Re: [GNC-dev] book currency is what ... question mark
> On Feb 11, 2019, at 6:49 PM, Wm via gnucash-devel > wrote: > > at the risk of appearing to be an imperialist, what is "book currency" ? > > I think of "home currency" as whatever currency most people close to you (the > reader) use to buy and sell ordinary stuff like carbohydrate staples (rice, > bread, etc) and water > > in the UK that is GBP, in the USA it is USD, in most of Europe it is EUR, in > other places, depending on government, it might be something else. > > my point is, unless your government is failing, you should be able to use the > same currency for your home currency and your bookkeeping. > > presuming I haven't gone insane yet, does anyone know what a "book currency" > is? > > If someone really wanted to run a set of accounts in another currency gnc > isn't stopping them, the underlying transaction stream works perfectly > regardless. Book currency is the currency of the book's root account, which you set when you created the book. For nearly everyone it is indeed their home currency, but that's immaterial to GnuCash. Suppose, though, that while your book currency is GBP, you have accounts in EUR and RUB and you do a transaction between those two. The transaction will set the transaction currency to the account whose register you use to create it and will balance the transaction in that currency: If you start in the RUB account then it will convert the EUR amount to a RUB value and check that the credit and debit values are equal. What Alex is working on is to instead use the book currency for balancing: GnuCash would in this example convert both RUB and EUR amounts to GBP values and balance the transaction in GBP. It's an interesting idea but I suspect that it will be very difficult to get right, a suspicion at least somewhat borne out by the fact that Alex has been working at it for at least 3 years. Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
[GNC-dev] book currency is what ... question mark
at the risk of appearing to be an imperialist, what is "book currency" ? I think of "home currency" as whatever currency most people close to you (the reader) use to buy and sell ordinary stuff like carbohydrate staples (rice, bread, etc) and water in the UK that is GBP, in the USA it is USD, in most of Europe it is EUR, in other places, depending on government, it might be something else. my point is, unless your government is failing, you should be able to use the same currency for your home currency and your bookkeeping. presuming I haven't gone insane yet, does anyone know what a "book currency" is? If someone really wanted to run a set of accounts in another currency gnc isn't stopping them, the underlying transaction stream works perfectly regardless. Curious minds, etc. -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Deprecating ssh-dss keys on code
John Ralls writes: >> of dss keys appear to be owned by: asayed, chris, dvherman, hampton, >> jsled, linas, rolf, tomfray, wilddev, and myself. > > Derek, > > I think it makes more sense to remove the ids than to get new keys for > any of those except you and maybe Linas. If any of them should wander > back we can recreate the ids and generate new keys pretty quickly. Well, I figured out how to re-enable ssh-dss for now. I upgraded my own keys, but if any of the above (ex-?) devs want to have access going forward they will need to work with me to upgrade their keys. I will let the configuration modification lapse the next time that file gets reset by an update. > Even if the script hadn't been lost it's likely not compatible with gitorious. Well, the script did all the user creation, email forwarding, etc. Then, yes, the key would need to be added to the gitolite admin repo too. > Regards, > John Ralls -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] tb, gnc or me? my trial balance is wrong and I think it is gnc not me
On 11/02/2019 17:30, Adrien Monteleone wrote: Please tell me the intent is to *add* the book currency value, not replace the actual currency value. Our USA friends are still thinking about what a TB is for. I would hope that the actual currency transaction data would still be available. > The actual transaction values should be prime in a TB. If you have to reconcile against statements or receipts (or suffer an audit) with foreign amounts sans their ‘book currency’ equivalents, such original data would be critical. Agreed, you know how much the tx was for, your audit should agree. A trial balance should never be speculative (unless you voted for Trump in which case buying shares in jewish orientated russian biased golf clubs that own wall building companies would seem a good idea). Please check if your financial adviser is qualified before taking their advice and it is with regret that I mention Judaism, Trump's son in law is a nasty person regardless of religion. If so, this is how I originally conceived GC was operating till I learned otherwise. Shrug, where do we learn more about "book currency". ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] tb, gnc or me? my trial balance is wrong and I think it is gnc not me
Please tell me the intent is to *add* the book currency value, not replace the actual currency value. I would hope that the actual currency transaction data would still be available. If you have to reconcile against statements or receipts (or suffer an audit) with foreign amounts sans their ‘book currency’ equivalents, such original data would be critical. If so, this is how I originally conceived GC was operating till I learned otherwise. Regards, Adrien > On Feb 10, 2019, at 1:46 PM, Alex Aycinena wrote: > > > The 'book currency' feature is intended to deal with this by, if the 'book > currency' feature is selected, forcing every non-book-currency split to be > denominated in book-currency (i.e., like the trick, above, but without > having to use a third account register) and enforcing lot tracking for each > of these transactions (to get rid of all the off-line calculations), thus > providing a basis for tracking cost and eliminating the need for an > external price reference (unless you want to see an estimate of current > value). > ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] tb, gnc or me? my trial balance is wrong and I think it is gnc not me
On 11/02/2019 04:03, David Carlson wrote: Wm, before you run off at the mouth with all your innuendos, look at facts. I'm hoping you get a message from Liz If you don't there is something rotten in this list's administration. Did you try running a test on one of your backups from around June 2016 using Gnucash 2.6.12 or earlier? No. Why? Because I own a transaction stream. Watermelon. My transaction stream is the same regardless of how it is interpreted. Golf ball. I think that if you do you will find that the Trial Balance Report is correct if you scrupulously check the settings to use the Average Price valuation method and check your price database to be sure that the transaction generated prices are present. you may be a person of high IQ in your local community. you don't understand a trial balance. John Ralls alluded to that earlier today. JohnR isn't saying the same thing to me and you, Trump voter. In fact, I bet yay, how much are you prepared to bet, you piece of shit? My estimate is that you will bet fuck all because you are wrong. You are just a noisy person. > you could try re-running the Trial Balance Report in release 3.4 on a current data file using the Average Balance method of valuation. There is no point, the valuation approach is wrong. There was a period when GnuCash was not entering transaction generated prices into the price database as Alex noted, but that was corrected some time ago and recent prices from recent transactions are all entered in the price database. The price db has FUCK ALL to do with the TB > Granted, it will be difficult to find many of those old missing transaction generated prices that involve the base currency but maybe they might get added back by using the trading accounts feature. I have not tried that, but it might be worth a try. You don't appear to have a clue what the issue is. As Alex suggested, transactions that do not involve the base currency would need to be dealt with some other way. David Carlson Do *not* invoke other people without their permission in future, David Carlson I *know* I get Liz angry but you have broken all the rules regarding good manners by being an actual liar. That is not easily forgiven. -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Normalizing/obfuscating live data
On 04/02/2019 08:40, Christian Stimming wrote: In a real data file there are still more places with text that need to be modified, e.g. the scheduled transaction templates, bayes import matching, and such. Also, the dates are left unmodified which may or may not be a problem. Stripping out scheduled tx should be OK unless they are specific to the problem being reported. Because gnc is, by definition, a tx stream processor future tx are not normally noticed until encountered. (Personally I love the ability to generate tx in the future, it allows me to model my immediate monetary future. A very positive thing.) I think all of the import stuff should be stripped too. Dates are more interesting, Christian people (right or wrong) place value on dates (in my culture it will be 14 Feb soon) How about this as a proposal? If the dates in the file are in sequence it usually won't matter how much time is in between each date. Why do I say this? Because gnc is a *sequential* tx processor and as such the *sequence* of transactions can be important but the actual dates often aren't. If anyone is struggling with this conceptually, in a gnc file the date defines the order in which a tx is processed, that is what a transaction stream program does. The tx may be in the wrong order (this is part of the reason why gnc does the weird thing of loading everything into memory, it can't trust the file!) so it has to work out which tx is first, which one comes next and so on. I don't think I am teaching ChristianS anything, just explaining stuff. So, I think the dates can be modified so long as the *order* of dates and times is left extant. Proposal: make the first date random (after 1971 or some later date for technical reasons), treat the tx in date+time sequence adding one day each time a difference is noted. This will produce a time compressed file that obfuscates when someone actually did something. Thoughts? -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Normalizing live data, a suggestion for discussion
On 03/02/2019 16:03, John Ralls wrote: On Feb 2, 2019, at 8:10 PM, David Carlson wrote: OK, I want to try https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/ObfuscateScript but I am not a computer programmer. I have no clue how to use it. Can someone help me? Run it from a command line using perl, assuming here that you have Strawberry installed on C: c:\strawberry\perl\bin\perl.exe ObfuscateScript path/to/myfile.gnucash Note that it rewrites the file in place, so make a copy and run it on that. The file needs to be uncompressed. Apart from the write in place I quite like it as an idea to progress thought. Positive: it is in perl which (many|most) people may have a working version of if they are using F::Q Negative: it doesn't reconcile well, but this may actually be a positive because ... Positive: if the script breaks some splits this should be seen as a good thing by some, it makes the work of the super secret agents running gnc harder. Thinking aloud: another way of normalizing would be to split to some point beyond usefulness and let gnc put it back together again using Actions / Check & Repair === Remember flox, the idea is a file that someone else (who probably didn't vote for the idiot Trump) could look at to see *your* problem. Does the remote person want to see you paid USD10 for a burger meal and some beer then vomited on the pavement and had to pay a fine for that? Nope. The remote person wants to see what the fuck you have put in your file that is screwing up the transaction stream. -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Normalizing live data, a suggestion for discussion
On 03/02/2019 02:01, David Cousens wrote: As Geert pointed out whole of program testing is very difficult and rapidly reaches a situation where complexity is equal to or greater than the program complexity and this is really what gave rise to unit testing where you test individual components which do a specific function. That can't fix a problem where an incorrect presumption was made in the first place. One area in which an example file rather than a test file might be useful is in developing the documentation. The guide section on Accounts Transaction following through to Personal Finances in escence constructs a simple file while doing the tutorial. Here though it is the process of constructing the data in the file that is useful. A completed example file is not of great use. I'd advise against using any file as the right file for documentation purposes. There are just too many edge cases. Something I think would be amusing rather than instructive would be to put all of the example tx in the docs into one file. I doubt it would be useful to anyone other than an historian of finance programs but it would be fun to see what we ended up with. If someone is thinking of presenting a paper at a conference try it, mention me if you are feeling generous :) It is also likely that most problems which are likely to require this depth of investigation are unlikely to show up in a test file unless you can execute a series of entries in a scripted manner i.e. interact with the gui from a script and this is not possible with GnuCash at the moment AFAIK. The problem is usually somewhere in the process of getting to the results in the file and what is in the file is merely a symptom of the problem. gnc is a transaction stream application. each time you open a file it starts from 0 and does addition and subtraction. no more no less. on top of that we have pretty stuff, convenient ways of adding new transactions to the stream, convenient ways of reporting the results of the stream. nevertheless, it is still just a program interpreting a stream of transactions. gnc is a convenience. I don't see why I should have to give live data to people I don't know in person ... and I don't even have super secret stuff like tax havens or a Donald Trump blow job account or a religious belief. I just feel uncomfortable showing ordinary tx to people I don't know, it is that simple to me. Q: Why does someone need to see *my* (or your) tx to fix a problem? A: they don't So, we are stuck. -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] tb, gnc or me? my trial balance is wrong and I think it is gnc not me
On 09/02/2019 13:03, D via gnucash-devel wrote: That sounds to me like it's using a different exchange rate from one day to another, and I'd agree with your assessment in that case. I would have thought that the exchange rate in the transaction would be used. You are correct. I have an amount of something (shares, foreign currency, whatever) worth (nominally) what I paid for it. Mind you, I can't wrap my head around the subtleties that seem to apply on this report. There should not be any subtleties in a TB, it is an internal document not a public facing one, the tax people don't ask for your trial balance in any place I know unless they think you are bad person in the first place. If I don't buy or sell some of whatever it is, I just have what I have for TB purposes. If I want to place a value on whatever I put a price in the price database on a date and use a Balance Sheet report. The TB is about *actual* tx not values at some putative point in time later. -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] tb, gnc or me? my trial balance is wrong and I think it is gnc not me
On 10/02/2019 22:52, David Carlson wrote: Wm, Where does unrealized income fall into tb if there is no price in the database on the closing date for one or more security or currency accounts because it was not sold? Essentially it doesn't occur, it is just a number of something if you aren't using Trading Accounts. The TB isn't about the *value* of stuff, it is about what you paid for it at a time and how much of it you have at a point in time or over a point in time. The Balance Sheet is about the value of stuff at a point in time. The Income Statement is about how you got to a value over a specific period of time. The TB is worthless or pointless if it "double dips" into either of those major reports remits. === Consider this tx 2010-01-01 Assets:Cash -100 Assets:XYZa +100 Cash is real money in your home currency XYZa is an unlisted investment What your TB should show wrt XYZa is that you have 100 home currency units (usually called money) worth of it. That never changes unless something else happens. Consider this tx 2010-01-01 Assets:Cash -100 Assets:XYZa +4 shares @ 25 each Unless someone else is buying and selling those XYZa shares they are only worth what you paid for them at best, your TB should reflect that you have 4 XYZa shares not guess what their value is. Am I explaining this well or not? The Balance Sheet allows you to put a value on stuff The Income Statement says how you got there The Trial Balance should say what you actually have and what actually happened rather than what you think you have and would like to have happened. Why? Because it is good accounting. -- Wm ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
