Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Mark Fernandes via Gnupg-users]

> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 12:10:59 +0100
> From: Dirk Gottschalk 
> To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> Subject: Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)
> Message-ID:
> <39d845f714609d1ce09286e991ab1056e9dfae2a.ca...@googlemail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> ...
>
> Am Montag, den 05.10.2020, 17:37 +0200 schrieb Stefan Claas:
> > ...
> >
> > My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC
> > tag attached,
> > containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. ...
> > [...]
>
> ...
> The Tags should have enough memory to take encrypted messages. I think
> at least 12k. The more memory, the longer can the message be.
>
> 



It might be better only to use tags that have relatively small amounts of
memory, in order to be more secure: if your computer has been hacked, it
may try to do arbitrary code execution of data on the NFC, where someone
may have deceptively planted malware.


Kind regards,


Mark Fernandes
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Dirk Gottschalk via Gnupg-users]

Hello Stefan.

Am Montag, den 05.10.2020, 17:37 +0200 schrieb Stefan Claas:
> Hi all,
> 
> while I did some JAB-Code experiments with MMS, to send GnuPG
> messages with a dumb
> phone, I came up now with a new idea. :-)
> 
> For that I need five people who are willing to share with me their
> postal address.
> You can send me your address GnuPG encrypted. I will not store your
> address on my
> computer and will delete your email, once I received it.
> 
> My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC
> tag attached,
> containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. I like to see if the
> postcards will
> arrive in proper condition, so that the NFC tags are still readable.
> [...]

For this test I would suggest to not use NFC stickers or anything like
that. I would suggest using plastic cards with embedded NFC Tags.

The reason for my suggestion. I'm working at a company which creates
and sells solutions for european transportation and logistics
companies. We use NFC tags for a drivers license check. These are
stickers on the drivers license card to check if it is available.
Removing them from the card destroys them. We now had multiple times
the problem that those stickers were dead on arrival. We did a fw tests
ans saw that the problem occurs only after the tags were on the postal
way. Perhaps some strong magnetic fields in the postal systems, or
anything like that.

Now as we send and receive those tags in boxes, we didn't have Problems
anymore.

Cards never had this problem, as far as I can tell.

The Tags should have enough memory to take encrypted messages. I think
at least 12k. The more memory, the longer can the message be.

Another benefit of using plastic cards instead of sticker tags is: They
are reusable.

Kind regards,
Dirk

-- 
Dirk Gottschalk

GPG key Fingerprint: C8F4 4499 861E D5B7 66FC  18F5 8E34 AF58 6574 32C8
Keyoxide: https://keybase.io/dgottschalk
GitHub: https://github.com/Dirk1980ac



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:
 
> Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
>  
> > Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital
> > device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can
> > maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained
> > in the linked QR below:
> 
> I just downloaded a free QR-Code app from Microsoft's Store and I was able
> to decode and decrypt the message. It ends with '...linked QR below:'
> but does not contain the link. I must say that for me and the provide
> content, the image size is to big for my taste. I will feed now the message
> into JAB-code and see how big the image size is there.
> 
> A user reported to me that with his QR-Code software he was not able to
> decode the message. He usually had always good results with QR-code in the
> past. Maybe you can tell me what QR-Code software you used, so that the
> user can try with a different or the same software.

I received an encrypted postcard today, which included an NFC tag and a QR-code.

While decrypting the message from the NFC tag was no problem, the very dense
QR-code I was not able to decode. And I used a high dpi setting for scanning.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Remco Rijnders wrote:
 
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I feel (speaking only for myself), that this subject has ventured off far 
> enough
> to no longer be on topic for this list, if it ever was to begin with. While it
> might make for interesting reading, other forums might be more suitable for 
> it,
> or even a postal only remailing club or something, I don't know.

Hi Remco,

sorry about that, but at least this tread is intended for GnuPG users and
an IMHO new way for GnuPG users to communicate and due to this subject it
can get quite a bit off-topic. But since this is relatively small ASCII
text only and not the same as HTML spam email, with pictures, I desperately
hope that the majority of GnuPG users can handle this. Or maybe people
could put such threads and me into killfiles etc.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Remco Rijnders]

Hi Stefan,

I feel (speaking only for myself), that this subject has ventured off far enough
to no longer be on topic for this list, if it ever was to begin with. While it
might make for interesting reading, other forums might be more suitable for it,
or even a postal only remailing club or something, I don't know.

Thanks,

Remco

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:
 
> Stefan Claas wrote:
>  
> > Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
> >  
> > > Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital
> > > device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can
> > > maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained
> > > in the linked QR below:
> > 
> > I just downloaded a free QR-Code app from Microsoft's Store and I was able
> > to decode and decrypt the message. It ends with '...linked QR below:'
> > but does not contain the link. I must say that for me and the provide
> > content, the image size is to big for my taste. I will feed now the message
> > into JAB-code and see how big the image size is there.
> 
> Ok. the message from you is with a JAB-Code generated .png image:
> 
> 396x396 pixels with 72 dpi, compared to your 2000x2000 pixels with 72 dpi.

SORRY!!! I accidentely encoded the plain text and not the
PGP message. The correct result is 1020x1020 pixels!

Regards
Stefan


-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:
 
> Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
>  
> > Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital
> > device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can
> > maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained
> > in the linked QR below:
> 
> I just downloaded a free QR-Code app from Microsoft's Store and I was able
> to decode and decrypt the message. It ends with '...linked QR below:'
> but does not contain the link. I must say that for me and the provide
> content, the image size is to big for my taste. I will feed now the message
> into JAB-code and see how big the image size is there.

Ok. the message from you is with a JAB-Code generated .png image:

396x396 pixels with 72 dpi, compared to your 2000x2000 pixels with 72 dpi.

P.S. I do have for Windows users jabcodeReader.exe and jabcodeWriter.exe
available, if someone likes to play with Fraunhofer's JABcode offline.

https://jabcode.org/

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
 
> Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital
> device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can
> maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained
> in the linked QR below:

I just downloaded a free QR-Code app from Microsoft's Store and I was able
to decode and decrypt the message. It ends with '...linked QR below:'
but does not contain the link. I must say that for me and the provide
content, the image size is to big for my taste. I will feed now the message
into JAB-code and see how big the image size is there.

A user reported to me that with his QR-Code software he was not able to
decode the message. He usually had always good results with QR-code in the
past. Maybe you can tell me what QR-Code software you used, so that the
user can try with a different or the same software.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Matthias Apitz wrote:
 
> El día lunes, octubre 05, 2020 a las 05:37:57p. m. +0200, Stefan Claas 
> escribió:
> 
> > ...
> > 
> > Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private 
> > content digitally,
> > without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it 
> > difficult to intercept
> > such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
> > generation that
> > local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally 
> > surveilled Internet.
> > 
> 
> I think, even 3rd parties inside the EU will (and should) have it
> difficult to intercept messages in order to protect communication in the
> EU (and not only businesses). Why do you underlined outside only?

I think when it comes to mass surveillance or cyber threats these things 
usually originate
from regions outside the EU but unfortunately affects citizens or businesses in 
the EU too.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[MFPA via Gnupg-users]

Hi


On Tuesday 6 October 2020 at 5:23:40 PM, in
, Stefan Claas wrote:-


> I like to promote the postcards option because the
> postage is cheaper than
> letters if not done regularly.

Only in some countries. Always been exactly the same price where I live.

-- 
Best regards

MFPA  

Live your life as though every day it was your last.

pgp4jDlyYbwjW.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Matthias Apitz]

El día lunes, octubre 05, 2020 a las 05:37:57p. m. +0200, Stefan Claas escribió:

> ...
> 
> Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private content 
> digitally,
> without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it difficult 
> to intercept
> such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
> generation that
> local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally surveilled 
> Internet.
> 

I think, even 3rd parties inside the EU will (and should) have it
difficult to intercept messages in order to protect communication in the
EU (and not only businesses). Why do you underlined outside only?

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045
Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub
Без книги нет знания, без знания нет коммунизма (Влaдимир Ильич Ленин)
Without books no knowledge - without knowledge no communism (Vladimir Ilyich 
Lenin)
Sin libros no hay saber - sin saber no hay comunismo. (Vladimir Ilich Lenin)

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
 
> Sure, but you gotta admit that you’re an extreme edge case of a group of 
> users that are already kinda edge cases.  Most
> people have QR readers and just don’t realize it.  Very few people would need 
> this kind of offline method anyhow, and those
> that would probably have much better spycraft than we can dream up here, 
> stuff far beyond putting RFIDs on postcards or QR
> codes on traffic poles.

Yes, I admit this and I think it is good to show these possibilities to people 
grown up in an Internet regulated world.

> The size BTW is arbitrary and can be changed within reason in software, but 
> you want fairly high resolution if you plan to
> print it.  300 ppi at 2K res would give you around 6 inches size printed.   A 
> 1,000 by 1,000 file would make a nice 3x3 inch
> sticker or back of a postcard.  

I am aware of this and if you mean 6x6 inches, if understood correctly, this 
would be to large for a postcard.

Well, anyways I will check your example out tomorrow.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
 
> Yeah, though if you wanted to be sneaky-do you could encrypt a message,
> put it on a QR sticker, slap the sticker on some traffic pole as a dead
> drop, and let it hide in plain sight until your intended recipient came
> by and snapped a shot of it.  My guess is that if the world ever gets to
> the crazy point where people feel they need to send GPG messages through
> non-electronic means, you're just as likely to get the rubber hose and
> time-out-in-the-little-box treatment for sending paper mail to someone
> with GPG'd QR codes or RFID tags as you are for sending GPG'd emails.

[...]

Why would people been treated in that way, once they decide to switch from
(free (guess why...)) electronic mail back to good old (paid) postal mail?

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users]

  Sure, but you gotta admit that you’re an extreme edge case of a group of users that are already kinda edge cases.  Most people have QR readers and just don’t realize it.  Very few people would need this kind of offline method anyhow, and those that would probably have much better spycraft than we can dream up here, stuff far beyond putting RFIDs on postcards or QR codes on traffic poles.  The size BTW is arbitrary and can be changed within reason in software, but you want fairly high resolution if you plan to print it.  300 ppi at 2K res would give you around 6 inches size printed.   A 1,000 by 1,000 file would make a nice 3x3 inch sticker or back of a postcard.  -Ryan McGinnishttp://www.bigstormpicture.comPGP Fingerprint: 5C73 8727 EE58 786A 777C 4F1D B5AA 3FA3 486E D7AD  On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 17:43, Stefan Claas  wrote:  Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:> Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital> device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can> maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained> in the linked QR below:Well, I currently have no QR-Code Software installed and I need to do thensome test with your fairly large image (2000x2000 pixels in size, 72 dpi).RegardsStefan--NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users wrote:
 
> Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital
> device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can
> maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained
> in the linked QR below:

Well, I currently have no QR-Code Software installed and I need to do then
some test with your fairly large image (2000x2000 pixels in size, 72 dpi).

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users]

Yeah, though if you wanted to be sneaky-do you could encrypt a message,
put it on a QR sticker, slap the sticker on some traffic pole as a dead
drop, and let it hide in plain sight until your intended recipient came
by and snapped a shot of it.  My guess is that if the world ever gets to
the crazy point where people feel they need to send GPG messages through
non-electronic means, you're just as likely to get the rubber hose and
time-out-in-the-little-box treatment for sending paper mail to someone
with GPG'd QR codes or RFID tags as you are for sending GPG'd emails.

Some of this stuff is just silly, of course, we're nerds not spies, but
if you're going to dial the paranoia to 11 you may as well be consistent
about it. 

On 10/6/20 10:27 AM, Juergen Christoffel wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 04:49:15PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
>
> Finally: using password protected NFC tags to carry encrypted content seems
> a bit of overkill or over engineering too. But one could read a tag without
> opening the letter that would be used to ship it, which obviously would be
> a bit harder with QR codes ...
>
>   --jc
>
> P.S. Last but not least, we could send QR codes via email! ;-0
>
> --
>   Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling 
> down
>   the highway.-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
>
> ___
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

-- 
-Ryan McGinnis
http://bigstormpicture.com
PGP Fingerprint: 5C73 8727 EE58 786A 777C 4F1D B5AA 3FA3 486E D7AD



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Ryan McGinnis via Gnupg-users]

Perhaps just use QR codes?  Easily scanned and imported by a digital
device.  Message size is limited, but probably enough.  If not, you can
maybe use multiple QR codes.  This reply, encrypted to you, is contained
in the linked QR below:

https://imgur.com/a/JoPjgGH


On 10/5/20 10:37 AM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> while I did some JAB-Code experiments with MMS, to send GnuPG messages with a 
> dumb
> phone, I came up now with a new idea. :-)
>
> For that I need five people who are willing to share with me their postal 
> address.
> You can send me your address GnuPG encrypted. I will not store your address 
> on my
> computer and will delete your email, once I received it.
>
> My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC tag 
> attached,
> containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. I like to see if the postcards 
> will
> arrive in proper condition, so that the NFC tags are still readable.
>
> What you will get from me:
>
> A postcard with Berlin photos on, an address sticker from me, containing the 
> MacPGP
> 2.6.2 icon with the little secret agent and a valid international postal 
> stamp with
> a photo from me on. If you are a stamp/postcard collector, you will agree 
> that this
> is IMHO a collectors item. :-)
>
> Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private content 
> digitally,
> without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it difficult 
> to intercept
> such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
> generation that
> local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally surveilled 
> Internet.
>
> A standard NFC tag can't store that much data, but there are different types 
> available
> and one can use also modern encryption software which gives you more 
> encrypted payload.
>
> Once I received your address (first come first serve) I will prepare the 
> postcards
> (hopefully tomorrow) and send them to you. It would be nice if participants 
> would share
> their experience, so that other GnuPG users could learn from it.
>
> Please note, NFC tags can be used multiple times, so that for example Alice 
> and Bob use
> only on NFC tag with their letters, they exchange and those NFC tags can also 
> be destroyed
> with special* hardware devices or bought in a form that they get destroyed if 
> someone tries
> to take them off, from the carrier medium.
>
> *https://nfckill.com/
>
> The consumer hardware device I purchased:
>
> https://www.nfc-tag-shop.de/en/nfc-hardware/147/acr1252u-nfc-forum-certified-reader/writer
>
> Software one can use on their Desktop:
>
> https://www.wakdev.com/en/apps/nfc-tools-pc-mac.html
>
> and for people, living in Germany, regarding postal stamps with photos:
>
> 
>
> Regards
> Stefan
>
> NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
>   The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

-- 
-Ryan McGinnis
http://bigstormpicture.com
PGP Fingerprint: 5C73 8727 EE58 786A 777C 4F1D B5AA 3FA3 486E D7AD



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Juergen Christoffel wrote:
 
> On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 04:49:15PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
> >
> >Good question. QR codes needs for example a printer and stickers too, if
> >not printed directly on postcards. My new Epson printer, for example, does
> >not support feeding of postcards or other thick materials, only standard
> >paper and photo paper.
> 
> We are moving a bit far away from GnuPG issues, but ... ;-)
> 
> a) you'll neither need stickers nor postcards, just a standard sheet of
> plain paper.

I like to promote the postcards option because the postage is cheaper than
letters if not done regularly.

> b) you can generate QR codes without using a smartphone (e.g. qrencode
> on Linux systems) but easly on smartphones without NFC hardware too.

Yes, but like I said, can be written to only once.

> >maybe we should ask ourselves why NFC tags were invented if QR-code would
> >be sufficient.
> 
> c) NFC capable smartphones still are less common than smartphones with
> cameras to scan QR codes, so if you want to expand the set of possible
> recipients and senders, you should think about the least common denominator
> instead. 

I think if people have the funds to buy a more or less expensive smartphone
they can probably invest in an additional consumer grade reader/writer (for
offline usage) too. 

> P.S. Last but not least, we could send QR codes via email! ;-0

Which my idea avoids, i.e. using super über mega cool local postal services,
to support our *hard working* local postmen, instead of globally supporting
people with root privileges etc! :-D

Remember even Russian authorities, according to reports from 2013, are using
German typewriters now, which means, at least to me, that the smart Russians
are using their postal service too, or couriers, instead of email. ;-)

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Juergen Christoffel]

On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 04:49:15PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:


Good question. QR codes needs for example a printer and stickers too, if
not printed directly on postcards. My new Epson printer, for example, does
not support feeding of postcards or other thick materials, only standard
paper and photo paper.


We are moving a bit far away from GnuPG issues, but ... ;-)

a) you'll neither need stickers nor postcards, just a standard sheet of
plain paper.

b) you can generate QR codes without using a smartphone (e.g. qrencode
on Linux systems) but easly on smartphones without NFC hardware too.


maybe we should ask ourselves why NFC tags were invented if QR-code would
be sufficient.


c) NFC capable smartphones still are less common than smartphones with
cameras to scan QR codes, so if you want to expand the set of possible
recipients and senders, you should think about the least common denominator
instead. 


d) NFC tags have their uses, but weren't invented to replace or augment QR
codes. And besides being cheaper to produce, QR codes are much more
resilient.

Finally: using password protected NFC tags to carry encrypted content seems
a bit of overkill or over engineering too. But one could read a tag without
opening the letter that would be used to ship it, which obviously would be
a bit harder with QR codes ...

--jc

P.S. Last but not least, we could send QR codes via email! ;-0

--
 Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling 
down
 the highway.   -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:
 
> Juergen Christoffel wrote:
>  
> > On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > >
> > >My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC tag 
> > >attached,
> > >containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. I like to see if the 
> > >postcards will
> > >arrive in proper condition, so that the NFC tags are still readable.
> > 
> > Looks like an over-engineered idea to me: why use NFC tags when simple QR
> > codes printed on paper would be sufficient? And probably less prone to
> > detection or damage, I expect.
> 
> Good question. QR codes needs for example a printer and stickers too, if
> not printed directly on postcards. My new Epson printer, for example, does 
> not support feeding of postcards or other thick materials, only standard
> paper and photo paper.

P.S. and NFC tags can be written multiple times to and not like QR-codes only
written one time per sticker, so probably more useful for Alice's and Bob's
letter exchanges, when using only one tag. And if one likes they can be also
password protected, prior accessing the (encrypted) content.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Juergen Christoffel wrote:
 
> On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
> >
> >My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC tag 
> >attached,
> >containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. I like to see if the postcards 
> >will
> >arrive in proper condition, so that the NFC tags are still readable.
> 
> Looks like an over-engineered idea to me: why use NFC tags when simple QR
> codes printed on paper would be sufficient? And probably less prone to
> detection or damage, I expect.

Good question. QR codes needs for example a printer and stickers too, if
not printed directly on postcards. My new Epson printer, for example, does 
not support feeding of postcards or other thick materials, only standard
paper and photo paper.

Maybe we should ask ourselves why NFC tags were invented if QR-code would
be sufficient.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Juergen Christoffel]

On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:


My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC tag attached,
containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. I like to see if the postcards will
arrive in proper condition, so that the NFC tags are still readable.


Looks like an over-engineered idea to me: why use NFC tags when simple QR
codes printed on paper would be sufficient? And probably less prone to
detection or damage, I expect.

--jc

--
 I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
-- Douglas Adams

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:
 
> Stefan Claas wrote:
> 
> > Once I received your address (first come first serve) I will prepare the 
> > postcards
> > (hopefully tomorrow) and send them to you. It would be nice if participants 
> > would share
> > their experience, so that other GnuPG users could learn from it.
> 
> Ok. closed. Thanks to all participants, I will reply here once I have been at 
> the post office.
> (Hopefully tomorrow!)

Okay. Postcards to all participants were thrown in the mailbox at the post 
office.
Now lets see when they all arrive and if all works as expected. I have also 
checked
twice, with the Desktop NFC Software, that all tags work after putting them on 
the
postcards.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:

> Once I received your address (first come first serve) I will prepare the 
> postcards
> (hopefully tomorrow) and send them to you. It would be nice if participants 
> would share
> their experience, so that other GnuPG users could learn from it.

Ok. closed. Thanks to all participants, I will reply here once I have been at 
the post office.
(Hopefully tomorrow!)

Best regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

john doe wrote:
 
> On 10/5/2020 6:17 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private 
> >>> content digitally,
> >>> without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it 
> >>> difficult to intercept
> >>> such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
> >>> generation that
> >>> local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally 
> >>> surveilled Internet.
> >>
> >> Wouldn't using NFC chips be counter to this goal? It's extremely easy to
> >> identify the presence of NFC chips, such that an agency could easily
> >> scan entire bags of mail to identify if there are any present.
> >
> > Yes, it is possible. However we have in Germany for example additional 
> > postal
> > services (PIN AG) one could use locally and I doubt (while I do not know)
> > that TLAs or LEAs currently require them to collect such data.
> >
> 
> You can't assume that this is also the case for other countries if you
> are looking for EU contributers.

I guess we need to figure it out, so that future generations can learn
from our experiences.

> I must also say that I don't understand how this is related to this list.

Well, this is debatable, but at least it shows GnuPG users, which rely on
IMHO outdated Internet PGP tutorials that there are other forms of GnuPG
communications available, besides classical email usage and it strengthens
the usage of GnuPG, compared to those smartphone crypto Messengers, or S/MIME
email usage etc.

People using GnuPG should appreciated these tips, even if they don't use them. 

Regards
Stefan

-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[john doe]

On 10/5/2020 6:17 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:

Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:


On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:


Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private content 
digitally,
without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it difficult to 
intercept
such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
generation that
local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally surveilled 
Internet.


Wouldn't using NFC chips be counter to this goal? It's extremely easy to
identify the presence of NFC chips, such that an agency could easily
scan entire bags of mail to identify if there are any present.


Yes, it is possible. However we have in Germany for example additional postal
services (PIN AG) one could use locally and I doubt (while I do not know)
that TLAs or LEAs currently require them to collect such data.



You can't assume that this is also the case for other countries if you
are looking for EU contributers.


I must also say that I don't understand how this is related to this list.

--
John Doe

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
 
> On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > 
> > Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private 
> > content digitally,
> > without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it 
> > difficult to intercept
> > such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
> > generation that
> > local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally 
> > surveilled Internet.
> 
> Wouldn't using NFC chips be counter to this goal? It's extremely easy to 
> identify the presence of NFC chips, such that an agency could easily 
> scan entire bags of mail to identify if there are any present.

Yes, it is possible. However we have in Germany for example additional postal
services (PIN AG) one could use locally and I doubt (while I do not know)
that TLAs or LEAs currently require them to collect such data. 

In case of letter usage, their are also RFID protection covers available,
so I would guess that these do not show that a letter contains an NFC
tag.

https://www.getdigital.eu/RFID-Protection-Cover.html

I also assume that for example local postal services, regardless where
they are located have no deal yet with international TLAs, LEAs to hand
over this date.

Last but not least, they could also been used as dead drops, locally.

> As an aside, this reminded me of the "nonce encryption using two HOTP"
> devices scheme that I thought up a while back:
> https://paranoidbeavers.ca/spy-stuff.html
> 
> (the title wrongly calls it "forward secrecy," so just ignore that bit)
> 
> -K

Cool, thanks for the info! :-)

Regards
Stefan


-- 
NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Re: Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Konstantin Ryabitsev via Gnupg-users]

On Mon, Oct 05, 2020 at 05:37:57PM +0200, Stefan Claas wrote:
> 
> Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private content 
> digitally,
> without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it difficult 
> to intercept
> such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
> generation that
> local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally surveilled 
> Internet.

Wouldn't using NFC chips be counter to this goal? It's extremely easy to 
identify the presence of NFC chips, such that an agency could easily 
scan entire bags of mail to identify if there are any present.

As an aside, this reminded me of the "nonce encryption using two HOTP"
devices scheme that I thought up a while back:
https://paranoidbeavers.ca/spy-stuff.html

(the title wrongly calls it "forward secrecy," so just ignore that bit)

-K

___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Five volunteers needed (EU only please)

[Stefan Claas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi all,

while I did some JAB-Code experiments with MMS, to send GnuPG messages with a 
dumb
phone, I came up now with a new idea. :-)

For that I need five people who are willing to share with me their postal 
address.
You can send me your address GnuPG encrypted. I will not store your address on 
my
computer and will delete your email, once I received it.

My new idea is to send encrypted postcards or letters, with an NFC tag attached,
containing a GnuPG clearsigned test message. I like to see if the postcards will
arrive in proper condition, so that the NFC tags are still readable.

What you will get from me:

A postcard with Berlin photos on, an address sticker from me, containing the 
MacPGP
2.6.2 icon with the little secret agent and a valid international postal stamp 
with
a photo from me on. If you are a stamp/postcard collector, you will agree that 
this
is IMHO a collectors item. :-)

Why I came up with this idea? Well I thought of a way to send private content 
digitally,
without Internet usage, so that 3rd parties outside the EU have it difficult to 
intercept
such messages, in order to protect EU businesses and to show the young 
generation that
local postal services should be supported, in favor of a globally surveilled 
Internet.

A standard NFC tag can't store that much data, but there are different types 
available
and one can use also modern encryption software which gives you more encrypted 
payload.

Once I received your address (first come first serve) I will prepare the 
postcards
(hopefully tomorrow) and send them to you. It would be nice if participants 
would share
their experience, so that other GnuPG users could learn from it.

Please note, NFC tags can be used multiple times, so that for example Alice and 
Bob use
only on NFC tag with their letters, they exchange and those NFC tags can also 
be destroyed
with special* hardware devices or bought in a form that they get destroyed if 
someone tries
to take them off, from the carrier medium.

*https://nfckill.com/

The consumer hardware device I purchased:

https://www.nfc-tag-shop.de/en/nfc-hardware/147/acr1252u-nfc-forum-certified-reader/writer

Software one can use on their Desktop:

https://www.wakdev.com/en/apps/nfc-tools-pc-mac.html

and for people, living in Germany, regarding postal stamps with photos:



Regards
Stefan

NaClbox: cc5c5f846c661343745772156a7751a5eb34d3e83d84b7d6884e507e105fd675
  The computer helps us to solve problems, we did not have without him.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iHUEARYIAB0WIQSrLUCq6cTfJ7mVKVa6FXdwLlPz5QUCX3s91gAKCRC6FXdwLlPz
5b/7AP9dAwbW5Hj4dW+eDKEK7abPjfhIonjV68Qbd3Uoi5cBywEApSjjqyUfXyXk
c5VbQTeg7dlC/QcxLufE0ZK2BpThDAA=
=yehG
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users