[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I only ride big, wide platforms with pins. I like the comfort and freedom of riding in whatever shoes I want. Makes it easier to just jump on the bike and go without having to think too much about wearing a special shoe or article of clothing. None of the riding I do would benefit from foot retention. That said, there are certain shoes I will wear for certain types of riding: around town or casual riding = vans or Blundstone boots. Rougher terrain or trail riding: Five Ten Freeriders. All-day rides: something with a stiffer shank, like a lightweight hiking shoe. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fb30d33f-073c-4db5-8391-46c7a1a88db7n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I could never commit to full clips, and don't have a very "roadie" set-up on my bike, so for the last 10+ years I've done a combo of the MKS compact pedals and their half clips. I find it helpful when biking in heels, boots, flats, whatever, since I only ride in athletic shoes when I'm going a longer distance. [image: MKS Compact Road Bike Pedals 2colors][image: MKS Steel Deep Half Toe Clips – The Bikesmiths] On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 2:38:43 AM UTC-5 Philip Williamson wrote: > I ride flats with pins. > Fixed, technical singletrack, road, commuting. > > I started with clips and plastic straps on mountain bike bear trap pedals, > then rode SPDs and then Eggbeaters. When my kid was little, I made > platforms for the eggbeaters by screwing cleats to platforms I cut out of > old skateboard decks so I could jump on the bike whenever my kid wanted to > go out for a ride. After riding on these platforms in all kinds of > conditions, like fixed gear singletrack, I realized I just needed platform > pedals, and I could retire the eggbeaters and the couture clip-in > platforms. > > I try to cycle my shoes (mostly Chrome Kursks) from nice, to everyday, to > bike. > > Philip > Sonoma County, Cal. > > > > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 5:44:43 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's >> out-of-context judgment. >> >> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how >> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use >> clipless systems -- and what kind. >> >> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with >> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on >> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about >> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C >> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd >> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips >> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty >> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson >> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and >> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I >> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb >> mechanism). >> >> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention >> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find >> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my >> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + >> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found >> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than >> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. >> >> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard >> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of >> my riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and >> loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. >> >> But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with >> them. >> >> Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. >> >> Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. >> >> -- >> >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> --- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >> services >> >> >> --- >> >> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >> >> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >> >> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4c1b269b-1cd5-4b6a-a560-8c965159f60en%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I ride flats with pins. Fixed, technical singletrack, road, commuting. I started with clips and plastic straps on mountain bike bear trap pedals, then rode SPDs and then Eggbeaters. When my kid was little, I made platforms for the eggbeaters by screwing cleats to platforms I cut out of old skateboard decks so I could jump on the bike whenever my kid wanted to go out for a ride. After riding on these platforms in all kinds of conditions, like fixed gear singletrack, I realized I just needed platform pedals, and I could retire the eggbeaters and the couture clip-in platforms. I try to cycle my shoes (mostly Chrome Kursks) from nice, to everyday, to bike. Philip Sonoma County, Cal. On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 5:44:43 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/595ba0d9-301b-4cdb-8bb7-ccbcb8156014n%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 5:56 PM Patrick Moore wrote: > On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:21 PM Piaw Na wrote: > >> ... After a while [the kids] got strong enough that a tow rope hitched to >> my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to SPDs and it >> felt so good. >> > > Now, a picture of this would be delightful to see, tho' I expect that > logistics mean that there are none. > Here's a picture, not of me, but of a friend towing his kid with the same tow rope: https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/FMMMR4CqT1m5_gn5qV8TTQ.h2vUZWd66nwCvh8me5tNjf -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAPh0EZ66LXYpWeeuAD%2BjAGCiaJvwyg44zwdbfJwAPHeJKjfnrQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:21 PM Piaw Na wrote: > ... After a while [the kids] got strong enough that a tow rope hitched to > my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to SPDs and it > felt so good. > Now, a picture of this would be delightful to see, tho' I expect that logistics mean that there are none. > One thing about SPD is that I never got technically good enough at bunny > hopping that I could do it without SPDs, but with SPDs I can do it all day > any time, which is probably a silly reason to like SPDs. > I saved my life once long ago, using SPDs, when I was cranking hard along a dirt path at ~20 + mph* and suddenly came up to a wheel-size hole or ditch. Fortunately I was able to spontaneously bunny hop it at speed, saving both myself and my bike from a catastrophic endo. * I was racing, or trying to race a youth on a small dirt motorcycle some yards to my West. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtGk-Qc0AO5eUvRL5T2Ta1dfYcmw4BaiBTRs7NoDQ0U_Q%40mail.gmail.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
One of the main reasons I have ridden SPD on my bikes for distance riding is for the foot support SPD shoes have offered and the fact I am not chewing up or wearing out all my shoes and runners. For commuting, I tend to wear light weight hiking boots and those work great with flat pedals. I rarely ever wear normal shoes or runners when cycling at all now. IanA On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 1:30:21 PM UTC-8 RichS wrote: > If you have been riding long enough you have likely tried the myriad types > of retention and non-retention systems (including shoes). Keds and flats on > my Stingray, Avocet (I think) shoes with clips and straps on my early 80s > Trek, clip-ins that my 2000s cycling friends told me I "had to have". > Ultimately being clipped or strapped in was a no go due to the frequncy of > being in and out of the pedal on my mostly urban rides. I've been happily > pedaling free for years using MKS Grip Kings, Adidas 5/10s and William > Lennon leather shoes. > > Best, > Rich in ATL > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 9:06:06 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote: > >> My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then >> clipless (SPD). >> >> Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee >> (not bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I >> began riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and >> straps to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float >> off the pedal. In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go >> outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My >> right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg >> strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider >> after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I >> even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless. >> >> I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road strapped in >> tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off >> foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles >> would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how >> important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was. >> >> I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi >> Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history >> and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, >> Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps >> the ones mentioned by) Patrick. >> >> The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when >> clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I >> strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They >> fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of >> movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. >> >> Andy Cheatham >> Pittsburgh >> >> >> On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: >> >>> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's >>> out-of-context judgment. >>> >>> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how >>> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use >>> clipless systems -- and what kind. >>> >>> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with >>> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on >>> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about >>> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C >>> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd >>> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips >>> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty >>> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson >>> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and >>> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I >>> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb >>> mechanism). >>> >>> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention >>> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find >>> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my >>> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + >>> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found >>> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than >>> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. >>> >>> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard >>> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
If you have been riding long enough you have likely tried the myriad types of retention and non-retention systems (including shoes). Keds and flats on my Stingray, Avocet (I think) shoes with clips and straps on my early 80s Trek, clip-ins that my 2000s cycling friends told me I "had to have". Ultimately being clipped or strapped in was a no go due to the frequncy of being in and out of the pedal on my mostly urban rides. I've been happily pedaling free for years using MKS Grip Kings, Adidas 5/10s and William Lennon leather shoes. Best, Rich in ATL On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 9:06:06 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote: > My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then > clipless (SPD). > > Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee > (not bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I > began riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and > straps to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float > off the pedal. In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go > outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My > right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg > strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider > after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I > even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless. > > I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road strapped in > tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off > foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles > would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how > important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was. > > I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi > Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history > and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, > Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps > the ones mentioned by) Patrick. > > The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when > clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I > strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They > fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of > movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. > > Andy Cheatham > Pittsburgh > > > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's >> out-of-context judgment. >> >> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how >> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use >> clipless systems -- and what kind. >> >> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with >> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on >> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about >> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C >> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd >> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips >> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty >> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson >> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and >> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I >> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb >> mechanism). >> >> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention >> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find >> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my >> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + >> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found >> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than >> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. >> >> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard >> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of >> my riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and >> loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. >> >> But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with >> them. >> >> Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. >> >> Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. >> >> -- >> >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >>
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I've been riding SPDs since the mid 1990s when they finally became affordable. On my tandem/triplet we had one crash caused my the too long for my kid toe strap getting caught in the timing ring. After that I got SPD click'r pedals for my kids and they've been riding clipless SPDs since. (The hard part was getting SPD shoes small enough for them --- I ended up buying the first few pairs used from other cycling families) I went to flat pedals for about a year on the MTB --- this was a period when I had to get off my bike every so often, run down to the kids and push them up the mountain. After a while they got strong enough that a tow rope hitched to my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to SPDs and it felt so good. One thing about SPD is that I never got technically good enough at bunny hopping that I could do it without SPDs, but with SPDs I can do it all day any time, which is probably a silly reason to like SPDs. And no, my kids and I aren't good enough to bunny hop the tandem. On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 6:06:06 AM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote: > My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then > clipless (SPD). > > Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee > (not bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I > began riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and > straps to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float > off the pedal. In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go > outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My > right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg > strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider > after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I > even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless. > > I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road strapped in > tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off > foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles > would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how > important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was. > > I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi > Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history > and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, > Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps > the ones mentioned by) Patrick. > > The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when > clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I > strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They > fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of > movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. > > Andy Cheatham > Pittsburgh > > > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's >> out-of-context judgment. >> >> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how >> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use >> clipless systems -- and what kind. >> >> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with >> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on >> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about >> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C >> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd >> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips >> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty >> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson >> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and >> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I >> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb >> mechanism). >> >> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention >> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find >> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my >> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + >> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found >> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than >> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. >> >> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard >> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of >> my riding is on fixed drivetrains,
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then clipless (SPD). Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee (not bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I began riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and straps to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float off the pedal. In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless. I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road strapped in tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was. I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps the ones mentioned by) Patrick. The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I used clipess for years and thought they were the greatest thing ever until one broke. I immediately switched back to the old platforms with toeclips "temporarily." All I noticed when I changed back was that the shoes were more comfortable. I don't think the clipless did anything for me. I'm sure they make a difference for racers and people who live on their power meter stats and count grams for a hobby, but I've switched to spiky platforms on four of my bikes and two have MKS Urban Platforms with strapless toeclips. They work great (I never tightened the straps anyway) and I can actually wear comfortable shoes, that I can walk in also! Marc On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/50dc16ab-8cdf-4cdd-b835-0a05bf6ca06dn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I am currently using both clip in and flat pedals. I still do roadie group rides with my fellow MAMILs on my Serotta. I use Speedplay pedals for that. I also have a modern mountain bike with SPDs . On my Sam Hillborne I ride flat pedals. If I had my druthers I'd ride flat pedals most of the time. I love riding in sandals because of the chill vibe that it promotes. When I'm on my Hillborne I'm mostly riding alone or on bike paths with friends/family. At the start of last season I developed pain in one of my knees. I later determined that it was due to my cleat placement on my cycling shoe. I had purchased new cleats during the winter months and carelessly mounted them on my shoes without taking note of the exact placement of the previous cleats. After developing the knee pain I ended up going to my LBS and having the bike fitter take a look at my pedal stroke. Sure enough my cleat needed to be moved inboard on the shoe to solve the problem. All of that to say I wonder if clipping in is worth it when you consider how sensitive my knees are to precise cleat placement. At this point I'm still using both. On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote: > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote: > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > > I started riding bikes in 1968. In 1978 I got my first pair of Detto > Pietro shoes. I've been through cleats, Avocets, SPD, MKS Mapstage, Time > ATAC, Egg Beater, and now I almost exclusively ride in sneakers (Lems) on > flat pedals (mostly Riv's Clem pedals). The most efficient "directly > attached to the rear wheel" system I ever felt was a pair of Delrin cleats > that Pino Morroni machined for Grant. They snapped perfectly into Campy NR > pedals, and you didn't even need a strap unless you really pulled straight > up on them. All the systems that "float" were absolutely terrible for me. > My heels would rotate to the float limits, creating a large amount of > rotational strain on my knees. I found Egg Beaters with zero float cleats > to be the best for my needs, and I still have them on my Riv Road, which is > set up for fast group riding. Also, like Wesley, my wife and I find > cleated pedals to be very important on the tandem - no more feet flying off > the pedals at inopportune moments. I liked having cleated pedals and shoes > for the short downtown part of my commute, where I would often need to > accelerate hard to keep up with the traffic flow. Since I retired I > haven't had a single time when I've been clipless (meaning no binding > system at all!) that I have wished for something holding my feet to the > pedals. On the contrary, I am finding that my feet, ankles, knees, and hips > are much, much happier, especially on long rides. I love being able to > shift my feet forward and back, sometimes on the ball, sometimes the arch, > depending on the terrain and the level of effort. > > My father-in-law started doing some more recreational biking in his > retirement. The shop that sold him a new bike insisted he needed toe clips > and straps. At an intersection with some sand on the pavement (April in > Wisconsin!) he used his front brake and went down. In trying to pull his > foot from the pedal he very badly tore up the ligaments in his knee. > Needless to say, when he got back on the bike the next year, I had tossed > the clips and straps. > > Ted Durant > Milwaukee WI USA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2acc87ab-df20-477d-bd66-446f08d4312an%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
Seems like a lot of replies in this discussion center around where one does most of his/her riding. If it's mostly start/stop urban streets, then yes platform pedals would be safer. On lightly traveled country roads and bike paths, though, clipless would be workable and probably desirable, leg joints dependent (unless there are lots of street crossings). My history goes back to the mid-to-late 60's/early 70's during the so-called "bike boom" when the go-to book for everyone was Sloane's "The Complete Book of Bicycling." Sloane heavily endorsed pedal retention - toe clips, straps, and shoe cleats back then (because clipless pedals hadn't been invented yet) - for serious cycling. I got hooked on it and moved forward with that philosophy in mind. Younger riders, especially Riv-influenced ones, have adopted a different pedaling experience. One minor bump in the road in recent decades was this "fixie" movement adopted mostly by Millennials where a large number of those types would have been in big trouble using pedal retention systems. I've noticed that that fad came and went rather quickly. On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-6 Ted Durant wrote: > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote: > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > > I started riding bikes in 1968. In 1978 I got my first pair of Detto > Pietro shoes. I've been through cleats, Avocets, SPD, MKS Mapstage, Time > ATAC, Egg Beater, and now I almost exclusively ride in sneakers (Lems) on > flat pedals (mostly Riv's Clem pedals). The most efficient "directly > attached to the rear wheel" system I ever felt was a pair of Delrin cleats > that Pino Morroni machined for Grant. They snapped perfectly into Campy NR > pedals, and you didn't even need a strap unless you really pulled straight > up on them. All the systems that "float" were absolutely terrible for me. > My heels would rotate to the float limits, creating a large amount of > rotational strain on my knees. I found Egg Beaters with zero float cleats > to be the best for my needs, and I still have them on my Riv Road, which is > set up for fast group riding. Also, like Wesley, my wife and I find > cleated pedals to be very important on the tandem - no more feet flying off > the pedals at inopportune moments. I liked having cleated pedals and shoes > for the short downtown part of my commute, where I would often need to > accelerate hard to keep up with the traffic flow. Since I retired I > haven't had a single time when I've been clipless (meaning no binding > system at all!) that I have wished for something holding my feet to the > pedals. On the contrary, I am finding that my feet, ankles, knees, and hips > are much, much happier, especially on long rides. I love being able to > shift my feet forward and back, sometimes on the ball, sometimes the arch, > depending on the terrain and the level of effort. > > My father-in-law started doing some more recreational biking in his > retirement. The shop that sold him a new bike insisted he needed toe clips > and straps. At an intersection with some sand on the pavement (April in > Wisconsin!) he used his front brake and went down. In trying to pull his > foot from the pedal he very badly tore up the ligaments in his knee. > Needless to say, when he got back on the bike the next year, I had tossed > the clips and straps. > > Ted Durant > Milwaukee WI USA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/27ad5a12-7737-460c-9272-398a9ee4b70fn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote: But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use clipless systems -- and what kind. I started riding bikes in 1968. In 1978 I got my first pair of Detto Pietro shoes. I've been through cleats, Avocets, SPD, MKS Mapstage, Time ATAC, Egg Beater, and now I almost exclusively ride in sneakers (Lems) on flat pedals (mostly Riv's Clem pedals). The most efficient "directly attached to the rear wheel" system I ever felt was a pair of Delrin cleats that Pino Morroni machined for Grant. They snapped perfectly into Campy NR pedals, and you didn't even need a strap unless you really pulled straight up on them. All the systems that "float" were absolutely terrible for me. My heels would rotate to the float limits, creating a large amount of rotational strain on my knees. I found Egg Beaters with zero float cleats to be the best for my needs, and I still have them on my Riv Road, which is set up for fast group riding. Also, like Wesley, my wife and I find cleated pedals to be very important on the tandem - no more feet flying off the pedals at inopportune moments. I liked having cleated pedals and shoes for the short downtown part of my commute, where I would often need to accelerate hard to keep up with the traffic flow. Since I retired I haven't had a single time when I've been clipless (meaning no binding system at all!) that I have wished for something holding my feet to the pedals. On the contrary, I am finding that my feet, ankles, knees, and hips are much, much happier, especially on long rides. I love being able to shift my feet forward and back, sometimes on the ball, sometimes the arch, depending on the terrain and the level of effort. My father-in-law started doing some more recreational biking in his retirement. The shop that sold him a new bike insisted he needed toe clips and straps. At an intersection with some sand on the pavement (April in Wisconsin!) he used his front brake and went down. In trying to pull his foot from the pedal he very badly tore up the ligaments in his knee. Needless to say, when he got back on the bike the next year, I had tossed the clips and straps. Ted Durant Milwaukee WI USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/29f3d2b1-5fd6-45e5-8f82-758bec1a44fan%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
My journey is very simple to JS’s but without the mishaps. ‘70’s toe clips & straps (PX10) all the way to clipless. Rode clipless (Speedplay road, mostly eggbeater’s MTB) for years / decades without incident. Decided to give large platforms a try maybe 10 years ago - do not remember why - and have never looked back. I was riding MTB primarily & got bored I think with clipless. I found there to be a learning curve with platforms on rowdy trails & enjoyed the challenge. I cannot imagine ever clipping in again.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 25, 2023, at 10:30 AM, J S wrote:I rode with clips and straps for most of my riding years (started I believe with them in the mid ‘70’s on my first 10 speed. I tried clipless in the ‘90’s (frogs) but took a bad spill when I was unable to disengage hurting my leg, and back to clips and straps. After my second back surgery and riding again I took all the clips and straps off of my bikes adding platform pedals. It was a matter of safety so I could put a leg out if needed. I never missed the clips and straps. On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's out-of-context judgment.But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use clipless systems -- and what kind.I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb mechanism). A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect.So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain.But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with them.Best wishes to all for the Christmas season.Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM.-- Patrick MooreAlburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum---Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services---When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6581e48c-6b12-48c3-be0b-5f58af4cea9an%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/EB407AD4-2A09-4045-BCE0-073EAD63439D%40gmail.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
White Industries urban pedals (or MKS equivalents) and half-clips on my bikes, including the tandem. Tried Look pedals for a year and, while I like the way they felt, I never got comfortable clipping in and clipping out for traffic lights etc. Went to half-clips and never regretted it. I like the retention half-clips give, as well as the ability to quickly put a foot down when needed. And I'm slow enough that whatever efficiency I lose compared with clipless probably doesn't matter. Tom in Alexandria, VA On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 10:30:08 AM UTC-5 jrst...@gmail.com wrote: > I rode with clips and straps for most of my riding years (started I > believe with them in the mid ‘70’s on my first 10 speed. I tried clipless > in the ‘90’s (frogs) but took a bad spill when I was unable to disengage > hurting my leg, and back to clips and straps. After my second back surgery > and riding again I took all the clips and straps off of my bikes adding > platform pedals. It was a matter of safety so I could put a leg out if > needed. I never missed the clips and straps. > > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's >> out-of-context judgment. >> >> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how >> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use >> clipless systems -- and what kind. >> >> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with >> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on >> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about >> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C >> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd >> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips >> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty >> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson >> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and >> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I >> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb >> mechanism). >> >> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention >> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find >> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my >> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + >> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found >> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than >> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. >> >> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard >> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of >> my riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and >> loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. >> >> But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with >> them. >> >> Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. >> >> Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. >> >> -- >> >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> --- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >> services >> >> >> --- >> >> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >> >> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >> >> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0425b17b-8d44-45e1-92b4-ab34b5708042n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I rode with clips and straps for most of my riding years (started I believe with them in the mid ‘70’s on my first 10 speed. I tried clipless in the ‘90’s (frogs) but took a bad spill when I was unable to disengage hurting my leg, and back to clips and straps. After my second back surgery and riding again I took all the clips and straps off of my bikes adding platform pedals. It was a matter of safety so I could put a leg out if needed. I never missed the clips and straps. On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6581e48c-6b12-48c3-be0b-5f58af4cea9an%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I like it all - except toe clips :) After refusing to "clip in" for many years, I finally tried SPDs 5 or 6 years ago and really enjoy the power transfer I perceive (actual or imagined, who cares? I like it) and a sense of connection or connectedness to the pedals, cranks, bike. I've learned that I prefer mountain bike style over road style SPDs for both my road and not-road bikes (using apparently discontinued? wide Lake MX1 lace-ups), as I enjoy walking with ease and a normal posture. I still use platform pedals, specifically MKS Lambdas on commuter and camping bikes, and use a variety of shoes and boots. I've not tried the more recent iterations on this now iconic Lambda pedal, mostly because they just last forever and I cannot yet justify a new purchase. I have enough overlap on too many of my bikes to like toe clips/cages. I recall disliking how much my foot would bend behind the pedal with big efforts, but I admit I never tried a rigid soled shoe with them. Patch in NYC On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2f4bb279-1681-473c-8acc-a7e627ba71cdn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
And here's another rider who wore Beta Bikers back in the day with toe clips and straps, then Look clipless pedals with the big honkin' cleats, then some Speedplays till I wore them out, and finally settled on SPDs. (As an aside, I think the Looks were the best of any of them, but lawdy - those cleats!) Then about two years ago my knees began to bother me on longer climbs. I geared the bike down in increments x 3, winding up with a 19" low, but no improvement. Finally, this past summer in a bit of a pique I decided to try flat pedals. Within just a few weeks I was climbing pain free. I was reluctant to abandon clipping in, I like the way they promote a smooth spin, but it was time for a compromise. I maybe could have played with Q-factor or tried something with a few more degrees of float, but I found that after maybe a half dozen rides my technique adapted to the spiked flats. I sprang for a pair of flat MTB shoes, which I found play very nicely with the pedals. I'd arrived at Grant's point of view - though perhaps for a different reason. So there you have it; when your knees are trying to tell you something - listen to 'em. Steve in Asheville, NC On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 9:21:18 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote: > Patrick - my experiences with pedal retention or the lack thereof pretty > much mirrors yours, almost verbatim. And I agree that through the years of > clips and straps with or without cleats, LOOK type clipless, SPD clipless, > and occasional dip into simple platforms with pins, I've finally settled on > SPD clipless as well. And I like the dual sided pedals with an SPD > retention on one side and plain platform on the other. > *However*, having said all that I would add and agree that I do not like > to ride without pedal retention (with the exception of one of my bikes that > I use for running errands in near proximity - that one has platforms). And > so...blasphemous as it may sound to the ears of those in Walnut Creek, I > think pedal retention improves "correct pedaling." And by that I mean the > ability to spin better in lower gears, the ability to "dig in" to the pedal > at the 7 o'clock position of a down-stroke, the ability to stand all the > way up tough climbs without worry about slipping a foot off a pedal - all > of which, in my experience is much easier on the knees, the IT band, and > other leg muscle groups. > OK, I'm ready to duck for cover now... > > On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's >> out-of-context judgment. >> >> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how >> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use >> clipless systems -- and what kind. >> >> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with >> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on >> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about >> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C >> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd >> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips >> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty >> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson >> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and >> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I >> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb >> mechanism). >> >> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention >> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find >> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my >> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + >> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found >> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than >> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. >> >> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard >> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of >> my riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and >> loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. >> >> But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with >> them. >> >> Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. >> >> Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. >> >> -- >> >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> --- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios,
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
Patrick - my experiences with pedal retention or the lack thereof pretty much mirrors yours, almost verbatim. And I agree that through the years of clips and straps with or without cleats, LOOK type clipless, SPD clipless, and occasional dip into simple platforms with pins, I've finally settled on SPD clipless as well. And I like the dual sided pedals with an SPD retention on one side and plain platform on the other. *However*, having said all that I would add and agree that I do not like to ride without pedal retention (with the exception of one of my bikes that I use for running errands in near proximity - that one has platforms). And so...blasphemous as it may sound to the ears of those in Walnut Creek, I think pedal retention improves "correct pedaling." And by that I mean the ability to spin better in lower gears, the ability to "dig in" to the pedal at the 7 o'clock position of a down-stroke, the ability to stand all the way up tough climbs without worry about slipping a foot off a pedal - all of which, in my experience is much easier on the knees, the IT band, and other leg muscle groups. OK, I'm ready to duck for cover now... On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/386c29db-8eb2-44c4-a20b-3761ce674c5an%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."
I have SPD mountain pedals on my road bike and tandem. They're very important for the tandem, because so much communication happens through the pedals. They're less essential for the road bike. I have flat pedals on my main (commuter) bike, but bought flat cycling shoes for my rides because they have stiffer soles. Chaos (my everyday footwear) are flexible enough at the ball of the foot that the pressure was focused on a smallish area, and my feet would go numb on long rides. On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 5:44:43 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote: > First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's > out-of-context judgment. > > But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how > many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use > clipless systems -- and what kind. > > I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with > thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on > un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about > 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C > with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd > better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips > and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty > quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson > Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and > Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I > mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb > mechanism). > > A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes > but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the > right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my > bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + > almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found > slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than > Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect. > > So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to > give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my > riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and > loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain. > > But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with > them. > > Best wishes to all for the Christmas season. > > Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM. > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > --- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > --- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cd6e7ec8-d849-48f4-9716-305e4bdb56f5n%40googlegroups.com.
