Re: [RBW] DIY build or order complete?

[J J]

Yes Bill, I was thinking the same. A $100 build fee is remarkable.

Around DC, most “local bike shops” will charge *more* for a build than 
Rivendell does, and the results are still a crap shoot based on too many 
experiences. They also charge extra for things Rivendell’s builds include, 
like full frame prep, facing, chasing, tapping as necessary, FrameSaver 
spray, etc etc etc. 
On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 6:08:17 PM UTC-4 nca...@gmail.com wrote:

> My husband-and-wife run LIBS is building my one and only bike (a Homer) 
> from parts and charging me $100 for it, the price they charge for a full 
> tune-up. They also charge $60/hour for a la carte services, as you point 
> out. I am happy to recommend them to anyone in the Boston metro. They 
> tastefully rehab older steel frames with new[er] parts and sell them for 
> $200-$400; they only sell steel frame bikes and operate out of a used car 
> lot's garage. Their inventory is like 3 new Surlys and maybe an All-State 
> or two. The rest are rehabs and they are absolute professionals about 
> everything they do. Mine isn't the first Riv they've built from parts 
> either. Perhaps the bike shops around you are a bit less affordable or have 
> to charge more to account for higher overhead, etc.  
>
> I'm not saying that Riv is *gouging*, I'm stating facts that there are 
> more affordable places to buy the exact same parts and more affordable 
> shops to build a bike. That is no way a slight on Riv, it's  just facts. 
> That said, I'm glad they promote and make a great margin on those 
> good-cheap parts and builds because I'm grateful for what that has allowed 
> them to do for bicycling as a whole. I appreciate their bikes and ethos, or 
> else I wouldn't be on this forum. 
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 5:44:26 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> "Your LIBS can likely assemble for ~$100 or less rather than Riv's $300 
>> charge"
>>
>> I'm going to call BS on this.  I sincerely doubt that there is a bike 
>> shop on earth, with a mechanic experienced-enough that I'd want them 
>> building my bike, who would quote under $100 for a frame-up bike assembly, 
>> when I've bought none of the parts from them and didn't buy the frame from 
>> them.  It's a 3-4 hour job.  Any mechanic worth their salt is billing $1 a 
>> minute for the shop to keep the lights on.  
>>
>> There are bargains to be had out there, to be sure.  If you luck-out and 
>> find wheels on sale, good job.  If you know how to find used parts for 
>> cheap, terrific.  The existence of cheap used parts does not make Rivendell 
>> a price gouger, though.  It's especially ungenerous to imply that, 
>> particularly when Rivendell is unique in their praise and promotion of 
>> good-cheap parts (like the Acera rear mech).  That's my opinion.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 11:26:21 AM UTC-7 Robert Calton wrote:
>>
>>> I'd order the parts and then have your local independent bike shop 
>>> assemble it, because ordering everything yourself is going to save you a 
>>> considerable amount of money if you want the *exact* same parts build 
>>> that Riv would put on. If you decide you want to spend the same amount of 
>>> money as a Riv build package, you'll get *much* better parts. Your LIBS 
>>> can likely assemble for ~$100 or less rather than Riv's $300 charge. Check 
>>> out the builds on Blue Lug and have fun shopping. 
>>>
>>> I don't want to diss Riv's part pricing, but you can find better prices 
>>> elsewhere even for the same components. For example, Riv is selling the WI 
>>> MI5/Atlas wheelset for over $1000 
>>> ,
>>>  
>>> then tack on a shipping fee and tax. I bought the *exact same wheelset* 
>>> (with 
>>> DT Swiss double-butted spokes) for $750 hand-built by ProWheelBuilder (they 
>>> had a 15% off WI sell last month). No tax in my state, no build fee, free 
>>> shipping. For Riv's cost for an Acera rear mech, you can get a gently used 
>>> Deore XT. And so on. 
>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 1:42:20 PM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:
>>>
 Patrick and others surely remember this one…unless rewritten mostly way 
 out date now. But that’s about where/when we started.

 It’s a long road full of triumphs and disasters. Add ‘em, more triumphs 
 for sure. That’s how/why we’re still here 浪

 Jock




 On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 8:32 AM Michael  wrote:

> Hi all, 
> Ordered a Sam as my first Riv but unsure whether or not I should 
> tackle building it up myself or just let Riv have at it. I have never 
> built 
> a bike before but I do have a workshop and am good with 
> tools/mechanically 
> inclined. 
>
> Are there any specific steps that you would absolutely not recommend a 
> beginner attempt? By the time i purchase specialty tools, it may have 
> been 
> wiser to just 

Re: [RBW] Re: DIY build or order complete?

[J J]

I would ask Rivendell to build it up for you. In fact, that’s exactly what 
I did with my recent Hunqapillar restoration. 


I have many — but not all — of the tools to do a full build. Put aside that 
fact that buying all the necessary tools would cost more than Rivendell’s 
build fee. More important than cost is that I trust Rivendell to do the 
build right a hell of a lot more than I trust myself (or any local bike 
shop, but that’s a story for another thread). I’d rather experiment and do 
trial and error on a different bike.

Rivendell’s build was, as Philip said, dialed in beautifully. I took it out 
on a long ride for the first time yesterday and it was sublime.

Jim

On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 12:38:30 PM UTC-4 philip@gmail.com wrote:

> Get them to build it for you. It’ll be exactly what it should be.
>
> But then slowly purchase the (high quality) tools required to maintain and 
> replace components over time. 
>
> That way you’ll get the best of both worlds.
>
> And the best part of completing a bike build is changing stuff in the 
> weeks and months that follow anyway, as you discover quirks, problems, and 
> preferences!
>
> That way you’ll be ready in a few months and a few thousand miles, a few 
> different build iterations, to confidentially build your next bike from 
> scratch.
>
> Also, bolting on and installing all the parts on a frame and fork is easy 
> enough. And I would disagree with an earlier reply, installing headsets and 
> BBs are certainly things a novice with access to the Park Tools YouTube 
> channel can complete to a proficient degree.
>
> It’s the combination of getting all those parts of the bicycle working 
> together harmoniously,
> at optimal performance with minimal aesthetic sacrifice, that is the magic 
> and witchcraft of the professional bicycle mechanic.
>
> Which is why I’d have Riv build you this first one.
>
> Every bike I rode there recently was dialed-in to perfection. And I have 
> multiple friends who have said the same about their own experiences riding 
> demo Riv’s around the lot.
>
>
> P. W.
> ~
> (917) 514-2207
> ~
>
>
>
>
> On May 28, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Ken Yokanovich  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> IMHO, your greatest challenge will be finding and collecting all of the 
> parts necessary to build the bike. I think the key issue being 
> compatibility, when to ignore and when to respect it. Rivendell World 
> Headquarters does an fabulous job when it comes to mechanical wisdom and 
> experience with what works/doesn't. Unless you have experience and a home 
> shop stocked with components and incidentals, I think you will probably 
> wind up spending more building a complete bike yourself. (Even excluding 
> the cost for specialized tools that may be required.)
>
> I strongly encourage you to explore bicycle maintenance on your own, 
> perhaps experiment on an existing used bike. I was VERY young when 
> beginning my bicycle (dis)/assembly and repair. I destroyed a lot of parts 
> in my ignorance and learning experience. Even after YEARS of experience, I 
> learned TONS more later when attending professional training and continued 
> to learn from co-workers and experience with almost every repair while 
> employed as a professional bike mechanic.  No longer working in the 
> industry, I am still always learning. 
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 10:32:14 AM UTC-5 Michael wrote:
>
>> Hi all, 
>> Ordered a Sam as my first Riv but unsure whether or not I should tackle 
>> building it up myself or just let Riv have at it. I have never built a bike 
>> before but I do have a workshop and am good with tools/mechanically 
>> inclined. 
>>
>> Are there any specific steps that you would absolutely not recommend a 
>> beginner attempt? By the time i purchase specialty tools, it may have been 
>> wiser to just order it complete? 
>>
>> Let me know what you guys think, I really don't want to do something 
>> stupid!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Bike Day: My Little Platy

[J J]

Congratulations! It’s great expression of your personality and vibe! 

On Thursday, May 23, 2024 at 10:36:17 AM UTC-4 Valerie Yates wrote:

> Beautiful! That is a forever bike. I’m impressed by your creativity and 
> attention to every detail. I am also curious for your impressions on the 
> sizes once you’ve had time to compare.
>
> Val in Boulder, CO 
>
> On Thursday, May 23, 2024 at 8:06:30 AM UTC-6 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
>> So glad you posted this here, as the Insta vid is so fun. Congratulations!
>>
>> On Thursday, May 23, 2024 at 9:56:58 AM UTC-4 SallyG wrote:
>>
>>> What a wonder! Absolutely terrific...and I loved hearing the backstories!
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 6:08 AM ian m  wrote:
>>>
 Love the iridescent bits, the anodizer really nailed it

 On Thursday, May 23, 2024 at 8:51:27 AM UTC-4 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> When "too much" is "just right." This bike will make you (and anyone 
> who sees it) smile. Who could not smile at the sight on a My Little Platy 
> coming down the road! I hope you have many joyous miles riding, and that 
> some of them are in California so we can see it in person!
>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2024 at 8:43:11 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Finally. New. Bike. Day.
>>
>> This bike was a long time coming. I bought the frame in November 
>> (November!) and have waited this long for the plethora of specialty 
>> parts 
>> to arrive.
>>
>> Purple is a fun color; it never takes itself too seriously. It goes 
>> with most other colors, which is what led me to choose…all the colors. 
>>
>> The theme for this Platypus is: 80s My Little Pony. I call the bike 
>> My Little Platy. 
>>
>> The bike is a 50cm Rivendell Platypus with 650b wheels; it can be 
>> taken on Amtrak and bus racks, which is something its 55cm siblings 
>> cannot 
>> do. I put fat tires on it so it can handle gravel. My Gravel & Travel 
>> Platy.
>>
>> I adored My Little Pony in my girlhood, and my favorite ponies had 
>> rainbow hair. Why settle for just pink or blue when some ponies had ALL 
>> the 
>> colors? I started out this build incorporating a color here or there. (I 
>> had my Paul brakes already cerakoted in blues.) But while looking for 
>> grips, I found Ergon oil slick clamps and had my revelation: I wanted 
>> oil 
>> slick everywhere I could get it. 
>>
>> Because oil slick has ALL the colors.
>>
>> All the makers of these parts worked with me to make this bike 
>> happen. They sent their beautiful products to me and let me alter them 
>> in 
>> wild, saturated, living color. I don’t know if any of them understood 
>> why I 
>> was going all out like this. All of them were men, save one - the 
>> anodizer. 
>> You can see her work in the levers, chain rings, cranks, and bottom 
>> bracket. She understood the assignment. 
>>
>> I live with 3 men and none of them give the bike their stamp of 
>> approval. The Lone Wolf will howl, alright. I remain steadfast in my 
>> adoration of this bike because it does something for me. Takes me back 
>> to 
>> my simple, happy 80s and 90s childhood. If when you were a little girl 
>> (most of your were not), your friend had a dress-up closet and you could 
>> choose from her lavish collection of finery to wear at playtime, and you 
>> just came out WEARING ALL OF IT, well, that is this Platypus.
>>
>> Thank you to everyone at Analog Cycles, Paul Components, Ignite 
>> Components, Ashley Anodized It, Velocity USA and Pedal Bicycles for 
>> making 
>> this silly concept a real, tangible bicycle. And of course, thank you to 
>> Rivendell Bicycle Works, who makes the best bikes in the world.
>>
>> Please find my video link below.
>> Leah
>> https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7S3y0AufkX/?igsh=ZTk5amhhaTR2anQ=
>>
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>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto R50 saddlebag holders / Nitto Saddlebag Grip R50 — 2 available

[J J]

Just bumping this FS post. Please reach out directly if you're interested. 
Thanks!
On Saturday, April 6, 2024 at 9:48:00 AM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> Hi all. We're not going to use these so I'm looking to sell them. I think 
> there was chatter that these are not going to be produced anymore?
>
> Two available, and both include all hardware and Shimano XT quick release 
> skewer:
>
>- Brand new in package for $115
>- Lightly used and in excellent condition for $98 (the green frog tape 
>is to retain the pricey hardware)
>
> I can substitute a silver QR skewer if you prefer. Let me know via direct 
> message if you're interested. Shipping calculated by address. Thanks!
>
> Jim
>
> [image: Nitto R50 saddlebag holders.jpeg]
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Droptube Rivendell Custom 54cm

[J J]

Inspiring attitude and approach, thank you. 

On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 12:15:42 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> "Letting go of prized possessions can be incredibly hard." 
>
> Tbh it's not difficult for me. At this latter stage of my life (just 
> turned 62) I find myself at a place where it's the people and experiences I 
> treasure; it's the part I can enjoy in the moment, hold in my heart, and 
> keep as a lasting memory. Which is all very philosophical of me but this is 
> the Joe Bernard I am right now! ‍♂️
>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 9:08:44 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Wow, this is a surprise, Joe. Letting go of prized possessions can be 
>> incredibly hard. I admire the resolve. Congratulations on the decision. 
>>
>> Good luck with the sale. Whoever nabs that custom will be lucky to have 
>> it! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 11:52:39 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Ebike:
>>>
>>> I've owned/built a few but they don't fit what I'm looking to do now. I 
>>> still have my motorcycle endorsement and just took the Motorcycle Safety 
>>> Foundation course again with a friend to refresh my skills and see if it 
>>> was a thing I wanted to get back into (before I'm too old!). Motorcycles 
>>> are a culture up here in Lake County and I have a bunch of folks I can ride 
>>> with so I'm interested. 
>>>
>>> Joe "will still have a lovely Riv even after selling one" Bernard 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 8:38:36 AM UTC-7 bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Joe, why not get an e-bike?  I'm old and still ride regular bikes, 
>>>> but a lot of my friends, especially those in their 70s, have all gone to 
>>>> e-bikes. Specialized has arguably the best right now with its second 
>>>> battery and 100-120 mile range.
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck! 
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 5:23:30 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Motorcycle: I don't know. I think it's going to take a while to sell 
>>>>> my Riv at a price I can live with so I'm not real focused on the next 
>>>>> step 
>>>>> yet. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 4:55:23 AM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What motorcycle are you going to buy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 7:16:12 AM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh Joe...you waited so long for that bike. I do hope you don't 
>>>>>>> regret selling it. I'm sure it'll make someone happy. ...hmm might be a 
>>>>>>> good bike for Leah...54 cm MIGHT work for her
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 12:35:51 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $5k + shipping 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 10:25:24 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Divorce from reality forces sale, I've convinced myself I want a 
>>>>>>>>> motorcycle again. Details and geometry in Craigslist ad, I need to 
>>>>>>>>> take new 
>>>>>>>>> pics with current drivetrain, will post that album soon. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/clearlake-park-rivendell-custom-54cm/7744497816.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>>>>>>> joeremi62 gmail com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Droptube Rivendell Custom 54cm

[J J]

Wow, this is a surprise, Joe. Letting go of prized possessions can be 
incredibly hard. I admire the resolve. Congratulations on the decision. 

Good luck with the sale. Whoever nabs that custom will be lucky to have it! 

On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 11:52:39 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Ebike:
>
> I've owned/built a few but they don't fit what I'm looking to do now. I 
> still have my motorcycle endorsement and just took the Motorcycle Safety 
> Foundation course again with a friend to refresh my skills and see if it 
> was a thing I wanted to get back into (before I'm too old!). Motorcycles 
> are a culture up here in Lake County and I have a bunch of folks I can ride 
> with so I'm interested. 
>
> Joe "will still have a lovely Riv even after selling one" Bernard 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 8:38:36 AM UTC-7 bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hey Joe, why not get an e-bike?  I'm old and still ride regular bikes, 
>> but a lot of my friends, especially those in their 70s, have all gone to 
>> e-bikes. Specialized has arguably the best right now with its second 
>> battery and 100-120 mile range.
>>
>> Good Luck! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 5:23:30 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Motorcycle: I don't know. I think it's going to take a while to sell my 
>>> Riv at a price I can live with so I'm not real focused on the next step 
>>> yet. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 4:55:23 AM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>>>
 What motorcycle are you going to buy?



 On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 7:16:12 AM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Oh Joe...you waited so long for that bike. I do hope you don't regret 
> selling it. I'm sure it'll make someone happy. ...hmm might be a good 
> bike 
> for Leah...54 cm MIGHT work for her
>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 12:35:51 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> $5k + shipping 
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 10:25:24 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Divorce from reality forces sale, I've convinced myself I want a 
>>> motorcycle again. Details and geometry in Craigslist ad, I need to take 
>>> new 
>>> pics with current drivetrain, will post that album soon. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/clearlake-park-rivendell-custom-54cm/7744497816.html
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>> joeremi62 gmail com
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Hunqapillar 54 / 56 cm

[J J]

Thanks John and Johnny. Great to see the pics. 

John, some of those trails look pretty challenging, and like a blast. 

Johnny, I remember that salmon/pink/not sure what to call it Hunq from pics 
you posted a while back. It’s unforgettable for sure!

Thanks again. It’ll be nice to start a new “show us your Hunqapillar 
thread” soon. 

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 7:35:20 PM UTC-4 johnny@gmail.com wrote:

> Those are great John. Here's a quick pic of mine. That was earlier today, 
> when I had the albatross bars. I just switched to Nitto X Crumbworks KT 
> bar, which I have 1/2 installed
>
>
> [image: hunqapillar Medium.jpeg]
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 3:32:22 PM UTC-7 John M wrote:
>
>> I'm not Johnny but I used to have a 54 cm Hunqapillar in green and here's 
>> an assortment of pictures from tours in New Mexico and Colorado-- mostly 
>> the Great Divide Mountain  Bike route.  
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1jT4glIHwK2Ox5C8Eigq2Gcxa08MT_ARE?usp=sharing
>>
>> Its a great bike!
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 2:57:16 PM UTC-6 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Johnny, do you have any pics of your Hunq to share? Would love to 
>>> see some. (I hope this message is on this thread...?)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 12:11:28 PM UTC-4 johnny@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good luck Max. I was on the same quest when an amazing person from this 
>>>> group, Matthew Williams, saw one and let me know about it. I posted here 
>>>> every ~6 months letting folks know I was still looking and it took a few 
>>>> years to find one in my size, but it did happen eventually. It's a cool 
>>>> bike, for sure.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 5:44:41 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Test-rode one over a decade ago at BBB, shoulda bought it then. Maybe 
>>>>> someone's ready to pass theirs on to another good home?.. (Ideally just a 
>>>>> frameset)
>>>>>
>>>>> - Max "coulda shoulda woulda try againa" in A2
>>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Hunqapillar 54 / 56 cm

[J J]

Hey Johnny, do you have any pics of your Hunq to share? Would love to see 
some. (I hope this message is on this thread...?)

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 12:11:28 PM UTC-4 johnny@gmail.com wrote:

> Good luck Max. I was on the same quest when an amazing person from this 
> group, Matthew Williams, saw one and let me know about it. I posted here 
> every ~6 months letting folks know I was still looking and it took a few 
> years to find one in my size, but it did happen eventually. It's a cool 
> bike, for sure.
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 5:44:41 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>
>> Test-rode one over a decade ago at BBB, shoulda bought it then. Maybe 
>> someone's ready to pass theirs on to another good home?.. (Ideally just a 
>> frameset)
>>
>> - Max "coulda shoulda woulda try againa" in A2
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clean AND Buttery Shifting?

[J J]

I love this solution, and the story of what inspired it. I would run (or 
ride) in the opposite direction from any snake, much less touch it, but 
that sure is a beautiful creature.Thanks for the update and photos!

Jim

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 2:37:34 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:

> Solutions to problems often come from the strangest places; in this case, 
> from the back of a Sonoran gopher snake. Biomimicry, I believe it's called. 
>
> The puzzle of why my Hunq shifting is so much smoother than my Atlantis 
> has been filed away into 'things to subconsciously ponder' for quite some 
> time now.
>
> I've been riding in the Sonoran desert a great deal over the past month, 
> and the other day I came across another beautiful Sonoran gopher snake. 
> This species is harmless (unless you're a gopher) and very docile. While I 
> generally don't like to touch wildlife as it must stress them out, I made 
> an exception on this day after Sonya (the snake) and I sat together under a 
> palo verde tree for some time together. When it was time for her to slither 
> away, I gently touched her back and let her skin slide under my fingertips: 
> very smooth and surprisingly dry. And so slippery! 
> [image: IMG_3142.jpeg]
> I'm not completely sure why shifting popped into my head, but at that 
> moment I realized the solution to the puzzle: snakeskin-lined derailleur 
> cables! Faux snakeskin, of course!
>
> A closer inspection of the cable routing on my Atlantis revealed that the 
> primary difference between it and the Hunq is the absence of a plastic 
> cable guide on the bottom bracket shell; on the Toyo Atlantis there are two 
> steel fins between which the cable runs. 
>
> So, taking a cue from Sonya's scaly back, I cut two plastic strips from a 
> milk jug, placed them between the fins and under the cable, and voila! 
> Buttery smooth shifting just like my Hunq.
>
> While not necessarily an elegant solution, it certainly puts the 'fun' in 
> functional!
>
> [image: IMG_3266.JPG]
> Cheers, John
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 12:49:05 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Hey Brian. Both are Deore of the same vintage (ie. newish).
>>
>> Thanks, Laing. I'll give that a try. Always fun to experiment!
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 10:44:04 AM UTC-7 bmfo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> What are the two derailleurs on the bikes? The strength of the 
>>> derailleur spring also plays a part in how much force is needed to move the 
>>> shift lever. Same would go for the condition of the derailleur's pivots.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 12:40:55 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>>
 I have had multiple sets of Silver1 and Silver2 shifters. There can be 
 a lot of difference between "identical" shifters.

 You can try swapping shifters between bicycles and see if the feel 
 follows the shifter or stays with the bike.

 Laing

 On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:

> Thank you Piaw. This sounds like a fine option for the future when 
> cables need replacing. Right now everything is pretty new and in great 
> shape.
>
> I guess my question in this regard is more about why the shifting 
> would be different given that all the variables appear to be identical. 
> I'd 
> love to replicate the way my Hunq shifts in my Atlantis, and so am 
> curious 
> as to which variables I might be overlooking. 
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 8:16:05 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Consider the Shimano OT-SP41 coated shift cables: 
>> https://amzn.to/463eUM8
>>
>> I haven't needed them yet, but I did try the brake cable version and 
>> it's very impressive.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 6:28:07 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Eliot. Yes, cable housings are filed and run in very smooth 
>>> curves with no bends. I'll try easing off on the binding. 
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 5:35:58 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Also, did you file your cut housing ends?

 On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 5:34 PM Eliot Balogh  
 wrote:

> Hey John,
>
> It’s a little hard to tell over the internet but based on your 
> description, a few thoughts come to mind. Are your cable runs clean 
> with 
> easy bends ? Is your housing contaminated ? Can you ease off the 
> binding 
> bolt on your shifter ?
>
> I have always avoided lubing my cables out of fear of attracting 
> dirt. 
>
> Eliot 
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 3:15 PM John Rinker  
> wrote:
>
>> Both my Hunqapillar and Atlantis shift cleanly and, given the 
>> state of the rider on a given day, precisely. 

[RBW] Eric M.'s new video: Shop tour, favorite workshops, tool organization and my next bicycle build

[J J]

So good, a pleasure to watch. Thanks for the great work, Eric! 

Check it out here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMf-7Kq-g8k


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[RBW] Re: Jimmy's Hunq!!1

[J J]

Thanks Eric and Jim! Will's blog post was the first I saw of the full paint 
job and the build. Up to yesterday afternoon I had only seen a few low res 
teaser images, so I've been soaking in Will's fantastic photos. I'm blown 
away by the care and detail of Rick's paint job. I had told Rick that I 
hope he has fun with the bike, and it feels like he did. And Antonio did 
such a clean, lovely build. Thanks Antonio! I can't wait to see the bike in 
person. And to ride it!

@Jim, the blue ring around the pump peg really got me, too, as did the 
lining around the top and bottom of the head tube and the little circle 
cutouts in the fork crown. Incredible detail and beyond what I was 
expecting.

@Eric, thanks for the kind words. I can see the deep rusty pink tones now 
that you mention it. Like I said in the writeup, copper is super tricky. 
There are so many colors posing as copper! You've got a great eye about the 
lime 
green Newbaum's with amber shellac. I went back and forth on tape and Will 
urged the lime. I'm stoked about how it turned out. 

This project has been a long time in the making. Everyone I worked with, 
directly and indirectly — Rick on the paint, Rich on the wheels, Will and 
the entire Rivendell crew on everything else — was super welcoming, 
accessible, and engaging. And they made the entire process a lot of fun, 
which above all is what bikes should be about as far as I'm concerned. 

Jim

On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 1:55:46 PM UTC-4 Jim in Mpls wrote:

> The blue ring around the pump peg really pushed me over the edge! Amazing 
> detailing!
> Jim
>
> On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 11:26:50 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Oh me. Oh my. Wowee wee wow wow! The Hunq from this week's email update 
>> is a real stunner. Will's photos, as usual, really bring it to life. 
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/jimmys-hunqapillar?mc_cid=a24d941b71_eid=592b20cfa2
>>
>> [image: jimmyshunq-1_1400x copy.png]
>>
>> Many of you know that I'm a fan of patinated copper and brass. Even so 
>> the colors didn't register to me as being from the family of weathered 
>> brass, copper or bronze. It looks like a deep rusty pink to my eye. I love 
>> it all the same! From Jimmy's description it sounds like he and painted 
>> Rick at D went back and forth to divine a great paint selection. Well 
>> done, I must say. 
>>
>> The blue cable housing and lug lines, the bar tape. An awesome blend of 
>> XTR. I'd wager that's the lime green Newbaum's with amber shellac, a bold 
>> choice indeed that achieves a nice bronzed olive. Beautiful all around. 
>> This bike looks like a blast. 
>>
>> [image: jimmyshunq-12_1400x copy.png]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thumb Shifter Advice

[J J]

Hi Aaron. I was just telling another list member privately that Paul 
Thumbies + Shimano SL-BS77s are my idea of shifting nirvana. We have this 
combo on five of our bikes. I use them strictly in friction mode and they 
totally fulfilled my quest for awesome shifting. No need to explore 
shifters anymore! 

With the high-end drivetrain you're setting up, I can't imagine you will 
find smoother, lighter, or more precise action. 

The caveat is that what works for one person won't necessarily work for 
someone else. It's subjective and idiosyncratic. 

Good luck!

Jim

On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 8:05:11 PM UTC-4 Glen wrote:

> When I switched up my Atlantis to Billy Bars a few years ago I also 
> ditched the bar ends for a Shimano Sora rapid fire rear shifter and one of 
> the Sunrace front shifters set up for left inner mounting. 
>
> I really like that setup but if you don't have the real estate in front of 
> your grips, that the Billy Bars have, you may find that the shifter gets in 
> the way of grasping the bars just in front of the grip. The left side has 
> much more room to grasp there and if you spend a lot of time climbing in 
> that position you may find the Sora uncomfortable and prefer the Sunrace 
> for both sides. 
>
> It had been almost 20 years since I last had indexing on a road bike and 
> it's kind of a nice change. I love it on my mountain bike but its a 1X and 
> I would never try to shift an indexed 3X (again)
>
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 9:50:21 AM UTC-6 tal...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'll be building up one of the new Susies (in green) soon and I'm *debating 
>> my thumb-shifter options*. Do you have some advice?
>>
>> I'll be setting up
>>
>>- 9-speed Shimano RD (RD-M952)
>>- Triple Shimano FD (FD-M953) on a Silver Wide-low double
>>- Inside-mount thumb shifters on Sim Works (Nitto) Ramble bars
>>- Preferably, indexed shifting for the rear
>>
>> I know of
>>
>>- *Microshift*. I've got a lot of miles on their 11-speed thumb 
>>shifter on my commuter and I get ghost shifts no matter how much I tweak 
>>it. I have a lot fewer miles on their 2/3x9 pair on my 90s mountain bike 
>>and they haven't given me trouble. 
>>- *Paul Thumbie + Shimano SL-BS77*. Tempting, but expensive. Do you 
>>have experience with this setup? Can you compare it with Microshift?
>>- *Silver2*. Pretty, but not indexed and I'm a scared wimp. Can you 
>>convince me friction shifting is the way to go?
>>- *Are there other options* (including used or NOS) I should consider?
>>
>> Thanks in advance, 
>> Aaron
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] It's New Bike What?

[J J]

Thanks for taking the time for such a comprehensive response, Corwin. Super 
interesting and well thought-out choices.
 
(Your comments about the Onyx rear hub might be the final nudge I need to 
take the plunge on one!!)

Best wishes,

Jim

On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 10:46:56 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Hi Jim -
>
> It's been close to three years between the theft of the original custom 
> and delivery of the new one. To be honest, the wait was about the same as 
> last time. Back then, there was a big backlog of custom frames waiting to 
> be built and waiting to be painted.
>
> Regarding the size - it's a 60.2. According to Grant, that 0.2 cm really 
> matters. Another difference between the two frames I neglected to mention 
> is this one has the minimum upslope: 1.5 degrees. The original had what 
> looks like a 3 degree upslope.
>
> Regarding the components -- I will give you a detailed analysis.
>
> Bottom bracket - Original had a Phil Wood with outboard bearings. The new 
> one has a Chris King with outboard ceramic bearings.
>
> Headset - Old was a Chris King Nothreadset. New is a Cane Creek 40.
>
> Crankset - both bikes have (or had) the same crankset - Shimano Ultegra 
> 6650 compact double. As I recall, the original custom had 46/34 chainrings. 
> The new chainrings are 48/34.
>
> Pedals - I had Tioga Surefoot 8 pedals on the original. Kept meaning to 
> put clipless on, but never got around to it. The new custom has Ritchey 
> Micro Road (one sided) clipless pedals.
>
> Stem/Handlebars - I started out with 48cm Noodles and a 13cm Nitto 
> threadless stem on the original. By the time I got things dialed in, I had 
> switched to an 8cm Nitto threadless stem. The new bars are Albastache. The 
> tape is the same between old and new - tan corkish tape.
>
> Seatpost - Same for both - Nitto Frog (NJ-SP72 27.2).
>
> Saddle - Old was a Fizik Aliante Gamma with Kium rails. New saddle is a 
> Fizik Aliante Gamma R3 with kium rails. The old saddle had been Recovered 
> by Carson Leh in Texas. By the time I contacted him again, Carson was no 
> longer recovering saddles. Carson referred me to Mick Peel in Australia who 
> recovered the new saddle and embossed the leather with the Rivendell logo.
>
> Front Derailleur - Old was a Campagnolo Mirage. New is a Shimano GX. 
> Although the bottom bracket drop and seat tube angles are the same for both 
> frames, the new bike is limited in the gears I can use from the big ring. 
> This could be due to my choice of a larger chainring.
>
> Rear Derailleur - Old was a Shimano Ultegra 9-speed. New is an SRAM  X0 
> medium cage.
>
> Shifters - Old were Shimano 600/Ultegra 9 speed shifting indexed. New are 
> SRAM 10 speed bar ends shifting indexed.
>
> Cassette - Old was 11-28 nine speed. New is 11-36 ten speed.
>
> Brakes - Old were Tektro R539 sidepulls. New are Tektro CX8.4 V-brakes. I 
> really loved the R539s. But I hate the lawyer tabs they added.
>
> Brake Levers - Old were SRAM 500 aluminum levers. New are SRAM 900 carbon 
> levers.
>
> Wheelset - Went through several iterations on the old custom. Started with 
> a SON Dynamo hub laced to Velocity Fusion rim in front. The rear was a 
> Chris King Classic Cross hub laced to a Velocity Fusion off-center rim. I 
> sold the front wheel after a year or so. Then had the rear wheel rebuilt 
> with the Chris King hub and Velocity A23 rim. Before the rebuild, I sent 
> the Chris King hub off for a new steel driveshell. I had a new front wheel 
> built with a Chris King Classic Cross hub and Velocity A23 rim. The new 
> wheelset is Onyx hubs laced to Velocity Quill rims. The Onyx rear hub has 
> ceramic bearings and a noiseless clutch. It's wild sneaking up on people 
> with a noiseless bike (even when coasting).
>
> Tires - My biggest gripe about the old custom was that I had spec'ed it to 
> take 35mm tires. Which it did. The new custom was spec'ed for 38mm tires 
> and will handle tires wider than 40mm (without fenders).
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwin
> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 6:35:18 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Congratulations, Corwin. It's lovely. It looks like such a fun bike. From 
>> what I recall, this has been a long time coming for you after your previous 
>> custom was stolen. 
>>
>> A couple of questions: do you mind sharing what size it is? The slammed 
>> bar I think is making it kind of hard for me to ascertain proportions.
>> Also, besides the switch to canti posts and V brakes, how does the 
>> build/components collection deviate from your previous custom? 
>>
>> Congrats again.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 4:31:08 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.n

Re: [RBW] It's New Bike What?

[J J]

Congratulations, Corwin. It's lovely. It looks like such a fun bike. From 
what I recall, this has been a long time coming for you after your previous 
custom was stolen. 

A couple of questions: do you mind sharing what size it is? The slammed bar 
I think is making it kind of hard for me to ascertain proportions.
Also, besides the switch to canti posts and V brakes, how does the 
build/components collection deviate from your previous custom? 

Congrats again.

Jim


On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 4:31:08 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Hi Dave -
>
> It had a lot more dirt on it after last Saturday when I rode the Redlands 
> Strada Rossa. Ride Report to be posted shortly...
>
> Regards,
>
> CZ
>
> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 1:10:35 PM UTC-7 DavidP wrote:
>
>> Corbin, the nice about New Bike What? (as opposed to NBD) is that the 
>> bike has some dirt on it!
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 3:50:13 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rich -
>>>
>>> I can't take credit for the build. Mark Abele at Rivendell did it all. 
>>> Including getting the frame built by Mark Nobilette and painted by Joe Bell.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> CZ
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 12:36:55 PM UTC-7 RichS wrote:
>>>
 Corwin, an adventurous build for an adventure bike. You must have had a 
 good time putting that one together. Love the result:-)))
 Thanks for showing it off.

 Best,
 Rich in ATL


 On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 2:53:45 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Corwin. I'm a pedal snob and love lightweight SPD-type pedals, 
> and there's a (earlier version?) pair of Micros on eBay for $25, but I 
> just 
> read reviews of the Micros and apparently their cleats and SPD cleats 
> aren't compatible; too bad, since I have SPDs on all my bikes now. 
>
> Bike Radar weighed the Micro version they reviewed at 208 grams, 
> lighter even than the old Xpedo titanium spindle pedals with 180 lb 
> weight 
> limit in my pedal stash, and a good 5 oz lighter than my go-to Dura Ace 
> spds.
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 12:30 PM Corwin Zechar  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick -
>>
>> Love the Richey Micros. They are one-sided and weighted to be in the 
>> optimal position when you want to clip in.
>>
>> I've had lots of Schwalbe tires. I get flats on almost every ride 
>> with G-Ones. But the Hurricanes have never flatted. I have them on three 
>> bikes now: Hubbuhubbuh, Custom and Quickbeam. I really like the cushy 
>> ride 
>> of supple tires. But a tire that flats nearly every time I ride is of no 
>> use to me. Reliability is very important to me.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> CZ
>>
>> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 11:03:40 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Lovely and intriguing! Certainly an eclectic build -- that's a 
>>> positive. How do you like the Hurricanes and the Ritchey Micros?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 10:42 AM John Bokman  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That ride looks like so much fun! Love the color pop of the Red 
 brakes on Purple frameset. Reminds me of days on my 1994 Maroon 
 mustached 
 XO-3. Also my 1990 MB2 (because it was also purple). Thanks for 
 posting 
 Corwin.

 John

 On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 3:30:25 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> Looks great, and I love the color, and the fat tires with 
> the Albastache combo.
>
> I think you win the Riv with the lowest bars award!
>
> Eric
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 2:03 AM Corwin Zechar  
> wrote:
>
>> It's definitely not new bike day. That was back in the first week 
>> of February. Not even New Bike Month. So it's New Bike Quarter?
>>
>> Anyway, I picked up my much anticipated and long-awaited custom 
>> Rivendell last month. Some interesting aspects include:
>>
>> 1) SRAM drop bar levers mounted on opposite sides (with respect 
>> to normal drop bar mounting) on Nitto Albastache bars - as suggested 
>> by 
>> Bill Lindsay.
>>
>> 2) A Fizik Aliante Gamma saddle recovered by Mick Peel in 
>> Australia and sporting the Rivendell logo.
>>
>> 3) A Rich Lesnik built wheelset with Onyx hubs and Velocity Quill 
>> rims.
>>
>> 4) SRAM rear derailer and SRAM bar-end shifters.
>>
>> 5) Shimano Ultegra 6650 compact double crankset with TA 
>> Specialities chainrings
>>
>> 6) Chris King bottom bracket with outboard bearings.
>>
>> 7) DT Swiss skewers.
>>
>> 8) Custom lug carving by Mark Nobilette.
>>
>> 9) Ritchey Micro Road pedals.
>>
>> 10) 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[J J]

I'm 100 percent with Jock on this issue. It's hard to take the Disraeli 
Gears comments about the XT RD-M760 seriously, dripping as they are with 
dismissiveness. We've had long threads on this forum about low normal 
derailleurs before, and I still find the myths that circulate about Rapid 
Rise perplexing. For example, the myths that Rapid Rise performs "worse" 
than high normal, or it's harder to set up or index, or that (per the 
Disraeli Gears comments) it's somehow more prone to rust than other 
derailleurs in the same general series, like the XT M750,  built with the 
same material.

The reason I favor RR comes down to a shifting logic that works better for 
my brain and motor coordination than high normal. I shift in friction mode 
on all my bikes, which all have low normal rear ders. I like that I can 
move both levers in the same direction to get to higher/harder or 
lower/easier gears instead of moving oppositely. That's about it. I do 
think there are a few other benefits of RR: if my shift cable broke, the RR 
spring will push the derailleur to the easiest gear instead of the hardest, 
thus avoiding a potential high-gear slog home. But how often do cables 
break? RR also seems to shift more easily to lower/easier gears under load. 
But maybe this is a misattribution. Maybe I've simply gotten better about 
timing my shifts and floating the pedals. 

It does not mean that I have *trouble* with high normal shifting! To the 
contrary, high normal is just fine. Low normal is just a preference. What 
works great for Rapid Rise adherents won't necessarily work great for 
anyone else. Once you try RR, the possible outcomes will be that you like 
it, you hate it, or that you're more or less neutral about it. (You will 
also realize that one way or another, it is not earth shattering or life 
changing, nor will it make you a more skilled and faster rider). 

Any shifts I have missed or bungled are totally attributable to user error, 
to my timing or judgement, and not anything inherent to a high normal vs. 
low normal modality.

Finally, all Rapid Rise rear ders I have tried, from the humble end to the 
fancy XTRs, work beautifully. The differences between them are refinement 
level, materials, weight, looks, aesthetics, and so on, just like every 
other Shimano product categories that are stratified by price point.

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 10:38:41 PM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:

> @ http://disraeligears.co.uk/…well I suppose if you pedal around in a 
> saltwater bath, like some of those unfortunate souls…that might happen. 
>
> For those us who ride under sunny skies now and again—and take care of 
> stuff properly—I can tell you that after years and years of working those 
> mechs, never a mixed-up shift that wasn’t my doing and not even a 
> microscopic spot of corrosion to be found anywhere. 
>
> Total hooey I say. And I’ve got the goods to prove it 浪
>
> Jock
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:15 PM Chintan Jadwani  
> wrote:
>
>> Another question - from a couple of reviews here people seem indifference 
>> of the performance between low vs high normal. But online elsewhwre, there 
>> seems to be strong dislike for low normal - why is that? 
>>
>> For example - disraeligears.co.uk writes for the xt m760
>>
>> "The Shimano Deore XT (M760) is my absolutely least favourite Deore XT 
>> variant. It has cheap (rust prone) detailing, unnecessary styling and, 
>> worst of all, it’s low normal. not your obvious choice for slogging your 
>> way through the mud and grime of a British winter. Bring back stainless 
>> steel small parts, polished finishes and top normal operating logic."
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Mar, 2024, 5:07 am John Dewey,  wrote:
>>
>>> And the Rivendell ‘fan base’ is a subset of another and another so as to 
>>> be mostly inconsequential. We do count, however and a few brave souls do 
>>> sort-of OK serving us. 
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, most of us (even here in RBW’s backyard) seldom cross 
>>> paths with cyclists with whom we have anything in common other than two 
>>> wheels. We’re already a bit abnormal and ‘low-normal’ makes us even more 
>>> so. 
>>>
>>> Jock (and his fleet of abnormal low-normals)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:41 AM Johnny Alien  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell 
 fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all. 
 Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to 
 market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope 
 that 
 I can test the theory (because they successfully release it)

 On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time 
> I am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the 
> cassette I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur. 
>
> Thanks 

[RBW] Re: Video: Repairing Pam Murray's Silver shifters

[J J]

This was good to watch — generous of you to share with the community, Eric.
Now referencing "turducken" in a Riv-aligned video was probably a 
firstand somehow very fitting...
Thanks again

Jim

On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 11:30:10 AM UTC-5 wls...@gmail.com wrote:

> Love your videos Eric, very relaxing.
>
> On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 10:40:31 AM UTC-5 diana@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Great video! Thank you for sharing.
>>
>> Diana 
>> San Francisco 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 6:02:33 AM UTC-8 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> Good Job Eric ! 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 7:48:05 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hi everyone — Last fall Pam Murray sent me some Silver shifter levers 
 that were in need of repair. They came off her high-mileage Betty Foy 
 after 
 the springs wore out. 

 Thanks to Mike Godwin for sending me a broken pair of the old Suntour 
 Sprint levers, they provided the parts I needed to get Pam's shifters back 
 up and running. 

 I made a video about the process, it's up here: 
 https://youtu.be/0g67pjAPYZk

 I hope this is helpful to anyone looking to get their worn out or 
 broken Silver v1 or v2 shifters back into shape.

 Cheers! 

>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: XTR, Nitto, B68, Deer Head, XT, other misc. bits

[J J]

Thanks, Eric! You call it a collection, others might call it an "obsessive 
hoard" lol

Great video on Pam's shifters! I guess I outta thank you in the other 
thread :) 

On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 7:50:40 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just stopping by to say I continue to admire your collection of rapid 
> risers! 
>
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 12:27:56 AM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>>
>> *Update #2, the following items are still available:*
>>
>>
>>
>>- XTR BR-M900 NOS cantilever brakes (one F/R set sold, one F/R set 
>>still available)
>>
>>
>>- XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur
>>
>>
>>- Deer Head SL-M700 NOS silver shifters
>>
>> On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 4:45:31 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>> *Update on what is still available, with appreciation to all who reached 
>> out. I'm open to offers.*
>>
>>
>>- XTR BR-M900 NOS cantilever brakes (one F/R set sold, one F/R set 
>>still available)
>>
>>
>>- XTR RD-M953 Rapid Rise rear derailleur
>>
>>
>>- XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur
>>
>>
>>- Brooks B68 (new)
>>- Deer Head SL-M700 NOS silver shifters
>>
>> *Items already sold (many thanks!):*
>>
>>
>>- BL-M550 brake levers
>>- XTR BR-M900 cantilever brakes (second F/R set is still available)
>>
>>
>>- VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals
>>
>>
>>- Sugino XD2 triple crankset
>>- XTR RD-M950 rear derailleur
>>- XT FD-M781 front derailleur
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 9:27:52 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>> I'm preparing for a new build and want to clear out stuff I won't be 
>> using anytime soon. Please reach out privately if you're interested in 
>> anything. Thanks very much. 
>> Jim
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *Nitto Technomic stem* (26, 100mm extension, great cond) $25
>>
>> [image: nitto stems and shimano brake lever copy.jpg]
>>
>> *Shimano XT BL-M550 brake levers* (*photo above*, silver, some scuffs, 
>> mechanically perfect) $20
>>
>> *XTR BR-M900 cantilever brakes* (gorgeous classic brakes, two F sets, 
>> both sets NOS, never installed. One set is with box and paperwork, one set 
>> is without box and dusty) $390 for NIB set, $370 for the other set. 
>>
>> [image: XTR BR-M900 cantis with box.jpg]
>> [image: XTR BR-M900 cantis.jpg]
>>
>> *VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals* (great condition, removable pins, 
>> spin super smoothly) $30
>>
>> [image: VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals.jpg]
>>
>> *Sugino XD2 triple crankset*, 175 (74/110 BCD, set up as a 48-34 double, 
>> rings in great cond, can add small ring. Took off a bike I'm getting 
>> painted. Shoe rub on arms for a partially polished look lol. great crankset 
>> at a budget price, and it'll last forever) $40
>>
>> [image: Sugino triple crank set up as double 48-34 .jpg]
>>
>> *XTR RD-M950 rear derailleur* (GS, high normal, NOS with box) $245
>>
>> [image: XTR RD-M950 (NOS) RD-M953 (used).jpg]
>>
>> *XTR RD-M953 Rapid Rise rear derailleur* (*photo above*, SGS, great 
>> condition, superficial scuffs, mechanically perfect, pulleys in great 
>> condition, spin smoothly) $145
>>
>> *XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur* (*on left in photo below,* SGS, 
>> with brand new OEM tension pulley, guide pulley in great cond., body has 
>> some scuffs, inside of cage has chain rub, clean and perfect mechanical 
>> cond.) $125
>>
>> [image: XTR RDs M960, M951.jpg]
>>
>> *Brooks B68* (brand new, never taken out of box or even handled, honey) 
>> $150 
>>
>> [image: Brooks B68 Honey.jpg]
>>
>> *Shimano XT Deore Deer Head SL-M700 shift levers* (NOS, pristine, 
>> beautifully overbuilt shifters from the early- to mid-80s! With original 
>> paperwork, cables, housing) $165 
>>
>> [image: XT SL-M700 Deer Head.jpg]
>>
>> *Shimano XT FD-M781 triple front derailleur* (dual pull, dusty, in 
>> perfect mechanical shape. Took off my Hunqapillar.) $20 
>>
>> [image: Shimano XT FD-M781.jpg]
>>
>>
>> * Shipping not included in listed prices
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[J J]

Chuck, I believe the best Rivendell for pavement riding is whichever 
Rivendell that fits you well and is comfortable for your body, that pleases 
you mechanically and aesthetically, that is within your budget, and that 
accomplishes whatever goals for the type of riding you hope to do. 

You said you will be riding mostly on pavement. Pavement riding is a broad 
category, and there are many different modes and types of it. Will it be 
"practical" pavement riding (like commuting or hauling stuff from the 
supermarket), relaxed cruising on a weekend morning, or racing in a group? 
Will you occasionally venture off road? All of the above?

One of the things that makes Rivs so wonderful is their versatility. This 
is what I value about Rivs above all else, which is why I gravitate to the 
various All Rounders. An Atlantis, for example, can be set up many 
different ways and it will be brilliant in the various guises. Swap a 
handlebar or tires (either wider or narrower, or to or from slicks and 
knobbies) and you have a bike with different character suited for a 
different type of riding, all while retaining the Rivendell feel. 

If you want a "road" bike strictly speaking, there are a lot of great 
suggestions in this thread. In the end it comes back to your own 
subjectivity, and your sense of the kind of riding you will be doing.

Good luck with your search!

On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 2:01:43 PM UTC-5 heike...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Chuck--as you asked about the Appaloosa and a drop-bar alternative, 
> I'll chime in: I have a 51" 650B Appaloosa with Nitto Choco bars 
> ,
>  
> which Riv describes thus: "It's also good for road bikes instead of a drop 
> bar, when you want a close grip and a totally perfect next-to-stem grip. 
> It's the best bar we have for that." I really like these bars, as I can 
> grab the flats when going fast, downhill, or against wind, and the 
> swept-back part is super comfortable otherwise. It's not a super wide bar; 
> never feels out of place even on narrower paths or in traffic. 
>
> I bought the Appa as a mixed-terrain bike, as a true allrounder, and I 
> right now have a rack on it (and fenders, soon--just got my Velo Orange 
> wavys delivered). I mostly ride it on smooth roads, and it's a fun bike for 
> that, even up hills. Roadbike? No, not nimble and light to go on group fast 
> rides, but totally smooth and comfortable for long rides.  If I had two Riv 
> bikes, I might get a Ram or a Roadini in addition to the App - but for just 
> one bike that can do all kinds of things really well, the Appa is 
> wonderful! 
>
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 10:28:06 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I own a 54cm Roadini (for myself) and a 50cm (for my son who will soon 
>> outgrow his Salsa Journeyman). I'd set up my Roadini as a gravel bike with 
>> wide tires but recently a friend borrowed my son's Roadini for her first 
>> ride over a dirt path in less than dry conditions I swapped the wheels on 
>> both bikes. Having done that work I decided to start riding the Roadini for 
>> my commute again, and it's such a nice bike for pavement riding. I would be 
>> very happy if the Roadini was the only bike I was allowed to ride. A 
>> wheel/tire swap is all it takes to switch its personality.
>>
>> Picture of the 50mm gold Roadini with 40mm Conti Terraspeed tires: 
>> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/9xe97P72TVC9kT6ezib43w.ApcagsQcybWcV2qpmaE8je
>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 9:46:26 AM UTC-8 cfic...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Mathias, Max, Damien, thanks. A lot of good information in your posts. 
>>> Riding and experimenting with different models may be the only way to find 
>>> that "perfect" bike, if there is such a thing. I have to admit that I've 
>>> been riding an All City Space Horse for a while now, which I picked up to 
>>> see me through while I wait on the "right" Rivendell to become available. 
>>> It's actually very comfortable and stable, but a bit heavy for the hills. 
>>> The 52cm model I have has similar chainstay, wheelbase, head tube angle, 
>>> stack, and reach to a 50cm Roadini, so maybe I should be satisfied with 
>>> what I have? I don't know. I am rethinking the requirement I have had in my 
>>> mind for drop handlebars, though. Some of the Nitto bars (Losco, Choco, 
>>> Albastache) look like they could be fine for long distance road riding with 
>>> multiple positions that could mimic some of those of a drop bar. And they 
>>> might work better with the longish top tubes. 
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 12:27:31 PM UTC-5 Damien wrote:
>>>
 I had a Sam up until recently but sold it and have very recently 
 replaced with a Ram which I've yet to get out on (am going to swap out the 
 Albatross currently on them for drop bars). Not sure what size you're 
 looking at, but the thing for me was I wanted a 700c bike, and the 

[RBW] Re: FS: XTR, Nitto, B68, Deer Head, XT, other misc. bits

[J J]

*Update #2, the following items are still available:*
   
   - XTR BR-M900 NOS cantilever brakes (one F/R set sold, one F/R set still 
   available)
   - XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur
   - Deer Head SL-M700 NOS silver shifters

On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 4:45:31 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

*Update on what is still available, with appreciation to all who reached 
out. I'm open to offers.*


   - XTR BR-M900 NOS cantilever brakes (one F/R set sold, one F/R set still 
   available)


   - XTR RD-M953 Rapid Rise rear derailleur


   - XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur


   - Brooks B68 (new)
   - Deer Head SL-M700 NOS silver shifters
   
*Items already sold (many thanks!):*


   - BL-M550 brake levers
   - XTR BR-M900 cantilever brakes (second F/R set is still available)


   - VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals


   - Sugino XD2 triple crankset
   - XTR RD-M950 rear derailleur
   - XT FD-M781 front derailleur
   


On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 9:27:52 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

I'm preparing for a new build and want to clear out stuff I won't be using 
anytime soon. Please reach out privately if you're interested in anything. 
Thanks very much. 
Jim

---

*Nitto Technomic stem* (26, 100mm extension, great cond) $25

[image: nitto stems and shimano brake lever copy.jpg]

*Shimano XT BL-M550 brake levers* (*photo above*, silver, some scuffs, 
mechanically perfect) $20

*XTR BR-M900 cantilever brakes* (gorgeous classic brakes, two F sets, 
both sets NOS, never installed. One set is with box and paperwork, one set 
is without box and dusty) $390 for NIB set, $370 for the other set. 

[image: XTR BR-M900 cantis with box.jpg]
[image: XTR BR-M900 cantis.jpg]

*VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals* (great condition, removable pins, 
spin super smoothly) $30

[image: VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals.jpg]

*Sugino XD2 triple crankset*, 175 (74/110 BCD, set up as a 48-34 double, 
rings in great cond, can add small ring. Took off a bike I'm getting 
painted. Shoe rub on arms for a partially polished look lol. great crankset 
at a budget price, and it'll last forever) $40

[image: Sugino triple crank set up as double 48-34 .jpg]

*XTR RD-M950 rear derailleur* (GS, high normal, NOS with box) $245

[image: XTR RD-M950 (NOS) RD-M953 (used).jpg]

*XTR RD-M953 Rapid Rise rear derailleur* (*photo above*, SGS, great 
condition, superficial scuffs, mechanically perfect, pulleys in great 
condition, spin smoothly) $145

*XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur* (*on left in photo below,* SGS, 
with brand new OEM tension pulley, guide pulley in great cond., body has 
some scuffs, inside of cage has chain rub, clean and perfect mechanical 
cond.) $125

[image: XTR RDs M960, M951.jpg]

*Brooks B68* (brand new, never taken out of box or even handled, honey) 
$150 

[image: Brooks B68 Honey.jpg]

*Shimano XT Deore Deer Head SL-M700 shift levers* (NOS, pristine, 
beautifully overbuilt shifters from the early- to mid-80s! With original 
paperwork, cables, housing) $165 

[image: XT SL-M700 Deer Head.jpg]

*Shimano XT FD-M781 triple front derailleur* (dual pull, dusty, in perfect 
mechanical shape. Took off my Hunqapillar.) $20 

[image: Shimano XT FD-M781.jpg]


* Shipping not included in listed prices

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[RBW] Re: WTT / WTB: your Nitto M12 Front Rack for my Nitto Campee 32F Mini Rack

[J J]

Thanks to everyone who reached out about a trade or purchase. I'm all set 
with an M12 rack now. I appreciate it!

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 8:05:12 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

Hi all — I have a Nitto 32F (new in package) but I want/need a Nitto M12 to 
install using a Riv's cantilever brake bosses. 

If you have an M12 you're not using, please let me know if you're up for a 
trade for the 32F. 

If you have an M12 but would rather sell than trade it, please let me know 
your price. I would want all the hardware (stud bolts) that came with it.

Thanks!

Jim

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[RBW] WTT / WTB: your Nitto M12 Front Rack for my Nitto Campee 32F Mini Rack

[J J]

Hi all — I have a Nitto 32F (new in package) but I want/need a Nitto M12 to 
install using a Riv's cantilever brake bosses. 

If you have an M12 you're not using, please let me know if you're up for a 
trade for the 32F. 

If you have an M12 but would rather sell than trade it, please let me know 
your price. I would want all the hardware (stud bolts) that came with it.

Thanks!

Jim



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[RBW] Re: FS: XTR, Nitto, B68, Deer Head, XT, other misc. bits

[J J]

*Update on what is still available, with appreciation to all who reached 
out. I'm open to offers.*


   - XTR BR-M900 NOS cantilever brakes (one F/R set sold, one F/R set still 
   available)
   - XTR RD-M953 Rapid Rise rear derailleur
   - XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur
   - Brooks B68 (new)
   - Deer Head SL-M700 NOS silver shifters
   
*Items already sold (many thanks!):*


   - BL-M550 brake levers
   - XTR BR-M900 cantilever brakes (second F/R set is still available)
   - VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals
   - Sugino XD2 triple crankset
   - XTR RD-M950 rear derailleur
   - XT FD-M781 front derailleur
   


On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 9:27:52 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> I'm preparing for a new build and want to clear out stuff I won't be using 
> anytime soon. Please reach out privately if you're interested in anything. 
> Thanks very much. 
> Jim
>
> ---
>
> *Nitto Technomic stem* (26, 100mm extension, great cond) $25
>
> [image: nitto stems and shimano brake lever copy.jpg]
>
> *Shimano XT BL-M550 brake levers* (*photo above*, silver, some scuffs, 
> mechanically perfect) $20
>
> *XTR BR-M900 cantilever brakes* (gorgeous classic brakes, two F sets, 
> both sets NOS, never installed. One set is with box and paperwork, one set 
> is without box and dusty) $390 for NIB set, $370 for the other set. 
>
> [image: XTR BR-M900 cantis with box.jpg]
> [image: XTR BR-M900 cantis.jpg]
>
> *VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals* (great condition, removable pins, 
> spin super smoothly) $30
>
> [image: VP Components VP-001 Platform Pedals.jpg]
>
> *Sugino XD2 triple crankset*, 175 (74/110 BCD, set up as a 48-34 double, 
> rings in great cond, can add small ring. Took off a bike I'm getting 
> painted. Shoe rub on arms for a partially polished look lol. great crankset 
> at a budget price, and it'll last forever) $40
>
> [image: Sugino triple crank set up as double 48-34 .jpg]
>
> *XTR RD-M950 rear derailleur* (GS, high normal, NOS with box) $245
>
> [image: XTR RD-M950 (NOS) RD-M953 (used).jpg]
>
> *XTR RD-M953 Rapid Rise rear derailleur* (*photo above*, SGS, great 
> condition, superficial scuffs, mechanically perfect, pulleys in great 
> condition, spin smoothly) $145
>
> *XTR RD-M960 Rapid Rise rear derailleur* (*on left in photo below,* SGS, 
> with brand new OEM tension pulley, guide pulley in great cond., body has 
> some scuffs, inside of cage has chain rub, clean and perfect mechanical 
> cond.) $125
>
> [image: XTR RDs M960, M951.jpg]
>
> *Brooks B68* (brand new, never taken out of box or even handled, honey) 
> $150 
>
> [image: Brooks B68 Honey.jpg]
>
> *Shimano XT Deore Deer Head SL-M700 shift levers* (NOS, pristine, 
> beautifully overbuilt shifters from the early- to mid-80s! With original 
> paperwork, cables, housing) $165 
>
> [image: XT SL-M700 Deer Head.jpg]
>
> *Shimano XT FD-M781 triple front derailleur* (dual pull, dusty, in 
> perfect mechanical shape. Took off my Hunqapillar.) $20 
>
> [image: Shimano XT FD-M781.jpg]
>
>
> * Shipping not included in listed prices
>

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Re: [RBW] Advantages of triple drivetrains (VO post)

[J J]

Steven, thanks for the point about how useful triples are for riding with 
big loads, whether for touring, day tripping, shopping, whatever. I 
frequently haul loads up hills on my already-heavy Rivs, so a wide gear 
range with 24-34-44  or a 26-36-46 triple and a 34- or 36-tooth large rear 
sprocket works great for me. I'm a tinkerer but I don't mess with my front 
ders. They're set it and forget it. I also love the way shiny triple cranks 
look. I've never felt compelled to try a 1x from a functional or aesthetic 
standpoint. 

I agree with Johnny that much newfangled bike stuff and trends are driven 
by product differentiation and marketing. Sometimes what was once virtue 
becomes vice, sometimes what is old becomes new again. 

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 4:14:25 PM UTC-5 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> One point that I think is being missed, is for loaded touring bikes 
> triples make more sense. Though I am not camping I still am carrying around 
> 40 lbs on a 32 lb bike, low gears are especially useful on long and/or 
> steep hills. When home in central  New Hampshire many of my favorite roads 
> are diificult if not impossible for me to ride without a 15-18” gear.
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 8:43 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:
>
>> I'm planning on going from 3x to 1x on my all-around Tosco'd LHT. Maybe 
>> even do that today, and replace the big ring with the Rivendell chainring 
>> guard. 
>>
>> I haven't used the 48 in a long, long time. As for the 26 inner: there 
>> was a t-shirt from the 80s from a bike shop in Ketchum that read, "if you 
>> ain't hikin', you ain't mountain bikin'". If it gets that low, I appreciate 
>> the change in blood circulation by just walking those few minutes. 
>>
>> - Chris
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 12:30:47 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
>> NJ wrote:
>>
>>> Bill L stated:   " If it were me, I'd experiment with a 42-tooth big 
>>> ring before going to a triple"
>>>
>>> Question to Bill:   Will a 42T large ring result in the FD hitting the 
>>> chain stay in the inner ring of a triple (say 24T or 26T) ???
>>>
>>> PS  I agree with your comment on the 46-11 being a very high gear.
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 3:21:33 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Ben

 You run a 46/30 with an 11-34 11sp cassette.  If it were me, I'd 
 experiment with a 42-tooth big ring before going to a triple.  46x11 is 
 pretty darn high for a commuter/city bike.  Anything higher than a 4:1 in 
 my book is for the sole purpose of pedaling at >>40mph.  That is a real 
 use-case in hilly areas, but not for me, and especially not for a 
 commuter/city bike.  That's just a suggestion.  The jump from 42 to 30 is 
 much less dramatic.  

 BL in EC

 On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 11:25:39 AM UTC-8 bunny...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I've been kind of triple-curious again. I live in a hilly part of L.A. 
> My commuter/city bike has an 11-34 11s with a 46/30 front. I've been 
> finding the 46 to 30 jump to feel pretty large. It feels much more 
> dramatic 
> than 50-34. For instance, if I switch big to small in the from, I'll sift 
> down at least 3 cogs on the back to totally avoid spinning out 
> immediately. 
> I sometimes find myself mildly cross chaining in either direction to find 
> the right gear.
>
> So I've been thinking of either going 1x, or 3x. My other bike is 1x, 
> and it's a carbon all-road/gravel thing. I like the setup for rougher 
> terrain. Also, I just don't like the idea of having duplicate bikes. I 
> also 
> romanticize the bike I had about 20 years go, which had an 11-27 9 speed 
> with 24/36/46. At the time, it felt luxurious, natural, and easy. But I 
> didn't know then what I know now, and many times when I've set up a 
> modern 
> bike like this one from my past, I get quickly disillusioned and undo 
> that 
> change.
>
> I kinda feel like the headline should be "triples: still fun and 
> useful for hands on bike nerds who like to tinker."
>
> Ben
>
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-8 
> captaincon...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I dissent.  Front derailers are unnecessarily complicated to setup, 
>> and so are triple chainrings, especially on XD2s.  I have 1X 10 one two 
>> bikes, and love it, and I just specced a 1X 11 with a Deore 5100 
>> derailer 
>> and 11-51 cassette for my BMC Monstercross.  The whole drivetrain cost 
>> less 
>> than a nice triple crankset, it's all lighter too.  Check out Analog 
>> Cycles 
>> for inspiration.
>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> For years Grant/Rivendell argued against lots of gears in the rear 
>>> because people didn't need to shift that much. The message 

[RBW] WTB: Boscomoose / Bullmooose bars (fillet) and Paul Thumbies (22.2 Shimano)

[J J]

Hi all,

If you have the fillet variety of a Boscomoose or a Bullmooose bar that 
you're ready to let go of, please reach out privately. I'm interested in 
both. I'm not after the non-fillet varieties.

Also looking for a pair of Thumbies, polished or anodized silver. Asking 
here in case someone wants to sell a set before I take the plunge with a 
new set from Paul. 

Thanks very much!

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Lime Olive 50 cm Platypus frame

[J J]

It is a "paddle" of platypuses. 

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:41:09 AM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> What does one call a flock of Platypuses??? 
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 4:41:28 AM UTC-5 Joseph Tousignant wrote:
>
>> Ahhh,... Judge NOT,... lest YOU be Judged! :-)
>>
>> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:07:59 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> And no, I’m not selling my 55 Platys. I just need more sizes! And 
>>> colors. Whatever. Don’t judge.
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[J J]

*Bill requests: *
*3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the total 
end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing 
edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you*

Total end-to-end length of 52cm Wilbury and 52cm Glorius is between 67.5" 
and 68", both with 42mm 650b and fenders. The slight difference is due to 
different fenders.


On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 5:20:38 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Leah
>
> My recommendation for an alternative set of academic questions would 
> include the following:
>
> 1.  YOU own a 52cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total end 
> to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of 
> the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you
>
> 2.  YOU own a 55cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total end 
> to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of 
> the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you
>
> 3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the total 
> end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing 
> edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you
>
> I think it would be HOT if you had a sporty short wheelbase Riv 
> step-through in your ARSENAL.  Mrs Bubba used to own a 52cm Gomez, but now 
> she's on a 50cm Platy and it's not actively for sale.  Although if you were 
> eager to lease it for an extended period, I bet she could be convinced. 
>  Hers is Mermaid, and its full end to end length is 72 inches, plus or 
> minus a quarter-inch, with 650B x 48 Rene Herse knobbies and no fenders.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 1:27:55 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> I have a question that is probably only going to be academic. But maybe 
>> not. I’ve done crazier things. 
>>
>> Anyway, I have an 81 cm PBH. I sized up to the 55 cm Platypus (PBH range 
>> starts at 82 cm) and I love the fit. I adore my bikes. You can’t have them, 
>> I won’t sell them, don’t even ask. BUT, they are long. Too long for buses 
>> and for Amtrak. I desperately want to take Amtrak to Chicago with my bike 
>> for the first time, but my bike is too long. RivSister Kate says she can 
>> get her 50 cm Platypus on Amtrak if she undoes her V brakes and lets some 
>> air out of her tire. But, I’m 5’6” and I don’t know if I could ride that 
>> little bike. I don’t have one locally to try.
>>
>> Also, I’d want the lime olive, which would be very hard to find. Anyway, 
>> thanks for participating in my thought experiment. That might be a real 
>> experiment. Probably not. There’s likely a limit to how many Platys a girl 
>> can have.
>> Leah
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Brooks B68s, Dura-Ace 7403 front derailleur (NOS), IRD Alpina front derailleur with clamp

[J J]

*Update 2:  Dura-Ace and IRD FDs are sold. Thanks to all who reached out!*
On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:25:27 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> *Update: the Brooks B68s is sold. Thanks for the rush of interest! :) *
> *The two FDs are still available. *
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 1:53:01 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> Hi all, selling a few nice items. Please reach out privately if you're 
>> interested. Thanks!
>>
>> *1) Brooks B68s saddle (like new, $135 shipped)*
>> This is the "s" version, a few millimeters shorter than the regular B68. 
>> Textured leather, beautiful, hard to find. Treated with Brooks Proofide and 
>> some areas are slightly darker. Ridden twice for short distances. No saddle 
>> bag ever mounted.
>>
>> [image: Brooks B68s-2.jpg]
>>
>> [image: Brooks B68s-1.jpg]
>>
>> *2) Dura-Ace FD 7403 front derailleur. Bottom pull, 28.6 clamp. (NOS with 
>> original box, $142 shipped) *
>> Beautiful polished silver, classic model. One of the few Dura-Ace FDs 
>> that has the sweet (and subtle) Dura-Ace logotype/emblem on it. Adjustable 
>> spring tension. Pristine condition. 
>>
>> [image: Dura-Ace FD 7403.jpg]
>>
>> *3) IRD Alpina front derailleur. Bottom pull, includes 28.6 clamp 
>> (excellent condition, $45 shipped)*
>> Mechanically like new. Some chain rub on the cage. 
>>
>> [image: IRD FD.jpg] 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Brooks B68s, Dura-Ace 7403 front derailleur (NOS), IRD Alpina front derailleur with clamp

[J J]

*Update: the Brooks B68s is sold. Thanks for the rush of interest! :) *
*The two FDs are still available. *

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 1:53:01 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> Hi all, selling a few nice items. Please reach out privately if you're 
> interested. Thanks!
>
> *1) Brooks B68s saddle (like new, $135 shipped)*
> This is the "s" version, a few millimeters shorter than the regular B68. 
> Textured leather, beautiful, hard to find. Treated with Brooks Proofide and 
> some areas are slightly darker. Ridden twice for short distances. No saddle 
> bag ever mounted.
>
> [image: Brooks B68s-2.jpg]
>
> [image: Brooks B68s-1.jpg]
>
> *2) Dura-Ace FD 7403 front derailleur. Bottom pull, 28.6 clamp. (NOS with 
> original box, $142 shipped) *
> Beautiful polished silver, classic model. One of the few Dura-Ace FDs that 
> has the sweet (and subtle) Dura-Ace logotype/emblem on it. Adjustable 
> spring tension. Pristine condition. 
>
> [image: Dura-Ace FD 7403.jpg]
>
> *3) IRD Alpina front derailleur. Bottom pull, includes 28.6 clamp 
> (excellent condition, $45 shipped)*
> Mechanically like new. Some chain rub on the cage. 
>
> [image: IRD FD.jpg] 
>

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Re: [RBW] "A Steamy Lug Affair" by Grant Petersen

[J J]

This is a great piece, thanks, Eric! 

Does anyone know which was the first production Riv that was *not* fully 
lugged? 

Thanks again! 

Jim

> On Oct 6, 2023, at 12:28 PM, RichS  wrote:
> 
> Eric, I forgot. Thank you too for posting the article!
> 
> -Rich
> 
> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 12:22:53 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>> I'm still in love with the lugs on my 2013 Hillborne:-))) Hard to believe 
>> these are on a production frame. Thank you Grant!
>> 
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>> 
>> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:58:00 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com <> wrote:
>>> Two observations from reading the article. 1. The lugged bike renaissance 
>>> happened and is ongoing. 2. Neither of my two Rivendell’s are lugged. Well, 
>>> the Clem has the seat cluster…
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 5, 2023, at 5:05 PM, Ted W > wrote:
 
 
>>> 
 Funny you should mention this I have a couple different 3D printers, one 
 that prints in resin which is perfect for making positive molds for stuff 
 like this because the end product has very fine layer lines, and i was 
 thinking about how I would design my own lugs… I think you just gave me 
 some ideas!
 
 On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 4:58 PM aeroperf > wrote:
> I keep thinking it might be easier now (2023) to do a lugged frame than 
> it was 10 years ago because…
> You can design the frame with a CAD program, design the lugs with the 
> same program, and print the lugs using a 3-D printer.  If you don’t print 
> the steel lugs themselves, you can use the 3-D printer to print a wax 
> lug, which you can then cast in steel.
> Suddenly, everything fits.  The lug fits the geometry of the tubing.  If 
> you make a bigger or smaller frame, it won’t be “we only have lugs for a 
> 55Cm, but this is a 60Cm”, because the printer can just print the correct 
> lug.
> 
> Having spent 45 years working in aviation, I know that the skills 
> required  to weld/braze thin walled steel tubing are every bit as 
> demanding as brazing on a lug.  And the CAD tools today are outstanding.
> 
> 
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> .
 
 
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 To view this discussion on the web visit 
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 .
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tiller effect: could someone please explain?

[J J]

Thanks to all of you for the responses, and Shoji and Garth for the 
additional information. 

Yes, the wheelbarrow effect. That's a great descriptive image. I have 
definitely experienced it with an actual wheelbarrow (super annoying and 
funny) and on a bike!

But I've never experienced the wheelbarrow effect on my Hunq running the 
Boscomoose bar. I typically sit way upright, too. If I don't my wrists and 
shoulders hurt tremendously, my arms go numb, and it ruins my rides, etc. 

It's funny, Garth. I would've thought that the Bombadil and Hunq would have 
behave similarly, yet you suggested you're going to move to drop bars on 
your Bomba.  

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 3:29:53 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I also don't do really high bars via the stem or the bars themselves. The 
> tosco is about the max I will do and enjoy. Otherwise I am in the 
> choco/losco camp. Not much rise and no sweep forward.
>
> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 3:28:41 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I am not a fan of the super long stems with wide sweptback bars. Super 
>> flexy and the long stem makes the forward positions unusable for me. I 
>> struggle a but with Riv's sizing suggestions. Get a frame thats oversized 
>> and then stick a really tall and long stem on it with sweptback bars. All 
>> of those things don't add up. My Clem is on the larger size and I really 
>> enjoy it but I just a short stem. Never felt like a wheelbarrow to me. Most 
>> of my bikes steer pretty much the same with no odd behavior regardless of 
>> where my hands are in relation to the stem. I feel the flexiness way more 
>> and like builds that are a bit stiffer.
>>
>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 1:48:09 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > Try pushing a wheelbarrow up a steep hill. hilarity ensues. Once 
>>> you get knocked off your intended line, it's very difficult to move it back 
>>> on track as the wheelbarrow just wants to go in the direction it was moved 
>>> to go
>>>
>>> Thank you for describing it this way. You just described exactly how it 
>>> feels to climb a hill with my Gus and Tosco bars. I'll try a longer stem 
>>> and get my hands further forward.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 1:26 PM Garth  wrote:
>>>
 I call it the wheelbarrow effect myself, as that most aptly describes 
 the sensation in a relatable way. Try pushing a wheelbarrow up a steep 
 hill. hilarity ensues. Once you get knocked off your intended line, 
 it's very difficult to move it back on track as the wheelbarrow just wants 
 to go in the direction it was moved to go. Steering just makes it worse. 
 My 
 experience with the Bombadil is just like that, although I'm sure it's not 
 nearly as bad as the hilly bikes or Clem. On my franklin road bike with 
 much less trail it just breezes up the same road and is easily corrected 
 getting knocked about by rocks, even with an Albatross bar.

 Dave Moulton also writes about it, among all sorts of other things in 
 the design of bicycles.
  
 http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2009/10/5/the-evolution-of-frame-design-part-i-the-wheelbarrow-effect.html

 An easy way to feel it is this from the article :

 *To demonstrate this effect to yourself; hold a pen or ruler on a table 
 top at 90 degrees to the surface, and move from side to side keeping the 
 point of the pen in one spot; you are moving in one plane. Now hold the 
 pen 
 at an angle of 45 degrees and move from side to side and you will see that 
 you swing in an arc.*

 *This was something I later called the “Wheelbarrow Effect.” In Part II 
 
  I 
 will talk about how frame design evolved through the 1960s and 1970s 
 to arrive closer to what we see today.*


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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: upright bars: how does shorter or longer stem affect steering?

[J J]

Eddie, for what it's worth: when I bought an old Atlantis (that has the 
much more compact size and geometry than current Atlantis models) it had a 
Noodle drop bar on a medium length stem — a pretty standard Rivendell 
build. I couldn't ride it for more than a few miles without experiencing 
terrible pain in my wrists, neck, and shoulders due to an old injury. 
Importantly, it felt extremely twitchy to me, maybe because I couldn't ever 
get quite comfortable enough.  

I replaced the Noodle with an Albatross using the same stem, and it was a 
world of difference. The twitchiness was gone — maybe because I was no 
longer in pain and uncomfortable? The bike suddenly felt super stable. I 
even noticed that the toe clip overlap that annoyed me so much when riding 
the Noodle was also gone, a nonissue, with the Albatross.

The takeaway for me is that it's one thing to discuss how stem length and 
type of handlebar affect steering and handling hypothetically, in the 
abstract. But it is quite another to assess how stem length and type of 
handlebar affect steering and feel for a particular body actually riding a 
particular bike. There are so many idiosyncrasies and variables in each of 
us that what might be common sense and obvious for one body just doesn't 
work for another, no matter what the putative rules and accepted wisdom 
about it might be. Each of us has our own goals and purpose for riding, 
which also play into feel. 

Jim

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:09:02 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-4 eddietheflay wrote:
>
>  My current bike has Billie bars installed on a very tall adjustable stem. 
> Effective top tube on this bike is 59.5cm. Reach to both the rear portion 
> at the grips and front portion at the curves seems quite comfortable. But 
> when steering from the grips things seem really twitchy. Wondering if a 
> shorter top-tubed bike with a longer stem would make things more steady?
>
>
> My experience with a Quickbeam was similar - upright bars (Albatross) and 
> using the ends of the bars made for a very quick, "twitchy", light steering 
> feel. I attribute this to two factors. The first, and IMO more important 
> one, is that my position on the bike was far more upright, resulting in 
> much less weight on the front wheel. The second is that my hands were much 
> farther from the steering axis.
>
> So, if a shorter top-tube and longer stem results in a) your position 
> being the same, and b) moving your hands closer to the steering axis (which 
> it would if on your current setup your hands at the ends of the bar are 
> behind the steering axis) then I'd expect a slight reduction in 
> twitchiness. I'd expect it to be maybe imperceptible, though, because the 
> change in hand distance to steering axis will be tiny, as the bigger factor 
> in that regard is the handlebar width.
>
> Hand distance from the steering axis does two things. First, it gives more 
> leverage, so less effort is required to put an equal amount of force into 
> turning the fork or (what's really important) changing the angle of the 
> bike relative to the ground (or resisting other forces trying to change the 
> angle to the ground). Second, the flip side of that, for a given amount of 
> fork rotation (or body/bike/ground angle changes) your hands have to move a 
> greater distance. It's worth noting, only because some things I've seen 
> written seem confused on this issue, that if you change the stem length and 
> also change the bars, such that your hands wind up in the same place 
> relative to the steering axis, you will have zero change on steering feel. 
> You can put a 1000mm stem on there and super long backward reaching bars 
> and your leverage won't have changed. The amount of flex in that system 
> will likely have changed though, and that could impact "feel" in other ways.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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[RBW] Tiller effect: could someone please explain?

[J J]

Hi, I have been really interested in the discussion on the thread "upright 
bars: how does shorter or longer stem affect steering 
" that 
eddietheflay initiated.

Joe mentioned the *"tiller effect,"* which is a new term to me. I looked it 
up and got something about steering a boat on water. Can someone please 
explain it as it relates to bicycle handling? 

(I'm starting this new thread so I don't derail eddietheflay's original 
one.)

Thanks!

Jim

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[RBW] Re: FS: BR-CX70 cantis, Silver2 shifters, Tektro CR720 cantis

[J J]

*Silver2 shifters have sold.* Thanks for all the interest!

On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 1:10:57 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> Please let me know via direct message if you're interested in any of 
> these. Thanks!
>
>
> *Shimano BR-CX70 cantilever brakes (set of two) - $80 shipped*
> I recently took these off my Hunq. Excellent mechanical condition. 
> Superficial wear.
>
> [image: Shimano BR-CX70 cantilever brakes.jpg]
>
> *Rivendell Silver2 shifters (set of two) - $45 shipped*
> These came off the Hunq, too. Excellent mechanical condition. All parts 
> present and intact.
>
> [image: Silver2 Rivendell shifters.jpg]
>
> *Tektro CR720 cantilever brakes **(set of two)** - $38 shipped*
> Took these off a recent bike purchase. Excellent condition.
>
> [image: Tektro CR720 cantilever brakes.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: tube tear at valve stem base — any ideas why and how to fix?

[J J]

Thanks, Garth and brainsarescary.

After riding about 50 miles on that wheel and tire, I’m happy to report 
that I did not experience another flat. I used the two-screw method, a 
valve screw inside and outside the rim, and I filed down the sharp edges of 
the valve stem hole with an off-brand Dremel-like rotary tool and a tapered 
sanding bit, per Garth’s suggestion. I also added a 2-inch long layer of 
bar tape (it’s what was handy) over the rim tape across the valve hole, and 
punched a hole in the tape. 

I believe I can conclude that the tube tear problem is solved. 

Thanks again to all for your help and feedback!

Jim
On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 1:58:52 PM UTC-4 brainsa...@gmail.com wrote:

> Sounds like a problem with the rim or rim tape. I'd replace the tape and 
> inspect the valve hole for any burrs or things like that.
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 12:23:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> #1: tubes degrade with age. My experience says "no," at least gauging 
>> "age" by single decades. Pre-sealant I routinely rode tubes with up to 3 
>> dozen patches accumulated over many years and they worked as well as new 
>> tubes. If a tube was 50 years old I'd look at it more than quickly and 
>> casually, but "old" applied to tubes, IME, is a very generous term.
>>
>> #2. Skinny tubes in fatter tires. For a while I used 23-25 mm tubes in 42 
>> mm tires and they worked well. The skinnies were ultralights, too. "Well" 
>> instead of "perfectly" because my use involved sealants and OS regular did 
>> not seal as well in a skinny tube against a goathead puncture as well as it 
>> does a 40 mm tube, also extralight -- the stretching must make the hole a 
>> bit bigger.
>>
>> But since punctures sans goatheads are, glass-strewn dowtown streets 
>> apart, so rare, skinnies in fatters can work well. (I've used 1" tubes in 
>> 2" tires and 26" tubes in 29" tires, briefly but successfully.
>>
>> Back to the initial query: IME, bad manufacturing can be a cause of such 
>> splits, but the OP had the problem with several different makes.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 12:10 PM Brian Turner  wrote:
>>
>>> These type of flats are basically the only flats I've received in the 
>>> past decade or so - mostly because I am very particular and adamant about 
>>> checking my air pressures before riding. As such, it has caused me to 
>>> retain tubes for probably longer than most folks, and I'm assuming that has 
>>> in turn led to issues with the tubes degrading there at the base of the 
>>> valve stems. That said, it is very odd that you had three such flats in the 
>>> same ride... very curious. I'm sorry that happened to you, and hopefully 
>>> you can find the source of the issue!
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Tire Recommendations

[J J]

Matthew, a couple of months ago I got a set of Schwalbe Marathon Efficiency 
 tires for my Hunq. 
It's a new line, with new-fangled compounds, etc. The 55mm (ETRTO 55-622) fit 
great on my Hunq with fenders, with room to spare. I've really enjoyed them. 

They're smooth on the road, robust, comfortable, and very reassuring. My riding 
skews consistently to the type of riding you described. I'm mostly on pavement, 
but these Efficiency tires have also been great on the sort of non-extreme 
gravel and dirt paths I ride on, at the decidedly "medium" tire pressure I run. 

They come in black wall and "transparent skin" — a very nice tan. I got tan for 
the one bike and I'm going to get a set of black for another. I recommend them. 
They're not as light as the G-One Overlands (but just as expensive!). I like 
them more than the other fancy tires I've ridden over the past couple of years.

Jim

> On Aug 9, 2023, at 3:49 PM, Irving  wrote:
> 
> I went through a similar exercise looking for tires to fit under SKS P65 
> fenders on my Rivendell Hunqapillar. I ended up with Maxxis Torch 29x2.1's 
> but they didn't offer me enough fender clearance. They felt like a high 
> quality tire though from my initial rides around the city to test clearance. 
> I ended up replacing them with Schwalbe Marathon Almotion's (VGuard's) 
>  and those measure 
> closer to 700x48 and feel slightly more durable but less grippy. Note they 
> have a reflective sidewall, so that may disqualify them from your "no 
> gumwalls or stripes!" disclaimer.
> 
> Maybe the Vittoria Terreno Dry (comes in 700x50) 
>  or the G-One 
> Superground as 
> other alternatives. The G-One overland seems fine if you're riding more dirt 
> than pavement. I would recommend against the Hurricane just because it's a 
> wire bead tire, which are generally less fun to ride in my opinion.
> 
> -Irving
> SF, CA
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 12:04:16 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:
>> Hi everyone, 
>> 
>> I need a new set of durable-ish, puncture-resistant tires.
>> 
>> Type of ride: Mostly long-distance rides on asphalt and concrete, and the 
>> occasional gravel or dirt path. 
>> 
>> Size: 700 x 50
>> 
>> Dealbreakers: I use tubes, and all-black sidewalls. No gumwalls or stripes!
>> 
>> I’m curretly looking at these two Schwalbe options:
>> 
>> G-One Overland:
>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/Schwalbe-G-One-Overland-11654399
>> 
>> Hurricane:
>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/Hurricane-11159185
>> 
>> Does anyone have experience with either of these tires? Are these good 
>> options? Or, can you make a recommendation for another tire that would work 
>> for me?
>> 
>> As always, your experience, wisdom, and advice are welcomed and appreciated.
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: tube tear at valve stem base — any ideas why and how to fix?

[J J]

Thank you, @Brian Turner

@Ian, I rechecked the tire carefully for splits and structural damage. 
Nothing.

@Patrick Moore, tubes with 36 patches!?! I'm very impressed. That reminds 
me of the Ship of Theseus paradox: if a tube has so many patches, is it 
still the same tube, and if it is not, at what point (i.e., which number of 
patches), did it cease being the original tube and become something else? 
:) Didn't all that patching cause a lumpy ride? As far as tube sizes, I 
have historically been pretty lax about matching tube size with tire size, 
and I haven't had trouble over the years. Bigger and smaller, they worked 
ok. In this case, though, the tubes were in the right parameters for the 
tires, except for the last narrow one I used. All of the tubes were fresh 
and new, nothing old that could have deteriorated.

@John P in SF, I was going to ask how you prevent a tube from rotating on 
the rim until I saw that your solution was to go tubeless. Tubeless is a 
nonstarter for me at this point because I don't feel like buying yet 
another set of wheels. All of my wheels are tube only. Plus my inner tube 
habits die hard. Also, I wasn't doing any hard braking. The flats happened 
on level pavement at a moderate pace.

@Jim in Rochester NY, interesting that additional pressure solved your 
problem. I was running normal for me pressure, medium, like I always do.

@iamkeith, your idea of using the nuts inside and outside makes so much 
sense. I will try it. It's consistent with what Rich Lesnik suggested to me 
separately, that valve holes can be sharp and cut the tubes. He suggested 
that I check the tape near the hole. It's plausible in light of the fact 
that the tears were all in the same place on the various tubes. 

So I will try the two-nut method, attempt to file or sand sharp edges or 
burrs on the valve hole itself, and check the liner tape. 

I'll report back here. But first I need to restock my spare tube supply 
just in case!

Thanks so much to all of you (and to Rich!) for the feedback and help. I 
very much appreciate it. 


On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:08:05 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> I began having this problem frequently, about 5 years ago.  Nothing else 
> about my skills or habits or rims changed from the previous four decades, 
> so I've concluded that there is likely a manufacturing issue.  
> Thinner/less/more brittle rubber at the base of the stem or something.  
> There have always been the occasional "slices" due to tube rotating around 
> the rim, or due to too-sharp edge at the valve stem hole on an aluminum 
> rim, but this is different, and happened like you describe, one tube after 
> another.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to fix them.
>
> Knowing that doesn't help solve your issue though.  Here's what I started 
> doing, and it's pretty much solved the issue for me:
>
> When you install a new tube, keep the knurled nut on the stem, snug it 
> lightly, and install the tube with the nut INSIDE of the rim.  Keep the nut 
> from the old tube, and intall on the outside of the rim, the normal way, 
> and snug firmly.  This will ensure that only the metal stem will ever 
> contact the sharp or abbrasive part of the hole in the rim, which is now 
> sandwiched between two nuts.
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 3:03:27 PM UTC-6 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I had the same thing John P describes, tire rotating in rim, tugging the 
>> tube along, causing the valve to tilt then tear at the base.  I also had it 
>> happen twice in a day until I decided I was running the tires at too low a 
>> pressure.  Increasing PSI solved the problem.  
>>
>> Jim in Rochester NY
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 4:13:13 PM UTC-4 John P. in SF wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> If what is happening to you is what happened to me, your tire is 
>>> rotating on the rim. 
>>>
>>> This sometimes happened when I was using an undersized tube like Patrick 
>>> M. mentioned, but it happened a lot to me when using modern tires on older 
>>> rims, and less when using a tubeless compatible rim. Flats generally 
>>> occurred when riding somewhere that involved heavy braking, and occurred on 
>>> around three different bikes I have or have had. Like the one time I got a 
>>> front flat at this spot 
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8275685,-122.5030476,3a,75y,255.79h,85.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWDi65VsGmuS7PLyVeiu63g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu>.
>>>   
>>> I sometimes speculate that the rim heating up somehow aids with making the 
>>> tire rotate, which then tears the stem, but that is just a guess.
>>>
>>> Moving to a tubeless setup was the only cure I found.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 9

[RBW] Re: tube tear at valve stem base — any ideas why and how to fix?

[J J]

Thanks, Ryan. Yes, the narrower tube got me home, but by that point it was 
only a short 1.5 miles away. I'm not confident that the narrow tube will be 
ok on a greater distance because I burned through three tubes of varying 
makes and specs. I'm riding different wheels until I sort this out.

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 1:37:36 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> I'll be interested to hear what others say about this...I should check my 
> X0-1's inner tubes  which has been plagued with mysterious flats and at no 
> time have I been able to find anything embedded in the tire or issues with 
> the rim i.e. protruding spokes. In a lot of cases, I would make it home 
> from the ride , but when I went on a ride the next day, the front or rear 
> tire would be flat. Tires are 26 X 1.5 Compass McClure Pass and I've been 
> cursing them , probably unfairly.
>
> Interesting that the tube specced for a narrower tire got you home and I 
> assume it's still not causing flats?
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:54:21 AM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> Hi, I was inspired by Matthew's "Patch or Replace Tire" thread, but 
>> didn't want to usurp it with my question/issue, so I'm starting a new one. 
>>
>> My tire went flat during a recent ride on my Hunq. Upon inspection I saw 
>> that there was a tear near where the valve stem attaches to the inner tube. 
>> No biggie. I replaced the tube with a spare, got back to riding, but within 
>> 15 minutes, another flat. Same tear in the same location. I replaced the 
>> tube with yet another spare. This was starting to feel weird. The same 
>> thing happened within a few more miles, another tube gone. 
>>
>> I had no more spare tubes, but a buddy gave me one that is specced for 
>> narrower tires. I managed to get back home without incident.
>>
>> The attached pic shows where the tear occurred in each instance.
>>
>> But three flats on a single ride! I replaced the tubes the way I always 
>> do. Nothing dramatic about it. I used a pump to inflate two, and a C02 
>> cartridge to inflate another. I snugged the valve nut like I always do, not 
>> too tight, not too loose. I handled the valve stem carefully, no jerking or 
>> bending it. The air pressure was about medium, not too high, not too low. 
>>
>> I used three different types of tubes, one a Schwalbe, another was a 
>> no-name, and the other was a Teravail. I inspected the 50mm Schwalbe 
>> Marathon tire carefully and found nothing of concern, no glass, screws, 
>> metal, shards, etc. The Lesnik-built wheel itself had run fine for many, 
>> many miles with no issues, no flats, nothing, and is in excellent 
>> condition. I had been riding on smooth pavement when the flats occurred, 
>> and there was nothing remarkable on the road.
>>
>> But suddenly, on that day, all inner tube hell broke loose. I'm stumped. 
>> I don't know what to do differently so I've been thinking about the saying 
>> (misattributed to Einstein): "Insanity is doing the same thing over and 
>> over again and expecting different results."
>>
>> I'd be grateful for any ideas you might have or experiences you can 
>> share. 
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_8384.jpg]
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride report & Gus joy

[J J]

Great report and great pics. Thanks Richard. Your Gus looks and sounds like 
fantastic fun. That’s what it’s all about. 

> On Jul 24, 2023, at 11:58 AM, Richard Rose  wrote:
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/LxcQTboPypPcMp5aA
> 
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 11:54:52 AM UTC-4 Richard Rose wrote:
>> Greetings all. I am just back from a glorious  two night bikepacking 
>> adventure on my Gus and just had to share. This was a loosely organized by 
>> invite gathering of mostly Ann Arbor area folks & titled "Meet me in 
>> Manchester". I drove from my  home in Toledo to meet up with three other 
>> riders travelling from the amazing Sic Transit bike shop in Ann Arbor to our 
>> host campsite in Manchester, Michigan. Ours was a lovely 28 mile chill paced 
>> ride over mostly smoothish gravel, rolling roads. We set up camp on arrival 
>> and once settled in the five of us wedged ourselves into our host's Ford 
>> Fiesta for the short drive into Chelsea, Michigan for a wonderful meal/brew. 
>> Once back at camp we settled in for the big event on Saturday - choosing one 
>> of four carefully sorted routes ranging from 27-85 miles. I joined one other 
>> for the 48 mile route. Gus & I found our groove on this gorgeous bike ride 
>> over more perfect, mostly gravel roads through beautiful rural countryside. 
>> We even found a little dirt / sandy two track - my favorite section. The 
>> route passed through Chelsea for another nice mid-ride meal & the ride back 
>> to camp just kept getting better. Beautiful blue sky, rolling crop fields, 
>> cool old barns & perfect gravel hills are tough to beat. By the time we 
>> returned to camp another dozen or so folks had arrived who did not have time 
>> to do the full three days. Pizza, beer, frisbee (with Nate's cherished 
>> Rivendell Frisbee) pond swimming, dog playing & giant bonfire all happened. 
>> Another night under a clear, star filled sky and a well earned sleep. Sunday 
>> morning's ride back to Ann Arbor was a shorter (22 mike) route but still 
>> beautiful & at times a bit more spirited. Every single time I crested 
>> another gravel covered hill I got giddy as a child getting to descend on the 
>> Gus. The gravel could get a bit loose but the Gus on 2.6" tires hardly 
>> noticed. The last few miles entering Ann Arbor through quiet neighborhoods 
>> was very pleasant. Ann Arbor is really a nice place to be on a bike. It is 
>> very bike friendly in my estimation. Very nice with the exception of it 
>> being the home of that awful team "up north".:)
>> I was really on the fence choosing between my Gus and the Clem L. My mind 
>> was telling me to take the Clem which weighs 2 pounds less and has the 
>> smaller 55mm tires. Logic suggested the Clem might be better for the hills. 
>> I've been on loaded rides with the Clem and had no complaints. But, the Gus 
>> is new bike and I just had a hankering to take it instead. It was not a bad 
>> decision. The 2.6" tires devour gravel. The comfort level on the Gus is 
>> unworldly to me, maybe even more so than the Clem. For me long chainstay 
>> bikes are "it". Zero drawbacks and so many advantages for my riding. It is a 
>> heavy bike, no getting around that fact. But the weight simply disappears 
>> when riding and oh how I love my 2 x 7 setup. The front derailleur is a joy 
>> to use, taking me back to a time before my bikes had 1x drivetrains. And, I 
>> may never ride another bike not Bosco equipped. Comfort is king.:)
>> All in all a really great experience that I look forward to repeating. Link 
>> to pics to follow...
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Tried and liked: Suntour Cyclone pretzel

[J J]

Wow... the most important thing is that you're fine, Eric. The bike stuff 
is "just" bike stuff, repairable or replaceable.

I saw your subject line and glanced at the pic before reading your story, 
and at first I thought, "dang, did he get that thing to actually work?!?"

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 5:30:46 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Dustin: To answer your question, hell no! 
>
> Ted: Gonna text the frame builder I know tomorrow. 
>
> Jared: Thanks! I'll share again when I have some updates. 
>
> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 4:01:11 PM UTC-4 jaredwilson wrote:
>
>> Yikes, that looks like a mess! 
>>
>> Glad you're okay and it's now another part of that Sam's history.
>>
>> Looking forward to seeing your repair updates.
>>
>> jared
>>
>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:32:48 PM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, I’m glad to hear that it was only a minor tumble, but I’m sorry to 
>>> hear about the derailler… again. That’s quite the pretzel you’ve made, 
>>> though! I’m not sure I’ve seen such, save for deraillers that went through 
>>> a far more severe crash.
>>>
>>> I might be crazy, but restoring a busted up mech like that actually 
>>> sounds like it would be a fun challenge. Hope the hanger can be fixed with 
>>> minimal fuss but I think you may be right, a frame builder might be needed 
>>> here. It always baffled me that Riv didn’t adopt replaceable hangers at 
>>> some point along the line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 3:20 PM D D  wrote:
>>>
 Eric,

 Sorry to hear about your misadventure. Thanks for the photo of the 
 pretzel. Did the photo you originally pulled over to take turn out to be 
 worth it?  

 Dustin in VA

 On Jul 23, 2023, at 3:13 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:

 
 Hey gang — I was out for a Sunday ride and stopped to take a picture. I 
 rolled to the side of the road and did not see the culvert, hidden with 
 fresh grass clippings. I tumbled over at low speed. I'm fine! 

 When I stood up I noticed my drive-side bar end shifter had rotated 
 90º. And my derailer hanger and the derailer were bent. I spun the crank 
 while off the bike and it seemed to move okay so I thought I'd give it a 
 go 
 as a single speed. 

 I pedaled for a few strokes, then nudged the shifter. It was at that 
 time the derailer turned upside down and inside out, bending into the 
 spokes and throwing the chain. It was really fun!

 


 This is my Hillborne, my most-ridden bike. I'll see if the hanger can 
 be bent but I have a feeling it will require some work from a frame 
 builder. That's a Suntour Cyclone. Fortunately I have five of them 
 (including this one). You might recall the cage tension spring in my 
 previous Cyclone recently failed. This is one of the replacements I picked 
 up. It was in excellent shape but now it's going to the salvage bin. 

 While I was waiting for a ride four people stopped to ask if they could 
 help me. One was a cyclist who said "You need anything?" I replied "I 
 need derailer hanger, a rear mech and a welding torch!"

 Hope your weekend rides weren't so mechanically eventful. 

 Eric

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 .

>>> -- 
>>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Blue Lug cycle work cap, Shimano BL-R400 brake levers

[J J]

Hi, bump on the Blue Lug hat. It's still available despite tons of 
interest. Two commitments didn't pan out. Let me know, it's a great hat!

The R400 brake levers are *sold*.

Thanks!

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 12:02:30 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> A couple of items for sale. Please reach out directly if you're interested.
>
>
> *Blue Lug original cycle work cap – Olive/cotton (new, $45 shipped conus)*
> This cap is brand new with tag. I tried it on for a few seconds. I prefer 
> looser fitting caps and hats. This wasn't comfortably big enough for me, 
> though it is "one size fits all". 
> [image: Blue Lug cycle hat 1.jpg]
> [image: Blue Lug cycle hat 3.jpg]
>
> *Shimano BL-R400 brake levers ($29 shipped conus)*
> Excellent mechanical condition, used only for a few short rides; 23.8-24.2 
> mm clamp band. I bought them with the marks on the light grey plastic. 
> Functionality 100 percent like new.
> [image: Shimano BL-R400 levers 1.jpg]
> [image: Shimano BL-R400 levers 2.jpg]
> [image: Shimano BL-R400 levers 3.jpg]
>
> Thanks! 
> Jim
>
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: Nitto racks, Shimano hubs, Paul Racer, Nitto and VO bottle cage mounts, Shimano derailers

[J J]

Thanks, Vern. I have replied to you directly, off list. Check your 
spam/junk if you haven't seen email from me. Thanks again.

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:36:35 PM UTC-4 plumber...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interested in the 32r but wondering where you’re located?
>
> I imagine shipping would be pretty expensive.
>
> Thanks,
> Vern
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:34 PM J J  wrote:
>
>> Hi, I'm trying to lighten my parts overload. These are items I decided 
>> not use. Please let me know privately if you're interested in anything. I 
>> have included one photo that pictures everything. Thanks!
>>
>>1. *Rivendell Nitto 32R Campee rear rack*, mounted but not ridden, 
>>like new*. $190* (It's $252 from Riv, and they've been sold out for a 
>>while) 
>>2. *Rivendell Nitto 32F Campee front rack*, brand new, never mounted.* 
>>$130* (It's $140 and sold out everywhere.)
>>3. *Nitto Bottle Cage holder/mount (BH-01),* has dual clamps for 22.2 
>>and 26 handlebars. A beautiful, functional, unusual piece, in typical 
>>uncompromising Nitto quality. New in package.* $36*
>>4. *Velo Orange bottle cage mount*, similar idea to the Nitto, fits 
>>up to 25.4, new in package. *$10*. 
>>5. *Paul Components Racer center pull brake*, silver, rear, recessed. 
>>New in box, never installed, with salmon pads, straddle cable, purple 
>> cable 
>>cap, and cable carrier. *$145* 
>>6. *Shimano XTR HB-M900 36H front hub*, beautiful classic XTR, new 
>>old stock, some minor storage marks. No skewer. $100
>>7. *Shimano Deore XT HB-M737 32H Parallax front hub*, another shiny 
>>classic, new old stock, no skewer *$25*.  
>>8. *Shimano XTR HB-M9110 32H center lock front hub*. Unusual in this 
>>group. A fantastic hub at a great price. New in package. *$98*
>>9. *Shimano Deore RD-M591, 9-speed silver rear derailer*, Riv sold 
>>countless 591s on standard builds. High normal, lightly used, great 
>>condition. *$32*
>>10. *Shimano Deore XT FD-M739 front derailer*, 31.8 clamp, well used 
>>but not beat up, functionally perfect. *$10 or free with $100 
>>purchase*. 
>>
>> Buyer pays shipping, conus only, Apple Pay (preferred), Venmo, or PayPal 
>> FF. 
>>
>> [image: parts to sell.jpg]
>>
>>  
>>
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>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Derailer Question - XTR-951

[J J]

Max, the M951 will work fine with both 8-speed and 9-speed. 

(Shimano technically called the M951 an 8-speed. And when they came out 
with the M953 Rapid Rise they called the latter 9-speed.)  


On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 3:40:02 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:

> I just picked up a 951 rapid rise derailer on Ebay. The listing said it's 
> an 8-speed. I figured it might just be that's how the seller had it set up 
> - I plan to use it on my 9 speed setup.
>
> Then I bumped into someone selling 9sp pulleys for an XTR derailer, which 
> got me wondering - do 951's have a specific 8sp or 9sp spec?  If they do, 
> is it because of different pulleys? Or are they all the same and work for 8 
> or 9?
>
> Thanks
> Max
>
>
>

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[RBW] asking about the rack Re: FS Nitto large rear rack $135

[J J]

Hey Ed,

I'm interested in this rack (and I live in DC, Dupont area). 

Do you by chance have all of the mounting hardware that comes with it new?

Thanks,

Jim

> On Jun 12, 2023, at 9:00 AM, Ed Felker  wrote:
> 
> I have a gently used single-rail Nitto large rear rack for sale that I 
> purchased from Rivendell. Size is 33.6 cm from the lower mount hole to the 
> top of the rail, so this appears to be the same size as the current 33R. 
> 
> It got some use on my 700c wheel 58cm Atlantis for mostly in-town rides, and 
> shows a couple spots of light discoloring where the Ortlieb pannier was 
> mounted. Also included is a Nitto 3-hole rear light adapter.
> 
> Price is $135 plus actual shipping cost via UPS or I can meet up in the D.C. 
> area for free. Photos here: https://tinyurl.com/4x4w8w3n
> 
> Ed Felker
> Washington DC 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell paint color repetition: Your thoughts

[J J]

In an ocean of charcoal, slate, and black bikes, I just appreciate the wide 
range of colors Rivendell puts on their bikes. 

However, I have what I think is a minority opinion: I’m about 75 percent in 
favor of no more than two specific colors for specific models (**with 
exceptions for custom paint jobs, which are at the buyer’s discretion, with 
Riv’s final approval of course**). The production colors become part of a 
particular model's “brand" or visual identity. This is important.

For example, it’s hard to imagine Atlantis production models in any color other 
than the Atlantis blue/green… even though there are Atlantises painted in 
lovely one-off colors. It would be odd if any other production model were 
painted in the Atlantis color. The Atlantis geometry has changed tremendously 
over the years. You might even say that the Atlantis green/blue *is itself* a 
huge part of the Atlantis brand because the color has been a constant through 
the various Atlantis permutations.

Another example: I like that Hunqs came in two color schemes: the early runs 
were grey and kidney bean red, and the later runs were green. Now Joe’s 
fantastic custom was inspired by the grey and red Hunq scheme. But it’s a 
custom, a one-off, slightly different, and ultimately it was Joe’s prerogative. 
He made a very tasteful choice. 

I think the Platypus was the first model in mermaid (?). Anyway, when I see 
mermaid I think Platypus, not Gus or anything else. I don’t get why any model 
other than the Platypus should be in mermaid! It’s a strong brand association. 
The lovely  sparkly raspberry of Leah’s Platypus, being a unique one off, does 
not weaken the Platypus mermaid brand because raspberry was not a production 
color.

And as much as I like the lovely olive green as a color, the number of models 
in this green suggests brand confusion and inconsistency. 

I do think that variations of similar colors across model is fine. They should 
be different enough not to confuse them, though.  

Like I said, my opinion is probably in the small minority.


> On Apr 24, 2023, at 6:48 PM, Wyatt  wrote:
> 
> Have to say whatever they're doing with the paint is right. Next Riv I get 
> will be 50% because I want a frame with that mermaid green.
> 
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 5:29:55 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> Wait, the Platys are coming in silver soon? Crap, I guess good thing I just 
>> got my Charlie back or I'd be dropping a bunch of money for that. 
>> 
>> I'm late to the conversation, but my read is that Grant & co spend a lot 
>> more time on color selection than is business-smart to do so, because they 
>> want it to be exactly right - so when they get one that passes a vote, they 
>> hang onto it. As for my opinion about it, I like how they do it because if 
>> you love a certain color, you just have to be patient for it to come to your 
>> preferred model - or, conversely, if you like a model but not the available 
>> colors, you'll hopefully be accommodated on the next batch.  I do think that 
>> colors should be retired every few years for new ones though! 
>> 
>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:56:19 UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>>> Yes, Joe...you have a great color scheme there...which is a good thing 
>>> because we see a lot of it...and  that's totally OK. I like looking at it
>>> 
>>> I really like the harvest gold; got it in 2001 when it was fairly unusual, 
>>> but offered as a custom color. Looks different depending on light(sunlight 
>>> vs cloud). I agree with Laing that a butter yellow would be great, 
>>> especially if it had panels and headtube in a root beer or coffee color. 
>>> The standard cream would get lost because there's not enough contrast. I 
>>> absolutely do not need  another custom but if I were in the market and Riv 
>>> still offered customs, I think that I could go for that.
>>> 
>>> I do like Leah's Raspberry and that mermaid color is quite attractive too. 
>>> 
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 10:48:21 AM UTC-5 Miles T wrote:
 I’m a sucker for metallic colors… it’s like you get 2 for 1. A metallic 
 colored bike looks totally different in overcast weather vs a sunny day. 
 But the solid colors are great too. That dark green on the Clem “H” models 
 a while back is one of my favorite colors on any riv. At this point, they 
 have a wide selection of colors and I like seeing them pop up on different 
 models over time.
 
 I love that scheme on your custom, Joe. Especially that cream outline on 
 the red accents. 
 
 On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:39:47 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
> I'll throw down for the gloss non-metallics here cuz it's what I chose 
> for my custom. I like it!* 
> 
> *I like metallics, too. I'm easy 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 7:48:02 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com <> wrote:
>> Crust Bombora owner here, so I have no reservations whatsoever about 
>> pink / lilac / weird colored 

Re: [RBW] FS: Blue Lug hat, new Nitto lugged and M18 rack, Brooks B17, XTR bits, Makeshifter Canvas Works bag, etc.

[J J]

*Hello, a final bump with additional discounts for unsold items. Please see 
details down the thread and don't hesitate to ask any questions off list. 
Thanks! — **Jim* 

   - Brooks B17 classic black saddle (new in package) — *was $105 ––> $95 
   ---> **now $90*
   - Nitto-Rivendell Lugged Seat Post 27.2 x 300 (new in package) — *was 
   $158 ––> $140 ---> now $130*
   - Nitto-Rivendell Lugged Stem 190mm quill, 80mm reach (new in package) — 
*was 
   $200 ––> $180 -**--> now $175*
   - Shimano XTR CS-M950 Cassette 12-32 tooth 8-speed (new in package) — *was 
   $300 ––> $245 ---> now $235*



On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 2:52:43 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

Hi folks. Bump and discounts on unsold items. Please respond privately off 
list. Details and photos in the thread below. Please feel free to reach out 
with questions. Thanks to all. 

   - Brooks B17 classic black saddle (new in package) — *was $105, now $95*
   - Nitto-Rivendell Lugged Seat Post 27.2 x 300 (new in package) — *was 
   $158, now $140*
   - Nitto-Rivendell Lugged Stem 190mm quill, 80mm reach (new in package) — 
*was 
   $200, now $180*
   - Shimano XTR CS-M950 Cassette 12-32 tooth 8-speed (new in package, 
   never installed) — *was $300, now $245*
   - *SOLD Makeshifter Canvas Works Out + Back Handlebar Bag (tan, new) — 
   was $195, now $185*
   

On Mar 24, 2023, at 12:47, J J  wrote:



Parts bin purge, spring cleaning edition. Please respond privately if 
you're interested in anything. Let me know if you want multiple items, 
happy to make a package deal. Additional pics here 
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xJ1F4zUcrHG-CeIIrRHDDIpT58plgR1D/view?usp=share_link>.
 
Thanks very much! 

*SOLD Blue Lug Work Hat, olive (new) — $45*

Bought for $58 
<https://the-inconvenience-store.com/products/blue-lug-cycle-work-hat?variant=40071878246488>.
 
One size fits all. Tried it on once. 



*SOLD **Tektro CR720 Cantilever brakes (full set for two wheels, excellent 
cond.) — $25*

I bought these powerful brakes from a list member. I decided not to use 
them. 




*Brooks B17 classic black saddle (new in package) — $105*
I have come to prefer B67s so the B17 is redundant.




*Nitto-Rivendell Lugged Seat Post 27.2 x 250 (new in package) — $158*
Bought for $184. Not going to use it. Who knows for how much longer we’ll 
be able to get the lugged seat posts and stems, with Riv and others warning 
about limited Nitto supplies. 




*Nitto-Rivendell Lugged Stem 190mm quill, 80mm reach (new in package) — 
$200*
Bought for $240. Not going to use it. 



*SOLD **Shimano Sora 9-speed trigger shifters, left and right set 
(excellent cond.) — $45*

Bought for $120. Took these off a Wilbury and installed Dura-Ace bar ends 
instead.



*SOLD **XTR M951 V Brake (one brake, front or rear) (excellent cond.) — $65*

Was going to run this brake up front and a canti in the back, but I prefer 
how cantis look.




*XTR M950 Cassette 12-32 tooth 8-speed (new in package, never installed) — 
$300*

Fancy, some titanium sprockets, remarkably light. I have streamlined and 
standardized all my bikes on 9-speed with a 36 tooth big sprocket, so I 
won’t be using this. 



*CLAIMED **XT M739 front derailleur, top pull (well used but functions 
great) — Free with any purchase, just ask*



*SOLD **Nitto M18 Front Rack with diving board (new) — $100*

I bought two and love them. I don’t need this second one. 



*SOLD **Makeshifter Canvas Works Out + Back Handlebar Bag (tan, new) — $195*
Bought for $215-plus. Made by Becky Newman in Portland. One-woman shop. 
This color has been sold out for a while. Didn’t quite jibe with the 
handlebar and cables. I bought the predecessor matching saddlebag from a 
list member and the quality is outstanding. Becky is great and her work is 
beautiful!




*Prices do not include shipping.*

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Watch our for scammers in the group

[J J]

I sold the Blue Lug bucket hat to a list member, and was sorry to hear you 
were subjected to that, Johnny.

I’ve bought and sold a decent number of items since I’ve been hanging out 
here and I've never had any problems either way. Nothing even hinted of a 
scam attempt.

I try to err on the side of giving too much info about the stuff I sell. 
There should be no surprises for a buyer. I’ve found folks buying and 
selling through this forum super friendly, civil, and laid back. I’ve 
struck up some very nice correspondences and phone chats with like-minded 
bike and Rivendell nerds. It was clear folks were genuinely interested in 
the items.

(An aside: I was surprised by the volume of email I got about the Blue Lug 
hat. Who knew it was such a hot item? Too bad it was just a tad small for 
my head!)

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 10:08:15 AM UTC-4 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’ve never had problems with members here but I have been reached out by 
> names I don’t recognize. Usually they just ended up never responding. I 
> think they fell under the lurker/non-participant category and not the 
> unknown scammer category. 
>
> I’m a member of another forum that is HUGE. Too big for it to be enjoyable 
> sometimes. But on that forum they have what’s called a “Good Trader” thread 
> and it’s a thread where folks can post about positive experiences with 
> other folks they done transactions with. Maybe we can start one of those…
>
> It’s disheartening to hear that scammers have found their way here but a 
> quick search on past posts is enough to put my mind at ease when dealing 
> with sellers or buyers. 
>
> Joe in Los Angeles
> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 6:58:51 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> For the record I've never had this problem and I've sold a ton of stuff 
>> here over the years. I try to describe my parts and pricing clearly and 
>> post photos, I'll get a couple questions - usually them trying to work out 
>> if the item will fit their use case well - and it sells or they bow out. 
>> Not much grief for me from the list. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 4:59:57 AM UTC-7 captaincon...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, lots of lurkers here.  I recently have had issues with questionable 
>>> PayPal payments and having unknown quantities ask a bunch of questions 
>>> about FS: items then disappear.  I actually prefer just selling on eBay now 
>>> because of the grief associated with the list.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 6:43:26 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Peter — This RBW group and all posts are visible to people who are not 
 members. Individuals' email addresses are hidden by Groups when posting. 
 However, if a poster includes their email address in the text of their 
 message it remains visible. 

 In my experience iBOB and the CR groups are not visible unless you're a 
 member. 

 When I receive emails about items that I've listed for sale from names 
 I don't recognize the first thing I do is search their email address in 
 the 
 forum. If they haven't posted or shared to the group I often ignore the 
 request. 

 On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 3:06:48 PM UTC-4 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Is this group readable by non-members? I know that Google Groups has 
> settings that allow an administrator to block reading to anyone who's not 
> an authorized member, or at least such settings used to exist; the 
> Classic 
> Rendezvous group uses them. They may be a holdover from some older era of 
> group settings.
>
> There are obviously drawbacks from locking the group off from outside 
> observers, mostly that you'll get fewer new members if you don't offer a 
> free taste. But it would cut down on email harvesting.
>
> Peter "eternally vigilant, and not at all paranoid, no no no" Adler
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:20:14 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> Just as a PSA, I have had no prior issues with getting contacted on 
> this group so wanted to let everyone know that it can and does happen 
> even 
> in trusted groups.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bombadil - first ride and work in progress (some photos)

[J J]

Thanks for the report and photos, Max. Beautiful build on a rare beast. It 
looks like so much fun. Enjoy!


> On Mar 27, 2023, at 12:11 PM, maxcr  wrote:
> 
> The weather is turning and I finally "finished" my Bombadil build. It's not 
> quite finished because I'm not 100% sure I'll keep the Bullmoose handlebars - 
> they are very stiff which is great, but the angle isn't ideal for my wrists, 
> we'll see but I think the Jones bar is more comfortable for me. I might also 
> explore a super wide drop from Crust called the Nullabar. I'm also curious 
> about some drivetrain changes, more on that in a future thread.
> 
> I acquired the bike in January from a fellow in California who didn't seem to 
> be riding it much. This is how it came:
> 
> 
> 
> I've started feeling more comfortable wrenching on my bikes (thanks Jason for 
> the encouragement!) and did all of the work myself - ordering some parts from 
> Riv, BlueLug and Crust. You've seen some pics over the last couple of months, 
> but I want to officially introduce it in its new iteration. 
> 
> Yesterday I went out on a mixed terrain ride, first some pavement before 
> arriving to the Middlesex Fells, a reservation with lots of trails and bike 
> friendly gravel - I started following this route from UrbanDirt 
>  (pretty cool site with hubs in 
> a few cities) but didn't finish it because i had to get back home. They have 
> some really cool Ride-with-GPS routes you can follow, highly recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> After getting to the entrance of the Fells, I started thinking that perhaps 
> this wasn't ideal for my slick tires and fenders. Many of the trails had big 
> rocks and require you to dismount and walk (see below) but I guess that's 
> part of the fun so I kept going.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I walked up the slope and then started riding a winding gravel path with some 
> smaller rocks. There were some wet / muddy patches but overall it was all 
> very enjoyable and the bike handled great.
> 
> <4EEC3310-9B05-419E-9A9D-3B2F0A9E8D1D.jpeg>
> 
> 
> 
> I think the cockpit is ideal for this type of riding, which leaves me wishing 
> the wrist position would be an issue. I'll give it more miles before deciding 
> what to do.
> 
> I had to lower the bar quite a bit from my initial position because I wanted 
> to use my Rod Steward (Pec Deck v2) and if I had the bars higher up, it just 
> wouldn't reach. I'll take it off and try with the bars higher. It's also very 
> close to the Paul canti arms, so maybe not the best fit for this build.
> 
> 
> 
> When I stopped following the route and started following my GPS to get home, 
> I ended up going through some areas that weren't very bike friendly - after 
> the photo below. I had to carry the bike up a slope and ended up in a place 
> with huge rocks. Once I crossed I rode a bit more and hit the main road which 
> brought me back home.
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, the bike was amazing throughout the 13.5 mile ride. I feel 
> incredibly lucky to have found this rare 2TT on my size! Can't wait to go out 
> again.
> 
> Max near Boston.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Let's talk about the All Rounder

[J J]

Yep. Here's what was in the Atlantis brochure:

"Notice the front rack clamps on. Why no braze-on? Because different front 
racks have different braze-on locations, and we didn't want to rule out any 
front rack. The clamps work fine, and are compatible with any rack." 

> On Mar 22, 2023, at 10:53 PM, rltil...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> When I ordered my custom Riv I requested mounts for a front rack. Grant 
> stated it was tough to place the braze-ons since each rack has unique 
> attachment points. We settled on a location that works with the Nitto mini 
> rack.  
> 
> So maybe Grant feels p-clamps are able to work around various rack mounting 
> positions?
> 
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2023, at 5:27 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I’d be curious to hear what sort of justification Grant had for claiming 
>> that p-clamps were superior to actual mid-fork braze ons. To me, a fixed 
>> mounting point seems like a secure no-brainer… less fiddly bits, no 
>> unsightly black rubber, and it looks so much cleaner.
>> 
>> But then again, it wouldn’t surprise me either way.
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2023, at 8:15 PM, Junes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi m f, welcome! Congrats on the bike. 
>>> 
>>> Regarding your question: 
>>> 
>>> It seems odd to find an All Rounder, or any Riv for that matter, without 
>>> rack mounts on the upper/mid fork blade. Would this have been a special 
>>> request to not have them?
>>> 
>>> It’s not totally unusual for Rivs, particularly early-ish ones, to have 
>>> forks devoid of rack mount eyelets. Two of my Rivs don’t have them, one an 
>>> Atlantis, explicitly positioned as an all-rounder, and one a Glorius. 
>>> (Incidentally both were Toyo built.) In an early Atlantis brochure, Grant 
>>> even wrote that a lack of such fork eyelets is better because using clamps 
>>> to attach rack struts to forks is superior. All recent Rivs have eyelets 
>>> galore, though.  
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2023, at 19:08, Andrew Letton  wrote:
 
 
 Nice bike!
 My All-Rounder and Road Standard have Joe Bell paint and both have the JB 
 logo on the left chainstay like this:
 
 <1679526443662blob.jpg>
 
 
 
 cheers,
 Andrew in Sydney
 
 
 
 On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:03:03 AM GMT+11, m f 
  wrote:
 
 
 Hi - I'm new here! Not sure how many of you saw this on eBay over the past 
 few months, but I was able to work with the seller and found a way to buy 
 this 2000 All-Rounder (Curt Goodrich). I have a couple updates in mind 
 (sweptback handlebar, Brooks saddle), but those will happen with time. 
 First step will be new tires and tuning the mechanicals (Dura Ace except 
 for crankset) so I can get a ride or two under my belt. If the seller is 
 in this group - thanks again for all the help!
 
 Questions for the group: 
 It seems odd to find an All Rounder, or any Riv for that matter, without 
 rack mounts on the upper/mid fork blade. Would this have been a special 
 request to not have them?
 What are the markers that indicate the frame was painted at Joe Bell's 
 shop?
 
 
 
 
 On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 8:09:10 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
 The All Rounder like the XO-1 before it gets a lot of interest and praise, 
 but I think that, like the XO-1 that preceeded it, it is an early design 
 that has been superseded and bettered by later Grantian bikes, starting 
 with the Atlantis and continuing with the Sam Hillborne and doubtless the 
 more recent models.
 
 I say this having owned an XO-1 and having bought a custom Road based on 
 the All Rounder, with lighter (753) tubing and slightly more upright hta 
 (IIRC). My 1999 and 2003 Road customs, also built for 26" wheels, are 
 better "All Round" both on pavement and in dirt than either XO-1 and the 
 first Road custom, with much longer chainstays, slightly sacker head, and 
 upsloping tts with extended head tubes. 
 
 I say again that the later Road customs ride better on dirt, particularly 
 sandy surfaces, than the XO-1 and the first gen, AR-based road custom.
 
 I think -- but I am open to reasoned rebuttal -- that an Atlantis or Sam 
 Hill would be better for all round riding than either XOs or ARs.
 
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[RBW] Re: Trigger Shifter Question

[J J]

Hi Justin. You can definitely mix and match. You can use pretty much any 
Shimano trigger shifter with any Shimano rear derailleur as long as the 
number of shifter speeds corresponds to the number of cassette gears. There 
are a few exceptions, like vintage Shimano or too low or too high number of 
speeds. But for the stuff Rivendell sells, the various shifters are 
compatible with the various derailleurs. They do not have to be part of the 
same group. The derailleurs themselves don't care about which mechanism is 
actuating the cable travel. Just be sure the number of speeds on the 
shifters matches the number of cassette sprockets: 8-speed shifter with 
8-speed cassette, 9-speed shifter with 9-speed cassette, etc. for proper 
indexing. And if you happen to run the trigger shifter with a Rapid Rise 
derailleur, the numbers on the shifter indicators will be reversed relative 
to non-Rapid Rise (1 will be 9, 2 will be 8, etc.), but otherwise the 
shifting will function the same. 
On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:39:21 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, 
NY) wrote:

> I've always used friction shifters but am thinking about putting a trigger 
> shifter on a new cargo bike build. So apologies in advance if this is a 
> stupid question, but...Do you have to use the corresponding rear 
> derailleur/groupset for a particular shifter? Or can you mix and match? 
>
> For instance, Riv sells 5-6 different shifters 
>  (Sora, Alivio, Acera, 
> Altus, Claris, etc.). If I buy, say, the Altus, can I only use it with an 
> Altus RD? 
>
> Thanks in advance-
>

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[RBW] Re: Signing up for Scary Things: Intro to Bike Mechanics

[J J]

Great story, thank you Leah. Bike repair and maintenance is a forever 
learning process, but I don’t want to mess with spoke tension, truing 
wheels, or building wheels up from scratch. These are skills I deeply 
admire in other folks.
On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 12:30:47 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Wonderful, and yes I can relate.
>
> On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 9:30:45 AM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a wonderful class. I wonder if you’ll start riding towards 
>> the potholes or if you hear a noise just think “I might be able to fix 
>> that!”  I’m going to look for a local class like that. 
>>
>> On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 9:31:40 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> It’s winter here in Michigan and business at the local bike shop is 
>>> slow. The shop had a brilliant idea to host a class for a small number of 
>>> students to teach basic bicycle maintenance/mechanics. Students were to 
>>> bring their own bikes, which was wonderful because we would learn to work 
>>> on what we actually have. Our teacher was quietly brilliant, extremely 
>>> patient, and, well, dreamy. (I would love to set him up with my friend from 
>>> my women’s club ride and then be in their wedding. Unable to ascertain his 
>>> marital status without committing harassment, I am still in the throes of 
>>> scheming.)
>>>
>>> I digress! 
>>>
>>> He taught us how the shop gives each bike a once-over. It’s an M shape, 
>>> starting at the front wheel, going up to the bars, down to the pedal/chain 
>>> ring, up to the saddle and down to that rear wheel. From there we moved on 
>>> to wheel truing, derailleurs and shifters, and finally, brakes. 
>>>
>>> There were three of us in the class; one aluminum Trek with flat bars, a 
>>> steel Jamis that had been ridden hard on the trainer in covid, and my 
>>> raspberry Platypus. We all had V brakes. They had indexed shifting and I 
>>> had friction. When examining our bikes, we/he found several problems 
>>> (though not on the Platypus because I drag that bike in for every little 
>>> thing) that we then observed our teacher fix. I now know what a loose 
>>> headset sounds like (the Trek). Though, ironically, if you hit my front 
>>> wheel to elicit the sound, the German mirror will respond with an identical 
>>> sound. There are some skills that I still see best left to the experts - 
>>> wheel truing, for instance. I audibly gasped when he took after the spokes 
>>> of a wheel to mess them up for demonstration. I am leaving my new spoke 
>>> wrench in the packaging because no good can come from that thing.
>>>
>>> I am still not brave enough to do a lot with tools to my bike, but I’m 
>>> working on it. I like that some of the mystery was taken out of it all and 
>>> I can see how parts work. Do I dare disclose here some of what I thought 
>>> beforehand? Oh, fine. I thought a wheel out of true meant they had to bend 
>>> a rim back into place. I had NO idea spokes were the culprit, nor did I 
>>> know you could adjust them.  And so on and so forth.
>>>
>>> Our mechanic was so encouraging and told us we should experiment at home 
>>> - don’t worry, he assured us, you won’t break anything. But I wonder if he 
>>> will feel the same when I show up with my collection of redundant 
>>> Rivendells; pieces and parts left over and collected after rolling around 
>>> on my garage floor. “I have been fixing my bike and now it won’t work.” 
>>>
>>> Anyway, it’s a small step of self-betterment and I’ll keep walking that 
>>> direction. I’m sure some of you out there can relate.
>>> Leah
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: English subtitles for Blue Lug's video

[J J]

Masa, I want to extend my gratitude for your translation and subtitle 
effort. I enjoyed watching the video with my Sunday morning coffee. It was 
great to hear the discussion of Rivendell model similarities and 
differences. I think the video would be extremely helpful for someone new 
to Rivendell who might get overwhelmed by Rivendell’s own model 
descriptions. Thank you again, and thank you Blue Lug!!

Jim

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:35:10 AM UTC-5 Masa wrote:

> Slin,
>
> I'm glad that you enjoyed watching the video!
> I liked the blog post you shared very much as well. It's been always fun 
> to read his blog posts.
>
> Get some nice healing on your Clem and have a nice weekend:)
>
> Masa
> 2023年2月5日日曜日 3:00:27 UTC+9 Slin:
>
>> Masa - Thanks for making the subtitles! My favorite part was also the 
>> 'healing' part too.
>>
>> Earlier in the video they mention when they first became Riv Dealers they 
>> felt like they had to learn how to build up Riv's (and they sure did!). It 
>> reminded me of one of Blue Lug's recent blog posts breaking down how they 
>> wrap handlebar grips on Riv's, the 'Grant Wrap'
>>
>> There's some great cockpit detail shots here:
>> https://bluelug.com/blog/kamiuma/137628/
>>
>> - Slin 
>> Now off to get some healing on my Clem! Speaking of which, I also had my 
>> idea of where a Clem fit change a lot over the years too.
>>
>> On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 6:50:18 AM UTC-8 Masa wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you all for your warm replies!
>>> I'm happy that I could help you to enjoy watching the video better. It 
>>> was a really fun project for me as well!
>>>
>>> Tom, I'm going to watch "Cycle Around Japan"! I didn't know that.
>>>
>>> Al, yeah that part was funny wasn't it? I'm glad that I could translate 
>>> the nuance of that part!
>>>
>>> Leah, I really admire that your son self studies Japanese! Actually my 
>>> profession is teaching Japanese so I know that sometimes it could be tough 
>>> to study it for some learners. The word was perfect so please tell him that 
>>> どういたしまして (you are welcome) and がんばってください (best wishes) for me :)
>>>
>>> Masa
>>>
>>> 2023年2月4日土曜日 11:07:15 UTC+9 Al in SF:
>>>
 Masa,

 Thank you so much for these translations! The bit about the Hillborne 
 having healing properties at 59:15 cracked me up.

 Al

 On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:26:58 AM UTC-8 Masa wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> This is my first post of 2023, I hope you are having good rides!
>
> Last month I happened to have an opportunity to make subtitles for 
> Blue Lug’s YouTube channel and now the “Rivendell Chart” video is English 
> subtitled!
>
> Let me tell you how it happened. First of all, When I finished 
> watching the video I felt that “oh this video should be shared with 
> English 
> speaking Rivendell fans(means this "RBW Owners Bunch) too” so I started 
> translating the video briefly.
>
> Then I found someone commented that “Subtitles please!” and Blue Lug 
> replied “we’d love to but at the moment we are too busy so we need a 
> help”. 
> I thought that “why don’t I do that?”
>
> It took me a week to complete subtitling between my work, playing with 
> my baby, feeding my baby, putting my baby to sleep, sleeping with my 
> baby, 
> chatting with my wife and commuting by my Platypus.
>
> It was a really fun work to do related to not only the things I’m 
> passionate about which are languages and bicycles but also favourite 
> people 
> who are Rivendell and Blue Lug!
>
> I would be very happy that if I could be a help for Rivendell and Blue 
> Lug. Ultimately I hope people who watch the subtitled video will find how 
> Rivendell bicycles are amazing even better than before, that would be 
> amazing.
>
> Link to the video↓
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx83uMhIgKA
>
> Masa
>


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[RBW] Re: Looking for Bombadil PDF

[J J]

Sweet Max. Congratulations on the Bombadil. What size is it? Can't wait to 
see how you dress it up!

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:45:15 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> Does anyone have a set of silver Paul thumbies lying around unused?
>
> I'm also interested in a pair of used Paul Love Levers 2.5 (switching 
> brakes to Minimoto's), otherwise I might end up installing the black ones I 
> have on another bike for now.
>
> Max
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:42:11 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Thanks for confirming JJ.
>>
>> I guess now is a good time to share that I have a new project brewing 
>> this winter! 
>>
>> According to the seller he bought it new from Riv in 2016 which sounds 
>> off given the details and the build but maybe it was an old demo, stashed 
>> somewhere in the warehouse?
>> Either way I'm beyond stoked about having found such a gem:
>>
>> [image: 322680578_5656479324459676_7415959924211071863_n.jpg]
>>
>> Here is the non-drive side decal:
>>
>> [image: bomba.jpg]
>>
>> I'll install Bullmoose bars, thumbies, racks and I'm considering new 
>> tires. Still waiting for a few things I'll need for the (re)build.
>> Photos will follow
>>
>> Max
>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:44:18 PM UTC-5 Marty Gierke, 
>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>
>>> Even more graphic variation - this from the original batch:
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_0341.JPG]
>>>
>>> and a closeup of the style from the .pdf
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1599.JPG]
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:24:36 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting how the Bombadil graphics on the decals changed over time. 
>>>> Thanks for the link.
>>>>
>>>> [image: bomb1 (3).jpg]
>>>>
>>>> Laing
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Max, I think you have indeed had it all along! The creation date on 
>>>>> the PDF is Sep 9, 2010.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:09:47 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Marty! Interesting, I did find that one, I have the pdf... 
>>>>>> maybe I've had it all along?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20110708185319/http://www.rivbike.com/assets/payloads/358/original_sept_9.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Looking for Bombadil PDF

[J J]

Max, I think you have indeed had it all along! The creation date on the PDF 
is Sep 9, 2010.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:09:47 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> Thanks Marty! Interesting, I did find that one, I have the pdf... maybe 
> I've had it all along?
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20110708185319/http://www.rivbike.com/assets/payloads/358/original_sept_9.pdf
>
> Max
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Red Toyo Atlantis?

[J J]

This thread has been so interesting. That red Atlantis is gorgeous. If only 
it were the right size for me…

Check out the photos of various configurations and setups in this very early 
Atlantis brochure 
,
 
which is all about Toyo production. There are pointy lugs and non-pointy 
lugs on the head tubes!

Joe, I would always bet on your Riv knowledge and memory, :) but based on 
this brochure it appears that the pointiness or roundedness of the lugs do 
not in themselves indicate a move to Waterford production. 

Very early Atlantis frames *lacked* braze-ons on the fork for racks, which 
Grant extolled as a virtue (see below). How times have changed! I’ve seen 
plenty of Atlantises with fork braze-ons, but I’m not sure when Grant 
changed his mind about it. 

“The racks cost about $120 each, but you can spend half that and still get 
a decent rack. *Notice the front rack clamps on. Why no braze-on? Because 
different front racks have different braze-on locations, and we didn't want 
to rule out any front rack. The clamps work fine, and are compatible with 
any rack.* Approximate price as shown, racks and all, about $2,600.”

The brochure has a cool photo of Tetsuya lshigaki in the act of brazing. 
Here’s a quote about Toyo:

“We don't cut corners with the Atlantis. The frame has not changed 
fundamentally since the first one in 2000. It was then and is still made in 
a six-person custom frame shop, called Toyo, in Osaka, Japan. Toyo has been 
hand-crafting superb, traditional bicycle frames for 30 years. It costs a 
lot to make anything in Japan these days—particularly when it involves 
human labor. But the quality of the Atlantis frame is superb, and the 
price—about $1,300–is way less than you'd expect to pay for a frame this 
good. The quality is what you'd expect out of Japan, and your Atlantis will 
likely last the rest of your life.”

Jim


On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 4:29:49 PM UTC-5 homer...@gmail.com wrote:

> Wow, you guys really are the source for all things Rivendell!!… I mean 
> seriously, tracking down the original owner?… Smart!
> Thanks to your assistance, I’ve decided to pass on this opportunity for 
> the moment…
>
>  I think I’m going to wait for a 60cm and honestly I need to sell or trade 
> my Jones LBW first, not only for the Atlantis money, but more importantly 
> just to keep my wife happy
> Again, Thank You So Much!
>
>
> “Maranatha”!
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2023, at 12:42 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote:
>
> I *think* this bike was formerly owned by (former list member?) Gino 
> Zahnd, as evidenced by this photo from 2013, which I faved at the time: 
>
>
> https://flic.kr/p/f8fyGT
>
> Gino does reference selling it in the comments on the photo.  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
> On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-8 homer...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I very curious about this bike. Honestly, I’ve just never seen a red 
>> Atlantis?
>> Does Anyone know what year this bike was made?
>>
>> Thanx folks 
>>
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/vallejo-rivendell-atlantis-58/7578102714.html
>>
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Re: [RBW] New build: 1985 Bridgestone MB-2

[J J]

Absolutely lovely build, Eric. Beautiful. Thank you for sharing!

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:20:29 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> I posted a bad link to the Google Drive folder with bigger pics. 
>
> This should work.  
> 
>
> Thanks again!
>
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 7:19:56 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David! 
>>
>> Eric: Sorry, not for sale!
>>
>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 6:28:40 PM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>>> Price?
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2023, at 3:17 PM, David Hays <23wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Beautiful build!
>>>
>>> David Hays
>>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2023, at 6:08 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
>>> Here are some close-ups I took once I discovered the "macro" mode on my 
>>> partner's ancient Nikon DSLR: 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 6:06:27 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>>>
 [image: MB-2 230115 S 00 Complete.jpg]

 Hi all — I just finished up a build, it's a 1985 Bridgestone MB-2. I 
 have a full build video up over here: https://youtu.be/gJPnbpzjbKg

 [image: MB-2 230115 S 01 Complete.jpg]

 I purchased the bike as a complete from Marketplace, it was stock but 
 for the saddle and tires. Everything was removed and I passed the frame 
 over to Rob Gassie at Bing Bicycles. He added some rack mounts to the fork 
 and seat stays, changes some the cable guides, added a third bottle boss 
 to 
 the downtube and two additional bottle bosses to the underside. He also 
 stripped the frame to raw steel. 

 [image: MB-2 230115 S 02 Headbadge.jpg]

 Instead of paint I went for a raw finish. There are two applications of 
 patination acids, with and without heat, followed by clear lacquer and wax.
  

 [image: MB-2 230115 S Rear mech.jpg]

 It's built up with a mix of parts from across time, all silver. 
 De-anodized some black Paul cantilevers and also de-anodized an XTR 
 RD-M952. Dead stock WTB grease guard headset purchased from Jacque Phelan. 
 Lots of Suntour, some TA cranks and modern parts from Japan. Crust x Nitto 
 Shaka bars, MKS bear trap pedals, Nitto cable hanger. 

 [image: MB-2 230115 S Downtube.jpg]

 I had some custom brass headbadges made with the old Bridgestone logo 
 which I shaped and finished. 

 [image: MB2 09 SM Head tube.jpg]

 Velocity Atlas 26" wheelset with a Kasai dynamo hub up front and an XTR 
 M900 in the rear. Front wheel by Rich at Rivendell, rear built by Andre at 
 my local bike shop. I'm running Rene Herse extra-light tires with a Rat 
 Trap Pass in the back and a Humptulips Ridge in front. 

 Many thanks to members here for helping out with parts when I needed 
 them: Trevor B., Dave H., Liz S. and Patrick M. 

 • Velocity Atlas 26" 32/32 wheelset
 • Rene Herse Antelope Hill, extra light
 • Rene Herse Rat Trap Pass, extra light
 • Shimano XTR M900 rear hub
 • Kasai 32H front hub
 • Schmidt Edelux II polished headlight
 • Busch + Müller light mount
 • Crust x Nitto Shaka handlebars, 54cm
 • Newbaum's cotton bar tape, white
 • Suntour Bar-Con shifters
 • Suntour Superbe levers
 • Paul Neo Retro cantilever brakes, front
 • Paul Touring cantilever brakes, rear
 • Hunter Nugz barrel adjusters
 • Dia Compe yoke hangers
 • Fairweather x Nitto stem-mounted cable hanger
 • Nitto Technomic 6cm stem, 26.0 clamp 
 • WTB New Paradigm Grease Guard headset 
 • TA Specialities Cyclotourist crankset, 48/42/28, 170mm 
 • Shimano 115mm square taper bottom bracket 
 • Shimano 9 speed 12-36 cassette
 • MKS XC-III pedals
 • Suntour AR front derailer
 • Shimano XTR MD-952 rear derailer 
 • Suntour XC Pro seat post 
 • Brooks Conquest saddle
 • Wheels Mfg. brass housing ferrules
 • Sim Works x Nissen brass cable ferrules
 • Sim Works x Nissen brake and shift housing 
 • Sim Works x Hoshi
 • M5 brass socket head screws
 • Shovel Research M5 brass slotted screws

 Larger pictures here: 
 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_gXuRvwsKYVjG7GLMqFf2KGhPrYRNlp3/view?usp=sharing

 Thanks for lookin'! 

>>>
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>>>  
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Paul Touring vs. Neo-retro question

[J J]

Scott, I’ve used both, and as hard as I’ve tried to discern a functional 
difference, I honestly just couldn’t. They felt the same to me. Both felt 
great and had plenty of stopping force. I don’t know if this is because of 
they way each was set up and dialed in. But neither lacked anything. I 
don’t consider myself a super expert in setting up cantis, either. 

Function aside, I very much prefer how the wider profile Neo-Retros look 
over the Tourings. I love how the Neo-Retros look both old school and 
modern.

Jim

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 6:27:06 PM UTC-5 Jay Lonner wrote:

> I’ve used both, prefer the Tourings due to higher mechanical advantage. 
> Now I run Motolites which are even better. Maybe I’m just bad at setting up 
> cantis but switching to linear pull brakes was a big upgrade for me. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jan 20, 2023, at 3:12 PM, greenteadrinkers  
> wrote:
>
> If you had to choose between the Paul Touring Canti or the Neo-Retro for 
> a front brake, which would you pick and why? 
>
>
> Curious about how much functional difference exists between the 2 models.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Swift Catalyst bag; IRD Double Roller Headset; XTR RD-M970 (NOS); SL-M970-A; XTR RD-M951

[J J]

*UPDATE* — *SOLD**: Paul Skewers; XTR M970-A shifters; Shimano BL550 brake 
levers* (with thanks to everyone!)

*STILL AVAILABLE:*

   - *IRD Double Roller Headset ($80 new)*
   - *Shimano 105 RD-1051 ($95 NOS)*

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 1:37:23 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> *UPDATE*
>
> *SOLD: B17 saddle; RD-M772; FD-M781; RD-M970 (thanks so much all)*
>
> *STILL AVAILABLE with price drops:*
>
>- *IRD Double Roller Headset ($80 new)*
>- *Shimano BL550 brake levers ($25 excellent condition)*
>- *Shimano 105 RD-1051 ($95 NOS)*
>- *Paul QR Skewers, 100mm and 130/135mm set, black and orange ($155 
>for the pair, new)*
>- *Shimano XTR SL-M970-A shifters ($300 NOS)*
>
>
> *Hit me up privately if you're interested in anything. Thanks!!*
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:39:14 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>>
>> *Hi all, this is an update, and I'm adding a few more items for sale.*
>> *SOLD: XTR RD-M591; Swift Catalyst bag; XTR SL-M970-A shifters (thanks 
>> everyone!)*
>>
>> *STILL AVAILABLE (details below, make me an offer!!): IRD Double Roller 
>> Headset; XTR RD-M970 Rapid Rise (NOS)*
>>
>> *NEWLY FOR SALE, HAPPY TO SEND ADDITIONAL PHOTOS. PLEASE EMAIL ME 
>> PRIVATELY:*
>> *Brooks B17 saddle, black, new in package, never mounted $110*
>> With black rails. 
>> [image: Brooks B17 saddle.jpg]
>>
>>
>> *Shimano BL550 short pull brake levers, excellent condition, $35*
>> Old reliable.
>> [image: BL 550 brake levers.jpg]
>>
>>
>> *Shimano Deore XT RD-M772 rear derailer (NOS), $125*
>> Long cage (SGS), high normal. Smooth, low profile.
>> [image: XT RD-M772.jpg]
>>
>>
>> *Shimano Deore XT FD-M781 triple front derailer excellent condition, $30*
>> Has been mounted, basically like new. 
>> [image: XT FD-M781.jpg]
>>
>>
>> *Shimano 105 RD-1051 7-speed rear derailer NOS, $125*
>> Old-school Shimano with lots of shiny surfaces.
>>
>> *[image: Shimano 105 RD-1051 7 speed.jpg]*
>>
>> *Shimano XTR SL-M970-A trigger shifters, NOS NIB, $350*.
>> I had previously listed a used set of these shifters last time and there 
>> was a huge response, so I decided to sell this NOS set that I've been 
>> holding onto. Original (preinstalled) cables, housing, paperwork, and other 
>> bits included. As stated before, these are the refined and buttressed 
>> iteration (indicated by the 970-*"A"*) of the last XTR 9-speed shifters. 
>> For the indexed lovers among us, these have incredibly smooth and light 
>> action. In Shimano-ese, "2-Way Release, Multi-Release, and Instant Release."
>> [image: XTR SL-M970-A new.jpg]
>>
>>
>> *Paul QR Skewers, 100mm and 130/135mm set, black and orange, NEW, never 
>> installed, $180 for the pair. *
>> I prefer to sell these as a set and not to separate them, but if you 
>> really want one or the other, holler at me. 
>> [image: Paul Skewers black orange.jpg]
>>
>> Thanks for looking!
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 5:36:50 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, my purge continues and I'm listing a few items for sale. Please hit 
>>> me up privately off list if you are interested in anything, want to see 
>>> more pics, or have any questions. Happy to make a package deal for RBW list 
>>> members. Thanks!
>>>
>>> *IRD/Tange Double RollerDrive Headset, new. $90, shipped CONUS*
>>> I bought this to solve a shimmy on my Hunq. But with Riv's advice I 
>>> solved it in an easier and less invasive way, and retained my original 
>>> headset. (IRD sells it for $99.99 plus tax and shipping.)
>>>
>>> [image: IRD-double-roller-4.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> *Swift Catalyst Handlebar/Saddle bag, Dark Green, new, $145 shipped*
>>> Beautiful color, never mounted, includes straps and foam spacers. I 
>>> purchased it for a bike I no longer have, so I don't need it. ($160 plus 
>>> tax and shipping from Swift.)
>>>
>>>
>>> *[image: Swift-Catalyst-bag-6.jpg]*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Shimano XTR RD-M970 (Rapid Rise SGS) NOS, $345 shipped*
>>> The last and most refined XTR low normal mech model. Light weight, crisp 
>>> shifting, an utter pleasure to ride. Recent off-list discussions convinced 
>>> me that I probably have way more RR RDs than I will ever need. "
>>> *Probably*."
>>>
>>> [image: xtr-RD-M970-4.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: xtr-RD-M970-2.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> *Shimano XTR SL-M970-A tri

[RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

Yes, the saga continues! I think it’s plausible that the prototype was 
indeed a prototype for both bikes — let’s call it a super heavy duty frame 
prototype — even if that was not the intention from the get go. And then 
there would have been a split, so to speak, with one going in this 
direction and one going in that, each with its own characteristics and 
nuances that we could list. In a rough and very imperfect analogy, it could 
be akin to a split for identical twins that start out from one, but whose 
real-world “gene expression” results in each twin developing their own 
personality, having a different appearance in some respects, and different 
strengths, weaknesses, and interests. 

I know this is a stretch! But without a definitive story straight from the 
horse’s mouth, all this sleuthing and piecing together stories and evidence 
is the best we’ve got. It’s a fantastic thread. 
On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 3:53:56 PM UTC-5 WilletM wrote:

>
> Well, that's an interesting little twist!  It was my assumption after 
> posting the "origin story" of my Protovelo that I probably had many of the 
> details wrong and that there would be a long list of 
> clarifications/modifications to the information that I had pieced together 
> about it.  In particular, I assumed that there had been additional owners 
> of the frame that were unknown to me, and that perhaps Daniel M. had never 
> really "owned" the frame but had just borrowed it from Grant for the one 
> journey, etc.  But I had never seen anything regarding the 
> "proto-Hunqapillar" making the Great Divide trip.  I'm sure there are 
> others on the forum with more information about this than me, but my 
> initial thought is that perhaps my frame was very "interim" and included 
> both Bombadil and Hunqapillar elements/geometry???  On the other hand, the 
> fact that Daniel referred to it pretty precisely as a "new unpainted 
> Bombadil" in the Reddit thread seems to slot it in timeline-wise as an 
> early Bombadil rather than a later Hunqapillar.  As always, I will defer to 
> the experts and look forward to possibly fleshing out more details as we go 
> along.
>
> Thanks, though, for pointing out the discrepancy.
>
> Willet M.
>
> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 12:42:39 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Willet, this is a fascinating backstory indeed. Thanks for sharing. 
>>
>> One piece of it is curious, and it both clarifies and clouds things: the 
>> Hunqapillar copy also states that the the “proto-Hunqapillar” was ridden by 
>> Daniel on the Great Divide.
>>
>> From Riv:
>>
>> And it's a trail bike.
>> The tubes are stout, but reasonable in weight, and the strong lugged 
>> joints should last or decades. There’s clearance for 58mm tires. If you 
>> need fatter than that, get a Pugsley. 
>> *Trivia: Former employee Daniel rode a proto-Hunqapillar the entire 
>> 2700-miles of the Great Divide trail. No problem. The current ones are vast 
>> improvements over that*.
>>
>> So this strongly suggests that the proto Bombadil and the proto 
>> Hunqapillar were the same proto frames. Right?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 1:51:19 PM UTC-5 WilletM wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Just by lucky coincidence, I had recently been considering starting a 
>>> definitive "Bombadil origins" thread, which would hopefully document all 
>>> the current (and maybe former) Bombadil's owned by forum members, with pics 
>>> and stories about ownership history and builds and any other details that 
>>> would help to flesh out our collective interest/obsession with this 
>>> particular Rivendell model.  But Eric saved me the trouble by starting a 
>>> thoughtful and interesting thread that covers most/all of the same 
>>> information that I had hoped to aggregate in my proposed thread.
>>>
>>> My own personal Bombadil obsession started, as so many others apparently 
>>> have, with provocative pics that I saw online depicting 
>>> Protovelo/Bombadil's naked as a jaybird, with brass flowing in copious 
>>> amounts out of the fancy lugs.  Back in the mid-90's, I had ordered a 
>>> custom Bilenky coupled touring bike with Nervex lugs and had it finished 
>>> naked, which, in combination with the lugs and couplers and other 
>>> braze-on's, made for an abundantly visually interesting frameset to 
>>> admire.  And then along comes the naked Protovelo, which seems to have 
>>> scratched the very same itch for me that the Bilenky did.
>>>
>>> Not surprisingly, owning a naked (Bombadil)Protovelo zoomed to the top 
>>> of my

[RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

://www.reddit.com/user/RipVanBinkle/>
> *·4 yr. ago 
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/xbiking/comments/b9izw4/comment/ek4updb/?utm_source=reddit_medium=web2x=3>*
>
> *What was your time at Riv like? How did you end up there? Any major 
> takeaways from that experience?*
> *tumbleweedbikes* <https://www.reddit.com/user/tumbleweedbikes/>
>
> *·4 yr. ago 
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/xbiking/comments/b9izw4/comment/ek4vgg8/?utm_source=reddit_medium=web2x=3>*
>
> *Working at Riv was my dream job at the time, I was in school and 
> completely idolized the brand and Grant's philosophy about riding. I 
> literally showed up at the shop and asked if I could volunteer. Grant said 
> they don't take volunteers and that I would have to get paid. I worked 
> there part time all during college and did every overnight campout that I 
> could, many times it was just me and Grant. He's an incredibly supportive 
> person who genuinely cares about people. I was obsessed with riding the 
> Great Divide Route and Grant let me use one of the brand new unpainted 
> Bombadil mountain bikes for that ride and was super encouraging. We would 
> nerd out for hours and hours about all kind of camping gear and tents and 
> cameras and fly fishing. It was really great. He's continued to be 
> supportive and encouraging as I went through the terrifying process of 
> starting my own small business.*
>
> *
>
> And that, my friends, is the origin story of my Protovelo and its 
> adventures and incarnations from birth through Daniel and then Erik and now 
> me.  The fact that I mostly or even completely know its provenance and some 
> of its adventures from the time that it was originally built adds some 
> definite richness and texture to the pride of ownership that I feel every 
> time that I take it out for a leisurely ride along the river here in 
> western Colorado.  I have toyed with the possibility of returning the frame 
> to its naked roots, as that's what caught my eye and spurred my interest in 
> these frames some years ago.  But for now, I'm sticking with the nicked-up 
> repaint and tattered decals that tell more of an authentic story than a 
> fresh repaint ever could.
>
> Willet M.
>
> Carbondale, CO
>
> [image: 20200525_191952.jpg]
>
>
> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>
>> My first run gray/orange Hunqapillar fits Antelope Hills (700 x 55) on 
>> Dyad rims with plenty of clearance.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:35:21 PM UTC-6 J J wrote:
>>
>>> James, I can’t enumerate the all the differences, but I’m running René 
>>> Herse 29" x 2.2" (700C x 55) Antelope Hill tires on my green Waterford Hunq 
>>> 58, built in 2012, and there’s clearance to spare. Even with the 65 SKS 
>>> fenders. I know early literature on Hunqs said that 55 was the maximum 
>>> width. Later literature said the max was 2.3/58. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:37:40 PM UTC-5 mcgr...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are the differences between Hunqapillar generations?  I have a 
>>>> July 2010 Waterford 62cm.  Right now it's got 2.1" Schwalbe Thunder Burts. 
>>>>  
>>>> I think getting 2.2" tires on the back would be dicey.  Did the green 
>>>> generation of the frame have bigger clearance?  Longer wheelbase?
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:26:45 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One more note that I didn't think of until I hit submit - the batch 
>>>>> differences that exist on Bombadils (and maybe Hunqapillars too) are more 
>>>>> significant than the difference between a Bombadil and a Hunq if you 
>>>>> remove 
>>>>> the location of manufacture from the equation. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 16:24:22 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it 
>>>>>> means a lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a 
>>>>>> special 
>>>>>> day, first ride on the rebuild after paint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a 
>>>>>> lot has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> two anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. 
>&g

Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

Jay, I run cantis. I’ve never used Motolites or any other V brakes. I’m 
stubborn about some things and I just love my cantis! I’m curious if the 
Motolites would work, though — if anyone else reading this has tried them 
with the 65 SKS, please chime in. 

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:12:44 PM UTC-5 Jay Lonner wrote:

> Are you using cantis or linear pull brakes with the 65 SKS fenders? When 
> my Big Bens wear out I’m thinking of switching to Antelope Hills, and am 
> hoping they’ll work with Motolites and fenders. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA 
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Dec 14, 2022, at 5:35 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> James, I can’t enumerate the all the differences, but I’m running René 
> Herse 29" x 2.2" (700C x 55) Antelope Hill tires on my green Waterford Hunq 
> 58, built in 2012, and there’s clearance to spare. Even with the 65 SKS 
> fenders. I know early literature on Hunqs said that 55 was the maximum 
> width. Later literature said the max was 2.3/58. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:37:40 PM UTC-5 mcgr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> What are the differences between Hunqapillar generations?  I have a July 
>> 2010 Waterford 62cm.  Right now it's got 2.1" Schwalbe Thunder Burts.  I 
>> think getting 2.2" tires on the back would be dicey.  Did the green 
>> generation of the frame have bigger clearance?  Longer wheelbase?
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:26:45 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> One more note that I didn't think of until I hit submit - the batch 
>>> differences that exist on Bombadils (and maybe Hunqapillars too) are more 
>>> significant than the difference between a Bombadil and a Hunq if you remove 
>>> the location of manufacture from the equation. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 16:24:22 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it means 
>>>> a lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a special day, 
>>>> first ride on the rebuild after paint.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a 
>>>> lot has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between the 
>>>> two anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. The 
>>>> Hunqapillar seems to me like a "v2" Bombadil - they increased tire 
>>>> clearance over the Bombadil from 2.1 to 2.4" on most sizes, they made 
>>>> little geometry tweaks but just a smidge here and there, and notably they 
>>>> made the frame more cost-effective by not only changing suppliers but by 
>>>> simplifying the design a bit. 
>>>>
>>>> To me they are still both "ATB" Rivendells, made to tackle trails 
>>>> loaded or not, and also be comfortable to ride on pavement as long as 
>>>> you're not in too much of a rush. When it comes to which is more coveted, 
>>>> it really comes down to whether the little superfluous (but beautiful) 
>>>> details on the Bombadil are important to you, and/or which paint job and 
>>>> geometry specifics suit you better. I think of them like the Appaloosa and 
>>>> Atlantis - basically two flavors of the same bike.   
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 11 December 2022 at 07:16:08 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're 
>>>>> stout, beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs. 
>>>>> While I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about 
>>>>> these bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
>>>>> thread 
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mkxv02ciCM4/m/KqWZOIMQAwAJ>,
>>>>>  there's 
>>>>> some great info there. 
>>>>>
>>>>> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
>>>>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
>>>>> 2009. Excerpted pages attached.

[RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

James, I can’t enumerate the all the differences, but I’m running René 
Herse 29" x 2.2" (700C x 55) Antelope Hill tires on my green Waterford Hunq 
58, built in 2012, and there’s clearance to spare. Even with the 65 SKS 
fenders. I know early literature on Hunqs said that 55 was the maximum 
width. Later literature said the max was 2.3/58. 

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:37:40 PM UTC-5 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:

> What are the differences between Hunqapillar generations?  I have a July 
> 2010 Waterford 62cm.  Right now it's got 2.1" Schwalbe Thunder Burts.  I 
> think getting 2.2" tires on the back would be dicey.  Did the green 
> generation of the frame have bigger clearance?  Longer wheelbase?
>
> James
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:26:45 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> One more note that I didn't think of until I hit submit - the batch 
>> differences that exist on Bombadils (and maybe Hunqapillars too) are more 
>> significant than the difference between a Bombadil and a Hunq if you remove 
>> the location of manufacture from the equation. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 16:24:22 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it means a 
>>> lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a special day, 
>>> first ride on the rebuild after paint.
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a 
>>> lot has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between the 
>>> two anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. The 
>>> Hunqapillar seems to me like a "v2" Bombadil - they increased tire 
>>> clearance over the Bombadil from 2.1 to 2.4" on most sizes, they made 
>>> little geometry tweaks but just a smidge here and there, and notably they 
>>> made the frame more cost-effective by not only changing suppliers but by 
>>> simplifying the design a bit. 
>>>
>>> To me they are still both "ATB" Rivendells, made to tackle trails loaded 
>>> or not, and also be comfortable to ride on pavement as long as you're not 
>>> in too much of a rush. When it comes to which is more coveted, it really 
>>> comes down to whether the little superfluous (but beautiful) details on the 
>>> Bombadil are important to you, and/or which paint job and geometry 
>>> specifics suit you better. I think of them like the Appaloosa and Atlantis 
>>> - basically two flavors of the same bike.   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 11 December 2022 at 07:16:08 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're 
 stout, beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs. 
 While I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on 
 the 
 origins and intended uses of these frames. 

 I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about 
 these bikes along with pictures of builds. 

 Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
 thread 
 ,
  there's 
 some great info there. 

 The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
 http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf

 The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very 
 into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many 
 Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose 
 absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the picture 
 below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 

 [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]

 There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I 
 believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's 
 got 
 a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike sometime soon. 

 [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]

 And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and write-up 
 here .

 [image: Johns-Rivendell-Hunqapillar-29er-Klunker-76.jpg] 

 Are both of these frame names borrowing from Tolkien? I understand RBW 
 had to stop using Tolkien names. 

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Nivex on a Rivendell?

[J J]

I love the image of the peanut gallery here!

So besides the price of entry for the RD itself, there is the cost of the 
lever (any other hardware?), and designing a custom built bike around it or 
retrofitting a frame with an appropriate braze-on and cable guide, which 
would probably also mean repainting the retrofitted frame or at least part 
of it. It’s a big commitment. 

The mechanism itself looks super cool, but it is also a bonafide example of 
a proprietary component, which is what makes it hard for me to consider. I 
like being able to easily swap parts out, even (or especially) fancy parts. 
On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:56:18 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> I'm all peanut gallery on this one. I'm reminded of a Canadian rock band I 
> listened to as a teen named Max Webster. They had an album called "High 
> Class in Borrowed Shoes". I never really related much to that title until 
> right now.. and how underneath the inflated image of "high class" 
> resides the person, place or thing as it truly is. In this case, it's 
> "just" a derailleur regardless of the sales pitch and inflated sense of 
> worthiness. Not to diminish the "just", I mean that as the authenticity of 
> Existence. A derailleur is a marvelous and ingenious thing and no amount of 
> over or under inflating can change that. 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

I discussed the history of Hunqapillar pricing in another recent thread 
<https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mkxv02ciCM4/m/KqWZOIMQAwAJ>. 
It started out at $1,500 and incrementally rose to $2,350.

As far as I can ascertain from the Wayback archive, the most the Bombadil 
went for was $3,000. It started out at $2,000.

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:47:21 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> There was an actual additional piece of steel. It looks like a longer lug 
> in paint, but if one of raw, clear coated frames, you can see that is an 
> addition piece of metal.
> [image: bomb2 (2).jpg]
>
> Laing
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:38:07 PM UTC-5 jasonz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Sure thing Laing, so the Bombadil was more ornate with the lug profile? 
>>
>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 1:32:41 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> For one thing, the Hunqapillar did not have the lower head tube - down 
>>> tube lug extension like the Bombadil.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:29:05 PM UTC-5 jasonz...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've often wondered what made the Hunq the "less expensive Bombadil" 
>>>> given the tubing being as Grant calls "the most expensive tubes around". 
>>>>  I'm assuming it was based on it being MIT and the Bomba being a MUSA 
>>>> frame?  IF so, were they equally priced once the Hunq moved to MUSA 
>>>> Waterford, why/why not?  I figured it was something similar to the 
>>>> manufacturing locations of the Quickbeam/SimpleOne with the exception that 
>>>> those two have identical geometry and the Hunq/Bomba are different.  I'm 
>>>> only asking because its often referred here as the cheaper bomba, but I 
>>>> was 
>>>> of the understanding it was more like the 700c bike (hunq) and the bomba 
>>>> was the 650b earlier option.  
>>>>
>>>> Probably a messy way to ask but to clean it up, can anyone tell me if 
>>>> the Hunq was actually that much cheaper once it was moved to Wisconsin and 
>>>> also if the tubing stayed the same once it was manufactured in the US?
>>>>
>>>> thanks! Love these two bikes and this thread!
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 11:44:50 AM UTC-6 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They are the same, both the originals that came with the frame
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 11:24:59 AM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cool pair of Hunqs! are the forks different? Or is it just the photo 
>>>>>> angle that makes the curve on the fork on the one with the black saddle 
>>>>>> look different?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:56:43 AM UTC-5 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: 61977D70-55E2-4782-A93A-A8333171AFD6.jpeg][image: 
>>>>>>> 7A5D4923-2037-4ACB-81D6-3091B473A0FB.jpeg]My two Hunqs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

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Re: [RBW] Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

Cool pair of Hunqs! are the forks different? Or is it just the photo angle 
that makes the curve on the fork on the one with the black saddle look 
different?

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:56:43 AM UTC-5 Dick Combs wrote:

> [image: 61977D70-55E2-4782-A93A-A8333171AFD6.jpeg][image: 
> 7A5D4923-2037-4ACB-81D6-3091B473A0FB.jpeg]My two Hunqs
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: How you choose 2 Rivendells?

[J J]

Hi Scott...thanks for your note! Instead of including photos here and 
commandeering this thread, I posted several pics of the Glorius and pics of 
the Hunq, Atlantis, and Wilbury cockpits on Google Drive 
<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IdqpVApVs01p23n4HjIpwotsLZ__6aMB?usp=share_link>.
 
Feel free to check them out 
<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IdqpVApVs01p23n4HjIpwotsLZ__6aMB?usp=share_link>
.

As I mentioned before, I'm going to replace the drops on the Atlantis with 
either a Bosco, Losco, Tosco, or Choco — say all that three times fast — 
because the drops kill my wrists and shoulders. I'll use Paul brake levers 
to match the Neo-Retro cantis levers and I'll probably retain those old 
Shimano bar-end shifters in indexed mode mounted to Paul thumbies. Riding 
the Atlantis was the first experience I've had with indexed shifting and I 
liked it! The shifters have a super satisfying click, and wow, the chain 
moves exactly where it needs to be :) (I'm not about to give up the 
friction shifters on the Hunq though.) The Atlantis drivetrain is exactly 
like the Hunq's — triple front and 9-sp Rapid Rise rear. And yes, the 
Rich-built Atlantis rear wheel has a shiny 48h Phil hub. Forty eight. The 
front wheel is "only" a 40h SON.

Please do keep us posted about your builds! 

Best wishes,

Jim 

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 10:50:02 AM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Your bikes are immaculate and down right gorgeous! Does each have its own 
> bedroom in the house?!
>
> Will you, please, share pictures of your cockpits? I'm in a state of 
> ponder regarding my Atlantis' cockpit direction.
>
> And more pictures of the Glorious, PLEASE??? That's my fave!
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Scott
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 07:34:06 PM MST, J J  
> wrote: 
>
>
> I’m really enjoying this thread! Thanks for initiating it, Masa.
>
> Like John, I have a Waterford Hunqapillar (58) I bought new from 
> Rivendell. Also like John, I have a Toyo Atlantis (61), a recent 
> acquisition. So John's post really resonated. 
>
> [image: Hunqapillar head badge.jpg]
>
> A few weeks ago someone asked me, “Why did you buy an Atlantis if you 
> already have a Hunq?” I really hadn’t thought about that question. I guess 
> the implication was that the two bikes had overlap of purpose. 
>
> To my mind it was more like, why *wouldn’t* I buy the Atlantis? It 
> checked a lot of boxes: Toyo built; fully lugged; quintessential Rivendell; 
> beautiful; robust; classic good looks; the submarine green. 
>
> [image: Atlantis head badge.jpg]
>
> I don’t think anything could replace the Hunq, my true all-rounder. I’d 
> buy another if the bike gods kindly bestowed one on me. There is precedent 
> in my household of having two of the same bike, a Wilbury and a Glorius.
>
> [image: Wilbury head badge.jpg]
>
> [image: Glorius head badge.jpg]
>
> But the more I ride the Atlantis the more I appreciate just how special it 
> is, too. It reminds me of the Hunq in robustness, stability, and lovely 
> ride, but it is more compact and a bit livelier and lighter. And I could 
> load it up if I needed to. I love the feel and aesthetics of the shorter 
> wheelbase Rivs. All Rivs are great no matter where they are produced. 
> There's something distinctive about the Toyo-built Rivs that's hard to pin 
> down. 
>
> Jim
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 2:03:24 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>
> Shoji,
>
> Thank you for educating me on Atlantis history and sharing the 
> article...much appreciated!
>
> Scott
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 11:02:01 AM MST, Shoji Takahashi <
> shoji.t...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> Scott,
> "Atlantis 2" on Rivendell's model is because Bridgestone had an "Atlantis" 
> model, designed by Hiro Watanabe. 
>
> You can read about it in RR35 available here: 
> http://notfine.com/rivreader/
>
> Thanks
> Shoji
> Arlington MA
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 12:19:56 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>
> Affectionately acknowledged, Max. Ride on...
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 10:15:44 AM MST, reynoldslugs <
> be...@perrylaw.net> wrote: 
>
>
> Scott et al - 
>
> correction - sorry, the saddle on the Atlantis is an SMP Avant:
>
>
> https://www.performancebike.com/selle-smp-avant-saddle-black-aisi-304-rails-154mm-zstrikeamne/p1262159?v=531971=Cj0KCQiAkMGcBhCSARIsAIW6d0C4B_hvbJZzbo7h6LftzDSyVysuuUTlKKqOM_1-J5mYoAJjo7O4FOEaAta9EALw_wcB
>
> It doesn't look as nice as the Selle Anatomica, but I switched a number of 
> bikes over to the SMP Avant split-seat in my post-cancer life.  (I don't 
> usually mention that, but it's no big deal and I'm figuring a number of us 
> have

[RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

Re: the mailbox — I believe Grant was on a tour and saw the name 
“Hunkapiller” on a mailbox. Forgot where. He changed the spelling for the 
bike.

On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 2:17:05 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ricky — The mailbox thing is new to me, interested to learn more if others 
> have insight. 
>
> Laing — That is a beauty of a Bombadil and I really appreciate you have 
> the screenshot from when you bought it. That's the kind of receipt I like. 
> Please keep us updated on how it handles with the very wide drops and other 
> changes. Congrats on your traverse of FL on that bike! 
>
> Brian — Thanks for the info! Definitely appropriate for the thread, I'd 
> say. I'm surprised Sackville is a reference to LOTR, never would have 
> guessed it. I think I'd heard of the rest, but only through reading about 
> Riv over the years. And I was aware of Rivendell Mountain Works as a point 
> of inspiration as well. 
>
> Thanks, Eliot! I've got two videos in the hopper. Apologies for the 
> erratic upload schedule. I enjoy documenting my projects but I don't want 
> to be a full-time YouTube person. 
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 12:39:36 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Eric when are we going to see another YouTube video ? I really admire 
>> your style and have even learned a few tricks from your excellent build 
>> videos. Sorry for the tangent.
>>
>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 8:42:59 AM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Eric, I hope this doesn't derail your thread too much, but I though I 
>>> might try to address your Tolkien question. As I'm sure many of us here 
>>> are, I've long been a big Tolkien nerd, but I wouldn't consider myself an 
>>> expert... I'd say I'm pretty well-versed, though!
>>> I know Grant has always maintained that he named Rivendell BW out of his 
>>> appreciation for the old Rivendell Mountain Works catalogs (no doubt a main 
>>> inspiration for the Riv Readers and model catalogs / brochures). But then, 
>>> he also has taken quite a few liberties with the Tolkien property names and 
>>> references. Here's a short list of all the ones I can think of, but there 
>>> may be others:
>>>
>>> Rivendell: the magical refuge of the Elves in Middle Earth, where the 
>>> Fellowship of the Ring is formed
>>> Baggins: the surname of our Hobbit heroes, Bilbo and Frodo
>>> Sackville: a an affluent branch of the Baggins family in the Shire, the 
>>> Sackville-Bagginses
>>> Bombadil: as in Tom Bombadil, a jovial character who helps the Hobbits 
>>> out of a tight spot along their journey. He may be the oldest being in 
>>> Middle Earth. Infamously NOT mentioned in the film adaptations, to the 
>>> dismay of many fans.
>>> Legolas: a Woodland Elf who was a member of the Fellowship of the Ring
>>> Quickbeam: a young Ent who basically babysat and distracted Hobbits 
>>> Merry and Pippin during the Ent Moot
>>>
>>> Can anyone think of any obvious ones I'm missing here?
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 10:50:45 AM UTC-5 E. Ricky Creek wrote:
>>>
 The Hunqapillar is named after a mailbox in Indiana, but the spelling 
 is different. Also, it might not be Indiana.

 On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 9:31:34 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Thank you for starting this thread, Eric. Stoked to learn more about 
> these two models. 
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 7:16:08 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're 
>> stout, beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and 
>> lugs. 
>> While I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on 
>> the 
>> origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>>
>> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about 
>> these bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>>
>> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
>> thread 
>> ,
>>  there's 
>> some great info there. 
>>
>> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>
>> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
>> 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very 
>> into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many 
>> Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose 
>> absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the 
>> picture 
>> below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 
>>
>> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>>
>> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I 
>> believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's 
>> got 
>> a Hunq) so 

Re: [RBW] Re: How you choose 2 Rivendells?

[J J]

Hi Masa, thanks for your kind message.

You asked "Can I ask you how you describe the feel of the shorter wheelbase 
Rivs please?" — in brief, I find the ride of the shorter wheelbase Rivs 
wonderful! 

Perhaps all of the characteristic differences between short and long 
wheelbase Rivs are relative, and it's hard for me to speak about the longer 
wheelbase models comparatively because I have only ridden one of them, and 
for a short time. The Hunqapillar has always felt very stable and 
comfortable to me regardless of the riding surface (pavement or off road), 
surface conditions, or loads that I carry (whether heavily loaded in the 
front, the back, both front and back, or unloaded). It tracks straight and 
inspires confidence. 

But I think it's important to note that the Hunq's "short" wheelbase is 
short only relative to the newer super long wheelbase Rivs, not short to 
most other bicycles. Grant was singing the virtues of Riv's long chain 
stays many, many years before Riv started producing super long models. 

Folks who have more recent very long Rivs rave about how stable and 
comfortable they are. I'd love to ride one for longer because it sounds 
fantastic. I'm sure your Platypus rides beautifully!

While the old Toyo Atlantis has a shorter wheelbase and chain stay than the 
Hunq, its ride is similarly stable and confidence inspiring. It does feel a 
touch more nimble, more easily maneuverable. (And I love the classic 
proportions and aesthetics of the Atlantis.) The front end is floppier than 
the Hunq's and I'm not sure if that is because of the geometry differences 
or because it has a narrow drop bar. I have noticeably more toe clip 
overlap on the Atlantis than the Hunq. I will be getting an upright, swept 
back bar for the Atlantis (I have Bosco on the Hunq) because riding drop 
bars very much hurts my shoulders and wrists. I'm curious how upright bars 
will change how the Atlantis feels. I have much wider tires on the Hunq 
(55mm) than the Atlantis (40mm), which also affect the feel. I will get 
wider tires for the Atlantis, too.

I very much take to heart a point Grant makes over and over: many factors 
and many variables beyond geometry numbers affect how a bike rides and 
feels. 

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 8:39:04 AM UTC-5 Masa wrote:

> Hi Jim, I too am really enjoying this thread to know how the people 
> ride/plan their Rivendells!
> I can easily tell that how your Rivs are beautiful even from the head 
> badges:)
>
> Can I ask you how you describe the feel of the shorter wheelbase Rivs 
> please?
> Since my only Riv is Platypus which has longer wheelbase and so do 
> majority of the current line up of Riv, I'm not familiar with the shorter 
> ones.
> The more I like the feel of the longer wheelbase Riv, the more I'm curious 
> how is the feel of the shorter ones.
> I would like to know how you feel them!
>
> Thanks,
> Masa
>
> 2022年12月8日木曜日 11:33:57 UTC+9 J J:
>
>> I’m really enjoying this thread! Thanks for initiating it, Masa.
>>
>> Like John, I have a Waterford Hunqapillar (58) I bought new from 
>> Rivendell. Also like John, I have a Toyo Atlantis (61), a recent 
>> acquisition. So John's post really resonated. 
>>
>> [image: Hunqapillar head badge.jpg]
>>
>> A few weeks ago someone asked me, “Why did you buy an Atlantis if you 
>> already have a Hunq?” I really hadn’t thought about that question. I guess 
>> the implication was that the two bikes had overlap of purpose. 
>>
>> To my mind it was more like, why *wouldn’t* I buy the Atlantis? It 
>> checked a lot of boxes: Toyo built; fully lugged; quintessential Rivendell; 
>> beautiful; robust; classic good looks; the submarine green. 
>>
>> [image: Atlantis head badge.jpg]
>>
>> I don’t think anything could replace the Hunq, my true all-rounder. I’d 
>> buy another if the bike gods kindly bestowed one on me. There is precedent 
>> in my household of having two of the same bike, a Wilbury and a Glorius.
>>
>> [image: Wilbury head badge.jpg]
>>
>> [image: Glorius head badge.jpg]
>>
>> But the more I ride the Atlantis the more I appreciate just how special 
>> it is, too. It reminds me of the Hunq in robustness, stability, and lovely 
>> ride, but it is more compact and a bit livelier and lighter. And I could 
>> load it up if I needed to. I love the feel and aesthetics of the shorter 
>> wheelbase Rivs. All Rivs are great no matter where they are produced. 
>> There's something distinctive about the Toyo-built Rivs that's hard to pin 
>> down. 
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 2:03:24 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>>
>>> Shoji,
>>>
>>> Thank you for educating me on Atlantis history 

Re: [RBW] Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

[J J]

The scones came together quickly and are delicious… we used the basic recipe 
and added matcha and fresh blueberries. Fantastic. Perfect energy for a cold 
ride today!

> On Nov 20, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Eric Marth  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Jim! A friend asked for the packing list so I figured I'd go for it. 
> When I've read other ride reports I've thought "I wouldn't mind reading a 
> complete list of what they brought." 
> 
> The scone recipe is from America's Test Kitchen, I've used it for years. I've 
> made it with dried cherries, currants and, my fave, crystalized dried ginger. 
> Recipe attached. The soup is from Alice Waters's Art of Simple Food. Will 
> Keating asked for the recipe so I already have a scan, attached. The recipe 
> is altered slightly from another with a lot of "if this, then that" so I 
> simplified with an index card which helps me out. Paul seemed to really like 
> it. This is a standard for me and something I make a few times a year going 
> back a decade. This time the squash was a volunteer that grew out of our 
> compost pile. 
> 
> I'm glad you enjoyed, Brian. Paul might be around to chime in. I know he 
> dislikes racks! He definitely packed way lighter than me but didn't weigh his 
> load. He had a medium Sackville Saddlesack and a rectangular Sackville bag 
> that's very similar to the old Riv Brand-V handlebar bag. He also rode with a 
> lightweight nylon backpack which had some extra layers. 
> 
> I def enjoy glass, ceramics and metal for drinking. I'll pack plastic if I 
> have to! I love my AeroPress, the simplicity, size and quality of coffee I 
> cannot beat. Also great that it makes a cup at a time. I use it at home for 
> every cup of coffee. 
> 
> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 9:41:58 AM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
> Excellent ride report, as always Eric! I appreciate the little details you 
> choose to include. As a fellow swoopy hillibike rider, I am curious a bit 
> about your companion’s setup on his Susie and his experience. Maybe you can 
> convince him to share his perspective too. It would be really cool to have 
> two different perspectives and setups from the same ride!
> 
> I am right there with you on the aversion to drinking from plastic these 
> days. Something has changed with me these past few years where I have started 
> phasing out all my plastic drinking containers because when I use them, I 
> seem to strongly taste the plastic and it really turns me off. I don’t think 
> it is related to COVID or anything because to my knowledge I still have not 
> been infected by it. But something has definitely changed, and as a result 
> I’ve switched to all-stainless or titanium drinking vessels. The only pass I 
> give is to my trusty Aeropress, because the coffee it makes is just too damn 
> good!
> 
> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 10:52:52 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
> Eric, thanks for the report. It was nicely structured and written with such 
> gentle thoughtfulness. Thanks also for sharing your packing list in so much 
> detail. I wonder if there have ever been recipe exchange threads on this 
> forum: what to prepare to eat when you’re taking a ride on your Rivendell :) 
> The scones and soup sounded delicious! Your report inspired a strong urge to 
> ride. 
> 
> Jim
> 
>> On Nov 19, 2022, at 21:24, MoVelo > wrote:
>> 
>> Excellent report. Thanks for sharing with us what sounds like an epic 
>> adventure.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 3:15:59 PM UTC-6 alancrai...@gmail.com <> 
>> wrote:
>> Great report. Sounds like a fantastic ride and near perfect accommodations 
>> for a rustic overnighter. Thanks for sharing! 
>> 
>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 6:44:49 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com <> 
>> wrote:
>> Thanks, brizbarn. Overpacking is my strong suit regardless of where I'm 
>> going or for how long! 
>> 
>> I haven't been tested in a laboratory setting but I think I'm sweat at an 
>> unusually high rate. Has always been true of me. I was definitely quite 
>> thirsty at the end of the day and would have preferred to drink even more 
>> water as the cabin dried out from the woodstove. I have some sport tops but 
>> another personal sensory thing for me is drinking over plastic, I don't like 
>> it for hot or cold drinks and I prefer a metal edge. I didn't mind stopping 
>> a few times to swig some water while riding. 
>> 
>> I do wonder if maybe I was over dressed but I didn't feel like I was burning 
>> up, just sweating like mad. I might have liked a lighter sweater, something 
>> like the Wooly Warm jerseys but without the weird cut, fit and pockets 
>> (they're g

Re: [RBW] Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

[J J]

Thanks for the recipes, and your variations, Eric!! I'll report back when I 
make them :) I have Art of Simple Food but I haven't looked at it in years. 
I love AeroPress too.

On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 11:25:09 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks, Jim! A friend asked for the packing list so I figured I'd go for 
> it. When I've read other ride reports I've thought "I wouldn't mind reading 
> a complete list of what they brought." 
>
> The scone recipe is from America's Test Kitchen, I've used it for years. 
> I've made it with dried cherries, currants and, my fave, crystalized dried 
> ginger. Recipe attached. The soup is from Alice Waters's Art of Simple 
> Food. Will Keating asked for the recipe so I already have a scan, attached. 
> The recipe is altered slightly from another with a lot of "if this, then 
> that" so I simplified with an index card which helps me out. Paul seemed to 
> really like it. This is a standard for me and something I make a few times 
> a year going back a decade. This time the squash was a volunteer that grew 
> out of our compost pile. 
>
> I'm glad you enjoyed, Brian. Paul might be around to chime in. I know he 
> dislikes racks! He definitely packed way lighter than me but didn't weigh 
> his load. He had a medium Sackville Saddlesack and a rectangular Sackville 
> bag that's very similar to the old Riv Brand-V handlebar bag. He also rode 
> with a lightweight nylon backpack which had some extra layers. 
>
> I def enjoy glass, ceramics and metal for drinking. I'll pack plastic if I 
> have to! I love my AeroPress, the simplicity, size and quality of coffee I 
> cannot beat. Also great that it makes a cup at a time. I use it at home for 
> every cup of coffee. 
>
> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 9:41:58 AM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Excellent ride report, as always Eric! I appreciate the little details 
>> you choose to include. As a fellow swoopy hillibike rider, I am curious a 
>> bit about your companion’s setup on his Susie and his experience. Maybe you 
>> can convince him to share his perspective too. It would be really cool to 
>> have two different perspectives and setups from the same ride!
>>
>> I am right there with you on the aversion to drinking from plastic these 
>> days. Something has changed with me these past few years where I have 
>> started phasing out all my plastic drinking containers because when I use 
>> them, I seem to strongly taste the plastic and it really turns me off. I 
>> don’t think it is related to COVID or anything because to my knowledge I 
>> still have not been infected by it. But something has definitely changed, 
>> and as a result I’ve switched to all-stainless or titanium drinking 
>> vessels. The only pass I give is to my trusty Aeropress, because the coffee 
>> it makes is just too damn good!
>>
>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 10:52:52 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Eric, thanks for the report. It was nicely structured and written with 
>>> such gentle thoughtfulness. Thanks also for sharing your packing list in so 
>>> much detail. I wonder if there have ever been recipe exchange threads on 
>>> this forum: what to prepare to eat when you’re taking a ride on your 
>>> Rivendell :) The scones and soup sounded delicious! Your report inspired a 
>>> strong urge to ride. 
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2022, at 21:24, MoVelo  wrote:
>>>
>>> Excellent report. Thanks for sharing with us what sounds like an epic 
>>> adventure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 3:15:59 PM UTC-6 alancrai...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Great report. Sounds like a fantastic ride and near perfect 
>>>> accommodations for a rustic overnighter. Thanks for sharing! 
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 6:44:49 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, brizbarn. Overpacking is my strong suit regardless of where 
>>>>> I'm going or for how long! 
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't been tested in a laboratory setting but I think I'm sweat at 
>>>>> an unusually high rate. Has always been true of me. I was definitely 
>>>>> quite 
>>>>> thirsty at the end of the day and would have preferred to drink even more 
>>>>> water as the cabin dried out from the woodstove. I have some sport tops 
>>>>> but 
>>>>> another personal sensory thing for me is drinking over plastic, I don't 
>>>>> l

Re: [RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

[J J]

@scottluly  thanks for your note. The 24F/36R ration is important to me for 
a few reasons, a few scenarios. It's there when I need it.  It gives me the 
proverbial bailout gear. It allows me to tackle steep, long climbs if I'm 
otherwise fatigued or in pain. It's easier on my knees and back. It helps 
when I haul very heavy loads up hills (75, 80 pounds is not unusual). It 
helps me get through slogs when I can balance pedaling anaerobically with 
going aerobic. I have as much high gearing as I practically need for the 
riding I do with the 46 big ring and 11 tooth rear, and I'm not interested 
in competitive riding, even "friendly" competition (I ignore riding mates 
who try to foment that dynamic!). It's handy to have the wide range. I see 
no down side to the super low gearing even if I don't use it much. I'm glad 
to have it when need arises though. I can only speak for myself, though! 
Everybody has their own needs and desires.

As an aside, I have not warmed up to 1x gearing even though I get why folks 
swear by it. I like triples.

I hope this was helpful, but if you were looking for something else, let me 
know.

Best wishes.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:51:45 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> @junes1junes, I'm building an Atlantis that I hope to use here and there 
> loaded for dirt touring and bike packing. At this point, I'm undecided on 
> gearing and your gearing raised my brows. On my MTB I run 26 front and 32 
> rear (as my lowest gear ratio) and that feels on the verge of spin out.
>
> Any thoughts on where your 24 front/36 rear combo shines and why you run 
> it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:41:23 AM MST, J J  
> wrote: 
>
>
>
> I, too, would choose my Hunqapillar. The setup would be generally what I 
> am currently running on my green Waterford-built 58:
>
>- Upright, wide, swept-back bars with mirror and bell
>- Low gearing (triple with 24 tooth smallest in front, 9-speed with at 
>least 36 tooth biggest in back)
>- Rapid Rise RD
>- Friction thumb shifting
>- Tires no smaller than 50mm
>- Cantilever brakes
>- B67 saddle
>- Robust wheels with at least 36 spokes; dynamo hub
>- Good lights
>- Flat pedals
>- Rear rack
>
> I could get particular about specific components; they would just have to 
> fit these general parameters. The main thing is the Hunq itself. The  more 
> examples of other bikes I’ve ridden — including other Rivs —  the more 
> attached I get to the Hunq as a do-it-all. The other bikes seem to have too 
> much or too little of something relative to the Hunq. They might be fun, 
> interesting, comfortable, capable, whatever, but they feel compromised or 
> annoying in some way, big or small. The Hunq compromises nothing to me and 
> riding it puts me in a happy place.
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:29 AM UTC-5 captaincon...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> I nominate my 650b Hunqapillar.  It's the most comfortable bike I've 
> ridden, and it's geometry doesn't seem to be intended for drops, flat, or 
> upright handlebars--it feels different but good with each.
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:35:43 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>
> [image: 20210614_081755.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:20:20 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
> This is a fun one! I guess that I’ll kinda cop out and say that what I 
> have now is what I’d run as a do-it-all. I really like the Gus but I see it 
> as a 75% unpaved sorta bike which is why I’m pretty happy with my Atlantis. 
> I live and ride in San Francisco and so see a lot of elevation changes both 
> while commuting and while riding aimlessly. Thus my current setup (44-32-22 
> up front, 12-32 in the rear) allows me to take on the steepest San 
> Francisco hill and gnarliest unpaved route in Marin.
>
> The addition of the basket has made it a true quiver killer in my eyes and 
> makes me so happy that I no longer view baskets with disdain. I was sorely 
> missing out. I’ve been a long time admirer (I saw my first Riv in 2008) but 
> I’m a new owner (August of this year). I’m sure my answer will change over 
> time, but, for now, the Atlantis is all that I need. 
>
> Also also: I just did the attached route and featured a lot of rough 
> terrain with the final 40 miles being exclusively paved. The Atlantis was 
> supremely comfortable on all of it. 
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I have one Riv that already does all this, but I'm cheating the premise of 
> the thread cuz it's a custom I had built for the purpose. So I'll shift my 
> answer to: What if I didn't have a car and part of the ride to go shopping 
> included gnarly singletrack! 
>
&

[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

[J J]

I, too, would choose my Hunqapillar. The setup would be generally what I am 
currently running on my green Waterford-built 58:

   - Upright, wide, swept-back bars with mirror and bell
   - Low gearing (triple with 24 tooth smallest in front, 9-speed with at 
   least 36 tooth biggest in back)
   - Rapid Rise RD
   - Friction thumb shifting
   - Tires no smaller than 50mm
   - Cantilever brakes
   - B67 saddle
   - Robust wheels with at least 36 spokes; dynamo hub
   - Good lights
   - Flat pedals
   - Rear rack

I could get particular about specific components; they would just have to 
fit these general parameters. The main thing is the Hunq itself. The  more 
examples of other bikes I’ve ridden — including other Rivs —  the more 
attached I get to the Hunq as a do-it-all. The other bikes seem to have too 
much or too little of something relative to the Hunq. They might be fun, 
interesting, comfortable, capable, whatever, but they feel compromised or 
annoying in some way, big or small. The Hunq compromises nothing to me and 
riding it puts me in a happy place.
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:29 AM UTC-5 captaincon...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I nominate my 650b Hunqapillar.  It's the most comfortable bike I've 
> ridden, and it's geometry doesn't seem to be intended for drops, flat, or 
> upright handlebars--it feels different but good with each.
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:35:43 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>
>> [image: 20210614_081755.jpg]
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:20:20 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> This is a fun one! I guess that I’ll kinda cop out and say that what I 
>>> have now is what I’d run as a do-it-all. I really like the Gus but I see it 
>>> as a 75% unpaved sorta bike which is why I’m pretty happy with my Atlantis. 
>>> I live and ride in San Francisco and so see a lot of elevation changes both 
>>> while commuting and while riding aimlessly. Thus my current setup (44-32-22 
>>> up front, 12-32 in the rear) allows me to take on the steepest San 
>>> Francisco hill and gnarliest unpaved route in Marin.
>>>
>>> The addition of the basket has made it a true quiver killer in my eyes 
>>> and makes me so happy that I no longer view baskets with disdain. I was 
>>> sorely missing out. I’ve been a long time admirer (I saw my first Riv in 
>>> 2008) but I’m a new owner (August of this year). I’m sure my answer will 
>>> change over time, but, for now, the Atlantis is all that I need. 
>>>
>>> Also also: I just did the attached route and featured a lot of rough 
>>> terrain with the final 40 miles being exclusively paved. The Atlantis was 
>>> supremely comfortable on all of it. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I have one Riv that already does all this, but I'm cheating the premise 
 of the thread cuz it's a custom I had built for the purpose. So I'll shift 
 my answer to: What if I didn't have a car and part of the ride to go 
 shopping included gnarly singletrack! 

 Ok the answer is Gus Boots-Willsen. I'd move most of my parts over:
 SRAM 1x11 drivetrain
 Sugino 152mm 36t cranks (maybe a smaller front ring, I don't care much 
 about spinning out)
 Deity pedals 
 WI rear hub
 Velocity Atlas rims
 Bosco bars
 Face Plater stem
 Nitto post
 Brooks B17
 Paul Motolites and levers
 Nitto Big Rack

 I'd swap the front hub for a SON Dyno, a move I wish I'd done when I 
 had Rick build my wheels. 
 Would probably add front low-rider racks. 

 This would give me all the stuff I love about Rivs (except lugs..don't 
 tell anybody but I love the fillet welds on Gus, my custom has a couple, 
 too) in a stouter frame that will handle big loads and gnarly terrain. 

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if 
> you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had 
> to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you 
> build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to 
> the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which 
> fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not 
> bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to 

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

[J J]

You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread. With all of your experience 
on a gazillion bikes, what do you think accounts for “the magical Riv ride he 
designs into these frames”? What makes it happen?

> On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to post 
> here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is 
> slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk about 
> other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about my 
> custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem maybe 
> not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your bikes! :
> 
> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock (there's 
> a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put it in a turn 
> it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change it. It does 
> this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops right back to 
> where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and nothing rides like a 
> Rivendell 
> 
> Joe Bernard 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

[J J]

Interesting discussions about benefits of and problems with kickstands. 

Richard, I'm totally with you about how useful the double is. 

For fun I looked back on Riv's website about 10 years ago (specifically Oct 
2011) to see what they had written about kickstands in general and the 
double Pletschers in particular:


**

*KICKSTANDS*

   - Every bike that isn’t strictly a race bike will benefit from a 
   kickstand, but kickstands turn off people by the tens of thousands. Why? 
   Because of old associations with cheap bikes? That may be it. It must be 
   it. But they’re no less functional on an expensive bike, and the expensive 
   bike is the one you’d most like to not fall over, isn’t it? The one you’d 
   least like to see topple?
   - Clamp on kickstands can smash and wreck thin chainstays…so if you have 
   a history of stripping the threads on screws and peanut butter jar lids, 
   stay away. Wrap the stays with bar-tape. Clamp securely but not 
   oversecurely. Or better yet, get one of the Pletscher clamp-cushions we 
   offer.
   - Few expensive bikes have brazed-on kickstand plates, but most of ours 
   (not the Roadeo) do. That makes kickstands easy and avoids clamping damage. 
   But it is possible to rip the weld apart if you, like, sit on the bike and 
   fall over on the kickstand side. It has happened. No need. Be careful, and 
   enjoy your kickstand.
   - We sell the Swiss-made Pletscher model, not the almost as good 
   Greenfield. The story we heard is that Pletscher developed the inner spring 
   mechanism, and Greenfield has adopted it (in a business agreement). Either 
   way, they’re both good.

*PLETSCHER TWIN-LEGGER*

   - Single-leggers are fine & the way to go for daily use.
   - But if the lean angle exceeds such and such and the weight is more 
   than so and so, a single-legged kickstand will be overwhelmed.
   - This Pletscher Two-Legger thrives in  those conditions.
   - We wouldn't offer it if it weren't spectacular. Here's how it is:
   - -- It works great.
  - -- It's clever.
  - -- It's Swiss.
  - -- It has heritage without being trendy and coveteous.
  - -- It's affordable, although just barely.
  - -- You can't buy it at the Five-and-Dime.
   - It weighs about 1.6 pounds.
   - As is the case with the single-letter kickstand, you have to cut it to 
   size.
   - Here's what you do: []


On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Right on, Richard. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 12:20 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>
>> I have felt exactly the same for almost almost 50 years. Touring on my 
>> Clem last July my double kickstand was an absolute joy. While everyone else 
>> was looking around for something to lean on I was chilling. When their 
>> bikes were falling over, mine was solid. Plus, the nature of the Clem L, 
>> with no top tube along with the Bosco bar make unfriendly to the “lean”. 
>> The stand has become a favorite feature of the bike. But I am just an old 
>> slow guy:)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Will Boericke  wrote:
>>
>> If you can't find something to lean it on, keep riding.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a "leaner" as well.
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:47:15 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It’s been my consistent observation and experience that kickstands 
>>>> cause more damage than they offer any “solution.”
>>>>
>>>> It’s always been easy to lean my bike against something. Sometimes I 
>>>> even lean it on the ground. It’s never fallen off the ground. 
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 08:41, Mark C  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> I don't think the single kickstands put all that much stress on the 
>>>> plate. The double stands are a whole nother thing. I have no idea how 
>>>> people use theirs, but there is a temptation to push the bike off of the 
>>>> stand (like on a motorcycle) rather than pick the rear of the bike up and 
>>>> close the stand. That puts a lot of stress on the front of the plate that 
>>>> could easily lead to the kind of damage shown here. These stands are handy 
>>>> for keeping the bike upright with loads, and there shouldn't be excessive 
>>>> stress in that position. On recumbents, people even try to sit on the bike 
>>>> while on the stand! - not a good idea.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[J J]

Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy 
Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I 
see some humor there, whether he intends it or not. 

Anyway, my daily ride is a Hunqapillar that I bought new about 11 years 
ago. I was precious about it for a hot minute, but a) I realized pretty 
quickly that it was futile and thus stressful to try to avoid dings and 
scratches; b) I reminded myself that a primary reason I got the Hunq was 
that I wanted a fun do-everything bike, an “all rounder plus”, the plus 
being that it is robust enough to carry me and any size load I wanted to 
haul, for as long as I want to haul it. 

So I use it in that way. I will take it grocery or farmers market shopping. 
I run errands with it. I use three or four locks. I used to occasionally 
commute to work on it (before my office went to mostly full-time remote 
work post-pandemic), but I realized that I do not enjoy *commuting* by 
bike. I live in a busy area in DC and the morning and afternoon rush hour 
commuting *energy* — definitely from cars, but also other bikers, 
 including the rushing, the noises, the risk taking, the aggressiveness — 
was turning one of my very favorite activities, riding a bike, into another 
source of stress. It was as if commuting by bike was starting to sully my 
relationship to my bike and to biking. And I did not want that. 

This sort of goes against Grant’s notion, or at least hope, that biking 
will be a huge part of people’s everyday lives. As far as a commute goes, 
it’s aspirational for me. I will do that when there are protected bike 
lanes and much fewer cars on the road. I am not keen on being a martyr for 
the cause of biking (or commuting!). The sort of change in road and bike 
infrastructure that I’d like to see (and I imagine most of us want) 
requires collective action, organizing, and so on. Individuals can only do 
so much. 

By the way, my bike’s kickstand mounting plate also “peeled” partway off. I 
sent photos of it to Riv and Will said: “yeah we see that on some of our 
bikes, best thing to do is to buy the kickstand mounting hardware and a 
long bolt to pass through the (peeled) plate.” I believe it was a very rare 
for Rivendell design or manufacturing misstep. The weld simply was not 
strong enough. The peeling exposed a big area of raw steel on a part of the 
bike that is most likely to get wet and mucked up. I just have to be 
mindful of it. No rust has developed, I clean and treat it regularly, and 
one day I’ll get it repaired and reinforced and repainted (I’ve been 
telling myself this for a few years now! — I just can’t stand to be without 
the bike even for a day. 

Jim

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:13:39 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
>> I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate 
>> separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at 
>> the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently 
>> the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for 
>> maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the 
>> kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> [image: IMG_0750]
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 5:54 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not 
>> that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got 
>> taken off ages ago... Just curious.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:49 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>>> When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he 
>>> warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought 
>>> I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for 
>>> it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially 
>>> loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting 
>>> hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday 
>>> I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go 
>>> along with it. 
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my 
>>> computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he 
>>> has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls 
>>> "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't 
>>> sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  
>>> The good news 

Re: [RBW] Philadelphia Bike Expo 2022

[J J]

Thank you, Roberta and Leah. Looks like all of you had a blast! 

> On Oct 31, 2022, at 10:25 AM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
> 
> Scandalous video of the Rivendell staff:
> 
> 
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>  
> .
> 
> 
>> On Oct 31, 2022, at 9:06 AM, Roberta  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I'll leave the long narrative to Leah, but I loved meeting everyone.  
>> Besides the group above, I met John S, Jamie from Washington DC who had the 
>> fanciest Clem L ever in the beautiful RBW blue!  He even had lugged stem!  
>> (Did anyone take a picture?), a very nice couple (I think her name was 
>> Claudia) from NY who just got a Platy and was looking for ideas to build up 
>> her bike, Rich L (what a treat), and the great guys from Riv, Deb from Rivet 
>> Saddles, Johnny Coast, Chapman.  Paul's was there with their beautiful 
>> colorful parts (check out the fuchsia--I think my fav), Keystone bikes, 
>> Simon and Firth, Route Werks (their bag is cool!, just a bit small), Swift, 
>> Nittany Mountain works (I have three of their many-thing bags).  
>> 
>> There were seminars, but I only went to one--Pam's where she took out item 
>> after item, explaining the purpose of each one, from her well used Riv 
>> Panniers.  Do you remember the scene from the original "Mary Poppins" taking 
>> items from her carpet bag?  It was like that-everything but the kitchen 
>> sink, with everything having a good purpose.  Ron of Ron's bike also was 
>> there and had a talk.
>> 
>> The numbers for the booths and attendance were much higher this 
>> year--pre-pandemic levels, I understand.  Sunday's numbers were probably 
>> half of Saturday's, but still elbow room for everyone even on Saturday.  
>> Food trucks were back (and delicious).  The vibe in the air was fantastic.
>> 
>> We went on an early morning ride with Pam on Saturday, thru the park and 
>> then the historical district, and winded our way back to the convention 
>> center by 10-ish.  I didn't go, but there was a big afterparty at Keystone 
>> Bikes that I understand was a blast.  We were planning an early morning ride 
>> over the Ben Franklin Bridge to NJ on Sunday, but that got cancelled in the 
>> early morning hours.  Perhaps we'll plan that next year.  A beautiful 10 
>> mile ride over the Delaware River to the Camden waterfront (it's nicer than 
>> you expect).
>> 
>> I loved the valet parking.  Free, safe, and they only ask for donations that 
>> benefit the local bike coop.
>> 
>> Roberta
>> 
>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 11:58:23 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>> All of this, including the anticipation of a long narrative report, makes me 
>> very very happy
>> 
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> 
>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 7:09:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Hi All! I got back a few hours ago - it was a 10 hour drive each way - and 
>> it was worth it. I have a lot to say on the matter but will leave it for now 
>> because I stayed up talking last night until 1:30 am with one Pamela Murray, 
>> who abandoned her unsatisfactory Air B and B to bunk in my king sized bed in 
>> the hotel, lol. 
>> 
>> I’ll leave you with a few photos for now…
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 1:24 PM, JAS > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Great photo, RivSisters!!  You're going to have so much fun.  More photos, 
>>> please, for those of us wishing we could be there.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Joyce
>>> 
>>> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:27:05 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> Heyyy look at you's! ‍♂️ Have fun!!!
>>> 
>>> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:23:11 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>> The RivSisters are getting the party started. Ok, actually we went to bed 
>>> but here is real, raw footage of three of us tonight. And tomorrow, there 
>>> will be more of us. 
>>> 
>>> Left to right: Pamela Murray, Leah Peterson, and Roberta Chase.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 28, 2022, at 11:31 AM, JohnS > wrote:
 
 Looking forward to seeing everyone on Saturday! I'll be at the food court 
 for 12:30 to say hello. Otherwise I'll be taking it all in and picking up 
 my free gift from Will, when I say, "and I for one welcome our new insect 
 overlords". LOL!
>>> 
 
 JohnS
 
 On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:25:50 PM UTC-4 Pam Bikes wrote:
 I'll be riding to the Expo Sat  
 morning, doing a 

Re: [RBW] Yves Gomez – mustardified

[J J]

The Sam is beautiful! 

This yellow is among my top very favorite colors on a Rivendell. It somehow 
feels both classic and modern at the same time. 

Thanks for the photos.


> On Oct 28, 2022, at 11:17 AM, Max S  wrote:
> 
> That's a lovely looking bike, Jason! 
> 
> - Max "irrational desire to bid on the Sam to have a matching his/hers pair" 
> in A2
> 
> On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 7:47:08 AM UTC-4 J Schwartz wrote:
> Hi Ryan, I think we may have been in touch when I was researching the Imron 
> Harvest Gold color.
> 
> I'll make a new post to detail specifics since this thread isn't about the 
> sale of this frameset, 
> but to answer your question: I didn't intend to sell it but I'm trying to 
> reduce the amount of things I have.  I have an Appaloosa and a Romulus , so 
> the Sam sort of sits in between them.  As much as it's been with me for 13 
> years or so, I am resisting the pull of emotional attachment to an object. 
> 
> If anyone is thinking about working with Jack at Franklin, I can strongly 
> recommend him.  But make sure you have patience as it will take months.
> thanks
> Jason
> 
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 12:49:43 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
> Yup...in 2001 I had my Riv Road (Curt Goodrich-built) painted Imron Harvest 
> Gold. Originally I thought of red and then decided on something 
> different...from the autumn color palette - I love fall. This was before the 
> color became so popular. I endured some ribbing about it being the same   
> color as poopy diapers, etc .,  but it turned out to be a great color which 
> changes subtly depending on lighting(sunlight/cloud/indoors). 
> 
> Your painter did a great job on that Sam. If you don't mind me asking, why 
> are you selling it after putting all that work into it? Too small? Another 
> bike? Excuse me for being nosy...or curious and apologies/condolences  in 
> advance if it's a life event forcing the sale
> 
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 7:37:27 AM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:
> 
> Really nice looking Yves
> I had my Hillborne repaired and re-painted by Jack also...I believe it's the 
> same color.
> I requested Imron Harvest Goldwhich Riv used in the early days on some 
> their bike...maybe the long low and some customs.
> Looks very similar 
> Jack did an amazing job.  replacing my derailleur hanger and adding a couple 
> rack mounts.
> this is my 2009 Hillborne I purchased new from Riv when they came out...the 
> original green/gold.
> it's a 56.  I've had it for a long time.  But will likely be selling it in 
> the coming weeks.  Probably as a frameset
> 
> 
> JS
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:10:26 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote:
> Beautiful bike.
> 
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 5:54:49 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
> Max, How did you go about conveying to Jack the color you chose ?  Jack told 
> me the Dupont Nason paint he applies uses the same color chart as the former 
> Imron, but those charts don't translate well into digital images online. The 
> actual colors in person are very different than the digital chart images. 
> 
> Your yellow paint is surely more mustard than candy as it has a certain 
> earthy/organic/softness in it's undertone. 
> 
> Three cheers for Jack ! I have a custom frame from him and another one in the 
> works, plus he did some repair and a repaint of my Bombadil. I'm thinking of 
> a yellow of some sort for my new frame also, something that conveys the deep 
> yellows in a sunflower and compliments both the silver and black of the parts 
> and tires. 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 1:39:27 AM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
> Thanks, Leah. I like Lemondrop, though I do like my mustard! 
> 
> Thank you all for the compliments! It's for my one-and-only, so after 
> (re)building up the bike, I only took a short test ride around the block. 
> Everything stayed attached, nothing rattled, and the bike handled very 
> nicely. Single-speed, low-ish gearing, smooth and quiet. I'm divided on the 
> black-painted wheels, but am fresh out of anything silver and 135 mm spaced, 
> so this will have to do for now. I guess it makes the frame color pop more. 
> 
> Y'all the best! 
> 
> - Max "pop-pop" in A2
> 
> 
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 4:36:41 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> I don’t think we can call this mustard. That’s not a pretty word and this 
> color is deserving of better. It’s Lemondrop.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Bill Lindsay > wrote:
>> 
>> MEGA APPROVE!!
> 
>> 
>> BL in EC
>> 
>> P.S. I'm sending you a direct message also...
>> 
>> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:47:03 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>> This here bicycle arrived damaged in shipping, and off it went to Jack 
>> Trumbull at Franklin Frame in OH to get the "top" tube and a couple of other 
>> things repaired. The damage was extensive enough that the frame needed to be 
>> repainted, so we went after a Clem mustardish color. Props to Jack for great 
>> work. 
>> 
>> - Max "who among us wasn't damaged 

[RBW] Re: Video: Vintage lugged steel mixte restoration

[J J]

That was such a great, calming video, fantastic build, beautiful bike. 
Thanks Eric. 

On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 8:10:00 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Last fall my partner inherited an old bike. It's an SR frame that her dad 
> purchased for her mom brand new in San Diego in 1987. It was over-geared, 
> set up with narrow tires on 27" wheels and needed a few more changes to 
> make it more comfortable and practical. I set out for nice wide gearing, 
> bars with more sweep back and maxing out the clearance for plump 38mm 
> tires. 
>
> The build video is up here , detailing all 
> of the changes along the way. 
>
> Cheers!
>
> [image: SR1.jpg]
>
> [image: SR5.jpg]
>
> [image: SR7.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[J J]

Just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying this thread. It’s very eye 
opening and timely, as I’ve recently been reflecting on various Rivendell 
wheelbases, older models vs newer, long vs medium vs short, and how these 
relative terms have shifted over time and changed bike philosophy and 
design and resulted in a distinct category of Rivendell models. I’ve not 
ridden a super long Riv yet but I’m eager to try a Susie or Gus or a 
successor. Thanks all. 
On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:48:15 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Everything I now ride on the full squish bike I used to do on my Jones 29. 
> That of course was a short wheelbase, tight chainstay bike with a 2.4” rear 
> tire & a full 3” up front. It was always a blast, gobbling up roots & small 
> rocks. It would take small drops in stride, 2’ at most and not at speed. I 
> moved to suspension due to some back issues that I thought might be 
> exacerbated by riding rigid. The Jones became my everything else bike and I 
> like the Clem better for those uses, so I sold the Jones. But the Clem is 
> just so comfy it has me thinking of doing without suspension once again.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:30 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I wouldn’t take this as gospel, but earlier this year in some email 
> correspondence with Will from Rivendell, he mentioned that there would be 
> another run of Susie / Gus frames either late this year or early next. He 
> also mentioned that it MAY be the last run of these, and that they were 
> considering consolidating the two into one bike instead of having two such 
> similar models. Now, I don’t know if that means one of the two would go 
> away, or both of them, or if it means a newly designed “Hillibike” that is 
> a combination of the two. I simply can’t speculate on what he meant any 
> more than that… but it’s something to keep in mind. 
>
>
> I can’t *fully* speak to the capabilities of my Gus because I’ve only had 
> it for 2 weeks now. However, in that amount of time I’ve put it through 
> nearly all of the situations I intend to use it for and the types of 
> terrain I plan to ride it on. I don’t consider myself a mountain biker per 
> se, but I do enjoy riding a bike on rough terrain. Never owned a bike with 
> suspension and never felt the need based on my riding style. I’ve been 
> known to do a bit of underbiking with a loaded steel gravel bike. I’m 
> firmly a “wheels on the ground” rider. I’m not jumping off rocks, hopping 
> over logs, or screaming down hills picking technical lines. I’m typically 
> riding rather slowly and methodically, simply enjoying the fact that I can 
> even ride a bike on terrain that a lot of folks wouldn’t consider. Green 
> and blue trails for this guy, and the tamer ones at that. I wanted to be 
> able to pack 30-odd pounds along with me for bikepacking trips on chunky 
> gravel, unmaintained forest roads, and exploring the occasional dry creek 
> bed or crossing scenario. My Gus replaced my Surly Troll for all the riding 
> mentioned above. Nothing crazy. Nothing technical. But I wanted it to be 
> capable. The weight limitations listed on the Susie ruled it out for me. 
> I’m not heavy, but not the lightest either (175-180 usually); but my weight 
> + loaded gear + terrain made me go with Gus.
>
>
> In the past two weeks, I’ve ridden my Gus (27.5 x 2.5 tires) approximately 
> 150 miles; spanning several paved rail trail routes, an s24o along some 
> rugged forest roads, and a couple of trips to local singletrack parks. It’s 
> proved entirely capable in all situations thus far. It cruises along, 
> carves turns, descends with confidence, and climbs like a mofo. Pretty much 
> what I want it to do.
>
>
> I think if you’re looking to replace a suspension mountain bike, or a bike 
> with a dropper post, or a bike you’d typically be bombing over roots and 
> hopping off rocks at speed, this bike AIN’T that.
>
>
> Hope my limited experience helps a bit!
>
>
> - Brian
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> "long wheelbase progressive geometry" The next marketing ploy!
>
> I agree on the tire size. I’m not sure what wheels you are running, but 
> the cliffhanger set up tubeless with a 2.4-5  would make it quite capable. 
> Again, this is depending on your wants. I love a stable bike that can bomb 
> some fun stuff and climb comfortably while getting me to and from the 
> trail. Deer and elk trail exploration, the bike shoulders surprisingly well 
> to get through some tough hike a bike. Could be the ATB the market “must” 
> have in a few years. 
>
> I won’t knock the sweet new bikes (or riders) that can fly through any 
> terrain at speeds that scare me! That’s just not what you buy one of these 
> bikes for. I love my Susie but can’t say that it would be a massive 
> difference over the Clem L if the Clem had similar wheels and tires. It’s a 
> 1 cm higher BB, not a huge difference. Run a shorter crank, your knees 
> 

[RBW] Re: FS - Swift Peregrine Randonneur Bag (new MUSA), Rivendell lugged stem (exc. cond)

[J J]

*The lugged stem has been sold*. 
Thanks for all the interest everyone!

On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 11:56:59 AM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> Hi all. A bump/price reduction and a sold notice. The Swift Randonneur Bag 
> is *sold *(thanks to all of you who expressed interest!). 
>
> *Reducing price of the lugged stem to $160*. Hit me up privately if 
> you're interested! Thanks again.
>
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:44:28 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> *A recent bike project went awry so over the next few days I will be 
>> listing some items that were destined for that build. Please reach out 
>> privately off list if you're interested in any of these deals. Thanks very 
>> much!*
>>
>>
>> *Swift Peregrine Randonneur Bag, 12L in Coyote color — $270 shipped conus*
>> Brand new, never mounted or used. This one is MUSA (I understand that 
>> Swift has moved some production to Southeast Asia). Gorgeous bag. I 
>> attached a photo here, and there are additional pics on Google Drive 
>> <https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1S5aztMPaQ_1wJwikJRnZath7NOHKFUd7?usp=sharing>.
>>  
>> You save $15 off Swift's list price, and you save shipping and tax. 
>>
>> [image: Swift Peregrine Rando-1s.jpeg]
>>
>> *Rivendell Nitto lugged stem 9 cm, excellent condition — $180 shipped 
>> conus*
>> The classic beauty and strength of these stems speak for themselves. This 
>> one has been very lightly ridden. The clamp is 26.0. I can also offer a new 
>> in package set of Nitto shims to use the stem with 25.4 bars at list price 
>> ($16). Rivendell charges $240 for these stems.
>>  
>> [image: lugged stem 3s.jpeg]
>> [image: lugged stem 2s.jpeg]
>>
>> [image: lugged stem 1s.jpeg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS - Swift Peregrine Randonneur Bag (new MUSA), Rivendell lugged stem (exc. cond)

[J J]

Hi all. A bump/price reduction and a sold notice. The Swift Randonneur Bag 
is *sold *(thanks to all of you who expressed interest!). 

*Reducing price of the lugged stem to $160*. Hit me up privately if you're 
interested! Thanks again.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:44:28 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> *A recent bike project went awry so over the next few days I will be 
> listing some items that were destined for that build. Please reach out 
> privately off list if you're interested in any of these deals. Thanks very 
> much!*
>
>
> *Swift Peregrine Randonneur Bag, 12L in Coyote color — $270 shipped conus*
> Brand new, never mounted or used. This one is MUSA (I understand that 
> Swift has moved some production to Southeast Asia). Gorgeous bag. I 
> attached a photo here, and there are additional pics on Google Drive 
> <https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1S5aztMPaQ_1wJwikJRnZath7NOHKFUd7?usp=sharing>.
>  
> You save $15 off Swift's list price, and you save shipping and tax. 
>
> [image: Swift Peregrine Rando-1s.jpeg]
>
> *Rivendell Nitto lugged stem 9 cm, excellent condition — $180 shipped 
> conus*
> The classic beauty and strength of these stems speak for themselves. This 
> one has been very lightly ridden. The clamp is 26.0. I can also offer a new 
> in package set of Nitto shims to use the stem with 25.4 bars at list price 
> ($16). Rivendell charges $240 for these stems.
>  
> [image: lugged stem 3s.jpeg]
> [image: lugged stem 2s.jpeg]
>
> [image: lugged stem 1s.jpeg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Your cyclist vs. motorist war/horror stories

[J J]

Thanks for starting this thread, Eric. 

As far as biking vs. motorists go, I’ve weirdly come to feel nostalgic 
about the first few months of pandemic lockdowns, which showed how pleasant 
urban biking life could be with cities devoid of motor traffic. It was calm 
and easy; bikers and pedestrians basically owned the streets. It’s horrible 
that it took an extraordinary global pandemic to show us how cities can be 
if they are not dominated by car traffic, but I’m afraid we haven’t 
absorbed the lessons.  

As life has inched back to “normalcy”, riding on DC streets feels more 
treacherous than ever. Traffic and aggressive drivers have returned with a 
vengeance. Just yesterday I was talking to folks in my little riding group 
about how the 10 mins of negotiating unruly street traffic to reach any 
number of great trails in DC is the most exhausting part of an all-day 
ride. 

I try to communicate with drivers as much as possible, making eye contact, 
signaling, pointing, gesticulating, thanking them verbally and with a nod 
and a wave. Most want to be good road citizens. 

But there are plenty of bad apples who are either just obnoxious, 
distracted, in too much of a hurry, oblivious, or intoxicated. It’s common 
around these parts to smell weed wafting out of cars.

A couple of weeks ago I was riding solo toward Rock Creek Park, going down 
a big hill on a road with a bike lane that ends abruptly. I claimed the 
middle of the road lane, and I saw a car in the mirror approaching way too 
fast. The driver hit the horn, startled the bejesus out of me, and a 
passenger stuck her head out of the window shouting, “Get out of our way!! 
Move your ass to the sidewalk!” 

At the next block we stopped at a red light and the car pulled beside me. 
The passengers were mouthing off at me. I said matter of factly, “FYI DC 
law allows bikes to use full lanes. And in this part of DC it is illegal 
for adults to ride on sidewalks.” Perhaps it was stupid of me to even 
engage.

The woman said, “Of course you can ride the sidewalk, you are not in a 
motor vehicle!! You’re blocking traffic, mother fxxker!”

The light turned green, I said “Whatever”, pedaled on my way, and veered 
off the main road. The car turned around and followed me, drove within two 
feet of my side, and another passenger made like he was going to punch me 
while shouting obscenities at me. The charming woman in the back seat spit 
at me. At this point adrenaline took over and I turned again onto a side 
street and made it up a steep incline faster than I ever would have thought 
possible. I had to get away. It felt like lunacy. 

Not long before that I was riding on a painted bike lane (physical barriers 
are not common in DC) and a woman drove into my lane, clipping me. My left 
brake lever scraped the length of her car. Somehow I maintained control of 
the bike with my right hand and pounded on the car with my left as I 
shouted at her. It happened so quickly, I was only reacting, not thinking. 
I managed to stop without crashing, I felt my heart pounding out of my 
chest, then the driver stopped her car, got out, and began yelling at me to 
watch where I’m going. She threatened to call the police because her car 
got scratched. It was absurd. I’m grateful that neither I nor my riding 
companion was hurt. 

So 99 percent of the time sharing the streets with motorists is fine. It’s 
the 1 percent that is worrying. My anecdotal sense that aggressive and 
distracted driving has increased is supported by data that shows that motor 
vehicles accidents that cause injuries and fatalities have been increasing 
since spring 2020, despite fewer overall miles driven, reversing years of 
decline. There’s a lot of speculation as to why the trend has shifted.  

I’m trying to be even more defensive and communicative as I ride. Some 
things are out of our control though. 

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:04:59 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

> I think the current worst I have had is when a car or truck buzzes too 
> close for comfort.  I am not always looking in my rear glasses mounted 
> mirror.  Instinct sometimes move me too far right and that has sometimes 
> been a problem,  I only take the lane when on a small narrow lane or when I 
> need to turn left.  This year I have been buzzed too many times and I 
> always leave plenty of room for cars and trucks, trucks have been the worst 
> offenders this year.  A few years ago I was forced off of the road and 
> luckily it was a dirt shoulder and I did hit it hard and the car just sped 
> off.  
>
> This year the worst is trying to get on a road from a shopping center 
> driveway without lights.  Cars with nowhere to go seen to be oblivious to 
> give a bike the right of way, but some drivers are overly courteous, jut 
> make sure the guy coming the other way is also.  
>
>
>
> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 8:05:44 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>> This is a serious topic but the loogie story made my chuckle. I 

Re: [RBW] Crustendell Clementine Clydesdale Cargo Cycle Conversion progress

[J J]

Wow, that’s a cool hybrid! Elegant and utilitarian. 
I can’t remember ever seeing a bicycle parking brake. 

> On Oct 6, 2022, at 8:46 AM, lconley  wrote:
> 
> Making some progress again at last. Fitting fenders and playing with tire 
> sizes. Going to install the chain today. Ordered the locking brake lever for 
> the parking brake.
> 
> <22-10-06s.jpg>
> 
> Laing 
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
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> .
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/82f84477-318d-4f98-a2ef-a7589f309942n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .
> <22-10-06s.jpg>

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[RBW] Re: Yves Gomez – mustardified

[J J]

That looks fantastic. Great color choice!!
On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 12:47:03 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:

> This here bicycle arrived damaged in shipping, and off it went to Jack 
> Trumbull at Franklin Frame in OH to get the "top" tube and a couple of 
> other things repaired. The damage was extensive enough that the frame 
> needed to be repainted, so we went after a Clem mustardish color. Props to 
> Jack for great work. 
>
> - Max "who among us wasn't damaged in shipping?" in A2 
>
> [image: Yves Gomez mustard downtube.jpeg][image: Yves Gomez mustard 
> driveside.jpeg][image: Yves Gomez mustard headtube.jpeg][image: Yves 
> Gomez mustard seat lug.jpeg][image: Yves Gomez mustard seat tube.jpeg]
>

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Re: [RBW] help identify a small part and a source for it

[J J]

Thanks for the link, Kim, and to all who replied here. Very helpful!

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:21:45 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
> https://www.modernbike.com/dia-compe-serrated-washer-for-rgc-agc--superbe-bag-of-10
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 6:53:13 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> It's been a while, but I used to buy these unthreaded aluminum spacers in 
>> lengths long enough to cut to exact size as needed. Granted, it's not 
>> clever reuse of readily available bike hardware, but I like the clean look 
>> of it, and you can fashion them into whatever size you need for the 
>> application:
>>
>> https://www.mcmaster.com/spacers/unthreaded-spacers/aluminum-unthreaded-spacers/system-of-measurement~metric/
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 7:48:56 AM UTC-4 Jennings wrote:
>>
>>> I used a cork from a wine bottle.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:46:41 AM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Mike Godwin, David, and Garth. I appreciate the suggestions and 
>>>> creative solutions!
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:48:36 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I like the idea of the plumbing washers and/or anything one wouldn't 
>>>>> normally consider !  
>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: I pedaled the puddle

[J J]

Looks like so much fun, Joe. Does farewell mean this was the last such 
ride? Brought back memories of a boating and waterskiing trip to Clear Lake 
a while back. Beautiful.

And your bike looks awesome as usual. What size tires are you running?
On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 2:43:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Ok technically I pedaled NEAR it, this was the farewell Pedal The Puddle 
> ride at Clear Lake CA. and they didn't do the loop around the lake this 
> year, just the 20 and 40 milers. I did the 20 which was billed as a "family 
> fun ride" but the first 8-or-so miles were pretty serious and steep to me! 
> But then we went down the other side and that was pretty rad. 
>
> I had a lot of fun and really didn't miss the brutal 67 miles around the 
> lake I had done a few times in the olden days, this was awesome. Then there 
> was BBQ!
>
> One Roadeo spotted, I think we had the only Rivs there. Note the very 
> worn-in Brooks, that's a Rivbike with big miles under its wheels 
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/rVXrjdo8MJNsaNow6
>
> Joe "puddle pedaler" Bernard 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[J J]

Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read Grant’s 
thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to the wild idea of 
designing and then manufacturing his own low normal RDs.

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered a few 
> mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes when Rapid 
> Rise was new and in production. 
>
> These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 
>
> [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]
>
> [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J J]

Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 

I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 

In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
really subjective. 

I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 

Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
amusing. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my Rivendell 
> Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably superior 
> to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the arms is 
> miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, the very 
> slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and shifters, I love 
> the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), and they're made 
> 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk of cash but 
> they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I did it. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

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Re: [RBW] help identify a small part and a source for it

[J J]

Thanks Mike Godwin, David, and Garth. I appreciate the suggestions and 
creative solutions!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:48:36 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> I like the idea of the plumbing washers and/or anything one wouldn't 
> normally consider !  

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[RBW] Re: Ride report: Blue Ridge loop

[J J]

I really enjoyed this report, Eric. It’s nicely written and has a great 
balance of personal reflections — including travails — with details about 
the ride itself, road, and terrain. It’s inspiring and makes me want to 
seek new paths.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:24:29 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for reading, Randy and duhbrr :) 
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 6:42:33 PM UTC-4 larson@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Great ride report and pictures! A beautiful part of the world, to be sure.
>> Randy in Wisconsin
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 3:35:46 PM UTC-5 duh...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Love these ride reports you've been doing, please keep up the good work!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Blue Ridge ramble
 23 September 2022
 82 miles, 8,300 feet

 Taken with Ray Hosler’s accounts of long rides in the Sierras riddled 
 with fire roads, trespassing and lots of climbing I’ve been looking for a 
 way to attempt something similar in my part of the world. Unfortunately 
 getting out to the mountains relative to where I live requires at least 
 three hours of driving. That creates enough friction that I can’t manage 
 it 
 every weekend. I do wonder what kind of riding shape I’d be in with easy 
 mountain access. 

 I’ve been investigating paper maps, Google maps and Strava maps looking 
 for alternate routes and roads with an aim towards avoiding highways and 
 roads well travelled. While I couldn’t find any confirmation that certain 
 roads connected to others while remaining passable by bike I felt 
 confident 
 enough to try and make a loop. My original charted course was 125 miles, 
 combining a new untested loop with an old, familiar one. 

 It seems that fall is on the way. The humidity has tapered off and 
 we’ve had some lovely weather. Some days in the mid 70s and perfect, 
 others 
 in the high 80s and still quite nice. The forecast for my ride predicted a 
 low of 48º in the morning with temperatures climbing to the mid 60s. This 
 might sound just about perfect for a day out with lots of climbing but 
 there was some unpleasant wind. With surface winds at 14mph and gusts up 
 to 
 28mph I would later find myself freezing. 

 I prepared for the trip over the course of the week, making lists of 
 what to bring along. There are stores and even restaurants along the route 
 but I didn’t want to rely on them for all of my food and water. I brought 
 along more than I needed. 

 I stuffed my Fab’s Chest with all of the below. 

 For food: A bag of peanut butter pretzel nuggets; an 85% chocolate bar; 
 a blend of walnuts, coconut flakes and pumpkin seeds; a peanut butter, 
 honey, coconut, salt and banana sandwich with shaved chocolate; and a 
 stainless container with a handful of salad greens, half an avocado, a 
 soft 
 boiled egg, walnuts, a carrot and a tin of mackerel. 

 Gear: A bag with spare front and rear lights, a power pack for lights, 
 phone and GPS. A spare tire (I’m still getting comfortable running my RH 
 extralights). Hand sanitizer, wipes. Two bandanas. Paper map of the area, 
 printed route instructions. Tool kit with Crank Bros multi tool, spare 
 tube, patch kit, tire levers. 

 The weather forecast left me confused. Getting ready at 4:00AM I 
 decided on a wool baselayer and a Patagonia Nano Puff. I wore my torn up 
 Kucharik wool shorts and wool socks. I packed a pair of Defeet glove 
 liners 
 and a linen short sleeve shirt. I wish I’d worn a long-sleeve wool jersey, 
 perhaps paired with a shell.

 My ride started on some gravel roads that had recently been scraped and 
 surfaced which left lots of fluffy dirt that had me sliding at times. 
 Perhaps there’s a tradition to scrape roads at the end of summer as I 
 encountered this problem on gravel roads throughout the ride. My route 
 took 
 me along a quiet farm lane that follows a stream then onto a dirt road, 
 with a strip of grass through the middle, with sorghum growing on one side 
 and soy on the other. I turned onto a highway for a few miles, then into a 
 neighborhood with many apple orchards, apple packing warehouses and a 
 small 
 post office. 

 [image: IMG_2582.jpg]

 My climbing began on a paved road in the countryside which after 
 several miles turned to a gravel fire road. 

 The fire road was a lot of fun and slow going. I used my 26T front ring 
 and shifted through my cassette as needed, I wasn’t trying for speed but 
 comfortable climbing. I didn't know what lay ahead and I didn't want to 
 burn out early. The road was mostly in good shape with nominal sized 
 gravel, some chunks, some 

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[J J]

I would definitely buy a Riv OM RD. No hesitation. 

I also have a hoard of low normal mechs. After I tried one and loved it, I 
went all in with almost every Shimano model I could find. Maybe too much 
all in! But I like having multiple redundant backups of things that work 
for me. I have sold some because I’m the living embodiment of the tension 
between the urge to acquire and the urge to purge.

I can’t wait to see Rivendell’s actual production model. The drawing 
suggests the design is an amalgam of different RDs, high end and low end, 
part homage, part “borrowing.” So curious how unified it will look in 
actuality. But ultimately what matters most is that it will even come into 
existence, being so contrary to the market tide… and how it functions on a 
bike in the real world. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Laing, I love the look of those mechs. The Le Tour, the Rally, and the new 
> Record. With the drillium it does seem they're harkening back to the cages 
> of the Shimano Crane. It almost looks like your picture is from their 
> research files! 
>
> Bill, I think you're right, we'd moan if we missed out. I think I'll get 
> one just to have one and to support such an insane project for a company of 
> Riv's size to undertake and, hopefully, see through to the end. 
>
> Were those Paul derailers any good? They look cool but I've never read any 
> accounts of how they worked (or didn't). 
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:40:11 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while the 
>> part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available anymore, 
>> finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)
>>
>> It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what 
>> $350?  They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when 
>> they went away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces 
>> their RD!"  
>>
>> Anyway, I'm almost as into Rapid Rise as Grant is, so I bought a bunch of 
>> XT M751 when they were being closed out, so I have a lifetime supply.  That 
>> said, a bike company in 2022 developing their own rear derailer is kind of 
>> an awesome achievement, and I'm proud of Grant and the rest of those who 
>> worked on it.  I'd probably buy one even as an artifact of audacity.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>>
>>> Probably not, my vintage SunTour stuff is going strong on my existing 
>>> fleet, and future bike purchases will almost certainly have contemporary 
>>> drivetrains.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA 
>>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2022, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
>>>
>>> I love the Campagnolo inspired textured surface and the Shimano Crane 
>>> GS (Schwinn Le Tour GT300) inspired drillium pulley cage. I will buy 
>>> one.[image: 
>>> Derailleurs (3)s.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:41:55 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In case anyone missed it, Grant posted some updates 
>>>> <https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/om-1-rear-derailer-update?mc_cid=657279a7fe_eid=592b20cfa2>
>>>>  
>>>> on their new derailer.
>>>>
>>>> Looks like they found another place to have them fabricated (no more 
>>>> $350 samples for them) and that retail cost (for us!) will be $175. That's 
>>>> about $125 more than I've ever paid for a rear derailer. What do you all 
>>>> think? Would you spend the $175 for one of these when you can get a 
>>>> vintage 
>>>> Shimano rapid rise on ebay for way less? 
>>>>
>>>> Image below is latest design. I think they mentioned on instagram that 
>>>> the red parts will *not* *be red.* Thank goodness. Give me silver with 
>>>> black pulley wheels. If you thought that Shimano 600EX arabesque 
>>>> flourishes 
>>>> were too groovy, well, check out the peace sign detail in that pulley 
>>>> cage. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: download.png]
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 5:34:42 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Really hard to make ends meet with a 20% markup. With a 10% or 20% 
>>>>> markup, you're more likely to be selling groceries than bikes.
>>>>>
>&

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

Piaw, the installation in question was the fenders, not the Racer brakes, 
which are not too arduous to install. The damaged brake was a casualty of 
the mechanic ostensibly fixing a poor fender installation. And yes, 
installing fenders had seemed challenging and overly time consuming for me 
— that’s why I paid someone to do it on the Wilbury. 

But since that ordeal, I forced myself to actually install a new set of 
fenders on my Hunq to accommodate fatter tires. I’m happy to say that I now 
feel totally comfortable doing it (though they are still fussy and a pain 
to install, however easy Mark makes it look in the video. I must have 
watched it 10 times!).

Ryan, I have to give credit where it is due, and the shop owner, who works 
in a different city, was apologetic when he learned about what happened. He 
reached out to me and genuinely wanted to make things right. He committed 
to replacing the brakes. The challenge is actually *finding* new Racers, 
and so far none have appeared. (If anyone reading this has polished Racers 
they want to part with, please let me know!)

I told the owner that the mechanic seemed so enthusiastic about working on 
a Rivendell. The owner said, “and therein lies the problem. Sure, everyone 
will be bright eyed and bushy tailed about working on such a bike, but that 
does not mean they are qualified to do everything and anything on them.” I 
appreciated his forthrightness, but it raised the question of why the shop 
would assign the work to someone who wasn’t necessarily qualified to do it 
right. 

Corwin, thanks so much for your note. Your characterization of Mark’s work 
as high art is absolutely apropos. He’s also incredibly accessible and 
generous with his time, help, and advice (as is everyone I have ever 
interacted with at Rivendell).

Best wishes all. 


On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 10:58:36 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Here, here JJ! I agree completely. Having Mark do the build and set up my 
> bikes is one of the main reasons I buy bikes from Rivendell. Mark raises 
> wrenching on bikes to a very high form of art.
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwin
>
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:15:28 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Believe me...I was not best pleased, you may be sure
>>
>> BTW, J J, I hope that you presented that bike shop with a bill for that 
>> rear brake you went to so much effort to find and they reimbursed you 
>> without demur. Those Paul Racers are not cheap. I see on my 2016 invoice 
>> for my mixte custom...assembled by Mark Abele (go with the best ) the 
>> Racers were 288.00. Mark's labor was 220.00 + 50.00 for fender installation 
>> , and in my opinion, worth every penny. I am more than happy to pay  top 
>> dollar for first-class work. On the other hand , the vanishing skewer 
>> probably speaks to not properly overseeing a junior mechanic's work , if 
>> I'm being charitable. I do know the shop's owner and he's a good guy who 
>> does a lot for cycling in the city, and I am reasonably sure that if I had 
>> been able to source a new rear skewer and showed him a receipt, he would 
>> have probably given me credit or cash, which would have been fine. Anyone 
>> can make a mistake; it's what the maker of the mistake does to remedy it 
>> that's important
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:54:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>>> That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 
>>>
>>> A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
>>> picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
>>> nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
>>> the axle without clamping it down.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>>>>
>>>> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
>>>> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
>>>> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
>>>> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
>>>> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
>>>> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
>>>> skewer. 
>>>>
>>>> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended 
>>>>> over the entire shop because everyone was shocked by w

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 

A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
the axle without clamping it down.

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>
> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
> skewer. 
>
> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
>> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
>> was like, wtf?!? 
>>
>> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
>> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
>> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
>> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
>> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
>> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
>> Component resuming Racer production.
>>
>> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
>> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
>> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
>> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
>> those brakes.
>>
>> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
>> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
>> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>>
>> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
>> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
>> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
>> meant waiting a while.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>>>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>>>>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
>>>>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>>>>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>>>>>
>>>>>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. 
>>>>> For me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> the attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to 
>>>>> bend the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge 
>>>>> and arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, 
>>>>> and despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't 
>>>>> have 
>>>>> been as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they 
>>>>> evidently 
>>>>> will be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened 
>>>>> regardless. 
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone can make mist

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

Thanks for your note, Andy. I agree 100 percent. 

My partner *did* *intervene* before the damage occurred, asking the 
mechanic to put the bike on a stand and take the wheel off. He ignored her.

“Honest mistake”. Ugh. 

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 7:54:59 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> More saintly than I would have been if standing there. 
>
> "Honest mistake" is the rationalization of a good samaritan not someone 
> with access to tools holding themself out as a mechanic. What was described 
> was a task in need of being done right by someone who didn't do so in the 
> first place. Instead of acknowledging their corner-cutting, inadequate 
> effort or skill by carefully doing it right the second time, they applied 
> the same slapdash degree of "wrenching". I would have called them out and 
> stopped things when pliers and a big screwdriver appeared. 
>
> What do people like that intend to do with any time they save by doing 
> work so poorly? 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 3:21:29 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
>> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
>> was like, wtf?!? 
>>
>> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
>> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
>> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
>> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
>> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
>> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
>> Component resuming Racer production.
>>
>> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
>> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
>> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
>> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
>> those brakes.
>>
>> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
>> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
>> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>>
>> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
>> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
>> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
>> meant waiting a while.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>>>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>>>>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
>>>>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>>>>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>>>>>
>>>>>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. 
>>>>> For me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> the attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to 
>>>>> bend the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge 
>>>>> and arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, 
>>>>> and despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't 
>>>>> have 
>>>>> been as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they 
>>>>> evidently 
>>>>> will be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened 
>>>>> regardless. 
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>>>>>

Re: [RBW] help identify a small part and a source for it

[J J]

Thanks Mike and Eric!

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:52 PM UTC-4 eric swain wrote:

> Serrated brake caliper washer. Most shops should have them. Presta valve 
> nuts would work for your application as well.
>
>
> https://www.benscycle.com/tektro-serrated-brake-washer--6-1x13-3-sb-silver-caliper-brake-part-tektro-24558-br7205/p?idsku=632011=CjwKCAjwyaWZBhBGEiwACslQo9dCDIEVn6kOCMX9vv3ySQKzgF2rR0IYMRmsnXOH7KsAyqFBGbCQSxoCRhMQAvD_BwE
>
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 8:42:29 PM UTC-7 Robert Tilley wrote:
>
>> Looks like the concave washers that come on most brake pad hardware. The 
>> LBS may have a pile of them. Or buy cheap brake pads just for the washers.
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2022, at 7:35 PM, J J  wrote:
>>
>> [image: washers spacers knurled.JPG]
>>
>>
>> I’ve tried in vain to find these locally. I ask for “funky textured lock 
>> washers/spacers” but folks in local shops look at me funny even when I show 
>> them the attached pic. So my terminology is clearly technically incorrect! 
>> It’s a mystery. Riv used many of them on this Glorius build. I’d very much 
>> appreciate help knowing what they’re called and where I can procure some. 
>> They do their job very well. Thanks!
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3a306bea-814c-4c6f-91b8-22e78d2a9e21n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3a306bea-814c-4c6f-91b8-22e78d2a9e21n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>> [image: washers spacers knurled.JPG]
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thank you Rivendell

[J J]

Doug, I use Silver 2 shifters with 9-speed Rapid Rise RDs. The cable pull 
length/ratio changes when I pull to the smallest cogs. From the largest 
gear to, say, the fifth cog down, the cable pull amount is about the same 
from gear to gear. Going further down the sprocket definitely requires more 
cable pull. 
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 5:43:25 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:

> Hello Doug,
>
> Friction shifting (dt and bar end) has been my only method of changing 
> gears with 7 and 8 speed cogs on my three bikes for so long that it feels 
> natural and intuitive. I guess if I had more variety in my bikes/ 
> drivetrains i.e. 9-11 cogs, index shifting my experience might be different.
>
> Hope that helps.
> - Rich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 22, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> Thank you Rich. The description of shifting on Rivendell's website makes 
> sense to me and I don't think I need a 9 speed cassette as I don't shift 
> often to maintain a certain cadence. The one thing I'm still getting used 
> to with friction shifting is that not every gear change requires as equal 
> amount if shifter lever movement so that I imagine having only 7 gears in 
> the rear will help facilitate muscle memory for the movement in various 
> gears. Do you notice this as well when friction shifting?
>
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:34:55 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Hi Doug! 
>>
>> As a fellow Dylan fan I offer my congratulations. I just installed a Jim 
>> 7 speed cassette; I'm very pleased. I hope your setup works as well too.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:25:29 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed! That was a nice little surprise. I honestly thought maybe I 
>>> hadn’t quite followed the contest directions to a “t”.
>>>
>>> I purchased some Nitto stuff; some bar plugs, and a lamp holder for my 
>>> Edelux light I purchased from a fellow forum member.
>>>
>>> On Sep 21, 2022, at 8:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> I got one, too, and one for the "name the author" contest. I thought 
>>> I'd answered wrong or they'd forgotten about the whole idea! Now what am I 
>>> gonna buy... 樂
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 5:09:28 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Rivendell recently posed a question on Instagram with a $20 reward for 
 those who answered correctly. As a Bob Dylan fan I was able to answer 
 correctly and just received my reward! I ordered a mini-triangle, two 
 rolls 
 of Newbaum tape and a 7 speed Jim cassette (11-36) to try on my Clem. I 
 will be going from 2x9 to 2x7. I am hoping the friction shifting will be 
 even better along with better chain lines. We shall see.


 Doug (Blowin' In the Wind)
 Athens, Ga

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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
was like, wtf?!? 

The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
Component resuming Racer production.

It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
those brakes.

Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
bike nerds and to nerds in the making.

Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if I 
had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do any 
frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it meant 
waiting a while.

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like that 
> and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
>>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were in 
>>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>>>
>>>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For 
>>> me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
>>> attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
>>> the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
>>> arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
>>> despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have been 
>>> as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
>>> be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
>>>> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
>>>> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
>>>> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
>>>> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
>>>> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
>>>> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
>>>> can't 
>>>> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
>>>> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
>>>> brake pads too early than I am.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
>>>>> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
>>>>> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do 
>>>>> work 
>>>>> myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
>>>>> work — or worse. 
>>>>>
>>>>> The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on 
>>>>> which we had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find 
>>>>> polished version). I told the shop that R

[RBW] Re: help identify a small part and a source for it

[J J]

Bill, that’s a super helpful treatise not just about the lock washer in 
question, but about resourcefulness as well. Thank you for taking the time. 

I like the stacked look of these washers on the unpainted frame, as they 
suit the aesthetic, though brass washers or spacers would be lovely as 
well. 

Thanks again!

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 4:54:49 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> The OP asked for a particular small part being used as a stackable spacer 
> for a fender installation.  
>
> -Jay speculated that they are presta nuts.  The parts in the picture are 
> not presta nuts, but people absolutely use presta nuts as stackable spacers
> -brokebike suggested that their name is "wedge lock washers".  That's 
> close but not exactly right.  Wedge lock washers are typically a matched 
> pair of washers that have a ridged interlocking interface between them.  
> The more generically stackable similar form of lock washer are sometimes 
> called "nord lock"
> -Joe correctly identified the objects in the photo as caliper brake 
> washers, and correctly identified that bike mechanics use them as spacers 
> NOT because they buy them for that purpose, but because they are suitable 
> for the purpose and accumulate on their own when you have dozens or 
> hundreds of new builds flowing through your shop
> -Robert suggested that the objects in the photo resemble brake pad conical 
> washer hardware.  Like presta nuts and caliper brake washers, that hardware 
> also accumulates at the shop and people absolutely use them as spacers.  
>
> The general approach to solving this kind of problem is using the objects 
> that are laying around.  That's what the mechanic did for that fender 
> installation in the photo, and that is why a home mechanic would use presta 
> nuts or brake pad hardware.  
>
> So, if the OP is looking to purchase a handful of stackable objects that 
> they can use to stack up a spacer of "any length", then I think the best 
> bet would be to invest in flat washers or spacers.  If the OP specifically 
> wants just those specific face-knurled stackable lock washers, then I'd 
> recommend calling a mechanic that builds a lot of bikes with Tektro caliper 
> brakes and offer to buy 10 of them.  If you'd rather buy Tektro Brake 
> Washers online, type "tektro brake washer" into the googler and find them 
> for $1.73 apiece from Bens Cycle:  Tektro Serrated Brake Washer #6.1x13.3 
> SB Silver | (benscycle.com) 
> <https://www.benscycle.com/tektro-serrated-brake-washer--6-1x13-3-sb-silver-caliper-brake-part-tektro-24558-br7205/p?idsku=632011=77ed67105d56161ff10a043a8d32595f_source=bing_medium=cpc_campaign=**LP%20Shop%20-%20Brake%20Parts_term=4581183926039940_content=6941_632011%20%7C%20Tektro%20Serrated%20Brake%20Washer%20%236.1x13.3%20SB%20Silver%20BR7205%20%7C%20%241.58>
>
> For substitutes that you can buy in any quantity, I'd look to 
> McMaster-Carr.  For example, brass flat washers are 1mm thick.  You can buy 
> a bag of 100 in the M5 size for $8.  Stack them all you like.  They are 
> attractive and corrosion resistant.  If you want M6 (which is what those 
> brake washers are), then those are more like 1.5mm thick and you can buy a 
> bag of 50 for $8.57.  Aluminum flat washers are a lot more expensive.  $11 
> for a bag of 10.  Stainless steel is cheaper.  $6.58 for a bag of 100 M6 
> stainless steel washers.  
>
> If you need a spacer and know exactly how long it needs to be, those can 
> be purchased from McMaster-Carr also.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> [image: washers spacers knurled.JPG]
>>
>> I’ve tried in vain to find these locally. I ask for “funky textured lock 
>> washers/spacers” but folks in local shops look at me funny even when I show 
>> them the attached pic. So my terminology is clearly technically incorrect! 
>> It’s a mystery. Riv used many of them on this Glorius build. I’d very much 
>> appreciate help knowing what they’re called and where I can procure some. 
>> They do their job very well. Thanks!
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] help identify a small part and a source for it

[J J]

Thanks for the quick responses! Jay, they are similar to but larger than 
the presta valve screws, and have different texture. Brian, thanks for the 
name suggestion. Joe, you’re right — a set of the Tektro 559s I sold 
recently had some of these washers, and I made sure to send them along with 
the brakes. Robert, thanks for the suggestion on how I might find some. 

I appreciate all the help!

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 11:42:29 PM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:

> Looks like the concave washers that come on most brake pad hardware. The 
> LBS may have a pile of them. Or buy cheap brake pads just for the washers.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 20, 2022, at 7:35 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> [image: washers spacers knurled.JPG]
>
>
> I’ve tried in vain to find these locally. I ask for “funky textured lock 
> washers/spacers” but folks in local shops look at me funny even when I show 
> them the attached pic. So my terminology is clearly technically incorrect! 
> It’s a mystery. Riv used many of them on this Glorius build. I’d very much 
> appreciate help knowing what they’re called and where I can procure some. 
> They do their job very well. Thanks!
>
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3a306bea-814c-4c6f-91b8-22e78d2a9e21n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3a306bea-814c-4c6f-91b8-22e78d2a9e21n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
> [image: washers spacers knurled.JPG]
>
>

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[RBW] Re: It's my custom

[J J]

Such a sweet ride. In the pantheon of so many great and beautiful 
Rivendells, this one still stands out as something special. 

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 6:28:25 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

> Love it and all your iterations towards perfection.
>
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:56:23 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Made a couple changes, felt like showing it. 
>>
>> Swapped the DirtDrop stem for an 11cm FacePlater, was able to move the 
>> Billies a smidge forward, moved the Brooks a bit forward too (not as much), 
>> I feel more "in the middle" of the bike now. I should have taken the bar 
>> bag off so you can see the stem. 
>>
>> Swapped the RBW51 rack for a Nitto Big Rack, it looks kinda way back 
>> there for a bag support but I'm going to get at least one shopper pannier 
>> for... shopping. 
>>
>> Love this bike, don't know how someone could show up on the Riv Instagram 
>> and tell me I ride a "girl's bike" but that's what happened yesterday. Hey 
>> bro, check out my girl's bike! ‍♂️
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do work 
myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
work — or worse. 

The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on which we 
had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find polished 
version). I told the shop that Rivendell has a detailed video showing 
fender installation and could they please check it out and follow Mark’s 
method. 

Long story as short as I can make it: the eager, wide-eyed mechanic who 
wanted to work on the bike because he “loves Rivendells”  did it his way, 
anyway. The fender hanger tab that bolts onto the brake hole on the fork 
was unevenly bent and rubbing against the headset as the handlebar moved 
back and forth. We took it back to have them fix it, and in full view of 
several employees, including the shop manager, the mechanic tried to bend 
the tab back using the Racer as leverage for his pliers. He did this 
despite my partner telling him “shouldn’t you take it off before you do 
that?” He totally ignored her, and in a second he put a gash into the the 
brake bridge. Now we’re not precious about nicks and scratches. But this 
was a deep gash on a brand new set of rare Racers, and it was horrible. It’s 
painful even recalling it. I regret that I didn’t intervene before he 
ruined it (though again, he ignored my partner, which could be another 
story for another thread about the contempt and condescension with which 
many LBS mechanics and sales people treat women). 

I think we have mythologized local bike shops. Sure, I’ve had some great 
experiences. But the proof of the pudding is always in the tasting, and 
recent experiences left me with extreme, long lasting  bitterness. Local 
shops have forgotten to reattach brake cables after a service, left the 
quick release skewers very loose, stripped threads, made adjustments worse, 
I could go on and on — basic stuff that should not happen and that have 
safety implications. It’s to the point that the only “local” shop I trust 
anymore is about 50 miles away, even though I have at least 5 shops within 
walking distance, a few blocks from where I live. I don’t want shops to use 
my bikes for training mechanics. It’s too unreliable. On top of that, the 
local shops’ labor rates are not less than Rivendell’s rates, and in my 
area, they are often *more*, adding insult to injury. For me it’s a 
no-brainer to pay Rivendell to do the work, pay extra for repacking, and so 
on. I don’t mean to rag on LBSs, though. I’m just sharing my actual 
experiences and thoughts. 

I suppose one good outcome of these crappy experiences is that it’s 
compelled me to invest in tools and put in time to learn skills. This forum 
has been a great educator, too. So thanks, forum!! I’m sorry this veered a 
lot from the original post topic. 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:27:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't even know where my LBS is, I work on my own bikes. I assume Riv is 
> still prepping their frames for an extra fee, I would pay it. 
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:22:57 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 8:15 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> To be clear cuz I'm the OP and this is going to reflect on me, I'm not 
>>> sad about anything. My concern is we're going to end up with unprepped 
>>> frames on the used market that unsuspecting buyers won't know need to be 
>>> prepped. It wasn't the main point of my post, which is that there's a new 
>>> Roadini frame out there people can buy. 
>>>
>>> I'm surprised at the number of people here who can't trust their LBS to 
>> prep a frame. Is it because the modern CF/AL frames don't need prepping? I 
>> certainly don't have a frame alignment table or a derailleur hanger 
>> straightener, much less the tool required to prep a headtube prior to 
>> installing headset and fork. It's been years since I carried a headset 
>> wrench while touring as well. But I recently had trouble with one of my 
>> kids' bikes not indexing correctly no matter what I did. Took it to the LBS 
>> and they diagnosed it as a bent hanger. They fixed it and then decided not 
>> to charge me since their credit card machine was broken. 
>>
>

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