Re: [sage-devel] Re: source code tarball?

[John Cremona]

Thanks, that's the page I was expecting.

I think it would be a good idea to have that linked more obviously, but  I
am not able to make a PR right now.

I found a tarball on GitHub on the releases page, so made progress, though
as I reported elsewhere I have not yet been able to build sage from it on
one machine.

John



On Wed, 10 Apr 2024, 15:24 julian...@fsfe.org, 
wrote:

> I guess the idea is that further down on this page, you are told to follow
> the instructions in the README here
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/#readme which in turn tells you get the
> "sources" from here https://www.sagemath.org/download-source.html.
>
> I agree that this is not terribly intuitive, however, the wikipedia link
> was introduced in
>
> commit 5cddc06a8118d8fb9211fe8232b1183daba9f01f
> Date:   Tue Mar 29 15:11:07 2011 +0100
>
> So it's been there for quite a while but certainly the surroundings have
> been modified quite a bit since then.
>
> If you want to create a PR to change that link, I am happy to give it
> positive review.
>
> julian
>
> On Wednesday, April 10, 2024 at 11:56:23 AM UTC+3 John Cremona wrote:
>
>> In the first line of
>> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/installation/source.html#sec-installation-from-sources
>> the words "source code" are a link to the wikipedia page for "source code",
>> which is not very helpful.  I was expecting it to be a link to page shoing
>> where to download a tarball.  I sometimes use the tarball to install from
>> source, instead of using a git clone -- I assume that has not been
>> discontinued?
>>
>> John
>>
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[sage-devel] source code tarball?

[John Cremona]

In the first line of
https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/installation/source.html#sec-installation-from-sources
the words "source code" are a link to the wikipedia page for "source code",
which is not very helpful.  I was expecting it to be a link to page shoing
where to download a tarball.  I sometimes use the tarball to install from
source, instead of using a git clone -- I assume that has not been
discontinued?

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Google Season of Docs – org application deadline April 2

[John Cremona]

Should there not be separate projects for documenting (1) building and
installing Sage; (2) using Sage (perhaps with some subject-specific
tutorials, some of which exist but might be worth updating) and (3)
documenting individual Sage functions and methods.

These require different expertise, for example I recently found a badly
misleading docstring in the elliptic curves section, but only someone with
the right expertise would be able to rewrite it properly (yes, I will
create an issue for this soon!)

John

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 at 15:03, David Roe  wrote:

> I think this would be good for Sage.  I think there are several decisions
> to be made:
> * What are our most pressing documentation needs?  Personally, I think we
> have a gap between the reference manual (which is extensive but has no
> flow) and the thematic tutorials (which are written to tell a story but are
> just introductions).  I also poked around online for criticisms of Sage's
> documentation and found complaints about not having separate pages for
> each function  (compared
> to Mathematica's), some suggestions here
> 
> about focusing on aspects of Sage commonly used by beginners (like
> plotting).
> * Who will be involved in applying and supervising the project?  This
> could be a group or a single person.  I can help a bit, but I can't take
> the lead.
> David
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 5:13 PM Matthias Koeppe 
> wrote:
>
>> SageMath could benefit from hiring a technical writer for a project to
>> improve the Sage documentation. Google Season of Docs is a program that
>> supports such projects. Some key facts:
>> - total project budget $5,000 - $15,000 USD (via OpenCollective) -
>> https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/org-payments
>> - starts April 10 (or May 22 the latest), ends November 22, 2024 -
>> https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/timeline
>>
>> Several of our peer projects (NumPy, Matplotlib, SymPy, R, Geomstats) are
>> among the orgs that appear to have made successful use of this program in
>> the past few years, see
>> https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/2023/participants etc.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Help and Advice | Arithmetic of Jacobians in the Split/Real Model is Broken

[John Cremona]

I'm going to forward this to sage-nt as there may be people who read that
but not this.

Meanwhile I would recommend getting something to work correctly before
worrying too much about what is most efficient.


John

On Wed, 6 Mar 2024, 12:52 Giacomo Pope,  wrote:

> *=== Summary*
>
> Arithmetic of divisors for Jacobians of hyperelliptic curves with two
> points at infinity is not currently properly supported for SageMath. Worse,
> there are no checks or error handling and the output of the arithmetic is
> simply wrong.
>
> Minimal example:
>
> sage: R. = PolynomialRing(GF(11))
> sage: f = x^6 + x + 1
> sage: H = HyperellipticCurve(f)
> sage: J = H.jacobian()
> sage: D = J(H.lift_x(1))
> sage: jacobian_order = sum(H.frobenius_polynomial())
> sage: jacobian_order * D
> (x + 10, y + 5) # this should be (1)
>
> I wrote about this as a GitHub issue as well:
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37109 but I am now coming to
> sage-devel as I have *some* progress and want to try and have advice /
> conversation about how we can improve this.
>
> *=== Suggestion*
>
> I have been working on a small proof of concept for arithmetic with
> Sabrina Kunzweiler using sage (
> https://github.com/GiacomoPope/HyperellipticCurves) which has been
> implemented following the balanced strategy of the following paper:
>
> Efficient Hyperelliptic Arithmetic using Balanced Representation for
> Divisors
> Steven D. Galbraith, Michael Harrison, and David J. Mireles Morales
> https://www.math.auckland.ac.nz/~sgal018/ANTS08.pdf
>
> This is similar but distinct to what Magma uses for arithmetic.
> Essentially the arithmetic is the same as Cantor, but to ensure a unique
> representation of the zero degree divisors there is an integer weight n
> together with Mumford polynomials (u, v). By keeping track of this weight
> during composition and reduction arithmetic is complete. We can ensure
> deg(u) <= g by using composition and reduction at infinity.
>
> This implementation works as I expect and I am happy with it. But getting
> it into Sage will be a bigger job. I will try and outline some of the
> issues I see but as with everything the unknown unknowns will be the
> biggest issue.
>
> Minimal working implementation:
> https://github.com/GiacomoPope/HyperellipticCurves
>
> *=== Potential Issues*
>
> *Weighted projective models*
>
> The balanced representation is naturally tied to a weighted projective
> model for the hyperelliptic curve (with weights (1 : 3 : 1)) which is much
> less built out than unweighted polynomial rings in sagemath.
>
> Two recent issues with the weighted polynomial ring:
>
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37155
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/37167
>
> In our implementation I simply build the weighted projective model in a
> normal polynomial ring by computing the correct weights but there could be
> further complications if we really try and implement this "properly" from
> the construction class in sage. This feels like the first big blocker.
>
> A "concrete" example of why we need this is when writing down the two
> points at infinity for the real model. These are not "points" on the
> current curve because the projective model is different and causes a range
> of issues.
>
> *Constructing the right classes*
>
> I think aside from maybe needing additional methods on the hyperelliptic
> curve, once the projective model is right and points on the curve are well
> defined for all cases. I do not have any intuition on whether the balanced
> model will for example have issues with the p-Adic implementation as I have
> no experience in this area.
>
> Using the language of
> https://www.math.auckland.ac.nz/~sgal018/crypto-book/ch10.pdf, the
> "imaginary" or ramified model is what is currently well supported in sage.
> Here we have only one point at infinity. For the split or "real" model,
> this is what is sketched out in my own repo and what I want to address,
> there are two distinct points at infinity. Proper representation of the
> degree zero divisors needs more than (u, v) for unique representation. For
> the inert model, where there are no points at infinity over the base ring,
> I think we should simply reject all arithmetic and force the user to change
> the curve model or work over a field extension. This is what Magma does.
>
> This leads me to the Jacobian. I believe we should have a
> `Jacobian_ramified` and `Jacobian_split` class and `Jacobian_inert`, each
> with their own efficient (or missing) arithmetic and representation (the
> inert case simply has NotImplemented for arithmetic. The hyperelliptic
> curve class should know the number of points at infinity and then select
> this class without user input (so H.jacobian() does whatever the use
> expects).
>
> This will end up being a fairly large refactoring of the current code and
> I believe this will be hazardous work!
>
> *=== Backwards compatibility *
>
> This is where I am most worried. I am familiar with and probably 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Degree of the zero polynomial ring for `LaurentPolynomialRing`

[John Cremona]

Mathematically, the degree of a nonzero polynomial is the negative of  its
valuation at infinity, i.e. the valuation for which 1/x is a uniformiser.

On Fri, 1 Mar 2024, 19:29 Travis Scrimshaw,  wrote:

> Some quick data points:
>
> - The general graded modules (and hence algebras) code raises an error for
> `0` since it is defined there by the direct summand the element belongs to
> (and `0` belongs to all of them.
> - For polynomials, it is very useful to have a single check `f.degree() >
> k` for some `k`. Having error messages or check `f.is_zero()` first makes
> things more complicated.
> - Comparisons of integers to `-infinity` is (relatively) expensive.
> Although this happening frequently seems unlikely.
>
> Martin, note that Dima is calling degree with a min/max qualifier added in
> front. I think this is leading to some confusion and cross-talk. However, I
> think it is better to have easily separable terms "valuation" and "degree"
> (which exist for polynomials).
>
> Best,
> Travis
>
> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 3:44:55 AM UTC+9 Martin R wrote:
>
>> I don't get it - are my previous messages invisible?
>>
>> 1st Message: I don't understand - `degree` doesn't make much sense for
>> Laurent series - there is no way to determine the degree of a LaurentSeries
>> and no way to determine the degree of a LazyLaurentSeries with one minor
>> exception - which is when it is known that the series terminates, but
>> that's rare.
>>
>> 2nd Message: I am very much against this.  I realise that this is a
>> convention one uses in mathematics, but here it would be extremely
>> confusing: in the lazy series code we use valuation a lot, and it must mean
>> lowest degree, but we also use the degree of polynomials and Laurent
>> polynomials and we must distinguish between the two.
>>
>> I feel a bit ignored,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On Friday 1 March 2024 at 19:29:26 UTC+1 Giacomo Pope wrote:
>>
>> As an aside, the univariate LaurentPolynomialRing had a notion of
>> `valuation` but the multivariate one didn't...
>>
>> In the PR: https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37490 I added random
>> elements but also a notion of valuation() for the multivariate case and
>> just made it act similarly to the univariate one.
>>
>> On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 6:18:01 PM UTC Nils Bruin wrote:
>>
>> On Friday 1 March 2024 at 09:49:15 UTC-8 Giacomo Pope wrote:
>>
>> Following this discussion, I have made a draft PR to change the degree
>> for *only* the LaurentPolynomialRing and I will see if the CI detects
>> anything.
>>
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37513
>>
>> I agree that if we change the LaurentPolynomialRing we should also change
>> the `LaurentSeriesRing`, at the moment `LazyLaurentSeriesRing` has no
>> method `degree()` but *does* have a `valuation()` method... so this is odd.
>>
>>
>> OK, let's keep it that way then! I don't think there is a notion on
>> LaurentSeriesRing that deserves the name "degree". Sorry about mixing that
>> one in. I thought it existed. And I think it does:
>>
>>  sage: R.=LaurentSeriesRing(QQ)
>> sage: z=R(0)
>> sage: z.valuation()
>> +Infinity
>> sage: z.degree()
>> -1
>>
>> but if it's not documented, perhaps we can just ignore it.
>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Degree of the zero polynomial ring for `LaurentPolynomialRing`

[John Cremona]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 at 11:03, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 10:24 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 at 10:04, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1 March 2024 09:07:26 GMT, 'Martin R' via sage-devel <
>>> sage-devel@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>> >I'd be OK with raising an exception or with -oo, but it should be
>>> uniform,
>>> >and I think it should be the same for polynomials, Laurent polynomials
>>> and
>>> >in the same spirit for degree and valuation.
>>> >
>>> >It might be best to raise an exception, because this ensures that the
>>> zero
>>> >polynomial gets special treatment.
>>>
>>> Exceptions are expensive, performance-wise, and using them as a regular
>>> means of controlling the flow of the algorithm execution is not a good idea.
>>> A simple  if/then/else  is much cheaper.
>>>
>>
>> Isn't this suggestion to have f.degree() raise an exception when f is
>> zero, but also then that any code which needs the degree to treat 0 as a
>> special case (where that makes sense)?   To it would be the caller's
>> responsibility to do that with a test of f.is_zero() or whatever, rather
>> than by seeing if an exception is triggered.
>>
>
> Letting degree(0) throw an exception means that every place where you want
> to test whether the degree of fg satisfies something needs a testing
> whether f or g is 0, in order to avoid an exception.
>

Fair enough.  I had been assuming that for the types we are talking about
testing for equality with 0 would be fast, but perhaps it is not.


>
> OTOH, setting the degree of 0 to be -oo has an obvious advantage: it
> automaticlly gives mathematically correct degree of fg, by using
> degree(fg)=degree(f)+degree(g), regardless of f or g being 0. And checking
> the degree is (or at least ought to be) faster than comparing for equality
> to 0.
>

It's a little dangerous to talk of -oo being "mathematically correct", but
I have given this definition myself in undergraduate course (and for the
reason you give) so that's ok, especially as in Sage we do have -oo as a
possible return value and no requiremt for the value to always be of the
same type (e.g. Integer).


>
> Yes, it requires a change of the mental picture somehow. But same applies
> for e.g. using projective setting instead of affine one in geometry: you
> don't need to throw a mental exception as soon as you get parallel lines :-)
>
> Dima
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dima
>>> >
>>> >Martin
>>> >On Thursday 29 February 2024 at 22:54:20 UTC+1 Nils Bruin wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Thursday 29 February 2024 at 11:15:21 UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> How about using something like
>>> https://github.com/NeilGirdhar/extended_int
>>> >> ?
>>> >> (Even better, do a PEP to have such a thing in Python proper...)
>>> >> In old, totally duck-typed, Python this didn't really matter, but
>>> nowadays
>>> >> it does make
>>> >> a perfect sense.
>>> >>
>>> >> At the moment, I think most degree functions do their best to return
>>> sage
>>> >> Integer objects; mainly so that coercion works well with them. So
>>> whatever
>>> >> solution we use should probably be based on objects that naturally
>>> live in
>>> >> the sage hierarchy. We do have an infinity object in sage and it
>>> already
>>> >> gets used for valuations.
>>> >>
>>> >> Incidentally:
>>> >>
>>> >>  sage: R.=LaurentSeriesRing(QQ)
>>> >> sage: z=R(0)
>>> >> sage: z.valuation()
>>> >> +Infinity
>>> >> sage: z.degree()
>>> >> -1
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't quite know why laurent series have a degree defined at all,
>>> but
>>> >> they're keeping to the deg(0)=-1 convention.
>>> >>
>>> >> Incidentally:
>>> >>
>>> >> sage: A.=QQ[]
>>> >> sage: B.=LaurentPolynomialRing(QQ)
>>> >> sage: x.valuation(oo)
>>> >> -1
>>> >> sage: y.valuation(oo)
>>> >> 1
>>> >> so polynomial rings have a valuation (that will return +oo when
>>> >> appropriate), but on LaurentPolynomialRing this gets silentl

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Degree of the zero polynomial ring for `LaurentPolynomialRing`

[John Cremona]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 at 10:04, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

>
>
> On 1 March 2024 09:07:26 GMT, 'Martin R' via sage-devel <
> sage-devel@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >I'd be OK with raising an exception or with -oo, but it should be
> uniform,
> >and I think it should be the same for polynomials, Laurent polynomials
> and
> >in the same spirit for degree and valuation.
> >
> >It might be best to raise an exception, because this ensures that the
> zero
> >polynomial gets special treatment.
>
> Exceptions are expensive, performance-wise, and using them as a regular
> means of controlling the flow of the algorithm execution is not a good idea.
> A simple  if/then/else  is much cheaper.
>

Isn't this suggestion to have f.degree() raise an exception when f is zero,
but also then that any code which needs the degree to treat 0 as a special
case (where that makes sense)?   To it would be the caller's responsibility
to do that with a test of f.is_zero() or whatever, rather than by seeing if
an exception is triggered.

John


>
> Dima
> >
> >Martin
> >On Thursday 29 February 2024 at 22:54:20 UTC+1 Nils Bruin wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday 29 February 2024 at 11:15:21 UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> >>
> >> How about using something like
> https://github.com/NeilGirdhar/extended_int
> >> ?
> >> (Even better, do a PEP to have such a thing in Python proper...)
> >> In old, totally duck-typed, Python this didn't really matter, but
> nowadays
> >> it does make
> >> a perfect sense.
> >>
> >> At the moment, I think most degree functions do their best to return
> sage
> >> Integer objects; mainly so that coercion works well with them. So
> whatever
> >> solution we use should probably be based on objects that naturally live
> in
> >> the sage hierarchy. We do have an infinity object in sage and it
> already
> >> gets used for valuations.
> >>
> >> Incidentally:
> >>
> >>  sage: R.=LaurentSeriesRing(QQ)
> >> sage: z=R(0)
> >> sage: z.valuation()
> >> +Infinity
> >> sage: z.degree()
> >> -1
> >>
> >> I don't quite know why laurent series have a degree defined at all, but
> >> they're keeping to the deg(0)=-1 convention.
> >>
> >> Incidentally:
> >>
> >> sage: A.=QQ[]
> >> sage: B.=LaurentPolynomialRing(QQ)
> >> sage: x.valuation(oo)
> >> -1
> >> sage: y.valuation(oo)
> >> 1
> >> so polynomial rings have a valuation (that will return +oo when
> >> appropriate), but on LaurentPolynomialRing this gets silently broken:
> the
> >> argument simply gets ignored and the valuation at 0 is returned. So I
> guess
> >> you can get a well-behaving degree with
> >>
> >> f=0*y
> >> -f(1/y).valuation()
> >>
> >
>
> --
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Degree of the zero polynomial ring for `LaurentPolynomialRing`

[John Cremona]

There may be case for leaving deg(0) undefined both for polynomials and
Laurent polynomials (and power series and Laurent series): it's at best a
shorthand (pace Nils' comment about dimensions) and needs to be handled
separately in code.  So calling deg(0) could raise a ValueError or
ArithmeticError (just as "factor(0)" does)?

John

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 at 16:34, Oscar Benjamin 
wrote:

> I recently reviewed cases in the sympy polys code that handle the
> degree of a zero polynomial:
> https://github.com/sympy/sympy/pull/25784
>
> My conclusion is that it is sometimes useful that deg(0) < deg(p) for
> p != 0 but otherwise it is not really possible to use the value of
> deg(0) for anything meaningful in practice. Generally if deg(p) is
> needed then the zero polynomial needs special handling that no
> particular value of deg(0) helps with. I would prefer that deg(0) = -1
> just so that the deg() function has a well defined type.
>
> For Laurent polynomials I am not sure that I would define a degree()
> method or if I did that it would be defined as the exponent of the
> leading term. It isn't clear to me when that notion of degree would be
> useful: it doesn't seem like it would generalise the ways that degree
> is  typically used for ordinary polynomials.
>
> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 at 10:57, Giacomo Pope  wrote:
> >
> > There seem to be two things we could do here:
> >
> > 1. Have some form of vote / discussion on whether the degree of the zero
> polynomial should *ever* be -1
> > 2. Modify the degree calls for the LaurentSeries and
> LaurentPolynomialRing (maybe other Laurent* which I am unfamiliar with) to
> have the zero polynomial have degree -Infinity.
> >
> > Option 1 may be cleaner in the long run, but I assume will cause issues
> for more people in the short term. Option 2 seems fairly harmless and
> there's no good argument for degree -1 in this case.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in option 2, I will find time to make a PR to do
> this, but I will not start this work without other people's input as this
> is not code I am familiar with using and so I don't know what people could
> be relying on.
> > On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 6:41:48 PM UTC Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 5:00 PM Nils Bruin  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday 28 February 2024 at 08:03:45 UTC-8 Giacomo Pope wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't know the history of this choice or what we should be doing
> generally. -1 for polynomials with only positive degree seems like a
> computer science workaround, but for the LaurentPolynomialRing it just
> seems wrong?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think it's more than just a CS workaround. It has its roots in
> dimension considerations: the space of polynomials of degree at most d is
> (d+1)-dimensional. WIth that convention, 0 having degree -1 makes perfect
> sense.
> >>
> >>
> >> well, it's the convention used in Singular.
> >> But GAP and Macaulay2 use -infinity.
> >>
> >> The arguments for -infinity:
> >>
> >> 1) degree of the product should be the sum of degrees; so it's got to
> be infinite.
> >> 2) it should be -infinity, to make sense of the rule that if you do
> division f/g with remainder r,
> >> the degree of the remainder should be less than the deg(r)<=deg(f), but
> if r=0 then the only way
> >> to get this is to use -infinity.
> >>
> >> Dima
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For deg = - ord_infty it should definitely be -oo, though, and for
> Laurent polynomials the dimension argument doesn't work.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Error building sage on ubuntu 22.04.3 from git, develop branch, package singular-4.3.2p8, eclib

[John Cremona]

Try not using the system's eclib.  I don't think that any Linux
distribution has an up to date eclib (but I don't keep track of this).
Sage does now have a very up to date eclib, and building it will not take
long.

John Cremona

On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 at 21:59, Aurore Guillevic 
wrote:

> Dear Sagemath developers,,
>
> I am trying to install sagemath from git.
> I am following the instructions at
> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/installation/source.html
>
> First I did a tentative without anything special when configuring, but
> there were errors building singular and eclib. Then I tried to force
> sagemath to use the packages of the system (ubuntu) instead of installing
> them again so I tried:
>
> git clean -x -f -d # clean the previous tentative of installation
>
> export MAKE="make -j4" # exploit the 4 processors
> make configure
> ./configure --help
> ./configure --with-system-singular=yes --with-system-eclib=yes
> --config-cache --enable-ccache
>
> First there is this repeated warning:
>
> [flint-3.0.1] ./src/ulong_extras.h:92:36: warning: implicit declaration of
> function 'mpn_gcd_11'; did you mean 'mpn_gcd_1'?
> [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
> [flint-3.0.1]92 | res = (x != 1 && y != 1) ? mpn_gcd_11(x, y)
> : 1;
>
> Then
> [singular-4.3.2p8] Error installing package singular-4.3.2p8
> The two log files are attached to this email.
>
> I suspect the problem is some incompatibility of versions of packages?
> (very common with a ubuntu LTS). Here are the installed packages:
>
> apt list **eclib** **singular**
> En train de lister... Fait
> eclib-tools/jammy,now 20210625-1build1 amd64  [installé]
> libsingular4-dev-common/jammy,jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 all [installé,
> automatique]
> libsingular4-dev/jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 amd64  [installé]
> libsingular4m2n1/jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 amd64  [installé, automatique]
> singular-data/jammy,jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 all  [installé, automatique]
> singular-doc/jammy,jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 all  [installé]
> singular-modules/jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 amd64  [installé, automatique]
> singular-ui/jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 amd64  [installé, automatique]
> singular/jammy,now 1:4.2.1-p3+ds-1 amd64  [installé]
>
>
> Many thanks for your help,
>
> Aurore.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] automatic tests keep failling

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023, 19:44 Matthias Koeppe, 
wrote:

> Meanwhile various PRs that make improvements to the CI are waiting for
> review:
> - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36726
> - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36694
> - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36829
> - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36498
>
>
I see that one of those is relevant to one of my PRs as it mentions changes
in the m4 configure script.

I'm afraid that I am not competent to review these.

John



> On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 7:03:01 AM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 19 December 2023 14:49:19 GMT, John Cremona 
>> wrote:
>> >On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 at 14:20, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:54 PM John Cremona 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I am finding it impossible to get simple PRs to get past the
>> automatic
>> >> testing workflow system, which are repeatedly failing for reasons
>> which
>> >> have noting to do with any code I have changed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Two current examples are
>> >> >
>> >> > - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36786 ( a simple bugfix
>> which
>> >> I submitted 3 weeks ago and which could easily have made it into the
>> last
>> >> release)
>> >> > - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36879 (an update to
>> standard
>> >> dependency package eclib, requiring no code changes at all)
>> >> >
>> >> > It used to be such a simple matter to locate a bug, fix it and get
>> the
>> >> fix merged. Now it seems almost impossible (for me at least).
>> >>
>> >> Hi John,
>> >>
>> >> You have enough rights to ask people for reviews, right on the PR
>> page.
>> >> You should also put up a "needs review" tag, there, on the right side
>> >> of the page.
>> >> Without "needs review" tag chances are that noone will look at it.
>> >>
>> >
>> >I would have assumed that no-one would look at a PR whose automatic
>> tests
>> >were failing, since that *should* indicate that something is wrong with
>> the
>> >PR.
>> >
>> >My complaint is that even with a PR based on the current develop branch,
>> >tests are failing which are not caused by the PR.
>>
>> One way to fix this would be CI that only tests a relevant subset of
>> things, and it's not quite there yet.
>>
>> So one has to look at results of CI to gauge the results. One reason for
>> this is that the workflow of the release manager is not quite aligned with
>> the CI,
>> so our beta releases might well fail our CI !
>>
>>
>> >
>> >But I will certainly now ask you to review both of these!
>> >
>> >John
>> >
>> >
>> >> Dima
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > This is a huge disincentive to people who would like to contribute
>> to
>> >> Sage.
>> >> >
>> >> > John
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >> Groups "sage-devel" group.
>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send
>> >> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAD0p0K6umsq4yN27iHt%3Dpj3nh_8ZFTWSSzTGcBDicMsu0HMX0w%40mail.gmail.com
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> an
>> >> email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> >>
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>> >> .
>> >>
>> >
>>
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Re: [sage-devel] automatic tests keep failling

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 at 14:20, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:54 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > I am finding it impossible to get simple PRs to get past the automatic
> testing workflow system, which are repeatedly failing for reasons which
> have noting to do with any code I have changed.
> >
> > Two current examples are
> >
> >  - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36786 ( a simple bugfix which
> I submitted 3 weeks ago and which could easily have made it into the last
> release)
> >  - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36879 (an update to standard
> dependency package eclib, requiring no code changes at all)
> >
> > It used to be such a simple matter to locate a bug, fix it and get the
> fix merged.  Now it seems almost impossible (for me at least).
>
> Hi John,
>
> You have enough rights to ask people for reviews, right on the PR page.
> You should also put up a "needs review" tag, there, on the right side
> of the page.
> Without "needs review" tag chances are that noone will look at it.
>

I would have assumed that no-one would look at a PR whose automatic tests
were failing, since that *should* indicate that something is wrong with the
PR.

My complaint is that even with a PR based on the current develop branch,
tests are failing which are not caused by the PR.

But I will certainly now ask you to review both of these!

John


> Dima
>
>
> > This is a huge disincentive to people who would like to contribute to
> Sage.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>
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[sage-devel] automatic tests keep failling

[John Cremona]

I am finding it impossible to get simple PRs to get past the automatic
testing workflow system, which are repeatedly failing for reasons which
have noting to do with any code I have changed.

Two current examples are

 - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36786 ( a simple bugfix which I
submitted 3 weeks ago and which could easily have made it into the last
release)
 - https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36879 (an update to standard
dependency package eclib, requiring no code changes at all)

It used to be such a simple matter to locate a bug, fix it and get the fix
merged.  Now it seems almost impossible (for me at least).  This is a huge
disincentive to people who would like to contribute to Sage.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] eclib dependencies

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 at 12:15, Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> On 2023-11-16 09:23:15, John Cremona wrote:
> >
> > If no-one has any reason to keep things as they are I will make a PR with
> > the relevant changes to build/pkgs/eclib.
>
> From a packaging standpoint, fewer dependencies is better. For
> example, upgrading flint would become a tiny bit easier if we didn't
> have to worry about it breaking eclib. And on Gentoo we have a lot of
> people who simply prefer to turn every optional feature off. So I
> think it's a nice idea.
>

Thanks Michael.  AFter more thought I think I will leave flint as a
dependency, as there are quite a few features of flint (especially in
flint3) which could be used in eclib, and which improve it, if I find the
time.  It's just that right now, if you omit "--with-flint" on eclib's
configure then you still get a 100% wworking eclib.


>
>
> > Also, looking at eclib's spkg-configure.m4 I see (and recall) that we put
> > in a check for an exact eclib version (currently 20230424), which seems
> > unnecessarily restrictive.  I would welcome suggestions for how to either
> > check for a certain version *or later*, and/or check that the library has
> > certain functions which we know that Sage wil need.
>
> The version restrictions are usually about the tests passing and not
> about what works. For example if foo-1.0 prints "1 + 2" and foo-2.0
> prints "2 + 1", that can cause the tests to fail until we update them
> to accept both outputs. In the meantime we would probably reject
> foo-2.0 even though it too gives correct answers. (This will get
> better as fewer people rely on sage-the-distribution for exact
> versions.)
>
> Anyway, in this case, there are two autoconf tests that need to be
> changed from equality to greater-than-or-equality:
>
>   PKG_CHECK_MODULES([ECLIB], [eclib = SAGE_ECLIB_VER],...
>   AX_COMPARE_VERSION([$mwrank_version], [eq], [SAGE_ECLIB_VER],..
>

I'll try that out when I next upgrade eclib in Sage.  My latest version
detects whether it has Flint version 2 or 3 and does slightly different
things in those cases, both working correctly, but there is nothing to make
it worth a new release of eclib.  I'll probably do that once the work of
getting flint3 into Sage is finished.

John


>
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Re: [sage-devel] eclib dependencies

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 at 09:44, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

>
>
> On 16 November 2023 09:23:15 GMT, John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >Currently the eclib spkg has pari, ntl and flint as dependencies.  The
> >first two are essential, but flint is currently hardly used and everything
> >works without it.  (It is only used at all to compute the ref of a matrix
> >(with entries int or long int) mod p and if flint is not available it just
> >uses ntl instead.)
> >
> >It strikes me that there would be a small advantage within Sage to build
> >eclib without flint: it would only affect the function
> >CremonaModularSymbols() (and related) which are of very limited interest;
> >it would not affect any of the elliptic curve functionality in eclib.
>
> I don't think this is really worthwhile: only if there were flint-less
> versions of eclib abound on systems where Sage is installed,  these would
> be acceptable.
> But it's not the case, and flint is here anyway, so there is very little
> point in doing this.
>

OK.   What triggered this for me was having installed flint3 on my machine,
as Sage doesn't (yet) work with that, and it therefore prevents Sage using
my own installed eclib.

The install script does have a now-redundant few lines of code relating to
flint configuration, which can be simplified now anyway.

>
>
>
> >
> >If no-one has any reason to keep things as they are I will make a PR with
> >the relevant changes to build/pkgs/eclib.
> >
> >Also, looking at eclib's spkg-configure.m4 I see (and recall) that we put
> >in a check for an exact eclib version (currently 20230424), which seems
> >unnecessarily restrictive.  I would welcome suggestions for how to either
> >check for a certain version *or later*, and/or check that the library has
> >certain functions which we know that Sage wil need.
>
> indeed, we can relax to "or later". I suppose you're not  going to break
> upward  compatibility of functions used in Sage.
>

Not intentionally


>
> Dima
> >
> >Not until after 10.2 is realeased, certainly.
> >
> >John
> >
>
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[sage-devel] eclib dependencies

[John Cremona]

Currently the eclib spkg has pari, ntl and flint as dependencies.  The
first two are essential, but flint is currently hardly used and everything
works without it.  (It is only used at all to compute the ref of a matrix
(with entries int or long int) mod p and if flint is not available it just
uses ntl instead.)

It strikes me that there would be a small advantage within Sage to build
eclib without flint: it would only affect the function
CremonaModularSymbols() (and related) which are of very limited interest;
it would not affect any of the elliptic curve functionality in eclib.

If no-one has any reason to keep things as they are I will make a PR with
the relevant changes to build/pkgs/eclib.

Also, looking at eclib's spkg-configure.m4 I see (and recall) that we put
in a check for an exact eclib version (currently 20230424), which seems
unnecessarily restrictive.  I would welcome suggestions for how to either
check for a certain version *or later*, and/or check that the library has
certain functions which we know that Sage wil need.

Not until after 10.2 is realeased, certainly.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Question about make dependencies

[John Cremona]

Please all cool it down.

John

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 at 04:59, John H Palmieri 
wrote:

> If I respond using "verb" as a verb, do you really think I'm seriously
> criticizing you about using "vendor" as a verb? You're telling me to get a
> life? Get a sense of humor.
>
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 3:45:07 PM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>> I have not invented the verb "to vendor", I merely picked it up from
>> Python docs and PEPs, e.g.
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0518/#configparser
>> (this one was written by  native English speakers, I think)
>>
>> You seem to prefer to pick on my supposedly broken English, rather than
>> read Python docs, as it's much less fun.
>>
>> Get a life.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2023, 23:19 John H Palmieri,  wrote:
>>
>>> Not all Americans like to verb things so profligately.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 1:15:07 PM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>>


 On Tue, 14 Nov 2023, 20:39 Matthias Koeppe, 
 wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 11:39:52 AM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 7:22 PM Marc Culler 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 11:58 AM Dima Pasechnik 
> wrote:
> >> I imagine it might be an artifact of the design of Sage on Mac app
> >> Marc is releasing:
> >> vendor everything.
> >
> > Vendor is a noun, not a verb.
>
> It's a curse, to be precise, and it slows down the project a lot.
> We have to worry about over 400 packages!!!
> Bloody hell, pardon my UK French, we have more interesting problems to
> work on...
>
>
> FWIW, I consider Marc's effort to provide a self-contained macOS app
> of Sage to be very valuable for the project.
>
> Dima is indeed using the word "vendor" incorrectly. I'm not concerned
> about the grammar; I use it as a verb, too, in this specific context.
> For source code, "vendoring" (= including a copy of the source code of
> a dependency, modified or not, in the source code) is problematic for
> various well known reasons.
> But to accuse a binary distribution of "vendoring" is simply
> meaningless. A binary distribution is made for the benefit of users.
>

 I am not accusing Marc of vendoring, I am saying that him asking to
 supply essentially all the components of Sage in source form is asking too
 much, as it saddles us with extremely heavy maintenance task, for reasons
 questionable.

 Suppose we remove gmp from the list of packages we vendor (yes, "to
 vendor", i.e. "to perform vendoring", may be a verb, as we see here. As
 Americans make verbs out of everything, I find myself being gaslighted here
 by one of them.)

 What then, will it make the task of making a macOS Sage app impossible,
 or much harder, all of a sudden?
 I have trouble believing this.


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Re: [sage-devel] Sage-relevant environment variables

[John Cremona]

Thajd Dima, very helpful as always!  I can't believe that after years of
using git I did not know about git grep (but I'm sure that you can believe
it).

Incidentally, setting SAGE_ATLAS_LIB was one of the early ways to help
developers by saying to use a system build of atlas which otherwise took a
very long time.  We have come a long way since then.

John

On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 at 14:59, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> Of these listed, only SAGE_INSTALL_CCACHE and SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI
> are mentioned in Sage's source, as you can see by running
>
> git grep SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI
> git grep foobar
>
> etc
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 2:33 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > I have machines I have been building Sage on (and using for development)
> for 10 years or more, and they have several environment variables of the
> form SAGE* which I set in my .bashrc script.  I suspect that all or most of
> these are redundant; some may even be harmful.  Is there a list somewhere
> of which envoronment variables *are* currently used?
> >
> > Here's an example:
> >
> > jec@lehner:~/sage (branch: develop)$ env | grep SAGE
> > SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=yes
> > SAGE_PARALLEL_SPKG_BUILD=yes
> > SAGE_ATLAS_LIB=/usr/lib
> >
> > Another also has
> > jec@atkin:/usr/local/include$ env | grep SAGE
> > SAGE_UPGRADING=yes
> > SAGE_INSTALL_CCACHE=yes
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
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[sage-devel] Sage-relevant environment variables

[John Cremona]

I have machines I have been building Sage on (and using for development)
for 10 years or more, and they have several environment variables of the
form SAGE* which I set in my .bashrc script.  I suspect that all or most of
these are redundant; some may even be harmful.  Is there a list somewhere
of which envoronment variables *are* currently used?

Here's an example:

jec@lehner:~/sage (branch: develop)$ env | grep SAGE
SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=yes
SAGE_PARALLEL_SPKG_BUILD=yes
SAGE_ATLAS_LIB=/usr/lib

Another also has
jec@atkin:/usr/local/include$ env | grep SAGE
SAGE_UPGRADING=yes
SAGE_INSTALL_CCACHE=yes

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: pari installation

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 at 09:46, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 9:25 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > OK, so compiling he one-line file produces the same set of error
> messages as in Sage's log.
> >
> > Adding -E and examining the result shows that /usr/local/include/gmp/h
> is begin used (note the "local") and that file is -- despite the nsame --
> one put there by MPIR which I do have installed.
> >
> > I have had trouble before with the MPIR code pretending to be gmp, but I
> have not (yet) been able to eliminate MPIR from my built software, though I
> know that I should.
>
> What do you do with MPIR? We certainly have eliminated it from
> anywhere in Sage I can think of.
> (e.g. I removed MPIR from deformation spkg and replaced it with gmp)
> Anything you do with MPIR can be just as well done with gmp.
>

No reason except inertia.  I think I used to install MPIR for use with
FLINT (which I do actually use), which is of course unnecessary.

It is quite tricky to uninstall a system-wide MPIR which has been
configured to pretend to be gmp -- for example, putting a header file
called gmp.h into /usr/local/include, and putting files called libgmp* into
/usr/local/lib.

John



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Re: [sage-devel] Re: pari installation

[John Cremona]

OK, so compiling he one-line file produces the same set of error messages
as in Sage's log.

Adding -E and examining the result shows that /usr/local/include/gmp/h is
begin used (note the "local") and that file is -- despite the nsame -- one
put there by MPIR which I do have installed.

I have had trouble before with the MPIR code pretending to be gmp, but I
have not (yet) been able to eliminate MPIR from my built software, though I
know that I should.

ANyway, renaming that /usr/local/include/gmp.h (at least temporarily) and
rerunning the one-liner shows that it now works and gets its gmp.h
from /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/gmp.h which looks good.

However, configure still didn't like my system pari. Next I uninstalled
ubuntu's official pari-related packages (which were there as well as my own
newer version in /usr/local) and tried again.  That very nearly worked, and
DID WORK after I rebuilt my pari with the --mt=pthreads option which I had
forgotten.

Thanks for all the help, I am rebuilding Sage now to make sure that
everything works.  I suppose my next job will be to persuade Sage to use my
own eclib (which I certainly have installed!) which is likely to run into
some of the same issues.

John

On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 18:01, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> I guess your gmp installation is shot (e.g. there is another one,which
> causes header mess),or your g++ installation is shot, or both.
> Are there any CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS/CPPFLAGS set in the shell, by any chance?
>
> Can you try running
>
> g++ -c foo.cpp
>
> on the 1-line file foo.cpp,like this:
>
> /* cut here: foo.cpp */
> #include 
> /* cut here */
>
>
> Dima
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:57 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > After rerunning ./boostrap there was no difference.
> >
> > I have attached config.log, and there are error messages i nthe gmp
> check which I hope will mean something to somebody.
> >
> > I don't think that there is anything relevant in my env but some of
> these are surely obsolete:
> >
> > john@john-Latitude-E5470:~/sage (branch: develop)$ env | grep SAGE
> > SAGE_UPGRADING=yes
> > SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=yes
> > SAGE_PARALLEL_SPKG_BUILD=yes
> > SAGE_INSTALL_CCACHE=yes
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 16:44, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> >>
> >> also check that ./configure is not stale - re-run ./bootstrap
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:20 PM Dima Pasechnik 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023, 16:17 John Cremona, 
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 15:31, Dima Pasechnik 
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 3:20 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 12:51, John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> On Wed, 8 Nov 2023, 11:46 Dima Pasechnik, 
> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 11:37 AM John Cremona <
> john.crem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >>> >
> >> >>> >>> > PS OK, my bug was fixed in pari-2.15.4 which is what is in
> Sage 10.2rc0 so I am happy with that -- though I would still like to know
> how to use my system-installed 2.16.1.
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> if you have pari installed in Sage you need to uninstall it
> before
> >> >>> >>> using the system-wide one. This can be done by
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> make pari-clean pari-uninstall
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> and then you can run ./configure and hope that the system one
> is judged OK.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > After this, configure did not like the newly installed
> system-wide pari (version 2.16.1).
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Checking whether SageMath should install SPKG pari...
> >> >>> > checking whether any of gmp readline is installed as or will be
> installed as SPKG... yes; install pari as well
> >> >>> > configure: no suitable system package found for SPKG pari
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > -- which is what you thought might happen.  So I al

Re: [sage-devel] Re: pari installation

[John Cremona]

On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 15:31, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 3:20 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 12:51, John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 8 Nov 2023, 11:46 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 11:37 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > PS OK, my bug was fixed in pari-2.15.4 which is what is in Sage
> 10.2rc0 so I am happy with that -- though I would still like to know how to
> use my system-installed 2.16.1.
> >>>
> >>> if you have pari installed in Sage you need to uninstall it before
> >>> using the system-wide one. This can be done by
> >>>
> >>> make pari-clean pari-uninstall
> >>>
> >>> and then you can run ./configure and hope that the system one is
> judged OK.
> >
> >
> > After this, configure did not like the newly installed system-wide pari
> (version 2.16.1).
> >
> > Checking whether SageMath should install SPKG pari...
> > checking whether any of gmp readline is installed as or will be
> installed as SPKG... yes; install pari as well
> > configure: no suitable system package found for SPKG pari
> >
> > -- which is what you thought might happen.  So I also did make x-clean
> x-uninstall for x=gmp and x=readline.  AFter that it was happy with my
> readline but not with my gmp.  I wonder why:
> >
> > Checking whether SageMath should install SPKG gmp...
> > checking for gmp.h... yes
> > checking for gmpxx.h... no
> > checking for library containing __gmpq_cmp_z... -lgmp
> > configure: no suitable system package found for SPKG gmp
> >
> > I do of course have gmp installed, I'm not sure anything works without
> it (this is a ubuntu Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS system).  I have libgmp-dev,
> libgmp10, libgmp10-doc, libgmp3-dev, libgmpxx4ldbl.  The file mentioned
> gmpxx is in /usr/include (and also in
> /usr/local/sage/sage-10.1/local/include/gmpxx.h from a system-wide
> installation of sage 10.1) -- and those two files are identical.
>
> do you have a file named
>
> /usr/include/gmpxx.h ?
>
> Or is it
>
> /usr/include/gmpxx ?
>
> The latter won't work.
>

I do have the former:

john@john-Latitude-E5470:~/sage (branch: develop)$ locate gmpxx.h
/usr/include/gmpxx.h
/usr/local/sage/sage-10.1/local/include/gmpxx.h

and no file gmpxx (without the suffix) anywhere.



>
>
>
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > John
> >
> >>>
> >>> HTH
> >>> Dima
> >>>
> >>> PS.I'm also not 100% sure that the dependency resolution will work
> >>> correctly, so that everything that depends on libpari is properly
> >>> rebuilt (or you need to clean these all, manually, as well)
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks Dima, I'll try and report back.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 11:28, John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Two things:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> 1. After
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ./configure --enable-pari_elldata  --enable-pari_galpol
> --enable-pari_jupyter --enable-pari_nftables --enable-pari_seadata
> >>> >>
> >>> >> and make build I had an error installing pari_jupyter (which I had
> never used before).  See attched log.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> 2. I really need to build Sage to use my own installation of a more
> recent version of pari than the one which Sage includes, which appears to
> now be 2.15.4, as It has a bug in functions I use.  I have my own
> istallation of pari-2.16.1 (in /usr/local), and used --with-system-pari=yes
> in the configure line, but configure still reports
> >>> >>
> >>> >> pari:   SPKG version 2.15.4 is already
> installed
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ---
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Of these, #1 is not important to me right now but #2 is.  Thanks,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> John
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> > To

Re: [sage-devel] Re: pari installation

[John Cremona]

On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 12:51, John Cremona  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2023, 11:46 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 11:37 AM John Cremona 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > PS OK, my bug was fixed in pari-2.15.4 which is what is in Sage 10.2rc0
>> so I am happy with that -- though I would still like to know how to use my
>> system-installed 2.16.1.
>>
>> if you have pari installed in Sage you need to uninstall it before
>> using the system-wide one. This can be done by
>>
>> make pari-clean pari-uninstall
>>
>> and then you can run ./configure and hope that the system one is judged
>> OK.
>>
>
After this, configure did not like the newly installed system-wide pari
(version 2.16.1).

Checking whether SageMath should install SPKG pari...
checking whether any of gmp readline is installed as or will be installed
as SPKG... yes; install pari as well
configure: no suitable system package found for SPKG pari

-- which is what you thought might happen.  So I also did make x-clean
x-uninstall for x=gmp and x=readline.  AFter that it was happy with my
readline but not with my gmp.  I wonder why:

Checking whether SageMath should install SPKG gmp...
checking for gmp.h... yes
checking for gmpxx.h... no
checking for library containing __gmpq_cmp_z... -lgmp
configure: no suitable system package found for SPKG gmp

I do of course have gmp installed, I'm not sure anything works without it
(this is a ubuntu Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS system).  I have libgmp-dev, libgmp10,
libgmp10-doc, libgmp3-dev, libgmpxx4ldbl.  The file mentioned gmpxx is in
/usr/include (and also in /usr/local/sage/sage-10.1/local/include/gmpxx.h
from a system-wide installation of sage 10.1) -- and those two files are
identical.

Any ideas?

John


>> HTH
>> Dima
>>
>> PS.I'm also not 100% sure that the dependency resolution will work
>> correctly, so that everything that depends on libpari is properly
>> rebuilt (or you need to clean these all, manually, as well)
>>
>
> Thanks Dima, I'll try and report back.
>
> John
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 11:28, John Cremona 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Two things:
>> >>
>> >> 1. After
>> >>
>> >> ./configure --enable-pari_elldata  --enable-pari_galpol
>> --enable-pari_jupyter --enable-pari_nftables --enable-pari_seadata
>> >>
>> >> and make build I had an error installing pari_jupyter (which I had
>> never used before).  See attched log.
>> >>
>> >> 2. I really need to build Sage to use my own installation of a more
>> recent version of pari than the one which Sage includes, which appears to
>> now be 2.15.4, as It has a bug in functions I use.  I have my own
>> istallation of pari-2.16.1 (in /usr/local), and used --with-system-pari=yes
>> in the configure line, but configure still reports
>> >>
>> >> pari:   SPKG version 2.15.4 is already
>> installed
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >>
>> >> Of these, #1 is not important to me right now but #2 is.  Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >
>> > --
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>> Groups "sage-devel" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAD0p0K5S%3DmdGxKRXCY2zEALCaJFi_z5_8t%3DhHro-uHtSon%2BCKA%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: pari installation

[John Cremona]

On Wed, 8 Nov 2023, 11:46 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 11:37 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > PS OK, my bug was fixed in pari-2.15.4 which is what is in Sage 10.2rc0
> so I am happy with that -- though I would still like to know how to use my
> system-installed 2.16.1.
>
> if you have pari installed in Sage you need to uninstall it before
> using the system-wide one. This can be done by
>
> make pari-clean pari-uninstall
>
> and then you can run ./configure and hope that the system one is judged OK.
>
> HTH
> Dima
>
> PS.I'm also not 100% sure that the dependency resolution will work
> correctly, so that everything that depends on libpari is properly
> rebuilt (or you need to clean these all, manually, as well)
>

Thanks Dima, I'll try and report back.

John


>
>
>
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 11:28, John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Two things:
> >>
> >> 1. After
> >>
> >> ./configure --enable-pari_elldata  --enable-pari_galpol
> --enable-pari_jupyter --enable-pari_nftables --enable-pari_seadata
> >>
> >> and make build I had an error installing pari_jupyter (which I had
> never used before).  See attched log.
> >>
> >> 2. I really need to build Sage to use my own installation of a more
> recent version of pari than the one which Sage includes, which appears to
> now be 2.15.4, as It has a bug in functions I use.  I have my own
> istallation of pari-2.16.1 (in /usr/local), and used --with-system-pari=yes
> in the configure line, but configure still reports
> >>
> >> pari:   SPKG version 2.15.4 is already installed
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Of these, #1 is not important to me right now but #2 is.  Thanks,
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > --
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[sage-devel] Re: pari installation

[John Cremona]

PS OK, my bug was fixed in pari-2.15.4 which is what is in Sage 10.2rc0 so
I am happy with that -- though I would still like to know how to use my
system-installed 2.16.1.

On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 at 11:28, John Cremona  wrote:

> Two things:
>
> 1. After
>
> ./configure --enable-pari_elldata  --enable-pari_galpol
> --enable-pari_jupyter --enable-pari_nftables --enable-pari_seadata
>
> and make build I had an error installing pari_jupyter (which I had never
> used before).  See attched log.
>
> 2. I really need to build Sage to use my own installation of a more recent
> version of pari than the one which Sage includes, which appears to now be
> 2.15.4, as It has a bug in functions I use.  I have my own istallation of
> pari-2.16.1 (in /usr/local), and used --with-system-pari=yes in the
> configure line, but configure still reports
>
> pari:   SPKG version 2.15.4 is already installed
>
> ---
>
> Of these, #1 is not important to me right now but #2 is.  Thanks,
>
> John
>

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[sage-devel] pari installation

[John Cremona]

Two things:

1. After

./configure --enable-pari_elldata  --enable-pari_galpol
--enable-pari_jupyter --enable-pari_nftables --enable-pari_seadata

and make build I had an error installing pari_jupyter (which I had never
used before).  See attched log.

2. I really need to build Sage to use my own installation of a more recent
version of pari than the one which Sage includes, which appears to now be
2.15.4, as It has a bug in functions I use.  I have my own istallation of
pari-2.16.1 (in /usr/local), and used --with-system-pari=yes in the
configure line, but configure still reports

pari:   SPKG version 2.15.4 is already installed

---

Of these, #1 is not important to me right now but #2 is.  Thanks,

John

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Attempting to download package pari-jupyter-1.4.0.tar.gz from mirrors
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/releases/download/10.2/pari-jupyter-1.4.0.tar.gz
[xx]
ERROR [transfer|run:135]: [Errno socket error] [Errno 404] Not Found: '//github.com/sagemath/sage/releases/download/10.2/pari-jupyter-1.4.0.tar.gz'
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/releases/download/10.1/pari-jupyter-1.4.0.tar.gz
[xx]
ERROR [transfer|run:135]: [Errno socket error] [Errno 404] Not Found: '//github.com/sagemath/sage/releases/download/10.1/pari-jupyter-1.4.0.tar.gz'
https://mirror.koddos.net/sagemath/spkg/upstream/pari_jupyter/pari-jupyter-1.4.0.tar.gz
[..]
pari_jupyter-1.4.0

Setting up build directory for pari_jupyter-1.4.0
Finished extraction
No patch files found in ../patches

Host system:
Linux john-Latitude-E5470 5.15.0-88-generic #98-Ubuntu SMP Mon Oct 2 15:18:56 UTC 2023 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

C compiler: gcc
C compiler version:
Using built-in specs.
COLLECT_GCC=/usr/bin/gcc
COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/11/lto-wrapper
OFFLOAD_TARGET_NAMES=nvptx-none:amdgcn-amdhsa
OFFLOAD_TARGET_DEFAULT=1
Target: x86_64-linux-gnu
Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion='Ubuntu 11.4.0-1ubuntu1~22.04' --with-bugurl=file:///usr/share/doc/gcc-11/README.Bugs --enable-languages=c,ada,c++,go,brig,d,fortran,objc,obj-c++,m2 --prefix=/usr --with-gcc-major-version-only --program-suffix=-11 --program-prefix=x86_64-linux-gnu- --enable-shared --enable-linker-build-id --libexecdir=/usr/lib --without-included-gettext --enable-threads=posix --libdir=/usr/lib --enable-nls --enable-bootstrap --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-libstdcxx-time=yes --with-default-libstdcxx-abi=new --enable-gnu-unique-object --disable-vtable-verify --enable-plugin --enable-default-pie --with-system-zlib --enable-libphobos-checking=release --with-target-system-zlib=auto --enable-objc-gc=auto --enable-multiarch --disable-werror --enable-cet --with-arch-32=i686 --with-abi=m64 --with-multilib-list=m32,m64,mx32 --enable-multilib --with-tune=generic --enable-offload-targets=nvptx-none=/build/gcc-11-XeT9lY/gcc-11-11.4.0/debian/tmp-nvptx/usr,amdgcn-amdhsa=/build/gcc-11-XeT9lY/gcc-11-11.4.0/debian/tmp-gcn/usr --without-cuda-driver --enable-checking=release --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --host=x86_64-linux-gnu --target=x86_64-linux-gnu --with-build-config=bootstrap-lto-lean --enable-link-serialization=2
Thread model: posix
Supported LTO compression algorithms: zlib zstd
gcc version 11.4.0 (Ubuntu 11.4.0-1ubuntu1~22.04) 

Package 'pari_jupyter' is currently not installed
No legacy uninstaller found for 'pari_jupyter'; nothing to do
Installing pari_jupyter-1.4.0
Looking in links: /home/john/sage/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/var/lib/sage/wheels
Processing /home/john/sage/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/var/tmp/sage/build/pari_jupyter-1.4.0/src
  Preparing metadata (setup.py): started
  Running command python setup.py egg_info
  running egg_info
  creating /tmp/pip-pip-egg-info-v5kx1_w4/pari_jupyter.egg-info
  writing /tmp/pip-pip-egg-info-v5kx1_w4/pari_jupyter.egg-info/PKG-INFO
  writing dependency_links to /tmp/pip-pip-egg-info-v5kx1_w4/pari_jupyter.egg-info/dependency_links.txt
  writing requirements to /tmp/pip-pip-egg-info-v5kx1_w4/pari_jupyter.egg-info/requires.txt
  writing top-level names to /tmp/pip-pip-egg-info-v5kx1_w4/pari_jupyter.egg-info/top_level.txt
  writing manifest file 

Re: [sage-devel] Poll: deprecate backslash operator

[John Cremona]

I assume that deprecation means that for a year or so people can still use
the backslash but will see a deprecation warning. This could last for quite
a long time, so existing code would not immediately break.

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, 18:41 Thierry Dumont, 
wrote:

> In "Computational Mathematics with SageMath" we have some backslash...
>
> So, if we deprecate it, we will have problems with the doctests
> asociated,... and with the book.
>
> I don't like the backslash for solving linear systems, but even Julia
> has adopted it, probably for Matlab users...
>
> t.d.
>
> Le 01/10/2023 à 05:17, Nils Bruin a écrit :
> > Deprecate please.
> >
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/699f7d70-4222-4f64-8ce4-e606478377a9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer
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Re: [sage-devel] Poll: deprecate backslash operator

[John Cremona]

Deprecate

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023, 04:17 Nils Bruin,  wrote:

> Deprecate please.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Gamma(N)

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 at 15:00, John Cremona  wrote:

> Thanks for the report, you are correct and there is a bug in the code.
> When reducing the cusp 6/7 it first reduced 6 and 7 mod the level 7 to get
> 6 and 0, then calls an internal function _lift_pair() which assumes that
> the new pair of integers is coprime.
>

In fact the bug was slightly different:  after reducing u and v mod N (for
the cusp u/v) when v=0 it was only returning Infinity (1/0) when u=1, not
also when u=N-1.  I'll make a PR for this soon.


>
> I will raise an issue and (probably) fix it right away.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 at 08:06, Ralf Hemmecke  wrote:
>
>> The following contradicts the specification of reduce_cusp for Gamma(7).
>>
>>
>> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/arithgroup/sage/modular/arithgroup/congroup_gamma.html
>>
>> sage: Gamma(7).are_equivalent(Cusp(6,7),Cusp(1,0))
>> True
>> sage: Gamma(7).reduce_cusp(Cusp(1,0))
>> Infinity
>> sage: Gamma(7).reduce_cusp(Cusp(6,7))
>> 6/7
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>> --
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Re: [sage-devel] Gamma(N)

[John Cremona]

Thanks for the report, you are correct and there is a bug in the code.
When reducing the cusp 6/7 it first reduced 6 and 7 mod the level 7 to get
6 and 0, then calls an internal function _lift_pair() which assumes that
the new pair of integers is coprime.

I will raise an issue and (probably) fix it right away.

John

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 at 08:06, Ralf Hemmecke  wrote:

> The following contradicts the specification of reduce_cusp for Gamma(7).
>
>
> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/arithgroup/sage/modular/arithgroup/congroup_gamma.html
>
> sage: Gamma(7).are_equivalent(Cusp(6,7),Cusp(1,0))
> True
> sage: Gamma(7).reduce_cusp(Cusp(1,0))
> Infinity
> sage: Gamma(7).reduce_cusp(Cusp(6,7))
> 6/7
>
> Ralf
>
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Re: [sage-devel] multiple deprecation warnings, which still point to trac

[John Cremona]

Thanks Dima.  I don't want to get into the discussions on that closed
ticket (the issue is not important to me) but I see that most of the
discussions were in 2017, then it was revised last July and closed on Aug
4.  And Gonzalo Tornaria asked the question as me ("How long it should take
until the deprecation warning is removed?") just 3 weeks ago.

I will ignore the warnings!

John

On Wed, 10 May 2023 at 15:38, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> I think everything of this sort is fixed in develop, i.e. will be fixed in
> 10.0.
>
> By the way, note that while http://trac.sagemath.org/22349 is not
> there, http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/22349 still works (well, with a
> little bump).
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 3:22 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > In a jupyter notebook cell running Sage 9.8 I see the following:
> >
> > /tmp/ipykernel_2055107/2497908513.py:2: DeprecationWarning: parameter
> 'sort' will be set to False by default in the future
> > See http://trac.sagemath.org/22349 for details.
> >   P.vertices(), P.edges()
> > /tmp/ipykernel_2055107/2497908513.py:2: DeprecationWarning: parameter
> 'sort' will be set to False by default in the future
> > See https://trac.sagemath.org/27408 for details.
> >   P.vertices(), P.edges()
> >
> > where P has type .  Two issues:
> >
> > (1) I thought that deprecation warnings were only supposed to be
> displayed once?  I know that I am using two different methods (vertices and
> edges) but even if I re-evaluate "P.vertices(), P.edges()' I get the two
> warnings.
> >
> > (2) There's a link to a nonexistent page http://trac.sagemath.org/22349.
>  Perhaps Sage 10 will do the right thing here, but this would be
> off-putting to a nonexpert user.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --
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[sage-devel] multiple deprecation warnings, which still point to trac

[John Cremona]

In a jupyter notebook cell running Sage 9.8 I see the following:

/tmp/ipykernel_2055107/2497908513.py:2: DeprecationWarning: parameter
'sort' will be set to False by default in the future
See http://trac.sagemath.org/22349 for details.
  P.vertices(), P.edges()
/tmp/ipykernel_2055107/2497908513.py:2: DeprecationWarning: parameter
'sort' will be set to False by default in the future
See https://trac.sagemath.org/27408 for details.
  P.vertices(), P.edges()

where P has type .  Two issues:

(1) I thought that deprecation warnings were only supposed to be displayed
once?  I know that I am using two different methods (vertices and edges)
but even if I re-evaluate "P.vertices(), P.edges()' I get the two warnings.

(2) There's a link to a nonexistent page http://trac.sagemath.org/22349.
 Perhaps Sage 10 will do the right thing here, but this would be
off-putting to a nonexpert user.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] modular form basis

[John Cremona]

There is also M.echelon_basis() which does that.  I don't know why we need
two, does anyone?

John

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 at 17:13, Ralf Hemmecke  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> is there any particular reason why the term 12/5*q is not subtracted
> away by the first basis element?
>
> Ralf
>
> ┌┐
> │ SageMath version 9.6, Release Date: 2022-05-15 │
> │ Using Python 3.10.6. Type "help()" for help.   │
> └┘
> sage: ModularForms(Gamma0(11), 2, prec=20).basis()
> [
> q - 2*q^2 - q^3 + 2*q^4 + q^5 + 2*q^6 - 2*q^7 - 2*q^9 - 2*q^10 + q^11 -
> 2*q^12 + 4*q^13 + 4*q^14 - q^15 - 4*q^16 - 2*q^17 + 4*q^18 + O(q^20),
> 1 + 12/5*q + 36/5*q^2 + 48/5*q^3 + 84/5*q^4 + 72/5*q^5 + 144/5*q^6 +
> 96/5*q^7 + 36*q^8 + 156/5*q^9 + 216/5*q^10 + 12/5*q^11 + 336/5*q^12 +
> 168/5*q^13 + 288/5*q^14 + 288/5*q^15 + 372/5*q^16 + 216/5*q^17 +
> 468/5*q^18 + 48*q^19 + O(q^20)
> ]
>
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Re: [sage-devel] RealField isn't doing it right

[John Cremona]

Even in the light of the detailed explanations already given, I do find it
hard to see how these outputs are so different:

sage: RealField(200)(RR(11/10))
1.100088817841970012523233890533447265625000
sage: RealField(200)(RR(1.1))
1.10

You can increase 200 to 1000: the second one gives all zeros (hooray!)
while the first one gives those extra digits which are exactly 1/(5 *
2^51).  Both RR(11/10) and RR(1.1) have parent  Real Field with 53 bits of
precision, where they compare equal, but pushing them into RealField(200)
gives different results.  And the "better" result (all 0s) somes from the
input with the literal 1.1, not from the "rational" input 11/10.   To me,
that is mysterious.  Can someone explain?

John

PS It is a red herring to give examples using the equality relation ==, as
that is a separate issue.  In Python == is not even associative.

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 at 22:39, aw  wrote:

> Guys, this is serious. Any dev who starts reading this, give it a hard
> look, ok?
>
> Below I give some examples where Sage give the wrong answer, with no error
> message or any indication that the answer is not correct.
>
> Probably the single most important rule in software is, never ever give
> users the wrong answer.
>
> Either give them the right answer, or give them no answer along with an
> error message explaining why the right answer can't be given.
>
> Why the heck is Sage not following this rule?
>
> After finding these examples, it's hard for me to trust any answer I get
> from Sage, unless I check it against other software, like Wolfram Alpha.
>
> One possible response to my examples below is, I am not using Sage
> functions in an approved way.
>
> But that's not a valid objection. A user should be able to send any
> argument to a function, and it's the responsibility of the programmer to
> make sure one of two things happen:
>
> (a) the user is given the right answer;
> or (b) the user is given no answer and an error message.
>
> Sage is failing to do this.
>
> On to the examples.
>
> Example 1, straight from the sage RealField docs:
>
> RealField(120)(RR(13/10))
> 1.3000444089209850062616
>
> RR has default 53 bits, so this is really:
>
> RealField(120)(RealField(53)(13/10))
>
> Here's the same thing with less precision to make it clear that this has
> nothing to do with Python's single or double precision floats:
>
> RealField(18)(RealField(12)(13/10)) (A)
>
> What should happen here is this:
> RealField(12) should eval 13/10 as 1.30
> RealField(12) should pass to RealField(18) only those digits, 1.30
> RealField(18) should then zero-pad that to 18 bits, yielding 1.3000
>
> Here's what sage does:
>
> RealField(18)(RealField(12)(13/10))
> 1.2998
>
> Let's check the types of all args:
>
> type(13/10)
> sage.rings.rational.Rational
>
> type(18)# type(12) is the same
> sage.rings.integer.Integer
>
> All args to RealField in (A) are Sage types.
> Hence everything in the calculation (A) is under the complete control of
> Sage.
> Hence Sage could easily do the right thing here.
>
> But it doesn't.
>
> You might say, this is an artificial example, passing the output of one
> RealField to another in a non-sanctioned way.
> Ok then, let's just pass arguments to one RealField.
> Can we get it to give wrong answers?
>
> Yes, very easily, by passing it an arithmetic expression.
>
> Sending in arithmetic expressions should be totally fine, because the
> RealField docs say: "This is a binding for the MPFR arbitrary-precision
> floating point library."
>
> The purpose of MPFR is to be able to do basic arithmetic in arbitrary
> precision.
> Basic arithmetic means any expression using the following ops (and maybe
> some others): +, -, *, /, ^
>
> So let's pass an arithmetic expression to RealField.
> The whole point of MPFR is to always give the right answer for the value
> of such an expression, for any expression and any requested precision.
> The docs say RealField is a binding for MPFR.
> So RealField should only give right answers.
> But in fact it sometimes gives the wrong answer.
>
> Here's one:
>
> RealField(200)(2*1.1)
> 2.20017763568394002504646778106689453125
>
> Let's check the types:
>
> type(2)
> 
>
> type(1.1)
> 
>
> type(2*1.1)
> 
>
> Here the expression 2*1.1 is not only a Sage type, it's a Sage type
> designed to work with MPFR. Hence passing 2*1.1 to RealField should yield
> the right answer.
>
> But it doesn't.
>
> How the heck was this not noticed earlier?
>
> I think I have a workaround for expressions such as 2*1.1: enter the 1.1
> as a sage rational, 11/10:
>
> RealField(200)(2*11/10)
> 2.20
>
> That works for this expression, but I worry that with other kinds of
> expression I could still get wrong answers.
>
> By the way, in this example i used numbers where we know the answer in
> advance, so it's easy to 

Re: [sage-devel] ChatGPT is an expert in SageMath too

[John Cremona]

Can this specific example be found in the online documentation?


On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 at 11:02, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:03 AM Kwankyu Lee  wrote:
> >
> > I asked "in sagemath, how can i compute the genus of a curve", and this
> is its reply:
> >
> > which is perfect. Impressive!
>
> did you try asking whether it's geometric genus, or not?
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] (x^6+y^9)%(x^3-y^2-1) == x^12*y - 4*x^9*y + ...

[John Cremona]

Surely it is just a question of precedence of variables.   In Sage you are
dividing by a quadratic in y and getting a remainder which is linear in y.
In pari you are dividing by a cubic in x and getting a remainder which is
of degree <3 in x.

If you swap x and y in both polynomials, sage's remainder is x^9 + x^4 +
2*x^2 + 1 as you were expecting (in y).

John

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 11:22, Georgi Guninski  wrote:

> Is this a bug:
>
> sage: K.=QQ[]
> sage: (x^6+y^9)%(x^3-y^2-1)
> x^12*y - 4*x^9*y + 6*x^6*y + x^6 - 4*x^3*y + y
>
> In pari:
> ? (x^6+y^9)%(x^3-y^2-1)
> %1 = y^9 + y^4 + 2*y^2 + 1
>
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Re: [sage-devel] weird commits on top of develop

[John Cremona]

We could also have a branch called release which is separate from develop.
Normal developers would make PRs to be merged into develop like now, but
the release manager could make PRs from develop to release.  That's the way
we do things in the LMFDB (with different names for the branches).  So
developers could wait until there was a new commit to release before
updating unless they were happy to live (a little more) dangerously and
pulling from develop itself.

John

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 at 15:32, Tobias Diez  wrote:

> The branch protection rules don't allow to make an exception for a single
> person (the release manager). What can be configured though is that all
> pushes to develop (from everybody, including admins) have to go through a
> PR. This would mean that the merge and release commits also has to go
> through a PR. Maybe this is a good idea anyway, since then the github ci
> checks that everything is okay (relative to the setup tests) and would
> prevent the need for these "fix the ci" commits.
>
> On Monday, 27 February 2023 at 05:54:29 UTC+8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>> Branch protection is on, but currently admins can bypass it. This can be
>> tightened in the config here if so desired:
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/settings/branch_protection_rules/33965567
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Volker Braun wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that we should turn on branch protection, it is rather easy to
>>> accidentally push to develop.
>>>
>>> Its also not ok to push what you think is a CI fix without it going to
>>> review, we had some irregularities to support the github transition but
>>> that is over now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 11:19:24 AM UTC+1 Vincent Delecroix
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I do not understand why develop isn't protected against anybody but
 the release manager pushes.

 On Sun, 26 Feb 2023 at 11:16, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
 >
 > it was a mistake on my side - I thought develop branch was broken,
 but it was not.
 >
 > On Sun, 26 Feb 2023, 10:13 Vincent Delecroix, <20100.d...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >>
 >> Hello,
 >>
 >> Why do we have commits on top of develop after the release commits?
 Namely
 >>
 >> commit 52a81cbd161ef4d5895325657c88a68590ea1d3b
 >> Author: Dima Pasechnik 
 >> Date: Fri Feb 24 21:15:42 2023 +
 >>
 >> Revert "add missing # optional - gap3"
 >>
 >> This reverts commit c017a6a3d68f0aca8cb63ceba52fe451a64881a3.
 >>
 >> commit c017a6a3d68f0aca8cb63ceba52fe451a64881a3
 >> Author: Dima Pasechnik 
 >> Date: Fri Feb 24 11:57:32 2023 +
 >>
 >> add missing # optional - gap3
 >>
 >> to let CI pass
 >>
 >> Best
 >> Vincent
 >>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Deprecation warnings

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023, 16:59 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

> this has been taken care of in PR 35015
>


Thanks, I should have guessed that this had already been dealt with.

There are a lot of PRs with positive review (maybe there always were).  Has
the release manager's job become harder?  I assume that after every merge
of a PR which passes all tests,  they have to wait for all the other PRs to
be retested.


> On Thu, 16 Feb 2023, 15:54 John Cremona,  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 15:53, John Cremona 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Deprecation warnings have a parameter which is interpreted as a trac
>>> ticket number, and output a second line after the warning text, of the form
>>>
>>> See https://trac.sagemath.org/12345 for details.
>>>
>>> Is the solution simply to replace the template for that output with a
>>> suitable GitHub issue number (or PR number if there was no issue created)?
>>>
>>
>> PS ... and then every doctest which has this output needs to be changed...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
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[sage-devel] Re: Deprecation warnings

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 15:53, John Cremona  wrote:

> Deprecation warnings have a parameter which is interpreted as a trac
> ticket number, and output a second line after the warning text, of the form
>
> See https://trac.sagemath.org/12345 for details.
>
> Is the solution simply to replace the template for that output with a
> suitable GitHub issue number (or PR number if there was no issue created)?
>

PS ... and then every doctest which has this output needs to be changed...


>
> John
>

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[sage-devel] Deprecation warnings

[John Cremona]

Deprecation warnings have a parameter which is interpreted as a trac ticket
number, and output a second line after the warning text, of the form

See https://trac.sagemath.org/12345 for details.

Is the solution simply to replace the template for that output with a
suitable GitHub issue number (or PR number if there was no issue created)?

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Issue templates

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 10:18, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> if you already have the code, a PR would do, no need for an issue, IMHO.
>

Good point.  But between some stand-alone code and properly integrating the
functionality into Sage takes time and effort (which I am now in the middle
of), and I might get distracted before finishing...


>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 9:04 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > I was about to open a new issue for work I have done which will
> implement a greatly improved method for something already implemented in
> Sage (twice, both by me...).  When you click on the button to create a new
> issue, there are three categories listed: Bug Report, Failure Building from
> Source, and Feature request -- plus a catch-all "blank issue".
> >
> > Surely my situation is common enough to warrant an additional template,
> called (say) "Improvement on existing code"?
> >
> > Also, there should be something for upgrading a dependent package.
> >
> > Meanwhile I'll use the blank issue.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --
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[sage-devel] Issue templates

[John Cremona]

I was about to open a new issue for work I have done which will implement a
greatly improved method for something already implemented in Sage (twice,
both by me...).  When you click on the button to create a new issue, there
are three categories listed: Bug Report, Failure Building from Source, and
Feature request -- plus a catch-all "blank issue".

Surely my situation is common enough to warrant an additional template,
called (say) "Improvement on existing code"?

Also, there should be something for upgrading a dependent package.

Meanwhile I'll use the blank issue.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Merging fix for github CI

[John Cremona]

Strong yes from me.

#34987 concerns a 3-line doctest where only the first has a #long time tag
thought the other lines depend on the first having been run, so causes a
failure when tested without --long.  The fix adds two # long time tags
#34964 trims some whitespace and changes "" to r""" in a few necessary
places.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 18:18, David Roe  wrote:

> Hi all,
> Currently, almost all of the PRs on github
>  aren't passing CI, and thus have
> red Xs.  The problem can be resolved by merging #34964
>  and #34987
> .  Several of us at Sage
> Days 117 propose to merge these two PRs into the develop branch on Github
> tonight, to help improve the reviewing process for everyone here, as well
> as for people who are getting used to the new Github workflow.  We don't
> anticipate this becoming a regular occurrence (it's mainly a consequence of
> the slightly different testing process on trac and github).
>
> If we hear no objections, we'll proceed in an hour and a half (8:45pm CET,
> 2:45pm EST, 11:45am PST).
> David
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Creating a github team

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 16:49, David Roe  wrote:

> In response to Eric's suggestion of having the whole team set as the
> reviewer, my main concern is that having a diffuse responsibility will make
> it more likely for tickets to slip through the cracks. If you want to
> review a ticket and someone else is assigned by the bot, I think taking
> over as reviewer would be totally acceptable.
>
> Sending notifications
> <https://github.com/marketplace/actions/issue-label-notifier> to the
> corresponding team when a component label is added is probably another
> thing that the bot could do (probably just by adding an @team comment to
> the PR).
>
> I think the standard in the open source world is to allow PRs from
> outsiders, partly as a way to draw people in.  John, what's your motivation
> for restricting to only members?
>

OK, forget that suggestion!


> David
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 5:39 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
>
>> Re David's #1:   Could we only allow PRs to be made by members?  (Or is
>> that against the spirit of open source?)  Then, a new contributor would
>> first ask to become a member, and then would be able to make a PR.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 16:29, Eric Gourgoulhon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>
>>> Le mardi 7 février 2023 à 14:33:04 UTC+1, David Roe a écrit :
>>>   4. When a component tag is added to a PR (or a new PR created with a
>>> component set), if there is no reviewer already requested then the bot will
>>> request review from someone on that component team (eventually we may
>>> refine this process based on what lines are being modified in the PR).
>>> Details on how a person is chosen are still to be worked out, but we think
>>> it's helpful to have a single person responsible rather than a large group.
>>>   5. If a reviewer declines or if a review is not given within a week
>>> (this duration can be up for discussion), the bot will request review from
>>> another member of that component team.
>>>
>>> I would rather favor a mode in which the bot sends a notification to the
>>> whole team at each tagged PR, instead of picking members one per one, so
>>> that any team member that is interested by the PR, feels competent and has
>>> the time to do the review can do it.
>>>
>>> Eric.
>>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Creating a github team

[John Cremona]

Re David's #1:   Could we only allow PRs to be made by members?  (Or is
that against the spirit of open source?)  Then, a new contributor would
first ask to become a member, and then would be able to make a PR.

John

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 16:29, Eric Gourgoulhon 
wrote:

> Thanks for your reply.
>
> Le mardi 7 février 2023 à 14:33:04 UTC+1, David Roe a écrit :
>   4. When a component tag is added to a PR (or a new PR created with a
> component set), if there is no reviewer already requested then the bot will
> request review from someone on that component team (eventually we may
> refine this process based on what lines are being modified in the PR).
> Details on how a person is chosen are still to be worked out, but we think
> it's helpful to have a single person responsible rather than a large group.
>   5. If a reviewer declines or if a review is not given within a week
> (this duration can be up for discussion), the bot will request review from
> another member of that component team.
>
> I would rather favor a mode in which the bot sends a notification to the
> whole team at each tagged PR, instead of picking members one per one, so
> that any team member that is interested by the PR, feels competent and has
> the time to do the review can do it.
>
> Eric.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: pull requests for migrated issues

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 12:31, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> don't use git://, use ssh, i.e.
> g...@github.com:sagemath/sage.git
>
> run
>
>  $ git remote remove upstream
>  $ git remote add upstream g...@github.com:sagemath/sage.git
>

Thanks Dima, that worked.



>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 12:13 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > I am unable to pull from upstream, I get a timeout:
> >
> > $ git pull upstream develop
> > fatal: unable to connect to github.com:
> > github.com[0: 140.82.121.3]: errno=Connection timed out
> >
> > I can ping the same IP address OK.  I think I have my remote set OK:
> >
> > $ git remote -v
> > origin  g...@github.com:JohnCremona/sage.git (fetch)
> > origin  g...@github.com:JohnCremona/sage.git (push)
> > upstreamgit://github.com/sagemath/sage.git (fetch)
> > upstreamgit://github.com/sagemath/sage.git (push)
> >
> > On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 12:04, Trevor Karn 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I could also not add labels.
> >>
> >> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 4:44:03 AM UTC-6 axio...@yahoo.de wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I just opened an issue (the first on github?), but I could not add
> labels either.  Perhaps the labels are deactivated for ordinary users?
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, 6 February 2023 at 10:00:52 UTC+1 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 5:47:22 PM UTC+9 Lorenz Panny wrote:
> >>>> Sorry if this is answered somewhere in the new documentation, I
> couldn't
> >>>> find it: What is the intended procedure for migrated issues which
> were in
> >>>> "needs review" state and already had a branch? Am I to push the
> branch to
> >>>> my own fork and create a fresh pull request for each such issue?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, according to the guide:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/blob/master/docs/Migration-Trac-to-Github.md#for-contributing-a-change-that-addresses-an-existing-open-issue-that-has-been-migrated-from-trac
> >>>>
> >>>>  But the procedure is not smooth yet. I could not add labels to
> >>>>
> >>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/34960
> >>
> >> --
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> >
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: pull requests for migrated issues

[John Cremona]

I am unable to pull from upstream, I get a timeout:

$ git pull upstream develop
fatal: unable to connect to github.com:
github.com[0: 140.82.121.3]: errno=Connection timed out

I can ping the same IP address OK.  I think I have my remote set OK:

$ git remote -v
origin  g...@github.com:JohnCremona/sage.git (fetch)
origin  g...@github.com:JohnCremona/sage.git (push)
upstreamgit://github.com/sagemath/sage.git (fetch)
upstreamgit://github.com/sagemath/sage.git (push)

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 12:04, Trevor Karn  wrote:

> I could also not add labels.
>
> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 4:44:03 AM UTC-6 axio...@yahoo.de wrote:
>
>> I just opened an issue (the first on github?), but I could not add labels
>> either.  Perhaps the labels are deactivated for ordinary users?
>>
>> On Monday, 6 February 2023 at 10:00:52 UTC+1 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 5:47:22 PM UTC+9 Lorenz Panny wrote:
>>> Sorry if this is answered somewhere in the new documentation, I couldn't
>>> find it: What is the intended procedure for migrated issues which were
>>> in
>>> "needs review" state and already had a branch? Am I to push the branch
>>> to
>>> my own fork and create a fresh pull request for each such issue?
>>>
>>> Yes, according to the guide:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/blob/master/docs/Migration-Trac-to-Github.md#for-contributing-a-change-that-addresses-an-existing-open-issue-that-has-been-migrated-from-trac
>>>
>>>  But the procedure is not smooth yet. I could not add labels to
>>>
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/34960
>>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Migrated repo ready for review on GitHub.com

[John Cremona]

Nathan Cohen stopped contributing to Sage definitively around the time
William started SageMathCloud (now cocalc) as he thought that William was
profiting from his work.

I couldn't find any posts from him since 2013.

John

On Sat, 4 Feb 2023, 16:29 Matthias Koeppe,  wrote:

> On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 8:09:15 AM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> There is no reason for "real" github accounts to be marked as mannequins.
>
> No, you are mistaken.
>
> An org can only create issues & comments in the name of its members, not
> arbitrary GitHub users.
> Which is why the invites had to be sent out and accepted.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[John Cremona]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 11:15, Kwankyu Lee  wrote:

> Again. Sorry.


Never mind, it is not that important.

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[sage-devel] Colours

[John Cremona]

A few people who post to this list have their email configured so that
quoted text is in a different colour, instead of having quoted text
prefixed by > or similar.

I am partly colourblind and this confuses me as I literally cannot see that
some text is in a different colour (for some combinations, e.g. I cannot
see red text as different from black).

So I, at least, would welcome it if this system was not used.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: MIgration to GitHub: Heads-up on org invitations

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 09:55 Matthias Koeppe,  wrote:

> I think in general the SageMath organization will welcome public
> visibility of membership, but in the end it is merely a matter of
> individual contributors' personal preference whether to display SageMath
> org membership to the public.
>

OK, I  made myself public (and noticed that the other members revealed by
searching on John all seem to be private).



>
> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 12:34:23 AM UTC-8 john.c...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> In case anyone else was caught out as I was following links in this
>> thread -- I am a member (and apparently have been for some time) but my
>> membership is for some reason private, so I don't see myself in the list
>> unless I am logged in to github.
>>
>> Is there any reason I (or anyone) would need to be a private member?  If
>> not I'll switch it to public.
>>
>> John (JohnCremona on github)
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 at 02:58, Matthias Koeppe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, that's good to know, thanks!
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:44:13 PM UTC-8 isu...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Just wanted to mention that the invitation can be found at
 https://github.com/orgs/sagemath/invitation if you didn't
 get an email.

 Isuru

 On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 8:37 PM Matthias Koeppe 
 wrote:

> All invitations have now been sent out.
>
> Right now we have 180 members and 590 outstanding invitations.
>
> If you aren't already an org member (check
> https://github.com/orgs/sagemath/people) and haven't received an
> invitation, please check that the email address that you have on file with
> GitHub.com is current. This is also a good opportunity to check that the
> email addresses that you use / have used for git commits are known to
> GitHub as secondary email addresses. Then your commits will be counted in
> the repository contribution statistics.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:23:16 PM UTC-8 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>
>> I received the invitation an hour ago. It worked great!
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: MIgration to GitHub: Heads-up on org invitations

[John Cremona]

In case anyone else was caught out as I was following links in this thread
-- I am a member (and apparently have been for some time) but my membership
is for some reason private, so I don't see myself in the list unless I am
logged in to github.

Is there any reason I (or anyone) would need to be a private member?  If
not I'll switch it to public.

John (JohnCremona on github)

On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 at 02:58, Matthias Koeppe 
wrote:

> Ah, that's good to know, thanks!
>
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:44:13 PM UTC-8 isu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Just wanted to mention that the invitation can be found at
>> https://github.com/orgs/sagemath/invitation if you didn't
>> get an email.
>>
>> Isuru
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 8:37 PM Matthias Koeppe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> All invitations have now been sent out.
>>>
>>> Right now we have 180 members and 590 outstanding invitations.
>>>
>>> If you aren't already an org member (check
>>> https://github.com/orgs/sagemath/people) and haven't received an
>>> invitation, please check that the email address that you have on file with
>>> GitHub.com is current. This is also a good opportunity to check that the
>>> email addresses that you use / have used for git commits are known to
>>> GitHub as secondary email addresses. Then your commits will be counted in
>>> the repository contribution statistics.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:23:16 PM UTC-8 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>>>
 I received the invitation an hour ago. It worked great!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
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Re: URGENT: Re: [sage-devel] Jan 30 to Feb 4: Trac downtime, migration to GitHub

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2023, 16:02 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

> Could someone with a "legacy" trac account quickly check whether they
> can modify tickets. (me and mkoeppe are still able, but that's the
> current setup)
>

I could not login, the username cremona and my password were deemed invalid.

John



> Thanks much
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 3:35 PM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:49 PM Eric Gourgoulhon 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Le lundi 30 janvier 2023 à 15:07:36 UTC+1, dim...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > > OK, it should be read-only now (for pushing, ticket
> > > creating/modifying, other state-changing admin)
> > >
> > > Thank you Dima!
> > >
> > > Logins still work though, but they have no effect on anything, as far
> > > as I can see.
> > >
> > > Please let me know if for some reason you still can modify things!
> > >
> > >
> > > It seems that, once logged in, one can still modify a ticket comment,
> see
> > > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30525#comment:106
> > >
> >
> > hmm. Could you try now?
> > (I've rebooted the server, it might have helped...)
> >
> > (sorry, I only tested with gh-*- accounts, they did look  readonly.)
> >
> >
> > > Eric.
> > >
> > > --
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Re: [sage-devel] Any emacs users?

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 13:17, 'Martin R' via sage-devel <
sage-devel@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Because sage 9.8.beta7 (more specifically, #34547) breaks emacs'
> sage-shell-mode, I would like to know whether there are any other emacs
> users out there.  Are there alternatives to sage-shell-mode?
>

I use emacs all the time, but never to run Sage.  I never saw the point.  I
either edit text files (inemacs) and load them with %runfile, and/or use a
notebook.So I cannot help, sorry.

John



>
> Best wishes,
>
> Martin
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Final call for GitHub user names

[John Cremona]

I think there are many trac names whose real names are known (I saw
several) but either do not have github accounts or are no longer active in
Sage development.   What should the policy be about those?  If someone made
a trac account without registering their full name, I am not sure that it
is right for a 3rd party to later supply that real name.

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 at 05:24, Matthias Koeppe 
wrote:

> Thanks, Alex and John.
> I've taken care of these (and other typos that I have spotted) in
> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/commit/1f2fc7f834cd7d9992e9f8c96cc09cb2d62dc655
> and
> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/commit/ac5f68a07f6a40359d3b1de4feba6ad5a7c5fee9
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 7:36:47 PM UTC-8 AlexGhitza wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> There seems to be a lone instance of "aghitza" that's orphaned.  The
>> corresponding trac username is "AlexGhitza", and the github username is
>> "aghitza".
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Alex
>>
>> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 1:14:16 PM UTC+11 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Dear readers,
>>>
>>> Attached unmapped_users.pdf is the list of usernames encountered in the
>>> preparation of the migration from Trac to GitHub, *with no
>>> corresponding GitHub user name*. We are planning to create mannequin
>>> GitHub ids (connected with no real GitHub user) for the usernames in the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> *Check the list and if you are the owner of the username or know the
>>> owner, then please inform us here about the owner (full name or Trac
>>> username) and, if known, his/her GitHub user name.*
>>>
>>> - username: possibly misspelled or non-human
>>> - known on trac: True if username belongs to a valid Trac account; False
>>> otherwise
>>> - mention:: True if username is mentioned in a ticket comment
>>> - mention: False if username is found as reporter, owner, author, or in
>>> cc of a ticket
>>> - mannequin: planned mannequin id
>>> - frequency: number of appearance times in Trac
>>>
>>> For more information, visit
>>> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/issues/77
>>>
>> --
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Please inspect: Migrated Trac tickets on our temporary GitHub server

[John Cremona]

Thanks Matthias for the detailed replies.  I, and I'm sure all other sage
developers, are extremely grateful for the work you and the others have
done for this migration.

John

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, 19:23 Matthias Koeppe, 
wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:10:24 AM UTC-8 john.c...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> one cannot tell without following the link whether the other ticket is
> closed.  This is important for other tickets which are dependencies.
>
> For the case of dependencies, there is a discussion in
> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/issues/78 with some pointers
> to bots (GH Actions workflows) that would keep track of which declared
> dependencies are still open. I have chosen the format in which the
> dependencies appear in the migrated ticket in a way that is compatible with
> the major candidates for such workflows.
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Please inspect: Migrated Trac tickets on our temporary GitHub server

[John Cremona]

I have spent some time inspecting the (provisionally) migrated tickets, and
it all looks very good.  One small thing struck me: the cross-referencing
to other tickets works fine (ticket/issue numbers preceded by "#" are links
to the other ticket/issue), but one cannot tell without following the link
whether the other ticket is closed.  This is important for other tickets
which are dependencies.  On trac, these were displayed with a
strike-through.  Is it possible to do the same, or automatically  append "
(closed)" after a link to another closed ticket?  Or will this be
unnecessary once github does its usual thing when tickets are
cross-referenced?

Also, I think it is fine to have many different labels for issues, as we
have many components.  But why was it thought necessary to have all the
component labels start with "component:"?  That seems redundant. It does
mean that all the components come almost first in the list of labels ("bug"
is at the top which is fine), with the dozen or so non-component labels
other than bug all at the bottom of the list.  If we could prefix all the
non-component labels instead with something very small which was allowed by
GitHub and which made them all come first, then we could remove the
"component:" prefix from the majority.

Is it possible for us to try out creating a new (dummy) issue on the mock
GitHub site, to try out the interface? Obviously any issues created there
now will be lost at the next iteration.

John

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 16:09, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> >
> > I don't know. Perhaps Matthias changed something in the setup of the
> repos.
>
> I doubt it's some sort of metadata poisoning that happened in the
> latest iteration so that the search broke - it's probably general
> flakiness of setup.
> We can, potentially, ask GitHub support for help.
> However, the Enterprise Server version we're using is not the very
> latest - but I don't want more hours of banging my head on the
> keyboard to upgrade it to the next minor version (as they'd probably
> 1st thing ask for such an update...)
>
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 3:26 PM Aram Dermenjian <> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Dima,
> > >
> > > I'm confused by what you mean by "The search on issues is currently
> not working, but it's probably a limitation of
> > > our trial setup."
> > >
> > > When I tried the search on the earlier version it was working fine,
> but it's not working on this new version.
> > >
> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-12-003/issues?q=34782+
> > > vs
> > >
> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues?q=34782+
> > >
> > > -Aram
> > >
> > > On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 11:56, Dima Pasechnik 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 9:07 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 07:45, Matthias Koeppe <
> matthiaskoe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Next iteration:
> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues
> > >> >> with much improved labels
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > The label component: elliptic curves is empty, which does not seem
> right.  On trac there are 64 open elliptic curve tickets.  One currently
> active example is #34782.  What is the best way to look for the new issue
> corresponding to a trac ticket number?
> > >> >
> > >> > Currently the only authors on issues are Dima and Matthias.
> > >>
> > >> No, why? See e.g.
> > >> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues/21093
> > >> (author: you, John :-))
> > >> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues/34898
> > >> (author: fchapoton)
> > >> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues/34905
> > >> (author: tscrim)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Will it be possible to make the issue authors match the ticket
> creator on trac?
> > >> the plan is that for everybody with a github account the trac tickets
> > >> acct names are mapped to
> > >> these account names. For the rest, they are mapped to some aliases.
> > >>
> > >> The search on issues is currently not working, but it's probably a
> limitation of
> > >> our trial setup.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Please inspect: Migrated Trac tickets on our temporary GitHub server

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 12:35, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 12:22 PM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Dima.  I do now see 64 issues when I first view all issues and
> then filter on that, so I don't know what was happening earlier.
> >
> > As for authors: when I am looking at all issues and then click on the
> "author" tab, there are only 2 authors in the drop-down list.
>
> that's probably because on the trial server only mkoeppe and dimpase
> are active accounts.
> As you see from individual issues, it's OK there.
>
> Also, try in the issue's Filters tab to enter
>
>   is:open is:issue author:JohnCremona
>
> This gives me 9 open and 248 closed issues.
>

Yes!  I was wrongly looking for my old trac id (cremona).

This all looks excellent to me, I am looking forward to the change.


>
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Please inspect: Migrated Trac tickets on our temporary GitHub server

[John Cremona]

Thanks, Dima.  I do now see 64 issues when I first view all issues and then
filter on that, so I don't know what was happening earlier.

As for authors: when I am looking at all issues and then click on the
"author" tab, there are only 2 authors in the drop-down list.

John

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 11:59, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 9:07 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 07:45, Matthias Koeppe 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Next iteration:
> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues
> >> with much improved labels
> >
> >
> > The label component: elliptic curves is empty, which does not seem
> right.  On trac there are 64 open elliptic curve tickets.  One currently
> active example is #34782.  What is the best way to look for the new issue
> corresponding to a trac ticket number?
>
> Please re-check. Clicking on "elliptic curves" label gives me
>
>
> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/labels/component%3A%20elliptic%20curves
>
> with 64 open tickets, and 410 closed.
>
> --
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>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Please inspect: Migrated Trac tickets on our temporary GitHub server

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 07:45, Matthias Koeppe 
wrote:

> Next iteration:
> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-14-004/issues
> with much improved labels
>

The label component: elliptic curves is empty, which does not seem right.
On trac there are 64 open elliptic curve tickets.  One currently active
example is #34782.  What is the best way to look for the new issue
corresponding to a trac ticket number?

Currently the only authors on issues are Dima and Matthias.  Will it be
possible to make the issue authors match the ticket creator on trac?

John


>
>
> On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 11:26:50 AM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>> We have just completed the first full trial migration of all ~35000 open
>> and closed Trac tickets (as of late December) into a temporary GitHub
>> Enterprise Server instance.
>>
>> Please take a look at:
>> https://34.105.185.241/sagemath/sage-all-2023-01-12-003/issues
>> (accepting the self-signed server certificate)
>>
>> The README of https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github explains some
>> of the principles of the migration. It takes about 12 hours to get all data
>> from Trac and to write a migration archive, and then about 20 hours to
>> import it into our server. In the final migration (planned for Feb 1), our
>> contact at GitHub.com will import a freshly generated migration archive
>> into GitHub.com, and we will take down our temporary GitHub Enterprise
>> Server instance.
>>
>> Questions regarding the migration are very welcome. Please report any
>> errors or wishlist items regarding the conversion here or at
>> https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/issues
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [sage-devel] sage is slowding down PARI/GP by factor x2 (roughly)

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 12:19, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 12:05 PM John Cremona  wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 12:00, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 9:30 AM Vincent Delecroix
> > > <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 01:42, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 14 Dec 2022, 21:06 Vincent Delecroix, 
> > > > > <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Note that in #34850 I execute the very same command, namely
> > > > >> pari("quadclassunit(1 - 2^100)"), once in a fresh python session and
> > > > >> once preceeded by "import sage.all". So whatever linking and whatever
> > > > >> threading option has been used to compile pari these are the same for
> > > > >> both executions.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > oops, sorry, I was too quick. I guess here it is a change in memory 
> > > > > layout that causes the slowdown.
> > > >
> > > > I don't quite believe it. The PARI/GP stack is allocated before the
> > > > `import sage.all` and is not affected by this call. What kind of
> > > > change in memory could cause the slowdown here?
> > >
> > > It's caused by changes in FPU status, or something like this (the
> > > latter happened at least once earlier on in Sage, was caused by a
> > > clang bug, in fact). This time, it is  caused by sympy.
> > >
> > > If you replace
> > >
> > > import sage.all
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > import sympy
> > >
> > > you'll get the same slowdown...
> > >
> > > You guys should invite me to Luminy and buy me a beer there ;-)
> >
> > A propos, which Sage developers will be in Luminy for the COUNT
> > meeting?  I will.
> >
> I'm still waiting to hear from them. Or perhaps they don't notify
> people who haven't made it on the list, I have no idea.
> I should form a 1-person union and declare myself on strike w.r.t.,
> quoting their announcement,  "informal collaboration and for coding
> projects related to PARI/GP, SageMath,..." :-)

I only had confirmation a day or two ago, they are working through the
applicants.  It may help that one of the organisers was my postdoc for
3 years...

>
> Dima
>
> > John
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > You also mention that it might be ipython - can this be tested by 
> > > > > building Sage without it?
> > > >
> > > > I meant the base kernel from ipython that would be responsible for the
> > > > slowdown in pari_jupyter. That is just a supposition.
> > >
> > > This one I can rule out - I ran your tests in iPython shell, with
> > > basically the same results, so no, iPython has
> > > an alibi. I also tried cProfile, to see if there are  extra things
> > > executed for some reason
> > > if sage.all is imported - but no, it's a genuine Pari slowdown.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >> In particular, I do not see any relations between
> > > > >> #31572 (which tests two pari versions) and #34850 (which tests a
> > > > >> single pari version). Could you either read carefully the description
> > > > >> of #34850 or explain the link between #31572 and #34850 if any?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 at 21:58, Dima Pasechnik  
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Does #31572 actually mean that pari threads are more harmful than 
> > > > >> > useful?
> > > > >> > If so, perhaps, we can create a special multithreaded, 
> > > > >> > differerently
> > > > >> > named, libpari for giac, and
> > > > >> > build our "main" libpari single-threaded?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Dima
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:38 PM David Roe  
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > 

Re: [sage-devel] sage is slowding down PARI/GP by factor x2 (roughly)

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 12:00, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 9:30 AM Vincent Delecroix
> <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 01:42, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 14 Dec 2022, 21:06 Vincent Delecroix, <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> 
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Note that in #34850 I execute the very same command, namely
> > >> pari("quadclassunit(1 - 2^100)"), once in a fresh python session and
> > >> once preceeded by "import sage.all". So whatever linking and whatever
> > >> threading option has been used to compile pari these are the same for
> > >> both executions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > oops, sorry, I was too quick. I guess here it is a change in memory 
> > > layout that causes the slowdown.
> >
> > I don't quite believe it. The PARI/GP stack is allocated before the
> > `import sage.all` and is not affected by this call. What kind of
> > change in memory could cause the slowdown here?
>
> It's caused by changes in FPU status, or something like this (the
> latter happened at least once earlier on in Sage, was caused by a
> clang bug, in fact). This time, it is  caused by sympy.
>
> If you replace
>
> import sage.all
>
> with
>
> import sympy
>
> you'll get the same slowdown...
>
> You guys should invite me to Luminy and buy me a beer there ;-)

A propos, which Sage developers will be in Luminy for the COUNT
meeting?  I will.

John

>
>
>
>
> >
> > > You also mention that it might be ipython - can this be tested by 
> > > building Sage without it?
> >
> > I meant the base kernel from ipython that would be responsible for the
> > slowdown in pari_jupyter. That is just a supposition.
>
> This one I can rule out - I ran your tests in iPython shell, with
> basically the same results, so no, iPython has
> an alibi. I also tried cProfile, to see if there are  extra things
> executed for some reason
> if sage.all is imported - but no, it's a genuine Pari slowdown.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > >> In particular, I do not see any relations between
> > >> #31572 (which tests two pari versions) and #34850 (which tests a
> > >> single pari version). Could you either read carefully the description
> > >> of #34850 or explain the link between #31572 and #34850 if any?
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 at 21:58, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Does #31572 actually mean that pari threads are more harmful than 
> > >> > useful?
> > >> > If so, perhaps, we can create a special multithreaded, differerently
> > >> > named, libpari for giac, and
> > >> > build our "main" libpari single-threaded?
> > >> >
> > >> > Dima
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:38 PM David Roe  wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > It could be related to #31572, which notes a dramatic speed 
> > >> > > regression based on pari being compiled with pthread.
> > >> > > David
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 3:30 PM Dima Pasechnik  
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> I vaguely recall something about the way gp is built, without 
> > >> > >> linking libpari dynamically, and something about gp getting slower 
> > >> > >> if built with threads.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> So, probably, more info is needed on how exactly your comparisons 
> > >> > >> are done, in regard of using, or not, threads, and dynamic linking.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022, 20:23 Vincent Delecroix, 
> > >> > >> <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Dear all,
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Some strange phenomenon makes execution of PARI/GP up to twice 
> > >> > >>> slower
> > >> > >>> when ran inside a Python process compared to its execution in GP.
> > >> > >>> Though this is not systematic, in a fresh python environment timing
> > >> > >>> are comparable with GP.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> The slowdown has been first observed in the context of pari_jupyter
> > >> > >>> [1] and then with cypari2 when sage.all is loaded [2]. There is a
> > >> > >>> short code snippet in the description of [2] that you can try on 
> > >> > >>> your
> > >> > >>> own sage version (must be ran with "sage -python" and not "sage").
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Any idea on what could be the source of the slowdown or some 
> > >> > >>> profiling
> > >> > >>> advices would be very welcome.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> [1] https://github.com/sagemath/pari-jupyter/issues/27
> > >> > >>> [2] https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34850
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Best
> > >> > >>> Vincent
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> --
> > >> > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> > >> > >>> Groups "sage-devel" group.
> > >> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> > >> > >>> send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > >> > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > >> > >>> 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: polynomial coefficients -- sparse=True default -- why?

[John Cremona]

My suggestion was only for univariate polynomials.  I am certainly not
proposing this for multivariate polynomials.  I still cannot think of
a use case for the current default for univariate polynomials. (And,
more than one person has complained to me about this "very annoying
and incomprehensible" behaviour.)

John

On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 21:10, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
> Could it be it's the same default for univariate and multivariate cases? In 
> the latter case, it's easier to blow off memory usage to store zeros...
>
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, 21:06 David Ayotte,  wrote:
>>
>> I agree with this suggestion. Whenever I am looking for the coefficients of 
>> a polynomial, I also use the option "sparse=False" as this gives me indirect 
>> information about the degree of each associated monomial. In fact, I 
>> remember being a bit confused when I first used this method.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> David A.
>>
>> Le mercredi 19 octobre 2022 à 12:34:59 UTC-4, john.c...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>
>>> Does anyone ever use pol.coefficients() and not
>>> pol.coefficients(sparse=False)? I mean, why is the default option
>>> sparse=True? There must be very few occasions for the default,and I
>>> get tired of typing sparse=False I do know that pol.list() is the
>>> same as pol.coefficients(sparse=False).
>>>
>>> I would be happy to propose changing the default, with an appropriate
>>> depreciation warning for the usual period.
>>>
>>> John
>>
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[sage-devel] polynomial coefficients -- sparse=True default -- why?

[John Cremona]

Does anyone ever use pol.coefficients() and not
pol.coefficients(sparse=False)?  I mean, why is the default option
sparse=True?  There must be very few occasions for the default,and I
get tired of typing sparse=False  I do know that pol.list() is the
same as pol.coefficients(sparse=False).

I would be happy to propose changing the default, with an appropriate
depreciation warning for the usual period.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: is it intentional that prod does not stop when it hits 0?

[John Cremona]

If you really have a list and not just a generator, might it be worth
a first pass to see if there's a 0 in the list before forming the
product?  With the tree structure for efficiently computing the
product, you might be doing a lot of multiplication before hitting the
zero item.  I think that all(L) will be True if and only if L contains
a zero.

John

On Fri, 23 Sept 2022 at 09:11, chris wuthrich
 wrote:
>
> Handling with try and check would be bad, but even in general this is an idea 
> that may not be what we want. For instance there are cases where the product 
> is interesting even if it "is zero".
>
> sage: x = Qp(5,10)(0)
> sage: y = x.add_bigoh(5)
> sage: not x, not y
> (True, True)
> sage: x * 5, y * 5
> (0, O(5^6))
>
> Chris
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: PARI/GP upgrade to 2.15

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 22 Sept 2022, 19:21 Antonio Rojas,  wrote:

> Specifically, help is needed from someone who understands genus2reduction
> code in order to solve the (almost) last remaining issue.
>

I'll take a look tomorrow.

John


> El jueves, 15 de septiembre de 2022 a las 20:58:19 UTC+2, vdelecroix
> escribió:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> The PARI/GP team is about to release a new version. I opened a ticket
>> for that purpose at https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34537. It went
>> relatively smoothly with respect to building. However there are a lot
>> of doctest failures in a lot of different files that I am not familiar
>> about. Some of them involves the fact that they introduced a new LLL
>> implementation. The list of failures appears in comment:5 on the
>> ticket. Any help on understanding/fixing them would be appreciated.
>>
>> Best
>> Vincent
>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: VOTE: move Sage development to Github

[John Cremona]

+1 for GitHub

On Wed, 21 Sept 2022, 20:56 Ricardo Buring, 
wrote:

> +1 for GitHub
>
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 7:23:36 PM UTC+2 David Roe wrote:
>
>> Dear Sage developers,
>> Following extensive discussion, both recently
>>  
>> (prompted
>> by issues upgrading the trac server) and over
>>  the
>> 
>> last
>> 
>> decade
>> ,
>> we are calling a vote on switching Sage development from Trac
>>  to Github .  We've
>> created a summary of the pros and cons of each system
>> , a 
>> description
>> of the development model to be used on github
>> ,
>> and a trac ticket  for
>> coordinating work on the transition.  More work will need to be done to
>> carry out the actual transition once voting is complete.
>>
>> The voting will last until noon Eastern time (16:00 UTC) on Wednesday,
>> October 5.  Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it
>> easier to count them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can
>> make arguments in favor of either system.
>>
>> Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and
>> discussion even if you are not a core Sage developer.  By definition, core
>> Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I think that one of
>> the major arguments in favor of github is that it will help bring in new
>> contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development workfow
>> .  Anyone who has
>> ever contributed to the Sage code base or who maintains a Sage user package
>> is welcome to vote.
>> David
>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[John Cremona]

GH issues can also be used as "metatickets" on trac, with a checklist of
things to do which can be checked off as they are dealt with by various
PRs.   We often do this with the LMFDB whose code development is done on GH
via issues and PRs as described by others here.  We have fewer developers
of course, and a few people (more than one but we'll under 10) who can
merge PRs into the develop branch once all the unit tests etc pass.

On Wed, 14 Sept 2022, 09:58 Tobias Diez,  wrote:

> I think we need also another branch "merge-queue" which serves as the
> target for pull requests, with branch protection rules linear history,
> require positive review and checks.
>
> Also "Release Manager @vbraun merges positively reviewed tickets into his
> branch https://github.com/vbraun/sage; should then be replaced by
> "Release Manager @vbraun merges positively reviewed tickets into the branch
> merge-queue". You cannot really "merge" pull requests against one repo into
> another one.
>
> Moreover, I propose to realize "To make a beta or stable release, Release
> Manager merges (fast-forward) his branch into the develop branch and
> creates a tag" by a pull-request from "merge-queue" into "develop". This PR
> could then trigger the corresponding github action checks that should pass
> before a beta is released.
>
> On Wednesday, 14 September 2022 at 07:50:48 UTC+2 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:26:04 PM UTC-7 David Roe wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding from the 
>>> allowing-changes-to-a-pull-request-branch-created-from-a-fork
>>> documentation
>>> 
>>>  is
>>> that only users who have push permission on the repository will be able to
>>> make edits to a pull request.  I think the consequence is that we want
>>> active Sage developers to have Write access
>>> 
>>> to the repository, and then use branch protection rules
>>> 
>>> on develop and master.
>>>


>> Yes, please take a look at
>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/migration-from-trac-to-Git**b#proposed-permissions-and-protections,
>> where I have started to write something like this.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [sagemath-admins] Fwd: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[John Cremona]

To me, as a contributor of code to Sage who has not contributed at all
to the backend support, it seems that there is a clear majority in
favour of moving to github.  As an ordinary developer I would be very
happy with that.

It looks to me as if Frédéric's main issue with github is his final
point "...We should rather not bow under the power of large
private companies.".  I don't know enough about gitlab to know if it
is a sensible alternative, but I myself have no problem with using
github for this, as I do for just about everything else.

John

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 15:10, Thierry  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> let me forward the email of Frédéric as a whole, so that the thread remains
> complete.
>
> - Forwarded message from Frédéric Chapoton  -
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:15:25 +0200
> From: Frédéric Chapoton
> To: sagemath-adm...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sagemath-admins] Fwd: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration
> to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac
>
> Dear sage developers and maintainers,
>
> Whereas I agree that we currently have two issues, I do not agree on the
> necessity to switch to github and certainly not urgently.
>
> * The first issue is the cost of google compute engine. This is under
> investigation and can be lowered by creating a new project. This should be
> do-able and could save us 3 $ per day.
> * The second issue is about new users entering new ssh keys. There is hope
> to fix that and in the mean-time one could ask new users to send sshkeys to
> some of us.
>
> My own preference would be to go on using trac, for some years, as this is
> serving us quite well. We should not change this for superficial and
> temporary reasons.
>
> The serious reasons that I see are : money and the futre of the trac
> software itself.
>
> In my opinion, money is the only serious issue, and I would like to see
> trac heberged by some university. There are already several services in
> France, so another country would be better. Germany ? Somebody must step
> forward.
>
> About the trac software, it now has a python3-compatible version, available
> on most linux distributions. We should aim to use that. Once done, the
> situation will be stable.
>
> As a side matter, it seems to me that gitlab is much more in the spirit of
> open source software. We should rather not bow under the power of large
> private companies.
>
> Frédéric
>
> -
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 12:15:13PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 11:15 AM Frédéric Chapoton  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear sage developers and maintainers,
> > >
> > > Whereas I agree that we currently have two issues, I do not agree on the 
> > > necessity to switch to github and certainly not urgently.
> >
> > it is a disaster that new people can't come aboard easily. It really is 
> > urgent.
> > A convoluted system to get new developers onboard and contributing is
> > a very bad omen for open-source projects, it really is.
> >
> > E.g. try to contribute to something like OpenBSD - I'd sure most
> > potentail contributors  run away screaming,
> > upon learning that they must use CVS and e-mail patches around for approval.
> >
> > >
> > > * The first issue is the cost of google compute engine. This is under 
> > > investigation and can be lowered by creating a new project. This should 
> > > be do-able and could save us 3 $ per day.
> >
> > but this is far from free, still, and hosting prices are to go with
> > the energy prices, up and up.
> > It's really spending money on a questionable luxury, instead of
> > something useful.
> >
> > > * The second issue is about new users entering new ssh keys. There is 
> > > hope to fix that and in the mean-time one could ask new users to send 
> > > sshkeys to some of us.
> > >
> > > My own preference would be to go on using trac, for some years, as this 
> > > is serving us quite well. We should not change this for superficial and 
> > > temporary reasons.
> >
> > the reasons are not supreficial, in particular, trac+gitolite software
> > is obsolete.
> > I cannot imagine a new project that would choose it as a platform.
> >
> > >
> > > The serious reasons that I see are : money and the futre of the trac 
> > > software itself.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, money is the only serious issue, and I would like to see 
> > > trac heberged by some university. There are already several services in 
> > > France, so another country would be better. Germany ? Somebody must step 
> > > forward.
> > >
> > > About the trac software, it now has a python3-compatible version, 
> > > available on most linux distributions. We should aim to use that. Once 
> > > done, the situation will be stable.
> >
> > Why do you think so? The bus factors of trac and gitolite software are
> > very, very small.
> > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor)
> > As well as the bus factor for our trac instance.
> >
> > >
> > > As a side matter, it seems to me that gitlab is much more 

Re: [sage-devel] Purpose of some of the files in .sage

[John Cremona]

Whenever a pexpect interface is created, there's an optional parameter to
say whether or not to make a log file. The default should always be not to
do so. So we should look to see which ones may have the opposite default.
It may be something left over from a debugging session which got committed
by mistake.

John

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022, 01:30 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2022, 01:11 John H Palmieri, 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 4:02:05 PM UTC-7 dim...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022, 23:47 John H Palmieri,  wrote:
>>>
 What is the purpose of

 - $HOME/.sage/gap
 - $HOME/.sage/pexpect_logs
 - $HOME/.sage/cache

 ?

 The first one currently takes 1.5GB on my machine, and it has a
 README.txt file that says "It is OK to delete all these cache files.  They
 will be recreated as needed." So why do we keep them at all?

>>>
>>> these are gap and libgap workspaces. Their presence makes loading gap
>>> and libgap much faster.
>>>
>>
>> How many do we need to keep? Are they all used, or just the recent ones?
>>
>>
> one for gap, one for libgap (IIRC, only the current ones are kept).
>
>
>
>>>
 The second one takes 195MB on my machine, with almost 20,000 small
 files. What are they for?

>>>
>>> these are, well, pexpect logs. Good for debugging I guess.
>>>
>>
>> Right, so should they only be kept when someone issues a command to
>> assist with debugging? I honestly don't see the value in keeping pexpect
>> logs from two weeks ago, let alone two years ago. Should the ones created
>> by doctesting be stored in SAGE_ROOT rather than DOTSAGE? Should we
>> implement a cleaning procedure, and perhaps even have Sage every now and
>> then say, "It's been a while since you've run './sage --clean-dotsage'; run
>> it now?"
>>
>>
 The third one contains lots of very small files.

 For all of these: why do we keep the files by default? There is
 presumably some benefit to keeping them, but also some cost. How do the
 cost and the benefit compare?

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: LazyPowerSeriesRing Replacement

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 at 08:21, Kwankyu Lee  wrote:
>
> If LazyTaylorSeriesRing could be a complete replacement of 
> LazyPowerSeriesRing, then I think we should remove the old LazyPowerSeriesRing
> and rename LazyTaylorSeriesRing to LazyPowerSeriesRing. Do you mean this?
>
> Mathematically, Taylor series means power series derived from a function. So 
> aTaylor series is always attached to a function. The name 
> LazyTaylorSeriesRing seems a misnomer.

I agree with all these points!

John

>
>
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Polling for sphinx background style

[John Cremona]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 at 10:06, Eric Gourgoulhon  wrote:
>
> grayish > detoned > original.

I have no strong opinion on this choice!

John

>
> Eric.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Proposal: make Furo a standard package

[John Cremona]

Yes, please at least (1) turn off the italics for  output, and (2)
don't put numbers in the input in a different colour.

For such a change I think it is appropriate and would follow precedent
to put up at least two different possible themes and ask people on
sage-devel to vote.

John

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 08:01, Kwankyu Lee  wrote:
>
>
>> Is it your personal decision to use tango for the (future) sage 
>> documentation?
>
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> As a very personal opinion, I prefer better the default style.
>>
>> Note that tango is a style with lower contrast which is another argument 
>> against it.
>
>
> Okay. As far as I know, currently these are preliminary candidates for 
> preferred pygments style: "default", "sphinx", and "tango". There may be more.
>
> I do not insist my choice, and we can change this choice whenever we want. 
> Open a ticket later. So please let us not discuss this issue now.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Return "type" of the `logarithmic_embedding` function

[John Cremona]

I forwarded this to sage-nt in case there are people there with an opinion.
I'll give my answer there too.

Thanks for working on  this,

John

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022, 10:49 Jing Guo,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am implementing the `logarithmic_embedding` function [0] (based on
> Krumm's code) for my GSoC project, which is used for implementing
> `points_of_bounded_height` function [1].
>
> However, we encounter the following problem:
>
> By definition (Def. 4.9.6, on page 208 of "A course in computational
> algebraic number theory"), the logarithmic embedding is a map from number
> field K to R^n. We are not sure how this function should return, and we
> consider two options:
>
> 1. The function returns a function closure, see examples in [2]
>
> 2. It returns a morphism, which is more mathematically correct:
>
> V = VectorSpace(RR, 1)
> K = CyclotomicField(3)
> B = Hom(K, V, category=Sets())
> phi = B(log_map)
> phi
>
> Which one do you think is better from math and software engineering
> perspectives? Are there any other approaches that would be better for this
> case?
>
> Thank you.
>
> [0]: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34212
> [1]: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/32686
> [2]:
> https://git.sagemath.org/sage.git/diff?id=8129e332b20c8cd73b50f2e1d48222e7a706ba21
>
> Jing
>
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> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: System upgrades breaking sage frequently

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 at 08:13, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 8:24 AM Nils Bruin  wrote:
> >
> > On Monday, 25 July 2022 at 12:53:08 UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> >>
> >> Have you tried the existing instructions that I pointed you to?
> >
> >
> > I have now. I'm stuck on running configure.
> >
> >  * the ./configure command suggested doesn't work in my bash. I'm getting:
> >  bash: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `)'
> >
> > Instead I split it up a bit:
> > $ for pkg in $(./sage -package list :standard: \
> >--has-file spkg-configure.m4  \
> >--has-file distros/conda.txt); do
> >  echo --with-system-$pkg=force; done > with
> > $ ./configure --with-python=$CONDA_PREFIX/bin/python --prefix=$CONDA_PREFIX 
> >  `cat with`
> > That seemed to succeed in running configure, but resulted in an error:
> > configure: error:
> >
> > Given --with-system-eclib=force, but no system package could be used.
> > That's an error.  Please install the indicated package to continue.
> > (To override this error, use ./configure --without-system-eclib)
> > Given --with-system-primesieve=force, but no system package could be 
> > used.
> > That's an error.  Please install the indicated package to continue.
> > (To override this error, use ./configure --without-system-primesieve)
> > Given --with-system-primecount=force, but no system package could be 
> > used.
> > That's an error.  Please install the indicated package to continue.
> > (To override this error, use ./configure --without-system-primecount)
>
> this says that conda is behind Sage in regard of versions of  eclib

For what it's worth, Nils, Sage's eclib was recently updated: not
major but a bugfix.  See https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34029.

John

> and primesieve/count
>
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] isogeny_class for EC_NumberField sometimes raises errors

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 at 19:41, Barinder Banwait  wrote:
>
> Thanks John -- ticket raised here: 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34174#ticket

As a workaround, you can do two things (which will not be necessary
after I have finished with that ticket):
(1) replace E by E.integral_model(), or (better)
E.global_minimal_model(semi_global=True) before computing the isogeny
class
(2) use minimal_models=False in calling the isogeny_class() method.

The problem with this specific quadratic field is that the fundamental
unit has one very small conjugate.

Further discussions can be on ticket 34174.

John

>
> On Tuesday, 12 July 2022 at 18:11:19 UTC+2 john.c...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Barinder, I'll look into this (tomorrow) -- it's my code. Please open
>> a ticket and CC me. It's happening in the code to reduce a model with
>> respect to scaling by units.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 at 16:19, Barinder Banwait  wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear sage-devel,
>> >
>> > I am running into an issue with computing isogeny classes of elliptic 
>> > curves over number fields.
>> >
>> > Here is what I entered:
>> >
>> > K. = QuadraticField(4569)
>> > myJ = 46969655/32768
>> > E = EllipticCurve(j=K(myJ))
>> > C = E.isogeny_class()
>> >
>> > This raises a KeyError in the first instance, which seems to be handled 
>> > via a direct call to IsogenyClass_EC_NumberField, but this then raises a 
>> > ValueError: Cannot convert infinity or NaN to Sage Integer. The full stack 
>> > trace is in the PS.
>> >
>> > This error has occurred on sage-9.4 on a system whose `uname -a` is `Linux 
>> > LEGENDRE 5.4.0-91-generic #102-Ubuntu SMP Fri Nov 5 16:31:28 UTC 2021 
>> > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux`, as well as on sage-9.7-beta5 on `Linux 
>> > Barinder 5.4.0-121-generic #137-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jun 15 13:33:07 UTC 2022 
>> > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux`.
>> >
>> > Changing the field K to many other quadratic fields does not yield any 
>> > error. However I did also notice this error with many j-invariants in 
>> > QuadraticField(6537), so it somehow seems to be base-field dependent.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> > Barinder
>> >
>> > PS. Full traceback:
>> >
>> > ---
>> > KeyError Traceback (most recent call last)
>> > /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/structure/category_object.pyx
>> >  in sage.structure.category_object.CategoryObject.getattr_from_category 
>> > (build/cythonized/sage/structure/category_object.c:7074)()
>> > 838 try:
>> > --> 839 return self.__cached_methods[name]
>> > 840 except KeyError:
>> >
>> > KeyError: '_isoclass'
>> >
>> > During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
>> >
>> > AttributeError Traceback (most recent call last)
>> > /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_number_field.py
>> >  in isogeny_class(self, reducible_primes, algorithm, minimal_models)
>> > 3007 try:
>> > -> 3008 return self._isoclass
>> > 3009 except AttributeError:
>> >
>> > /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/structure/category_object.pyx
>> >  in sage.structure.category_object.CategoryObject.__getattr__ 
>> > (build/cythonized/sage/structure/category_object.c:6993)()
>> > 832 """
>> > --> 833 return self.getattr_from_category(name)
>> > 834
>> >
>> > /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/structure/category_object.pyx
>> >  in sage.structure.category_object.CategoryObject.getattr_from_category 
>> > (build/cythonized/sage/structure/category_object.c:7159)()
>> > 847
>> > --> 848 attr = getattr_from_other_class(self, cls, name)
>> > 849 self.__cached_methods[name] = attr
>> >
>> > /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/cpython/getattr.pyx
>> >  in sage.cpython.getattr.getattr_from_other_class 
>> > (build/cythonized/sage/cpython/getattr.c:2552)()
>> > 366 dummy_error_message.name = name
>> > --> 367 raise AttributeError(dummy_error_message)
>> > 368 cdef PyObject* attr = instance_getattr(cls, name)
>> >
>> > AttributeError: 'sage.sets.pythonclass.Set_PythonType_class' object has no 
>> > attribute '_Hom_'
>> >
>> > During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
>> >
>> > ValueError Traceback (most recent call last)
>> >  in 
>> > 2 myJ = Integer(46969655)/Integer(32768)
>> > 3 E = EllipticCurve(j=K(myJ))
>> > > 4 C = E.isogeny_class()
>> >
>> > /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_number_field.py
>> >  in isogeny_class(self, reducible_primes, algorithm, minimal_models)
>> > 3009 except AttributeError:
>> > 3010 from sage.schemes.elliptic_curves.isogeny_class import 
>> > IsogenyClass_EC_NumberField
>> > -> 3011 self._isoclass = IsogenyClass_EC_NumberField(self, 
>> > reducible_primes=reducible_primes, algorithm=algorithm, 
>> > minimal_models=minimal_models)
>> > 3012 return self._isoclass
>> > 3013
>> >
>> > 

Re: [sage-devel] isogeny_class for EC_NumberField sometimes raises errors

[John Cremona]

Barinder, I'll look into this (tomorrow) -- it's my code.  Please open
a ticket and CC me.  It's happening in the code to reduce a model with
respect to scaling by units.

John

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 at 16:19, Barinder Banwait  wrote:
>
> Dear sage-devel,
>
> I am running into an issue with computing isogeny classes of elliptic curves 
> over number fields.
>
> Here is what I entered:
>
> K. = QuadraticField(4569)
> myJ = 46969655/32768
> E = EllipticCurve(j=K(myJ))
> C = E.isogeny_class()
>
> This raises a KeyError in the first instance, which seems to be handled via a 
> direct call to IsogenyClass_EC_NumberField, but this then raises a 
> ValueError: Cannot convert infinity or NaN to Sage Integer. The full stack 
> trace is in the PS.
>
> This error has occurred on sage-9.4 on a system whose `uname -a` is `Linux 
> LEGENDRE 5.4.0-91-generic #102-Ubuntu SMP Fri Nov 5 16:31:28 UTC 2021 x86_64 
> x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux`, as well as on sage-9.7-beta5 on `Linux Barinder 
> 5.4.0-121-generic #137-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jun 15 13:33:07 UTC 2022 x86_64 x86_64 
> x86_64 GNU/Linux`.
>
> Changing the field K to many other quadratic fields does not yield any error. 
> However I did also notice this error with many j-invariants in 
> QuadraticField(6537), so it somehow seems to be base-field dependent.
>
> Best wishes,
> Barinder
>
> PS. Full traceback:
>
> ---
> KeyError  Traceback (most recent call last)
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/structure/category_object.pyx
>  in sage.structure.category_object.CategoryObject.getattr_from_category 
> (build/cythonized/sage/structure/category_object.c:7074)()
> 838 try:
> --> 839 return self.__cached_methods[name]
> 840 except KeyError:
>
> KeyError: '_isoclass'
>
> During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
>
> AttributeErrorTraceback (most recent call last)
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_number_field.py
>  in isogeny_class(self, reducible_primes, algorithm, minimal_models)
>3007 try:
> -> 3008 return self._isoclass
>3009 except AttributeError:
>
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/structure/category_object.pyx
>  in sage.structure.category_object.CategoryObject.__getattr__ 
> (build/cythonized/sage/structure/category_object.c:6993)()
> 832 """
> --> 833 return self.getattr_from_category(name)
> 834
>
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/structure/category_object.pyx
>  in sage.structure.category_object.CategoryObject.getattr_from_category 
> (build/cythonized/sage/structure/category_object.c:7159)()
> 847
> --> 848 attr = getattr_from_other_class(self, cls, name)
> 849 self.__cached_methods[name] = attr
>
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/cpython/getattr.pyx
>  in sage.cpython.getattr.getattr_from_other_class 
> (build/cythonized/sage/cpython/getattr.c:2552)()
> 366 dummy_error_message.name = name
> --> 367 raise AttributeError(dummy_error_message)
> 368 cdef PyObject* attr = instance_getattr(cls, name)
>
> AttributeError: 'sage.sets.pythonclass.Set_PythonType_class' object has no 
> attribute '_Hom_'
>
> During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
>
> ValueErrorTraceback (most recent call last)
>  in 
>   2 myJ = Integer(46969655)/Integer(32768)
>   3 E = EllipticCurve(j=K(myJ))
> > 4 C = E.isogeny_class()
>
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_number_field.py
>  in isogeny_class(self, reducible_primes, algorithm, minimal_models)
>3009 except AttributeError:
>3010 from sage.schemes.elliptic_curves.isogeny_class import 
> IsogenyClass_EC_NumberField
> -> 3011 self._isoclass = IsogenyClass_EC_NumberField(self, 
> reducible_primes=reducible_primes, algorithm=algorithm, 
> minimal_models=minimal_models)
>3012 return self._isoclass
>3013
>
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/isogeny_class.py
>  in __init__(self, E, reducible_primes, algorithm, minimal_models)
> 705 self._algorithm = algorithm
> 706 self._minimal_models = minimal_models
> --> 707 IsogenyClass_EC.__init__(self, E, label=None, empty=False)
> 708
> 709 def copy(self):
>
> /scratch/sage/sage-9.4/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/isogeny_class.py
>  in __init__(self, E, label, empty)
>  68 self._label = label
>  69 if not empty:
> ---> 70 self._compute()
>  71
>  72 def __len__(self):
>
> 

Re: [sage-devel] conjugacy_classes_representatives() order seems to be random?

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 at 14:14, Josh Mundinger  wrote:
>
> Alright, thank you.
>
> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 2:08:42 AM UTC-4 dim...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022, 02:37 Josh Mundinger,  wrote:
>>>
>>> When I run conjugacy_classes_representatives() on a sufficiently large 
>>> permutation group, it seems that the ordering that representatives are 
>>> produced in does not match that of conjugacy_classes(), and in fact changes 
>>> with repeated evaluations.
>>>
>>> Here is some sample code, running conjugacy_classes_representatives() for 
>>> the Weyl group of type B_8:
>>> {{{
>>> G = PermutationGroup([[(i,i+1),(8+i,8+i+1)] for i in range(7)]+[(7,15)])
>>> G.conjugacy_classes_representatives()[100] #returns different, nonconjugate 
>>> answers upon repeated evaluation
>>> }}}
>>
>>
>> this is to be expected - underlying algorithms (implemented in GAP, called 
>> by Sage)
>> use randomisation.

But on the other hand, it would be very simple to change the line

return [self(rep.Representative(), check=False) for rep in cl]

to

return sorted([self(rep.Representative(), check=False) for rep in cl])

Is there any reason why not?

>>
>>>
>>> I am running Sage 9.5 on Ubuntu 22.04 64-bit
>>>
>>> best, Joshua Mundinger
>>>
>>> --
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/c3213048-da7f-4aee-9c94-53fb6add5bd4n%40googlegroups.com.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] potential bug for calculating Heegner points

[John Cremona]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 at 10:28, John Cremona  wrote:
>
> The problem is in lines 3373-3374 and 3382 of
> src/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/heegner.py.  The floating point
> approximation of the point has x-coordinate 0.500 -
> 1.32287565553229*I and the code tries to find an algebraic number to
> match (i.e. a polynomial over QQ with it as approximate root) this
> using degrees 1 and 2.  Degree 1 gives back x which passes the test on
> line 3382 (self._check_poly_discriminant(f)) which is only checking
> that its root could be in the relevant field (and of course 0 is the
> root, so it is).
>
> I'll open a ticket for this.

https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34121

>
> John
>
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 at 08:18, John Cremona  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Jul 2022, 23:21 'Justin C. Walker' via sage-devel, 
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Jul 5, 2022, at 07:00 , Debanjana  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > sage: E = EllipticCurve('11a1')
> >> > sage: P = E.heegner_point(-7)
> >> > sage: t = P.point_exact()
> >> > sage: t.domain()
> >> > Spectrum of Number Field in a with defining polynomial x^2 + x + 20
> >> > sage: t.domain().base_ring().discriminant()
> >> > -79
> >> >
> >> > The answer should be -7 but Sage gives -79
> >>
> >> I think what you are doing with this line:
> >> t.domain().base_ring().discriminant()
> >> is computing the discriminant of the base ring of t, i.e., the quadratic 
> >> field associated to the curve E.
> >>
> >> This gives you what you want:
> >> P.discriminant()
> >> (i.e., -7).
> >
> >
> >
> > No this does not explain it. P.point_exact() should give a point defined 
> > over the field with discriminant -7, but it gives a point over a different 
> > field. This is wrong.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> HTH
> >>
> >> Justin
> >>
> >> --
> >> Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon at Large
> >> Director
> >> Institute for the Enhancement of the Director's income
> >> ---
> >> --
> >> They said it couldn't be done, but sometimes,
> >> it doesn't work out that way.
> >>   - Casey Stengel
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >> "sage-devel" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> >> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/9025D9A8-5E0F-42C9-AD1D-8B73F0E5BB5B%40mac.com.

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Re: [sage-devel] potential bug for calculating Heegner points

[John Cremona]

The problem is in lines 3373-3374 and 3382 of
src/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/heegner.py.  The floating point
approximation of the point has x-coordinate 0.500 -
1.32287565553229*I and the code tries to find an algebraic number to
match (i.e. a polynomial over QQ with it as approximate root) this
using degrees 1 and 2.  Degree 1 gives back x which passes the test on
line 3382 (self._check_poly_discriminant(f)) which is only checking
that its root could be in the relevant field (and of course 0 is the
root, so it is).

I'll open a ticket for this.

John

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 at 08:18, John Cremona  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022, 23:21 'Justin C. Walker' via sage-devel, 
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 5, 2022, at 07:00 , Debanjana  wrote:
>> >
>> > sage: E = EllipticCurve('11a1')
>> > sage: P = E.heegner_point(-7)
>> > sage: t = P.point_exact()
>> > sage: t.domain()
>> > Spectrum of Number Field in a with defining polynomial x^2 + x + 20
>> > sage: t.domain().base_ring().discriminant()
>> > -79
>> >
>> > The answer should be -7 but Sage gives -79
>>
>> I think what you are doing with this line:
>> t.domain().base_ring().discriminant()
>> is computing the discriminant of the base ring of t, i.e., the quadratic 
>> field associated to the curve E.
>>
>> This gives you what you want:
>> P.discriminant()
>> (i.e., -7).
>
>
>
> No this does not explain it. P.point_exact() should give a point defined over 
> the field with discriminant -7, but it gives a point over a different field. 
> This is wrong.
>
> John
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> --
>> Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon at Large
>> Director
>> Institute for the Enhancement of the Director's income
>> ---
>> --
>> They said it couldn't be done, but sometimes,
>> it doesn't work out that way.
>>   - Casey Stengel
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> "sage-devel" group.
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>> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/9025D9A8-5E0F-42C9-AD1D-8B73F0E5BB5B%40mac.com.

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Re: [sage-devel] potential bug for calculating Heegner points

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 5 Jul 2022, 23:21 'Justin C. Walker' via sage-devel, <
sage-devel@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On Jul 5, 2022, at 07:00 , Debanjana  wrote:
> >
> > sage: E = EllipticCurve('11a1')
> > sage: P = E.heegner_point(-7)
> > sage: t = P.point_exact()
> > sage: t.domain()
> > Spectrum of Number Field in a with defining polynomial x^2 + x + 20
> > sage: t.domain().base_ring().discriminant()
> > -79
> >
> > The answer should be -7 but Sage gives -79
>
> I think what you are doing with this line:
> t.domain().base_ring().discriminant()
> is computing the discriminant of the base ring of t, i.e., the quadratic
> field associated to the curve E.
>
> This gives you what you want:
> P.discriminant()
> (i.e., -7).
>


No this does not explain it. P.point_exact() should give a point defined
over the field with discriminant -7, but it gives a point over a different
field. This is wrong.

John




>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> HTH
>
> Justin
>
> --
> Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon at Large
> Director
> Institute for the Enhancement of the Director's income
> ---
> --
> They said it couldn't be done, but sometimes,
> it doesn't work out that way.
>   - Casey Stengel
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: puzzling deprecation warning

[John Cremona]

Thanks -- sorry for not having searched on trac before posting.

John

On Fri, 24 Jun 2022 at 11:06, Samuel Lelievre  wrote:
>
> Seems to have been addressed already for Sage 9.7.
>
> Indeed, this query
>
>   https://trac.sagemath.org/query?order=id=1=~randrange
>
> returns in particular this result:
>
>   https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33234
>
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[sage-devel] puzzling deprecation warning

[John Cremona]

Running one of my scripts with 9.6 I notice several warnings like this:

/home/jec/sage/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10.3/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/period_lattice.py:238:
DeprecationWarni
ng: non-integer arguments to randrange() have been deprecated since
Python 3.10 and will be removed in a subsequent version
  self._ei = self.f2.roots(AA,multiplicities=False)

where f2 is a univariate polynomial over QQbar.   I am puzzled as to
why python highlights that line -- the is no call to randrange there.
Perhaps somewhere in the root-finding implementation over QQbar there
is such?  Though search_src("randrange") reveal nothing directly to do
with polynomials.

Anyway, this is something which will need to be fixed at some point.

John

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Re: [sage-devel] Where to put height function for polynomials

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 05:24, Jing Guo  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am contributing to Sage via GSoC this summer. As part of my work, I am 
> implementing the (global) height on polynomials for number fields. After 
> looking into relevant functions, such as degrees and coefficients, my mentors 
> and I think the following three files can be the candidates:
>
> multi_polynomial_element.py
> multi_polynomial_libsingular.pyx
> polynomial_element.pyx
>
> So I was wondering which one of them would be the best place to put (global) 
> height function on polynomials for number fields?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Relevant Trac ticket: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33971

If there was a specific class for polynomials over number fields, it
would go there, but I don't think there is.  I suggest putting the
code into a new file in rings/number_field, but then adding a method
to the relevant polynomial classes which checks that the base ring is
a number field and calls the new function if so, raising an error if
not.

It is probably worth looking at the factor() method in
rings/polynomial/polynomial_element.pyx and reading the comments
there, for a model of a rather bad way to do this.

John

>
> Jing
>
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Re: [sage-devel] configure problem

[John Cremona]

Thanks for the quick replies.  I switched to the master branch and
there bootstrap+configure worked.

I suggest that the report by configure was not sufficiently  helpful
or informative.  Should it not wither mark gcc as something necessary
to be installed, or tell me that it cannot me?

I know that this system needs an OS upgrade, and will see about doing
that, though it has a lot of users (and long-running jobs) and is hard
to get physical access to, so doing an O/S upgrade via remote login is
not a very relaxing experience.

John

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 12:02, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 12:00 PM François Bissey  wrote:
> >
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33316 that’s what happened. Support for 
> > gcc lower than 6.3 removed. I don’t know if you can get a newer gcc from 
> > that ubuntu.
>
> via a PPA it's possible, see e.g.
> https://gist.github.com/jlblancoc/99521194aba975286c80f93e47966dc5
>
> But it's better to upgrade to a more recent OS.
>
>
> >
> > > On 22/06/2022, at 22:56, John Cremona  wrote:
> > >
> > > On a machine (Ubuntu 16.04.7 LTS) on which I have done a lot of Sage
> > > development before,  and  successfully built sage from source, from
> > > scratch,  just a month ago (May 17 when 9.6 was released) with no
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > Now, I made a new clone of the source using
> > >
> > > git clone https://github.com/sagemath/sage.git
> > > cd sage
> > >
> > > then ran
> > >
> > > ./bootstrap
> > >
> > > and then
> > >
> > > ./configure
> > >
> > > but configure gave some error messages.  In the long list, I see
> > >
> > > gcc-11.3.0:  no suitable system
> > > package; this is an error
> > >
> > > and at the end:
> > >
> > > configure: error:
> > >
> > >Given --with-system-gcc=force, but no system package could be used.
> > >That's an error.  Please install the indicated package to continue.
> > >(To override this error, use ./configure --without-system-gcc)
> > >
> > > Now this system certainly has a working gcc, it is
> > > gcc version 5.4.0 20160609 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.12)
> > >
> > > Also,  So, what has changed since then?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > --
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> >
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[sage-devel] configure problem

[John Cremona]

On a machine (Ubuntu 16.04.7 LTS) on which I have done a lot of Sage
development before,  and  successfully built sage from source, from
scratch,  just a month ago (May 17 when 9.6 was released) with no
problems.

Now, I made a new clone of the source using

git clone https://github.com/sagemath/sage.git
cd sage

then ran

./bootstrap

and then

./configure

but configure gave some error messages.  In the long list, I see

gcc-11.3.0:  no suitable system
package; this is an error

and at the end:

configure: error:

Given --with-system-gcc=force, but no system package could be used.
That's an error.  Please install the indicated package to continue.
(To override this error, use ./configure --without-system-gcc)

Now this system certainly has a working gcc, it is
gcc version 5.4.0 20160609 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.12)

Also,  So, what has changed since then?

John

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Re: [sage-devel] [ANN] Flint-2.9.0 release candidate 2

[John Cremona]

On Sat, 18 Jun 2022, 10:23 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 9:40 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 18 Jun 2022, 08:33 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 11:41 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Works for me --with MPIR and MPFR already installed, and also using
> >> Do you still use MPIR rather than GMP?
> >
> >
> > Yes but it's a pain in the neck having libgmp.so files around which are
> not genuine GMP.  It's hard to uninstall ( I don't think that I ever
> succeeded). If you try to uninstall and reinstall GMP all hell breaks loose.
>
> >
> > This is on Ubuntu by the way.
> >
>
> I don't  understand - according to
> https://repology.org/project/mpir/versions  neither Ubuntu nor Debian
> have a system MPIR package.
> So this seems to be a hell of your own making.
>

I'm sure it is. My mpir is built from source.  On a new computer I would
avoid building it, but right now what I have does work.



>
> > John
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > ./configure --extensions=/hmod_mat (am I the only person using
> >> > hmod_mat?)
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 at 10:02, 'Bill Hart' via sage-devel
> >> >  wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi all,
> >> > >
> >> > > I have just tagged release candidate 2 of Flint version 2.9, see
> [1].
> >> > >
> >> > > This release candidate makes changes to the Flint build system
> >> > > (internally only; from the user's perspective it still operates the
> >> > > same way) so we would be pleased to receive reports of any new build
> >> > > failures.
> >> > >
> >> > > In particular it should build more easily with MinGW64 now.
> >> > >
> >> > > There are also numerous critical bugs fixed in this release
> candidate
> >> > > (these are new bugs for 2.9 and did not exist in a released version
> of
> >> > > Flint).
> >> > >
> >> > > I am hopeful that this will be the final release candidate and that
> >> > > Flint will now be released on Friday next week.
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill.
> >> > >
> >> > > [1] https://github.com/wbhart/flint2/releases/tag/2.9.0-rc2
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
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> send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
> >> >
> >> > --
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Re: [sage-devel] [ANN] Flint-2.9.0 release candidate 2

[John Cremona]

On Sat, 18 Jun 2022, 08:33 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 11:41 AM John Cremona 
> wrote:
> >
> > Works for me --with MPIR and MPFR already installed, and also using
> Do you still use MPIR rather than GMP?
>

Yes but it's a pain in the neck having libgmp.so files around which are not
genuine GMP.  It's hard to uninstall ( I don't think that I ever
succeeded). If you try to uninstall and reinstall GMP all hell breaks
loose.

This is on Ubuntu by the way.

John



> > ./configure --extensions=/hmod_mat (am I the only person using
> > hmod_mat?)
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 at 10:02, 'Bill Hart' via sage-devel
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have just tagged release candidate 2 of Flint version 2.9, see [1].
> > >
> > > This release candidate makes changes to the Flint build system
> > > (internally only; from the user's perspective it still operates the
> > > same way) so we would be pleased to receive reports of any new build
> > > failures.
> > >
> > > In particular it should build more easily with MinGW64 now.
> > >
> > > There are also numerous critical bugs fixed in this release candidate
> > > (these are new bugs for 2.9 and did not exist in a released version of
> > > Flint).
> > >
> > > I am hopeful that this will be the final release candidate and that
> > > Flint will now be released on Friday next week.
> > >
> > > Bill.
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/wbhart/flint2/releases/tag/2.9.0-rc2
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
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> .
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] [ANN] Flint-2.9.0 release candidate 2

[John Cremona]

Works for me --with MPIR and MPFR already installed, and also using
./configure --extensions=/hmod_mat (am I the only person using
hmod_mat?)

John

On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 at 10:02, 'Bill Hart' via sage-devel
 wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have just tagged release candidate 2 of Flint version 2.9, see [1].
>
> This release candidate makes changes to the Flint build system
> (internally only; from the user's perspective it still operates the
> same way) so we would be pleased to receive reports of any new build
> failures.
>
> In particular it should build more easily with MinGW64 now.
>
> There are also numerous critical bugs fixed in this release candidate
> (these are new bugs for 2.9 and did not exist in a released version of
> Flint).
>
> I am hopeful that this will be the final release candidate and that
> Flint will now be released on Friday next week.
>
> Bill.
>
> [1] https://github.com/wbhart/flint2/releases/tag/2.9.0-rc2
>
> --
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 at 11:18, G. M.-S.  wrote:
>
>
> On macOS:  A wonderful app, thanks to Marc Culler.
>
> On Windows:  Too complex for my far from savvy students.  We are stuck with 
> SageMath 9.3 for the time being.
>
> On Linux:  It depends on the distribution, some have totally outdated 
> versions (as seen now and then in messages to sage-support).
>
> Most people are unable to build SageMath from scratch, or to use Conda, or 
> VMs, or dockers, or whatever.
>
> In 2022, anybody should be able to get SageMath with a regular installation 
> procedure.
>
> In my opinion, "Creating a viable free open source alternative to Magma, 
> Maple, Mathematica and Matlab" means also "as easy to install as Magma, 
> Maple, Mathematica and MATLAB".

I regularly update Magma installations on a few machines.  Each time I
have to download two files (one binary and one big tar file) and I
have my own bash script to run to install them, using a su account on
each machine.  This would not be a very easy thing to do for a
beginner.

Just saying,

John

>
> But I do not know if we have the people and the time for it.
>
> Guillermo
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 at 11:32, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 08:39 seb@gmail.com,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually we no longer advertise the binary distribution.
>>>
>>> So, what do we advertise to potential newcomers to Sage? I think despite 
>>> such great things as Cocalc, SageMathCell and Gitpod, there should be 
>>> something easy to install that can be used offline, too.
>>
>> several Linux distributions carry reasonably up to date binary Sage 
>> installations (and these can be installed on various VMs, e.g. on Windows' 
>> WSL, ChromeOS' Crostini, etc)
>>
>> Then, there is Conda, there is an macOS app, and there are docker images.
>
>
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Reviving the Annual SageMath Development Prize

[John Cremona]

I volunteer.

John

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022, 16:10 William Stein,  wrote:

> I also volunteer to be on the committee.
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 2:01 AM Samuel Lelievre
>  wrote:
> >
> > Excellent idea. I volunteer to be on the committee.  --Samuel
> >
> > --
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> .
>
>
>
> --
> William (http://wstein.org)
>
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Re: [sage-devel] ERROR In function "is_prime"

[John Cremona]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2022, 10:50 Andrew,  wrote:

> There does seem to be a problem:
>
> sage: k = 61*2^88+1 ; k
> 18878585599102049192211644417
> sage: k.is_prime()
> True
> sage: k.factor()
> 18878585599102049192211644417
> sage: k == 61*2^88+1
> True
> sage: GF(k)
> Finite Field of size 18878585599102049192211644417
>

What on earth is supposed to be the problem?  The only error message I have
seen in this thread is in the original post where an attempt was made to
construct GF(18).



>
> On Saturday, 2 April 2022 at 6:55:44 pm UTC+11 bea...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It seems this number is a prime number and 18878585599102049192211644417
>> = 61*2^88+1 is not a factorization of the number. Hence, everything is
>> fine. Am I missing something here?
>>
>> cheers,
>> Andry
>>
>> Le sam. 2 avr. 2022 à 02:33, carlos ortiz  a écrit :
>>
>>> The number:
>>>
>>> 18878585599102049192211644417 = 61*2^88+1
>>>
>>> but in sage:
>>>
>>> k=ZZ(18878585599102049192211644417)
>>>
>>> k.is_prime()
>>>
>>> True
>>>
>>> k.factor()
>>>
>>> 18878585599102049192211644417
>>>
>>> F = FiniteField(18)
>>>
>>> raise ValueError("the order of a finite field must be a prime power")
>>>
>>>
>>> Howeve,
>>>
>>> F=FiniteField(18878585599102049192211644417)
>>>
>>> F
>>>
>>> Finite Field of size 18878585599102049192211644417
>>>
>>> The above functions generate error for this number
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andry Nirina Rabenantoandro, PhD.
>>
>>
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Re: [sage-devel] UCLA paper

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 at 15:55, William Stein  wrote:
>
> And then your paper appears at
> https://www.sagemath.org/library-publications.html
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 7:22 AM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> >
> > Ideally, do a PR at https://github.com/sagemath/publications, our
> > GitHub repo specifically for gathering such data.

I don't know how I didn't know about this!  It had 3 citations to
things of mine but I went looking and found 8 more...

I'll make a PR there today (despite Dima's new comment),

John

> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 3:17 PM enriqu...@gmail.com
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there a place to communicate  papers citing Sagemath?
> > >
> > > El miércoles, 23 de febrero de 2022 a las 20:38:26 UTC+1, 
> > > dim...@gmail.com escribió:
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 7:23 PM William Stein  wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi
> > >> >
> > >> > UCLA just published a new paper about teaching Dynamics to about 1,400
> > >> > Biology students a year. They use Sage heavily in this course. The
> > >> > paper is freely available here:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358569003_Teaching_Dynamics_to_Biology_Undergraduates_the_UCLA_Experience
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Just added in 
> > >> https://github.com/sagemath/publications/commit/356ef19157e964b25df9694c527aa8912d700dc6
> > >>
> > >> :-)
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > William (http://wstein.org)
> > >> >
> > >> > --
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> > >> > Groups "sage-devel" group.
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> > >> > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
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> > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GBcp%2BStq9%2B%2BvEoH7jDHx-02FO_GdUAG9dVS32h7rdxVdg%40mail.gmail.com.
> > >
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> >
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 20:07, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 20:01 John Cremona,  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 17:12 Sébastien Labbé,  wrote:
>>>
>>> The "./configure" part of the installation of sage advice this:
>>> database_cremona_ellcurve-20190911:  optional, use "./configure 
>>> --enable-database_cremona_ellcurve" to install
>>>
>>> Therefore, if I were you, after updating the source tree with git let's 
>>> say, I would do:
>>>
>>> make configure
>>> ./configure --enable-database_cremona_ellcurve
>>> MAKE='make -j8' make
>>>
>>> to compile sagemath in parallel such a way that it automatically installs 
>>> the desired optional packages in whatever ordering respecting the 
>>> dependencies which works.
>>>
>>> You may also want more such "enable" as follows:
>>>
>>> ./configure \
>>> --enable-experimental-packages \
>>> --enable-download-from-upstream-url \
>>> --enable-ccache \
>>> --enable-database_cremona_ellcurve
>>>
>>> You may consult the config.log file which lists a lot of them.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Sébastien
>>
>>
>> Thanks for that. Some of us have been building Sage from source for a long 
>> time (14 years!) which means we are set in our ways and just do what we have 
>> always done.
>>
>> On the other hand it should surely be possible to install a package as 
>> simple as this one without triggering a full rebuild, completely 
>> unnecessarily, instead having to know before starting every optional package 
>> one might ever need.
>
>
> you can run ./configure as above after running make, you don't typically have 
> to do this from scratch.
>
> one also should be able to run
>
>
>make database_cremona_ellcurve

Dime, you're a hero -- that worked perfectly just as sage -i used to.

>
>
> (./sage -i should be deprecated and removed...)

-- or just have 'sage -i xyz' do whatever 'make xyz' now does, perhaps.

John

>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 5:57:08 PM UTC+1 john.c...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [copied from sage-release]
>>>>
>>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>>> From: John Cremona 
>>>> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 13:47
>>>> Subject: Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released
>>>> To: 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just successfully built 9.5 from a fresh tarball. After completing
>>>> the build I installed (as I usually do) an optional package with the
>>>> command-line "./sage -i database_cremona_ellcurve" and now it is
>>>> rebuilding gmp. What is going on here? Has the way of installing
>>>> optional packages changed -- in which case, surely the use of "sage
>>>> -i" should tell you what to do instead, instead of doing the 'wrong'
>>>> thing?
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> PS In the end it seemed to rebuild just about everything, even though
>>>> installing that package only involves copying one data file; it took a
>>>> couple of hours. It would be nice to know how to avoid it happening
>>>> again (I have several other machines I want to install Sage on and I
>>>> do always need this package;))
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[John Cremona]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 17:12 Sébastien Labbé,  wrote:

> The "./configure" part of the installation of sage advice this:
> database_cremona_ellcurve-20190911:  optional, use "./configure
> --enable-database_cremona_ellcurve" to install
>
> Therefore, if I were you, after updating the source tree with git let's
> say, I would do:
>
> make configure
> ./configure --enable-database_cremona_ellcurve
> MAKE='make -j8' make
>
> to compile sagemath in parallel such a way that it automatically installs
> the desired optional packages in whatever ordering respecting the
> dependencies which works.
>
> You may also want more such "enable" as follows:
>
> ./configure \
> --enable-experimental-packages \
> --enable-download-from-upstream-url \
> --enable-ccache \
> --enable-database_cremona_ellcurve
>
> You may consult the config.log file which lists a lot of them.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sébastien
>

Thanks for that. Some of us have been building Sage from source for a long
time (14 years!) which means we are set in our ways and just do what we
have always done.

On the other hand it should surely be possible to install a package as
simple as this one without triggering a full rebuild, completely
unnecessarily, instead having to know before starting every optional
package one might ever need.


>
> On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 5:57:08 PM UTC+1 john.c...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [copied from sage-release]
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: John Cremona 
>> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 13:47
>> Subject: Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released
>> To: 
>>
>>
>> I just successfully built 9.5 from a fresh tarball. After completing
>> the build I installed (as I usually do) an optional package with the
>> command-line "./sage -i database_cremona_ellcurve" and now it is
>> rebuilding gmp. What is going on here? Has the way of installing
>> optional packages changed -- in which case, surely the use of "sage
>> -i" should tell you what to do instead, instead of doing the 'wrong'
>> thing?
>>
>> John
>>
>> PS In the end it seemed to rebuild just about everything, even though
>> installing that package only involves copying one data file; it took a
>> couple of hours. It would be nice to know how to avoid it happening
>> again (I have several other machines I want to install Sage on and I
>> do always need this package;))
>>
> --
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> .
>

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[sage-devel] Fwd: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[John Cremona]

[copied from sage-release]

-- Forwarded message -
From: John Cremona 
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 13:47
Subject: Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released
To: 


I just successfully built 9.5 from a fresh tarball.  After completing
the build I installed (as I usually do) an optional package with the
command-line "./sage -i database_cremona_ellcurve" and now it is
rebuilding gmp.  What is going on here?  Has the way of installing
optional packages changed -- in which case, surely the use of "sage
-i" should tell you what to do instead,  instead of doing the 'wrong'
thing?

John

PS In the end it seemed to rebuild just about everything, even though
installing that package only involves copying one data file; it took a
couple of hours.  It would be nice to know how to avoid it happening
again (I have several other machines I want to install Sage on and I
do always need this package;))

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: 32768

[John Cremona]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 at 13:53, Samuel Lelievre  wrote:
>
> 2022-01-18 10:54:34 UTC, John Cremona:
> >
> > I see that there are now over 2^32 trac tickets.
>
> The power of two that is near 32000 is really 2^15.
> : )

You are right of course.  We had 16-bit arithmetic so the max was
32767 (and min -32768).  I still managed somehow to find the primes up
to 10^5 (using trial division, but I was only about 16, the programs
were on punched cards and I only got about one run a day which meant
that compiler syntax errors were very unwelcome.

I had better shut up.  You can always watch the video from a Sage Days
in 2011 (https://wiki.sagemath.org/days29)!

John

>
> > Wow. When I started computing you couldn't
> > have integers greater than 32767...
>
> Good thing we can now.
>
> Here's to many more Sage tickets to come!   --Samuel
>
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[sage-devel] 32768

[John Cremona]

I see that there are now over 2^32 trac tickets. Wow.  When I started
computing you couldn't have integers greater than 32767...

John

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Re: [sage-devel] not easily reproducible QQbar bug

[John Cremona]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 at 14:05, 'Martin R' via sage-devel
 wrote:
>
> I have some very strange behaviour of a substitution, which I don't know how 
> to reproduce, but it happens from time to time, and is REALLY disturbing.  I 
> don't even know what to write into a ticket, so I'm asking here first.  The 
> definition of CSP is at the end of the mail.
>
> sage: R. = ZZ[]
> sage: p = q^21 + q^20 + q^19 + q^18 + q^17 + q^16 + q^15 + q^14 + q^13 + q^12 
> + q^11 + 2*q^10 + 2*q^9 + 2*q^8 + 2*q^7 + 2*q^6 + 2*q^5 + 2*q^4 + 2*q^3 + 
> 2*q^2 + 3*q + 4
> sage: p == CSP(22)
> True
> sage: CSP(22).subs({q:QQbar.zeta(2)})
> -28
> sage: CSP(22).subs({q:QQbar.zeta(2)})
> 2
> sage: CSP(22).parent()
> Univariate Polynomial Ring in q over Integer Ring
>
> Sometimes I also get a complex number.
>
> Martin
>
> ###
> def cycle_power(g, e):
> """
> Return k such that g^k = e
> """
> if e.is_one():
> return 0
> k = 1
> p = g
> while True:
> if e == p:
> return k
> p *= g
> k += 1
>

1. You could be using discrete_log() or one of its variants instead of
your cycle_power() function.

2. In CSP() would it not be faster to work out for each power h=g^k,
how many times h will arise and hence the coefficient of q^k?  The
pattern in your example is fairly simple to see.

I know that neither of these points answers your actual question...

John

> @cached_function
> def CSP(n):
> C = groups.permutation.Cyclic(n)
> g = C.gen()
> R. = ZZ[]
> return sum(q^min(cycle_power(g, e) for e in coset) for H in C.subgroups() 
> for coset in C.cosets(H))
>
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Re: [sage-devel] problem with paralell build

[John Cremona]

On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 11:54, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 11:35 AM Ralf Hemmecke  wrote:
>>
>> I seem to have a problem with building sage 9.4 via.
>>
>>   MAKE='make -j12' make -j12
>>
>> It stops during the build of dochtml. Obviously because of too many open
>> files. I'm now trying without "-j12" and it seems to be building nicely.
>>
>> Anyhow... any suggestion what to change to prevent my problem and still
>> be able to build in parallel?
>>
> try increasing this limit (1024 is very small...)
>
> ulimit -n 4096

Mine is also 1024, so perhaps it is a common default (I have ubuntu
20.04.3 LTS, and the only ulimit thing I set to a non-default value is
'ulimit -c 0').  Perhaps the build instructions could mention this as
something to change for parallel builds.

John

>
>
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ralf
>>
>> [dochtml]   File "", line 987, in
>> get_code
>> [dochtml] OSError: [Errno 24] Too many open files:
>> '/zvol/sage/sage-9.4/x86_64/local/lib/python3.9/site-packages/sage/doctest/__init__.py'
>> [dochtml]   File "", line 1044, in
>> get_data
>> [dochtml] OSError: [Errno 24] Too many open files:
>> '/zvol/sage/sage-9.4/x86_64/local/lib/python3.9/site-packages/sage/rings/finite_rings/all.py'
>> [dochtml] make[5]: *** [Makefile:20: doc-inventory--reference-algebras]
>> Error 1
>> [dochtml] make[5]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
>> [dochtml] make[5]: *** [Makefile:20:
>> doc-inventory--reference-polynomial_rings] Error 1
>>
>> >ulimit -a
>> real-time non-blocking time  (microseconds, -R) unlimited
>> core file size  (blocks, -c) 0
>> data seg size   (kbytes, -d) unlimited
>> scheduling priority (-e) 0
>> file size   (blocks, -f) unlimited
>> pending signals (-i) 31256
>> max locked memory   (kbytes, -l) 1009691
>> max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited
>> open files  (-n) 1024
>> pipe size(512 bytes, -p) 8
>> POSIX message queues (bytes, -q) 819200
>> real-time priority  (-r) 0
>> stack size  (kbytes, -s) 8192
>> cpu time   (seconds, -t) unlimited
>> max user processes  (-u) 31256
>> virtual memory  (kbytes, -v) unlimited
>> file locks  (-x) unlimited
>>
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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-nt] Re: [sage-support] AssertionError when finding roots over the Real Algebraic Field

[John Cremona]

More generally uf all the coefficients can be coerced into AA then the
roots in QQbar not in AA come in pairs.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021, 09:23 Dima Pasechnik,  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:19 AM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 8:10 AM Tracy Hall  wrote:
>>
>>> I ran into an assertion error when trying to return a sorted list whose
>>> key was a certain linear combination of eigenvalues of the Laplacian matrix
>>> over graphs on nine vertices. Digging into it a bit, the failure happened
>>> when comparing an algebraic real number against the same number that was
>>> constructed differently (starting with the graph complement). Digging
>>> further, the error happens when finding roots of a certain degree 56
>>> polynomial over AA (all the roots are real) but there is no error doing the
>>> same thing over QQbar.
>>>
>>> Here is a minimal working example:
>>>
>>> P. = QQ[]
>>> rootlist = (z^8 - 32*z^7 + 425*z^6 - 3044*z^5 + 12789*z^4 - 32090*z^3 +
>>> 46672*z^2 - 35734*z + 10917).roots(AA)
>>> problem = rootlist[-1][0] - rootlist[0][0] - 9
>>>
>>> problem.minpoly().roots(AA)
>>>
>>
>> indeed, problem.minpoly().roots(QQbar) produces a list of 56 QQbar
>> elements, more precisely, pairs (t,1)), each t convertible into AA.
>> One funny discrepancy is that one of the elements of this list is shown as
>> (-6.390396068452545? + 0.?e-170*I, 1)
>>
>> sage: rrr=problem.minpoly().roots(QQbar)
>> sage: rrr[-1]
>> (-6.390396068452545? + 0.?e-170*I, 1)
>> sage: AA(rrr[-1][0])
>> -6.390396068452545?
>>
>> Not sure whether this is the cause of the bug, though.
>>
>
> The behaviour  of QQbar is not very consistent there. Only one root is
> shown with an imaginary part, but
> the polynomial has integer coefficients --- it ought to "know" that
> complex roots come in pairs :-)
>
>
>> Dima
>>
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> 
> .
>

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