Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
On 2/24/20 8:09 AM, Peter Willis wrote: > Hello, Greetings! > The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. > > As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and > oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. > > I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. > > Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a > short blurb about how they use it and why. I had been using CentOS 5.x (and 4.X before that) for the base image in a large High Performance Cluster (many hundreds of nodes) with Red Hat as the infrastructure and important nodes but couldn't afford to pay for that many nodes, especially since they were so minimalist. It was a government institution that did everything from weather forecasts to military parts modeling. Red Hat released RHEL6 in November of 2010. I had a /really/ strong need to move packages to EL6 for a new workload but again couldn't afford the price tag (I can't remember how many nodes we had at that time...I think over 300...we grew even more over the years). SL6 released 4-ish months later in March 2011. I had been pestered to move to it but I wanted to stick with CentOS because I knew it and was a little bit involved in the community at the time. But there were a lot of issues and they were re-tooling their build scripts. Finally in May, I gave in and made the switch with the plan to revert back to CentOS6 when it released. During the installations, I realized I goofed and my scripts that figured out if it was on a RH host or a CentOS host were "failing" the check and defaulting to RH...except they weren't failing...I thought it was a fluke or something else was really broken so I dug into it. That's when I realized that SL was actually closer to RH then CentOS was! A lot of my "proofs" for this claim require quite a bit of setup or configuration, but the easiest one that anyone can test is simply "yum update --security". SL publishes a security channel, CentOS doesn't! Which something even that simple means less work as I no longer needed to scrape and parse out a massive list of CVE's to determine which packages I needed to install (at the time I had to apply security patches daily but I didn't like patching/updating packages just because it was an update...if something broke I wanted as few things to check for as I could. I'm at a different job now and still have the same restriction though). Soon I ditched a TON of custom scripts for CentOS because it all just worked great on SL the same as it did the RH hosts! Bonus, RH6/SL6 was a lot more stable for us and let us do a few things even better so I expanded the cluster a few hundred more nodes by the end of 2011. By the time CentOS 6 released in July 2011, I had zero desire to go back. Today, I'm still the admin of big High Performance Clusters for a well known economic modeling and research institution. Things that management really cares about that they want to be able to pickup the phone and yell at someone or get warm fuzzys about support contracts (eg: Ceph), those are still RH. All the servers I care about being close to RH but can't justify in the budget for (aka management won't pay for) RH are SL 6/7. At home, I run SL7 for all my servers (Lubuntu for my desktop/laptops because I really like LXQT). I've even done the CERN charity donations before where I send thank you notes to the SL devs in the notes fields (no idea if they got them or not). :-D We are just now exploring RH8/CentOS8. I've got a single RH8 VM I'm doing testing in and I'm building a CentOS 8 later this week. There's little reason for us to move to 8 at this moment...the bigger push is that we still have a MASSIVE system (~100 nodes and quite important) that is SL6 based and we need to get off of it by end of summer (both hardware support ending and EL6 being EOL in November). So I'm trying to figure out if I am going to take the easy path to SL7 that I know I can do or if I jump it to 8... *shrug* So that's more than just a short blurb...guess I will shut up now. :-D ~Stack~ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
Hi: I use SL because it is currently the only Distro allowed on one of our networks. I prefer ubuntu because of the package management system, and because of the large number opackages available. I use SL (both 6 and 7) for DFT calculations. Art Edwards -- Arthur H. Edwards edwards...@fastmail.fm On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, at 7:45 AM, teastl...@carolina.rr.com wrote: > Hello, > I chose to install SL because it was forked from Red Hat and thus compatible > with the Intel Quartus FPGA IDE. I also liked that it came from a purely > scientific community. > Regards, > Tom Eastlake > Cleveland, OH, USA > > - > From: "Peter Willis" > To: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov > Cc: > Sent: Monday February 24 2020 9:09:27AM > Subject: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why? > > Hello, > > The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. > As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and > oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. > > I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. > > Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a short > blurb about how they use it and why. > Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this list. > > Peter > > > > >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF (as > >hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from Argentina. > > > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply knows. > > > >Will look forward to move to another distribution. > > > > >> >>I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent >> >>on both competent software and competent laboratory science, >> >>both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to >> >>transform that knowledge into products and services for >> >>my customers. >> >>
Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
We have used it since SL 4.1 As a small engineering manufacturing company we rely on its stability. As an old Unix guy it was easy. We have added a lot of packages to it for various Engineering projects and with Maria DB is runs our manufacturing operation. We have a few thousand scripts to do odd jobs at night. We use it as a server for our few Widows machines that cannot be trusted with critical stuff. Our file system is huge for a company as we have been shoveling project files and part libraries into it for 20 years. We have tried Cent 8 and it is a miserable example of cute but disfunctional desk top. It could not be connected to any of our other machines and the number of mouse clicks to do anything is horrible. Fedora was a mistake. Driven by people with no commercial experience. When the Boss is breathing down your neck and asking why the invoices didn't go out on time or worse yet is paychecks that are late Friday Noon and the guys in the shop are not very understanding. What we have been looking at is PC Linux because it still uses the traditional Unix boot scheme. To reorganize something that worded well with a supervisery bunch of code is nonsense. So it allows a server to boot a bit faster. We reboot our server once every 6 mo. It's down just enough to allow a cleaning and checking of fans / filters. So why bother. So my attitude is bqd but I can rest easy and not worry about a call in the middle of the night saying the server is down and we need it Monday @ 7 AM. Larry Linder On Mon, 2020-02-24 at 15:32 +, Tapia, Ron wrote: > Hi, > > Speaking as an individual, I have two primary motivations for using SL. The > first is that I feel that if I were to report a bug or contribute a fix or > answer a question on this mailing list, I would be contributing in some small > way to the HEP/SL community. The second is that I feel that the focus and > interests of the SL maintainers might be aligned mine. For example, I imagine > that a LaTeX problem might be a minor crisis for SL maintainers, but a blip > for Red Hat/CentOS. I suppose the decision not to continue SL has been made, > but it's a pity. I wonder if it was considered not just as a technical > project, but a form of outreach. > > Around research computing and central IT here at Penn State, both RHEL7 and > SL7 are supported and in use. RHEL7 is used where a support contract is a > must. > > I'm not sure what I'll do after SL7, but I'm certain that I will look into > Debian as an option as well as Centos8. > > Cheers, > > Ron > > > From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov > on behalf of Serguei Mokhov > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 9:49 AM > To: Peter Willis > Cc: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov > Subject: Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why? > > In the Gina Cody School of Engineering and Computer Science, at > Concordia University, Montreal, we've been using SL since around SL5 > for our 100+ servers, 1000+ lab desktops (dual boot), and recent HPC > facility Speed (concordia.ca/ginacody/aits/speed) loaded with all kind > of engineering and parallel processing packages and stuff for > deeplearning, etc. -- the packages are compiled on an NFS-mounted > software partition at all locations. > > Why? Primarily because SL was championed by Fermilab and CERN and > provided support for minor version releases unlike CentOS. And we've > been a RH shop in the past for all of our infrastructure for a long > time. SL was the best stable option compared to the alternatives back > then and CentOS faced uncertainty. We tried Fedora in the past for the > desktops, but maintaining that many lab desktops every semester from > bleeding edge updates breaking stuff too often, forced us to move > desktops off Fedora to SL as well. > > Still using it all today, but for EL8 we will be something of an > adventure I guess at some point in the future. > > -s > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Willis wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. > > > > As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and > > oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. > > > > > > > > I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. > > > > > > > > Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a > > short blurb about how they use it and why. > > > > Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this > > list. > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF > > >(as hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from > > >Argentina. > > > > > > > > > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply > > >knows. > > > > > > > > > >Will look forward to move to another distribution.
Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
Hi, Speaking as an individual, I have two primary motivations for using SL. The first is that I feel that if I were to report a bug or contribute a fix or answer a question on this mailing list, I would be contributing in some small way to the HEP/SL community. The second is that I feel that the focus and interests of the SL maintainers might be aligned mine. For example, I imagine that a LaTeX problem might be a minor crisis for SL maintainers, but a blip for Red Hat/CentOS. I suppose the decision not to continue SL has been made, but it's a pity. I wonder if it was considered not just as a technical project, but a form of outreach. Around research computing and central IT here at Penn State, both RHEL7 and SL7 are supported and in use. RHEL7 is used where a support contract is a must. I'm not sure what I'll do after SL7, but I'm certain that I will look into Debian as an option as well as Centos8. Cheers, Ron From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Serguei Mokhov Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 9:49 AM To: Peter Willis Cc: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov Subject: Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why? In the Gina Cody School of Engineering and Computer Science, at Concordia University, Montreal, we've been using SL since around SL5 for our 100+ servers, 1000+ lab desktops (dual boot), and recent HPC facility Speed (concordia.ca/ginacody/aits/speed) loaded with all kind of engineering and parallel processing packages and stuff for deeplearning, etc. -- the packages are compiled on an NFS-mounted software partition at all locations. Why? Primarily because SL was championed by Fermilab and CERN and provided support for minor version releases unlike CentOS. And we've been a RH shop in the past for all of our infrastructure for a long time. SL was the best stable option compared to the alternatives back then and CentOS faced uncertainty. We tried Fedora in the past for the desktops, but maintaining that many lab desktops every semester from bleeding edge updates breaking stuff too often, forced us to move desktops off Fedora to SL as well. Still using it all today, but for EL8 we will be something of an adventure I guess at some point in the future. -s On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Willis wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. > > As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and > oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. > > > > I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. > > > > Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a short > blurb about how they use it and why. > > Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this list. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF (as > >hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from Argentina. > > > > > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply knows. > > > > > >Will look forward to move to another distribution. > > > > > > > > >>I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent > >>on both competent software and competent laboratory science, > >>both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to > >>transform that knowledge into products and services for > >>my customers. > >> -- Serguei Mokhov https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttp-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.cs.concordia.ca-5F-2D7Emokhov-2526d-253DDwIFaQ-2526c-253DgRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA-2526r-253Dgd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-2DP-2DpgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A-2526m-253DReXrKueW8ZKy6ZeDrhbuU0jFxocBkwAtzvgZ8Lw2ARo-2526s-253Dbe7he2wCrlv4hIwX-5Fh0scVYIki4Qb7seECAg7OOc-2DMY-2526e-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Crdt12-2540PSU.EDU-257C9fb96135f1114e1bf6b108d7b938cfd4-257C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e-257C0-257C0-257C637181525973769014-26amp-3Bsdata-3DefZ-252FN-252FksB4JxCeCgsEBmSkFNIfgbSPGAiP70rfaAVes-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0-3D=DwIF-g=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=8TdfyJ1u8MnWKcS6ydkH1brzzoEzq1IZRhMef5YNV1I=hPRLpwZu7HwRGmm7_TBUfJv0w0CSwjuGooVPdc6YHzI=
Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
At my previous job, we used it for microprocessor development, along with commercial tools and the Torque/Moab batch queuing system. The software tools team used it as well. I used it on al our home computers for several years but eventually switched to Fedora to be able to use more recent desktop software. -Miles On Feb 24, 2020, at 08:09, Peter Willis wrote: Caution: EXTERNAL email Hello, The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a short blurb about how they use it and why. Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this list. Peter >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF (as >hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from Argentina. > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply knows. > >Will look forward to move to another distribution. > > >>I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent >>on both competent software and competent laboratory science, >>both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to >>transform that knowledge into products and services for >>my customers. >>
Re: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
In the Gina Cody School of Engineering and Computer Science, at Concordia University, Montreal, we've been using SL since around SL5 for our 100+ servers, 1000+ lab desktops (dual boot), and recent HPC facility Speed (concordia.ca/ginacody/aits/speed) loaded with all kind of engineering and parallel processing packages and stuff for deeplearning, etc. -- the packages are compiled on an NFS-mounted software partition at all locations. Why? Primarily because SL was championed by Fermilab and CERN and provided support for minor version releases unlike CentOS. And we've been a RH shop in the past for all of our infrastructure for a long time. SL was the best stable option compared to the alternatives back then and CentOS faced uncertainty. We tried Fedora in the past for the desktops, but maintaining that many lab desktops every semester from bleeding edge updates breaking stuff too often, forced us to move desktops off Fedora to SL as well. Still using it all today, but for EL8 we will be something of an adventure I guess at some point in the future. -s On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Willis wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. > > As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and > oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. > > > > I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. > > > > Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a short > blurb about how they use it and why. > > Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this list. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF (as > >hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from Argentina. > > > > > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply knows. > > > > > >Will look forward to move to another distribution. > > > > > > > > >>I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent > >>on both competent software and competent laboratory science, > >>both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to > >>transform that knowledge into products and services for > >>my customers. > >> -- Serguei Mokhov https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.concordia.ca_-7Emokhov=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=ReXrKueW8ZKy6ZeDrhbuU0jFxocBkwAtzvgZ8Lw2ARo=be7he2wCrlv4hIwX_h0scVYIki4Qb7seECAg7OOc-MY= https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cciff.ca=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=ReXrKueW8ZKy6ZeDrhbuU0jFxocBkwAtzvgZ8Lw2ARo=r1CyWyPBkhOKlYHXLLBrBRzhyvOXZfdHagfuQ1DQWDk= | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mdreams-2Dstage.com=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=ReXrKueW8ZKy6ZeDrhbuU0jFxocBkwAtzvgZ8Lw2ARo=GqE1OMX9RmXnxHlwLxQhCFqwgZdIh5nqA-PoNF1J30c= https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__marf.sf.net=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=ReXrKueW8ZKy6ZeDrhbuU0jFxocBkwAtzvgZ8Lw2ARo=AChVu3ppzcRMQhwedztVKVDCZpdn7eviggK3B8gom7Y= | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sf.net_projects_marf=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=ReXrKueW8ZKy6ZeDrhbuU0jFxocBkwAtzvgZ8Lw2ARo=lBCv7stSS6iCundVO4eoQ9BsgR8UV294lSmdDozJ8Q8=
RE: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
Hello, I chose to install SL because it was forked from Red Hat and thus compatible with the Intel Quartus FPGA IDE. I also liked that it came from a purely scientific community.Regards, Tom Eastlake Cleveland, OH, USA -From: "Peter Willis" To: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov Cc: Sent: Monday February 24 2020 9:09:27AM Subject: Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why? * Hello, The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a short blurb about how they use it and why. Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this list. Peter >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF (as hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from Argentina. > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply knows. > >Will look forward to move to another distribution. > > >>I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent >>on both competent software and competent laboratory science, >>both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to >>transform that knowledge into products and services for >>my customers. >>
Who Uses Scientific Linux, and How/Why?
Hello, The variation in uses of t Scientific Linux is quite interesting. As mentioned before, we are using it for fluid dynamics modelling and oceanography, in the context of parallel computing with OpenMP and MPICH. I am curious to see what everyone else have been using it for. Perhaps, if it’s not too much trouble, people on the list might give a short blurb about how they use it and why. Maybe also mention others they know who are using it who are not on this list. Peter >I'm no scientist, just an electronics guy who do a lot of research in RF (as >hobby, mostly testing antennas for ham radio in VHF bands) from Argentina. > >Fot SL the most "well done" linux distribution, for people who simply knows. > >Will look forward to move to another distribution. > > >>I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent >>on both competent software and competent laboratory science, >>both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to >>transform that knowledge into products and services for >>my customers. >>
Re: Is Scientfic Linux Still Active as a Distribution?
+1 On 2/22/20 5:41 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: I'm an independent electronics inventor, heavily dependent on both competent software and competent laboratory science, both for the knowledge I depend on and the tools I use to transform that knowledge into products and services for my customers. SL has been a very good tool for that. Thanks to all who have contributed. I depend on "benign neglect" for a stable computing platform - just enough funding and staffing to fix urgent problems, but not continuously mutate the platform to conform to ephemeral fashion or management whim. I moved /from/ Windows to gain that stability, even if that limits the choice of new widgets I can attach to my (older) computers. I have plenty of replacement-spare old widgets, and I don't need the distraction of a rapidly mutating platform optimized for market churn and planned-obsolescence sales. I'm actually glad that Microsoft, Apple, and IBM are busily churning those markets, because it keeps their customers distracted and not bothering me with those distractions while I think and work. The hardware cast off by the fashion-chasers is still abundant on eBay, and I have enough of it to last me for life (except for the batteries and backlights for my old Thinkpads). I presume there are enough like me, some of whom are on this list, that we can continue to carve out a community space on top of CentOS, focused on inquiry and reliability. If CentOS 9 or 10 or 11 goes off the rails, there are enough of us here to tweak CentOS 7 or 8 into something we can continue to use, just like Linux was "in the good old days". While "security by obscurity" is not optimum, I presume a smaller community of impoverished science geeks is a less tempting target for professional software criminals than million-dollar IT departments for billion-dollar corporations and governments, or billions of hapless consumers. We are part of the global target, but we are unlikely to attract specific attention from the bad guys. And while we still benefit from the use of servers at Fermilabs for our "static" distro and our active mailing list, perhaps we should have a backup plan for migration in case some bureaucrat decides to pull the plug on us. That has /always/ been a risk for what we do here; we are one presidential tweet away from Saint Louis USDA exile. As a community of scientific, like-minded Linux users, let's begin to prepare a rudimentary plan B, and hope that we never need to implement it. Keith
