Re: webmail client, NG?
On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote: Ira Why is gmail annoying you? I can't believe you want to host your own mail server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle with SA and the rest of the ball of wax. Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I* found in gmail here: http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead. Regards, Shlomi Fish br Danny On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) Thanks, Ira. -- Reporting Live Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
shlomi, that was the important things ? what about the fact that google knows everything about you ? if you use it for buying things online, than google has your name, adress, id etc ... and google knows also what you are searching for (if you search via google) and usually knows what sites you surf to (torrent, porn, hackers etc ...) via googleanalytics ... and where you were if you are using google-maps+gps ... and more i think that is more important than not being able to right click - reply ... erez.. On Jan 1, 2008 1:35 PM, Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote: Ira Why is gmail annoying you? I can't believe you want to host your own mail server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle with SA and the rest of the ball of wax. Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I* found in gmail here: http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead. Regards, Shlomi Fish br Danny On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) Thanks, Ira. -- Reporting Live Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
On Tue, Jan 01, 2008, Erez D wrote about Re: webmail client, NG?: what about the fact that google knows everything about you ? How is this any different from the fact that my ISP knows everything about what I surf (much more than Google, by the way)? That my credit card company and bank know everything I buy? That my phone company knows everything I speak on the phone? At some point, you simply have to assume that knowing and abusing is not the same thing. Google can abuse the content of your mail, just like your phone company can abuse the content of your phone calls. But both companies have a clean track record (existed for several years with several million users and have abused none of them), so isn't it sensible that they won't screw with you? In any case, for content which is really secret, you shouldn't trust Google, your ISP or anybody - just use client-side cryptography. If you get an encrypted mail to gmail, there is no way for Google to read it, even though they have the encrypted content. A secret site would be using SSL, prevent nasties like your ISP, phone compnay, or Google from sniffing the connection. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Jan 1 2008, 23 Tevet 5768 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |My typos are intentional copyright traps. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
Hi Erez! On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Erez D wrote: shlomi, that was the important things ? what about the fact that google knows everything about you ? if you use it for buying things online, than google has your name, adress, id etc ... and google knows also what you are searching for (if you search via google) and usually knows what sites you surf to (torrent, porn, hackers etc ...) via googleanalytics ... and where you were if you are using google-maps+gps ... and more i think that is more important than not being able to right click - reply ... Well, not only did you top-post, but you've diverted the discussion into a completely different angle. Possibly a non-sequitur - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic) . I didn't talk about the privacy issues involved with Google in general and GMail.com in particular. As much as I'm aware of this issue, I didn't seem to suffer from it so far (as Nadav mentioned) and it is global to all popular web-services in the WWW-oriented world. One can take some client-side measures to mitigate them, but I didn't bother so far. What I did talk about were usability problems in GMail.com, which cause me to still prefer KMail. These affect my day to day use of email, and bother me or make me more content in using the program or service. If you want to discuss the Google.com privacy issues feel free to do so, but I won't take any further part in it. These privacy issues don't affect the usability of the email service I'm using so I'll keep it as that. Regards, Shlomi Fish erez.. On Jan 1, 2008 1:35 PM, Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote: Ira Why is gmail annoying you? I can't believe you want to host your own mail server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle with SA and the rest of the ball of wax. Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I* found in gmail here: http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead. Regards, Shlomi Fish br Danny On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) Thanks, Ira. -- Reporting Live Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: webmail client, NG?
Compare the terms and conditions regarding privacy. In a very fragile nut shell: You get only snail mail spam from your credit card company and even that is not targeted. Your ISP is not allowed to spy on you, at least not in Israel and not without a warrant. Your voice services providers are under heavy redgulations too. Google has none ( well, almost), you are actually allowing them to do whatever they want, without telling you. Anyway, as Nadav said, just use encryption. Unless of course you are wearing your tin foil hat:) Moish -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nadav Har'El Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:14 PM To: Erez D Cc: IGLU Mailing list Subject: Re: webmail client, NG? On Tue, Jan 01, 2008, Erez D wrote about Re: webmail client, NG?: what about the fact that google knows everything about you ? How is this any different from the fact that my ISP knows everything about what I surf (much more than Google, by the way)? That my credit card company and bank know everything I buy? That my phone company knows everything I speak on the phone? At some point, you simply have to assume that knowing and abusing is not the same thing. Google can abuse the content of your mail, just like your phone company can abuse the content of your phone calls. But both companies have a clean track record (existed for several years with several million users and have abused none of them), so isn't it sensible that they won't screw with you? In any case, for content which is really secret, you shouldn't trust Google, your ISP or anybody - just use client-side cryptography. If you get an encrypted mail to gmail, there is no way for Google to read it, even though they have the encrypted content. A secret site would be using SSL, prevent nasties like your ISP, phone compnay, or Google from sniffing the connection. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Jan 1 2008, 23 Tevet 5768 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |My typos are intentional copyright traps. http://nadav.harel.org.il | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: webmail client, NG?
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 17:40 +0200, Moshe Leibovitch wrote: Compare the terms and conditions regarding privacy. In a very fragile nut shell: You get only snail mail spam from your credit card company and even that is not targeted. Your ISP is not allowed to spy on you, at least not in Israel and not without a warrant. Your voice services providers are under heavy redgulations too. Google has none ( well, almost), you are actually allowing them to do whatever they want, without telling you. Anyway, as Nadav said, just use encryption. Unless of course you are wearing your tin foil hat:) Moish e? Because we are not meant to read messages backwards...! Why? top-posting! Please stop of God For the love - Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
I use gmail and like it, I do understand the issues Shlomi complained about and thus use also Thunderbird with gmail using as IMAP server, this way I have the best of both worlds. -- Ori Idan On Jan 1, 2008 5:01 PM, Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Erez! On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Erez D wrote: shlomi, that was the important things ? what about the fact that google knows everything about you ? if you use it for buying things online, than google has your name, adress, id etc ... and google knows also what you are searching for (if you search via google) and usually knows what sites you surf to (torrent, porn, hackers etc ...) via googleanalytics ... and where you were if you are using google-maps+gps ... and more i think that is more important than not being able to right click - reply ... Well, not only did you top-post, but you've diverted the discussion into a completely different angle. Possibly a non-sequitur - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_%28logic%29. I didn't talk about the privacy issues involved with Google in general and GMail.com in particular. As much as I'm aware of this issue, I didn't seem to suffer from it so far (as Nadav mentioned) and it is global to all popular web-services in the WWW-oriented world. One can take some client-side measures to mitigate them, but I didn't bother so far. What I did talk about were usability problems in GMail.com, which cause me to still prefer KMail. These affect my day to day use of email, and bother me or make me more content in using the program or service. If you want to discuss the Google.com privacy issues feel free to do so, but I won't take any further part in it. These privacy issues don't affect the usability of the email service I'm using so I'll keep it as that. Regards, Shlomi Fish erez.. On Jan 1, 2008 1:35 PM, Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote: Ira Why is gmail annoying you? I can't believe you want to host your own mail server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle with SA and the rest of the ball of wax. Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I* found in gmail here: http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead. Regards, Shlomi Fish br Danny On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) Thanks, Ira. -- Reporting Live Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ספרים וסיפורים שכתבתי: http://www.thestories.org
Re: webmail client, NG?
On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM +0200, Ori Idan wrote: I use gmail and like it, I do understand the issues Shlomi complained about and thus use also Thunderbird with gmail using as IMAP server, this way I have the best of both worlds. Unless someone sends you a large file. Or the one sending you the email is on google's blacklist. And such things. I feel much better being in control of my mail server. -- Tzafrir Cohen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's [EMAIL PROTECTED] || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
webmail client, NG?
Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) Thanks, Ira. -- Reporting Live Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 12:56 +0200, Ira Abramov wrote:
Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely
on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system
than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of
the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail?
I don't like IMP4, though its definitely one of the best open source web
mail clients available. Currently I'm mostly using squirrel mail which
is old and nothing fancy but it works and what that it does - it does
well.
I've tested roundcube web mail a lot, which is a very cool AJAX mail
interface, but it does not look like the development is going anywhere
(its been at version 0.1-rc2 {yes, an RC for a 0. release} for like
forever), and while its is very nice it is a bitch getting it to work -
at least without a MySQL database - and sometimes it just locks up and
refuses to behave.
If you're willing to pay for commercial software, and I think the fee is
reasonable, you might want to try @mail (atmail) which is one of the
coolest web mail interfaces I've seen to date. They have online demos
you can play with at their site, including using them to access your own
email box.
--
Oded
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Cynical OT (was: webmail client, NG?)
No useful info in this email.
Oded Arbel wrote:
(its been at version 0.1-rc2 {yes, an RC for a 0. release} for like
forever),
I have to say it all depends on how much testing it received.
They have online demos
you can play with at their site, including using them to access your own
email box.
Oh, so they collect actual email passwords now :-) Must be the next
great thing.
It kinda reminds me of Schnier's idea to set up a site for letting you
know how secure your password is (i.e. - you type in a password, and it
tells you how secure it is), and using that for collecting people's
passwords.
Shachar
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Re: Cynical OT (was: webmail client, NG?)
On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 13:35 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: No useful info in this email. Depending on how you look at it - to paraphrase Thomas Edison: I haven't failed, I found 3 things that do not work. Aside, if you're not into the AJAX $h!t then squirrel mail is as good a choice as any. Oded Arbel wrote: They have online demos you can play with at their site, including using them to access your own email box. Oh, so they collect actual email passwords now :-) Must be the next great thing. Sorry if it wasn't clear from my email - I would not recommend anyone to use said service to access important email. I have several throw away email boxes for purposes like these, I assume most people have that. -- Oded = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
On Mon, December 31, 2007 12:56, Ira Abramov wrote: Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) .snip I`m checking RoundCube mail ( roundcube.net ). A young project. I`m struggling to add RTL support similar to Thunderbird`s addon BidiMailUI. BTW - Zimbra Desktop looks very promising but it`s gigantic and lacks general IMAP support nor RTL support, until it`s finale release, at least. --- Moish To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: webmail client, NG?
Ira Why is gmail annoying you? I can't believe you want to host your own mail server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle with SA and the rest of the ball of wax. br Danny On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail? IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by the esteemed users of this group :-) Thanks, Ira. -- Reporting Live Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Danny Lieberman Reduce risk with practical threat analysis- visit us at www.ptatechnologies.com All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one. Occam's razor www.software.co.il/blog - Israeli software, music and mountain biking www.software.co.il/pta - Download a free copy of the PTA-Practical threat analysis tool Tel Aviv + 972 3 610-9750 US + 1-301-841-7122 Cell + 972 54 447-1114
