[Gendergap] Cussler comparison

[Kathleen McCook]

My intention was to point out that a series of novels (Cussler's) that
don't meet the criteria applied to __October__ have full pages. The two
authors are in no way similar. In fact, they are as far apart as they could
be. However, the male author has complete coverage of every jot and tittle.




On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 I believe what caused the more in-depth examination was the creation of a
 brand new, otherwise unlinked category for the book, which drew the
 attention of a very different group of editors than the ones who pay
 attention to works of fiction.  You've got the category-interested editors
 looking at the article, instead of the fiction-interested editors.

 It's just a notability tag, it's already been removed, and I'm sure folks
 will be able to find some more reviews about October (novel).

 I don't think it has anything at all to do with the fact that the author
 is a woman.  As best I can tell, the only person comparing this novel to
 Cussler books is you.

 Risker/Anne


 On 22 July 2014 13:39, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote:

 The reason I asked to discuss here is to ascertain whether or not there
 seems to be a different set of notability standards by gender.

 I encourage students to contribute to Wikipedia.
 But when notability is an editor's decision with so many exceptions...how
 do you encourage?

 Really, I am careful and if a book by a brilliant woman like Zoe Wicomb
 causes notability queries..how, on earth, can this gender gap be addressed?

 Here is Ms. Wicomb's prize announcement at Yale.
 http://windhamcampbell.org/2013/winner/zo%C3%AB-wicomb





 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case 
 danc...@frontiernet.net wrote:



 On what basis in Clive Cussler notable?

 That he’s a regular denizen of the bestseller lists in many countries
 who’s had works adapted into major motion pictures (To be honest, I think
 we should say that “all published works by authors who have their
 paperbacks displayed prominently in the racks near the front of bookstores
 at airports are notable [image: Smile]“).


 Well, I don't know. I had never heard of Cussler before today (don't
 spend a lot of time in airport bookshops), but I did look at a couple of
 his novels' Wikipedia articles, and they didn't indicate significance any
 better than the October article. (One of them had a single, ephemeral
 reference; the other had 7 that seemed pretty thin.)

 I can see how Kathleen would be frustrated by what surely appears from
 her perspective to be a double standard.

 Pete
 [[User:Peteforsyth]]

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Re: [Gendergap] Cussler comparison

[Daniel and Elizabeth Case]

I don't think it is helpful to assign gender based systemic bias every time an 
edit is questioned on women related topic.

To put it in perspective, this was the article as it existed just before the 
{{notability}} tag was applied—three days after it was created, and two days 
after the {{unreviewed}} tag was removed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=October_%28novel%29oldid=617753940

There is a summary of the novel, a list of characters, a statement of who the 
author is and where she teaches, and two references—one to what seems to be a 
review in The New Statesman (OK as far as RS goes), the other to what seems to 
be a website which may or may not be considered a reliable source. There’s 
nothing about the award, which would probably have kept the {{notability}} tag 
at bay.

Plenty of people have similar frustration about notability tags being placed 
on their newly created articles especially on niche topics.

Of course, that happens a lot less when you get to be patrol-exempt.

But even still, on the occasions (and there still are some) when I create an 
article and for whatever reason can’t put refs in it right away, I’m looking 
over my virtual shoulder until I can (Once I had to wait an hour, and was 
absolutely paranoid that someone would tag it or—God forbid—nominate it for 
speedy deletion in the meantime). Yes, even me.

I don’t how routinely we advise newer editors to do this, but the fact is that 
when you create a new article, especially on a niche topic, you shouldn’t go 
live in mainspace with it until you’ve got sourced assertion of notability in 
it, and probably at least a few other sources as well. That’s what the newpage 
patrollers are looking for.

Daniel Case___
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