Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
1.9.2011 16:12, Tim kirjoitti: I've often wondered how such languages are typed. Whether the keys pressed to construct a character relate to drawing certain shaped lines in certain places (a stroke here, a stroke there), some sort spelling out the word that the character represents, Both of these are in common use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_input_methods_for_computers -- Markku Kolkka markku.kol...@iki.fi -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 04:17:00PM -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: I don't think I've hit the freezing-emacs bug. What triggers it? What's the BZ #? In my case it happens whenever the Emacs window is minimized and then reopened. I have to maximize it and then select a buffer each time to get it back to normal. I've not filed a BZ for it personally. -- Darryl L. Pierce, Sr. Software Engineer @ Red Hat, Inc. Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/ pgpgYWZyFcXGK.pgp Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
I have FC15 on three machines with different hardware - different CPUs, different graphics hardware. As installed, all three were kinda OK. After recent updates all three now take about 5 seconds to change windows. A warning box popping up is a minimum 10s activity - 5 seconds to appear, and 5 to dismiss it. I find it hardware to believe I have three special case machines which all hit the same obscure bug. How can you call this a productive environment? Are you serving the user folders over NFS, by any chance? - Mike -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/31/2011 09:02 PM, Tim wrote: On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 12:36 -0600, Julius Smith wrote: using the mouse is slow, so we need to be able to define a shortcut for everything. And how are you going to remember them all? Or have enough keys to give everything a unique hotkey. I can only ever remember a few from a few applications, never all of the functions I might want to use. Years ago, I did add hotkeys to run programs, and only ever ended up remembering about five. Maybe he'd like to type Chinese on a keyboard with 15,000 keys. :-\ Steve -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Wed, 2011-08-31 at 08:19 -0400, Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 04:17:00PM -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: I don't think I've hit the freezing-emacs bug. What triggers it? What's the BZ #? In my case it happens whenever the Emacs window is minimized and then reopened. I have to maximize it and then select a buffer each time to get it back to normal. I've not filed a BZ for it personally. Interesting. I don't seem to be able to reproduce it. But I'll keep an eye out. If it isn't working for you, you should file a bug. -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Mathematical Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 29 August 2011 14:39, Tim Evans tkev...@tkevans.com wrote: On 08/29/2011 09:36 AM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:46:35AM +0200, Erik P. Olsen wrote: On 29/08/11 11:38, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? You have two ways to go, either learn to love gnome or quit gnome :-( Not quite the open source way: someone can always fork Gnome 2 and start a new project around it. Third way would be to go with CentOS. Surely, that's just delaying the inevitable? Dave... -- Dave Cross :: d...@dave.org.uk http://dave.org.uk/ @davorg -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 05:23 PM, Heinz Diehl wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. I still remember the times when KDE4 was born. It was terrible comparing to 3.5. After a while it was started to evolved, it became more stable and more user friendly. Seems nobody likes it (me included). Frankly, Gnome3 is broken by design and a f*cking piece of cr*p :-) Everybody have the right to hate gnome3, but in my opinion hating won't help. You have couple of options: 1. start to contribute and make it better. 2. wait until someone else makes it better. 3. Jump to different DE. If you choose option 3 then you have several alternatives (in no particular order) : E17, KDE, LXDE, XFCE, gnome2-fork etc. But keep in mind that none of them is perfect, nor suits everybody's needs. -- gpe -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 06:05 AM, Steve Underwood wrote: On 08/30/2011 08:24 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 08/29/2011 05:08 PM, Steve Underwood wrote: What makes you say its designed for tablets? Its design seems far less suitable for a tablet than a desktop. The basic layout, the loss of the second panel and the dependence on gestures all sounds like something designed for a tablet, or at least, inspired by a tablet. You could certainly interpret the look as being inspired by a tablet, but the total inability to use it without a very steady hand makes totally unsuitable for portable devices. Its clearly inspired by the Marquis de Sade. But only beloved by fans of Leopold von Sacher-Masoch ;D -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 06:05 AM, Steve Underwood wrote: You could certainly interpret the look as being inspired by a tablet, but the total inability to use it without a very steady hand makes totally unsuitable for portable devices. Its clearly inspired by the Marquis de Sade. Not having actually used it, I wouldn't know. Just the idea of being forced to use gestures whether I wanted to or not was enough to make me jump ship. (Among other things, I always hated the way moving the mouse to the top right corner would show the desktop, and I disabled that obnoxious mis-feature as fast as I could. Whoever thought that everybody would want it was an idiot IMAO.) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 11:36 AM, Julius Smith wrote: I found alacarte, gnome-shell-extensions-alternative-status-menu, etc., to recover lost functionality. Right now, I'm running XFCE 4.6 on my desktop, but I've used a third-party repo to upgrade my laptop to 4.8. (I'm always a tad more careful with my main box; among other things, when it's time to upgrade Fedora, the laptop always goes first.) The first time I logged in after the upgrade, XFCE asked if I wanted the default desktop or if I preferred copying over my old settings. Naturally, I picked the latter because I'd already gotten things the way I wanted them and saw no reason to repeat the experience. I think it would be a Good Thing for Gnome 3 to do something similar after upgrading from Gnome 2.x. Yes, I realize that there are things, such as desktop icons and the placement of buttons on the bottom panel that can't be carried over but you should at least have the option of having your menus copied over with whatever customizations are still appropriate. Also, if somebody were to write a utility that could look at your old settings and help you get the most important ones working (or, at least, something equivalent working) it would make the transition much easier. Please note: I may not run Gnome any more, or even want to, but that doesn't mean that I'm not willing to make suggestions on how to make it easier for users to adapt to it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 09:23 AM, Heinz Diehl wrote:
On 29.08.2011, Dave Cross wrote:
I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1].
Seems nobody likes it (me included). Frankly, Gnome3 is broken by design and
a f*cking piece of cr*p :-)
All the students at my college who use(d) Linux/Gnome2 before have switched,
and
guess how many are using Gnome3 now? Yes, you're right: zero.
Just get over it, and use one of the fine alternatives: XFCE has
always been great, LXDE is slightly buggy but great too, and there
are various other good wm. I personally like ratpoison, awesome and
fluxbox a lot. It hurts a couple of weeks, but then you're done.
I tried both LXDE XFCE, but Desktop/panel (re)configuration
options/features seems limited:
XFCE:
1) Does XFCE allow creation of new panels, left/right/top(or bottom)
with features such as hiding panels which appears only when the
mouse is moved into the screen edges?
I cannot figure out how to add new panels; they appear collapsed,
and only expands with addition of new icons? How can I change the
panel properties to expand these new panels 100%, vertically and/or
horizontally?
2) Since I like to rearrange the icons within my main panel(1),
the workspace being 'centered', the icons adjusted to the
left and/or right of the workspace, the open desktop apps icons
moved to other panels (left/right/{top|bottom} instead of main,
with locks, and the notifications panel to the left of screen and so
on, so do I have this flexibility as Gnome provides? I don't see it.
3) Can I move/drag-drop the icons from one panel into another?
LXDE:
1) I haven't figured out how to shrink the desktop icons, how can
I do this?
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Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 05:30 AM, gpe wrote: On 08/29/2011 05:23 PM, Heinz Diehl wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. I still remember the times when KDE4 was born. It was terrible comparing to 3.5. After a while it was started to evolved, it became more stable and more user friendly. Seems nobody likes it (me included). Frankly, Gnome3 is broken by design and a f*cking piece of cr*p :-) Everybody have the right to hate gnome3, but in my opinion hating won't help. You have couple of options: 1. start to contribute and make it better. 2. wait until someone else makes it better. 3. Jump to different DE. If you choose option 3 then you have several alternatives (in no particular order) : E17, KDE, LXDE, XFCE, gnome2-fork etc. But keep in mind that none of them is perfect, nor suits everybody's needs. There are another options: ;) 4. Multi-boot or Virtual: Keep F13/14 install F15 or greater. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
9. Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15 (Julius Smith)
I like to know , that its the function of the gnome with fedora 15 Jorge J.Rivera Tech Support Analyst T. + 52 55 21229114 M. +52 5514526200 Mexico D.F., Mexico e-mail: jriv...@tpmex.com http://www.teleperformance.com/ cid:image007.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0 http://teleperformance.com teleperformance.com | http://www.facebook.com/Teleperformanceglobal cid:image008.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0 http://facebook.com/Teleperformanceglobal%20 facebook.com/teleperformanceglobal | http://www.twitter.com/teleperformance cid:image009.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0 http://twitter.com/teleperformance%20 twitter.com/teleperformance | http://www.youtube.com/Teleperformance cid:image010.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0 http://www.youtube.com/teleperformance%20 youtube.com/teleperformance Logo.jpg La información contenida en esta comunicación es Privilegiada y Confidencial. El contenido se ha elaborado solamente para el uso de los individuos o entidades listadas arriba. Si el lector de este mensaje no es el destinatario correcto, se le notifica que cualquier comunicación, distribucion o copia de este comunicado está estrictamente prohibido. Si ha recibido este comunicado por error, por favor notifíqueme inmediatamente por vía telefónica, o por e-mail y borre este mensaje de su equipo. Por favor considere el impacto ambiental de imprimir este e-mail antes de hacerlo innecesariamente. image001.pngimage002.pngimage003.pngimage004.pngimage005.jpg-- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 12:30 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: XFCE: 1) Does XFCE allow creation of new panels, left/right/top(or bottom) with features such as hiding panels which appears only when the mouse is moved into the screen edges? Yes, it does. From the Main Menu, go to Preference, Panel. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 12:05 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 08/30/2011 11:36 AM, Julius Smith wrote: I found alacarte, gnome-shell-extensions-alternative-status-menu, etc., to recover lost functionality. Right now, I'm running XFCE 4.6 on my desktop, but I've used a third-party repo to upgrade my laptop to 4.8. (I'm always a tad more careful with my main box; among other things, when it's time to upgrade Fedora, the laptop always goes first.) The first time I logged in after the upgrade, XFCE asked if I wanted the default desktop or if I preferred copying over my old settings. Naturally, I picked the latter because I'd already gotten things the way I wanted them and saw no reason to repeat the experience. I think it would be a Good Thing for Gnome 3 to do something similar after upgrading from Gnome 2.x. Yes, I realize that there are things, such as desktop icons and the placement of buttons on the bottom panel that can't be carried over but you should at least have the option of having your menus copied over with whatever customizations are still appropriate. Also, if somebody were to write a utility that could look at your old settings and help you get the most important ones working (or, at least, something equivalent working) it would make the transition much easier. Please note: I may not run Gnome any more, or even want to, but that doesn't mean that I'm not willing to make suggestions on how to make it easier for users to adapt to it. Good idea, a Gnome-2 to Gnome-3 migration tool? This might work if done as an upgrade, but can this tool be smart enough to ask if one wishes to import after a fresh install, be it a partition or virtual space? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 12:48 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: Good idea, a Gnome-2 to Gnome-3 migration tool? This might work if done as an upgrade, but can this tool be smart enough to ask if one wishes to import after a fresh install, be it a partition or virtual space? I don't see why not. All it has to do is run the first time you log in using Gnome 3 and check to see if ~/.gnome2 exists. If so, it pops up and offers to help with your migration; if not, it exits. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:38:16 +0100 Dave Cross dav...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? An someone else mentioned, the fallback mode of Gnome 3 is similar to Gnome 2. The most helpful page I found was this one: http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/04/13/gnome-panel-is-dead%2C-long-live-gnome-panel! -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 12:36 -0600, Julius Smith wrote: I disliked the decision to simplify things in GNOME 3, but on the whole I find it more productive than GNOME 2. Things got better once I found alacarte, gnome-shell-extensions-alternative-status-menu, etc., to recover lost functionality. In my opinion, Fedora should be aimed at power users not newbies. That said, I like throwing windows to the left and right to fill half the screen, cycling through windows of a given app (Alt-`) as easily as cycling through apps (Alt-Tab), and generally saving screen space. Once I got my Custom Shortcuts in place, I have few complaints (other than the freezing-emacs bug). In general, using the mouse is slow, so we need to be able to define a shortcut for everything. - jos I don't think I've hit the freezing-emacs bug. What triggers it? What's the BZ #? -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Mathematical Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 12:41 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 08/30/2011 12:30 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: XFCE: 1) Does XFCE allow creation of new panels, left/right/top(or bottom) with features such as hiding panels which appears only when the mouse is moved into the screen edges? Yes, it does. From the Main Menu, go to Preference, Panel. I finally figured it out, and it works by chosing the 'fixed' mode. The tricky part was getting the workspace 'centered' with help of the spacer, expanded option. I was able to get Firefox and Thunderbird around the workspacer. One other issue though, how can I get more workspaces given only 4 x 1 by default - the only option I have is to add more rows, not more columns... I prefer a 10 x 1 format. Thanks! -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 12:59 PM, stan wrote: On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:38:16 +0100 Dave Cross dav...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? An someone else mentioned, the fallback mode of Gnome 3 is similar to Gnome 2. The most helpful page I found was this one: http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/04/13/gnome-panel-is-dead%2C-long-live-gnome-panel! Uh, the link says: Document not found... -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: 9. Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15 (Julius Smith)
On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:45:26 -0500 Jorge Rivera jriv...@tpmex.com wrote: I like to know , that its the function of the gnome with fedora 15 Your question renders as without meaning, not clear, in English. So you probably won't get any responses. I think there is a Spanish list for Fedora. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicating_and_getting_help/es -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/31/2011 02:36 AM, Julius Smith wrote: I disliked the decision to simplify things in GNOME 3, but on the whole I find it more productive than GNOME 2. Things got better once I have FC15 on three machines with different hardware - different CPUs, different graphics hardware. As installed, all three were kinda OK. After recent updates all three now take about 5 seconds to change windows. A warning box popping up is a minimum 10s activity - 5 seconds to appear, and 5 to dismiss it. I find it hardware to believe I have three special case machines which all hit the same obscure bug. How can you call this a productive environment? I found alacarte, gnome-shell-extensions-alternative-status-menu, etc., to recover lost functionality. In my opinion, Fedora should be aimed at power users not newbies. That said, I like throwing Aiming a desktop at one group of users, rather than the general case, is a weird choice. Its like stating clearly that you wish to remain in obscurity, and never build the critical mass momentum to really get anywhere. A successful platform needs to install in a usable state for everyone, and be adaptable from there to particular needs. windows to the left and right to fill half the screen, cycling through While there is some value in the windows to the left and right functionality, as implemented right now you just get windows jumping around in size and place pretty wildly whenever you try to simply move something aside to check what's underneath. Its bizarre. windows of a given app (Alt-`) as easily as cycling through apps (Alt-Tab), and generally saving screen space. Once I got my Custom Shortcuts in place, I have few complaints (other than the freezing-emacs bug). In general, using the mouse is slow, so we need to be able to define a shortcut for everything. - jos They broke the mouse, so the answer is more shortcuts? What about fixing what was broken as a better alternative? Steve -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Steve Underwood ste...@coppice.org wrote: I have FC15 on three machines with different hardware - different CPUs, different graphics hardware. As installed, all three were kinda OK. After recent updates all three now take about 5 seconds to change windows. A warning box popping up is a minimum 10s activity - 5 seconds to appear, and 5 to dismiss it. I find it hardware to believe I have three special case machines which all hit the same obscure bug. How can you call this a productive environment? I don't see anything like this at all. (I don't see bizarre jumping windows either.) Have you tried logging in as a new user to make sure there's nothing in your config affecting things? It definitely sounds like a bug to chase down. In my opinion, Fedora should be aimed at power users not newbies. Aiming a desktop at one group of users, rather than the general case, is a weird choice. Its like stating clearly that you wish to remain in obscurity, and never build the critical mass momentum to really get anywhere. I'm talking about all Fedora users and developers, who should know their way around Linux already. Let the newbies run CentOS, and give _them_ a stripped down version of GNOME 3 if that's what they prefer. (However, I think even they should be offered a complete and visible learning curve.) They broke the mouse, so the answer is more shortcuts? What about fixing what was broken as a better alternative? I'm not talking about shortcuts to work around a mouse bug (missed that part of the thread). I'm talking about eliminating mouse use completely. I want to do everything from within emacs and its shells, because it's so much faster than GUI-based machinations. That said, nice GUIs are fun, pretty, great for newbies, and they can provide a nicely graduated learning curve, eventually getting out of the way when done right. Bugs should simply be fixed. - jos -- Anybody who knows all about nothing knows everything -- Leonard Susskind -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: 9. Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15 (Julius Smith)
If you are referring to my general comments re. GNOME 3, then yes, that's on Fedora 15. - jos 2011/8/30 Jorge Rivera jriv...@tpmex.com I like to know , that its the function of the gnome with fedora 15 ** ** *Jorge J.Rivera* Tech Support Analyst T. + 52 55 21229114 M. +52 5514526200 Mexico D.F., Mexico e-mail: jriv...@tpmex.com ** ** [image: cid:image007.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0]http://www.teleperformance.com/ teleperformance.com | [image: cid:image008.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0]http://www.facebook.com/Teleperformanceglobal facebook.com/teleperformanceglobal http://facebook.com/Teleperformanceglobal%20 | [image: cid:image009.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0]http://www.twitter.com/teleperformance twitter.com/teleperformance http://twitter.com/teleperformance%20 | [image: cid:image010.png@01CBEE17.5B058CE0]http://www.youtube.com/Teleperformance youtube.com/teleperformance http://www.youtube.com/teleperformance%20* *** ** ** *[image: Logo.jpg]* La información contenida en esta comunicación es Privilegiada y Confidencial. El contenido se ha elaborado solamente para el uso de los individuos o entidades listadas arriba. Si el lector de este mensaje no es el destinatario correcto, se le notifica que cualquier comunicación, distribucion o copia de este comunicado está estrictamente prohibido. Si ha recibido este comunicado por error, por favor notifíqueme inmediatamente por vía telefónica, o por e-mail y borre este mensaje de su equipo. Por favor considere el impacto ambiental de imprimir este e-mail antes de hacerlo innecesariamente. ** ** -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines -- Anybody who knows all about nothing knows everything -- Leonard Susskind image001.pngimage004.pngimage003.pngimage002.pngimage005.jpg-- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? Cheers, Dave... [1] http://blog.dave.org.uk/2011/08/hating-gnome-3.html -- Dave Cross :: d...@dave.org.uk http://dave.org.uk/ @davorg -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 03:08 PM, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? http://k3rnel.net/2011/06/15/bluebubble-faq/ Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 29/08/11 11:38, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? You have two ways to go, either learn to love gnome or quit gnome :-( -- Erik -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
Erik P. Olsen wrote: On 29/08/11 11:38, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? You have two ways to go, either learn to love gnome or quit gnome :-( Maybe there is more ways, maybe Gnome developers will make sense of Gnome3 is miscarrieed. Maybe Gnome 2 will continue in previous accomplishments as another project(s). There is another one: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 Personally I'm now using XFCE. Franta -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:38:16 +0100, Dave Cross dav...@gmail.com wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? In the short run you can use fallback mode, which has a very similar feel to gnome 2. In the long run, no one has started a gnome 2 fork, so the future is not going to include it. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:46:35AM +0200, Erik P. Olsen wrote: On 29/08/11 11:38, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? You have two ways to go, either learn to love gnome or quit gnome :-( Not quite the open source way: someone can always fork Gnome 2 and start a new project around it. -- Darryl L. Pierce, Sr. Software Engineer @ Red Hat, Inc. Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/ pgpsoVPtIno6o.pgp Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 09:36 AM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:46:35AM +0200, Erik P. Olsen wrote: On 29/08/11 11:38, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Is there any way to go back to GNOME 2 on Fedora 15? Can I reuse the F14 rpms? Or can I rebuild the F14 srpms on my F15 system? Or perhaps someone else has already done this work and made GNOME 2 available for F15? You have two ways to go, either learn to love gnome or quit gnome :-( Not quite the open source way: someone can always fork Gnome 2 and start a new project around it. Third way would be to go with CentOS. -- Tim Evans, TKEvans.com, Inc.| 5 Chestnut Court UNIX System Admin Consulting| Owings Mills, MD 21117 http://www.tkevans.com/ | 443-394-3864 http://www.come-here.com/News/ | tkev...@tkevans.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 29.08.2011, Dave Cross wrote: I've tried GNOME 3 for a couple of months and I really don't like it[1]. Seems nobody likes it (me included). Frankly, Gnome3 is broken by design and a f*cking piece of cr*p :-) All the students at my college who use(d) Linux/Gnome2 before have switched, and guess how many are using Gnome3 now? Yes, you're right: zero. Just get over it, and use one of the fine alternatives: XFCE has always been great, LXDE is slightly buggy but great too, and there are various other good wm. I personally like ratpoison, awesome and fluxbox a lot. It hurts a couple of weeks, but then you're done. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 09:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. Those distros all have maintainers who will backport fixes. Commercial enterprise distros don't depend on upstream maintainers. That's part of the value of paying them. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 03:36 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote: Personally I'm now using XFCE. As am I. I wonder how many people are walking away from Gnome because they don't want to use a UI designed for a tablet on their desktop or laptop? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:46:46 -0700 Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 08/29/2011 03:36 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote: Personally I'm now using XFCE. As am I. I wonder how many people are walking away from Gnome because they don't want to use a UI designed for a tablet on their desktop or laptop? I switched mostly to XFCE some time back - originally because it was so much faster on small boxes and later because Gnome 2.x was near unusable on a netbook. Gnome 3.0 I did give a spin and wasn't very impressed as basic stuff didn't seem to work, performance of the compositor was awful and simple configuration tasks now seemed to involve writing custom extensions which seemed rather backward for what Gnome claims it wants. I shall see what 3.2 is like as hopefully that will have fixed some of the biggest catastrophes. KDE 4.0 was also pretty bad. Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 06:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 08/29/2011 09:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. Those distros all have maintainers who will backport fixes. It's opensource - Everybody has the liberty to take these $$$-OSes source packages and to adopt them for ones needs, rsp. to submit these packages back into Fedora. Commercial enterprise distros don't depend on upstream maintainers. It's opensource - Nothing prevents forkers to take these people's works and harvest them for free forks. Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 10:29 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: It's opensource - Everybody has the liberty to take these $$$-OSes source packages and to adopt them for ones needs, rsp. to submit these packages back into Fedora. In theory, yes. In practise, not many people are typically interested in doing such backporting work and since Fedora often uses much newer versions, those patches don't necessarily apply. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:02:14 -0500 Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. I wonder if it would make sense for the Fedora developers to consider not tying the base distribution to Gnome (or anything that is so widely-panned), but to something else. It is a question of choice, but from what I have been reading, Gnome-users has really had some very bad experiences. The new user always gets the base distribution -- the one that is called Fedora in the Download segment. Most people would run away from using the spins, thinking that it is something more advanced (when in reality, it is not). Not to mention, there are several rpms needlessly tied up with gnome, because some developers work off this, and just assume that it is needed in their packaging. Best wishes, Ranjan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 12:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 08/29/2011 09:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. Those distros all have maintainers who will backport fixes. Commercial enterprise distros don't depend on upstream maintainers. That's part of the value of paying them. Rahul There is nothing to backport, as those changes are taken from upstream, which no longer exists. -- Chris Kloiber -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 11:53 PM, Chris Kloiber wrote: There is nothing to backport, as those changes are taken from upstream, which no longer exists. That depends. Nautilus exists. Metacity bug fixes probably are common to Mutter and sometimes patches will have to be written from scratch as well Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
Am 29.08.2011 20:23, schrieb Chris Kloiber: On 08/29/2011 12:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 08/29/2011 09:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. Those distros all have maintainers who will backport fixes. Commercial enterprise distros don't depend on upstream maintainers. That's part of the value of paying them. Rahul There is nothing to backport, as those changes are taken from upstream, which no longer exists. maybe fedora should switch to KDE as primary desktop since GNOME2 was bad enough and GNOME3 is losing even users who loved GNOME2 for whatever reason a desktop which NEEDS 3D-Support is a epic fail signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:28:25 -0500 Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 29.08.2011 20:23, schrieb Chris Kloiber: On 08/29/2011 12:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 08/29/2011 09:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Mon, 2011-08-29 at 15:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Note that GNOME 2.x won't get any security updates which might be something you need to keep in mind. This is part of the reason that Fedora along with other distros will have to move to follow GNOME 3.x releases. One wonders how this will impact on the various long life distributions, where you're expected to keep using Linux version x(not changing).y(not changing).z(only part that changes), then? Because they're supposed to run for years, *with* security updates, but no large version changes. Those distros all have maintainers who will backport fixes. Commercial enterprise distros don't depend on upstream maintainers. That's part of the value of paying them. Rahul There is nothing to backport, as those changes are taken from upstream, which no longer exists. maybe fedora should switch to KDE as primary desktop since GNOME2 was bad enough and GNOME3 is losing even users who loved GNOME2 for whatever reason a desktop which NEEDS 3D-Support is a epic fail I guess the developers will decide in their wisdom. If it were up to me, I think it would make more sense to get something that has good functionality and is light on resources. Perhaps XFCE? I use LXDE, but I don't know if it could be considered to have functionality. Ranjan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:02, Bruno Wolff III br...@wolff.to wrote: In the short run you can use fallback mode, which has a very similar feel to gnome 2. In the long run, no one has started a gnome 2 fork Oh really? ;-) A Fork Of GNOME 2: The Mate Desktop Posted by Michael Larabel on August 17, 2011 A lot of people hate Canonical's Unity desktop, but a lot of people also hate the current state of the GNOME 3.0 Shell too. For those that are still fond of the GNOME 2.x environment, there is a fork of GNOME2 that's been little talked about up to this point. This fork is called the Mate Desktop Environment. The Mate Desktop Environment fork of GNOME2 was started by an Arch Linux user back in June, but it hasn't yet gained too much traction and is mostly just talked about on various forums around the web. It also hasn't been picked up by any distribution repositories at this point, but there is an AUR repository available for Arch Linux users. The project overview is just: MATE Desktop Environment, a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop for users, using traditional computing desktop metaphor. Also known as the GNOME2 fork. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=OTgxMA FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 16:12, Ranjan Maitra mai...@iastate.edu wrote: Perhaps XFCE? I use LXDE, but I don't know if it could be considered to have functionality. I've pulled my hair trying to tweak LXDE. I've found XFCE is much better, with similiar low memory requirements but without the annoyance. Power and memory requirements of KDE, Gnome, XFCE and LXDE compared http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=linux_desktop_vitalsnum=1 FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 12:58 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: Power and memory requirements of KDE, Gnome, XFCE and LXDE compared http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=linux_desktop_vitalsnum=1 This is with Gnome 2.29.1 and XFCE 4.6. I'd like to see Gnome 3 and XFCE 4.8 compared this way. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 16:50:01 -0300, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: A Fork Of GNOME 2: The Mate Desktop I usually read Phoronix, but I missed that article. That provides an opportunity for someone to package it for Fedora. There still could be issues with doing so, but at least there is an upstream. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/30/2011 12:46 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 08/29/2011 03:36 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote: Personally I'm now using XFCE. As am I. I wonder how many people are walking away from Gnome because they don't want to use a UI designed for a tablet on their desktop or laptop? What makes you say its designed for tablets? Its design seems far less suitable for a tablet than a desktop. The need to grab an exact pixel row, for example, is very hard to do unless you are sitting at a desk with a good quality mouse. Gnome 3 throws out every ergonomics design guideline I've ever seen. Its like an exercise in what not to do. Its bizarre. Steve -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: GNOME 2 on Fedora 15
On 08/29/2011 05:08 PM, Steve Underwood wrote: What makes you say its designed for tablets? Its design seems far less suitable for a tablet than a desktop. The basic layout, the loss of the second panel and the dependence on gestures all sounds like something designed for a tablet, or at least, inspired by a tablet. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
