Re: Version Migration

[Matthew Pounsett]

On 31 August 2017 at 22:58, John Ralls  wrote:

>
>
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Mike or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@dialup4less.com> wrote:
> >
> > Are folks saying that sqlite3 does NOT come with a backup/restore
> utility? I would think that at least somewhat strange.
>
> Not a bit. I just pointed out that GnuCash doesn’t create backups with the
> SQL backend the way it does with the XML one.
>
> As always the user should have automatic backups to separate media,
> including off-site, regardless of backend. With SQLite3 that can be done
> with a simple file copy as well as the usual SQL dump that one might use
> with a server database.
>
> Indeed.  There are all sorts of ways that backups can be accomplished.. I
pointed out a zero-effort option which seems to work reliably, but that
doesn't stop people from doing an SQL dump, or manual copy to a USB key or
offsite, or whatever.
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Re: Version Migration

[John Ralls]

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Mike or Penny Novack 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm accomplishing that part by writing the sqlite3 file to Dropbox, which   
> etc. etc. (other discussion of backups)
> 
> 
> I have no familiarity with "small" version implementations of SQL << in my 
> working days, it was mainframe SQL under the DB2 database manger >>
> 
> Are folks saying that sqlite3 does NOT come with a backup/restore utility? I 
> would think that at least somewhat strange.

Not a bit. I just pointed out that GnuCash doesn’t create backups with the SQL 
backend the way it does with the XML one.

As always the user should have automatic backups to separate media, including 
off-site, regardless of backend. With SQLite3 that can be done with a simple 
file copy as well as the usual SQL dump that one might use with a server 
database.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Version Migration

[C M Reinehr]

I do something similar, working between my office PC & my home PC but I 
use SpiderOakONE to backup & synchronize the two PC's. However, my 
GnuCash file is an SQLite database and I found that SOO did not play 
well with the GnuCash file, since GnuCash writes each transaction, one 
at a time to the file. SOO then was seeing each new transaction as a 
"new" file & trying to back it up resulting in a terrific number of 
historical files in the SOO archive.


One way around this problem is to program the SOO program only to backup 
files at certain times of the day, when you are not using GnuCash. What 
I did was to write a simple script that copies the .gnucash directory 
into a working directory which is not monitored by SOO & then when I 
closed the program copy the resulting .gnucash directory back to where 
SOO would see it.


Hope this helps!

CMR


On 08/31/2017 03:28 PM, Rui Dias Costa wrote:

Hi,

We use gnucash in two distinct computers running on windows. Both have the work 
files are in complete sync, including a copy of the gnucash database files.
Since the computers function at different moments in time, never at the same 
time, they both run gnucash all right. No issues.
For instance, we can turn it off in one machine, go to the other and continue 
were we left things.

To sync them we use Resilio Sync. We had some troubles while back using dropbox 
to do this job. Always worked fine.

Regards,
Rui




On 31 Aug 2017, at 20:46, Robert Heller  wrote:

At Thu, 31 Aug 2017 14:29:10 -0400 james  wrote:


On 08/31/17 13:35, Matthew Pounsett wrote:

On 31 August 2017 at 13:33, Geert Janssens 
wrote:


While these solutions will work most of the time they all have the same
risk:
if the snapshot is made while gnucash is updating the db, you end up with
an
inconsistent db file. I don't know how well sqlite3 handles this so the
risk
may be high or low.

I've done a few spot-checks for consistency and never run into a problem.

I don't know this for certain, but it looks as if GnuCash is wrapping each
update in a transaction.  If it is doing that, it would ensure that the
data written to disk is never inconsistent.
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Since my company is small, I'm sticking with the legacy gnu system, for
now. That's the permanently offline system I'm in the process of
migrating too.

Is anyone basically using a USB stick for all records? If so, can you
just plug that USB stick into any of several different (but same version
of gnucash), make changes and store all records on a usb 2 or 3 device?
Then copy usb-stick  for backups?

Should be possible.  A USB stick is just another file system.  There is no
*set-in-stone* reason gnucash's data *has* to be the local system disk.
A given version of Gnucash should behave the same on any number of different
systems.  Generally, the *preferences* (including saved reports) would be
local to each system (since they live in $HOME).  You might need to use the
File->Open menu item to open the data file.


Like others, I am curious to track the database progress, as well as
running gnucash on a cluster.


Anyone running many instances of GNUcash on containers, alpine or just
a bunch of VMs?  I'd be most interested in those experiences too.
Projects of such  multiplicative offerings of gnucash I could follow?

I have a desktop Linux machine (CentOS 6, x86_64) and a laptop Linux machine
(also 6, x86_64).  Generally I run GnuCash (2.4.15-4.el6) on my desktop Linux
machine.  I do have a procedure (shell script) to rsync the GnuCash data &
prefs onto my laptop on occasion, I run GnuCash (also 2.4.15-4.el6) there and
then rsync the GnuCash data & prefs back to my desktop Linux machine.

I don't know if this counts towards what you are asking.


James


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Re: Version Migration

[Jean-David Beyer]

On 08/31/2017 03:46 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> I have a desktop Linux machine (CentOS 6, x86_64) and a laptop Linux machine 
> (also 6, x86_64).  Generally I run GnuCash (2.4.15-4.el6) on my desktop Linux 
> machine.  I do have a procedure (shell script) to rsync the GnuCash data & 
> prefs onto my laptop on occasion, I run GnuCash (also 2.4.15-4.el6) there and 
> then rsync the GnuCash data & prefs back to my desktop Linux machine.
> 
> I don't know if this counts towards what you are asking.

I run gnucash-2.4.15-4.el6.x86_64 on my
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 6.9 (Santiago)
4-core 64-bit machine.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer  Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key:166D840A 0C610C8B Registered Machine  1935521.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jerseyhttp://linuxcounter.net
 ^^-^^ 17:45:01 up 9 days, 1:18, 3 users, load average: 4.45, 4.80, 4.86
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Re: Version Migration

[Rui Dias Costa]

Hi,

We use gnucash in two distinct computers running on windows. Both have the work 
files are in complete sync, including a copy of the gnucash database files.
Since the computers function at different moments in time, never at the same 
time, they both run gnucash all right. No issues.
For instance, we can turn it off in one machine, go to the other and continue 
were we left things.

To sync them we use Resilio Sync. We had some troubles while back using dropbox 
to do this job. Always worked fine.

Regards,
Rui



> On 31 Aug 2017, at 20:46, Robert Heller  wrote:
> 
> At Thu, 31 Aug 2017 14:29:10 -0400 james  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 08/31/17 13:35, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
>>> On 31 August 2017 at 13:33, Geert Janssens 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 
 While these solutions will work most of the time they all have the same
 risk:
 if the snapshot is made while gnucash is updating the db, you end up with
 an
 inconsistent db file. I don't know how well sqlite3 handles this so the
 risk
 may be high or low.
 
 I've done a few spot-checks for consistency and never run into a problem.
>>> I don't know this for certain, but it looks as if GnuCash is wrapping each
>>> update in a transaction.  If it is doing that, it would ensure that the
>>> data written to disk is never inconsistent.
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Since my company is small, I'm sticking with the legacy gnu system, for
>> now. That's the permanently offline system I'm in the process of
>> migrating too.
>> 
>> Is anyone basically using a USB stick for all records? If so, can you
>> just plug that USB stick into any of several different (but same version
>> of gnucash), make changes and store all records on a usb 2 or 3 device?
>> Then copy usb-stick  for backups?
> 
> Should be possible.  A USB stick is just another file system.  There is no 
> *set-in-stone* reason gnucash's data *has* to be the local system disk.  
> A given version of Gnucash should behave the same on any number of different 
> systems.  Generally, the *preferences* (including saved reports) would be 
> local to each system (since they live in $HOME).  You might need to use the 
> File->Open menu item to open the data file.
> 
>> 
>> Like others, I am curious to track the database progress, as well as
>> running gnucash on a cluster.
>> 
>> 
>> Anyone running many instances of GNUcash on containers, alpine or just
>> a bunch of VMs?  I'd be most interested in those experiences too.
>> Projects of such  multiplicative offerings of gnucash I could follow?
> 
> I have a desktop Linux machine (CentOS 6, x86_64) and a laptop Linux machine 
> (also 6, x86_64).  Generally I run GnuCash (2.4.15-4.el6) on my desktop Linux 
> machine.  I do have a procedure (shell script) to rsync the GnuCash data & 
> prefs onto my laptop on occasion, I run GnuCash (also 2.4.15-4.el6) there and 
> then rsync the GnuCash data & prefs back to my desktop Linux machine.
> 
> I don't know if this counts towards what you are asking.
> 
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> -- 
> Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
> Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
> http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
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> 
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Re: Version Migration

[Mike or Penny Novack]

I'm accomplishing that part by writing the sqlite3 file to Dropbox, which   
etc. etc. (other discussion of backups)


I have no familiarity with "small" version implementations of SQL << in my working 
days, it was mainframe SQL under the DB2 database manger >>

Are folks saying that sqlite3 does NOT come with a backup/restore utility? I 
would think that at least somewhat strange.

Michael D Novack




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Re: Version Migration

[Robert Heller]

At Thu, 31 Aug 2017 14:29:10 -0400 james  wrote:

> 
> On 08/31/17 13:35, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> > On 31 August 2017 at 13:33, Geert Janssens 
> > wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >> While these solutions will work most of the time they all have the same
> >> risk:
> >> if the snapshot is made while gnucash is updating the db, you end up with
> >> an
> >> inconsistent db file. I don't know how well sqlite3 handles this so the
> >> risk
> >> may be high or low.
> >>
> >> I've done a few spot-checks for consistency and never run into a problem.
> > I don't know this for certain, but it looks as if GnuCash is wrapping each
> > update in a transaction.  If it is doing that, it would ensure that the
> > data written to disk is never inconsistent.
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > 
> 
> 
> Since my company is small, I'm sticking with the legacy gnu system, for
> now. That's the permanently offline system I'm in the process of
> migrating too.
> 
> Is anyone basically using a USB stick for all records? If so, can you
> just plug that USB stick into any of several different (but same version
> of gnucash), make changes and store all records on a usb 2 or 3 device?
> Then copy usb-stick  for backups?

Should be possible.  A USB stick is just another file system.  There is no 
*set-in-stone* reason gnucash's data *has* to be the local system disk.  
A given version of Gnucash should behave the same on any number of different 
systems.  Generally, the *preferences* (including saved reports) would be 
local to each system (since they live in $HOME).  You might need to use the 
File->Open menu item to open the data file.

> 
> Like others, I am curious to track the database progress, as well as
> running gnucash on a cluster.
> 
> 
> Anyone running many instances of GNUcash on containers, alpine or just
> a bunch of VMs?  I'd be most interested in those experiences too.
> Projects of such  multiplicative offerings of gnucash I could follow?

I have a desktop Linux machine (CentOS 6, x86_64) and a laptop Linux machine 
(also 6, x86_64).  Generally I run GnuCash (2.4.15-4.el6) on my desktop Linux 
machine.  I do have a procedure (shell script) to rsync the GnuCash data & 
prefs onto my laptop on occasion, I run GnuCash (also 2.4.15-4.el6) there and 
then rsync the GnuCash data & prefs back to my desktop Linux machine.

I don't know if this counts towards what you are asking.

> 
> James
> 
> 
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>  

-- 
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Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
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Re: Version Migration

[John Ralls]

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Matthew Pounsett  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 31 August 2017 at 13:33, Geert Janssens  wrote:
> 
> While these solutions will work most of the time they all have the same risk:
> if the snapshot is made while gnucash is updating the db, you end up with an
> inconsistent db file. I don't know how well sqlite3 handles this so the risk
> may be high or low.
> 
> I've done a few spot-checks for consistency and never run into a problem.  I 
> don't know this for certain, but it looks as if GnuCash is wrapping each 
> update in a transaction.  If it is doing that, it would ensure that the data 
> written to disk is never inconsistent. 
> 

Unfortunately the transaction protection mirrors GnuCash objects, so while 
plain GnuCash transactions will be correctly protected, business operations 
will do the business-table changes in one SQL transaction and the actual 
transaction in another. I think that Scheduled Transaction changes will 
similarly commit the template transaction separately from the rest of the SX. 
There are no doubt other cases.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Version Migration

[Matthew Pounsett]

On 31 August 2017 at 13:33, Geert Janssens 
wrote:

>
> While these solutions will work most of the time they all have the same
> risk:
> if the snapshot is made while gnucash is updating the db, you end up with
> an
> inconsistent db file. I don't know how well sqlite3 handles this so the
> risk
> may be high or low.
>
> I've done a few spot-checks for consistency and never run into a problem.
I don't know this for certain, but it looks as if GnuCash is wrapping each
update in a transaction.  If it is doing that, it would ensure that the
data written to disk is never inconsistent.
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Re: Version Migration

[Matthew Pounsett]

On 31 August 2017 at 12:27, John Ralls  wrote:

>
>
> It also doesn't make backups, so unless the user does there's no way to
> roll back to an earlier state. Since all changes are immediately written to
> storage there's also no way to abandon a bunch of changes by quitting
> without saving.
>
> I'm accomplishing that part by writing the sqlite3 file to Dropbox, which
provides file history (so I can roll back if necessary) and takes care of
replicating the data between my desktop and laptop, provided I'm careful
never to run the app in both places at the same time.

The backups could be automatically accomplished with other storage that
provides a versioned backup... MacOS's Time Machine would do the trick, for
example.  ZFS doesn't work particularly well on Linux (it's a Solaris and
BSD thing), but I imagine there's some other option for obtaining snapshots
there, and likewise I assume Windows would have a similar feature.
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Re: Version Migration

[John Ralls]

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:37 AM, james  wrote:
> 
> OK,
> 
> So is using a database faster? Stable? Any advantages?
> 
> Worth the effort to participate in testing and development?

The only current advantages to using the database backend are that it saves 
changes immediately rather than every n minutes and it makes it easier to query 
from outside of GnuCash.

It's no faster, because GnuCash still operates from a memory image; it's slower 
to load the data at the start of a session.

It also doesn't make backups, so unless the user does there's no way to roll 
back to an earlier state. Since all changes are immediately written to storage 
there's also no way to abandon a bunch of changes by quitting without saving.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Version Migration

[james]

OK,

So is using a database faster? Stable? Any advantages?

Worth the effort to participate in testing and development?


James


On 08/29/17 22:00, David T. wrote:
> The biggest problem with the database back end is users' misconception
> that its use implies database functionality. They think it will allow
> them to perform database actions on the data set,  as well as have
> multiple users simultaneously. As you know, neither of these is true at
> this time. 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 1:04, Colin Law
>  wrote:
> On 29 August 2017 at 19:12, D  > wrote:
> > ...
> > The database back end is stable, and has been for a while now.
> There is
> > nothing to prevent a user from making use of it, even for production.
> 
> OK, but note the OP is going to use 2.6.15, which was released in Dec
> 2016 I believe. I don't know whether there have been any significant
> sql related bugs since then.
> 
> Even if not, then it cannot be denied that the xml backend has had
> vastly more use than the sql backend. Certainly anyone using a db
> should make sure they take regular backups of the db (which can be
> trickier than just copying the xml file).
> 
> 
> Colin
> 

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Re: Version Migration

[David T. via gnucash-user]

The biggest problem with the database back end is users' misconception that its 
use implies database functionality. They think it will allow them to perform 
database actions on the data set,  as well as have multiple users 
simultaneously. As you know, neither of these is true at this time. 
David

 
 
  On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 1:04, Colin Law wrote:   On 29 
August 2017 at 19:12, D  wrote:
> ...
> The database back end is stable, and has been for a while now. There is
> nothing to prevent a user from making use of it, even for production.

OK, but note the OP is going to use 2.6.15, which was released in Dec
2016 I believe. I don't know whether there have been any significant
sql related bugs since then.

Even if not, then it cannot be denied that the xml backend has had
vastly more use than the sql backend. Certainly anyone using a db
should make sure they take regular backups of the db (which can be
trickier than just copying the xml file).

Colin  
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Re: Version Migration

[Colin Law]

On 29 August 2017 at 16:36, james  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Background
> So I've been running on gnucash 2.4.11 for some years.
> it's been great, the only problems were my lack of
> knowledge of finance. I want to migrate to version 2.6.15
> (using gentoo linux).
>
>
> My only accounting problem is my depreciation does not match
> what the accountant has been doing. They are the authority,
> so It's entries on depreciation that need to be fixed.
>
> Note, I have never 'closed the books' since the beginning because
> I knew I need to fix the depreciation schedules on about (6) items.
> It's a small company. I've been sick off and on for (3) years
> running, so not much actively the last few years. I'm finally
> better and ready to resume active business.
>
> 
>
>
> So, should I fix the depreciation on the new version of gnucash
> (my preferred method) or on the old slow lappy and version 2.4.11?
>
>
> I'm in the process of installing a laptop to exclusively run gnucash,
> mostly offline (no physical internet) on gentoo linux (fav distro).
>
>
> Any documents I need to review before doing the migration to the new
> laptop? I have both scp and usb sticks for the migration.
>
> I think I want to use a database now, pgsql.
>
> hit me up with ideas, and whatever make me plan out this migration
> before starting...

If you do not have any saved reports then all you need to is to plug
the usb stick in the old machine, in GC use File > Save As to save
your accounts file to the stick, plug it in the new machine, open GC
and use File > Open to open it from the stick then File > Save As to
save it somewhere appropriate.

Note that the database storage schemes are not yet recommended for
'production' use I believe.

Colin
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Version Migration

[james]

Hello all,

Background
So I've been running on gnucash 2.4.11 for some years.
it's been great, the only problems were my lack of
knowledge of finance. I want to migrate to version 2.6.15
(using gentoo linux).


My only accounting problem is my depreciation does not match
what the accountant has been doing. They are the authority,
so It's entries on depreciation that need to be fixed.

Note, I have never 'closed the books' since the beginning because
I knew I need to fix the depreciation schedules on about (6) items.
It's a small company. I've been sick off and on for (3) years
running, so not much actively the last few years. I'm finally
better and ready to resume active business.




So, should I fix the depreciation on the new version of gnucash
(my preferred method) or on the old slow lappy and version 2.4.11?


I'm in the process of installing a laptop to exclusively run gnucash,
mostly offline (no physical internet) on gentoo linux (fav distro).


Any documents I need to review before doing the migration to the new
laptop? I have both scp and usb sticks for the migration.

I think I want to use a database now, pgsql.

hit me up with ideas, and whatever make me plan out this migration
before starting...

James
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