[LincolnTalk] Seeking Refrigerator Recommendations

[Carol Kochmann]

Hi All.  Our 2018 refrigerator has died (prematurely!) of a gas leak.  This
follows years of poor performance keeping temperatures.  So we're looking
to buy a new one.  American Appliance has recommended Whirlpool but we've
learned that the one we have, although a Kenmore brand, was actually made
by Whirlpool. In our search, the only model we've found that meets our
needs looks like the exact same item.  So, I'm wondering what brands and
models folks recommend. Requirements are: at least 21 sq.ft. side-by-side
with in-door ice and water dispensers.  Also, we're looking for a lower-end
item.  We are especially interested in stories about warranty repair
success/failure of various brand warranties.

Thanks.

Carol
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Darkness at the Center Post Office

[Andy Wang]

Welp…guess its time to form a POBC (Post Office Building Committee)….who’s
with me?

Sorry, too soon?


- Andy






On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 5:32 PM Steve Kropper  wrote:

> Three of the four banks of fluorescent lights at the Center post office
> have been 'dead' for months.
> Sua Sponte, I took some new tubes to the PO and planned to install them
> (a contribution to Lincoln Old Town Hall Corporation?)
> However, the clerk explained that that the ballasts need to be replaced
> (above my pay grade) and that the landlord has been alerted.
> So, darkness reigns for the time being.
>
> Steve Kropper
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[LincolnTalk] Old Town Hall Exchange

[Kate Dahmen]

Please post - thank you :)

After being closed for far too long..
*The Old Town Hall Exchange will be open this Saturday December  3rd
11am-2pm!!*
Everything but candy and consigned items will be 20% off.
Swing by before or after the Touch of Christmas Fair.  The shop is stocked
with lots of wonderful Christmas ornaments,
stocking stuffers, cards, and decorations as well as many of the wonderful
items the Exchange is known for.
We hope to see you!
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Re: [LincolnTalk] What's the message behind a Yes or No vote?

[Scott Clary]

I'm not nearly as well versed as many on this topic. But the
generalizations in the warrant put forth are concerning. "The exploration
of lower cost options," I am not convinced will be on equal footing with
the preferred options of proponents. There needs to be more clarity on
options. This or that, to me is not enough unless everything has been
exhausted. There is a lot at stake. I would have appreciated having more
detail up front so that a rational decision could be made without
processing so much information in a short period of time just prior to a
vote.

Kind Regards,

Scott Clary
617-968-576
Oak Knoll

Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 8:11 PM Paul Shorb  wrote:

> I would argue that some dollars certainly should be allocated towards the
> latest plan, to enable a fair comparison. I don't think "leftover" funds is
> a fair way to describe the level of effort planned to look at
> alternatives, but everyone can decide their confidence in that after
> the presentation tomorrow night..
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:35 PM Bob Mason  wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> I appreciate you relaying that information, but I'd still want greater
>> clarity on next steps. I'm uncertain if any dollars should be allocated
>> toward the current plan. And do we have confidence that whatever "leftover"
>> funds are adequate to fully realize alternative plans that meet the
>> intended schedule of future town votes?
>>
>> bob
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:12 PM Paul Shorb  wrote:
>>
>>> From the presentation made to the Select Board last night, I understand
>>> that tomorrow night we will hear that the motion to fund study of "a
>>> range of choices" is intended to include some choices much less expensive
>>> than the $25M option, and it is NOT the plan that most of the $325K
>>> budget would go toward finalizing specifications for the two current designs
>>> .
>>>
>>> - Paul Shorb
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 5:29 PM Bob Mason  wrote:
>>>
 Given the generality of the motion to be voted, I need to better
 understand the process the CCBC will follow if a sufficient number of Yes
 votes are counted. Otherwise I am inclined to vote No.

 (For reference, the motion is available at
 https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final)

 For the sake of argument let's assume there is a bell curve of citizen
 interest in a community center project. 25% of the town wants no new
 building, no matter the budget; 25% is in favor of the current proposal,
 even if it costs $25M+; and another 50% evenly split between those both
 positively or negatively inclined to a project of some form.

 A collective Yes has the potential of being ambiguous on the will of
 the town. Similarly, a "decisive" No does not necessarily imply that the
 town is not in favor of any community center, just not the current
 proposal.

 Given this potential ambiguity, what is the CCBC to do?

 I for one am generally inclined for the town to invest in a "community
 center," but definitely not interested in spending $25M+ to achieve such a
 goal. I surmise many others feel a similar inclination. As such I am
 worried that most if not all of the $325K budget will go toward finalizing
 the specification of the current design and an inadequate amount of
 time/resources will be applied toward revisiting assumptions and presenting
 fresh concepts.

 If this concern is not addressed with confidence I will have to vote
 No, but hope the CCBC takes that message solely as a statement that the
 current plan is untenable and they should come back for the Spring 2023
 Town Meeting to request budget backed by a clearer plan to move forward.

 Best regards,
 bob

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Re: [LincolnTalk] What's the message behind a Yes or No vote?

[Paul Shorb]

I would argue that some dollars certainly should be allocated towards the
latest plan, to enable a fair comparison. I don't think "leftover" funds is
a fair way to describe the level of effort planned to look at
alternatives, but everyone can decide their confidence in that after
the presentation tomorrow night..

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:35 PM Bob Mason  wrote:

> Paul,
>
> I appreciate you relaying that information, but I'd still want greater
> clarity on next steps. I'm uncertain if any dollars should be allocated
> toward the current plan. And do we have confidence that whatever "leftover"
> funds are adequate to fully realize alternative plans that meet the
> intended schedule of future town votes?
>
> bob
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:12 PM Paul Shorb  wrote:
>
>> From the presentation made to the Select Board last night, I understand
>> that tomorrow night we will hear that the motion to fund study of "a
>> range of choices" is intended to include some choices much less expensive
>> than the $25M option, and it is NOT the plan that most of the $325K
>> budget would go toward finalizing specifications for the two current designs
>> .
>>
>> - Paul Shorb
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 5:29 PM Bob Mason  wrote:
>>
>>> Given the generality of the motion to be voted, I need to better
>>> understand the process the CCBC will follow if a sufficient number of Yes
>>> votes are counted. Otherwise I am inclined to vote No.
>>>
>>> (For reference, the motion is available at
>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final)
>>>
>>> For the sake of argument let's assume there is a bell curve of citizen
>>> interest in a community center project. 25% of the town wants no new
>>> building, no matter the budget; 25% is in favor of the current proposal,
>>> even if it costs $25M+; and another 50% evenly split between those both
>>> positively or negatively inclined to a project of some form.
>>>
>>> A collective Yes has the potential of being ambiguous on the will of the
>>> town. Similarly, a "decisive" No does not necessarily imply that the town
>>> is not in favor of any community center, just not the current proposal.
>>>
>>> Given this potential ambiguity, what is the CCBC to do?
>>>
>>> I for one am generally inclined for the town to invest in a "community
>>> center," but definitely not interested in spending $25M+ to achieve such a
>>> goal. I surmise many others feel a similar inclination. As such I am
>>> worried that most if not all of the $325K budget will go toward finalizing
>>> the specification of the current design and an inadequate amount of
>>> time/resources will be applied toward revisiting assumptions and presenting
>>> fresh concepts.
>>>
>>> If this concern is not addressed with confidence I will have to vote No,
>>> but hope the CCBC takes that message solely as a statement that the current
>>> plan is untenable and they should come back for the Spring 2023 Town
>>> Meeting to request budget backed by a clearer plan to move forward.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> bob
>>>
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>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] CC - Specificity in the motion

[Dennis Picker]

Specifically addressing Alex Nichols proposal on how the motion might be
amended by including some sort of target price language:

I feel that the motion as written needs clarification in its wording to
avoid have issues of ambiguity and lack of clear commitments to what
outputs the study would be required to produce.

I do not think that trying to address this, in full or in part, by amending
the motion to include price targets is the way to go.  Until the nitty
gritty work of defining and exploring a no-frills option is done, we don't
know what cost we might attain for a given new approach.

We should not set a target that might set a limit on how hard we work to
get the cost down.

During the school building project process, early on I tried,
unsuccessfully to lobby for a non-mandatory guideline such as:" the School
Building Committee should do its best to give us a proposal that does not
exceed X."  The idea was soundly rejected, with the reasoning "if we did
that we won't get to see all that we might be able to get.  Let's leave it
open, see what  comes out and then decide if we want to spend that."

OK, well and good.  In this case, if we set any target we are closing the
door to seeing how LOW we can go in cost.

Changing the target to "significantly less" doesn't resolve this for me.  I
can objectify something like "no frills, only the essentials" (if we do a
good job of identifying wants vs needs).  I cannot objectify "significantly
less."  None of us is in a position to speak for anyone else about what
level of cost is/is not significant to their personal situation.

I am opposed to trying to resolve this via price target mechanisms.

Dennis Picker

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 7:01 PM Alex Nichols via Lincoln <
lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:

> Chiming in with some thoughts here.
>
> First, thanks to everyone for all of their work to date as well as for the
> spirited yet respectful discussion.
>
> Given the large numbers floated around so far and the resulting
> perceptions around the project, I agree that the motion should explicitly
> require exploring at least one lower budget, so-called "no-frills" option.
>
> One straightforward way to do this could be to set a reasonable soft
> budget target for one design and see where it lands. I'm not a lawyer, nor
> do I play one on TV, but here is one idea (in bold):
>
> *That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s
> Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support
> services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering
> and other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building
> Committee in developing a range of Community Center design choices and
> budgets for the Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said
> choices at a fall, 2023 Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred
> option; and provided further, that it is anticipated that the preferred
> option selected by the Town will be presented for a funding vote in March
> of 2024. The consultants retained to provide the above services shall be
> instructed to investigate at least one design based around a target budget
> of [$15M].*
>
> Whatever the number is, whether it's $15M or $18M, a range, or even
> language giving a mandate to "...explore an option materially less
> expensive than those currently proposed," this would make it clear that the
> town is serious about exploring a lower cost option. It shows an effort to
> design to a budget, rather than budgeting to a design. In any case, if a
> design based on a lower budget really isn't an option, we'll all be
> guaranteed the chance see that first-hand and decide for ourselves.
>
> Alex
> --- Original Message ---
> On Tuesday, November 29th, 2022 at 5:01 PM, Andy Wang 
> wrote:
>
> Karla,
>
> This is the text of the Motion (
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final):
>
> *Motion Under Article 1:*
> *That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s
> Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support
> services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering
> and other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building
> Committee in developing a range of Community Center design choices and
> budgets for the Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said
> choices at a fall, 2023 Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred
> option; and provided further, that it is anticipated that the preferred
> option selected by the Town will be presented for a funding vote in March
> of 2024. *
>
> That's it, that's the whole thing. There is nothing in there that actually
> dictates 2 proposals, or the cost of any of the proposals, or the level of
> 'frills' or 'features' that are included / excluded either. They can
> develop a 'range of design choices and budgets'. I'm not sure how one would
> define a 'low-cost alternative' in the context of the 

Re: [LincolnTalk] CC - Specificity in the motion

[Bob Mason]

Why should the options be limited in any manner simply to the Hartwell
Complex? That predisposes a course of action that may no longer be the most
cost effective OR effective for the town.

Personally, I'm much more interested in the concept of a more limited
community center building within the heart of Lincoln Station. I don't
believe the same design choices need to be made that made the previous
proposal unteneable. Perhaps that implies a retrofit of some pods for Parks
and Rec and COA at Lincoln Station and/or other locations.

bob

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 7:08 PM Sara Mattes  wrote:

> All,
> After listening to the entire discussion/debate last PM, I see what might
> be seen as an issue in the motion.
>
> In last night’s debate, at the end of the meeting, as the Selects were
> voting on actual language for the motion, the question was- is the
> designation of “Hartwell” to be left OUT of the motion, as voted on by the
> CCBC, or do we insert “Hartwell” into the motion.
> The Selects elected to do the later.
> I believe the  rational was that if it were left out, it would be seen as
> “bait and switch."
> However, the current language will need some clarification
>
> Without clarifying wording *in the motion *(not simply spoken to, on the
> floor) some might interpret the language of the motion to mean *ALL* 
> programming
> must occur at the Hartwell campus, thus restricting creative, less
> expensive alternatives.
>
> There is a possibility to deliver some programming *OFF* the Hartwell
> campus, as we do now, and still have the core of a CC remain at Hartwell.
> This could well lead to a less costly design.
>
> And, perhaps the motion needs to be amended  to require a “ no frills”
> option.
>
> If such clarification and an amendment does not occur, we might have an
> issue.
>
> We need to listen and hope that we find a clear path to “yes.”
>
> Sara
>
>
> --
> Sara Mattes
>
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Andy Wang  wrote:
>
> Karla,
>
> This is the text of the Motion (
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final):
>
> *Motion Under Article 1:*
> *That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s
> Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support
> services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering
> and other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building
> Committee in developing a range of Community Center design choices and
> budgets for the Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said
> choices at a fall, 2023 Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred
> option; and provided further, that it is anticipated that the preferred
> option selected by the Town will be presented for a funding vote in March
> of 2024.  *
>
> That's it, that's the whole thing. There is nothing in there that actually
> dictates 2 proposals, or the cost of any of the proposals, or the level of
> 'frills' or 'features' that are included / excluded either.  They can
> develop a 'range of design choices and budgets'.  I'm not sure how one
> would define a 'low-cost alternative' in the context of the motion, though
> maybe someone smarter than I could.  None of the things you are suggesting
> are precluded from being done in the motion, though the CCBC is not
> obligated to either, except for the fact that they have to come back in
> another meeting next year and again a year after that to actually get the
> funds bonded.  In my opinion, that is the real motivation to internalize
> the feedback.
>
> - Andy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:31 PM Karla Gravis 
> wrote:
>
>> I 100% agree with what others have said in that we need specificity in
>> the motion.
>>
>> The motion needs to clearly lay out that *at least* one of the desired
>> outcomes is the no-frills option (without the features that are currently
>> part of the $25M proposal that were mentioned yesterday by the CCBC like a
>> teaching kitchen or an indoor/outdoor cafe, etc).
>>
>> I fear that if that if this is not explicit in the motion, we will get
>> one $25M option and maybe a $20M option and then be presented with a false
>> choice under pressure from “we need to get this done before inflation hits
>> us again”.
>>
>> I think what you said Dennis is critical and on point and should be
>> included in the motion: the low-cost alternative NEEDS to be developed to 
>> “*the
>> level where it can be considered on an equal footing with the two existing
>> proposals when it comes time for the town to vote and chose a preferred
>> approach.”*
>>
>> I also want to call out that options outside of Hartwell should be given
>> a chance. The 8-year old SOTT exercise where 150 folks where given 2 dots
>> each to choose should not be used as the “will of the town”.
>>
>> Thanks all for listening to me!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:05 PM Dennis Picker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Andy (and all the rest of you!),
>>> I feel we might be getting close. (what a 

Re: [LincolnTalk] CC - Specificity in the motion

[Sara Mattes]

All,
After listening to the entire discussion/debate last PM, I see what might be 
seen as an issue in the motion.

In last night’s debate, at the end of the meeting, as the Selects were voting 
on actual language for the motion, the question was- is the designation of 
“Hartwell” to be left OUT of the motion, as voted on by the CCBC, or do we 
insert “Hartwell” into the motion.
The Selects elected to do the later.
I believe the  rational was that if it were left out, it would be seen as “bait 
and switch."
However, the current language will need some clarification

Without clarifying wording in the motion (not simply spoken to, on the floor) 
some might interpret the language of the motion to mean ALL programming must 
occur at the Hartwell campus, thus restricting creative, less expensive 
alternatives.

There is a possibility to deliver some programming OFF the Hartwell campus, as 
we do now, and still have the core of a CC remain at Hartwell.
This could well lead to a less costly design.

And, perhaps the motion needs to be amended  to require a “ no frills” option.

If such clarification and an amendment does not occur, we might have an issue.

We need to listen and hope that we find a clear path to “yes.”

Sara


--
Sara Mattes

> On Nov 29, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Andy Wang  wrote:
> 
> Karla,
> 
> This is the text of the Motion 
> (https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final):
> 
> Motion Under Article 1:
> That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s 
> Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support 
> services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering and 
> other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building Committee in 
> developing a range of Community Center design choices and budgets for the 
> Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said choices at a fall, 
> 2023 Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred option; and provided 
> further, that it is anticipated that the preferred option selected by the 
> Town will be presented for a funding vote in March of 2024.  
> 
> That's it, that's the whole thing. There is nothing in there that actually 
> dictates 2 proposals, or the cost of any of the proposals, or the level of 
> 'frills' or 'features' that are included / excluded either.  They can develop 
> a 'range of design choices and budgets'.  I'm not sure how one would define a 
> 'low-cost alternative' in the context of the motion, though maybe someone 
> smarter than I could.  None of the things you are suggesting are precluded 
> from being done in the motion, though the CCBC is not obligated to either, 
> except for the fact that they have to come back in another meeting next year 
> and again a year after that to actually get the funds bonded.  In my opinion, 
> that is the real motivation to internalize the feedback.
> 
> - Andy
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:31 PM Karla Gravis  > wrote:
>> I 100% agree with what others have said in that we need specificity in the 
>> motion.
>> 
>> The motion needs to clearly lay out that at least one of the desired 
>> outcomes is the no-frills option (without the features that are currently 
>> part of the $25M proposal that were mentioned yesterday by the CCBC like a 
>> teaching kitchen or an indoor/outdoor cafe, etc).
>> 
>> I fear that if that if this is not explicit in the motion, we will get one 
>> $25M option and maybe a $20M option and then be presented with a false 
>> choice under pressure from “we need to get this done before inflation hits 
>> us again”.
>> 
>> I think what you said Dennis is critical and on point and should be included 
>> in the motion: the low-cost alternative NEEDS to be developed to “the level 
>> where it can be considered on an equal footing with the two existing 
>> proposals when it comes time for the town to vote and chose a preferred 
>> approach.”
>> 
>> I also want to call out that options outside of Hartwell should be given a 
>> chance. The 8-year old SOTT exercise where 150 folks where given 2 dots each 
>> to choose should not be used as the “will of the town”.
>> 
>> Thanks all for listening to me!
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:05 PM Dennis Picker > > wrote:
>>> Andy (and all the rest of you!),
>>> I feel we might be getting close. (what a relief it is to be able to write 
>>> that)
>>> 
>>> Given what I now know, having attended last night's select meeting, I agree 
>>> that we need to spend study money in order to get another option, what I 
>>> call the no-frills approach, on the table.  That money will flesh out a 
>>> newly conceived option that is no-frills, addresses the essential needs, is 
>>> Hartwell-centric, focused on new construction/renovation at Hartwell, and 
>>> flexibly addresses the location of some services at other locations when 
>>> that makes sense.  The study would allow 

Re: [LincolnTalk] CC - Specificity in the motion

[Alex Nichols via Lincoln]

Chiming in with some thoughts here.

First, thanks to everyone for all of their work to date as well as for the 
spirited yet respectful discussion.

Given the large numbers floated around so far and the resulting perceptions 
around the project, I agree that the motion should explicitly require exploring 
at least one lower budget, so-called "no-frills" option.

One straightforward way to do this could be to set a reasonable soft budget 
target for one design and see where it lands. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play 
one on TV, but here is one idea (in bold):

That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s 
Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support 
services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering and 
other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building Committee in 
developing a range of Community Center design choices and budgets for the 
Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said choices at a fall, 2023 
Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred option; and provided further, 
that it is anticipated that the preferred option selected by the Town will be 
presented for a funding vote in March of 2024. The consultants retained to 
provide the above services shall be instructed to investigate at least one 
design based around a target budget of [$15M].

Whatever the number is, whether it's $15M or $18M, a range, or even language 
giving a mandate to "...explore an option materially less expensive than those 
currently proposed," this would make it clear that the town is serious about 
exploring a lower cost option. It shows an effort to design to a budget, rather 
than budgeting to a design. In any case, if a design based on a lower budget 
really isn't an option, we'll all be guaranteed the chance see that first-hand 
and decide for ourselves.

Alex
--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, November 29th, 2022 at 5:01 PM, Andy Wang  
wrote:

> Karla,
>
> This is the text of the Motion 
> (https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final):
>
> Motion Under Article 1:
> That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s 
> Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support 
> services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering and 
> other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building Committee in 
> developing a range of Community Center design choices and budgets for the 
> Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said choices at a fall, 
> 2023 Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred option; and provided 
> further, that it is anticipated that the preferred option selected by the 
> Town will be presented for a funding vote in March of 2024.
>
> That's it, that's the whole thing. There is nothing in there that actually 
> dictates 2 proposals, or the cost of any of the proposals, or the level of 
> 'frills' or 'features' that are included / excluded either. They can develop 
> a 'range of design choices and budgets'. I'm not sure how one would define a 
> 'low-cost alternative' in the context of the motion, though maybe someone 
> smarter than I could. None of the things you are suggesting are precluded 
> from being done in the motion, though the CCBC is not obligated to either, 
> except for the fact that they have to come back in another meeting next year 
> and again a year after that to actually get the funds bonded. In my opinion, 
> that is the real motivation to internalize the feedback.
>
> - Andy
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:31 PM Karla Gravis  wrote:
>
>> I 100% agree with what others have said in that we need specificity in the 
>> motion.
>>
>> The motion needs to clearly lay out that at least one of the desired 
>> outcomes is the no-frills option (without the features that are currently 
>> part of the $25M proposal that were mentioned yesterday by the CCBC like a 
>> teaching kitchen or an indoor/outdoor cafe, etc).
>>
>> I fear that if that if this is not explicit in the motion, we will get one 
>> $25M option and maybe a $20M option and then be presented with a false 
>> choice under pressure from “we need to get this done before inflation hits 
>> us again”.
>>
>> I think what you said Dennis is critical and on point and should be included 
>> in the motion: the low-cost alternative NEEDS to be developed to “the level 
>> where it can be considered on an equal footing with the two existing 
>> proposals when it comes time for the town to vote and chose a preferred 
>> approach.”
>>
>> I also want to call out that options outside of Hartwell should be given a 
>> chance. The 8-year old SOTT exercise where 150 folks where given 2 dots each 
>> to choose should not be used as the “will of the town”.
>>
>> Thanks all for listening to me!
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:05 PM Dennis Picker  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Andy (and all the rest of you!),
>>> I feel we might be getting close. 

Re: [LincolnTalk] What's the message behind a Yes or No vote?

[Bob Mason]

Paul,

I appreciate you relaying that information, but I'd still want greater
clarity on next steps. I'm uncertain if any dollars should be allocated
toward the current plan. And do we have confidence that whatever "leftover"
funds are adequate to fully realize alternative plans that meet the
intended schedule of future town votes?

bob

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:12 PM Paul Shorb  wrote:

> From the presentation made to the Select Board last night, I understand
> that tomorrow night we will hear that the motion to fund study of "a
> range of choices" is intended to include some choices much less expensive
> than the $25M option, and it is NOT the plan that most of the $325K
> budget would go toward finalizing specifications for the two current designs
> .
>
> - Paul Shorb
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 5:29 PM Bob Mason  wrote:
>
>> Given the generality of the motion to be voted, I need to better
>> understand the process the CCBC will follow if a sufficient number of Yes
>> votes are counted. Otherwise I am inclined to vote No.
>>
>> (For reference, the motion is available at
>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final)
>>
>> For the sake of argument let's assume there is a bell curve of citizen
>> interest in a community center project. 25% of the town wants no new
>> building, no matter the budget; 25% is in favor of the current proposal,
>> even if it costs $25M+; and another 50% evenly split between those both
>> positively or negatively inclined to a project of some form.
>>
>> A collective Yes has the potential of being ambiguous on the will of the
>> town. Similarly, a "decisive" No does not necessarily imply that the town
>> is not in favor of any community center, just not the current proposal.
>>
>> Given this potential ambiguity, what is the CCBC to do?
>>
>> I for one am generally inclined for the town to invest in a "community
>> center," but definitely not interested in spending $25M+ to achieve such a
>> goal. I surmise many others feel a similar inclination. As such I am
>> worried that most if not all of the $325K budget will go toward finalizing
>> the specification of the current design and an inadequate amount of
>> time/resources will be applied toward revisiting assumptions and presenting
>> fresh concepts.
>>
>> If this concern is not addressed with confidence I will have to vote No,
>> but hope the CCBC takes that message solely as a statement that the current
>> plan is untenable and they should come back for the Spring 2023 Town
>> Meeting to request budget backed by a clearer plan to move forward.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> bob
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
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[LincolnTalk] TAKEN - Re: free turquoise nesting tables and funky flower table

[Leah Bloom]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:07 PM Leah Bloom  wrote:

>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] free turquoise nesting tables and funky flower table

[kathryn hawkins]

Leah if you still have this I would love to take it off your hands!

Katie
>From leap
978-505-8751

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:08 PM Leah Bloom  wrote:

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Re: [LincolnTalk] What's the message behind a Yes or No vote?

[Paul Shorb]

>From the presentation made to the Select Board last night, I understand
that tomorrow night we will hear that the motion to fund study of "a
range of choices" is intended to include some choices much less expensive
than the $25M option, and it is NOT the plan that most of the $325K budget
would go toward finalizing specifications for the two current designs.

- Paul Shorb

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 5:29 PM Bob Mason  wrote:

> Given the generality of the motion to be voted, I need to better
> understand the process the CCBC will follow if a sufficient number of Yes
> votes are counted. Otherwise I am inclined to vote No.
>
> (For reference, the motion is available at
> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final)
>
> For the sake of argument let's assume there is a bell curve of citizen
> interest in a community center project. 25% of the town wants no new
> building, no matter the budget; 25% is in favor of the current proposal,
> even if it costs $25M+; and another 50% evenly split between those both
> positively or negatively inclined to a project of some form.
>
> A collective Yes has the potential of being ambiguous on the will of the
> town. Similarly, a "decisive" No does not necessarily imply that the town
> is not in favor of any community center, just not the current proposal.
>
> Given this potential ambiguity, what is the CCBC to do?
>
> I for one am generally inclined for the town to invest in a "community
> center," but definitely not interested in spending $25M+ to achieve such a
> goal. I surmise many others feel a similar inclination. As such I am
> worried that most if not all of the $325K budget will go toward finalizing
> the specification of the current design and an inadequate amount of
> time/resources will be applied toward revisiting assumptions and presenting
> fresh concepts.
>
> If this concern is not addressed with confidence I will have to vote No,
> but hope the CCBC takes that message solely as a statement that the current
> plan is untenable and they should come back for the Spring 2023 Town
> Meeting to request budget backed by a clearer plan to move forward.
>
> Best regards,
> bob
>
> --
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> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
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> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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[LincolnTalk] Darkness at the Center Post Office

[Steve Kropper]

Three of the four banks of fluorescent lights at the Center post office 
have been 'dead' for months.
Sua Sponte, I took some new tubes to the PO and planned to install them 
(a contribution to Lincoln Old Town Hall Corporation?)
However, the clerk explained that that the ballasts need to be replaced 
(above my pay grade) and that the landlord has been alerted.

So, darkness reigns for the time being.

Steve Kropper
begin:vcard
fn:Steve Kropper
n:Kropper;Steve
email;internet:krop...@skunkworksfund.com
tel;cell:6173069312
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
version:2.1
end:vcard

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[LincolnTalk] What's the message behind a Yes or No vote?

[Bob Mason]

Given the generality of the motion to be voted, I need to better understand
the process the CCBC will follow if a sufficient number of Yes votes are
counted. Otherwise I am inclined to vote No.

(For reference, the motion is available at
https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final)

For the sake of argument let's assume there is a bell curve of citizen
interest in a community center project. 25% of the town wants no new
building, no matter the budget; 25% is in favor of the current proposal,
even if it costs $25M+; and another 50% evenly split between those both
positively or negatively inclined to a project of some form.

A collective Yes has the potential of being ambiguous on the will of the
town. Similarly, a "decisive" No does not necessarily imply that the town
is not in favor of any community center, just not the current proposal.

Given this potential ambiguity, what is the CCBC to do?

I for one am generally inclined for the town to invest in a "community
center," but definitely not interested in spending $25M+ to achieve such a
goal. I surmise many others feel a similar inclination. As such I am
worried that most if not all of the $325K budget will go toward finalizing
the specification of the current design and an inadequate amount of
time/resources will be applied toward revisiting assumptions and presenting
fresh concepts.

If this concern is not addressed with confidence I will have to vote No,
but hope the CCBC takes that message solely as a statement that the current
plan is untenable and they should come back for the Spring 2023 Town
Meeting to request budget backed by a clearer plan to move forward.

Best regards,
bob
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Re: [LincolnTalk] CC - Specificity in the motion

[Andy Wang]

Karla,

This is the text of the Motion (
https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/78665/Motion---Final):

*Motion Under Article 1:*
*That the Town vote to transfer the sum of $325,000 from the Town’s
Stabilization Fund for the purpose of hiring relevant consultant support
services, to potentially include project management, design, engineering
and other technical reviews to assist the Community Center Building
Committee in developing a range of Community Center design choices and
budgets for the Hartwell Complex, with the intention of presenting said
choices at a fall, 2023 Special Town Meeting for a vote on a preferred
option; and provided further, that it is anticipated that the preferred
option selected by the Town will be presented for a funding vote in March
of 2024.  *

That's it, that's the whole thing. There is nothing in there that actually
dictates 2 proposals, or the cost of any of the proposals, or the level of
'frills' or 'features' that are included / excluded either.  They can
develop a 'range of design choices and budgets'.  I'm not sure how one
would define a 'low-cost alternative' in the context of the motion, though
maybe someone smarter than I could.  None of the things you are suggesting
are precluded from being done in the motion, though the CCBC is not
obligated to either, except for the fact that they have to come back in
another meeting next year and again a year after that to actually get the
funds bonded.  In my opinion, that is the real motivation to internalize
the feedback.

- Andy



On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:31 PM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> I 100% agree with what others have said in that we need specificity in the
> motion.
>
> The motion needs to clearly lay out that *at least* one of the desired
> outcomes is the no-frills option (without the features that are currently
> part of the $25M proposal that were mentioned yesterday by the CCBC like a
> teaching kitchen or an indoor/outdoor cafe, etc).
>
> I fear that if that if this is not explicit in the motion, we will get one
> $25M option and maybe a $20M option and then be presented with a false
> choice under pressure from “we need to get this done before inflation hits
> us again”.
>
> I think what you said Dennis is critical and on point and should be
> included in the motion: the low-cost alternative NEEDS to be developed to 
> “*the
> level where it can be considered on an equal footing with the two existing
> proposals when it comes time for the town to vote and chose a preferred
> approach.”*
>
> I also want to call out that options outside of Hartwell should be given a
> chance. The 8-year old SOTT exercise where 150 folks where given 2 dots
> each to choose should not be used as the “will of the town”.
>
> Thanks all for listening to me!
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 2:05 PM Dennis Picker 
> wrote:
>
>> Andy (and all the rest of you!),
>> I feel we might be getting close. (what a relief it is to be able to
>> write that)
>>
>> Given what I now know, having attended last night's select meeting, I
>> agree that we need to spend study money in order to get another option,
>> what I call the no-frills approach, on the table.  That money will flesh
>> out a newly conceived option that is no-frills, addresses the essential
>> needs, is Hartwell-centric, focused on new construction/renovation at
>> Hartwell, and flexibly addresses the location of some services at
>> other locations when that makes sense.  The study would allow this new
>> alternative to be developed to the level where it can be considered on an
>> equal footing with the two existing proposals when it comes time for the
>> town to vote and chose a preferred approach.
>>
>> I sincerely believe that such a no-frills version would still be worthy
>> of the label "integrated community center."
>>
>> In that sense I would like to vote yes as a path forward.  But I am not
>> there yet.  The devil is in the details of the wording of the warrant
>> article and what gets presented by the CCBC tomorrow regarding how they
>> intend to proceed if the $325,000 funding is approved.  The clarity and
>> specifics about what the warrant explicitly requires as output of the study
>> is of vital concern to me.
>>
>> I am aware that it may take an amendment from the floor to constructively
>> sort this out.  I am waiting to see what plays out tomorrow. I hope that
>> the collective "we" can sort enough of this out through this type of dialog
>> to avoid chaos and confusion tomorrow night if it comes to amendments.
>> Fingers crossed.
>>
>> Dennis Picker
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andy Wang  wrote:
>>
>>> Dennis,
>>>
>>> I agree that you are not distorting the sentiment of the statement I
>>> posted before.
>>>
>>> However, I think you're probably more correct to question this
>>> statement:  "However, if you are in favor of a combined community center on
>>> the Hartwell campus, but are concerned about the cost, then I would
>>> encourage people to 

[LincolnTalk] SK: Seeking 4-6 milk crates for a school project

[Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln]

Hi Folks,
I am seeking 4-6 milk crates for a school project.
I will pick up at your convenience.
Thanks.
Joanna617-645-9059 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center- clarifying what the vote means

[Dennis Picker]

Andy (and all the rest of you!),
I feel we might be getting close. (what a relief it is to be able to write
that)

Given what I now know, having attended last night's select meeting, I agree
that we need to spend study money in order to get another option, what I
call the no-frills approach, on the table.  That money will flesh out a
newly conceived option that is no-frills, addresses the essential needs, is
Hartwell-centric, focused on new construction/renovation at Hartwell, and
flexibly addresses the location of some services at other locations when
that makes sense.  The study would allow this new alternative to be
developed to the level where it can be considered on an equal footing with
the two existing proposals when it comes time for the town to vote and
chose a preferred approach.

I sincerely believe that such a no-frills version would still be worthy of
the label "integrated community center."

In that sense I would like to vote yes as a path forward.  But I am not
there yet.  The devil is in the details of the wording of the warrant
article and what gets presented by the CCBC tomorrow regarding how they
intend to proceed if the $325,000 funding is approved.  The clarity and
specifics about what the warrant explicitly requires as output of the study
is of vital concern to me.

I am aware that it may take an amendment from the floor to constructively
sort this out.  I am waiting to see what plays out tomorrow. I hope that
the collective "we" can sort enough of this out through this type of dialog
to avoid chaos and confusion tomorrow night if it comes to amendments.
Fingers crossed.

Dennis Picker

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andy Wang  wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> I agree that you are not distorting the sentiment of the statement I
> posted before.
>
> However, I think you're probably more correct to question this statement:
> "However, if you are in favor of a combined community center on the
> Hartwell campus, but are concerned about the cost, then I would encourage
> people to support the vote with a YES on Wednesday because this is the only
> way that the project can move forward and further define what the costs
> will be (and potential cost savings...and to be fair, possible cost
> increases) and overall impact.  And whatever comes out, the town will be
> back to vote on THAT plan with, hopefully, more information."
>
> I will correct myself in saying that I should have said 'but are concerned
> about cost *and/or scope*' and not just the cost.  I still believe, that
> without the funding, some of that reduction in scope can't happen without
> professional services to back them up. Some outreach could be done, but the
> real impact to the building and spaces can't really be determined without
> services.
>
> I've personally gone back and forth about supporting an amendment to put
> more explicit language in the warrant, but given the way it is written, it
> does not seem to fit in.  The language is intentionally broad to give the
> committee some latitude in this next phase.  I believe this puts more trust
> in the CCBC to look into some of the things you are suggesting in looking
> for some things that might be elsewhere, but given that I'm not going to do
> that work, I'll have to rely on the output of others.  I always come back
> to the belief that the committee would like to build a community center,
> and they are going to come to terms with the fact that they are going to
> have to put forward a plan they think will pass a 2/3 vote to bond.  This
> vote should not be the hard vote, the next ones (pick proposal & bond) are.
>
> - Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:01 PM Dennis Picker 
> wrote:
>
>> I want to call attention to this outside of the torrent of posts on the
>> main Community Center thread.
>>
>> Andy Wang said, in part (I don't think that my excerpting distorts his
>> meaning):
>>
>> "Now, if you (the royal you, not you specifically, Adam) don't think that
>> there should be a combined community center at Hartwell at all, and I know
>> there are several of folks who don't, then you should vote NO, since I
>> don't think the committee intends to go way back 10+ years to re-hash all
>> those decisions."
>>
>> There is a crucial nuance here.   Let's try to not get tangled up in
>> misunderstandings and confusion about what each of us thinks a "combined
>> community center" means when we vote.
>>
>> I support pursuing new construction to meet rec and coa needs at Hartwell
>> with the explicit caveat that this study, if approved, produces a new
>> option (to consider when it comes time to vote on a preferred choice) that
>> is no frills, focused on the essentials and that takes advantage of any
>> favorable opportunities to provide _some_ of the services at other sites in
>> town.  Even if some of the services are not at the Hartwell site, it would
>> still be a "combined community center."
>>
>> From the discussion at the Select Board meeting last night, I believe
>> 

[LincolnTalk] Follow my bone marrow donation journey

[Maria Miara]

Dear Friends and Neighbors,

Tomorrow I’ll be part of something amazing - I will be donating
hematopoietic stem cells (aka bone marrow cells). These kinds of donations
happen all the time to treat leukemia and other hematological diseases like
sickle cell disease. Patients who need a bone marrow transplant rely on
generous donors, often strangers, to survive.

Follow me on social media to join me on this journey to learn about stem
cell donation and Shwachman Diamond Syndrome, the disease my cells will be
used to treat!

Like, follow and share…

Twitter: @mariamiara  

Instagram: @profmiara 

If social media isn’t your thing, just reply to this email and I will
include you on email updates that I will be sending along.

Why am I doing this?

A member of my family has Shwachman Diamond Syndrome (SDS), a
life-threatening bone marrow failure disease. I happen to carry a gene for
SDS although I am not affected. My stem cells will be used to test a new
gene therapy that they hope to use to treat SDS. This would be a game
changer for those that suffer from this disease and would open the door to
the development of gene therapies for similar diseases. This work is being
done at Boston Children’s Hospital through the Shwachman Diamond Syndrome
Registry.  


If you are interested in learning more about bone marrow donation visit
https://bethematch.org/


Please consider following me and sharing so more people can learn about
bone marrow donation and SDS.

Thank you!

Maria Miara
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center- clarifying what the vote means

[Sara Mattes]

Andy,
I urge you to read the motion that was voted last PM.
There was much back and forth.

It is a bit tighter than the warrant we all have read.
Perhaps the motion needs an amendment to allow even more flexibility?
Sara


--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:30 PM, Andy Wang  wrote:
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> I agree that you are not distorting the sentiment of the statement I posted 
> before.  
> 
> However, I think you're probably more correct to question this statement:  
> "However, if you are in favor of a combined community center on the Hartwell 
> campus, but are concerned about the cost, then I would encourage people to 
> support the vote with a YES on Wednesday because this is the only way that 
> the project can move forward and further define what the costs will be (and 
> potential cost savings...and to be fair, possible cost increases) and overall 
> impact.  And whatever comes out, the town will be back to vote on THAT plan 
> with, hopefully, more information."
> 
> I will correct myself in saying that I should have said 'but are concerned 
> about cost and/or scope' and not just the cost.  I still believe, that 
> without the funding, some of that reduction in scope can't happen without 
> professional services to back them up. Some outreach could be done, but the 
> real impact to the building and spaces can't really be determined without 
> services. 
> 
> I've personally gone back and forth about supporting an amendment to put more 
> explicit language in the warrant, but given the way it is written, it does 
> not seem to fit in.  The language is intentionally broad to give the 
> committee some latitude in this next phase.  I believe this puts more trust 
> in the CCBC to look into some of the things you are suggesting in looking for 
> some things that might be elsewhere, but given that I'm not going to do that 
> work, I'll have to rely on the output of others.  I always come back to the 
> belief that the committee would like to build a community center, and they 
> are going to come to terms with the fact that they are going to have to put 
> forward a plan they think will pass a 2/3 vote to bond.  This vote should not 
> be the hard vote, the next ones (pick proposal & bond) are.
> 
> - Andy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:01 PM Dennis Picker  > wrote:
>> I want to call attention to this outside of the torrent of posts on the main 
>> Community Center thread.
>> 
>> Andy Wang said, in part (I don't think that my excerpting distorts his 
>> meaning):
>> 
>> "Now, if you (the royal you, not you specifically, Adam) don't think that 
>> there should be a combined community center at Hartwell at all, and I know 
>> there are several of folks who don't, then you should vote NO, since I don't 
>> think the committee intends to go way back 10+ years to re-hash all those 
>> decisions."
>> 
>> There is a crucial nuance here.   Let's try to not get tangled up in 
>> misunderstandings and confusion about what each of us thinks a "combined 
>> community center" means when we vote.
>> 
>> I support pursuing new construction to meet rec and coa needs at Hartwell 
>> with the explicit caveat that this study, if approved, produces a new option 
>> (to consider when it comes time to vote on a preferred choice) that is no 
>> frills, focused on the essentials and that takes advantage of any favorable 
>> opportunities to provide _some_ of the services at other sites in town.  
>> Even if some of the services are not at the Hartwell site, it would still be 
>> a "combined community center."
>> 
>> From the discussion at the Select Board meeting last night, I believe that 
>> something along the lines of what I said in the previous paragraph is what 
>> the Community Center Building Committee intends to do.  I eagerly await 
>> seeing exactly what is presented tomorrow.
>> 
>> If we incorporate the work to flesh out and cost estimate a version that has 
>> "center of gravity and new construction at Hartwell, but some things might 
>> be elsewhere" that is NOT re-hashing 10 years of work and decisions.  It is 
>> finally completing important work that I wish we had done earlier in this 
>> saga.
>> 
>> Dennis Picker
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
>> .
>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
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>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>> 
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To 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center- clarifying what the vote means

[Andy Wang]

Dennis,

I agree that you are not distorting the sentiment of the statement I posted
before.

However, I think you're probably more correct to question this statement:
"However, if you are in favor of a combined community center on the
Hartwell campus, but are concerned about the cost, then I would encourage
people to support the vote with a YES on Wednesday because this is the only
way that the project can move forward and further define what the costs
will be (and potential cost savings...and to be fair, possible cost
increases) and overall impact.  And whatever comes out, the town will be
back to vote on THAT plan with, hopefully, more information."

I will correct myself in saying that I should have said 'but are concerned
about cost *and/or scope*' and not just the cost.  I still believe, that
without the funding, some of that reduction in scope can't happen without
professional services to back them up. Some outreach could be done, but the
real impact to the building and spaces can't really be determined without
services.

I've personally gone back and forth about supporting an amendment to put
more explicit language in the warrant, but given the way it is written, it
does not seem to fit in.  The language is intentionally broad to give the
committee some latitude in this next phase.  I believe this puts more trust
in the CCBC to look into some of the things you are suggesting in looking
for some things that might be elsewhere, but given that I'm not going to do
that work, I'll have to rely on the output of others.  I always come back
to the belief that the committee would like to build a community center,
and they are going to come to terms with the fact that they are going to
have to put forward a plan they think will pass a 2/3 vote to bond.  This
vote should not be the hard vote, the next ones (pick proposal & bond) are.

- Andy





On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:01 PM Dennis Picker 
wrote:

> I want to call attention to this outside of the torrent of posts on the
> main Community Center thread.
>
> Andy Wang said, in part (I don't think that my excerpting distorts his
> meaning):
>
> "Now, if you (the royal you, not you specifically, Adam) don't think that
> there should be a combined community center at Hartwell at all, and I know
> there are several of folks who don't, then you should vote NO, since I
> don't think the committee intends to go way back 10+ years to re-hash all
> those decisions."
>
> There is a crucial nuance here.   Let's try to not get tangled up in
> misunderstandings and confusion about what each of us thinks a "combined
> community center" means when we vote.
>
> I support pursuing new construction to meet rec and coa needs at Hartwell
> with the explicit caveat that this study, if approved, produces a new
> option (to consider when it comes time to vote on a preferred choice) that
> is no frills, focused on the essentials and that takes advantage of any
> favorable opportunities to provide _some_ of the services at other sites in
> town.  Even if some of the services are not at the Hartwell site, it would
> still be a "combined community center."
>
> From the discussion at the Select Board meeting last night, I believe that
> something along the lines of what I said in the previous paragraph is what
> the Community Center Building Committee intends to do.  I eagerly await
> seeing exactly what is presented tomorrow.
>
> If we incorporate the work to flesh out and cost estimate a version that
> has "center of gravity and new construction at Hartwell, but some things
> might be elsewhere" that is NOT re-hashing 10 years of work and decisions.
> It is finally completing important work that I wish we had done earlier in
> this saga.
>
> Dennis Picker
>
>
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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[LincolnTalk] Community Center- clarifying what the vote means

[Dennis Picker]

I want to call attention to this outside of the torrent of posts on the
main Community Center thread.

Andy Wang said, in part (I don't think that my excerpting distorts his
meaning):

"Now, if you (the royal you, not you specifically, Adam) don't think that
there should be a combined community center at Hartwell at all, and I know
there are several of folks who don't, then you should vote NO, since I
don't think the committee intends to go way back 10+ years to re-hash all
those decisions."

There is a crucial nuance here.   Let's try to not get tangled up in
misunderstandings and confusion about what each of us thinks a "combined
community center" means when we vote.

I support pursuing new construction to meet rec and coa needs at Hartwell
with the explicit caveat that this study, if approved, produces a new
option (to consider when it comes time to vote on a preferred choice) that
is no frills, focused on the essentials and that takes advantage of any
favorable opportunities to provide _some_ of the services at other sites in
town.  Even if some of the services are not at the Hartwell site, it would
still be a "combined community center."

>From the discussion at the Select Board meeting last night, I believe that
something along the lines of what I said in the previous paragraph is what
the Community Center Building Committee intends to do.  I eagerly await
seeing exactly what is presented tomorrow.

If we incorporate the work to flesh out and cost estimate a version that
has "center of gravity and new construction at Hartwell, but some things
might be elsewhere" that is NOT re-hashing 10 years of work and decisions.
It is finally completing important work that I wish we had done earlier in
this saga.

Dennis Picker
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln]

Thanks:) 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, November 29, 2022, 12:31 PM, Barbara Low  
wrote:

I am out for the afternoon and will scan and post when I return.
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Joanna Owen Schmergel 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 12:27:45 PM
To: Dennis Picker ; Barbara Low 

Cc: Lincoln Talk 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing Can someone post it so we can all 
see it? 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, November 29, 2022, 12:20 PM, Dennis Picker 
 wrote:

Yiikes, that anonymous mailing is too bad.  I think people can see that I am 
not shy about stating my case.  I know nothing and certainly had nothing to do 
with this mailing.  BTW, I consider myself tech savvy, but I would need 
tutoring to teach me how to send out a town-wide email let alone making it 
anonymous :-)
Dennis Picker
On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low  wrote:

I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against the 
Community Center proposal.
Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take seriously 
those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify themselves. Who paid 
for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
Will someone take "credit" now?
Barbara Low-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Sara Mattes]

The key is-what are the parameters of the study.
How much flexibility will there be?
Will we set a cap on costs in the study?
Will we be allowed to look at some service delivery off the Hartwell campus?

Those parameter will be set tomorrow night.

Will allow flexibility to entertain true options, or will it be all or nothing?

If there is not a vote that codifies true options, I would be skeptical about 
moving forward.


--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 29, 2022, at 12:25 PM, Jennifer Saffran  
> wrote:
> 
> No. This kind of study, where options are explored, is how building projects 
> work. Anywhere.
> 
> To be clear, the vote is on the study. Period. 
> 
> Now, obviously, if a voter feels that such a center should not be built, then 
> vote no. If a voter wants more information of what can be bought for how many 
> dollars, siting concerns, etc., then vote for the study.
> 
> Exploring private philanthropy is premature.
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Elizabeth Goldsmith > > wrote:
>> 
>> I, too, am concerned that commitments for private funding are not further 
>> along. I would feel a lot better about the financial aspect of the proposal 
>> if we understood if (and how much) would be supported either by private 
>> individuals or foundations. After so many year of discussion, I would have 
>> thought the funding for the project would be part of the proposal.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Laura Crosby > >
>> Sent: Nov 29, 2022 12:06 PM
>> To: Sara Mattes mailto:samat...@gmail.com>>
>> Cc: Lincoln Talk mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>> 
>>  
>> It is in early process behind the scenes. They have consulted with 
>> development  pros. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes > > wrote:
>> 
>> Waiting is not necessary.
>> It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to 
>> lead and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked 
>> with.
>> When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the 
>> bank."
>>  
>> There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other 
>> individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents 
>> for local organizations.
>> Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, 
>> a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.
>>  
>> To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby > > wrote:
>> 
>> Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
>> project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan > > wrote:
>> 
>> Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from 
>> private funding?
>>  
>> Thank you, Carol R
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low > > wrote:
>> 
>> Well said!
>>  
>> Barbara Low
>> From: Lincoln > > on behalf of Laura Crosby 
>> mailto:lauracros...@comcast.net>>
>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
>> To: Lincoln Talks mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>>
>> Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>>  
>> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose 
>> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall 
>> as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, 
>> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to 
>> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for 
>> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have 
>> to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased. 
>> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way 
>> to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
>> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
>> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
>> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health 
>> and well-being,
>> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
>> information,
>> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
>> affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
>> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our 
>> Lincoln residents. 
>> I hope you will consider voting
>> YES on Wednesday evening. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> -- 
>> The 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[DJCP]

Oh nevermind. Her original message said email but she does mean physical
mail

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 12:33 PM DJCP  wrote:

> I think she means this email. I'm attaching a screenshot with the return
> address. Hard to say with bcc whether it came to my own email or the joint
> email I share with my husband and which I use for LT.
> Diana
> Giles rd
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 12:28 PM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln <
> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>
>> Can someone post it so we can all see it?
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022, 12:20 PM, Dennis Picker <
>> dennis.pick...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yiikes, that anonymous mailing is too bad.  I think people can see that I
>> am not shy about stating my case.  I know nothing and certainly had nothing
>> to do with this mailing.  BTW, I consider myself tech savvy, but I would
>> need tutoring to teach me how to send out a town-wide email let alone
>> making it anonymous :-)
>>
>> Dennis Picker
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing
>> against the Community Center proposal.
>>
>> Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take
>> seriously those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify
>> themselves. Who paid for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
>>
>> Will someone take "credit" now?
>>
>> Barbara Low
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Barbara Low]

I am out for the afternoon and will scan and post when I return.

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android

From: Joanna Owen Schmergel 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 12:27:45 PM
To: Dennis Picker ; Barbara Low 

Cc: Lincoln Talk 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

Can someone post it so we can all see it?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, November 29, 2022, 12:20 PM, Dennis Picker 
 wrote:

Yiikes, that anonymous mailing is too bad.  I think people can see that I am 
not shy about stating my case.  I know nothing and certainly had nothing to do 
with this mailing.  BTW, I consider myself tech savvy, but I would need 
tutoring to teach me how to send out a town-wide email let alone making it 
anonymous :-)

Dennis Picker

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low 
mailto:barbara_...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against the 
Community Center proposal.

Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take seriously 
those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify themselves. Who paid 
for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?

Will someone take "credit" now?

Barbara Low
--
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln]

Can someone post it so we can all see it? 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, November 29, 2022, 12:20 PM, Dennis Picker 
 wrote:

Yiikes, that anonymous mailing is too bad.  I think people can see that I am 
not shy about stating my case.  I know nothing and certainly had nothing to do 
with this mailing.  BTW, I consider myself tech savvy, but I would need 
tutoring to teach me how to send out a town-wide email let alone making it 
anonymous :-)
Dennis Picker
On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low  wrote:

I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against the 
Community Center proposal.
Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take seriously 
those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify themselves. Who paid 
for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
Will someone take "credit" now?
Barbara Low-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.


-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Jennifer Saffran]

No. This kind of study, where options are explored, is how building projects 
work. Anywhere.

To be clear, the vote is on the study. Period. 

Now, obviously, if a voter feels that such a center should not be built, then 
vote no. If a voter wants more information of what can be bought for how many 
dollars, siting concerns, etc., then vote for the study.

Exploring private philanthropy is premature.

> On Nov 29, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Elizabeth Goldsmith  
> wrote:
> 
> I, too, am concerned that commitments for private funding are not further 
> along. I would feel a lot better about the financial aspect of the proposal 
> if we understood if (and how much) would be supported either by private 
> individuals or foundations. After so many year of discussion, I would have 
> thought the funding for the project would be part of the proposal.
> -Original Message-
> From: Laura Crosby 
> Sent: Nov 29, 2022 12:06 PM
> To: Sara Mattes 
> Cc: Lincoln Talk 
> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
> 
>  
> It is in early process behind the scenes. They have consulted with 
> development  pros. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
> 
> Waiting is not necessary.
> It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to lead 
> and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked with.
> When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the 
> bank."
>  
> There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other 
> individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents 
> for local organizations.
> Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, 
> a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.
>  
> To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
> --
> Sara Mattes
>  
>  
> 
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:
> 
> Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
> project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from 
> private funding?
>  
> Thank you, Carol R
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
> 
> Well said!
>  
> Barbara Low
> From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
> 
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
> To: Lincoln Talks 
> Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>  
> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose 
> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as 
> some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, 
> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to 
> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for 
> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to 
> eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased. 
> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way 
> to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and 
> well-being,
> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
> information,
> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
> affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln 
> residents. 
> I hope you will consider voting
> YES on Wednesday evening. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ 
> .
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ 
> .
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln 
> .
> 
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Jennifer Saffran]

It says it’s a normal town like anywhere else. Stuff like this happens in any 
town when there is a suggestion to spend money on large projects. 

> On Nov 29, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Richard Panetta  
> wrote:
> 
> I haven’t seen this mailing so I can speak to it but if it had decent points 
> on why we shouldn’t vote for it what does that say about the town that people 
> were “afraid” to publicly put their name on something that goes against the 
> norm?  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low  > wrote:
> I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against 
> the Community Center proposal.
> 
> Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take seriously 
> those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify themselves. Who 
> paid for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
> 
> Will someone take "credit" now?
> 
> Barbara Low
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
> .
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ 
> .
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ 
> .
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln 
> .
> 
> -- 
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> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Richard Panetta]

I haven’t seen this mailing so I can speak to it but if it had decent
points on why we shouldn’t vote for it what does that say about the town
that people were “afraid” to publicly put their name on something that goes
against the norm?

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low 
wrote:

> I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against
> the Community Center proposal.
>
> Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take
> seriously those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify
> themselves. Who paid for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
>
> Will someone take "credit" now?
>
> Barbara Low
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Dennis Picker]

Yiikes, that anonymous mailing is too bad.  I think people can see that I
am not shy about stating my case.  I know nothing and certainly had nothing
to do with this mailing.  BTW, I consider myself tech savvy, but I would
need tutoring to teach me how to send out a town-wide email let alone
making it anonymous :-)

Dennis Picker

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM Barbara Low 
wrote:

> I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against
> the Community Center proposal.
>
> Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take
> seriously those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify
> themselves. Who paid for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
>
> Will someone take "credit" now?
>
> Barbara Low
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Elizabeth Goldsmith]

I, too, am concerned that commitments for private funding are not further 
along. I would feel a lot better about the financial aspect of the proposal if 
we understood if (and how much) would be supported either by private 
individuals or foundations. After so many year of discussion, I would have 
thought the funding for the project would be part of the proposal.
-Original Message-
From: Laura Crosby 
Sent: Nov 29, 2022 12:06 PM
To: Sara Mattes 
Cc: Lincoln Talk 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

It is in early process behind the scenes. They have consulted with development  
pros. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:


Waiting is not necessary.It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with 
someone designated to lead and a target amount to be raised, initial donors 
identified and worked with.
When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already in the 
bank."
 
There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other 
individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents for 
local organizations.
Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, a 
foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.
 
To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
--
Sara Mattes
 
 


On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:
Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:


Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from private 
funding? 
Thank you, Carol R

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:


Well said!
 
Barbara Low

From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 

Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
To: Lincoln Talks 
Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center 

Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose this 
opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as some 
Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, time, 
resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to develop a 
plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for architecture and 
engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to eventually 
duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased. 
My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way to 
reduce costs to a palatable level. Then lets see what the private 
fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer educational 
opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and well-being,
encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
information,
support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
 Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln 
residents. 
I hope you will consider voting
YES on Wednesday evening. 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Lis Herbert]

Thank you, Laura -- this is spot on.

Time is money, whether because of inflation or quite literally lost man
hours and productivity because you've scrapped something that you didn't
need to.

For all the sky-is-falling emails that I've seen about inflation,
ballooning budgets, tax comparisons and so on, not a single one of them has
acknowledged the fact that a 2-year delay (which is ambitious, considering
the meetings, studies, votes, etc.), on even a $5 million project, taking
into account even modest inflation, will mean spending that $325,000 on
nothing -- and by nothing I mean inflation -- because of the delay.
Delaying other projects -- including this one! -- has shown that to be the
case many times over.

Aren't we far better off advancing the process, and spending the money on
something concrete that moves us closer to something that will be
objectively good for Lincoln?

Lis

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 9:30 PM Laura Crosby 
wrote:

> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose
> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall
> as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought,
> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to
> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for
> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have
> to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased.
> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a
> way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private
> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project.
> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer
> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health
> and well-being,
> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable
> information,
> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness,
> positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull
> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our
> Lincoln residents.
> I hope you will consider voting
> YES on Wednesday evening.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Sara Mattes]

We need to see a plan…we are being asked to pony up $325,000 that moves us to a 
$25 mill bond.
Are you suggesting we would commit to a lesser amount…like $15, assuming this 
private money would fill the gap?
I am of the “trust, but verify” camp.
--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 29, 2022, at 12:05 PM, Laura Crosby  wrote:
> 
> It is in early process behind the scenes. They have consulted with 
> development  pros. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>> 
>> Waiting is not necessary.
>> It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to 
>> lead and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked 
>> with.
>> When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the 
>> bank."
>> 
>> There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other 
>> individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents 
>> for local organizations.
>> Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, 
>> a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.
>> 
>> To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
>>> project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
 
 Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from 
 private funding?
 
 Thank you, Carol R
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well said!
> 
> Barbara Low
> From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
> 
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
> To: Lincoln Talks 
> Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>  
> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not 
> lose this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or 
> Village Hall as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous 
> amount of thought, time, resources and consensus through multiple 
> committees over ten years to develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no 
> on allocating money for architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of 
> existing plans we will have to eventually duplicate dollars for services 
> we have already purchased. 
> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a 
> way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health 
> and well-being,
> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
> information,
> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, 
> positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our 
> Lincoln residents. 
> I hope you will consider voting
> YES on Wednesday evening. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
> -- 
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> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
>>> -- 
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at 
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>> 
>> 

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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Laura Crosby]

It is in early process behind the scenes. They have consulted with development  
pros. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
> 
> Waiting is not necessary.
> It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to lead 
> and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked with.
> When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the 
> bank."
> 
> There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other 
> individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents 
> for local organizations.
> Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, 
> a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.
> 
> To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
> --
> Sara Mattes
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:
>> 
>> Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
>> project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
 
>>> Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from 
>>> private funding?
>>> 
>>> Thank you, Carol R
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
> 
 
 Well said!
 
 Barbara Low
 From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
 
 Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
 To: Lincoln Talks 
 Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
  
 Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose 
 this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall 
 as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of 
 thought, time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over 
 ten years to develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating 
 money for architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we 
 will have to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already 
 purchased. 
 My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a 
 way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
 fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
 History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
 educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health 
 and well-being,
 encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
 information,
 support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, 
 positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
 together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our 
 Lincoln residents. 
 I hope you will consider voting
 YES on Wednesday evening. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 -- 
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
 Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at 
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
 
 -- 
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
 Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at 
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
 
>> -- 
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>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at 
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>> 
> 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Sara Mattes]

This is odd.
There have been many very public posts raising concerns (which I share)  about 
the proposal, as currently understood, and also posts saying “Nay.”
So, evidence says that people are not shy about expressing opposition.

And, why do you thin a non-Lincoln resident would spend the money for a 
town-wide mailing?

Odd.

--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 29, 2022, at 11:53 AM, Barbara Low  wrote:
> 
> I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against 
> the Community Center proposal.
> 
> Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take seriously 
> those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify themselves. Who 
> paid for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?
> 
> Will someone take "credit" now?
> 
> Barbara Low
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
> .
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Andy Wang]

Adam  - To be fair, you don't really know the amount of fundraising that
could be done

But to your point, until something is 'in the bank', people should not vote
based on it either.  But that's not really where we are in the movie.  This
vote is NOT to bond an amount for the Community Center, the vote is for
funds for professional services to further define the plan.  Nothing can
really happen until that occurs, including where we might be able to reduce
costs.

Now, if you (the royal you, not you specifically, Adam) don't think that
there should be a combined community center at Hartwell at all, and I know
there are several of folks who don't, then you should vote NO, since I
don't think the committee intends to go way back 10+ years to re-hash all
those decisions.

However, if you are in favor of a combined community center on the Hartwell
campus, but are concerned about the cost, then I would encourage people to
support the vote with a YES on Wednesday because this is the only way that
the project can move forward and further define what the costs will be (and
potential cost savings...and to be fair, possible cost increases) and
overall impact.  And whatever comes out, the town will be back to vote on
THAT plan with, hopefully, more information.

Granted, $325k isn't a trivial amount of money, but on the scale of town
finances, it's not that much either.  I mean we voted to pay like $47,410
(2016 Annual Town Meeting) to fund, for historic preservation purposes, the
preservation of the Assessor's Valuation Book 1760-1833 - just to pick a
random example.

Not that my opinion matters to anyone, but I plan to vote YES.  This is not
because I'm in the camp of 'build this thing at all costs',  but I do
support having a combined community center at the Hartwell Campus, and I
want to give the committee the tools necessary to provide sufficient
information to convince me to vote to bond in the future.  The mailing that
was sent to residents regarding the Special Town Meeting includes a
statement from the CCBC that says: "The CCBC intends to explore a range of
options, including potential refinements of previously developed concepts,
and an exploration of lower-cost options".  So I think we should give them
funds to pursue and come back to the Town with what they believe will pass
a bond vote, which is also a 2/3 vote...so it better be good.

- Andy



On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 10:35 AM Adam M Hogue 
wrote:

> I want everyone to be realistic here in town we are not going to be able
> to raise a significant amount for this community center.  We are a small,
> wealthy town and we are probably not going to get major foundations to give
> us a large sum.
>
> Even if every person gave 1k in town that is only 5 million.  Still have
> 20 million plus to go.
>
> The funding for this building will primarily come from raising our taxes.
>
> When I ran for select board I promised when building new housing near the
> train station and exploring doing a public private partnership to build a
> community within that housing which would have offset the cost but as far
> as I know the select board hasn’t moved anywhere in the new housing that is
> required by law and is resisting it.
>
> *Adam M Hogue*
> *Cell: **(978) 828-6184 <(978)%20828-6184>*
>
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>
> Waiting is not necessary.
> It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to
> lead and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked
> with.
> When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the
> bank."
>
> There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other
> individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents
> for local organizations.
> Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to
> vote, a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.
>
> To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
> --
> Sara Mattes
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby 
> wrote:
>
> Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of
> project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>
> Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from
> private funding?
>
> Thank you, Carol R
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
>
> 
> Well said!
>
> Barbara Low
> --
> *From:* Lincoln  on behalf of Laura
> Crosby 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
> *To:* Lincoln Talks 
> *Subject:* [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>
> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose
> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall
> as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought,
> time, resources and consensus through 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Laura Crosby]

Thanks, Adam. I think everyone pretty much agrees $25 millionIs too much. We anticipate finding a solution at a reduced price tag. Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 29, 2022, at 10:34 AM, Adam M Hogue  wrote:I want everyone to be realistic here in town we are not going to be able to raise a significant amount for this community center.  We are a small, wealthy town and we are probably not going to get major foundations to give us a large sum.  Even if every person gave 1k in town that is only 5 million.  Still have 20 million plus to go.  The funding for this building will primarily come from raising our taxes. When I ran for select board I promised when building new housing near the train station and exploring doing a public private partnership to build a community within that housing which would have offset the cost but as far as I know the select board hasn’t moved anywhere in the new housing that is required by law and is resisting it.  Adam M HogueCell: (978) 828-6184On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:Waiting is not necessary.It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to lead and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked with.When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the bank."There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents for local organizations.Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
--Sara Mattes


On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from private funding?Thank you, Carol RSent from my iPhoneOn Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:






Well said!




Barbara Low


From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
To: Lincoln Talks 
Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
 


Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, time, resources
 and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already
 purchased. 
My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project.

History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and well-being,
encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable information,
support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
 Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln residents.

I hope you will consider voting
YES on Wednesday evening. 

Sent from my iPhone
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[LincolnTalk] Anonymous Mailing

[Barbara Low]

I just looked through my email today and found a town-wide mailing against the 
Community Center proposal.

Not a single name appears on this mailing piece. It is hard to take seriously 
those who are either too embarrassed or afraid to identify themselves. Who paid 
for this mailing? Are these Lincoln residents?

Will someone take "credit" now?

Barbara Low
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community center: the DOTS endorsement

[Adam M Hogue]

A concern for having the community on the school campus is the increased traffic.  We have already had a kid get hit by a car and near misses.  Do we want to bring more people in the campus during the day when kids are out playing and riding bikes?  Adam M HogueCell: (978) 828-6184On Nov 29, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Dennis Picker  wrote:In the discussion and presentations about the community center we are continually shown the image of the DOTS exercise from almost 10 years ago.  It is cited as a key early indicator of what is phrased by the Community Center Building Committee as "overwhelming support for locating the community center at the Hartwell site."  You are likely to see this image again at the meeting on Wednesday night.Let's dig into this deeper:-This was not a vote.  This was a polling type exercise -conducted at a state of the town meeting as  I recall.-People were asked to indicate their preference for where to site a community center..  They were given choices for different locations in town- Hartwell area, Pierce House, Bemis, south Lincoln mall area, etc.-All of the choices were specifically about locating __everything for both Rec and COA__ in one building at the site in question-NO choices were available that allowed for expressing preference for "Rec at Hartwell but COA might be a combination of Hartwell and other sites."The above constraint on the choices is a key point in interpreting the results.  My belief is that the way the preference poll was framed, the only way that Hartwell would not be the slam dunk winner would be if lots of folks believed rec dept. should be somewhere other than at the Hartwell area.  The way you ask the question has a huge effect on the answer that you receive.-Finally, each person was given 2 dots.  They could put their dots on two different choices or they could double down on their first choice.The results:  over 300 dots for Hartwell, almost no dots for any other location.  This means that about 150 people out of the voting tax paying population of Lincoln put their dots down for Hartwell.To claim that this is then a show of "overwhelming support for locating a community center at Hartwell" is grossly overstating what this exercise measured. Such an inference runs counter to anything close to objective scientific method.A valid interpretation of this exercise is: given the constraint that everything had to be in one place, all together in one building, an overwhelming majority of the people attending that meeting expressed a preference for Hartwell.We do not know what the results of the Dots poll would have been if other hybrid choices had been made available.This is a very important distinction, as I believe that the key to solving the puzzle before us is to allow the flexibility to consider the viability and cost of providing some services at Hartwell and some services at other locations.  Having everything at Hartwell might end up being the right answer, but I am not convinced of that and need to see a careful objective exploration of a range of variations.  Doing that exploration is not an overwhelming task by any means.  It involves creating and filing in a matrix that goes service by service and identifies options besides Hartwell where that particular service could plausibly be provided, and then doing the homework to see the cost and feasibility and pros and cons of such a variation.The long and hard work done by all the committees over the years has not included doing this analysis and I fervently hope we get to a place where that analysis happens.This is not analysis paralysis.Dennis Picker
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[LincolnTalk] Moving boxes

[Mark Singh-Hurrie]

Hello Lincoln community-

We are looking for 15–20 moving boxes.

Thank you.

Mark
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[LincolnTalk] Fwd: With a Joyful Heart! Jameson Singers in concert December 3 & 4

[John Koenig]

Dear Neighbors: If you're searching for seasonal activities, including
music, my chorus, The Jameson Singers, provides two opportunities coming up
this weekend:

   - Saturday December 3 at 8:00PM at First Church, 11 Garden Street,
   Cambridge and
   - Sunday, December 4 at 3:00PM at The Second Church in Newton, 60
   Highland Street, West Newton

The program is very topical in that one is transported to the beauty of the
best of early, classic and beyond music (Tomkins. Byrd, Brahms) through
additional glimpses of Russian sacred music incorporating prayers for peace
and traditional organ and carol singing (with audience participation).

The official announcement with links for more information is below.

Best wishes for a happy and healthy holiday season.

Yours,

John L. Koenig
*

*The Jameson Singers invite you to our festive program for the holidays, *With
a Joyful Heart.* Join us for an evening of song in Cambridge on Saturday,
December 3, or treat yourself to a musical afternoon at our new venue in
Newton on Sunday, December 4!*

Highlights include Ukrainian composer Dmytro Bortniansky’s choral
concerto, *Slava
vo vyshnikh Bohu* (Glory to God in the Highest), with its unique blend of
Baroque polyphony, Ukrainian folk melodies, and Church Slavonic
liturgy. In *Dona
Nobis Pacem*, contemporary Latvian composer Pēteris Vasks makes a poignant
plea for peace. Johannes Brahms uses poetry, chromatic colors, and
continually changing rhythms to take listeners on an intensely emotional
journey in his motet, *O Heiland, reiss die Himmel auf* (O Savior, tear
open the heavens).
Our program also features works from Renaissance masters William Byrd and
Thomas Tomkins, modern gems from Stephen Paulus and Stephen Caracciolo —
and YOU, joining us in our annual carol sing!

*With a Joyful Heart *will be a night - and afternoon - you won’t want to
miss! Tickets on sale now, starting at $15, or at the door in Cambridge and
Newton. The Jameson Singers look forward to seeing you!
*Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:00 PM*
First Church in Cambridge
11 Garden Street, Cambridge
Tickets for December 3


*Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:00 PM*
The Second Church in Newton
60 Highland Street, West Newton
Tickets for December 4


*COVID-19 Safety Information*

For the health and safety of all, we are requiring audience members to be
fully vaccinated and wear masks at all times.

   - Masks should be well-fitting and cover your nose and mouth
   - All singers and volunteers will be masked and fully vaccinated and
   boosted
   - Please stay home if you are feeling unwell

Donate

[image: Facebook]

Facebook

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YouTube

[image: Website]

Website

[image: Instagram]

Instagram

*Copyright © 2022 The Jameson Singers, All rights reserved.*
You are receiving this email because you opted in at our website or at a
concert.

*Our mailing address is:*
The Jameson Singers
POB 29
Arlington, MA 02476

Add us to your address book



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Re: [LincolnTalk] [EXT] Community Center

[Carlson, Jeanine]

Good morning, everyone,

As noted, the Community Center process has been ongoing for several years.  
However, it appears that the updates consist only of increasing the cost, not 
re-thinking what is necessary and what is on the "wish list if money were not 
an option".

We are being asked to commit $325,000 which will help us decide between 
something that costs $24.8 million or $26 million.  In either case, it is very 
expensive and as others have noted, contains amenities that are not necessary.  
It would be nice if the Committee were to offer a lower-priced option, many 
suggestions for which have been put forward on Lincoln Talk.

If we approve the $325,000, the architects are going to work on only two 
options: $24.8M or $26M.  They will not be looking at anything that will cost 
less.  If we desire a Community Center but at a lower price-point, then 
spending the $325,000 now will be a total waste of time and money.

Would you put down a $100,00 non-refundable deposit on a $3.6M Lamborghini when 
you know you can only afford a Smart car?

Thank you to everyone who has posted over the past several weeks.

Jeanine






From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 

Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
To: Lincoln Talks 
Subject: [EXT] [LincolnTalk] Community Center


EXTERNAL MESSAGE - TREAT LINKS/FILES WITH CARE

Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose this 
opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as some 
Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, time, 
resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to develop a 
plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for architecture and 
engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to eventually 
duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased.
My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way to 
reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private fundraising 
group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project.
History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer educational 
opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and well-being,
encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
information,
support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
 Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln 
residents.
I hope you will consider voting
YES on Wednesday evening.

Sent from my iPhone
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[LincolnTalk] Community center: the DOTS endorsement

[Dennis Picker]

In the discussion and presentations about the community center we are
continually shown the image of the DOTS exercise from almost 10 years ago.
It is cited as a key early indicator of what is phrased by the Community
Center Building Committee as "overwhelming support for locating the
community center at the Hartwell site."  You are likely to see this image
again at the meeting on Wednesday night.

Let's dig into this deeper:

-This was not a vote.  This was a polling type exercise -conducted at a
state of the town meeting as  I recall.

-People were asked to indicate their preference for where to site a
community center..  They were given choices for different locations in
town- Hartwell area, Pierce House, Bemis, south Lincoln mall area, etc.

-All of the choices were specifically about locating __everything for both
Rec and COA__ in one building at the site in question

-NO choices were available that allowed for expressing preference for "Rec
at Hartwell but COA might be a combination of Hartwell and other sites."

The above constraint on the choices is a key point in interpreting the
results.  My belief is that the way the preference poll was framed, the
only way that Hartwell would not be the slam dunk winner would be if lots
of folks believed rec dept. should be somewhere other than at the Hartwell
area.  The way you ask the question has a huge effect on the answer that
you receive.

-Finally, each person was given 2 dots.  They could put their dots on two
different choices or they could double down on their first choice.

The results:  over 300 dots for Hartwell, almost no dots for any other
location.  This means that about 150 people out of the voting tax paying
population of Lincoln put their dots down for Hartwell.

To claim that this is then a show of "overwhelming support for locating a
community center at Hartwell" is grossly overstating what this
exercise measured. Such an inference runs counter to anything close to
objective scientific method.

A valid interpretation of this exercise is: given the constraint that
everything had to be in one place, all together in one building, an
overwhelming majority of the people attending that meeting expressed a
preference for Hartwell.

We do not know what the results of the Dots poll would have been if other
hybrid choices had been made available.

This is a very important distinction, as I believe that the key to solving
the puzzle before us is to allow the flexibility to consider the viability
and cost of providing some services at Hartwell and some services at other
locations.  Having everything at Hartwell might end up being the right
answer, but I am not convinced of that and need to see a careful objective
exploration of a range of variations.  Doing that exploration is not an
overwhelming task by any means.  It involves creating and filing in a
matrix that goes service by service and identifies options besides Hartwell
where that particular service could plausibly be provided, and then doing
the homework to see the cost and feasibility and pros and cons of such a
variation.

The long and hard work done by all the committees over the years has not
included doing this analysis and I fervently hope we get to a place where
that analysis happens.

This is not analysis paralysis.

Dennis Picker
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[LincolnTalk] Boxes in need

[Tom]

Hi,

We're in the process of cleaning out a house and were wondering if anyone in 
town has some boxes they're willing to part with.

Thanks,

Tom


Sent from Outlook
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[LincolnTalk] Endorsing Community Center Expenditure

[Allen Vander Meulen]

Personally, I plan to vote for the $325K being requested at the Special Town 
Meeting and encourage all to do so.  

At the very least, recent changes in construction labor and materials costs 
will greatly affect the current estimates (likely downwards) - and I am certain 
the architect will be asked to modify the preliminary designs to reduce cost 
even further.  In other words, I expect many or most of the concerns being 
raised will be addressed within the next phase of the project.  $325K is a good 
investment to get us there: the CCBC and Town Administration are very aware 
that cost is a major concern.  They do not want to see all the effort and 
resources already invested into this project fail, and will work hard to 
address the issues being raised.  We need to trust them, and besides - we 
really need to know what we’re talking about before committing the town - one 
way or another - to the construction of a Community Center, and before we 
constrain what that result should be.

- Allen Vander Meulen

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[LincolnTalk] Whole house water filter recommendations

[Emily Marcus]

Hello LT,

We are planning to install a whole house water filter. 

With the many options available, I thought it would make sense to ask LT for 
products that others in town have have installed and would recommend.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Emily Marcus-Hoertdoerfer




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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Adam M Hogue]

I want everyone to be realistic here in town we are not going to be able to raise a significant amount for this community center.  We are a small, wealthy town and we are probably not going to get major foundations to give us a large sum.  Even if every person gave 1k in town that is only 5 million.  Still have 20 million plus to go.  The funding for this building will primarily come from raising our taxes. When I ran for select board I promised when building new housing near the train station and exploring doing a public private partnership to build a community within that housing which would have offset the cost but as far as I know the select board hasn’t moved anywhere in the new housing that is required by law and is resisting it.  Adam M HogueCell: (978) 828-6184On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:Waiting is not necessary.It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to lead and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked with.When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the bank."There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents for local organizations.Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, a foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
--Sara Mattes


On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from private funding?Thank you, Carol RSent from my iPhoneOn Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:






Well said!




Barbara Low


From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
To: Lincoln Talks 
Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
 


Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, time, resources
 and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already
 purchased. 
My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project.

History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and well-being,
encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable information,
support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
 Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln residents.

I hope you will consider voting
YES on Wednesday evening. 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Sara Mattes]

Waiting is not necessary.
It is not uncommon for a plan to be in place, with someone designated to lead 
and a target amount to be raised, initial donors identified and worked with.
When such fundraising is announced, a substantial sum is already “in the bank."

There are several accomplished fundraisers in town, and several other 
individuals who raise large sums on a regular basis from Lincoln residents for 
local organizations.
Before the promise of private fundraising is offered to those about to vote, a 
foundation for the appeal needs to be in place.

To date, we are told, no such groundwork has been done.
--
Sara Mattes




> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Laura Crosby  wrote:
> 
> Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
> project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>> 
>> Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from 
>> private funding?
>> 
>> Thank you, Carol R
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well said!
>>> 
>>> Barbara Low
>>> From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
>>> To: Lincoln Talks 
>>> Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>>>  
>>> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose 
>>> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall 
>>> as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, 
>>> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to 
>>> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for 
>>> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have 
>>> to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased. 
>>> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way 
>>> to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
>>> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
>>> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
>>> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health 
>>> and well-being,
>>> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
>>> information,
>>> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
>>> affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>>>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
>>> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our 
>>> Lincoln residents. 
>>> I hope you will consider voting
>>> YES on Wednesday evening. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> -- 
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at 
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>> 
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>>> 
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[LincolnTalk] ISO Clean 1-Gallon Milk Jugs

[LLCT Information]

Hi Lincoln Talk,

Lincoln Land Conservation Trust is seeking about 30 1-gallon plastic milk
jugs (could also be Oj or Water jugs too) for a pollinator seed-sowing
activity. If you have any that you are willing to donate, that would be
greatly appreciated.

Jugs can be dropped off at the Transfer Station this Wednesday (11/30) and
Saturday (12/3). A clearly labelled barrel will be located at the bottle
and can shed. Please rinse jugs thoroughly!!

Much appreciated!

-LLCT
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Heather Ring via Lincoln]

Last night the Board of Select meeting provided an initial run through of Wednesday nights presentation.  Preliminary slides will be sent out today by Peggy Elder.  I strongly urge all to read the materials.  List your questions/concerns to ask Wednesday night.  The wording can be amended on the floor Wednesday night.   Make sure you know and understand the vote you will be asked to make.   Thank you to the BoS and all who participated for a hearty important discussion last night.  -Heather Heather Ring pronouns: she/her/hersOn Nov 29, 2022, at 08:28, Magruder Donaldson  wrote:A worthwhile town resource which will become increasingly costly with further delay…Craig DonaldsonOn Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 11:14 PM Barbara Low  wrote:






Well said!




Barbara Low


From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
To: Lincoln Talks 
Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
 


Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, time, resources
 and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already
 purchased. 
My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project.

History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and well-being,
encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable information,
support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
 Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln residents.

I hope you will consider voting
YES on Wednesday evening. 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Laura Crosby]

Private fundraising has not begun yet. They are waiting for next step of 
project to advance so they will better know what the final project will be. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from 
> private funding?
> 
> Thank you, Carol R
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Well said!
>> 
>> Barbara Low
>> From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
>> 
>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
>> To: Lincoln Talks 
>> Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>>  
>> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose 
>> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall 
>> as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, 
>> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to 
>> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for 
>> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have 
>> to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased. 
>> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way 
>> to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
>> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
>> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
>> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health 
>> and well-being,
>> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
>> information,
>> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
>> affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
>> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our 
>> Lincoln residents. 
>> I hope you will consider voting
>> YES on Wednesday evening. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> -- 
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at 
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>> 
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>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at 
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>> 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] A momentary change of focus.

[kathryn hawkins]

Sarah!

Thank you for sharing:)
What a beautiful story that came from such a tragedy.
Your dad was a hero!

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 4:36 PM sarah cannon holden <
sarahcannonhol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The Cocoanut Grove Fire occurred 80 years ago in a Boston Nightclub.  It
> is one of the most devastating fires in Boston's history.  Nearly 500
> people died.  They were trapped inside long before exit doors and other
> precautions were in place.  I thought that the following very edited
> version of one part of that history would be interesting to others in
> Lincoln.
>
> Sarah Cannon Holden
>
>
>
>
> In 1943 my father, Bradford Cannon, led the team of surgeons who cared for
> the survivors of the Cocoanut Grove fire.
>
> Fifty years later, my brother Laurie was a senior captain with United
> Airlines.  The first officer asked Laurie where he was from.
>
> “Boston.”
>
> “Hmm,” said his first officer, “the only person I know of from Boston is a
> doctor named Bradford Cannon.”
>
> “Really?  He’s my father.”
>
> “Well, he saved my mother’s life.”
>
> “Yes, when she was 20 years old she was burned at the Cocoanut Grove
> fire.  Her boyfriend died.  She later married my father.”  He paused.
>
>  “And, my middle name is Bradford – after your dad.”
>
> My father specifically remembered the man’s mother who was very badly
> burned.  Ultimately she moved to San Diego.
>
> There was soon to be a medical meeting there.  My dad and my mother, then
> in their 80s, bought their tickets and left for San Diego – maybe to attend
> the meeting but certainly to see his patient after all these years.
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Sent from Gmail Mobile
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[LincolnTalk] Thanks to COA

[Bijoy Misra]

Friends,
I fell at home last month and caused a leg fracture.on my left tibia.
I spent two days in the hospital and a week in Lincoln Rehab in the
Commons.  I spent six weeks on a wheelchair loaned to us by CoA.
CoA also helped in various other handicap arrangements at home.
New to this experience, I admired the eagerness and the alert support
that were received through my wife who volunteers there. I am fit
to walk now.  I wish to express my public acknowledgement to COA
for their support. This was my first hospitalization after more than thirty
years.  The local hospital medical care system can be rated at best a
B minus while the care at the Rehab a struggling C.
Best regards,
Bijoy Misra
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Magruder Donaldson]

A worthwhile town resource which will become increasingly costly with
further delay…
Craig Donaldson

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 11:14 PM Barbara Low 
wrote:

> Well said!
>
> Barbara Low
> --
> *From:* Lincoln  on behalf of Laura
> Crosby 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
> *To:* Lincoln Talks 
> *Subject:* [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>
> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose
> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall
> as some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought,
> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to
> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for
> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have
> to eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased.
> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a
> way to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private
> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project.
> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer
> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health
> and well-being,
> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable
> information,
> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness,
> positively affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull
> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our
> Lincoln residents.
> I hope you will consider voting
> YES on Wednesday evening.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
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> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
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> .
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>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

[Carol Ryan]

Is it possible to share the amount that has thus far been promised from private 
funding?

Thank you, Carol R

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 28, 2022, at 11:14 PM, Barbara Low  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well said!
> 
> Barbara Low
> From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
> 
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:30 PM
> To: Lincoln Talks 
> Subject: [LincolnTalk] Community Center
>  
> Whatever we do, wherever we build it and whatever it costs let us not lose 
> this opportunity to build a much needed Community Center ( or Village Hall as 
> some Europeans call it ). There has been a tremendous amount of thought, 
> time, resources and consensus through multiple committees over ten years to 
> develop a plan at Hartwell.  If we vote no on allocating money for 
> architecture and engineering relook/ revamp of existing plans we will have to 
> eventually duplicate dollars for services we have already purchased. 
> My hope is that we can relook at the work that has been done and find a way 
> to reduce costs to a palatable level. Then let’s see what the private 
> fundraising group can do to help reduce taxes further on the project. 
> History shows that a community center can unite a community, offer 
> educational opportunities, provide much needed facilities, promote health and 
> well-being,
> encourage creativity and culture, enhance the ability to share valuable 
> information,
> support a wide variety of community projects, combat loneliness, positively 
> affect lives of younger people, provide volunteer activities.
>  Now more than ever we live in challenging times that require us to pull 
> together to bring as much community support as possible to all of our Lincoln 
> residents. 
> I hope you will consider voting
> YES on Wednesday evening. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/.
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> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
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