Susan,
It's the same here in Thailand and most of South East Asian countries.
There has been much emphasis on Ruhi classes and hence the teaching and
enrollment has stopped. The communities have been encouraged to finish up to
Ruhi book 7 and many have done so but after that they have been
Susan,
At 12:42 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
Mind you, I said they were discouraged from having other deepening *classes*
not from deepening independently.
First the two-way TV sets have to be installed in our homes. Then they can
monitor our individual deepening practices, too.
Mark A. Foster
In a message dated 12/10/2004 7:04:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
unity of
thought refers to keeping one's mind and heart centered on Baha'u'llah and
`Abdu'l-Baha, i.e., the Covenant. It has nothing directly to do with the
fundamentalist indoctrination
Michael,
At 08:36 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
Unity in diversity does not imply uniformity! Why is there so much objection
to a methodical system being introduced?
The objections I have seen are not to a methodical system being introduced.
They are to this particular methodical system being
Brent, thank you for a very thoughtful reply. It certainly helps me to
understand how you think about these kinds of issues and why you believe as you
do. I think that there probably are many Baha's who have similar views as
yours. Your thoughtful analysis and sensitive approach are
Hello James adn thank you for your comments,
James Mock wrote:
What is a known law? If you had asked people 600 years ago, they would
have proven to you that the world is flat.
We cannot accept things known today as scientific fact.
. James, what you say is certainly ture in some instances.
A previous message stated:
literal interpretation of a specific very
...that was supposed to be speicific verse
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It's the same here in Thailand and most of South East Asian countries.
There
has been much emphasis on Ruhi classes and hence the teaching and enrollment
has
stopped.
I recently read a recent report noting one cluster in Cambodia that has
grown from 500 Baha'is to over 2000, in a relatively
While encouraging those Bahais who are upset about the Ruhi Method to get
over it and move on, Dick Detweiler wrote :
Surely the tent is big enough for that?
I agree with him and I am not too concerned about the Ruhi methods. I have
attended Ruhi classes and they dont bother me, although
Oh, one other point I wanted to make but I forgot.
It is my impression that, in the Book of Certitude, Baha'u'llah makes a case
that the over-emphasis on literalism by proponents of relgion is a leading
cause for the decline of religious faith and the declining respect for
religion. Am I
In a message dated 12/10/2004 6:55:37 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The question
I would ask is how does "thinking about the implications of the Writings"
differ from "personal interpretation"?
Seems to be the same question I asked myself, and the conclusion I
I said:
Seems a tad hypocritical to me but that is just my take on this whole
exchange.
I just want to say that after I posted I noted that here is someone who has
taken a year long vacation from just about anything Baha'i telling others to
get off their fanny and do something.
Dick Am I the
Ron,
At 11:27 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
I dont think there is a market for such a new religion because there are
already an excess of such religions, and people can readily see the problems
they bring about.
I am just guessing, but ...
The Baha'i Faith is a religion which *appears* to be to
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:27:33 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There is but
one power which heals -- that is God. The state or condition through which
the healing takes place is the confidence of the heart. By some this state
is reached through pills,
In a message dated 12/10/04 8:31:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God,
exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with
undoubting faith that its meaning can never be
Hi, Richard,
At 12:38 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
I read the entire above selection to a Baha'i friend who gives workshops and
lectures regarding African-Americans and Blacks. She has told me that
everything you have written above is right on the money and that your
conversation on this subject
In a message dated 12/10/2004 9:15:56 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
OK,
great. So develop something you think will. Surely you don't
think the House of Justice would object to that do you? If they do,
then I for one know this isn't the Baha'i Faith it used to
In a message dated 12/9/2004 10:42:17 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There is
a well-known book in English entitled *The True Believer* which describes the
psychological make-up of those who feel compelled to lose their individuality
in mass movements. In this
But in practice, I believe we project an image of being another literal,
inerrant religion like evangelical Christianity or ultra-conservative
Islam.
Dear Ron,
I know you have this impression at present, but I think if you did a survey
of the general population who have some familiarity with
Gilberto: So in which directions can the meanings of the book be
exhausted, and in which can't it?
Dear Gilberto,
What I'm suggesting is that there are endless depths to any true Word of
God. But that doesn't mean that any particular Book can be expected to
answer every question that will ever
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:12:17 -0600, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto: So in which directions can the meanings of the book be
exhausted, and in which can't it?
Dear Gilberto,
What I'm suggesting is that there are endless depths to any true Word of
God. But that doesn't
I doubt the House would object to any degree with developing new
material. It is not the House that is pushing Ruhi. It is the Regional
Teaching Institutes who will brook no variance. They say we HAVE Ruhi, so we
should USE Ruhi and not waste time developing other
Ronald Stephens:
But the theory of the ether was disproven by a specific scientific
experiment, the Michelson-Morley experiment. It is virtually impossible that
this could be overturned.
Firouz:
Just a few months ago I read in some American Science Journal that the
theory of ether could be
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:01:07 -0600, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[6:38]
We have not neglected anything in the Book,
Gilberto:
And I would say that the basic essentials are there [the Quran], and the rest
is just detail.
Susan:
What is 'essential' in one age may not have been so
And at some point, you weren't just saying the Quran is silent about
the equality but that it is positively inconsistent with it.
Dear Gilberto,
I think the details of the Qur'an are inconsistent with the social equality
of women as we presently understand it.
it means
you want to have it
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:22:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem
is that they appear to make an exception with their own
comments.
Which is precisely what has always perturbed me with reading Ruhi method
material.
Regards,
Scott
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:45:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think
that many are willing to take what the editors say at face
value.
Well, that certainly happens, and at times tutors encourage it. When one
participant noted that no source was given to
Dear Ron:
Its my understanding that Bahaullah demonstrates a hundred times in the
course of the Iqan that a literal approach to Scripture is a superficial one.
But I see that as entirely different from what you have said here about the
Book. You seem to me to be conflating a non-literal
In a message dated 12/11/2004 12:30:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If I
am honst, I have this same issue. The sufferigof Jesus on the cross is a
powerful story. Try as I might, I can not see Baha'u'llah's imprisonment for
decades as equivalent. It just isnt'
Patti,
At 09:12 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
I think that the point of it is that people might be interested in the Faith
with their heads, but their hearts spirits need to be touched
I won't comment on the Ruhi part. However, I agree that the above is important,
and, to that extent, Hedi
The last three paragraphs of a lecture by A. Einstein, 1920:
IMO, a careful reading of `Abdu'l-Baha's comments on ether will show that He
used it as a metaphor for spirit. He was a storyteller. If He were alive today,
He might instead speak of bits and bytes.
Mark A. Foster *
Scott,
Ruhi wrote:
We believe that the simple habit of thinking about the implications of the
Writings with the minimum of personal interpretation would eliminate a great
share of the disagreements that afflict consultation in many communities,
You replied to Ruhi:
In other words the opinions
Hi, Susan,
At 10:49 PM 12/9/2004, you wrote:
I guess the question is will that 'unity of thought' not then be a
literalistic one? And is that really what our Writings encourage?
Given my personal emphasis on orthopraxy and polydoxy over orthodoxy, that is
one of my concerns, as well. IMO,
Tutor: I don't think any of the ideas you have described is wrong or
undesirable in principle. The problem is .that referring to them as elements of
a Ruhi method introduces rigidity into a process that is otherwise simple,
joyful, and sensitive to a diversity of needs. For example, you all
Unity in diversity does not imply uniformity! Why is there so much objection
to a methodical system being introduced? Harmony of thought also does not
negate the independent search for truth. The study circle brings together a
variety of people with a variety of opinions in a harmonious, welcoming
even where they contradict known laws of nature and common sense
What is a known law? If you had asked people 600 years ago, they would
have proven to you that the world is flat.
We cannot accept things known today as scientific fact.
Mathematicians, astronomers, chemical scientists
From: Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: No Personal Opinions in Ruhi
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:45:32 -0600
On the one hand you say:
I would be interested in the demographics of long-term Ruhi participation
Hi, Dick,
At 09:14 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
On the one hand you say:
I would be interested in the demographics of long-term Ruhi participation and
how it correlates with the general Baha'i populations in different areas. My
guess* would is that we would see a negative correlation between
Ron wrote:
Do you see my point?
Your point is understood. This non-scientific mind, however, would assert
that nothing is final.
There is but one power which heals -- that is God. The state or condition
through which the healing takes place is the confidence of the heart. By
some this state
In a message dated 12/10/04 6:14:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It is now that unity of thought and action is most needed. It is now, when the Cause is entering a new phase of development, when its Administration is being gradually consolidated amid the welter and chaos
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:27:37 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And, most
importantly, doesnt Bahaullah caution against precisely such a literal
inerrant approach in His Book of Certitude? This major theme of the Book of
Certitude seems to be something that
Hi, Ron,
At 11:40 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote:
It is my impression that, in the Book of Certitude, Baha'u'llah makes a case
that the over-emphasis on literalism by proponents of relgion is a leading
cause for the decline of religious faith and the declining respect for
religion. Am I correct in
That is not true!
One cannot fail to meditate on the writings after going through the
sequence.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Ruhi, Prolonged Discussions
In a message dated
In a message dated 12/10/04 9:27:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There is but one power which heals -- that is God. The state or condition
through which the healing takes place is the confidence of the heart. By
some this state is reached through pills, powders, and
James Mock wrote:
There is but one power which heals -- that is God. The state or condition
through which the healing takes place is the confidence of the heart. By
some this state is reached through pills, powders, and physicians. By others
through hygiene, fasting, and prayer. By others
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:21:42 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/10/04 8:31:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God,
exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must,
Hello Gilberto,
I followed some of your discussions with Susan on another list, and I
always thought that your comments and were very logical and well
thought out.
Ron Stephens
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You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:38:05 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear
Scott, It may be tempting to believe this, but I'm sure it is not what
the editors think they are doing.
I am sure it isn't what they think they are saying, but I think that is
also
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