions provide Win/Linux GUI tools to do so (The Mandriva tool will ask you to select an .iso image and a USB ... point, click, you are done ... Fedoras tool will even allow you to create a a separate partition on the same USB device to store your files should you choose not to install the OS). Linux (as much as I don´t like it) is years ahead of BSD´s in that regards ... And, oh yeah .. native UTF-8 tty´s and KVM make a huge difference. FreeBSD has been relegated to my desktop (which I have come to use only ocassionally, and servers). Best Regards Gonzalo Nemmi I have been tooling around with FreeBSD for a year or so now and I find it incredible that there is virtually no support for modern hardware; i.e., drivers for 'N' protocol devices. That one factor alone, and there are others, precludes me from seriously thinking about installing FreeBSD on a new laptop. The one PC that I have FreeBSD installed on is connected via Ethernet cable to my LAN. Once that PC is replaced by year's end with a more powerful, and wireless enabled unit, I am afraid my experiment with FreeBSD will come to a close. At present it certainly will not support the wireless card installed, and I am not even sure if it will support all of the other hardware either. I realize that at this point someone will inevitably chime in and play the blame the manufacturers whine. If that were factually correct, then no one else would be able to supply drivers and support for hardware that FreeBSD has left orphaned. The bottom line is that FreeBSD, if it is to continue to be considered a viable alternative operating system, must stay current in today's market. Many posts that I have viewed on other forums seem to feel that FreeBSD is sadly, whether do to bad choices such as those related to GPL licenses, or failure to properly gage today's market trends, is slipping into an abyss. -- Carmel ✌ carmel...@hotmail.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On 10/5/10 7:31 AM, Carmel wrote: I realize that at this point someone will inevitably chime in and play the blame the manufacturers whine. If that were factually correct, then no one else would be able to supply drivers and support for hardware that FreeBSD has left orphaned. I'm somewhat unclear on how that follows. Might it not be that many manufacturers, busily dealing with Microsoft, and easing into Linux now that it has significant mindshare, have simply decided that there's no economic benefit to releasing detailed hardware specs in a form that works for FreeBSD developers? I really fail to see why you think the fact that the manufacturer itself has released binary drivers for Windows, and possibly Linux, and/or released hardware specs under NDA (non-disclosure agreement) to certain business partners, has any bearing on whether sufficient information to write a driver is available to any FreeBSD programmer with permission to use it to write an open source driver. -- --Jon Radel j...@radel.com
Re: Which OS for notebook
Jon Radel wrote: I'm somewhat unclear on how that follows. Might it not be that many manufacturers, busily dealing with Microsoft, and easing into Linux now that it has significant mindshare, have simply decided that there's no economic benefit to releasing detailed hardware specs in a form that works for FreeBSD developers? I really fail to see why you think the fact that the manufacturer itself has released binary drivers for Windows, and possibly Linux, and/or released hardware specs under NDA (non-disclosure agreement) to certain business partners, has any bearing on whether sufficient information to write a driver is available to any FreeBSD programmer with permission to use it to write an open source driver. There's also the whole train of thought that says FreeBSD isn't really aimed at the desktop/laptop/notebook use model and any benefit in that arena is entirely coincidental. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tuesday 05 October 2010 13:31:08 Carmel wrote: I have been tooling around with FreeBSD for a year or so now and I find it incredible that there is virtually no support for modern hardware; i.e., drivers for 'N' protocol devices. That one factor alone, and there are others, precludes me from seriously thinking about installing FreeBSD on a new laptop. The one PC that I have FreeBSD installed on is connected via Ethernet cable to my LAN. Once that PC is replaced by year's end with a more powerful, and wireless enabled unit, I am afraid my experiment with FreeBSD will come to a close. At present it certainly will not support the wireless card installed, and I am not even sure if it will support all of the other hardware either. I realize that at this point someone will inevitably chime in and play the blame the manufacturers whine. If that were factually correct, then no one else would be able to supply drivers and support for hardware that FreeBSD has left orphaned. The bottom line is that FreeBSD, if it is to continue to be considered a viable alternative operating system, must stay current in today's market. Many posts that I have viewed on other forums seem to feel that FreeBSD is sadly, whether do to bad choices such as those related to GPL licenses, or failure to properly gage today's market trends, is slipping into an abyss. So. What's the connection between freebsd.u...@seibercom.net, carmel...@hotmail.com and ges...@yahoo.com, who all post through scorpio.seibercom.net, and who all have remarkably similar views on why FreeBSD is a pile of rubbish? And in terms of keeping my killfile reasonably effective, is there any easy way to filter out /all/ the sockpuppets at once? Or do I just need to keep adding them one at a time? Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Well, according to me FreeBSD works very well on desktops (except for CUDA), but I agree that its usage is extremely limited for laptops and netbooks. If I can't use ACPI or wireless on my laptop/netbook, I don't really see the point... Over the past 6 years I have tried many times to use FreeBSD on my laptops/netbooks but these problems always made me fall back to Linux... I still use FreeBSD as the only OS on my desktop computers though... On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Tuesday 05 October 2010 13:31:08 Carmel wrote: I have been tooling around with FreeBSD for a year or so now and I find it incredible that there is virtually no support for modern hardware; i.e., drivers for 'N' protocol devices. That one factor alone, and there are others, precludes me from seriously thinking about installing FreeBSD on a new laptop. The one PC that I have FreeBSD installed on is connected via Ethernet cable to my LAN. Once that PC is replaced by year's end with a more powerful, and wireless enabled unit, I am afraid my experiment with FreeBSD will come to a close. At present it certainly will not support the wireless card installed, and I am not even sure if it will support all of the other hardware either. I realize that at this point someone will inevitably chime in and play the blame the manufacturers whine. If that were factually correct, then no one else would be able to supply drivers and support for hardware that FreeBSD has left orphaned. The bottom line is that FreeBSD, if it is to continue to be considered a viable alternative operating system, must stay current in today's market. Many posts that I have viewed on other forums seem to feel that FreeBSD is sadly, whether do to bad choices such as those related to GPL licenses, or failure to properly gage today's market trends, is slipping into an abyss. So. What's the connection between freebsd.u...@seibercom.net, carmel...@hotmail.com and ges...@yahoo.com, who all post through scorpio.seibercom.net, and who all have remarkably similar views on why FreeBSD is a pile of rubbish? And in terms of keeping my killfile reasonably effective, is there any easy way to filter out /all/ the sockpuppets at once? Or do I just need to keep adding them one at a time? Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tuesday 05 October 2010 15:47:36 Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Tuesday 05 October 2010 13:31:08 Carmel wrote: I have been tooling around with FreeBSD for a year or so now and I find it incredible that there is virtually no support for modern hardware; i.e., drivers for 'N' protocol devices. [snip] I realize that at this point someone will inevitably chime in and play the blame the manufacturers whine. If that were factually correct, then no one else would be able to supply drivers and support for hardware that FreeBSD has left orphaned. So. What's the connection between freebsd.u...@seibercom.net, carmel...@hotmail.com and ges...@yahoo.com, who all post through scorpio.seibercom.net, and who all have remarkably similar views on why FreeBSD is a pile of rubbish? And in terms of keeping my killfile reasonably effective, is there any easy way to filter out /all/ the sockpuppets at once? Or do I just need to keep adding them one at a time? Well, according to me FreeBSD works very well on desktops (except for CUDA), but I agree that its usage is extremely limited for laptops and netbooks. If I can't use ACPI or wireless on my laptop/netbook, I don't really see the point... Over the past 6 years I have tried many times to use FreeBSD on my laptops/netbooks but these problems always made me fall back to Linux... I still use FreeBSD as the only OS on my desktop computers though... I'm not disputing that there are things not supported on/by FreeBSD that it would be nice to see working. I'm just getting bored with hearing very similar whinges, posted from multiple email addresses but apparently all from the same person: look at http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2009-December/209946.html and then http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2009-December/209966.html Both messages are sent from carmel_ny at hotmail.com. They have the identical ascii-art flag in the sigblock. One is signed Carmel (carmel at hotmail.com), the other Jerry (gesbbb at yahoo.com). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:31:48 +0200 Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za articulated: So. What's the connection between freebsd.u...@seibercom.net, carmel...@hotmail.com and ges...@yahoo.com, who all post through scorpio.seibercom.net, and who all have remarkably similar views on why FreeBSD is a pile of rubbish? We all work in the same salt mine. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. I'm using FreeBSD on my Lenovo ThinkPad T60. One of the nice things about choosing FreeBSD for my laptop OS of choice is that, unlike MS Windows 7, I do not need to get the latest and greatest hardware to get acceptable performance. Of course, there are downsides to my choice, such as the lack of proper hardware acceleration with an AMD/ATI graphics adapter, but since I have stopped playing World of Warcraft (any computer game bores me after a little while), there is little need for that kind of thing. When deciding what to use, the first thing you need to do is figure out your needs. What kind of hardware do you need to support? How much ACPI support is enough? What do you need your software to do? There is no OS that does everything better than any other OS. This applies to Ubuntu, MS Windows, and FreeBSD (and pretty much everything else, too). Because my requirements for hardware are reasonably simple, my requirements for software capabilities take precedent. As such, out of the various OSes with which I am comfortable to some degree, I pretty much get to choose whatever OS I want. Given my requirements for software capabilities, FreeBSD is the obvious choice. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpJlLlJ0RLyU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
Hello. I have same question here. My laptop is HP Pavilion dv4 series, can run fine on FreeBSD or other opensource OS? Thanks! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. I'm using FreeBSD on my Lenovo ThinkPad T60. One of the nice things about choosing FreeBSD for my laptop OS of choice is that, unlike MS Windows 7, I do not need to get the latest and greatest hardware to get acceptable performance. Of course, there are downsides to my choice, such as the lack of proper hardware acceleration with an AMD/ATI graphics adapter, but since I have stopped playing World of Warcraft (any computer game bores me after a little while), there is little need for that kind of thing. When deciding what to use, the first thing you need to do is figure out your needs. What kind of hardware do you need to support? How much ACPI support is enough? What do you need your software to do? There is no OS that does everything better than any other OS. This applies to Ubuntu, MS Windows, and FreeBSD (and pretty much everything else, too). Because my requirements for hardware are reasonably simple, my requirements for software capabilities take precedent. As such, out of the various OSes with which I am comfortable to some degree, I pretty much get to choose whatever OS I want. Given my requirements for software capabilities, FreeBSD is the obvious choice. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -- Best regards, Mr.Hien E-mail: phanquoch...@gmail.com Website: www.mrhien.info ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
just dont choose an acer 5745 or any laptop runnning Insyde BIOS ...from my personal experience (BIOS gets stuck at splash screen after BSD install) regards, Mubeesh On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Erich Dollansky erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: Hi, On Monday 04 October 2010 12:11:30 Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. there is no general answe You must select an individual model first and see then if the hardware is supported. I use normally FreeBSD 7 or 8 but I installed Fedora on a single machine as there is no driver for the LAN available in FreeBSD. If I remember right, wireless was not a problem there. So, choose a model and ask then again. Ok, I have FreeBSD 7 running on an older Fujitsu Lifebook. 8.0 gave me problems with USB. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Best Regards, Mubeesh Ali.V.M ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Hi, I use lenovo thinkpad T400s with freebsd 8.1 amd64 and openbsd 4.8 i386 (snapshot) as dual boot. I'm extremely satisfied with both hardware and the OS's. The laptop is light, doesn't heat up as much as the others I've tried and is very performant. Wireless works very well with both OS's. suspend/resume works most of the time with freebsd, and always with openbsd. built in camera works with openbsd. Most of the special keys (light, suspend, etc) seems to work fine with freebsd. Erik On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Leandro F Silva fsilvalean...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Thank you ! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- -- mvh. Erik Ulven ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. MacOS X 10.6.4. Its solid, supported, and Unix. In general the Unix things that need to be treated differently between MacOS and FreeBSD are exactly the sort of things you need to be prepared for for jumping between any Unix (or Unix clone). Apple hardware is exceptionally good. Generally run 5 to 8 years before upgrading. Got my original MacBook Pro in January 2006 and its still Going strong on the original battery. Its biggest limitation today is its 2GB max memory, but the Intel Core Duo 1.83 GHz CPU is plenty good. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
David Kelly wrote: On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. MacOS X 10.6.4. Its solid, supported, and Unix. In general the Unix things that need to be treated differently between MacOS and FreeBSD are exactly the sort of things you need to be prepared for for jumping between any Unix (or Unix clone). Apple hardware is exceptionally good. Generally run 5 to 8 years before upgrading. Got my original MacBook Pro in January 2006 and its still Going strong on the original battery. Its biggest limitation today is its 2GB max memory, but the Intel Core Duo 1.83 GHz CPU is plenty good. Here i am using a Sony laptop under Ubuntu (Lucid Lynx). Everything works perfectly OK, i could not be happier. I have a partition with FreeBSD 8.1 on this laptop, wireless works but ACPI doesn't at all. On desktops i use FreeBSD because it generally works and i like it better. As for Apple hardware, the experience in our lab is that is is by far the worst quality of almost all the machines we have. No other brand (Dell, etc.) has such massive hardware problems (screen failing, cdroms failing, mobo failing etc.). Another thing to consider is the ease of maintaining the software on the machine. My personal opinion is that Ubuntu (more generally Debian) is light years ahead of FreeBSD in this domain. I am quite sure you will find vocal people to claim otherwise. -- Michel TALON ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 10:12:31PM +, Michel Talon wrote: Another thing to consider is the ease of maintaining the software on the machine. My personal opinion is that Ubuntu (more generally Debian) is light years ahead of FreeBSD in this domain. How is it light years ahead of FreeBSD for the ease of maintaining the software on the machine? I'm curious about what you mean. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpxTcjb7PqVu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Mubeesh ali wrote: just dont choose an acer 5745 or any laptop runnning Insyde BIOS ...from my personal experience (BIOS gets stuck at splash screen after BSD install) It works fine if you don't blow away the BIOS partition. At least it has for me on an Aspire One netbook. Maybe a notebook also, can't recall. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
El 05/10/2010 06:51 p.m., Chad Perrin escribió: On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 10:12:31PM +, Michel Talon wrote: Another thing to consider is the ease of maintaining the software on the machine. My personal opinion is that Ubuntu (more generally Debian) is light years ahead of FreeBSD in this domain. How is it light years ahead of FreeBSD for the ease of maintaining the software on the machine? I'm curious about what you mean. I share Michel Talon´s mind in regards to the ease of maintaining the software on the machine but I find myself inclined to rpm ... that´s why I use Mandriva on my notebooks/netbooks. RPM has come a really long way since it´s inception and has proven to be an incredible flexible tool to do the task it´s meant to do (I can write a single .spec file and create as many rpms out of a single tarball as I see it fits my needs, package granularity they call it... just take a look at the mandriva repos to see what I mean). In my personal experience I have found that creating, maintaining and handling rpm packages is a lot easier than creating ports or keeping the software up to date using packages. Best Regards Gonzalo Nemmi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
El 05/10/2010 02:29 p.m., Phan Quoc Hien escribió: Hello. I have same question here. My laptop is HP Pavilion dv4 series, can run fine on FreeBSD or other opensource OS? Thanks! Please, take a look at the following thread before going any further: HP Envy 14 laptop damaged by FreeBSD 8.1 install http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=17683 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Chad Perrinper...@apotheon.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. I'm using FreeBSD on my Lenovo ThinkPad T60. One of the nice things about choosing FreeBSD for my laptop OS of choice is that, unlike MS Windows 7, I do not need to get the latest and greatest hardware to get acceptable performance. Of course, there are downsides to my choice, such as the lack of proper hardware acceleration with an AMD/ATI graphics adapter, but since I have stopped playing World of Warcraft (any computer game bores me after a little while), there is little need for that kind of thing. When deciding what to use, the first thing you need to do is figure out your needs. What kind of hardware do you need to support? How much ACPI support is enough? What do you need your software to do? There is no OS that does everything better than any other OS. This applies to Ubuntu, MS Windows, and FreeBSD (and pretty much everything else, too). Because my requirements for hardware are reasonably simple, my requirements for software capabilities take precedent. As such, out of the various OSes with which I am comfortable to some degree, I pretty much get to choose whatever OS I want. Given my requirements for software capabilities, FreeBSD is the obvious choice. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
El 05/10/2010 02:39 p.m., Erik Ulven escribió: Hi, ... Wireless works very well with both OS's. suspend/resume works most of the time with freebsd, and always with openbsd. built in camera works with openbsd. Most of the special keys (light, suspend, etc) seems to work fine with freebsd. Erik The OpenBSD guys did a really hardwork to get suspend/resume work out of the box on their latest releases (specially for 4.7 and 4.8, but it all started a few releases back)... they gave it some sort of priority status ... maybe they realized that nowadays most of the work gets donde on notebooks ... that effort seems to have paid off. Too bad OpenBSD is not my cup of tea ... Best regards Gonzalo Nemmi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Hello everyone, Which laptop vendor is best support for FreeBSD ? Thanks. On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Gonzalo Nemmi gne...@gmail.com wrote: El 05/10/2010 02:29 p.m., Phan Quoc Hien escribió: Hello. I have same question here. My laptop is HP Pavilion dv4 series, can run fine on FreeBSD or other opensource OS? Thanks! Please, take a look at the following thread before going any further: HP Envy 14 laptop damaged by FreeBSD 8.1 install http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=17683 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Chad Perrinper...@apotheon.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:11:30AM -0300, Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. I'm using FreeBSD on my Lenovo ThinkPad T60. One of the nice things about choosing FreeBSD for my laptop OS of choice is that, unlike MS Windows 7, I do not need to get the latest and greatest hardware to get acceptable performance. Of course, there are downsides to my choice, such as the lack of proper hardware acceleration with an AMD/ATI graphics adapter, but since I have stopped playing World of Warcraft (any computer game bores me after a little while), there is little need for that kind of thing. When deciding what to use, the first thing you need to do is figure out your needs. What kind of hardware do you need to support? How much ACPI support is enough? What do you need your software to do? There is no OS that does everything better than any other OS. This applies to Ubuntu, MS Windows, and FreeBSD (and pretty much everything else, too). Because my requirements for hardware are reasonably simple, my requirements for software capabilities take precedent. As such, out of the various OSes with which I am comfortable to some degree, I pretty much get to choose whatever OS I want. Given my requirements for software capabilities, FreeBSD is the obvious choice. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Best regards, Mr.Hien E-mail: phanquoch...@gmail.com Website: www.mrhien.info ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 10:41:13PM -0300, Gonzalo Nemmi wrote: In my personal experience I have found that creating, maintaining and handling rpm packages is a lot easier than creating ports or keeping the software up to date using packages. I find working with the ports system easier, as an end user, than DEB- and RPM-based systems that I've used. I have never built DEB- or RPM-based packages, and the one time I tried creating a port I failed (though frankly I didn't try that hard -- it was just an experiment when I was bored one evening), so I guess I'll have to take your word for it when it comes to creating ports. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpVkyr6iqXcJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010, Leandro F Silva wrote: Hi guys, Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Thank you ! Personally I like to use FreeBSD, but a better answer is found on freebsd-mob...@freebsd.org. Read the thread 'free bsd on laptops'. For the second check out http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/index.html. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Leandro F Silva fsilvalean...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Thank you ! ___ I would prefer FreeBSD, if not for the lack of support (yet) for 802.11n wireless chipsets (don't really like USB wifi poking out of the laptop!). FreeBSD used to work fine on my old Dell Inspiron 9400 (no longer manufactured), except for the card reader, which I never needed. I am waiting for support for wireless-n chipsets (and CUDA, if I'm lucky!) for my Alienware m11x (ndis did not work out) Regards Gautham ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Gautham Ganapathy gaut...@lisphacker.orgwrote: On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Leandro F Silva fsilvalean...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Thank you ! ___ FreeBSD with NDIS for wireless and xfce for desktop. Works great on a gateway ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
Hi, On Monday 04 October 2010 12:11:30 Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. there is no general answer. You must select an individual model first and see then if the hardware is supported. I use normally FreeBSD 7 or 8 but I installed Fedora on a single machine as there is no driver for the LAN available in FreeBSD. If I remember right, wireless was not a problem there. So, choose a model and ask then again. Ok, I have FreeBSD 7 running on an older Fujitsu Lifebook. 8.0 gave me problems with USB. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On 10/04/10 17:55, Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, On Monday 04 October 2010 12:11:30 Leandro F Silva wrote: Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. there is no general answer. You must select an individual model first and see then if the hardware is supported. I use normally FreeBSD 7 or 8 but I installed Fedora on a single machine as there is no driver for the LAN available in FreeBSD. If I remember right, wireless was not a problem there. So, choose a model and ask then again. Ok, I have FreeBSD 7 running on an older Fujitsu Lifebook. 8.0 gave me problems with USB. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I would rather find a machine which will run FreeBSD if possible. If possible go to a laptop shop with a bootable USB stick (memstick.img) and try booting different machines. Collect dmesg and pciconf output to study at your leisure. I have a HP nc6320 which runs 8.* fine except for the card reader and sleep/resume functions. chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Which OS for notebook
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Leandro F Silva fsilvalean...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Which OS are you using on your notebook, FreeBSD / Linux or MAC ? Also, can you tell us the hardware, Sony / HP etc.. Thank you ! Linux Mandriva 2010 on my notebook (Dell 1318) and Mandriva 2010.1 on my netbook (Compaq mini CQ10-120LA) ... I need ACPI to work as expected and no BSD can give me that, and the same goes for wireless cards support .. forget bout bluetotth ... besides, dumping a Linux .iso image in a USB stick to give it a go on my notebook/netbook to try it out before installing was incredibly more easy than doing so with BSD images as most major Linux distributions provide Win/Linux GUI tools to do so (The Mandriva tool will ask you to select an .iso image and a USB ... point, click, you are done ... Fedoras tool will even allow you to create a a separate partition on the same USB device to store your files should you choose not to install the OS). Linux (as much as I don´t like it) is years ahead of BSD´s in that regards ... And, oh yeah .. native UTF-8 tty´s and KVM make a huge difference. FreeBSD has been relegated to my desktop (which I have come to use only ocassionally, and servers). Best Regards Gonzalo Nemmi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
