Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
+1 This has been the case for us for years. 95%+ of our traffic is not local. Rand Rand P. Hall Director, Network Services askIT! Merrimack College 978-837-3532 rand.h...@merrimack.edu If I had an hour to save the world, I would spend 59 minutes defining the problem and one minute finding solutions. – Einstein On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Hanset, Philippe C phan...@utk.edu wrote: And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- *From:* Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edu] *Received:* Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Turner, Ryan H *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU ] *On Behalf Of *Stewart, Joe *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
I swear, just a couple months ago I saw a post on this listserve that you should run TWO Cat6 runs for every 802.11ac AP. Now, CAT6A?! *Larry Dougher* Chief Information Officer Information Technology Services http://wsesu.net/its Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union http://wsesu.net 127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089 Email ldoug...@wsesu.net | Google+ http://goo.gl/gEAdt | Twitterhttp://twitter.com/larrydougher | LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher | (802) 674-8336 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- *From:* Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edu] *Received:* Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Turner, Ryan H *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Stewart, Joe *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
6A isn't particularly more expensive in a new build / whole area refurbishment, and I figure the 'fit the best you can afford' route works for the best chance of it still being adequate in 20 years time. My predecessor who shared this view did us a huge favour by insisting on Cat 5 when Cat 3 was prevalent, and indeed much of our Cat5 actually passes a 5e test, because it was of decent quality at the outset. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Larry Doughermailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net Sent: 18/12/2013 18:04 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure I swear, just a couple months ago I saw a post on this listserve that you should run TWO Cat6 runs for every 802.11ac AP. Now, CAT6A?! Larry Dougher Chief Information Officer Information Technology Serviceshttp://wsesu.net/its Windsor Southeast Supervisory Unionhttp://wsesu.net 127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089 Emailmailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net | Google+http://goo.gl/gEAdt | Twitterhttp://twitter.com/larrydougher | LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher | (802) 674-8336 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edumailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113tel:%2B1%20919%20445%200113 Office +1 919 274 7926tel:%2B1%20919%20274%207926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113tel:%2B1%20919%20445%200113 Office +1 919 274 7926tel:%2B1%20919%20274%207926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
Thanks everyone for the ideas/posts concerning this. It seems crazy to me as well, but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared when preparing for future construction projects. Heck we haven’t even deployed any first wave 802.11AC yet but will be shortly. Thanks, Joe From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian McDonald Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:42 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure 6A isn't particularly more expensive in a new build / whole area refurbishment, and I figure the 'fit the best you can afford' route works for the best chance of it still being adequate in 20 years time. My predecessor who shared this view did us a huge favour by insisting on Cat 5 when Cat 3 was prevalent, and indeed much of our Cat5 actually passes a 5e test, because it was of decent quality at the outset. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Larry Doughermailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net Sent: 18/12/2013 18:04 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure I swear, just a couple months ago I saw a post on this listserve that you should run TWO Cat6 runs for every 802.11ac AP. Now, CAT6A?! Larry Dougher Chief Information Officer Information Technology Serviceshttp://wsesu.net/its Windsor Southeast Supervisory Unionhttp://wsesu.net 127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089 Emailmailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net | Google+http://goo.gl/gEAdt | Twitterhttp://twitter.com/larrydougher | LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher | (802) 674-8336 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edumailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113tel:%2B1%20919%20445%200113 Office +1 919 274 7926tel:%2B1%20919%20274%207926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113tel:%2B1%20919%20445%200113 Office +1 919 274 7926tel:%2B1%20919%20274%207926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.ushttp://www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edumailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:l...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
They certainly are using some strange math, my experience (and that of other institutions nearby) is that the vast majority of my N access points don't suffer from being connected to 100M poe switches, and in the places we have 1G to them, they generally don't use more than 100M. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Hanset, Philippe Cmailto:phan...@utk.edu Sent: 18/12/2013 19:33 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.ushttp://www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edumailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:l...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
Is much marketing foo-foo, in my opinion. The wired-side truth of the Wi-Fi story deflates a lot of the numbers that are meant to dazzle… From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian McDonald Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 2:39 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure They certainly are using some strange math, my experience (and that of other institutions nearby) is that the vast majority of my N access points don't suffer from being connected to 100M poe switches, and in the places we have 1G to them, they generally don't use more than 100M. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Hanset, Philippe Cmailto:phan...@utk.edu Sent: 18/12/2013 19:33 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.ushttp://www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edumailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:l...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
I would say take a close look at the 100M ports connected to your N or AC APs and check for output drops. We've seen this in some locations where we we're careful about refreshing with N AP's. It likely comes at peak times so if you're just graphing the in/out you will miss it. Don Wright Brown University On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.uk wrote: They certainly are using some strange math, my experience (and that of other institutions nearby) is that the vast majority of my N access points don't suffer from being connected to 100M poe switches, and in the places we have 1G to them, they generally don't use more than 100M. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. -- From: Hanset, Philippe C phan...@utk.edu Sent: 18/12/2013 19:33 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- *From:* Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edu] *Received:* Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Turner, Ryan H *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU ] *On Behalf Of *Stewart, Joe *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
What is it you think is happening during output drops? -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Wright, Don donald_wri...@brown.edu wrote: I would say take a close look at the 100M ports connected to your N or AC APs and check for output drops. We've seen this in some locations where we we're careful about refreshing with N AP's. It likely comes at peak times so if you're just graphing the in/out you will miss it. Don Wright Brown University On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.uk wrote: They certainly are using some strange math, my experience (and that of other institutions nearby) is that the vast majority of my N access points don't suffer from being connected to 100M poe switches, and in the places we have 1G to them, they generally don't use more than 100M. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Hanset, Philippe C Sent: 18/12/2013 19:33 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
The packets being dropped on the way back to the AP because they're overrunning the 100M interface during peak wireless usage. You'll also notice if you do a speedtest that the download is much worse than the upload. We seen this disappear when we swap in a gig switch. - Don On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Daniel Eklund ekl...@umich.edu wrote: What is it you think is happening during output drops? -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Wright, Don donald_wri...@brown.edu wrote: I would say take a close look at the 100M ports connected to your N or AC APs and check for output drops. We've seen this in some locations where we we're careful about refreshing with N AP's. It likely comes at peak times so if you're just graphing the in/out you will miss it. Don Wright Brown University On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.uk wrote: They certainly are using some strange math, my experience (and that of other institutions nearby) is that the vast majority of my N access points don't suffer from being connected to 100M poe switches, and in the places we have 1G to them, they generally don't use more than 100M. Thanks -- ian Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling. From: Hanset, Philippe C Sent: 18/12/2013 19:33 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure And the WLAN industry also does strange math ;-) A lot of services are going to the Cloud, mostly using your pipe to the Internet. It seems that, progressively or even rapidly, the limiting factor is not Wi-Fi anymore but rather the pipe to the internet. 1 Gbps to each Wireless AP is a lot of bandwidth! and a lot of oversubscription all around (edge, distribution, core, WAN) Unless you plan to distribute UHDTV (8K TV) to your dorms, I wouldn't worry about getting more than 1 Gbps to each AP for a long time. Also most of 802.11ac APs are fine with 802.3af! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: The WLAN industry is doing an absolutely horrible, almost shameful job of managing the message on cabling for 11ac, says I. Lee Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 -Original Message- From: Turner, Ryan H [rhtur...@email.unc.edu] Received: Wednesday, 18 Dec 2013, 12:52 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure BTW… Before anyone jumps on me, I understand the purpose of the question. It’s great to know the best practices for the ‘what if’ situation. Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure Call me naïve, but I think 10 gig uplinks for ac WAPs is serious overkill. We have almost 4,500 switches across campus, most with 1 gig user uplinks, and the vast majority are perfectly fine with 1G (heck, we could swap a good number of those for 100 Meg, and they’d barely notice). These are switches with 48+ connected devices, all at 1 gig. So, for most access points that will be seeing far less users than a traditional edge switch with a one gig uplink, I don’t see the need to go crazy with the feed speed. I could see deploying 2 single gig links to the .ac access points, but not 10 gig. Exceptions to this ‘could’ be very dense classroom environments with a lot of access points (there are exceptions to everything). Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
There is also the option, if you're a vendor that owns both ends (AP and Switch) to do something creative with only a single Cat5/6. Jeff On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 at 9:51 AM, in message 47fe4cc0b92ada478ecc286a11e9730150a...@suex10-mbx-03.ad.syr.edu, Peter P Morrissey ppmor...@syr.edu wrote: We’ve decided for now to run two Cat6A to every AP for new construction. This is because right now it is not clear if vendors are going to utilize two Gig or one 10 Gig connection for each AP to support the theoretical oversubscription of one Gig by Wave2 and beyond. One of the challenges is that cabling lifecycle is 15-20 years easily which means that there will be multiple generations of wireless running on that cable beyond even wave2. For insurance in the long term, it seems to make the most sense to invest in 6A. We are finding that CAT6A is very expensive to install due to the higher costs for the cable and termination hardware as well as labor. In addition, the pathway requirements for the fatter cable are also much more expensive and also disruptive if it is renovation of existing construction. Not sure what CAT7 will buy you. I believe it is shielded and will mix more easily with Cat6, and is more narrow which addresses pathway concerns, but there is also the hassle of terminating on a good ground which complicates things quite a bit. Pete Morrissey From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Stewart, Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure As this technology begins to be deployed is anyone out there planning ahead for wave two of this? I know it’s not going to happen for a while but I’m curious if there are folks in the process of new construction where you have the option to add the infrastructure now to support the 10Gbps. If so, has there been any documentation on what cable type would be recommended for this? (ex. CAT6A or CAT7). Thanks, Joe Stewart Network Specialist I Information Systems and Network Services Claremont McKenna College 325 E. 8th Street, Roberts South #12 Claremont, CA 91711 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
Years ago I “got creative” and made some patch cables that allowed me to put two 10M hosts on a single jack instead of pulling new cables. The boss said unkind things and shoved a notebook of the TIA-568 spec in my face. Ah, the bad old days…;-) John From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sessler Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:07 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure There is also the option, if you're a vendor that owns both ends (AP and Switch) to do something creative with only a single Cat5/6. Jeff
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
That was a standard across the AMP jacks... you could get one Cat5 100Mbps, or two 10Mb split cable jacks. It was a matter of which insert you plugged into the socket. It wasn't my decision, and I cringe everytime I see one, but they're still around in our older campus buildings. Jeff On 12/18/2013 4:42 PM, John York wrote: Years ago I “got creative” and made some patch cables that allowed me to put two 10M hosts on a single jack instead of pulling new cables. The boss said unkind things and shoved a notebook of the TIA-568 spec in my face. Ah, the bad old days…;-) John *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Sessler *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:07 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure There is also the option, if you're a vendor that owns both ends (AP and Switch) to do something creative with only a single Cat5/6. Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure
We had thousands of those, wired for usoc on the wallplate side, a splitter to send 2 pairs to two station cables with usoc on one and 568b on the station end. We had this for our entire cat-3 plant, and some of the early cat-5 (non-e) terminated on 110 blocks. I don't miss that any more than I miss faculty putting 10base2 on rg-59. Dale Thus spake John York (yo...@brcc.edu) on Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 09:42:27PM +: Years ago I “got creative” and made some patch cables that allowed me to put two 10M hosts on a single jack instead of pulling new cables. The boss said unkind things and shoved a notebook of the TIA-568 spec in my face. Ah, the bad old days…;-) John From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sessler Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:07 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11AC Future Infrastructure There is also the option, if you're a vendor that owns both ends (AP and Switch) to do something creative with only a single Cat5/6. Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
