Are you saying you know a case where the Baha'i Administration did
not
invalidate a marriage where one partner changed physical gender?
Are there cases where a person who changed genders wished to remain
married as before? Or are we just talking hypothetically?
I would think if a person
Susan,
Putting aside the issue of transgender challenges, I have known
Baha'is who married members of the opposite sex in order to pass
within the Baha'i community as heterosexual. I assume that they felt
this was an acceptable approach to their struggles with sexual
preference. I guess it
Dear Susan,
I just wanted to see if I understood what Scott was saying. He said
with such finality that the marriage would not be invalidated, so I
wondered if he knew of a case. I have not yet received a clear "yes" or
"no," at least, as far as I understand with my Oldtimers' Disease ;-)
On 10/30/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If one party to a marriage has gender assignment surgery some time later,
after the marriage, I'd think that the other party might in all likelihood
want to get a divorce. I don't think that the other party will want to
stay in that
As remarkable as it may seem, there are known cases. Sometimes love can
transcend anything. Marleen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are there cases where a person who changed genders wished to remain
married as before? Or are we just talking hypothetically?
The information contained in
All I know is this, should such a case arrive, it woulod not be
treated as setting a precedent for how the House would deal with
it. There is no such thing as a precedent in Baha`i 'due process'.
Each case would be unique and treated as such.
Dear Scott,
There may not be such a thing as
Actually everything in nature has precedent (the adjectival form of the word) 1906 came before 2006. Hydrogen, helium and berylium were created first and they have precedent over other elements.But let's see what I was talking about. "2 a : something done or said that may serve as an example
I have known
Baha'is who married members of the opposite sex in order to pass
within the Baha'i community as heterosexual. I assume that they felt
this was an acceptable approach to their struggles with sexual
preference.
Dear Bill,
Oh, I realize that. It is rather common infact, inside and
So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
believes
his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later
enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is
born with
ambiguous
First off, sorry but I can't imagine one person "changes" sex, it sounds ridiculous to me. Im not a pro in this, but I think very few heterosexual-homosexual cases have biological or genetic implications; the majority has psycho-sociological antecedents. So what will the Faith accept as
Mind and Body are not seperate from each other in this plane of existence, anyway.The source of much physical suffering is prompted by the mind.The cases of pseudo-hermaphroditism are definitely from the body, not the mind. The events of genital ambiguity are definitely of the body, not
or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of
the body, not the body itself. (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p.
94)
- Original Message -
From:
Scott
Saylors
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:21
PM
Subject: Re: You never really
Interestingly enough, some muftis have actually ruled sympathetically
on this issue.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3657727.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4115535.stm
On 10/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So what will the Faith accept as
Bab, p. 94)- Original Message - From: Scott Saylors To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:21 PM Subject: Re: You never
really know: transsexual or gay?Mind and Body are not seperate from each other in this plane of existence, anyway.The source of much physical suffering i
Gilberto,It does not surprise me at all that some of the mufti would speak sympathetically about any question which might be so central to one believer's understanding of the confusions they face in life.Baha`i's have no monopoly on compassion.Regards, ScottGilberto Simpson [EMAIL
To wait for what isgood is
good.
Richard.
- Original Message -
From:
Scott
Saylors
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 3:07
PM
Subject: Re: You never really know:
transsexual or gay?
Richard,
I'll have to sit and cogitate awhile
Richard brought these words of the Bab to our attention: "AS this physical frame is the throne of the inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In reality that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of the body, not the body itself.
Bob, Please share wherein the Writingsyou foundany reference to the spirit having a gender that it would have to havea bodycongruent to? My sense has been that the body genderis the clue to the lessons to be learned, not an indicator of spiritual gender. Please share if you have anything on this.
If one party to a marriage has gender assignment surgery some time later,
after the marriage, I'd think that the other party might in all likelihood
want to get a divorce. I don't think that the other party will want to
stay in that marriage. Unless there was sort of secret collusion or
agreement
I agree with Iskandar."Iskandar Hai, M.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi: If one party to a marriage has gender assignment surgery some time later,after the marriage, I'd think that the other party might in all likelihoodwant to get a "divorce". I don't think that the other party will want
Dear Marleen,
Hello! I am not entirely sure of your point, so I hope this reply is
constructive. I know from firsthand experience of a person who changed
his/her gender via surgery, etc., and was allowed to subsequently marry.
My understanding is that the person was under a doctor's care
It won't invalidate a marriage. I know a transgender individual who was born with ambiguous gender, fairly. There are also cases of 'pseudo-hermaphroditism" which is a chromosomally male individual whose body does not change to male when testosterone is produced by the developing fetusin the womb.
Jeanine H. wrote:
we know that two same genders are not married in the Faith,
Right. But what if a man and a woman marry and later one of them has
gender reassignment surgery? Then it appears that you have a gay
couple, either two women or two men, depending on if it is the man or
the
Interesting! The case of hermaphrodites and other physical conditions
would seem to me to be a different subject.
Are you saying you know a case where the Baha'i Administration did not
invalidate a marriage where one partner changed physical gender? That
would also be interesting to know.
Fascinating. It makes me wonder how gender can be determined for
marriage or House membership. Can people accept a male who looks female
and vice versa? The possibilities the future has in store for us . . .
Marleen
Scott Saylors wrote:
It won't invalidate a marriage. I know a transgender
How would Bahai assumptions be different?
Jeanine H. wrote:
Sounds like a long forum discussion with GLAAD would be in order, tho'
Baha'is still won't be operating from the same set of assumptions...
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent
I'm saying the individual referred questions to the House of Justice before going on with Sexual Reassignment Surgery, was not only allowed but encouraged to follow his or her own best interest and medical advice but was allowed to re-register his or her Baha`i identity with the new name. I do not
Scott,
Well, it is possible the case you refer to is precisely the case with
which I am familiar. Or, a quite similar one. Or, I misunderstood the
following:
Scott Saylors wrote:
It won't invalidate a marriage.
So, my question is: how do you know that? Are you speaking of not
invalidating
pseudo-hermaphrodite may well live her entire life and never know that she is genetically male. She will know she is not fertile. There is no womb, though the vagina is present. A significant proportion of these rare individuals may develop testicular cancer and have it be mistaken for ovarian
Marleen,
It seems to me that GLAAD (and I probably meant PFLAG, actually--I had
to run out and couldn't look any of these up) would assume that the
issue of whether or not a transgender situation involved one partner
being gay was of little importance, as all such sexual orientations
are
30 matches
Mail list logo
