Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
My .02 - Pretty much every Open Source project I've been involved in has two lists set up like this, once they get off the ground. Like others have said, it doesn't mean the groups separate, only that the discussions are easier to follow... Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 10:11 -0500, Anne Gentle wrote: Link is: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators Since you mention this list, I was asked in Boston by the 'spring-cleaning-department': why do we have some lists that seem abandoned on http://lists.openstack.org/ and the 'main' list on launchpad? Google seems to find http://lists.openstack.org/ easily but they're not very used and may give false impressions about the project. /stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
I would prefer to keep the list together. I do not think the volume of either dev or user conversations is too oppressive to the other, and I would like to avoid wither group being neglected by the other. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 7, 2011, at 2:16 AM, Wayne A. Walls wa...@openstack.org wrote: I remember having this discussion at the Cactus design summit, and the reoccurring theme was dev vs sysads/deployment. I was in favor of a split list then, but over the past year my stance has changed a bit. I don't know if I feel that OpenStack has reached the level where deployment knowledge is absent of dev knowhow. Deployers of OS are typically in irc/ml/forums pasting stack traces, working through problems with dev help. Once we start seeing more public deployments, reference architectures, etc, then maybe? Do devs think there is too much noise on the main ml? What has the impact been on splitting the irc channels out? To me, I just idle in two places now, but did that really have a big impact? I tend to agree with John's points, I don't want the presumably easiest ml to consume to be neglected by some of the brightest minds in the project. Thanks, Wayne Sent from my iPhone On Oct 6, 2011, at 10:11 PM, John Purrier j...@openstack.org wrote: My 2 cents... The traffic on the list is less than 100 messages per day, of that about 35% is bug notifications. I wonder if we redirect the developer oriented email on the list whether we will have 10 messages a day on the original openstack mailing list. Stefano, can you elaborate on why the developers feel a split is necessary at this point? Most (if not all) of the traffic is developer oriented, what is the problem we want to solve? Thanks, John -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+john=openstack@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+john=openstack@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Stefano Maffulli Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 1:35 PM To: openstack Subject: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list Jesse Andrews (anotherjesse)(Rackspace) Jonathan Bryce (jbryce)(Rackspace) Devin Carlen (devcamcar)(Nebula) Thierry Carrez (ttx)(Rackspace) John Dickinson (notmyname)(Rackspace)) Vish Ishaya (vishy)(Rackspace) Josh Kearney (jk0)(Rackspace) Joshua McKenty (jmckenty)(Piston) Ewan Mellor (ewanmellor)(Citrix) Jay Pipes (jaypipes)(Rackspace) John Purrier (johnpur)(HP) Monty Taylor (mordred)(Rackspace) Paul Voccio (pvo)(Rackspace) Ziad Sawalha (zns)(Rackspace) Hello folks, I've been talking to quite a few developers participating to the Design Summit and a recurring request I got is to create a new mailing list for the OpenStack developers to meet and discuss. There is also a concern that putting developers in another list will decrease their attention to the bigger part of the community. I believe this is a serious concern and that it's going to be our role as leaders of this community to prevent this from happening. I'd suggest to dedicate the existing mailing list for discussions about usage of OpenStack (deployment and development of applications on top of OpenStack API) and create a new one only for developers of OpenStack. Developers in this context should be developers of openstack projects (nova, swift, quantum, etc). If there is no opposition to this proposal in the next days, I'll proceed and create openstack-dev and invite developers to subscribe to it. cheers, stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
I'd prefer not to split the [OpenStack] list just yet but promote [Openstack-operators] and maybe rename it Openstack-ops. Might sound counterintuitive but seems to provide for the stated goals of welcoming new users. It is getting more posts. Link is: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators Anne Gentle Content Stacker a...@openstack.org On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 22:11 -0400, John Purrier wrote: Stefano, can you elaborate on why the developers feel a split is necessary at this point? Most (if not all) of the traffic is developer oriented, what is the problem we want to solve? the general feedback I had is that the volume of messages on the existing list may be too intimidating for newbies. Welcoming new users and help them launch their OpenStack installations is a major objective for the Essex cycle. I understand the concerns voiced by you and others on the list and I agree with you all. I also have little doubts that the volume of email messages on this list is too high for new users. We want to have a place where new users feel welcome, ask simple questions and find answers. We don't want to create a new place where new users can be ignored. What do you think would be better to solve this? /stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
+1 Devin On Oct 7, 2011, at 7:16 AM, John Dickinson m...@not.mn wrote: I would prefer to keep the list together. I do not think the volume of either dev or user conversations is too oppressive to the other, and I would like to avoid wither group being neglected by the other. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 7, 2011, at 2:16 AM, Wayne A. Walls wa...@openstack.org wrote: I remember having this discussion at the Cactus design summit, and the reoccurring theme was dev vs sysads/deployment. I was in favor of a split list then, but over the past year my stance has changed a bit. I don't know if I feel that OpenStack has reached the level where deployment knowledge is absent of dev knowhow. Deployers of OS are typically in irc/ml/forums pasting stack traces, working through problems with dev help. Once we start seeing more public deployments, reference architectures, etc, then maybe? Do devs think there is too much noise on the main ml? What has the impact been on splitting the irc channels out? To me, I just idle in two places now, but did that really have a big impact? I tend to agree with John's points, I don't want the presumably easiest ml to consume to be neglected by some of the brightest minds in the project. Thanks, Wayne Sent from my iPhone On Oct 6, 2011, at 10:11 PM, John Purrier j...@openstack.org wrote: My 2 cents... The traffic on the list is less than 100 messages per day, of that about 35% is bug notifications. I wonder if we redirect the developer oriented email on the list whether we will have 10 messages a day on the original openstack mailing list. Stefano, can you elaborate on why the developers feel a split is necessary at this point? Most (if not all) of the traffic is developer oriented, what is the problem we want to solve? Thanks, John -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+john=openstack@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+john=openstack@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Stefano Maffulli Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 1:35 PM To: openstack Subject: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list Jesse Andrews (anotherjesse)(Rackspace) Jonathan Bryce (jbryce)(Rackspace) Devin Carlen (devcamcar)(Nebula) Thierry Carrez (ttx)(Rackspace) John Dickinson (notmyname)(Rackspace)) Vish Ishaya (vishy)(Rackspace) Josh Kearney (jk0)(Rackspace) Joshua McKenty (jmckenty)(Piston) Ewan Mellor (ewanmellor)(Citrix) Jay Pipes (jaypipes)(Rackspace) John Purrier (johnpur)(HP) Monty Taylor (mordred)(Rackspace) Paul Voccio (pvo)(Rackspace) Ziad Sawalha (zns)(Rackspace) Hello folks, I've been talking to quite a few developers participating to the Design Summit and a recurring request I got is to create a new mailing list for the OpenStack developers to meet and discuss. There is also a concern that putting developers in another list will decrease their attention to the bigger part of the community. I believe this is a serious concern and that it's going to be our role as leaders of this community to prevent this from happening. I'd suggest to dedicate the existing mailing list for discussions about usage of OpenStack (deployment and development of applications on top of OpenStack API) and create a new one only for developers of OpenStack. Developers in this context should be developers of openstack projects (nova, swift, quantum, etc). If there is no opposition to this proposal in the next days, I'll proceed and create openstack-dev and invite developers to subscribe to it. cheers, stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
Leandor Reox wrote: How is the rest of the community going to participate or leave their opinion on why some design path is going to be taken, or maybe leave their feedback of why an arquitecture change is going to be made. Will be an open list ? or just for few ? Will be launchapd the only way to interact with the developers ? The openstack-operators lists, that i thinks is for usage and implementation already exist and its pretty abandoned. There are ultimately three different discussion threads that need to be addressed: * Ops - help forum for users, especially newbies, who need questions answered. * Design - discussion of new blueprints, evolution of the the project, discussion of performance tradeoffs. * Nuts-and-bolts development - commits, synchronization of commits, new bug resolution. Only the last thread would benefit from not encouraging all interested to take part in the discussion. Given that three mailing lists would be a bit excessive, the question is whether to separate the ops Forum (mostly for newbies) from the other two, or to separate nuts and bolts of code production from the general public that won't be attempting to build OpenStack anytime this week. My only strong preference here is that design discussions are not steered to forums that are intended only for those involved in coding OpenStack on a daily basis. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
Leandro Reox wrote: How is the rest of the community going to participate or leave their opinion on why some design path is going to be taken, or maybe leave their feedback of why an arquitecture change is going to be made. Will be an open list ? or just for few ? I think the idea is not to separate users from developers, but rather to separate developer topics from user topics, so that people interested in just one category can reduce their traffic. So the rest of the community can still participate in ML discussions about architecture changes on the dev ML. There are advantages and drawbacks in both setups, I have no strong opinion either way. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
Stefano, How is the rest of the community going to participate or leave their opinion on why some design path is going to be taken, or maybe leave their feedback of why an arquitecture change is going to be made. Will be an open list ? or just for few ? Will be launchapd the only way to interact with the developers ? . The openstack-operators lists, that i thinks is for usage and implementation already exist and its pretty abandoned. For us, with a pretty big openstack schema running in production, participating on this mailing list, is critical for future architecture designs decisions ( multi cluster zoning, ram based scheduling, nova-volumes farm ) . And i believe that splitting the list will be end up o non-attention at all. We enjoy a lot moderating and helping out on the forums, but when we hit a desing flaw or a major doubt, probable hitting some strange issue, here is were we get quickiest te best and right answer (launchpad questions could take a whle, and not everyone is checking registered issues everyday, and an email is simpler) Dont wanna sound like a change-ressitance guy buy this are just my concerns Best Regard ! LeanReox On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: I would not be opposed to this. I think we may have reached that critical mass where a split makes sense now. -jay On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: Jesse Andrews (anotherjesse)(Rackspace) Jonathan Bryce (jbryce)(Rackspace) Devin Carlen (devcamcar)(Nebula) Thierry Carrez (ttx)(Rackspace) John Dickinson (notmyname)(Rackspace)) Vish Ishaya (vishy)(Rackspace) Josh Kearney (jk0)(Rackspace) Joshua McKenty (jmckenty)(Piston) Ewan Mellor (ewanmellor)(Citrix) Jay Pipes (jaypipes)(Rackspace) John Purrier (johnpur)(HP) Monty Taylor (mordred)(Rackspace) Paul Voccio (pvo)(Rackspace) Ziad Sawalha (zns)(Rackspace) Hello folks, I've been talking to quite a few developers participating to the Design Summit and a recurring request I got is to create a new mailing list for the OpenStack developers to meet and discuss. There is also a concern that putting developers in another list will decrease their attention to the bigger part of the community. I believe this is a serious concern and that it's going to be our role as leaders of this community to prevent this from happening. I'd suggest to dedicate the existing mailing list for discussions about usage of OpenStack (deployment and development of applications on top of OpenStack API) and create a new one only for developers of OpenStack. Developers in this context should be developers of openstack projects (nova, swift, quantum, etc). If there is no opposition to this proposal in the next days, I'll proceed and create openstack-dev and invite developers to subscribe to it. cheers, stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list
My 2 cents... The traffic on the list is less than 100 messages per day, of that about 35% is bug notifications. I wonder if we redirect the developer oriented email on the list whether we will have 10 messages a day on the original openstack mailing list. Stefano, can you elaborate on why the developers feel a split is necessary at this point? Most (if not all) of the traffic is developer oriented, what is the problem we want to solve? Thanks, John -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+john=openstack@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+john=openstack@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Stefano Maffulli Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 1:35 PM To: openstack Subject: [Openstack] Creating openstack-dev mailing list Jesse Andrews (anotherjesse)(Rackspace) Jonathan Bryce (jbryce)(Rackspace) Devin Carlen (devcamcar)(Nebula) Thierry Carrez (ttx)(Rackspace) John Dickinson (notmyname)(Rackspace)) Vish Ishaya (vishy)(Rackspace) Josh Kearney (jk0)(Rackspace) Joshua McKenty (jmckenty)(Piston) Ewan Mellor (ewanmellor)(Citrix) Jay Pipes (jaypipes)(Rackspace) John Purrier (johnpur)(HP) Monty Taylor (mordred)(Rackspace) Paul Voccio (pvo)(Rackspace) Ziad Sawalha (zns)(Rackspace) Hello folks, I've been talking to quite a few developers participating to the Design Summit and a recurring request I got is to create a new mailing list for the OpenStack developers to meet and discuss. There is also a concern that putting developers in another list will decrease their attention to the bigger part of the community. I believe this is a serious concern and that it's going to be our role as leaders of this community to prevent this from happening. I'd suggest to dedicate the existing mailing list for discussions about usage of OpenStack (deployment and development of applications on top of OpenStack API) and create a new one only for developers of OpenStack. Developers in this context should be developers of openstack projects (nova, swift, quantum, etc). If there is no opposition to this proposal in the next days, I'll proceed and create openstack-dev and invite developers to subscribe to it. cheers, stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
