Re: [GNC-dev] Documentation Redo

[David Cousens]

This paragraph is fairly instructive though.

"When reading to do, people seek information that helps them to conquer their 
goals/tasks. Help systems that use reading
to do are more likely to help users reach their goals (Varland and Svensson, 
2006). However, people often do not learn
how to read to do, and many authors of manuals do not write for reading to do."

My experience in education is that for some people learning is a kinesthetic 
thing - they have to do to learn. 15 % of
the population are generally primarily kinesthetic learners, 25% primarily 
auditory and 30% primary visual learners. The
remainder of us utilize a mixture of styles.

David Cousens


On Sun, 2018-09-16 at 20:11 -0700, John Ralls wrote:
> So the IgNobel Prizes are out, and the “winner" of the literature prize is
> "Life Is Too Short to RTFM: How Users Relate to Documentation and "Excess 
> Features in Consumer Products”, https://acad
> emic.oup.com/iwc/article/28/1/27/2363584 
> .
> 
> Maybe instead of doing a rewrite we should just bin the lot and put the 
> effort into stripping GnuCash down to the bare
> essentials.
> 
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
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Re: [GNC-dev] Documentation Redo

[Adrien Monteleone]

Seeing the changes from Gnome2 to Gnome3, particularly with respect to 
Nautilus, I suspect whomever is in charge of the Gnome HIG is very familiar 
with that research...

Regards,
Adrien

> On Sep 16, 2018, at 10:11 PM, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> So the IgNobel Prizes are out, and the “winner" of the literature prize is
> "Life Is Too Short to RTFM: How Users Relate to Documentation and "Excess 
> Features in Consumer Products”, 
> https://academic.oup.com/iwc/article/28/1/27/2363584 
> .
> 
> Maybe instead of doing a rewrite we should just bin the lot and put the 
> effort into stripping GnuCash down to the bare essentials.
> 
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
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[GNC-dev] Documentation Redo

[John Ralls]

So the IgNobel Prizes are out, and the “winner" of the literature prize is
"Life Is Too Short to RTFM: How Users Relate to Documentation and "Excess 
Features in Consumer Products”, 
https://academic.oup.com/iwc/article/28/1/27/2363584 
.

Maybe instead of doing a rewrite we should just bin the lot and put the effort 
into stripping GnuCash down to the bare essentials.


;-)

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC-dev] Windows Build not working

[John Ralls]

All fixed. 
https://code.gnucash.org/builds/win32/maint/gnucash-3.2-2018-09-16-git-3.2-275-g162605f50+.setup.exe
 runs correctly.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Sep 16, 2018, at 11:37 AM, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> That part I can replicate on MacOS, so I've fixed it. My Windows build 
> process is still broken (a guile compile problem with loading dlls) so I'm 
> just going to push what I think will fix the binreloc problem on Windows and 
> test tomorrow's nightly.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2018, at 3:55 AM, Robert Fewell <14ubo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> OK, I have found the register date problem which is down to commit Make 
>> selection caching uniform across gnucash-sheet functions. 
>> more specificity if I comment out the addition of lines 402 and 403 the date 
>> cursor navigation by using the arrow keys works.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 23:56, John Ralls  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Robert Fewell <14ubo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Came across this today when trying to find a build with a working register
>>> date edit to see if I can find which commit broke it.
>>> For information in a register, click in the date field which removes the
>>> selection but you can not move the cursor with the arrow keys.
>>> 
>>> Looking at the nightlies...
>>> 3.2-191, register date works
>>> 3.2-258, register date does not work
>>> 3.2-263 register date still does not work and obviously starts
>>> 3.2-265 installs but will not start along with all later ones.
>>> 
>>> I may have time tomorrow to investigate, not sure at the moment.
>>> 
>>> Also is it possible to give more room for the file name on the website for
>>> the directory, see image.
>> 
>> Only Derek can change the display of the builds listing.
>> 
>> I think I know what's wrong with the installers after Monday, but I blew up 
>> my Windows build environment and it's taking a while to rebuild it. I should 
>> have a fix for that by tomorrow.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
> 
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[GNC-dev] There was an error parsing the file...

[chris graves]

I performed a git clone of the maint branch on July 31st, built and
have been using it successfully since.  Today I performed a git pull in
the unmodified clone.  Now using the freshly compiled gnucash, when opening a 
saved (via save as) copy
of a previously okay gnucash file I get the error:
"There was an error parsing the file".

Uncompressing and doing an sdiff -s on the original file and the non-working 
saved file:
mbp:gnucashSaves chris$ sdiff -s ok.gnucash bad.gnucash 
  >  
xmlns:vendor="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/vendor;
  >  
xmlns:addr="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/addr;
  >  
xmlns:billterm="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/billterm;
  >  
xmlns:bt-days="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/bt-days;
  >  
xmlns:bt-prox="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/bt-prox;
  >  
xmlns:cust="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/cust;
  >  
xmlns:employee="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/employee;
  >  
xmlns:entry="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/entry;
  >  
xmlns:invoice="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/invoice;
  >  
xmlns:job="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/job;
  >  
xmlns:order="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/order;
  >  
xmlns:owner="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/owner;
  >  
xmlns:taxtable="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/taxtable;
  >  
xmlns:tte="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/tte;
mbp:gnucashSaves chris$

It turns out that each of the above lines appears twice in the non-working 
file.  After
manually removing the duplicates, the file opens just fine.

Thoughts...
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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

Am 16.09.18 um 18:55 schrieb Geert Janssens:
> Op zaterdag 15 september 2018 19:31:26 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-
> devel:
>> And if we’re going there, the main project includes numerous README files in
>> gnucash/doc, all of which need similar treatment. README files for WIN32,
>> HCBI and OFX should IMHO be removed altogether in favor of other venues
>> (didn’t HBCI get replaced by FinTS in, like, 2002?).
> 
> The Windows README files are a special case, they serve as introductory text 
> in the Windows installer. So they can't be removed. But perhaps we can move 
> them to the gnucash-on-windows repository. I'd have to check where the 
> installer code expects them and whether we can change this.
> 
> As for HBCI I think it's still called like that in Germany. But Frank will 
> have to confirm this. What other venues do you suggest for HBCI and OFX ?

Yes, in 2002 FinTS 3.0 was released as successor of HBCI 2.2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinTS
A few more details in
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Transaction_Services

The today most common PIN/TAN methods are strictly seen no part of HBCI,
but of FinTS.

And recently on the german list a banker told a user HBCI is obsolete.
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-de/2018-September/010467.html

IIRC, when I started some renaming in our references, Christian had a
few objections. So let us ask him about his recent opinion.

> And as you're finding issues faster than we can fix them, please file a bug 
> report. It will get lost here on the list archives.

+1

> Geert

~Frank

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Re: [GNC-dev] Windows Build not working

[John Ralls]

That part I can replicate on MacOS, so I've fixed it. My Windows build process 
is still broken (a guile compile problem with loading dlls) so I'm just going 
to push what I think will fix the binreloc problem on Windows and test 
tomorrow's nightly.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Sep 16, 2018, at 3:55 AM, Robert Fewell <14ubo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OK, I have found the register date problem which is down to commit Make 
> selection caching uniform across gnucash-sheet functions. 
> more specificity if I comment out the addition of lines 402 and 403 the date 
> cursor navigation by using the arrow keys works.
> 
> Regards,
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 23:56, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Robert Fewell <14ubo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > Came across this today when trying to find a build with a working register
> > date edit to see if I can find which commit broke it.
> > For information in a register, click in the date field which removes the
> > selection but you can not move the cursor with the arrow keys.
> > 
> > Looking at the nightlies...
> > 3.2-191, register date works
> > 3.2-258, register date does not work
> > 3.2-263 register date still does not work and obviously starts
> > 3.2-265 installs but will not start along with all later ones.
> > 
> > I may have time tomorrow to investigate, not sure at the moment.
> > 
> > Also is it possible to give more room for the file name on the website for
> > the directory, see image.
> 
> Only Derek can change the display of the builds listing.
> 
> I think I know what's wrong with the installers after Monday, but I blew up 
> my Windows build environment and it's taking a while to rebuild it. I should 
> have a fix for that by tomorrow.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

[John Ralls]

> On Sep 16, 2018, at 9:55 AM, Geert Janssens  
> wrote:
> 
> Op zaterdag 15 september 2018 19:31:26 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-
> devel:
>> And if we’re going there, the main project includes numerous README files in
>> gnucash/doc, all of which need similar treatment. README files for WIN32,
>> HCBI and OFX should IMHO be removed altogether in favor of other venues
>> (didn’t HBCI get replaced by FinTS in, like, 2002?).
> 
> The Windows README files are a special case, they serve as introductory text 
> in the Windows installer. So they can't be removed. But perhaps we can move 
> them to the gnucash-on-windows repository. I'd have to check where the 
> installer code expects them and whether we can change this.

The installer code expects them where they are, of course, but that's easily 
changed if they really belong somewhere else or should have a different name.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] Gnome HIG

[Geert Janssens]

Op zondag 16 september 2018 18:56:47 CEST schreef John Ralls:
> > On Sep 16, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Geert Janssens 
> > wrote:> 
> > Op vrijdag 14 september 2018 21:37:58 CEST schreef Adrien Monteleone:
> >> Since John indicated there is not an effort to adhere to the current
> >> Gnome
> >> HIG, that statement should probably be removed. (as they don’t conform
> >> any
> >> longer)
> >> 
> >> But there are a few places where I think they can be simplified,
> >> particularly some items in the Actions menu should probably be moved to
> >> Tools.
> > 
> > Adrien,
> > 
> > There are certainly lots of improvements to make in user experience. And I
> > welcome improvements in that area in any case. We may not be gnome
> > oriented in the long term, but for now we're still using their toolkit
> > (gtk), so I'm not *against* making Gnome HIG inspired improvements
> > either.
> > 
> > In all the Gnome's HIG recommendations are fairly generic and while
> > reading
> > them I felt most of them are fairly universal. So even if we consider
> > switching gui toolkit in the future several of these general principles
> > will stand.
> > 
> > Which menu items would you move and why ?
> 
> To be clear, I'm also in favor of improving the UI, I just don't think we
> should do it because Gnome says so and I don't think we should be claiming
> in documentation that we pay much attention to anyone's HIG.
> 
+1

Geert


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Re: [GNC-dev] Gnome HIG

[John Ralls]

> On Sep 16, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Geert Janssens  
> wrote:
> 
> Op vrijdag 14 september 2018 21:37:58 CEST schreef Adrien Monteleone:
>> Since John indicated there is not an effort to adhere to the current Gnome
>> HIG, that statement should probably be removed. (as they don’t conform any
>> longer)
>> 
>> But there are a few places where I think they can be simplified,
>> particularly some items in the Actions menu should probably be moved to
>> Tools.
>> 
> Adrien,
> 
> There are certainly lots of improvements to make in user experience. And I 
> welcome improvements in that area in any case. We may not be gnome oriented 
> in 
> the long term, but for now we're still using their toolkit (gtk), so I'm not 
> *against* making Gnome HIG inspired improvements either.
> 
> In all the Gnome's HIG recommendations are fairly generic and while reading 
> them I felt most of them are fairly universal. So even if we consider 
> switching gui toolkit in the future several of these general principles will 
> stand.
> 
> Which menu items would you move and why ?

To be clear, I'm also in favor of improving the UI, I just don't think we 
should do it because Gnome says so and I don't think we should be claiming in 
documentation that we pay much attention to anyone's HIG.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

[Geert Janssens]

Op zaterdag 15 september 2018 19:31:26 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-
devel:
> And if we’re going there, the main project includes numerous README files in
> gnucash/doc, all of which need similar treatment. README files for WIN32,
> HCBI and OFX should IMHO be removed altogether in favor of other venues
> (didn’t HBCI get replaced by FinTS in, like, 2002?).

The Windows README files are a special case, they serve as introductory text 
in the Windows installer. So they can't be removed. But perhaps we can move 
them to the gnucash-on-windows repository. I'd have to check where the 
installer code expects them and whether we can change this.

As for HBCI I think it's still called like that in Germany. But Frank will 
have to confirm this. What other venues do you suggest for HBCI and OFX ?

And as you're finding issues faster than we can fix them, please file a bug 
report. It will get lost here on the list archives.

Geert


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Re: [GNC-dev] Gnome HIG

[Geert Janssens]

Op vrijdag 14 september 2018 21:37:58 CEST schreef Adrien Monteleone:
> Since John indicated there is not an effort to adhere to the current Gnome
> HIG, that statement should probably be removed. (as they don’t conform any
> longer)
> 
> But there are a few places where I think they can be simplified,
> particularly some items in the Actions menu should probably be moved to
> Tools.
> 
Adrien,

There are certainly lots of improvements to make in user experience. And I 
welcome improvements in that area in any case. We may not be gnome oriented in 
the long term, but for now we're still using their toolkit (gtk), so I'm not 
*against* making Gnome HIG inspired improvements either.

In all the Gnome's HIG recommendations are fairly generic and while reading 
them I felt most of them are fairly universal. So even if we consider 
switching gui toolkit in the future several of these general principles will 
stand.

Which menu items would you move and why ?

Geert


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Re: [GNC-dev] Windows Build not working

[Robert Fewell]

OK, I have found the register date problem which is down to commit Make
selection caching uniform across gnucash-sheet functions.

more specificity if I comment out the addition of lines 402 and 403 the
date cursor navigation by using the arrow keys works.

Regards,
Bob


On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 23:56, John Ralls  wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Robert Fewell <14ubo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Came across this today when trying to find a build with a working
> register
> > date edit to see if I can find which commit broke it.
> > For information in a register, click in the date field which removes the
> > selection but you can not move the cursor with the arrow keys.
> >
> > Looking at the nightlies...
> > 3.2-191, register date works
> > 3.2-258, register date does not work
> > 3.2-263 register date still does not work and obviously starts
> > 3.2-265 installs but will not start along with all later ones.
> >
> > I may have time tomorrow to investigate, not sure at the moment.
> >
> > Also is it possible to give more room for the file name on the website
> for
> > the directory, see image.
>
> Only Derek can change the display of the builds listing.
>
> I think I know what's wrong with the installers after Monday, but I blew
> up my Windows build environment and it's taking a while to rebuild it. I
> should have a fix for that by tomorrow.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
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