Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[gregebert]

Here's the current status as of April 16, 2024. The test display has been 
running for a few weeks now at low intensity, using my waveform generator 
(1kHz) and a reverse-wired power transformer. I'm not noticing any 
degradation of intensity yet.

The inverter design has stalled for a bit while I wrap-up another clock 
(uses IEE projection-type displays). SPICE simulations of the inverter are 
showing a lot of ringing, which has been a challenge to get rid of, and 
there is a mysterious asymmetry into the transformer. This is causing 
imbalance, and that results in a net DC current, which is not only wasteful 
but also will cause saturation of the transformer. I'm also trending to use 
a triangular waveform, rather than sinusoidal, because it results in 
constant current (well, at least theoretically...) for the display.

Opto triacs are easier to use than regular ones, so I expect to go with 
those and drive them from a serial chain of shift registers. I standardized 
a serial link for my projects using 10-conductor ribbon cable, using the 
same signals/levels as used by the HV5532 (and similar) drivers. Each 
IEL-0-IV display is 8 segments, so 48 bits will control a 6-character 
display via direct-drive. I wont use, or attempt to use, multiplexing. 
Adding more characters is as simple as adding more serial devices. Right 
now I think I will have 2 displays per board; keeping the PCBs less than 
100mm/side (4 inches) keeps the price way down at PCBWay. A run of 10 
boards is around 14 USD ($5 total for the 10 boards, $9 for shipping).

As far as controlling the serial link, I use a Raspberry Pi Zero W. I'm 
sure any controller will work as long as you use a level-shifter for the 
serial interface.

On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 2:56:07 PM UTC-7 Nick Andrews wrote:

> Okay, so after realizing my search parameters were off, I found and bought 
> 10 of the same 'Predator" style EL displays.  Supposed to be here in 5 or 
> so weeks...  So I'll be interested.
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 2:55 AM Michail Wilson  wrote:
>
>> That is the type of burn in I have experienced as well.
>>
>> Not just on the small one you have, but on the various sizes.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Michail Wilson
>>
>> 206-920-6312 <(206)%20920-6312>
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
>> Of *gregebert
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 2, 2024 11:23 AM
>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on 
>> electroluminescent display projects ?
>>
>>  
>>
>> There are some on Ebay right now (I have no affiliation with the seller). 
>> Do a  search for IEL-0. I suggest shopping around for awhile to get the 
>> best price. I'm a bit nervous about the IEL-0-IV displays. After 10 days of 
>> basic testing, my test device has noticeable burning, though I cant confirm 
>> if the luminous output has dropped. I need to build a photometer and do 
>> more testing. Prior to using it, the entire screen was the same color.
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:46:06 AM UTC-7 Nick Andrews wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be 
>> interested in the project if I had some! 
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024, 5:24 PM gregebert  wrote:
>>
>> Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV 
>> power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't 
>> sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a 
>> modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin 
>> ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your 
>> favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2 
>> inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.
>>
>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
>>
>> I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my 
>> displays though. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>
>> I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my 
>> Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller 
>> IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and 
>> will make unusual clocks.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it appears 
>> to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's not lit 
>> very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or not. 
>> Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[Nick Andrews]

Okay, so after realizing my search parameters were off, I found and bought
10 of the same 'Predator" style EL displays.  Supposed to be here in 5 or
so weeks...  So I'll be interested.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 2:55 AM Michail Wilson  wrote:

> That is the type of burn in I have experienced as well.
>
> Not just on the small one you have, but on the various sizes.
>
>
>
> Michail Wilson
>
> 206-920-6312
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  *On
> Behalf Of *gregebert
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 2, 2024 11:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on
> electroluminescent display projects ?
>
>
>
> There are some on Ebay right now (I have no affiliation with the seller).
> Do a  search for IEL-0. I suggest shopping around for awhile to get the
> best price. I'm a bit nervous about the IEL-0-IV displays. After 10 days of
> basic testing, my test device has noticeable burning, though I cant confirm
> if the luminous output has dropped. I need to build a photometer and do
> more testing. Prior to using it, the entire screen was the same color.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:46:06 AM UTC-7 Nick Andrews wrote:
>
> Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be
> interested in the project if I had some!
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024, 5:24 PM gregebert  wrote:
>
> Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV
> power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't
> sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a
> modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin
> ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your
> favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2
> inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.
>
> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
>
> I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my
> displays though.
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>
> I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my Soviet-era
> electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller IEL-0-IV, and a
> much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and will make
> unusual clocks.
>
>
>
> I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it appears
> to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's not lit
> very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or not.
> Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page document
> page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up regarding
> burn-in.
>
>
>
> If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please
> chime in so we can start a discussion here.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[Richard Scales]

.. but if needed - I have a small stash of those  - I note that they are no 
longer available from Adafuit.
 - Richard


On Friday 5 April 2024 at 08:56:33 UTC+1 Paul Andrew Lafranchise wrote:

> Opto-triacs seemed to work fine for my segment driver setup (which I think 
> is essentially the same as Richard's). I would also be interested in the 
> details of the power supply you put together. The Adafruit "blue" EL 
> power supply  
> I used is essentially a black (blue?  :-)) box and I'd love to replace it 
> with something I understand better and have built myself.  
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:08 PM Richard Scales  
> wrote:
>
>> I have a board which drives the displays just fine, opt triacs which I 
>> drive from a PIC using the B-7971 Smart Socket code (slightly modified) and 
>> i have had great success using the 'blue' EL power supply from Adafruit (I 
>> think that's where they came from - I bought a bag of them).
>>
>> For the sake of doing it right I would be interested in some of your HV 
>> EL power supplies - I am broadly assuming that the will perform better than 
>> what I have used so far.
>>  - Richard
>>
>> On Monday 1 April 2024 at 23:24:17 UTC+1 gregebert wrote:
>>
>>> Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV 
>>> power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't 
>>> sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a 
>>> modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin 
>>> ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your 
>>> favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2 
>>> inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
>>>
 I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my 
 displays though. 

 On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:

> I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my 
> Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller 
> IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, 
> and 
> will make unusual clocks.
>
> I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it 
> appears to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's 
> not lit very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or 
> not. Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page 
> document page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up 
> regarding burn-in.
>
> If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please 
> chime in so we can start a discussion here.
>
> [image: electrolum.jpg]
>
 -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/c874d288-338e-43cc-9748-2d99aea71e59n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[Paul Andrew Lafranchise]

Opto-triacs seemed to work fine for my segment driver setup (which I think
is essentially the same as Richard's). I would also be interested in the
details of the power supply you put together. The Adafruit "blue" EL power
supply  I used
is essentially a black (blue?  :-)) box and I'd love to replace it with
something I understand better and have built myself.

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:08 PM Richard Scales 
wrote:

> I have a board which drives the displays just fine, opt triacs which I
> drive from a PIC using the B-7971 Smart Socket code (slightly modified) and
> i have had great success using the 'blue' EL power supply from Adafruit (I
> think that's where they came from - I bought a bag of them).
>
> For the sake of doing it right I would be interested in some of your HV EL
> power supplies - I am broadly assuming that the will perform better than
> what I have used so far.
>  - Richard
>
> On Monday 1 April 2024 at 23:24:17 UTC+1 gregebert wrote:
>
>> Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV
>> power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't
>> sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a
>> modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin
>> ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your
>> favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2
>> inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.
>>
>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my
>>> displays though.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>>
 I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my
 Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller
 IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and
 will make unusual clocks.

 I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it
 appears to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's
 not lit very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or
 not. Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page
 document page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up
 regarding burn-in.

 If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please
 chime in so we can start a discussion here.

 [image: electrolum.jpg]

>>> --
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> 
> .
>

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[Michail Wilson]

That is the type of burn in I have experienced as well.
Not just on the small one you have, but on the various sizes.

Michail Wilson
206-920-6312

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
gregebert
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 11:23 AM
To: neonixie-l 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent 
display projects ?

There are some on Ebay right now (I have no affiliation with the seller). Do a  
search for IEL-0. I suggest shopping around for awhile to get the best price. 
I'm a bit nervous about the IEL-0-IV displays. After 10 days of basic testing, 
my test device has noticeable burning, though I cant confirm if the luminous 
output has dropped. I need to build a photometer and do more testing. Prior to 
using it, the entire screen was the same color.

[cid:image001.jpg@01DA8507.FF65FC30]

On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:46:06 AM UTC-7 Nick Andrews wrote:
Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be interested 
in the project if I had some!

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024, 5:24 PM gregebert  wrote:
Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV power 
supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't sized the 
board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a modular design 
approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin ribbon-cable serial bus I 
call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your favorite controller to the 
IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2 inputs, 5 outputs), these boards 
will be workable for you.
On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my displays 
though.
On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my Soviet-era 
electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller IEL-0-IV, and a much 
larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and will make unusual clocks.

I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it appears to be 
burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's not lit very bright, 
so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or not. Documentation is 
pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page document page-by-page thru 
google translate; so far nothing has come up regarding burn-in.

If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please chime in 
so we can start a discussion here.

[https://groups.google.com/u/1/group/neonixie-l/attach/e45ea79bdaf5/electrolum.jpg?part=0.1=1]
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[gregebert]

There are some on Ebay right now (I have no affiliation with the seller). 
Do a  search for IEL-0. I suggest shopping around for awhile to get the 
best price. I'm a bit nervous about the IEL-0-IV displays. After 10 days of 
basic testing, my test device has noticeable burning, though I cant confirm 
if the luminous output has dropped. I need to build a photometer and do 
more testing. Prior to using it, the entire screen was the same color.

[image: burned_IEL-0-IV.jpg]

On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:46:06 AM UTC-7 Nick Andrews wrote:

> Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be 
> interested in the project if I had some! 
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024, 5:24 PM gregebert  wrote:
>
>> Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV 
>> power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't 
>> sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a 
>> modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin 
>> ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your 
>> favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2 
>> inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.
>>
>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my 
>>> displays though. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>>
 I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my 
 Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller 
 IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and 
 will make unusual clocks.

 I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it 
 appears to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's 
 not lit very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or 
 not. Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page 
 document page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up 
 regarding burn-in.

 If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please 
 chime in so we can start a discussion here.

 [image: electrolum.jpg]

>>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/d07a2249-b58a-4b4b-8769-f04ad827a80bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[Nick Andrews]

Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be
interested in the project if I had some!

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024, 5:24 PM gregebert  wrote:

> Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV
> power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't
> sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a
> modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin
> ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your
> favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2
> inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.
>
> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:
>
>> I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my
>> displays though.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>
>>> I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my
>>> Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller
>>> IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and
>>> will make unusual clocks.
>>>
>>> I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it appears
>>> to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's not lit
>>> very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or not.
>>> Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page document
>>> page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up regarding
>>> burn-in.
>>>
>>> If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please
>>> chime in so we can start a discussion here.
>>>
>>> [image: electrolum.jpg]
>>>
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