Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
Thank you for such a good information. I am saving this, as the text books would never tell you. The problem I am experiencing at the moment is that when i drive the jeep at speed for 15 o 20 min. the engine cuts off. Then after waiting for a 10 minutes it restarts. Then it cuts off in shorter time. Do you think replacing the injection pump would solve the problem? fox --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:27 AM Hello , I am replying directly to Fox's injection pump failures, and from my experiences, First i would like to state that 99% of pump failures are from microscopic dirt both in bio-diesel and wvo. I am talking about dirt particles that pass through 1 and 2 micron filters. these tiny specs slowly increase the tolerances and gap within the gear pumps of common rail fuel systems and also polishes the pistons of inline mechanical pumps. The problem slowly creaps up on you after many hrs and miles, You may first notice hard starting only on warm engines, reason being the slow cranking speeds and low viscosity of hot fuel tend to bypass internally inside the pump creating a bypass situation. If the engine is switched over to pure petro diesel ( hot and thinner), the problem can even become worse for starting . Fuel becomes very thin and loses viscosity with heat. My suggestion is to centerfuge all home made fuel. This would give you the exact same cleanliness of petro diesel which has been also centrifuged. When I ran 75,000 litres of 1 micron filtered biodiesel through a 2006 common rail Cummins, I ended up with a slightly longer cranking time now after two years ( only noticable when the engine is hot), My fuel sample that i thought was perfect from washing and filtering showed up trace residual dirt after spinning it in a test centrefuge!! Definitly food for thought ehh? . Rod Roth Cranbrook BC -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090728/80686b2c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
That sounds to me like it's starving for fuel. Whether the injection pump, or if it has a separate lift pump at fault or whether it would be a fuel filter, I don't know. There's also usually a small filter/sock in the fuel tank that often gets forgotten/neglected that can cause problems. I would suggest making SURE that the injection pump is getting good fuel before suspecting it, since it's such a spendy part. That problem also doesn't sound like an injection pump problem to me, but I don't claim expert status on them On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:16 AM, fox mulder[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for such a good information. I am saving this, as the text books would never tell you. The problem I am experiencing at the moment is that when i drive the jeep at speed for 15 o 20 min. the engine cuts off. Then after waiting for a 10 minutes it restarts. Then it cuts off in shorter time. Do you think replacing the injection pump would solve the problem? fox --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:27 AM Hello , I am replying directly to Fox's injection pump failures, and from my experiences, First i would like to state that 99% of pump failures are from microscopic dirt both in bio-diesel and wvo. I am talking about dirt particles that pass through 1 and 2 micron filters. these tiny specs slowly increase the tolerances and gap within the gear pumps of common rail fuel systems and also polishes the pistons of inline mechanical pumps. The problem slowly creaps up on you after many hrs and miles, You may first notice hard starting only on warm engines, reason being the slow cranking speeds and low viscosity of hot fuel tend to bypass internally inside the pump creating a bypass situation. If the engine is switched over to pure petro diesel ( hot and thinner), the problem can even become worse for starting . Fuel becomes very thin and loses viscosity with heat. My suggestion is to centerfuge all home made fuel. This would give you the exact same cleanliness of petro diesel which has been also centrifuged. When I ran 75,000 litres of 1 micron filtered biodiesel through a 2006 common rail Cummins, I ended up with a slightly longer cranking time now after two years ( only noticable when the engine is hot), My fuel sample that i thought was perfect from washing and filtering showed up trace residual dirt after spinning it in a test centrefuge!! Definitly food for thought ehh? . Rod Roth Cranbrook BC -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090728/80686b2c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump
list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090729/c2e4912f/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Things you're not supposed to know about Swine flu vaccine
get the jab -- because it's all paid by the taxpayers. #9 - When people start dying in larger numbers from the swine flu, rest assured that many of them will be the very people who got the swine flu vaccine. Doctors will explain this away with their typical Big Pharma logic: The number saved is far greater than the number lost. Of course, the number saved is entirely fictional... imaginary... and exists only in their own warped heads. #10 - The swine flu vaccine centers that will crop up all over the world in the coming months aren't completely useless: They will provide an easy way to identify large groups of really stupid people. (Too bad there isn't some sort of blue dye that we could tag 'em with for future reference... ) The lottery, they say, is a tax on people who can't do math. Similarly, flu vaccines are a tax on people who don't understand health. Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who could not hear the music. -Angela Monet Dona L Wheeler www.ChironLightMuse .com Volunteer Human Rights Investigator Citizens Commission On Human Rights Roanoke, Va. 24018 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 67 New Members 2 New FilesVisit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. .. __,_._,___ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090729/5f0ab461/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
Hello Rod Hello , I am replying directly to Fox's injection pump failures, and from my experiences, First i would like to state that 99% of pump failures are from microscopic dirt both in bio-diesel and wvo. I am talking about dirt particles that pass through 1 and 2 micron filters. these tiny specs slowly increase the tolerances and gap within the gear pumps of common rail fuel systems and also polishes the pistons of inline mechanical pumps. The problem slowly creaps up on you after many hrs and miles, You may first notice hard starting only on warm engines, reason being the slow cranking speeds and low viscosity of hot fuel tend to bypass internally inside the pump creating a bypass situation. If the engine is switched over to pure petro diesel ( hot and thinner), the problem can even become worse for starting . Fuel becomes very thin and loses viscosity with heat. My suggestion is to centerfuge all home made fuel. This would give you the exact same cleanliness of petro diesel which has been also centrifuged. When I ran 75,000 litres of 1 micron filtered biodiesel through a 2006 common rail Cummins, I ended up with a slightly longer cranking time now after two years ( only noticable when the engine is hot), My fuel sample that i thought was perfect from washing and filtering showed up trace residual dirt after spinning it in a test centrefuge!! Definitly food for thought ehh? This doesn't altogether make sense to me. You talk of 1 and 2 micron filters - are these the original filters as specified by the fuel system manufacturer? If so, the implication would be that smaller particles that pass through the filter aren't significant. From what I've seen of them, the fuel injection equipment manufacturers know what they're at when they specify filters. You put the cleanliness of pure petro-diesel on one side and biodiesel and WVO on the other side, with all the problems and microscopic dirt coming from the biodiesel and WVO. But if pure petro-diesel is really as clean as you claim, why would it need an engine filter at all? Is it really clean? What I know about it is this: A 1998 review paper on fuel lubricity worldwide2 showed that diesel fuel in the US and Canada is some of the poorest lubricity fuel found in the entire world (see Figure 1 attached). Of the 27 countries surveyed, only Canada, Switzerland, Poland and Taiwan had poorer lubricity fuel than the US. With a mean fuel lubricity of just under the recommended specification of an HFRR wear scar diameter of 460 microns, fully 50% of the US fuel was found to be above that recommended by equipment manufacturers. 2 Fuel Lubricity Reviewed, Paul Lacey, Southwest Research Institute, Steve Howell, MARC-IV Consulting, Inc., SAE paper number 982567, International Fall Fuels and Lubricants Meeting and Exposition, October 19-22, 1998, San Francisco, California. http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Lubricity.PDF Methinks that's what causes wear and scarring, rather than nano-dirt. That was 11 years ago, before ULSD (which is even worse). Biodiesel is seen as the solution, not the cause. So much for lubricity, but I don't think petro-diesel is very clean either. I've been told that truck drivers in the US regard the fuel with suspicion - they don't just fill up at the gas station, they check the fuel first, including running some over their hands and rubbing it between their fingers and so on. Maybe it's got cleaner in the meantime, but has the whole distribution system also got cleaner? Is it even any drier? You say pure petro-diesel has been centrifuged, and if so, if centrifuging is all it's cracked up to be, it would indeed be clean when it left the centrifuge, but it's a long way from there to the pump at the gas station. I'm not impressed by centrifuging, IMHO there's no need for it. This is from our website: We've had a number of reports that centrifuges give poor results compared with normal settling, and especially compared with washing -- washing centrifuged fuel has yielded very soapy wash-water, so obviously the centrifuging didn't work very well. We have laboratory test results of 'finished' biodiesel made here in Japan in a $70,000 commercial processor. The finished fuel was washed and dried, and then it was centrifuged, and then samples were sent to the lab for testing. But the centrifuged fuel didn't come close to the standards requirements. Our biodiesel surpasses the standards requirements though, made in a $100 homebuilt processor, with no need for a centrifuge. You don't need a centrifuge. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#centr Our biodiesel was centrifuged by the same people who centrifuged the commercial stuff, but there wasn't any residue. I don't believe microscopic dirt in biodiesel but not in petro-diesel causes pump failures. If you make the fuel properly, settle it and separate it properly, and wash it properly
Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump
Hi Fox Sorry you're having trouble. What kind of biodiesel are you using? Best Keith Thank you Mark for good infomation. At present i am having the same problem with jeep cherokee 2.5 TD 1997. It's OK with the shorter trips. The engine switches off when it is driven at above or at 50 mies per hour for some time. After waiting for 15 to 20 minutes it restarts and drives at 50 mph for a while and then it cuts off. Do you think if I replace he injection pump, the problem will be solved. fox --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Thompson, Mark L. (Boise IPG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Thompson, Mark L. (Boise IPG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 6:36 PM The location of the sensor, on my 98 Jetta at least, in inside the injector pump. Just under the access cover, it is submerged in diesel. With the right tool, it is only about a 5 min job to replace. The temperature can be read using a VagCom interface and software for a PC. What symptoms you describe are common for a cracked temp sensor. Intermittent or complete failure of the sensor. Highly unlikely you lost your ECM. VW TDI ECM's are so hyper sensitive, they will shutdown the engine if there is any remote possibility of damaging the engine. As for a bad injector pump, id be skeptical of that. I would guess you had a bad sensor and the shop misdiagnosed it. Not surprising when it comes to TDI's, Dealers, and $$$. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fox mulder Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:47 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump Dear JQ, I am refering to the electronic temperature sensor that senses the temperature of the diesel that goes to the injection pump. All in all it's the injection system that is affected by the biodeisel. What action did you take James? Did you carry out the electronic diagnosis? When i had passat diagnosed. I was told that I needed to replace the whole computer module and the injection pump. The cost of this was astronomical.I just got rid of the car. It seems i need to do the same with the jeep. fox --- On Mon, 27/7/09, James Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: James Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Monday, 27 July, 2009, 11:29 PM Fox, Interesting info. I had a similar problem using a combination of diesel and WVO in an 85 VW TDI Jetta. Where I would start it on diesel and switch to WVO after the engine was up to temp. It died at a red light one day and I had to have it towed. However an hour later it started right up. It was also hard to start if you had turned it off and the engine was warm. A 15 - 30 min wait and it would start. What temp sensor are you referring to?? Thanks. JQ -Original Message- From: fox mulder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:07:17 + (GMT) Dear All, I used 100% biodiesel in VW passat and jeep cherokee limited for the last few years. Prior to jeep I used it in passat. after three years, I found that the car would cut off and would not start. after waiting for 10 to 15 minutes it would start and go for a few miles, then it would cut off again. I paid a lot of money to have it diagnosed. They found that the injection pump and the temperature sensor need replacing. After using th biosiesel in jeep for two years, I am encountering exactly the same problem. Has anyone else experienced the same situation as me? If so, would you advise me as to what you have learnt. fox ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
Erik, I had my 85 Jetta TDI injector pump rebuilt after it exhibited 20 - 30 min no start states. So, any fuel temp sensors should have been replaced.?? It now, starts and will run at idle. But, it bogs down whilst driving; as though there was a slight restriction in the fuel line. I'll check for the presence of a secondary fuel filter. Gentlemen, this has been very helpful. Thanks, JQ -Original Message- From: Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:50:20 -0700 That sounds to me like it's starving for fuel. Whether the injection pump, or if it has a separate lift pump at fault or whether it would be a fuel filter, I don't know. There's also usually a small filter/sock in the fuel tank that often gets forgotten/neglected that can cause problems. I would suggest making SURE that the injection pump is getting good fuel before suspecting it, since it's such a spendy part. That problem also doesn't sound like an injection pump problem to me, but I don't claim expert status on them On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:16 AM, fox mulder[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for such a good information. I am saving this, as the text books would never tell you. The problem I am experiencing at the moment is that when i drive the jeep at speed for 15 o 20 min. the engine cuts off. Then after waiting for a 10 minutes it restarts. Then it cuts off in shorter time. Do you think replacing the injection pump would solve the problem? fox --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:27 AM Hello , I am replying directly to Fox's injection pump failures, and from my experiences, First i would like to state that 99% of pump failures are from microscopic dirt both in bio-diesel and wvo. I am talking about dirt particles that pass through 1 and 2 micron filters. these tiny specs slowly increase the tolerances and gap within the gear pumps of common rail fuel systems and also polishes the pistons of inline mechanical pumps. The problem slowly creaps up on you after many hrs and miles, You may first notice hard starting only on warm engines, reason being the slow cranking speeds and low viscosity of hot fuel tend to bypass internally inside the pump creating a bypass situation. If the engine is switched over to pure petro diesel ( hot and thinner), the problem can even become worse for starting . Fuel becomes very thin and loses viscosity with heat. My suggestion is to centerfuge all home made fuel. This would give you the exact same cleanliness of petro diesel which has been also centrifuged. When I ran 75,000 litres of 1 micron filtered biodiesel through a 2006 common rail Cummins, I ended up with a slightly longer cranking time now after two years ( only noticable when the engine is hot), My fuel sample that i thought was perfect from washing and filtering showed up trace residual dirt after spinning it in a test centrefuge!! Definitly food for thought ehh? . Rod Roth Cranbrook BC -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090728/80686b2c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
im just going to chime in here as i have about 50 or so diff pieces of equipment and vehicles all runiing b 100 i have yet to have any failure of any kind (im sure i just doomed myself) injection pump related in any of my vehicles or equipment ranging from late seventies to 2007 duramax have you taken the vehicle to someone who could check the onboard comp with a code reader to see if you have any fault codes stored??? i f so it might narrow down your problem area,,, because of the price to replace injection pump i think i would at least have a code reader hooked up to see if you have any injector pump related fault codes Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:16:02 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures Thank you for such a good information. I am saving this, as the text books would never tell you. The problem I am experiencing at the moment is that when i drive the jeep at speed for 15 o 20 min. the engine cuts off. Then after waiting for a 10 minutes it restarts. Then it cuts off in shorter time. Do you think replacing the injection pump would solve the problem? fox --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:27 AM Hello , I am replying directly to Fox's injection pump failures, and from my experiences, First i would like to state that 99% of pump failures are from microscopic dirt both in bio-diesel and wvo. I am talking about dirt particles that pass through 1 and 2 micron filters. these tiny specs slowly increase the tolerances and gap within the gear pumps of common rail fuel systems and also polishes the pistons of inline mechanical pumps. The problem slowly creaps up on you after many hrs and miles, You may first notice hard starting only on warm engines, reason being the slow cranking speeds and low viscosity of hot fuel tend to bypass internally inside the pump creating a bypass situation. If the engine is switched over to pure petro diesel ( hot and thinner), the problem can even become worse for starting . Fuel becomes very thin and loses viscosity with heat. My suggestion is to centerfuge all home made fuel. This would give you the exact same cleanliness of petro diesel which has been also centrifuged. When I ran 75,000 litres of 1 micron filtered biodiesel through a 2006 common rail Cummins, I ended up with a slightly longer cranking time now after two years ( only noticable when the engine is hot), My fuel sample that i thought was perfect from washing and filtering showed up trace residual dirt after spinning it in a test centrefuge!! Definitly food for thought ehh? . Rod Roth Cranbrook BC -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090728/80686b2c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090729/7ae64400/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump
Hi Fox I would start with the computer and sensor. It is likely the ECM is getting bad data from a sensor and cutting the engine to protect it. The jeep should have a ODB-II interface, with a reader you should be able to codes from the ECM. That should go a long way in telling what the ECM is thinking is going on. I have never seen a Injector pump (IP) fail in the described mode, they normally fail in one of two modes. 1) Complete mechanical failure 2) Slow degrading performance. IE starting hot or cold, bad mileage, smoke, etc. The one exception is if the IP is an electronically controlled throttle, one without a mechanical linkage to the accelerator peddle. Internal they a Stepper motor that controls the fuel flow. If these fail they typical just stop working. What you describe should a lot like what is called in the VW world Limp. Where the ECM detects a problem and inhibits the engine from damaging itself. The VW use a drive by wire system where there is no mechanical linkage to the accelerator pedal, so they just reduce the max fuel delivered to the engine. To a point where you can drive 10-20 mph and that's all. With a mechanical linkage system, the typical response to this is to cut fuel to IP. This is done by cutting power to the fuel solenoid on the IP. http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/engine/fi/YANMARVESmall2.GIF On this picture it is the part in the middle right, called magnetic valve. An easy way to check this is with a volt meter or attach a small 12V light bulb to it and ground. Use a very small one, not a tail type bulb, this may be too much draw and you may blow the fuse. It the light goes off when the engine is supposed to be running then the ECM is cutting the fuel system. This has got all the signs of ECM cutting fuel because of bad sensor or bad condition detected. When it runs, does it run normally ? I ask this, because if you have a leak in the turbo/intake system the ECM will also assume the worst and cut the fuel. If it has no high-end power this could indicate a turbo issue. Also who makes the engine, I have never heard of Jeep making a 2.5L Diesel in US. I assume this is a European beast. ? Does the Check engine light come on ? It might blink codes if the ECM is upset. Good luck Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fox mulder Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:47 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump Thank you Mark for good infomation. At present i am having the same problem with jeep cherokee 2.5 TD 1997. It's OK with the shorter trips. The engine switches off when it is driven at above or at 50 mies per hour for some time. After waiting for 15 to 20 minutes it restarts and drives at 50 mph for a while and then it cuts off. Do you think if I replace he injection pump, the problem will be solved. fox --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Thompson, Mark L. (Boise IPG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Thompson, Mark L. (Boise IPG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 6:36 PM The location of the sensor, on my 98 Jetta at least, in inside the injector pump. Just under the access cover, it is submerged in diesel. With the right tool, it is only about a 5 min job to replace. The temperature can be read using a VagCom interface and software for a PC. What symptoms you describe are common for a cracked temp sensor. Intermittent or complete failure of the sensor. Highly unlikely you lost your ECM. VW TDI ECM's are so hyper sensitive, they will shutdown the engine if there is any remote possibility of damaging the engine. As for a bad injector pump, id be skeptical of that. I would guess you had a bad sensor and the shop misdiagnosed it. Not surprising when it comes to TDI's, Dealers, and $$$. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fox mulder Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:47 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump Dear JQ, I am refering to the electronic temperature sensor that senses the temperature of the diesel that goes to the injection pump. All in all it's the injection system that is affected by the biodeisel. What action did you take James? Did you carry out the electronic diagnosis? When i had passat diagnosed. I was told that I needed to replace the whole computer module and the injection pump. The cost of this was astronomical.I just got rid of the car. It seems i need to do the same with the jeep. fox --- On Mon, 27/7/09, James Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: James Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090729/7f265f88/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Zeke Yewdall[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe this is a non-US thing, but here, we didn't get the TDI till '96 in the passat, and '98 in the jetta, so I can't imagine that they were making the TDI a full 10 years earlier in other countries, while still sending the standard turbo diesel's to to the US that had a purely mechanical injection, which to my knowledge did not have a temp sensor. Being a purely mechanical system, my earlier response that the no-start cycles sounded like an electronics issue may not apply to them. Z Yeah, I don't think there were any TDI's back then. James must mean just a standard turbo diesel? The only thing electric on the injection pump that I can think of besides the fuel cut off solenoid would be possibly a cold start advance? Shouldn't be able to cause this problem, however. Any pump that old will be almost purely mechanical, like Zeke was saying. Both the fuel cut off and the cold start advance are simple solenoids, so there's not much there, either. Erik ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
a friend of mine has a chevy 6.5 turbo diesel. he had me check it out because with under 150,000 miles the dealer had replaced the injection pump twice already. with a little research and i found the electronic fuel pump driver mounted on the side of the pump is the problem. when it starts to go, the engine cuts out when its warm, is hard starting, and usually starts after being off for a while. the replacement modules are a little more reliable and there is a kit to move it from under the manifold to above it. replacing it then costs a couple hundred dollars and about 15 minutes. not bad since the dealer would still be selling him another $2000 repair. Erik Lane wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Zeke Yewdall[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe this is a non-US thing, but here, we didn't get the TDI till '96 in the passat, and '98 in the jetta, so I can't imagine that they were making the TDI a full 10 years earlier in other countries, while still sending the standard turbo diesel's to to the US that had a purely mechanical injection, which to my knowledge did not have a temp sensor. Being a purely mechanical system, my earlier response that the no-start cycles sounded like an electronics issue may not apply to them. Z Yeah, I don't think there were any TDI's back then. James must mean just a standard turbo diesel? The only thing electric on the injection pump that I can think of besides the fuel cut off solenoid would be possibly a cold start advance? Shouldn't be able to cause this problem, however. Any pump that old will be almost purely mechanical, like Zeke was saying. Both the fuel cut off and the cold start advance are simple solenoids, so there's not much there, either. Erik ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump
Dear Keith, I am making biodiesel from waste rapeseed oil that has been used to fry fish and chips(fries). I am making methyl ester. I stir wash it three times and I heat and cool it before using it. I started using it in VW passat in 2004/2005. Immediately I noticed loss in power. I continued to use it till july 2007 when I started to have problem with it in that the car would cut off whilst driven at speed. I took it the VW dealer. They carried out the diagnostics. Their report was that computer module linked to temperature sensor and the injection pump need replacing. From 2007 till now I used B100 in Jeep cherokee 2.5 TD. It worked without any problems till a few days ago. I am having the same problem as VW passat two years ago. Incidently, i have looked into VW guide book. It warns against using biodiesel unlesss the car is converted to biodiesel. Otherwise, injection system of the car would be affected. Fox --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:01 PM Hi Fox Sorry you're having trouble. What kind of biodiesel are you using? Best Keith Thank you Mark for good infomation. At present i am having the same problem with jeep cherokee 2.5 TD 1997. It's OK with the shorter trips. The engine switches off when it is driven at above or at 50 mies per hour for some time. After waiting for 15 to 20 minutes it restarts and drives at 50 mph for a while and then it cuts off. Do you think if I replace he injection pump, the problem will be solved. fox --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Thompson, Mark L. (Boise IPG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Thompson, Mark L. (Boise IPG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 6:36 PM The location of the sensor, on my 98 Jetta at least, in inside the injector pump. Just under the access cover, it is submerged in diesel. With the right tool, it is only about a 5 min job to replace. The temperature can be read using a VagCom interface and software for a PC. What symptoms you describe are common for a cracked temp sensor. Intermittent or complete failure of the sensor. Highly unlikely you lost your ECM. VW TDI ECM's are so hyper sensitive, they will shutdown the engine if there is any remote possibility of damaging the engine. As for a bad injector pump, id be skeptical of that. I would guess you had a bad sensor and the shop misdiagnosed it. Not surprising when it comes to TDI's, Dealers, and $$$. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fox mulder Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:47 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump Dear JQ, I am refering to the electronic temperature sensor that senses the temperature of the diesel that goes to the injection pump. All in all it's the injection system that is affected by the biodeisel. What action did you take James? Did you carry out the electronic diagnosis? When i had passat diagnosed. I was told that I needed to replace the whole computer module and the injection pump. The cost of this was astronomical.I just got rid of the car. It seems i need to do the same with the jeep. fox --- On Mon, 27/7/09, James Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: James Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Monday, 27 July, 2009, 11:29 PM Fox, Interesting info. I had a similar problem using a combination of diesel and WVO in an 85 VW TDI Jetta. Where I would start it on diesel and switch to WVO after the engine was up to temp. It died at a red light one day and I had to have it towed. However an hour later it started right up. It was also hard to start if you had turned it off and the engine was warm. A 15 - 30 min wait and it would start. What temp sensor are you referring to?? Thanks. JQ -Original Message- From: fox mulder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] effect of biodiesel on injection pump Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:07:17 + (GMT) Dear All, I used 100% biodiesel in VW passat and jeep cherokee limited for the last few years. Prior to jeep I used it in passat.
Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures
the symptoms you mentioned is quite common indicator of fuel pump failure. The interval between stoppage will become shorter as the pump becomes more worn down. You can change the pump or you can get it service. Here in Malaysia, common rail pump servicing is not common yet as the equipment to do so is very expensive. So the practice is to change the fuel pump, injectors as well as the ecu . Estimated cost is now in the region of RM2 for parts(USD 5k plus) From: fox mulder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:16:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures Thank you for such a good information. I am saving this, as the text books would never tell you. The problem I am experiencing at the moment is that when i drive the jeep at speed for 15 o 20 min. the engine cuts off. Then after waiting for a 10 minutes it restarts. Then it cuts off in shorter time. Do you think replacing the injection pump would solve the problem? fox --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Roderick Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Causes of fuel injection pump failures To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:27 AM Hello , I am replying directly to Fox's injection pump failures, and from my experiences, First i would like to state that 99% of pump failures are from microscopic dirt both in bio-diesel and wvo. I am talking about dirt particles that pass through 1 and 2 micron filters. these tiny specs slowly increase the tolerances and gap within the gear pumps of common rail fuel systems and also polishes the pistons of inline mechanical pumps. The problem slowly creaps up on you after many hrs and miles, You may first notice hard starting only on warm engines, reason being the slow cranking speeds and low viscosity of hot fuel tend to bypass internally inside the pump creating a bypass situation. If the engine is switched over to pure petro diesel ( hot and thinner), the problem can even become worse for starting . Fuel becomes very thin and loses viscosity with heat. My suggestion is to centerfuge all home made fuel. This would give you the exact same cleanliness of petro diesel which has been also centrifuged. When I ran 75,000 litres of 1 micron filtered biodiesel through a 2006 common rail Cummins, I ended up with a slightly longer cranking time now after two years ( only noticable when the engine is hot), My fuel sample that i thought was perfect from washing and filtering showed up trace residual dirt after spinning it in a test centrefuge!! Definitly food for thought ehh? . Rod Roth Cranbrook BC -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090728/80686b2c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090729/34a570a9/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Things you're not supposed to know about Swine flu vaccine
(zero liability). #6 - No swine flu vaccine works as well as vitamin D to protect you from influenza. That's an inconvenient scientific fact that the U.S. government, the FDA and Big Pharma hope the people never realize. #7 - Even if the swine flu vaccine actually works, mathematically speaking if everyone else around you gets the vaccine, you don't need one! (Because it can't spread through the population you hang with.) So even if you believe in the vaccine, all you need to do is encourage your friends to go get vaccinated.. .. #8 - Drug companies are making billions of dollars from the production of swine flu vaccines. That money comes out of your pocket -- even if you don't get the jab -- because it's all paid by the taxpayers. #9 - When people start dying in larger numbers from the swine flu, rest assured that many of them will be the very people who got the swine flu vaccine. Doctors will explain this away with their typical Big Pharma logic: The number saved is far greater than the number lost. Of course, the number saved is entirely fictional... imaginary... and exists only in their own warped heads. #10 - The swine flu vaccine centers that will crop up all over the world in the coming months aren't completely useless: They will provide an easy way to identify large groups of really stupid people. (Too bad there isn't some sort of blue dye that we could tag 'em with for future reference... ) The lottery, they say, is a tax on people who can't do math. Similarly, flu vaccines are a tax on people who don't understand health. Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who could not hear the music. -Angela Monet Dona L Wheeler www.ChironLightMuse .com Volunteer Human Rights Investigator Citizens Commission On Human Rights Roanoke, Va. 24018 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 67 New Members 2 New FilesVisit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. .. __,_._,___ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090729/5f0ab461/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
