Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
Sun, 21 May 2023 08:49:08 +0200 Lorenzo Sutton : > On 21/05/2023 03:38, Jozseph Hogan wrote: > > This is a good point. > > > > If we know that no note is shorter than a sixteenth note then limiting > > this woudl remove notes and rests with shorter counts. > > > > No DAW has this? > > > > IMHO the thing is that doing this 'a priori' might be slippery, because > in some cases you do want a recording to include (some) little > 'imperfections' which make it sound more 'live' / 'human' I would try it, and then decide. I have never heard a musician start a whole note (for example) 1/32 before the end of a bar and then tie it the rest over into the next one. Being no more a 'musician' than a blacksmith would be a machinist, I still suspect that by forcing the use of let's say at least 1/8ths the digitizingware would push the note into the next bar. I'm convinced of this, the poor quality of digitizingware isn't the abundance of human feel (that you'd risk losing) but the exact opposite. Isn't it possible to nix cross-bar ties already in rosegarden? I vaguely remember something along such lines. I say experiment, I would... :-) Make some optional toggleable rules and try them in turn: If less than 1/16 of a note would be tied across then begin the note in the next bar or end it in the current one as the case may be Same for rests Try larger/smaller values, listen for differences. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
On 21/05/2023 03:38, Jozseph Hogan wrote: This is a good point. If we know that no note is shorter than a sixteenth note then limiting this woudl remove notes and rests with shorter counts. No DAW has this? IMHO the thing is that doing this 'a priori' might be slippery, because in some cases you do want a recording to include (some) little 'imperfections' which make it sound more 'live' / 'human' Recording MIDI (versus audio) does have the advantage of enabling different forms of post-processing and editing including quantization (also deciding how much), correcting wrong notes, transpositions etc. Step recording can be an in-between solution to enter notes with a (musical) keyboard and exact times/durations (you can activate it both in the notation and matrix editor in Rosegarden - makes sure the track is also armed to record!) My two cents. Lorenzo Thanks Joseph On 5/19/23 06:15, krsg...@trixtar.org wrote: Fri, 19 May 2023 00:42:45 -0400 Ted Felix : Quantizing can be used for two main purposes: 1. To make sheet music that looks good. 2. To make your performance sound more "perfect". I have used it a few times to clean up bars in red and rests and that worked fairly well. But (my 2 cents) problems should be attacked at the root cause, and THAT is the digitizing-ware that writes midi tracks (tried many before giving up). I always figured that users turning to such apps should have the opportunity to direct the the software to use no shorter than 1/8 or 1/4 notes for example, it would always be easier to clean up form that end than from this other one as it were. Like I said 'my 2' :-)) ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
This is a good point. If we know that no note is shorter than a sixteenth note then limiting this woudl remove notes and rests with shorter counts. No DAW has this? Thanks Joseph On 5/19/23 06:15, krsg...@trixtar.org wrote: Fri, 19 May 2023 00:42:45 -0400 Ted Felix : Quantizing can be used for two main purposes: 1. To make sheet music that looks good. 2. To make your performance sound more "perfect". I have used it a few times to clean up bars in red and rests and that worked fairly well. But (my 2 cents) problems should be attacked at the root cause, and THAT is the digitizing-ware that writes midi tracks (tried many before giving up). I always figured that users turning to such apps should have the opportunity to direct the the software to use no shorter than 1/8 or 1/4 notes for example, it would always be easier to clean up form that end than from this other one as it were. Like I said 'my 2' :-)) ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
Fri, 19 May 2023 00:42:45 -0400 Ted Felix : >Quantizing can be used for two main purposes: > > 1. To make sheet music that looks good. > 2. To make your performance sound more "perfect". I have used it a few times to clean up bars in red and rests and that worked fairly well. But (my 2 cents) problems should be attacked at the root cause, and THAT is the digitizing-ware that writes midi tracks (tried many before giving up). I always figured that users turning to such apps should have the opportunity to direct the the software to use no shorter than 1/8 or 1/4 notes for example, it would always be easier to clean up form that end than from this other one as it were. Like I said 'my 2' :-)) ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
From having spent a lot of time in the Rosegarden source code, it
always struck me that the intent was to optionally have two separate but
simultaneous versions of each note:
1. A quantized version that fell exactly on a beat or sub-beat ("1",
"2-and", "3-and-uh", "4-eee-and-uh", etc) and lasted a standard amount
of time (quarter, eighth, sixteenth, thirty-second, sixty-fourth note,
etc), and ...
2. A real "performance" version that that had "feel", "swing", rushing
or dragging the beat, etc.
This would allow playback of the composition with the desired
performance without having the notation cluttered with
excessive/confusing 128th-note rests, dotted sixty-fourth notes, etc, or
notes in the Matrix Editor that don't start and end exactly on grid lines.
It can be seen in the code in places like Event::setNotationDuration()
and setNotationAbsoluteTime(), and when running official Rosegarden
(it's a little easier in rosegarden-fork) in the Matrix Editor by
double-clicking a note while in "Select and Edit(F2)" mode. The dialog
that pops up has both "Event Properties: Absolute Time" and "Duration"
and also "Notation Properties: Notation Time", and "Notation Duration".
But this feature doesn't seem to have ever been fully implemented.
I see no reason why quantization during recording vs doing it later in
the Notation or Matrix Editors would be any different (and if it used
the same quantization algorithms it wouldn't be) but, yes, when I
started with Rosegarden I spent a lot of time trying to find a "quantize
while recording" button before realizing that the intended workflow is
to do it afterwards while editing the composition.
Unless the button *is* there somewhere and I just never found it. ;)
On 5/18/23 9:42 PM, Ted Felix wrote:
Quantizing can be used for two main purposes:
1. To make sheet music that looks good.
2. To make your performance sound more "perfect".
Rosegarden is supposed to be able to do either, but I've had trouble
getting it to do #1 without also doing #2.
> One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you
> were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for
> some reason.
That might be related to getting sheet music that looks good without
touching the performance.
Ted.
On 5/18/23 11:11 PM, Joe Hogan wrote:
Thanks Ted,
I will try it next time I am in front of my piano and computer.
I will better understand your comments then.
One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you
were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for
some reason.
When reading over what you wrote, it seems as though you quantisize the
recorded notes.
I'll try this and see how things work for me.
I'll bring my comments back and see what you and others say.
Thanks again for holding a beginners hand. I will get better:)
Joseph
On 2023-05-18 22:52, Ted Felix wrote:
Rosegarden does have quantization. In my experience it works best
from the Matrix (piano roll) editor where you can clearly see the
results.
Select a segment in the main window and press M to launch the matrix
editor. Select some notes (or press Ctrl+A to select all). Now
either press = or click on the "Q" toolbar button. This will launch
the quantize dialog. From here, I would start with the "Grid
quantizer" as that's the only one I've been able to get to work.
Experiment in here and don't be surprised if some of the fields seem
to do nothing. The quantizers are a bit buggy.
Ted.
On 5/18/23 10:38 PM, Jozseph Hogan wrote:
Hello
I am trying to learn how to use a track system for making music.
This is
a new experience for me.
In addition to this, I am tryign to write dow my music so that the
music
is not lost from my brain:)
I was in a forum and some one mentioned about using a feature called
quantisation in order to clean up th enotes a bit.
Is this a feature in Rosegarden?
Thanks
Joseph
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
On 19/05/2023 06:42, Ted Felix wrote: Quantizing can be used for two main purposes: 1. To make sheet music that looks good. 2. To make your performance sound more "perfect". Rosegarden is supposed to be able to do either, but I've had trouble getting it to do #1 without also doing #2. I'd also add 3., hoping not to confuse the OP, but it can also be used to add 'swing' to 'straight' rhythms and other similar funky stuff :-) A while ago I did a quick demo of using the 'swing' parameter in Rosegarden's quantize for someone. Unfortunately I notice I did not show the matrix nor the quantize window long enough maybe - I think I was just trying to demonstrate the 'audio' result and swing capability (warning youtube link follows): https://youtu.be/TYf5A_2QADg Lorenzo : > One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you > were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for > some reason. That might be related to getting sheet music that looks good without touching the performance. Ted. On 5/18/23 11:11 PM, Joe Hogan wrote: Thanks Ted, I will try it next time I am in front of my piano and computer. I will better understand your comments then. One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for some reason. When reading over what you wrote, it seems as though you quantisize the recorded notes. I'll try this and see how things work for me. I'll bring my comments back and see what you and others say. Thanks again for holding a beginners hand. I will get better:) Joseph On 2023-05-18 22:52, Ted Felix wrote: Rosegarden does have quantization. In my experience it works best from the Matrix (piano roll) editor where you can clearly see the results. Select a segment in the main window and press M to launch the matrix editor. Select some notes (or press Ctrl+A to select all). Now either press = or click on the "Q" toolbar button. This will launch the quantize dialog. From here, I would start with the "Grid quantizer" as that's the only one I've been able to get to work. Experiment in here and don't be surprised if some of the fields seem to do nothing. The quantizers are a bit buggy. Ted. On 5/18/23 10:38 PM, Jozseph Hogan wrote: Hello I am trying to learn how to use a track system for making music. This is a new experience for me. In addition to this, I am tryign to write dow my music so that the music is not lost from my brain:) I was in a forum and some one mentioned about using a feature called quantisation in order to clean up th enotes a bit. Is this a feature in Rosegarden? Thanks Joseph ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
Quantizing can be used for two main purposes: 1. To make sheet music that looks good. 2. To make your performance sound more "perfect". Rosegarden is supposed to be able to do either, but I've had trouble getting it to do #1 without also doing #2. > One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you > were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for > some reason. That might be related to getting sheet music that looks good without touching the performance. Ted. On 5/18/23 11:11 PM, Joe Hogan wrote: Thanks Ted, I will try it next time I am in front of my piano and computer. I will better understand your comments then. One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for some reason. When reading over what you wrote, it seems as though you quantisize the recorded notes. I'll try this and see how things work for me. I'll bring my comments back and see what you and others say. Thanks again for holding a beginners hand. I will get better:) Joseph On 2023-05-18 22:52, Ted Felix wrote: Rosegarden does have quantization. In my experience it works best from the Matrix (piano roll) editor where you can clearly see the results. Select a segment in the main window and press M to launch the matrix editor. Select some notes (or press Ctrl+A to select all). Now either press = or click on the "Q" toolbar button. This will launch the quantize dialog. From here, I would start with the "Grid quantizer" as that's the only one I've been able to get to work. Experiment in here and don't be surprised if some of the fields seem to do nothing. The quantizers are a bit buggy. Ted. On 5/18/23 10:38 PM, Jozseph Hogan wrote: Hello I am trying to learn how to use a track system for making music. This is a new experience for me. In addition to this, I am tryign to write dow my music so that the music is not lost from my brain:) I was in a forum and some one mentioned about using a feature called quantisation in order to clean up th enotes a bit. Is this a feature in Rosegarden? Thanks Joseph ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
Thanks Ted, I will try it next time I am in front of my piano and computer. I will better understand your comments then. One comment the person did say was that it was better to use it as you were playing, vs on recorded items, because the results were better for some reason. When reading over what you wrote, it seems as though you quantisize the recorded notes. I'll try this and see how things work for me. I'll bring my comments back and see what you and others say. Thanks again for holding a beginners hand. I will get better:) Joseph On 2023-05-18 22:52, Ted Felix wrote: Rosegarden does have quantization. In my experience it works best from the Matrix (piano roll) editor where you can clearly see the results. Select a segment in the main window and press M to launch the matrix editor. Select some notes (or press Ctrl+A to select all). Now either press = or click on the "Q" toolbar button. This will launch the quantize dialog. From here, I would start with the "Grid quantizer" as that's the only one I've been able to get to work. Experiment in here and don't be surprised if some of the fields seem to do nothing. The quantizers are a bit buggy. Ted. On 5/18/23 10:38 PM, Jozseph Hogan wrote: Hello I am trying to learn how to use a track system for making music. This is a new experience for me. In addition to this, I am tryign to write dow my music so that the music is not lost from my brain:) I was in a forum and some one mentioned about using a feature called quantisation in order to clean up th enotes a bit. Is this a feature in Rosegarden? Thanks Joseph ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
Rosegarden does have quantization. In my experience it works best from the Matrix (piano roll) editor where you can clearly see the results. Select a segment in the main window and press M to launch the matrix editor. Select some notes (or press Ctrl+A to select all). Now either press = or click on the "Q" toolbar button. This will launch the quantize dialog. From here, I would start with the "Grid quantizer" as that's the only one I've been able to get to work. Experiment in here and don't be surprised if some of the fields seem to do nothing. The quantizers are a bit buggy. Ted. On 5/18/23 10:38 PM, Jozseph Hogan wrote: Hello I am trying to learn how to use a track system for making music. This is a new experience for me. In addition to this, I am tryign to write dow my music so that the music is not lost from my brain:) I was in a forum and some one mentioned about using a feature called quantisation in order to clean up th enotes a bit. Is this a feature in Rosegarden? Thanks Joseph ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
[Rosegarden-user] Quantisation?
Hello I am trying to learn how to use a track system for making music. This is a new experience for me. In addition to this, I am tryign to write dow my music so that the music is not lost from my brain:) I was in a forum and some one mentioned about using a feature called quantisation in order to clean up th enotes a bit. Is this a feature in Rosegarden? Thanks Joseph ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
