[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread Nils Bruin
On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 12:31:14 PM UTC-7, John H Palmieri wrote:
>
> If you're willing to use the Sage command-line interface rather than the 
> notebook, then you might try the "screen" program, which should already be 
> installed on linux or Mac OS X.
>

And for graphical interfaces, "xpra" works surprisingly well. Yes, it's 
just forwarding basically bitmaps of the graphical interface, but it can do 
it on a per-window basis and I've found it surprisingly responsive on 
reasonable-but-not-super-fast network connections. They advertise it as 
"screen for GUI" and it works surprisingly well!
It's a bit heavy-handed for the jupyter notebook problem but it does 
provide a work-around for many similar scenarios as well.

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread John H Palmieri
If you're willing to use the Sage command-line interface rather than the 
notebook, then you might try the "screen" program, which should already be 
installed on linux or Mac OS X. You might remotely log in to the machine 
running Sage and then do "screen sage". Then you type in whatever commands 
you want to execute and then detach the screen. You should be able to log 
out, then log back in later. Then you reattach the screen so that you can 
see what progress has been made.

  John


On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 12:07:18 PM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>
> I'm sorry if I came off as snarky.  I really am sad to be losing this 
> functionality of the SageMath notebook.  It has served me well in several 
> substantial (for me) calculations over the last 12 years or so.  Of course 
> I understand that scarcity of support resources justifies switching 
> SageMath to the Jupyter notebook.  I'll hope that the Jupyter project 
> catches up with the SageMath noteboook in this respect before the latter 
> becomes unusable.
>
> Thank you for the discussion.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-4, Nils Bruin wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 11:13:23 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>>>
>>> One of the advantages of SageMath over Mathematica is SageMath's ability 
>>> to run a remote notebook without continuous network connection.  The 
>>> Mathematica remote kernel requires continuous connection.  It's sad that 
>>> SageMath is regressing to the level of Mathematica in this respect.
>>>
>>
>> I guess providing a platform for people to vent frustration about the 
>> state of third party components used in sage out of necessity due to 
>> developer shortage is also a form of support so you're welcome :-).
>>
>> For future reference:
>>
>> This is an issue that tracks this problem in jupyterlab:
>>
>> https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/issues/2833
>>
>> It refers to the following issue, which handles "real time collaboration" 
>> in jupyterlab, and as a consequence will deal with the 
>> output-loss-on-reconnection problem:
>>
>> https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/issues/5382
>>
>> The latter is under active development (and there's a branch there that 
>> supposedly has most of what is required), so perhaps we'll get this in the 
>> not-too-distant future. Note this is for JupyterLab. I'm not so sure this 
>> will be backported to jupyter notebook. I already regularly use JupyterLab 
>> for sage, python, and magma, and it seems to be working fine.
>>
>> For maintainability in the future, we might want to make is even easier 
>> still to provide sagemath as a kernel to globally installed jupyters, 
>> rather than just a prepackaged one.
>>
>

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread Daniel Friedan
I'm sorry if I came off as snarky.  I really am sad to be losing this 
functionality of the SageMath notebook.  It has served me well in several 
substantial (for me) calculations over the last 12 years or so.  Of course 
I understand that scarcity of support resources justifies switching 
SageMath to the Jupyter notebook.  I'll hope that the Jupyter project 
catches up with the SageMath noteboook in this respect before the latter 
becomes unusable.

Thank you for the discussion.

Daniel

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-4, Nils Bruin wrote:
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 11:13:23 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>>
>> One of the advantages of SageMath over Mathematica is SageMath's ability 
>> to run a remote notebook without continuous network connection.  The 
>> Mathematica remote kernel requires continuous connection.  It's sad that 
>> SageMath is regressing to the level of Mathematica in this respect.
>>
>
> I guess providing a platform for people to vent frustration about the 
> state of third party components used in sage out of necessity due to 
> developer shortage is also a form of support so you're welcome :-).
>
> For future reference:
>
> This is an issue that tracks this problem in jupyterlab:
>
> https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/issues/2833
>
> It refers to the following issue, which handles "real time collaboration" 
> in jupyterlab, and as a consequence will deal with the 
> output-loss-on-reconnection problem:
>
> https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/issues/5382
>
> The latter is under active development (and there's a branch there that 
> supposedly has most of what is required), so perhaps we'll get this in the 
> not-too-distant future. Note this is for JupyterLab. I'm not so sure this 
> will be backported to jupyter notebook. I already regularly use JupyterLab 
> for sage, python, and magma, and it seems to be working fine.
>
> For maintainability in the future, we might want to make is even easier 
> still to provide sagemath as a kernel to globally installed jupyters, 
> rather than just a prepackaged one.
>

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread Nils Bruin
On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 11:13:23 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>
> One of the advantages of SageMath over Mathematica is SageMath's ability 
> to run a remote notebook without continuous network connection.  The 
> Mathematica remote kernel requires continuous connection.  It's sad that 
> SageMath is regressing to the level of Mathematica in this respect.
>

I guess providing a platform for people to vent frustration about the state 
of third party components used in sage out of necessity due to developer 
shortage is also a form of support so you're welcome :-).

For future reference:

This is an issue that tracks this problem in jupyterlab:

https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/issues/2833

It refers to the following issue, which handles "real time collaboration" 
in jupyterlab, and as a consequence will deal with the 
output-loss-on-reconnection problem:

https://github.com/jupyterlab/jupyterlab/issues/5382

The latter is under active development (and there's a branch there that 
supposedly has most of what is required), so perhaps we'll get this in the 
not-too-distant future. Note this is for JupyterLab. I'm not so sure this 
will be backported to jupyter notebook. I already regularly use JupyterLab 
for sage, python, and magma, and it seems to be working fine.

For maintainability in the future, we might want to make is even easier 
still to provide sagemath as a kernel to globally installed jupyters, 
rather than just a prepackaged one.

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread Daniel Friedan
One of the advantages of SageMath over Mathematica is SageMath's ability to 
run a remote notebook without continuous network connection.  The 
Mathematica remote kernel requires continuous connection.  It's sad that 
SageMath is regressing to the level of Mathematica in this respect.

Writing output to disk during a long calculation is normal at the 
production stage.  My problems come from intermediate sized calculations 
and from the testing stage of big calculations.  One wants to to be able to 
go back to the notebook frequently to check the output.

I've investigated cocalc.  It requires the overhead of Docker.  Also, it 
uses a modified version of Jupyter.  This is apparently fine for allowing 
interrupted network connections.  But the interface is apparently not 
identical.  I'm trying to proselytize for SageMath over Mathematica to 
members of my center who are already using Jupyter for Python coding (for 
Machine Learning in high energy physics).  Two versions of Jupyter won't 
fly.  Also, they use Machine Learning libraries that are not present in 
cocalc.  They can be installed in the Docker image, but too much IT support 
is required for that.  Running cocalc on one's laptop in addition to the 
server requires Docker on the laptop.  Too much trouble.

Daniel



On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 1:59:49 PM UTC-4, Nils Bruin wrote:
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 5:56:42 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>>
>> The kernel is still running.  The problem is not the culling of idle 
>> notebooks.
>>
>> When I close the browser tab and then reopen the notebook, the kernel is 
>> still running but output is lost and output from ongoing calculations does 
>> not appear.  When the ongoing calculations are finished, I can interact 
>> with the notebook again.
>>
>> Google tells me that this is a long-standing deficiency of Jupyter.
>>
>
> Ouch, I see. I didn't know that. I've tried and can confirm the behaviour. 
>
> The (deprecated) SageMath notebook behaves properly on reconnecting, as if 
>> there was no interruption.
>>
>> This behavior is indispensable to me, so I can't switch to the Jupyter 
>> notebook until Jupyter behaves properly when reconnecting.
>>
>  
> This deficiency in Jupyter is not going to make the resources available to 
> maintain the sagenotebook, so I'm afraid the reality is going to be we're 
> going to have to do without it. You could take a look if cocalc does a 
> better job. It has its own notebook and I think they wrote/adapted their 
> own ipynb frontend too.
>
> Otherwise, a work-around would be to structure long-running computations a 
> little differently to write state to a separate file rather than depending 
> on logging into the notebook. The kernel doesn't seem to lose state; it's 
> just output, so once the process has completed (which you could then see 
> from the file), the notebook is ready for interaction again.
>
> Another workaround is to not close the browser but instead use something 
> like VNC or xpra to disconnect/reconnect (remotely) to your running browser.
>
> It's pretty obvious that different behaviour of Jupyter would be the 
> better solution, but if the deficiency has been around for a long time and 
> you don't have definite plans to fix it yourself (I wouldn't know how to), 
> the reality is that this will likely not change.
>

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread Nils Bruin
On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 5:56:42 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>
> The kernel is still running.  The problem is not the culling of idle 
> notebooks.
>
> When I close the browser tab and then reopen the notebook, the kernel is 
> still running but output is lost and output from ongoing calculations does 
> not appear.  When the ongoing calculations are finished, I can interact 
> with the notebook again.
>
> Google tells me that this is a long-standing deficiency of Jupyter.
>

Ouch, I see. I didn't know that. I've tried and can confirm the behaviour. 

The (deprecated) SageMath notebook behaves properly on reconnecting, as if 
> there was no interruption.
>
> This behavior is indispensable to me, so I can't switch to the Jupyter 
> notebook until Jupyter behaves properly when reconnecting.
>
 
This deficiency in Jupyter is not going to make the resources available to 
maintain the sagenotebook, so I'm afraid the reality is going to be we're 
going to have to do without it. You could take a look if cocalc does a 
better job. It has its own notebook and I think they wrote/adapted their 
own ipynb frontend too.

Otherwise, a work-around would be to structure long-running computations a 
little differently to write state to a separate file rather than depending 
on logging into the notebook. The kernel doesn't seem to lose state; it's 
just output, so once the process has completed (which you could then see 
from the file), the notebook is ready for interaction again.

Another workaround is to not close the browser but instead use something 
like VNC or xpra to disconnect/reconnect (remotely) to your running browser.

It's pretty obvious that different behaviour of Jupyter would be the better 
solution, but if the deficiency has been around for a long time and you 
don't have definite plans to fix it yourself (I wouldn't know how to), the 
reality is that this will likely not change.

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-22 Thread Daniel Friedan
The kernel is still running.  The problem is not the culling of idle 
notebooks.

When I close the browser tab and then reopen the notebook, the kernel is 
still running but output is lost and output from ongoing calculations does 
not appear.  When the ongoing calculations are finished, I can interact 
with the notebook again.

Google tells me that this is a long-standing deficiency of Jupyter.

The (deprecated) SageMath notebook behaves properly on reconnecting, as if 
there was no interruption.

This behavior is indispensable to me, so I can't switch to the Jupyter 
notebook until Jupyter behaves properly when reconnecting.

Daniel

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 7:35:18 PM UTC-4, Nils Bruin wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 11:19:22 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>>
>> However, disconnecting my browser from a remote jupyter notebook aborts 
>> the calculation.
>>
>> That shouldn't need to happen. Jupyter notebook has configuration options 
> for killing "idle" notebooks (for various form of "idle", including "not 
> having a connected browser"):
>
>
> https://jupyter-notebook.readthedocs.io/en/stable/config.html?highlight=idle
>
> In addition, JupyterHub probably has its own ways of culling inactive 
> servers, for various forms of "inactive".
>
> I suspect this is something you'll have to fix in the configuration of 
> JupyterHub, or perhaps in your own jupyter notebook settings.
>
>  
>
>> Is there any way to get reconnectability in the sagemath jupyter notebook?
>>
>> Or should I stick with the deprecated sagemath notebook?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Daniel
>>
>> Daniel Friedan
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[sage-support] Re: reconnect to remote sagemath jupyter notebook?

2019-04-10 Thread Nils Bruin
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 11:19:22 AM UTC-7, Daniel Friedan wrote:
>
> However, disconnecting my browser from a remote jupyter notebook aborts 
> the calculation.
>
> That shouldn't need to happen. Jupyter notebook has configuration options 
for killing "idle" notebooks (for various form of "idle", including "not 
having a connected browser"):

https://jupyter-notebook.readthedocs.io/en/stable/config.html?highlight=idle

In addition, JupyterHub probably has its own ways of culling inactive 
servers, for various forms of "inactive".

I suspect this is something you'll have to fix in the configuration of 
JupyterHub, or perhaps in your own jupyter notebook settings.

 

> Is there any way to get reconnectability in the sagemath jupyter notebook?
>
> Or should I stick with the deprecated sagemath notebook?
>
> thanks,
> Daniel
>
> Daniel Friedan
>
>
>
>

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