Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[Geert Janssens]

Op woensdag 13 december 2017 01:57:43 CET schreef brad:
> I would like to see something on this in the wiki.
> 
It's a wiki, so everyone is invited to make (sensible) changes to it :)

You can request an account and add a summary of this yourself. It would be a 
great contribution.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[Nith Valley Organics]

We do have sqlite3 on the mac.

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:57 PM, brad  wrote:
> 
> I would like to see something on this in the wiki.
> 
> Just because Mac & windows don't have python and sql by default doesn't mean 
> that the knowledge base should be dumbed down.
> 
> 
> On 12/11/2017 09:29 PM, John Ralls wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 11, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 2017-12-11 at 16:01 -0800, John Ralls wrote:
> On Dec 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
> 
> I'm starting to migrate from QuickBooks to GnuCash.
> I'm working my way through the integration issues with
> Gnucash - Python - Postgresql
> How would the GnuCash team prefer that I document this for the benefit
> of others?
> 
> I've got about 30 years of unix/database/network systems engineering
> under my belt and without that to draw on I don't think I would be able
> to work my way through this as the documentation seems rather sparse and
> fractured.
> 
> I'll have to document it for my own purposes anyway so let me know if
> there's interest.
> 
 Chaz,
 
 Can you outline what you propose to document? Integration with QuickBooks 
 doesn’t really make sense to me and SQL servers have plenty of 
 documentation themselves as well as hundreds of books and websites 
 teaching how to administer them. Repeating any of that in our 
 documentation would be pointless.
 
 Regards,
 John Ralls
 
 
>>> John,
>>> What I will be documenting is the actual nuts and bolts process for
>>> using GnuCash, Python, and Postgresql together.  Integration is probably
>>> too strong a word right now but I see these three as being very
>>> complementary.  While it might be true that all of the information is
>>> out there somewhere, I have had to make a number of educated guesses in
>>> the process of just getting GnuCash and Postgresql working together.
>>> This was after purchasing and reading all three books on GnuCash and
>>> spending a good deal of time with on-line research.  Most people are not
>>> going to have the time to become dba's in order to reap the benefits of
>>> an RDBMS such as Postgresql.  I find they can benefit from having the
>>> documentation for something like this pulled together in a single
>>> narrative.  Given that the average PC today can easily handle running a
>>> combination like this, it seems natural to leverage the capabilities of
>>> a database like Postgresql.
>>> S...  I just thought I'd ask if there was a place put this kind of
>>> information and a process for getting it there.
>> It seems to me that your personal blog might be a good place to document the 
>> “process”. I think that anything involving coding is not of major interest 
>> to 99 and 44/100% of our user base. That’s not to say that you can’t write 
>> useful articles about it for the wiki, but the wiki’s general style is more 
>> descriptive than narrative.
>> 
>> As for most people not having the time to learn to be DBAs, I agree. What I 
>> disagree about is that they should set up a DB server anyway. With your 30 
>> years of experience you might think that maintaining a DB server and 
>> ensuring that it’s secure and that the data is properly backed up is 
>> trivial, but for nearly all users that’s far from being the case. If it’s 
>> possible to write “How to be a competent DBA in 30 minutes” then there are a 
>> dozen books and 100+ websites out there already. I haven’t found them and I 
>> don’t think it’s possible, but if I’m wrong then far better to put some 
>> pointers in the wiki than to create the 137th version.
>> 
>> It is possible, even simple, to enjoy the benefits of SQL without messing 
>> around with being a server DBA. SQLite3 creates a very usable SQL database 
>> in a single file that can be easily copied for backup, no administration 
>> required--in fact, nothing much to administer.
>> 
>> One more point: You perhaps misunderstand how GnuCash uses the database 
>> backends. It is not (yet, nor will it be in 2.8) a database application. It 
>> uses the database as a data store, reading the whole thing into memory at 
>> the beginning of the session. After that the only queries are updates and 
>> inserts.
>> 
>> To answer your final question, the place in the GnuCash infrastructure to 
>> put it would be the wiki, https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki 
>> . Thanks to spammers we have had to insert 
>> human approval into the account creation process. Just say something about 
>> what you want to write so that we know that you’re not a spam-bot or someone 
>> who thinks they need a wiki account to use the program and your request will 
>> be quickly approved. After that there’s a one-week waiting period for your 
>> account to be blessed for editing. There might be an issue about creating 
>> pages after 

Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[Wm via gnucash-user]

On 13/12/2017 00:57, brad wrote:

I would like to see something on this in the wiki.

Just because Mac & windows don't have python and sql by default doesn't 
mean that the knowledge base should be dumbed down.


It is not a case of dumbing down.  Building gnucash with python on 
windows is genuinely difficult.  It involves exact versions of a whole 
load of supporting bits and pieces and as soon as any of those change 
you have to start again.


--
Wm


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Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[John Ralls]

> On Dec 11, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2017-12-11 at 16:01 -0800, John Ralls wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm starting to migrate from QuickBooks to GnuCash.
>>> I'm working my way through the integration issues with
>>> Gnucash - Python - Postgresql
>>> How would the GnuCash team prefer that I document this for the benefit
>>> of others?
>>> 
>>> I've got about 30 years of unix/database/network systems engineering
>>> under my belt and without that to draw on I don't think I would be able
>>> to work my way through this as the documentation seems rather sparse and
>>> fractured.
>>> 
>>> I'll have to document it for my own purposes anyway so let me know if
>>> there's interest.
>>> 
>> Chaz,
>> 
>> Can you outline what you propose to document? Integration with QuickBooks 
>> doesn’t really make sense to me and SQL servers have plenty of documentation 
>> themselves as well as hundreds of books and websites teaching how to 
>> administer them. Repeating any of that in our documentation would be 
>> pointless.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>> 
>> 
> John,
> What I will be documenting is the actual nuts and bolts process for
> using GnuCash, Python, and Postgresql together.  Integration is probably
> too strong a word right now but I see these three as being very
> complementary.  While it might be true that all of the information is
> out there somewhere, I have had to make a number of educated guesses in
> the process of just getting GnuCash and Postgresql working together.
> This was after purchasing and reading all three books on GnuCash and
> spending a good deal of time with on-line research.  Most people are not
> going to have the time to become dba's in order to reap the benefits of
> an RDBMS such as Postgresql.  I find they can benefit from having the
> documentation for something like this pulled together in a single
> narrative.  Given that the average PC today can easily handle running a
> combination like this, it seems natural to leverage the capabilities of
> a database like Postgresql.
> S...  I just thought I'd ask if there was a place put this kind of
> information and a process for getting it there.

It seems to me that your personal blog might be a good place to document the 
“process”. I think that anything involving coding is not of major interest to 
99 and 44/100% of our user base. That’s not to say that you can’t write useful 
articles about it for the wiki, but the wiki’s general style is more 
descriptive than narrative. 

As for most people not having the time to learn to be DBAs, I agree. What I 
disagree about is that they should set up a DB server anyway. With your 30 
years of experience you might think that maintaining a DB server and ensuring 
that it’s secure and that the data is properly backed up is trivial, but for 
nearly all users that’s far from being the case. If it’s possible to write “How 
to be a competent DBA in 30 minutes” then there are a dozen books and 100+ 
websites out there already. I haven’t found them and I don’t think it’s 
possible, but if I’m wrong then far better to put some pointers in the wiki 
than to create the 137th version.

It is possible, even simple, to enjoy the benefits of SQL without messing 
around with being a server DBA. SQLite3 creates a very usable SQL database in a 
single file that can be easily copied for backup, no administration 
required--in fact, nothing much to administer.

One more point: You perhaps misunderstand how GnuCash uses the database 
backends. It is not (yet, nor will it be in 2.8) a database application. It 
uses the database as a data store, reading the whole thing into memory at the 
beginning of the session. After that the only queries are updates and inserts.

To answer your final question, the place in the GnuCash infrastructure to put 
it would be the wiki, https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki 
. Thanks to spammers we have had to insert human 
approval into the account creation process. Just say something about what you 
want to write so that we know that you’re not a spam-bot or someone who thinks 
they need a wiki account to use the program and your request will be quickly 
approved. After that there’s a one-week waiting period for your account to be 
blessed for editing. There might be an issue about creating pages after that; 
if you have a problem best to bring it up on IRC 
(https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/IRC ).

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Chaz,
Seems like that sort of write up might go on the wiki. I'll note that neither 
python nor the sql aspects of gnucash are consistently available to the average 
user, so your write up may have limited utility.
Python is only available to Mac users if they compile gnucash themselves, for 
example.
The sql back ends require similar additional installation. On top of that, the 
sql functionality does not match most users' expectations, especially with 
regard to multi user access. The structures for gnucash data are not 
normalized, either. 
These issues have been discussed in the lists at length, but a write up on the 
wiki might help. 
David

 
 
  On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 5:42, Charles Sliger wrote:   
On Mon, 2017-12-11 at 16:01 -0800, John Ralls wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
> > 
> > I'm starting to migrate from QuickBooks to GnuCash.
> > I'm working my way through the integration issues with
> > Gnucash - Python - Postgresql
> > How would the GnuCash team prefer that I document this for the benefit
> > of others?
> > 
> > I've got about 30 years of unix/database/network systems engineering
> > under my belt and without that to draw on I don't think I would be able
> > to work my way through this as the documentation seems rather sparse and
> > fractured.
> > 
> > I'll have to document it for my own purposes anyway so let me know if
> > there's interest.
> > 
> Chaz,
> 
> Can you outline what you propose to document? Integration with QuickBooks 
> doesn’t really make sense to me and SQL servers have plenty of documentation 
> themselves as well as hundreds of books and websites teaching how to 
> administer them. Repeating any of that in our documentation would be 
> pointless.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
John,
What I will be documenting is the actual nuts and bolts process for
using GnuCash, Python, and Postgresql together.  Integration is probably
too strong a word right now but I see these three as being very
complementary.  While it might be true that all of the information is
out there somewhere, I have had to make a number of educated guesses in
the process of just getting GnuCash and Postgresql working together.
This was after purchasing and reading all three books on GnuCash and
spending a good deal of time with on-line research.  Most people are not
going to have the time to become dba's in order to reap the benefits of
an RDBMS such as Postgresql.  I find they can benefit from having the
documentation for something like this pulled together in a single
narrative.  Given that the average PC today can easily handle running a
combination like this, it seems natural to leverage the capabilities of
a database like Postgresql.
S...  I just thought I'd ask if there was a place put this kind of
information and a process for getting it there.

Regards,
-- 
-chaz
Charles Sliger
"No matter where you go... There you are... Buckaroo Banzai"


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Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[Charles Sliger]

On Mon, 2017-12-11 at 16:01 -0800, John Ralls wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
> > 
> > I'm starting to migrate from QuickBooks to GnuCash.
> > I'm working my way through the integration issues with
> > Gnucash - Python - Postgresql
> > How would the GnuCash team prefer that I document this for the benefit
> > of others?
> > 
> > I've got about 30 years of unix/database/network systems engineering
> > under my belt and without that to draw on I don't think I would be able
> > to work my way through this as the documentation seems rather sparse and
> > fractured.
> > 
> > I'll have to document it for my own purposes anyway so let me know if
> > there's interest.
> > 
> Chaz,
> 
> Can you outline what you propose to document? Integration with QuickBooks 
> doesn’t really make sense to me and SQL servers have plenty of documentation 
> themselves as well as hundreds of books and websites teaching how to 
> administer them. Repeating any of that in our documentation would be 
> pointless.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
John,
What I will be documenting is the actual nuts and bolts process for
using GnuCash, Python, and Postgresql together.  Integration is probably
too strong a word right now but I see these three as being very
complementary.  While it might be true that all of the information is
out there somewhere, I have had to make a number of educated guesses in
the process of just getting GnuCash and Postgresql working together.
This was after purchasing and reading all three books on GnuCash and
spending a good deal of time with on-line research.  Most people are not
going to have the time to become dba's in order to reap the benefits of
an RDBMS such as Postgresql.  I find they can benefit from having the
documentation for something like this pulled together in a single
narrative.  Given that the average PC today can easily handle running a
combination like this, it seems natural to leverage the capabilities of
a database like Postgresql.
S...  I just thought I'd ask if there was a place put this kind of
information and a process for getting it there.

Regards,
-- 
-chaz
Charles Sliger
"No matter where you go... There you are... Buckaroo Banzai"


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Re: GnuCash: Docs: Where to document?

[John Ralls]

> On Dec 11, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Charles Sliger  wrote:
> 
> I'm starting to migrate from QuickBooks to GnuCash.
> I'm working my way through the integration issues with
> Gnucash - Python - Postgresql
> How would the GnuCash team prefer that I document this for the benefit
> of others?
> 
> I've got about 30 years of unix/database/network systems engineering
> under my belt and without that to draw on I don't think I would be able
> to work my way through this as the documentation seems rather sparse and
> fractured.
> 
> I'll have to document it for my own purposes anyway so let me know if
> there's interest.
> 
Chaz,

Can you outline what you propose to document? Integration with QuickBooks 
doesn’t really make sense to me and SQL servers have plenty of documentation 
themselves as well as hundreds of books and websites teaching how to administer 
them. Repeating any of that in our documentation would be pointless.

Regards,
John Ralls

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