Re: GnuCash mobile

[Andy Pastuszak]

Are there any UI changes with switching to GTK3?

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 6:46 PM, John Ralls  wrote:

>
> > On May 30, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> >
> > Andy,
> >
> > I believe that Geert is looking into GTK3 (not Gnome3) support, but I
> > don't know the current status or if its expected to be completed in time
> > for 2.8.
> >
>
> We got pushed to Gtk3 by RedHat withdrawing WebKit1 from Fedora 26;
> WebKit2 is available only on Gtk3. Geert's done the work, it's in the Gtk3
> branch on his Github repo. The blocker at the moment is getting a Gtk3
> Windows build, which is what I'm working on right now--though WebKit2 isn't
> supported on Windows so we have to use WebKit1 with Gtk3 there. We won't
> start the 2.7 beta cycle until Gtk3 is merged, and we won't merge Gtk3
> until the Windows build works.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
>
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Re: GnuCash mobile

[John Ralls]

> On May 30, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> 
> Andy,
> 
> I believe that Geert is looking into GTK3 (not Gnome3) support, but I
> don't know the current status or if its expected to be completed in time
> for 2.8.
> 

We got pushed to Gtk3 by RedHat withdrawing WebKit1 from Fedora 26; WebKit2 is 
available only on Gtk3. Geert's done the work, it's in the Gtk3 branch on his 
Github repo. The blocker at the moment is getting a Gtk3 Windows build, which 
is what I'm working on right now--though WebKit2 isn't supported on Windows so 
we have to use WebKit1 with Gtk3 there. We won't start the 2.7 beta cycle until 
Gtk3 is merged, and we won't merge Gtk3 until the Windows build works.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: About time in transaction

[Adrien Monteleone]

> On May 30, 2017, at 2:39 PM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 3:23 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> Kurt,
>> 
>> While officially there is no way to record times in transactions, you can
>> use the NUM field to some degree for this purpose.
>> 
>> Either you can enter simply increasing digits to order your transactions
>> outside of the order in which they were entered, (1, 2, 3, etc.) or you
>> can use this field as a time stamp.  I’ve switched to this time stamp
>> method when entering many transactions and not sorting my paperwork
>> beforehand. I use 24 hour time without any spaces or delimiters for this.
>> So for your example of an expense to McDonald’s for Food:Breakfast, I’d
>> enter 0800 in the NUM field. If I later stopped at Starbucks because I
>> didn’t care for McDonald’s coffee, I might enter say 0830 in the NUM field
>> for that transaction. This will give me the time and order the
>> transactions by that time as a bonus.
>> 
>> I’m not sure if the “:” delimiter for time is allowed in the NUM field, I
>> don’t need it and haven’t tried it.
> 
> It is "allowed" in the sense that the NUM column is just a string entry
> field, so any character is allowed.  However, the sorting of the num
> column is performed numerically, so the string is converted to an integer
> and then sorted.  That means that any non-numeric character is "stop" to
> integer conversion.  I.e., 08:00 and 08:30 will both convert to the
> integer '8' and sort equally.  Whereas 0800 and 0830 will convert to the
> integers 800 and 830 and will sort accordingly.
> 
>> I suppose if you didn’t want to use 24 hour time, you could preface the
>> time with “A” or “P” (or their lowercase equivalents) and GC will sort
>> them appropriately. Be sure to put the A or P in front and not at the end
>> or you’ll end up with 800A and 800P right next to each other with say 830A
>> following. Sorting is by character in order left to right.
> 
> No, it wont.  800A and 800P will sort the same.  And 800A will sort AFTER
> 100P.  See above.

Apologies. I assumed it as an alpha-numeric sort. I didn’t realize it was 
integer. I guess then 24 hour format (without delimiters) is the way to go.
> 
>> Hope that helps,
>> 
>> Adrien
> 
> -derek
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:00 PM, Kurt Tsang 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'd like to know is it possible input the time in transactions? It's
>>> really important for me to track the history..
>>> For example "2017-04-01 08:00" paid to McDonal for Food:Breadfast.
>>> 
>>> And  is it possible have a web version?
>>> Thanks a lot
>>> 
>>> iPadから送信
>>> クルト・ソン
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> 
> 
> -- 
>   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>   Computer and Internet Security Consultant
> 

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Re: About time in transaction

[Adrien Monteleone]

Kurt,

While officially there is no way to record times in transactions, you can use 
the NUM field to some degree for this purpose.

Either you can enter simply increasing digits to order your transactions 
outside of the order in which they were entered, (1, 2, 3, etc.) or you can use 
this field as a time stamp.  I’ve switched to this time stamp method when 
entering many transactions and not sorting my paperwork beforehand. I use 24 
hour time without any spaces or delimiters for this. So for your example of an 
expense to McDonald’s for Food:Breakfast, I’d enter 0800 in the NUM field. If I 
later stopped at Starbucks because I didn’t care for McDonald’s coffee, I might 
enter say 0830 in the NUM field for that transaction. This will give me the 
time and order the transactions by that time as a bonus.

I’m not sure if the “:” delimiter for time is allowed in the NUM field, I don’t 
need it and haven’t tried it.

I suppose if you didn’t want to use 24 hour time, you could preface the time 
with “A” or “P” (or their lowercase equivalents) and GC will sort them 
appropriately. Be sure to put the A or P in front and not at the end or you’ll 
end up with 800A and 800P right next to each other with say 830A following. 
Sorting is by character in order left to right.

Hope that helps,

Adrien


> On May 28, 2017, at 12:00 PM, Kurt Tsang  wrote:
> 
> I'd like to know is it possible input the time in transactions? It's really 
> important for me to track the history..
> For example "2017-04-01 08:00" paid to McDonal for Food:Breadfast.
> 
> And  is it possible have a web version?
> Thanks a lot
> 
> iPadから送信
> クルト・ソン
> ___
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Re: Newbie account matching

[ar]

Thank you,

Aleksey


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> ar  writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I had just switched to gnucash from many years of quicken. So, far it
> works
> > fine.
> >
> > The only problem is account matching. I am not looking into something
> fancy
> > - the vast majority of our expenses is in less than 10 stores and less
> than
> > 10 gas stations, everything else I can classify manually.
> >
> > In addition to that there are quirks/bugs per reporting company.
> >
> > I suppose I can easily write a script that will perform proper matching.
> > However, I am using it on win10 and there are no python bindings. Hence I
> > have to write a standalone pre-processor that will read downloaded file,
> > fix the quirks and add explicit account-id string.
> >
> > My current plan is to generate .csv file and then import it. Should I
> > target .qif instead? What strings should I use as account-ids in .csv
> file?
> > Say if want something to be matched to 'Expenses:Auto:Gas' what string
> > should I use? Should I add any configuration for this to happen?
>
> I would recommend yes, convert it to qif.  Then you can add a QIF
> Category:
>
> LExpenses:Auto:Gas
>
> which the importer will default to the GnuCash Account of the same name.
> If you need to insert an Asset/Liability then you can insert a QIF
> Account:
>
> L[Assets:Checking]
>
> and the same thing will happen.
>
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Aleksey
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> -derek
>
> --
>Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
>warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
>
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Re: GnuCash mobile

[Derek Atkins]

Andy,

I believe that Geert is looking into GTK3 (not Gnome3) support, but I
don't know the current status or if its expected to be completed in time
for 2.8.

-derek

On Tue, May 30, 2017 11:46 am, Andy Pastuszak wrote:
> Will this also include native Gnome 3 support?  I'm kind of hooked on
> Gnome
> 3 GTKHeaderBar.
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Fross, Michael 
> wrote:
>
>> I would think that when GnuCash becomes a  more traditional database
>> application, a lot of doors would open.  The mobile app could interact
>> directly with the data without all of the sync work (which I believe
>> would
>> be significant.)
>>
>> IIRC, the goal for that is at the end of the year.  Derek, if this is
>> what
>> you mean by the C++ rewrite, then apologies for the repetition.
>>
>> And for the record, I think an option to host your own server would be
>> important.
>>
>> Keep up the great work guys.  It's appreciated.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Steve  writes:
>> >
>> > > Personally, I'd be willing to pay $100+ per year for the app.  I
>> don't
>> > expect
>> > > it to be free, I'm thrilled that for the past number of years since
>> > leaving
>> > > Quicken, that I have a program that "works".  To have that
>> information
>> > > available to me wherever I am?  Hard to put a price on it.  Hard for
>> me
>> > to
>> > > imagine that if one is able to translate the current program to a
>> mobile
>> > > app, that it would not get wide adoption with whatever reasonable
>> monthly
>> > > charge.
>> > >
>> > > I'm just saying that with each passing day, having a program that is
>> > > anchored to a desktop or laptop computer, makes increasingly less
>> sense.
>> > > Perhaps progress is being made behind the scenes, I sure hope so.
>> >
>> > The issue at hand is that:
>> >
>> > 1) Building such an app would require time.  It may be possible to
>> >leverage the existing GnuCash for Android app, but it would require
>> a
>> >lot of extra work to handle real-time data syncronization.  Also,
>> >users would probably need/want an iOS version too.
>> >
>> > 2) We'd need to run a service that would enable data sharing between
>> >the app and your desktop.  The easiest way to do this would be a
>> >hosted service that hosts your data wholesale.  Another option
>> would
>> >be to enable you to run your own server, but I suspect MOST users
>> >would not have the resources or skills to do that.
>> >
>> > 3) Before we could get any of this done, we'd need to complete the C++
>> >rewrite of the main code which would enable porting to the other
>> >platforms.
>> >
>> > In short -- doing this would be a lot of work, it it would require a
>> lot
>> > of moving parts to come together.  While I think it's a reasonable
>> long
>> > term goal, I don't see it happening in the next year or three without
>> > some major influx of resources.
>> >
>> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>> >
>> > -derek
>> >
>> > --
>> >Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>> >Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>> >URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
>> >warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
>> > ___
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>> > -
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>> >
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>>
>


-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: GnuCash mobile

[Derek Atkins]

Michael,

"Fross, Michael"  writes:

> I would think that when GnuCash becomes a  more traditional database
> application, a lot of doors would open.  The mobile app could interact
> directly with the data without all of the sync work (which I believe would be
> significant.)

This is part of it, but frankly Joe Average doesn't have the ability to
set up, maintain, secure, and run an open database server.

> IIRC, the goal for that is at the end of the year.  Derek, if this is what you
> mean by the C++ rewrite, then apologies for the repetition.

No, that's not correct.  The goal for the end of this year is the C++
rewrite.  Turning GnuCash into a "true" database app is a longer-term
project, more like ~3 years out.

> And for the record, I think an option to host your own server would be
> important.

Sure, but I expect the majority of users wont.  What's the point of a
mobile app that only works when you're on your home wifi?

> Keep up the great work guys.  It's appreciated.

Thanks,

> Michael

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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Re: GnuCash mobile

[Andy Pastuszak]

Will this also include native Gnome 3 support?  I'm kind of hooked on Gnome
3 GTKHeaderBar.

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Fross, Michael  wrote:

> I would think that when GnuCash becomes a  more traditional database
> application, a lot of doors would open.  The mobile app could interact
> directly with the data without all of the sync work (which I believe would
> be significant.)
>
> IIRC, the goal for that is at the end of the year.  Derek, if this is what
> you mean by the C++ rewrite, then apologies for the repetition.
>
> And for the record, I think an option to host your own server would be
> important.
>
> Keep up the great work guys.  It's appreciated.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Steve  writes:
> >
> > > Personally, I'd be willing to pay $100+ per year for the app.  I don't
> > expect
> > > it to be free, I'm thrilled that for the past number of years since
> > leaving
> > > Quicken, that I have a program that "works".  To have that information
> > > available to me wherever I am?  Hard to put a price on it.  Hard for me
> > to
> > > imagine that if one is able to translate the current program to a
> mobile
> > > app, that it would not get wide adoption with whatever reasonable
> monthly
> > > charge.
> > >
> > > I'm just saying that with each passing day, having a program that is
> > > anchored to a desktop or laptop computer, makes increasingly less
> sense.
> > > Perhaps progress is being made behind the scenes, I sure hope so.
> >
> > The issue at hand is that:
> >
> > 1) Building such an app would require time.  It may be possible to
> >leverage the existing GnuCash for Android app, but it would require a
> >lot of extra work to handle real-time data syncronization.  Also,
> >users would probably need/want an iOS version too.
> >
> > 2) We'd need to run a service that would enable data sharing between
> >the app and your desktop.  The easiest way to do this would be a
> >hosted service that hosts your data wholesale.  Another option would
> >be to enable you to run your own server, but I suspect MOST users
> >would not have the resources or skills to do that.
> >
> > 3) Before we could get any of this done, we'd need to complete the C++
> >rewrite of the main code which would enable porting to the other
> >platforms.
> >
> > In short -- doing this would be a lot of work, it it would require a lot
> > of moving parts to come together.  While I think it's a reasonable long
> > term goal, I don't see it happening in the next year or three without
> > some major influx of resources.
> >
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> > -derek
> >
> > --
> >Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
> >Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
> >URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
> >warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
> > ___
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> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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> >
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Re: Issues with Jobs and Purchase Orders.

[Mike or Penny Novack]

On 5/30/2017 8:54 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
On 30 May 2017 at 12:26, Mike or Penny Novack 
> wrote:


 I was not referring to meetings among the people 
designing/writing/testing the new software. I was referring to meetings 
(and testing by) USERS, those who will be using the software.


And I strongly disagree that those writing the software would know WHAT 
the software was supposed to do in the BUSINESS SENSE. They are not the 
people using "jobs" and "purchase orders" etc. in their business. Sure, 
in my days in the cypher mines I did plenty of software that was more or 
less just FOR the system (see what the system does now; make that 
better, faster, easier to modify safely, etc.). Or even writing tools to 
make writing special ad hoc programs of a type we did often easier to 
write. But this is different, more like the bigger projects providing a 
new feature wanted by the BUSINESS people to do what they needed to be done.


Look, in my working experience, the USERS begin with a vague/general 
idea of what they need. They do NOT (initially) see all the 
exception/rare cases the new system must handle. They do not start out 
thinking about "if I enter something wrong, what sort of error feedback 
do I get". I was talking about meetings to define the specifications 
from the business point of view.


If there are not well defined specifications for what a program is 
SUPPOSED to do, then as long as the program doesn't hang or loop it is 
correct. But won't be what the (business) customers wanted.


Michael D Novack, FLMI

<< and I suspect my idea of "a large program" might be different. Say 
100K to 500K lines?? >>

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Re: Newbie account matching

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

ar  writes:

> Hi,
>
> I had just switched to gnucash from many years of quicken. So, far it works
> fine.
>
> The only problem is account matching. I am not looking into something fancy
> - the vast majority of our expenses is in less than 10 stores and less than
> 10 gas stations, everything else I can classify manually.
>
> In addition to that there are quirks/bugs per reporting company.
>
> I suppose I can easily write a script that will perform proper matching.
> However, I am using it on win10 and there are no python bindings. Hence I
> have to write a standalone pre-processor that will read downloaded file,
> fix the quirks and add explicit account-id string.
>
> My current plan is to generate .csv file and then import it. Should I
> target .qif instead? What strings should I use as account-ids in .csv file?
> Say if want something to be matched to 'Expenses:Auto:Gas' what string
> should I use? Should I add any configuration for this to happen?

I would recommend yes, convert it to qif.  Then you can add a QIF
Category:

LExpenses:Auto:Gas

which the importer will default to the GnuCash Account of the same name.
If you need to insert an Asset/Liability then you can insert a QIF
Account:

L[Assets:Checking]

and the same thing will happen.

> Thank you,
>
> Aleksey

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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Re: Changing the default field in search

[Andy Pastuszak]

Thanks for the reply!

Andy


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Andy Pastuszak  writes:
>
> > Whenever I use Search, I am usually picking "Value" as the field I am
> > searching for.  Is there a way to make Value the default when I choose
> > Search?
>
> Sorry, no.  The list/order/default is hardcoded in the app.
> You'd need to adjust the list and rebuild gnucash to change it.
> Sorry,
>
> > Andy Pastuszak
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> -derek
>
> --
>Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
>warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
>
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Re: Changing the default field in search

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

Andy Pastuszak  writes:

> Whenever I use Search, I am usually picking "Value" as the field I am
> searching for.  Is there a way to make Value the default when I choose
> Search?

Sorry, no.  The list/order/default is hardcoded in the app.
You'd need to adjust the list and rebuild gnucash to change it.
Sorry,

> Andy Pastuszak

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
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Re: GnuCash mobile

[Fross, Michael]

I would think that when GnuCash becomes a  more traditional database
application, a lot of doors would open.  The mobile app could interact
directly with the data without all of the sync work (which I believe would
be significant.)

IIRC, the goal for that is at the end of the year.  Derek, if this is what
you mean by the C++ rewrite, then apologies for the repetition.

And for the record, I think an option to host your own server would be
important.

Keep up the great work guys.  It's appreciated.

Michael

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Steve  writes:
>
> > Personally, I'd be willing to pay $100+ per year for the app.  I don't
> expect
> > it to be free, I'm thrilled that for the past number of years since
> leaving
> > Quicken, that I have a program that "works".  To have that information
> > available to me wherever I am?  Hard to put a price on it.  Hard for me
> to
> > imagine that if one is able to translate the current program to a mobile
> > app, that it would not get wide adoption with whatever reasonable monthly
> > charge.
> >
> > I'm just saying that with each passing day, having a program that is
> > anchored to a desktop or laptop computer, makes increasingly less sense.
> > Perhaps progress is being made behind the scenes, I sure hope so.
>
> The issue at hand is that:
>
> 1) Building such an app would require time.  It may be possible to
>leverage the existing GnuCash for Android app, but it would require a
>lot of extra work to handle real-time data syncronization.  Also,
>users would probably need/want an iOS version too.
>
> 2) We'd need to run a service that would enable data sharing between
>the app and your desktop.  The easiest way to do this would be a
>hosted service that hosts your data wholesale.  Another option would
>be to enable you to run your own server, but I suspect MOST users
>would not have the resources or skills to do that.
>
> 3) Before we could get any of this done, we'd need to complete the C++
>rewrite of the main code which would enable porting to the other
>platforms.
>
> In short -- doing this would be a lot of work, it it would require a lot
> of moving parts to come together.  While I think it's a reasonable long
> term goal, I don't see it happening in the next year or three without
> some major influx of resources.
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> -derek
>
> --
>Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
>warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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Re: Issues with Jobs and Purchase Orders.

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 30 May 2017 at 12:26, Mike or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:

> On 5/29/2017 10:45 PM, Bruce Danielson wrote:
>
>> I agree Dave, and getting that done in 100 hours I think is optimistic.
>> Realistically I think it is probably well beyond the scope of “free”
>> software.
>>
>>
>> If the developers ever considered offering a “Pro” version of GnuCash, on
>> a pay per license basis, that might work.  NCH gets $70 a copy for theirs,
>> and I think at its core, GnuCash is a better product,  But I’m not really
>> familiar with Gnu’s philosophy.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
> Commenting in the middle (for both above and below)
>
> a) "Free Software" licensing means can't do THAT. What would be "legal"
> would be OTHER software that produced feeds (files of transactions, etc.)
> that could be imported into GnuCash. Not only for this. Think of other
> business needs like an inventory system, point of sales system, etc. BTW,
> that's often how large systems are designed, Thus where I used to work, a
> number of other systems sent feeds to the "general ledger" system << which
> was the accounting part >>
>


>
> b) On time and cost. I don't know about Silicon Valley, but around here
> where I used to work, maybe $100/hour. But the time is a gross
> underestimate.


The time estimate I got from a senior developer. It was not a number I
picked out of the air.


> Even if correct for the CODING time has left out many other parts of a
> successful "project". Start with meetings of a USER GROUP (+ business
> analyst) which will decide on exactly what this new subsystem will do. Then
> a systems analyst specs the new system and a testing plan for it. Only then
> it is coded. Then it is tested (user group for that too). Where I worked
> they used to estimate the coding part as usually 40% or under of the total
> time << remember, a 2 hour meeting with 5 users and an analyst is 12 people
> hours >>
>

My experience of developing open-source software, includes projects I have
started from scratch, and huge projects like SageMath

http://www.sagemath.org/

which was started by Professor William Stein at the University of
Washington, but has 100 or so developers. These don't tend to need great
big long meetings, that tend to eat up lots of time in companies. I think a
lot of time is wasted in companies in meetings, which is why places have
"stand up meetings"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting

to cut down on the unnecessary time these eat up.

I suspect thread on features for purchase orders, and another on features
for quotes/proforma invoices, would be able to reach some sort of consensus
about what are the most desirable features.

There are a number of people wanting such a feature - quotations has 57
votes here

https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/2477299-implement-quotations-which-can-be-converted-to-inv

with a comment by Geert Janssens
 that "I have
merged these two ideas into one because in code they are essentially the
same thing. Implementing quotes for customers is about the same code as
implementing purchase orders for vendors."



> I would NOT be willing to get involved volunteering my time unless there
> were a committed user group willing to do their parts. Too often we see
> complaints after "does not do what I expected or what I need". Sorry, but
> the new program IS correct, it does what it does, where were YOU when it
> was time to specify what it was SUPPOSED to do?  What it had to do to
> satisfy your needs?
>
> Michael D Novack, FLMI  retired senior systems/business analyst for
> one of the world's largest insurance companies
>

Do you have the time, skills and enthusiasm to implement quotes/purchase
orders/ proforma invoices, IF a group could be set up that could set some a
specification, and offer to do testing? From the number of people
requesting such features, it would seem likely that such a group could be
set up, and come up with a set of specifications. Perhaps with comments on
a Wiki and/or email discussions.

But it needs someone willing to code it. Personally I don't see 100 hours
as a lot of time in the development of an open-source project. People tend
to work on things like this when they have a bit of spare time. It is not
like 3 weeks of work where someone does nothing else, but more likely one
hour/day over the course of several months. One day one a person might
spend several hours working on something, and another week they do nothing.
At least that's my experience of open-source software.

Dave
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Re: Issues with Jobs and Purchase Orders.

[Mike or Penny Novack]

On 5/29/2017 10:45 PM, Bruce Danielson wrote:

I agree Dave, and getting that done in 100 hours I think is optimistic.  
Realistically I think it is probably well beyond the scope of “free” software.


If the developers ever considered offering a “Pro” version of GnuCash, on a pay 
per license basis, that might work.  NCH gets $70 a copy for theirs, and I 
think at its core, GnuCash is a better product,  But I’m not really familiar 
with Gnu’s philosophy.
  


Bruce

Commenting in the middle (for both above and below)

a) "Free Software" licensing means can't do THAT. What would be "legal" 
would be OTHER software that produced feeds (files of transactions, 
etc.) that could be imported into GnuCash. Not only for this. Think of 
other business needs like an inventory system, point of sales system, 
etc. BTW, that's often how large systems are designed, Thus where I used 
to work, a number of other systems sent feeds to the "general ledger" 
system << which was the accounting part >>


b) On time and cost. I don't know about Silicon Valley, but around here 
where I used to work, maybe $100/hour. But the time is a gross 
underestimate. Even if correct for the CODING time has left out many 
other parts of a successful "project". Start with meetings of a USER 
GROUP (+ business analyst) which will decide on exactly what this new 
subsystem will do. Then a systems analyst specs the new system and a 
testing plan for it. Only then it is coded. Then it is tested (user 
group for that too). Where I worked they used to estimate the coding 
part as usually 40% or under of the total time << remember, a 2 hour 
meeting with 5 users and an analyst is 12 people hours >>


I would NOT be willing to get involved volunteering my time unless there 
were a committed user group willing to do their parts. Too often we see 
complaints after "does not do what I expected or what I need". Sorry, 
but the new program IS correct, it does what it does, where were YOU 
when it was time to specify what it was SUPPOSED to do?  What it had to 
do to satisfy your needs?


Michael D Novack, FLMI  retired senior systems/business analyst for 
one of the world's largest insurance companies




From: drkir...@gmail.com [mailto:drkir...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Dr. 
David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 2:44 PM 
To: Bruce Danielson Cc: Adrien Monteleone; GNU Cash User Subject: Re: 
Issues with Jobs and Purchase Orders. On 29 May 2017 at 16:53, Bruce 
Danielson  wrote: I see that clearly Dave as an 
excellent addition – and quotations are related to purchase orders as 
invoices are to bills and customers to vendors. Thanks for that bit of 
insight. Bruce I doubt quotations and/or purchase orders will be added 
any time soon - if at all. I did offer one of the GnuCash developers a 
modest sum ($100) if he could add support for quotations, as it would 
benefit my business. He did not do jobs for money, but someone else who 
would, had no time to do the job. But the developer estimated adding 
support for quotations would be 100 hours of work, and I told the amount 
of money a software developer earned in Silicon Valley was about 
$500/hour. A simple bit of maths indicates that to pay for this to be 
developed on a commercial basis ($50,000) , which was far in excess of 
the $100 I was offering. The developers have a roadmap, 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Roadmap which seems primarily on cleaning 
up the code. Hence unless there was a substantial amount of money 
raised, I don't think quotations will be added any time soon, and I'm 
lead to believe purchase orders would be similar code. If someone could 
find a GnuCash developer willing to add purchase orders / quotations for 
a fixed feed, and there was crowdfunding to get it going, conceivably 
these features could be added. But I don't think this is likely to 
happen to be honest. Dave 
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