Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Mike Hansen]

I am head of development at Ambir, the manufacturer of this scanner.  That 
model has been out of production for over a decade.   It’s likely the unit is 
EOL and that clicking you are hearing is coming from the motor.   There are no 
belts, only gears in the unit and sure it’s possible the gears could be 
broken(not sure we’ve ever seen this failure mode) but more likely the motor is 
EOL.

If the SANE driver worked for it in the past and it’s not working now, it’s an 
EOL unit.   The control board is over a decade old and the SANE code is likely 
to be the same or older.

Also note that the SANE code did not come from Ambir nor do we endorse or 
support SANE development on those models.   I know that we have had discussions 
in the past about supporting SANE with the current models and may do so in the 
future.

I am supplying the above information so that you do not continue to put effort 
into the codebase for that model.  Also, if you want to check if the unit is 
EOL you are free to download the Windows drivers from docketport.com.

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Ralph Little
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2023 2:13 PM
To: Miss Tori
Cc: 
sane-devel@alioth-lists.debian.net
Subject: Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:07 AM Miss Tori 
mailto:misstoris...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was approved to the list)
It definitely has to do with what's going on during the sane_read API function.

If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly

There are a couple of things that I can think of:

1 - The scan head is hitting the end of travel and is slipping the belt or 
gear, or
2-  Whatever motor settings being specified are out of spec for the motor.

Can you confirm is this happens when the scan head is at the end of travel?
If not, then I suspect that the motor is having some problems with the settings 
used by the backend to drive the motor.

Cheers,
Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Ralph Little]

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:52 AM Miss Tori  wrote:

>
> I'll try wine or run a vm. I will then try to locate a windows machine if
> those two options don't pan out.
>
> The last time I tried to use it, it worked. That was Sept 2016.
> scanimage -V
> scanimage (sane-backends) 1.1.1-debian; backend version 1.1.1
>
> I am not fluent in C++, but I am willing to help in any way.
>
> There is a more recent version 1.2.1.
> Here are the changes
>
> genesys:
>
>- Fixes for unit test build errors related to GCC 12.
>- Fix for 32-bit limitation on scan line size which caused early
>abort. of scan.
>- Build issue fix for OSX.
>- Button support for Canon 8400f scanner corrected.
>- Support added back in for Plustek OpticFilm 7600i: config file entry
>was missing.
>
> The second one is the only one that  seems like it may be relevant. I
> don't know.
>

The rewrite of the genesys backend was some time ago. I don't think
anything changed in 1.2.1 that would make a difference to this.
I have contacted the backend maintainer about this issue and hopefully, we
will be able to help you. There is some commentary in the current code that
suggests there may be some issues with the current support for your
machine, so hopefully we will be able to come up with a fix.

I will let know you if and when I get some feedback.

Cheers,
Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Miss Tori]

On 2/9/23 14:37, Ralph Little wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:34 AM Miss Tori  wrote:


On 2/9/23 14:12, Ralph Little wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:07 AM Miss Tori
 wrote:

Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was
approved to the list)

It definitely has to do with what's going on during the
sane_read API function.

If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly


There are a couple of things that I can think of:

1 - The scan head is hitting the end of travel and is slipping
the belt or gear, or
2-  Whatever motor settings being specified are out of spec for
the motor.

Can you confirm is this happens when the scan head is at the end
of travel?
If not, then I suspect that the motor is having some problems
with the settings used by the backend to drive the motor.

Cheers,
Ralph



Thank you so much for your reply.

I am unsure of how to do that. I do not see any moving part from
the outside. I assume I need to open and watch, which is fine. I
will open it and watch.


If you do have the option to try Windows, then I would give that a go, 
at least to verify the correct function of the device.


Actually, since this is a genesys device, it may be that the motor 
settings have changed as the genesys backend of SANE was rewritten in C++.
One or two machines have had problems with motor tables from this new 
version exhibiting just this problem: the motor just buzzes without 
moving. If you are using a recent SANE, then this *could* be the issue.

If so, then we would have to change the motor settings for this machine.

Cheers,
Ralph


I'll try wine or run a vm. I will then try to locate a windows machine 
if those two options don't pan out.


The last time I tried to use it, it worked. That was Sept 2016.

scanimage -V
scanimage (sane-backends) 1.1.1-debian; backend version 1.1.1

I am not fluent in C++, but I am willing to help in any way.

There is a more recent version 1.2.1.
Here are the changes

|genesys:|

 * Fixes for unit test build errors related to GCC 12.
 * Fix for 32-bit limitation on scan line size which caused early
   abort. of scan.
 * Build issue fix for OSX.
 * Button support for Canon 8400f scanner corrected.
 * Support added back in for Plustek OpticFilm 7600i: config file entry
   was missing.

The second one is the only one that  seems like it may be relevant. I 
don't know.


I attached lots of my local output and versions to the original email. 
Did those make it to the list?

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Ralph Little]

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:34 AM Miss Tori  wrote:

>
> On 2/9/23 14:12, Ralph Little wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:07 AM Miss Tori  wrote:
>
>> Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was approved to the
>> list)
>> It definitely has to do with what's going on during the sane_read API
>> function.
>>
>> If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly
>>
>
> There are a couple of things that I can think of:
>
> 1 - The scan head is hitting the end of travel and is slipping the belt or
> gear, or
> 2-  Whatever motor settings being specified are out of spec for the motor.
>
> Can you confirm is this happens when the scan head is at the end of travel?
> If not, then I suspect that the motor is having some problems with the
> settings used by the backend to drive the motor.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralph
>
>
> Thank you so much for your reply.
>
> I am unsure of how to do that. I do not see any moving part from the
> outside. I assume I need to open and watch, which is fine. I will open it
> and watch.
>

If you do have the option to try Windows, then I would give that a go, at
least to verify the correct function of the device.

Actually, since this is a genesys device, it may be that the motor settings
have changed as the genesys backend of SANE was rewritten in C++.
One or two machines have had problems with motor tables from this new
version exhibiting just this problem: the motor just buzzes without moving.
If you are using a recent SANE, then this *could* be the issue.
If so, then we would have to change the motor settings for this machine.

Cheers,
Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Miss Tori]

On 2/9/23 14:12, Ralph Little wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:07 AM Miss Tori  wrote:

Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was approved to
the list)

It definitely has to do with what's going on during the sane_read
API function.

If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly


There are a couple of things that I can think of:

1 - The scan head is hitting the end of travel and is slipping the 
belt or gear, or

2-  Whatever motor settings being specified are out of spec for the motor.

Can you confirm is this happens when the scan head is at the end of 
travel?
If not, then I suspect that the motor is having some problems with the 
settings used by the backend to drive the motor.


Cheers,
Ralph



Thank you so much for your reply.

I am unsure of how to do that. I do not see any moving part from the 
outside. I assume I need to open and watch, which is fine. I will open 
it and watch.

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Miss Tori]

FYI: The last time I tried to use it was Sept of 2016. It functioned on 
this debian linux machine at that time using SANE.


On 2/9/23 14:24, Mike Hansen wrote:


I am head of development at Ambir, the manufacturer of this scanner.  
That model has been out of production for over a decade.   It’s likely 
the unit is EOL and that clicking you are hearing is coming from the 
motor. There are no belts, only gears in the unit and sure it’s 
possible the gears could be broken(not sure we’ve ever seen this 
failure mode) but more likely the motor is EOL.


If the SANE driver worked for it in the past and it’s not working now, 
it’s an EOL unit.   The control board is over a decade old and the 
SANE code is likely to be the same or older.


Also note that the SANE code did not come from Ambir nor do we endorse 
or support SANE development on those models.   I know that we have had 
discussions in the past about supporting SANE with the current models 
and may do so in the future.


I am supplying the above information so that you do not continue to 
put effort into the codebase for that model.  Also, if you want to 
check if the unit is EOL you are free to download the Windows drivers 
from docketport.com.


Sent from Mail  for 
Windows


*From: *Ralph Little 
*Sent: *Thursday, February 9, 2023 2:13 PM
*To: *Miss Tori 
*Cc: *sane-devel@alioth-lists.debian.net
*Subject: *Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:07 AM Miss Tori  wrote:

Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was approved to
the list)

It definitely has to do with what's going on during the sane_read
API function.

If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly

There are a couple of things that I can think of:

1 - The scan head is hitting the end of travel and is slipping the 
belt or gear, or


2-  Whatever motor settings being specified are out of spec for the motor.

Can you confirm is this happens when the scan head is at the end of 
travel?


If not, then I suspect that the motor is having some problems with the 
settings used by the backend to drive the motor.


Cheers,

Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Ralph Little]

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:24 AM Mike Hansen  wrote:

> I am head of development at Ambir, the manufacturer of this scanner.  That
> model has been out of production for over a decade.   It’s likely the unit
> is EOL and that clicking you are hearing is coming from the motor.   There
> are no belts, only gears in the unit and sure it’s possible the gears could
> be broken(not sure we’ve ever seen this failure mode) but more likely the
> motor is EOL.
>
>
>

I should have added that it could be toast, of course. :D

If the SANE driver worked for it in the past and it’s not working now, it’s
> an EOL unit.   The control board is over a decade old and the SANE code is
> likely to be the same or older.
>

Certainly people do turn to SANE to attempt to support their old hardware,
much of which is still serviceable. That's great for the environment, but
probably not so great for the bottom line of Ambir. :(


>
>
> Also note that the SANE code did not come from Ambir nor do we endorse or
> support SANE development on those models.   I know that we have had
> discussions in the past about supporting SANE with the current models and
> may do so in the future.
>

I would applaud that step greatly! We would also be happy to assist in any
way that we can.


>
>
> I am supplying the above information so that you do not continue to put
> effort into the codebase for that model.  Also, if you want to check if the
> unit is EOL you are free to download the Windows drivers from
> docketport.com.
>

That's actually good advice, although WIndows may not be an option for this
user.

Cheers,
Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] Library functions in backend

[Ralph Little]

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:11 AM m. allan noah  wrote:

> Frontends or backends? Either way, I am not opposed to abandoning quirks
> for ancient platforms.
>
>
In this case the suggestion is for backends.
I agree that flushing out ancient code is a good thing in general. I only
worry that SANE is built on some more esoteric platform where this library
is required. In any event, I guess that they could be patched back in for
that platform.

The valid commentary from Zdenek Dohnal there is that the code is ancient
and has likely not been patched for bugs since it was originally included.

Cheers,
Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Ralph Little]

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 11:07 AM Miss Tori  wrote:

> Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was approved to the
> list)
> It definitely has to do with what's going on during the sane_read API
> function.
>
> If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly
>

There are a couple of things that I can think of:

1 - The scan head is hitting the end of travel and is slipping the belt or
gear, or
2-  Whatever motor settings being specified are out of spec for the motor.

Can you confirm is this happens when the scan head is at the end of travel?
If not, then I suspect that the motor is having some problems with the
settings used by the backend to drive the motor.

Cheers,
Ralph

Re: [sane-devel] Library functions in backend

[m. allan noah]

Frontends or backends? Either way, I am not opposed to abandoning quirks
for ancient platforms.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 12:29 PM Ralph Little  wrote:

> There has been a proposal to remove the library replacement functions from
> the backend repo.
> https://gitlab.com/sane-project/frontends/-/merge_requests/11
>
> On the surface, this seems sensible. I can't see that there are many if
> any platforms that the backends repo is built on that wouldn't have these
> functions. In the past, there have certainly been non-standards conformant
> variants (like snprint() on Windows which I believe is now fixed).
>
> What are the general views here? Are there some platform that would still
> require some of these functions?
>
> Cheers,
> Ralph
>


-- 
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of
my hand"

[sane-devel] DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises

[Miss Tori]

Update to my mailing below (I deleted it before it was approved to the 
list)


It definitely has to do with what's going on during the sane_read API 
function.


If I issue scanimage -T,  it will start clicking instantly

# scanimage --output-file=scan.jpg -vv
[13:50:58.250725] [genesys] WARNING: Your scanner is not fully supported 
or at least


scanimage: scanning image 1284 pixels wide and variable height at 8 
bits/pixel

scanimage: acquiring gray frame
scanimage: min/max graylevel value = 0/227
scanimage: sane_read: Error during device I/O
Closing device
Calling sane_exit
scanimage: finished



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:DocketPORT 487 - Making loud noises
Date:   Thu, 9 Feb 2023 13:05:42 -0500
From:   Miss Tori 
To: sane-devel@alioth-lists.debian.net



Device will scan with the scanimage command but towards the end of the 
sheet, when I assume transferring data, the scanner starts ticking and I 
get an I/O error. I will continue to troubleshoot, but wanted to get 
this out here in case someone has an answer




# cat /etc/debian_version
bookworm/sid

# uname -r
6.1.0-3-amd64

# lsusb
Bus 003 Device 009: ID 1dcc:4810 Document Capture Technologies Inc. 
DocketPORT 487


# sane-find-scanner
found possible USB scanner (vendor=0x1dcc [Document Capture Technologies 
Inc.], product=0x4810 [DocketPORT 487], chip=GL842) at libusb:002:020


# scanimage -V
scanimage (sane-backends) 1.1.1-debian; backend version 1.1.1

# scanimage -L
device `genesys:libusb:003:009' is a DCT DocketPORT 487 flatbed scanner
12:24:23.678043] [genesys] WARNING: Your scanner is not fully supported 
or at least had only limited testing. Please be careful and report any 
failure/success to sane-devel@alioth-lists.debian.net. Please provide as 
many details as possible, e.g. the exact name of your scanner and what 
does (not) work.


# demsg
usb 2-1: new high-speed USB device number 20 using xhci_hcd
usb 2-1: New USB device found, idVendor=1dcc, idProduct=4810, bcdDevice= 
3.02

usb 2-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=10, Product=11, SerialNumber=12
usb 2-1: Product: DocketPORT 487
usb 2-1: Manufacturer: Document Capture Technologies Inc.
usb 2-1: SerialNumber: 487


SANE_DEBUG_GENESYS=1
scanimage -T
scanimage: scanning image 1284 pixels wide and variable height at 8 
bits/pixel

scanimage: acquiring gray frame, 8 bits/sample
scanimage: reading one scanline, 1284 bytes... PASS
scanimage: reading one byte... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 2 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 4 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 8 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 16 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 32 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 64 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 128 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 256 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 512 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 1024 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 2048 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 2047 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 1023 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 511 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 255 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 127 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 63 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 31 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 15 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 7 bytes... PASS
scanimage: stepped read, 3 bytes... PASS

[sane-devel] Library functions in backend

[Ralph Little]

There has been a proposal to remove the library replacement functions from
the backend repo.
https://gitlab.com/sane-project/frontends/-/merge_requests/11

On the surface, this seems sensible. I can't see that there are many if any
platforms that the backends repo is built on that wouldn't have these
functions. In the past, there have certainly been non-standards conformant
variants (like snprint() on Windows which I believe is now fixed).

What are the general views here? Are there some platform that would still
require some of these functions?

Cheers,
Ralph