Re: [Freedos-user] Can FreeDOS Be Installed By Means Of UNIX Commands?
On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 at 15:23, Jay F. Shachter via Freedos-user wrote: > Microsoft Windows is installed on three primary > partitions, because that is what Windows does, and every other > operating system on this computer must find a home for itself within > the logical partitions carved out of the fourth, extended partition. This is not true, and it is incorrect in 2 separate independent ways. [1] Yes, Windows does that by default. However, you don't need to leave it. You need the small reserved/hidden boot partition, and you need the big C: drive system partition. But the 3rd is a rescue/recovery partition. You don't need that at all. Use Ventoy to format a USB key, and download the Windows ISO from Microsoft.com. It's free of charge and if you get it direct from MS you can be fairly confident it's clean and free from malware. Windows 10 and 11 are unrestricted free downloads. For Win7, you need a registration key to download it. Copy the ISO onto your Ventoy key. Now you are good to go. You have a much better, richer, more capable rescue tool and you can delete the rescue partition. Nothing will change and Windows won't even notice. Now you have 2 primary partitions free. [2] The 4-primaries limit only applies to MBR hard disks. This is no help with FreeDOS, but GPT doesn't have that limit and you can have as many primary partitions as you want. There are no "extended" or "secondary" partitions any more. FUD FAQs: * Yes, you can boot a GPT disk in BIOS mode. * No, you do not need UEFI, but your BIOS does need to support it. Most have done for 15-20 years or more. * No, it does not only apply to disks over 2TB; you can partition a 256GB drive with GPT if you want, and I've done it. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Can FreeDOS Be Installed By Means Of UNIX Commands?
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 10:21 AM, Jay F. Shachter via Freedos-user > wrote: > [..] > If the answer to the first question is Yes, then I can continue this > narrative, otherwise the remainder of this posting is moot. I copied > FD13FULL.img to a USB stick, stuck it into the above-described > computer, and instructed it to boot from the USB device. The > installation procedure scares me. I have already partitioned my disk > and designated in my mind the logical slice onto which I want to > install FreeDOS, but the installation procedure on FD13FULL.img > implies that I must repartition my disk, and I am afraid to proceed, > lest I irretrievably trash my entire computer. First... Never install an OS or update an OS on a machine you are not willing to rebuild from scratch! I doesn’t matter how careful you are. I does not matter how new or great the OS and installer is. Things can go wrong with the best of them and leave your machine broken or not even bootable from the internal drives. Backup! When you boot the from the FreeDOS USB stick, that drive should be seen by the OS as drive C:. The installer then queries FDISK to see if a drive D: is present and readable by FreeDOS. If so, it will use that drive as a target for installation. If not, it will prompt to partition the drive. If the installer is prompting to partition using FDISK, it cannot find a hard drive (other than the USB stick) that is suitable to install FreeDOS. There is an advanced mode for the installer. However, that gets only limited testing. Therefore, I recommend you install FreeDOS in a virtual machine or manually. > [..] > then populating the > newly-created vfat filesystem by means of the cp and unzip commands > (the packages, I noticed -- and there is a huge number of them -- are > zip files, but there are also some files that are fundamental to > system that are already present without having to be unzipped, which I > envision simply copying over). That is not really going to work very well. The zip archives are packages. The contain various directory aliases that get remapped during package installation. While many could just be unzipped and used, others will be in directories different from how they are configured and will not function properly. You have multiple options on how you can proceed. 1) You could run the installer in advanced mode. Based on how your machine is setup, this WILL most likely hose your system anyway. 2) You could install FreeDOS to a virtual machine like VirtualBox or QEMU. 3) You could do a hybrid install into DOSBox. The installer defaults to hybrid on that virtual platform. There are DOCs and Youtube videos on how to do type of install. The benefit is having direct and easy access to the DOS filesystem from the host. There are some drawbacks. It is best suited for developers. 4) Install manually. After setting up a partition and it’s boot sector, I would proceed one of two ways. I would either install FreeDOS into a VM’s hard drive using a flat disk image, then copy the files to the hard disk partition. Or…. copy over the kernel and command. Then unzip the FDNPKG and FDIMPLES packages. If you place their files in the proper directories, adjust the FDNPKG.CFG file and configure a few environment variables, you could then use them to install all the other packages. Jerome ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Can FreeDOS Be Installed By Means Of UNIX Commands?
Jay F. Shachter composed on 2023-07-16 09:21 (UTC-0500): > I have a computer, with an MBR-partitioned disk, that is configured to > perform Legacy boot. Microsoft Windows is installed on three primary > partitions, because that is what Windows does It did that because you didn't take control. It's your computer. If you only give Windows one acceptable option, that's what it will use. So, partition in advance. Following is an example based on one of my older Dell's old HDD: |ID |ux|Type, description|Format |Related |VolumeLabel|OS2-LVM/LABEL|Size MiB | +--[/dev/sda MBR disk 1]++---[Toshiba DT01ACA1]+-+ |01 | |FreeSpace Wasted |-- -- --|-- -- --|- - - - - -| | 1.0| |01*| 1|Prim 0b FAT32|FAT32 |FRDOS5.1|P01ST10C |To10P01 WINBOOT | 400.0| |02*| 2|Prim bb AcrHidden|FAT32 |DFSe11.x|SS10P02DOS |To10P02DOSBOOT | 509.0| |03>| 3|Prim 83 LinuxNatv|EXT2|GRUB|03realboot |To10P03 realboot | 400.0| |04 | 5|Log 82 SunS/SWAP|SWAP|LinuxV1 |SWAPSPACE2 |To10P05 swapper | 4102.0| |05*| 6|Log 07 Inst-FSys|NTFS|Win NT |P06ST10D |To10P06 WinXP| 6401.0| |06 | 7|Log 07 DfsNoWarn|- |unknown | |To10P07 Win8 | 48000.0| |07*| 8|Log 83 LinuxNatv|EXT4|GRUB|08s151 |To10P08 suse 151 | 1.0| |08*| 9|Log 83 LinuxNatv|EXT4|GRUB|09s423 |To10P09 suse 423 | 1.0| Given the above, Windows will use the 48000 MiB space to install 7, 8 or 10, though you may find it carves that space into two, depending on which Windows version, and how you answer its questions. > and every other > operating system on this computer must find a home for itself within > the logical partitions carved out of the fourth, extended partition. Start over the right way, and "all" won't have to. Logicals are perfectly usable by Linux and Windows both. Once they've booted, nothing that counts knows which kind of partitions the filesystems live on. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Can FreeDOS Be Installed By Means Of UNIX Commands?
Hi,
On at 2023-07-16 09:21 -0500, Jay F. Shachter via Freedos-user wrote:
Esteemed Colleagues:
I have a computer, with an MBR-partitioned disk, that is configured to
perform Legacy boot. Microsoft Windows is installed on three primary
partitions, because that is what Windows does, and every other
operating system on this computer must find a home for itself within
the logical partitions carved out of the fourth, extended partition.
I want to install FreeDOS on a logical partition. So my first
question is: Does FreeDOS even support this? Many operating systems
do not, and only support installation on primary partitions, and on
GPT-partitioned disks.
The FreeDOS kernel expects its FDCONFIG.SYS ("altconfig", the preferred
alternative) or CONFIG.SYS ("oldconfig", the old fallback) on whatever
file system it detects as the C: drive. Technically, this is the *only*
file you need on what is detected as drive C:, as you can use lines like
"device=f:\..." and "shell=f:\command.com /p:f:\fdauto.bat" to make use
of a different drive for other things. (Some DOS programs may expect to
use drive C: regardless, so watch out.)
(Using the kernel command line extension I added [1] to the kernel in
2022, you can specify different CONFIG/ALTCONFIG/OLDCONFIG pathnames to
try a file on a different drive than drive C:, but the only ways to pass
a kernel command line are currently to boot into my debugger (lDebug
[2], with a small L) and use it to load the kernel; or to pack the
kernel executable into my iniload + fdkernpl stages then boot it as
Multiboot1 or Multiboot2 specification kernel from GRUB which allows to
pass along a command line as well. I can give more detailed instructions
on those if you want.)
The kernel will detect drive C: based on which partitions are primary
and logical. If you have only a single HDD, then probably the first
visible primary FAT FS partition gets to be drive C: (regardless the
actual placement on the hard disk; only the position in the partition
tables should matter).
The kernel is loaded in its entirety by the boot sector loader, or
whatever is fulfilling its role. That means the kernel itself doesn't
need to know what drive/partition it was loaded from. Technically, the
loader will pass along the boot sector with a BPB/EBPB of what partition
it loaded from, but the kernel does not (yet) make any use of it. (Not
true if you replace the FreeDOS kernel file by my debugger executable,
lDebug does make use of this info.) This includes that it does not use
it for the determination of what drive gets to be drive C:.
As for the boot sector loader, FreeDOS's originals should be able to
load from a logical partition if you correctly set up the hidden sectors
field (should give LBA sector number of the boot sector itself in the
total disk unit, not uninitialised and not counting within the extended
partition) and possibly the two CHS geometry fields (if the sector will
use CHS access to load the kernel). All you need to do then is to
instruct your prior loader to chainload the boot sector loader, either
from a dump file or from the actual boot sector of the logical partition.
(In my ldosboot repo [3] I provide alternative loaders which can with
some degree of success auto-detect the hidden sectors and CHS geometry.
However, not all of these features are available in combination with the
FreeDOS load protocol because of how much code it requires. But you
could instead use the lDOS boot loaders to load lDebug, then use lDebug
to load the FreeDOS kernel.)
To install the proper superblock values into a boot sector dump file, or
inversely install the proper boot loader into the actual sector while
leaving intact the superblock values (called the BPB or EBPB), you can
use a DOS tool like my instsect (a build is included in lDebug packages)
or the kernel's SYS utility (comes with kernel builds). SYS will
obviously default to install the loader corresponding to its kernel;
instsect has default loaders built-in but you can specify a file to read
the loader from instead. (Do not try lDebug's instsect's default
built-in loader with the unmodified FreeDOS kernel -- it will fail to
load it, even if you change the filenames to match. This is because
these loaders load using the lDOS load protocol rather than the FreeDOS
one.)
SYS can write the resulting sector to a drive or to a dump file,
likewise instsect. What I think is a feature unique to instsect is to
operate on a partition image that appears to DOS as a file, rather than
a drive, both for reading the superblock values as well as installing
the resulting sector. However, both programs are DOS programs, so you
need some sort of DOS running on the system or with access to the drive
(image) that you want to install to.
The core feature of SYS and instsect is not super difficult to replicate
using dd. You just need to copy over the (E)BPB of the superblock to
combine it with the
Re: [Freedos-user] Can FreeDOS Be Installed By Means Of UNIX Commands?
G'day, Jay: Microsoft Windows is installed on three primary partitions, because that is what Windows does, and every other operating system on this computer must find a home for itself within the logical partitions carved out of the fourth, extended partition. Ugh! The installation procedure scares me. Back up! "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur" Not profound, just pompous! -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
