Re: FW:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Mike, Have you been hacked? On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Mike michael.alco...@ntlworld.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://delhigovernmentjobs.in/xrwrgz.php __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: leave-715353-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-715490-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: FW:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes sorry about that - I do have security but someone stupid has hacked me still. _ From: bounce-715490-29...@list.jccc.edu [mailto:bounce-715490-29...@list.jccc.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Maneck Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:27 PM To: Baha'i Studies Subject: Re: FW: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Mike, Have you been hacked? On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Mike michael.alco...@ntlworld.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://delhigovernmentjobs.in/xrwrgz.php __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-715353-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-715511-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: FW:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I saw that. It's not remotely similar to my email address, but on the other hand it did post to the list. Bottom line is I don't know. Mike Visit the Baha'i World at www.bahai.org Visit the Baha'is of the United States at www.us.bahai.org Original message Subject: Re: FW: From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu CC: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Mike, Have you been hacked? On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Mike michael.alco...@ntlworld.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://delhigovernmentjobs.in/xrwrgz.php __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-715353-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-715516-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv What does it mean to have the station of prophecy? From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Sat, January 30, 2010 9:47:42 AM Subject: Re: Fw: RE: Sects The Baha'i Studies Listserv Does the Baha'i Faith have a stance on wether or not there will be Baha'i dependent prophets like during the Old Testament times (ie Issiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zafaniah, Zekariah, Samuel, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, etc.) of the Dispensation of Moses? Jensenites say yes, but I do not know if the Universal House of Justice has ever discuccesd the issue of dependent prophecy in the Baha'i Faith. While the phrase in the Aqdas has been translated as: Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 32) What it literally says is Whoso maketh claim to a Cause (amr.) Here is how 'Abdu'l-Baha interprets this phrase: The substance is, that prior to the completion of a thousand years, no individual may presume to breathe a word. All must consider themselves to be of the order of subjects, submissive and obedient to the commandments of God and the laws of the House of Justice. Should any deviate by so much as a needle's point from the decrees of the Universal House of Justice, or falter in his compliance therewith, then is he of the outcast and rejected. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 68) Obviously were a lesser prophet to appear it would be entirely subservient to the Universal House of Justice. It is hard to imagine what function they would serve in that case. Keep in mind that Abdu'l-Baha suggests that *any* true believer has the station of a 'lesser prophet.' __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-484154-17190...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-484317-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Does the Baha'i Faith have a stance on wether or not there will be Baha'i dependent prophets like during the Old Testament times (ie Issiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zafaniah, Zekariah, Samuel, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, etc.) of the Dispensation of Moses? Jensenites say yes, but I do not know if the Universal House of Justice has ever discuccesd the issue of dependent prophecy in the Baha'i Faith. While the phrase in the Aqdas has been translated as: Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 32) What it literally says is Whoso maketh claim to a Cause (amr.) Here is how 'Abdu'l-Baha interprets this phrase: The substance is, that prior to the completion of a thousand years, no individual may presume to breathe a word. All must consider themselves to be of the order of subjects, submissive and obedient to the commandments of God and the laws of the House of Justice. Should any deviate by so much as a needle's point from the decrees of the Universal House of Justice, or falter in his compliance therewith, then is he of the outcast and rejected. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 68) Obviously were a lesser prophet to appear it would be entirely subservient to the Universal House of Justice. It is hard to imagine what function they would serve in that case. Keep in mind that Abdu'l-Baha suggests that *any* true believer has the station of a 'lesser prophet.' __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-484154-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Does the Baha'i Faith have a stance on wether or not there will be Baha'i dependent prophets like during the Old Testament times (ie Issiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zafaniah, Zekariah, Samuel, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, etc.) of the Dispensation of Moses? Jensenites say yes, but I do not know if the Universal House of Justice has ever discuccesd the issue of dependent prophecy in the Baha'i Faith. From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 5:11:19 PM Subject: Re: Fw: RE: Sects The Baha'i Studies Listserv Why does LJ even still have followers? Wikipedia lists several prophecies he made that failed to materialize... He lost a lot of followers as a result of these failed prophecies. I've corresponded with several of them on the internet. Jensen's proclivity to apocalyptic prophecies seems to have come from Mason Remey, though Jensen and Neal Chase have carried it to extremes. For instance there is a pamphlet published in March of 1962, entitled The Impending World Catastrophe. In this pamphlet Mason Remey is said to foretell an impending shift in the earth's crust which would cause a catastrophe. As I noted before, it is likely this prophecy was based on Ruth Moffett's misunderstanding of a talk Abdu'l-Baha gave in Egypt, but I think such prophecies became especially important to Remey when he realized so few of the Baha'is would follow him. His only hope at that time was for something apocalyptic to happen. In any case, this catastrophe was predicted to occur very soon. It may come at any time after April, 1963. In another publication by the New Mexico Remeyites it was stated: This global catastrophe will cause certain land areas of the Earth's surface to rise above their present levels while others will disappear below the newly formed seas. These inundations will result in the annihilation of all human life in the submerged regions and this Death and Destruction will be augmented by the sudden extreme changes in temperature at the new Arctic and Antarctic areas. There will be other attending conditions such as earthquakes, the opening up of volcanoes and the crumbling-up of mountain ranges; - all of which, taken together, make up a terrifying picture of the coming of the dreadful day of The lord as prophesied in Holy Writ and which is now being confirmed through scientific studies of these movements of the Earth's crust. The fear that the end is near is spreading amongst the peoples of all the world. those who seek physical safety at the high altitudes above sea level will in all probability be safe from the inundations; however, this does not guarantee that they will not suffer greatly. It is prophesied that two-thirds of the people of the world will be killed! It was in response to prophecies such as this that Leland Jensen relocated to the mountains of Montana. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-483259-17190...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-483959-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Why does LJ even still have followers? Wikipedia lists several prophecies he made that failed to materialize... 1. In 1979, approximately 6 years after being released from prison, Jensen began teaching his followers that on April 29, 1980 a nuclear holocaust would kill a third of the world's population, and that over the next twenty years, the planet would be ravaged until in the year 2000 God's Kingdom would be established and a thousand years of peace would follow.[3] On the fateful night, Jensen led a group of followers into fallout shelters in Missoula, Montana.[16] The disconfirmed prophecy resulted in Jensen losing several contingents of adherents,[1] and his response was that he was right all along. Over the following years Jensen used several types of explanations, as noted by researcher Robert Balch,[17] 1. The prediction was fulfilled spiritually rather than physically. 2. The prophecy was fulfilled physically, but not in the manner expected. 3. The date was off because of a miscalculation. 4. The date was a prediction, not a prophecy. 5. The leaders had a moral responsibility to warn the public despite the date's uncertainty. 6. God had given the world a reprieve. 7. The prediction had been a test of members' faith. Jensen's followers had made substantial commitments to the prediction, building shelters, writing letters to government agencies and newspapers, and distributed thousands of leaflets urging fellow Missoulians to build fall-out shelters. To them the disconfirmation was painfully obvious,[4] and researchers used them as a case study in cognitive dissonance. On the day after Jensen's seemingly failed prophecy, the local newspaper of Missoula, Montana, the Missoulian, published the following on April 30, 1980: Based on his interpretations of the Bible and on measurements of the Great Pyramid of Kuhfu in Giza, Egypt, Jensen said, ‘either a provocative act that will escalate into World War III, or World War III itself,’ was to occur at 5:55 p.m. MDT Tuesday [4/29/80]. (Missoulian, Vol. 107 No. 311 April 30, 1980) Neal Chase later claimed that a provocative act occurred April 29 1980 when the Soviets launched a nuclear-powered satellite[18] (Cosmos 1176[19]) designed to monitor US naval activity by radar.[20] When asked by a UPI reporter Jensen did not express concern that the prediction might not come true, remarking There will be a nuclear holocaust some day.[21] 2. After the 1980 event, Jensen introduced the idea that the seven-year Tribulationhad begun on the date of his prediction of a nuclear holocaust, and thus committed himself to another event happening on the same date in 1987.[4] In 1985 he made the prediction that Halley's Cometwould enter Earth's orbit on April 29, 1986, and collide with the Earth exactly one year later. In the interim year, he taught that the comet would break apart, pelt the Earth with debris, and produce massive earthquakes.[4] The new prophecy rekindled his followers, who became excited with the new idea. As opposed to the first prediction, this time his followers made very little commitments to the prophecy, and began making disclaimers even before the 1986 event. When the members gathered on the night before the comet was supposed to enter Earth's orbit, nobody mentioned the comet.[22] Jensen later said that the massive earthquakes were fulfilled by a spiritual earthquake when one of his important followers defected and left him.[17] 3.Throughout the 1990’s Chase made a total of 18 predictions which pertained to small-scale disasters that he claimed would lead step-by-step towards apocalypse, as well as dates for a nuclear attack on New York City by middle Eastern terrorists.[23] He based these predictions on Biblical prophecies, evidence from Hopi prophecies, planetary conjunctions, dreams, numerological coincidences, Nostradamus, and psychics.[22] After each failed prediction, the BUPC adherents carried on as usual, giving disclaimers to future predictions, and focusing on Jensen's other teachings. (This last one was Neal Chase, but you get the piont.) From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 10:54:31 PM Subject: Re: Fw: RE: Sects The Baha'i Studies Listserv Here's a testimonial from a former Jensen followers.It was part of a thread of posts by women who had been victims of Jensen's womanizing. Date: Tue Jul 8, 2003 5:14 pm Subject: Re: Accounts of Official or Institutional Abuse of Individual Baha'is I wanted to offer some support and corroboration for Sara's story and her accounts of Doc's sexual deviancies. Most of the females who were involved in the BUPC community, either permanently or just passing through for a series of firesides, which usually lasted two weeks, were well aware of Doc's sexual
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Why does LJ even still have followers? Wikipedia lists several prophecies he made that failed to materialize... He lost a lot of followers as a result of these failed prophecies. I've corresponded with several of them on the internet. Jensen's proclivity to apocalyptic prophecies seems to have come from Mason Remey, though Jensen and Neal Chase have carried it to extremes. For instance there is a pamphlet published in March of 1962, entitled The Impending World Catastrophe. In this pamphlet Mason Remey is said to foretell an impending shift in the earth's crust which would cause a catastrophe. As I noted before, it is likely this prophecy was based on Ruth Moffett's misunderstanding of a talk Abdu'l-Baha gave in Egypt, but I think such prophecies became especially important to Remey when he realized so few of the Baha'is would follow him. His only hope at that time was for something apocalyptic to happen. In any case, this catastrophe was predicted to occur very soon. It may come at any time after April, 1963. In another publication by the New Mexico Remeyites it was stated: This global catastrophe will cause certain land areas of the Earth's surface to rise above their present levels while others will disappear below the newly formed seas. These inundations will result in the annihilation of all human life in the submerged regions and this Death and Destruction will be augmented by the sudden extreme changes in temperature at the new Arctic and Antarctic areas. There will be other attending conditions such as earthquakes, the opening up of volcanoes and the crumbling-up of mountain ranges; - all of which, taken together, make up a terrifying picture of the coming of the dreadful day of The lord as prophesied in Holy Writ and which is now being confirmed through scientific studies of these movements of the Earth's crust. The fear that the end is near is spreading amongst the peoples of all the world. those who seek physical safety at the high altitudes above sea level will in all probability be safe from the inundations; however, this does not guarantee that they will not suffer greatly. It is prophesied that two-thirds of the people of the world will be killed! It was in response to prophecies such as this that Leland Jensen relocated to the mountains of Montana. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-483259-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The complete list of people they do not like. I put emphasis on the alleged ringleaders of the plot to kill Shoghi Effendi and usurp the faith. Those are all Hands of the Cause. My point is that they do not have one shred of evidence to back up their allegations. That makes it a slanderous lie. What truth can there be in a so-called religious group that does this? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482308-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I got the list from the MBC-OBF rather than the COBL-BUPC. I really do not understand hsitory. PS Leland Jensen claimed innocence and said his conviction was due to a corrupt gov't/judicial system. From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 11:15:56 AM Subject: Re: Fw: RE: Sects The Baha'i Studies Listserv The complete list of people they do not like. I put emphasis on the alleged ringleaders of the plot to kill Shoghi Effendi and usurp the faith. Those are all Hands of the Cause. My point is that they do not have one shred of evidence to back up their allegations. That makes it a slanderous lie. What truth can there be in a so-called religious group that does this? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482308-17190...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482311-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I got the list from the MBC-OBF rather than the COBL-BUPC. I really do not understand hsitory. PS Leland Jensen claimed innocence and said his conviction was due to a corrupt gov't/judicial system. Would you expect him to say otherwise? There are numerous women, former members of the BUPC who can attest to his womanizing. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482337-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Baha'i Studies Listserv I got the list from the MBC-OBF rather than the COBL-BUPC. I really do not understand hsitory. PS Leland Jensen claimed innocence and said his conviction was due to a corrupt gov't/judicial system. Specifically he claimed the AMA bribed the judges to convict him because he was a chiropractor. Actually he was very lucky not to have been bro't up on charges of sexual harassment later. One woman, a member of his International Council reported on-line that after she was named to the council, he had insisted on having sex with her. When her husband, also a member of the council, refused to support her, she left the movement. Don C __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482382-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The complete list of people they do not like. I put emphasis on the alleged ringleaders of the plot to kill Shoghi Effendi and usurp the faith. These are the entire contingent of the Hands of the Cause who were required to give their consent to the choice of successor Guardian. They all rejected Remey's claims, a claim that was not made for 2 years after the death of Shoghi Effendi. The Remeyites also at one time claimed Ruhiyyih Khanum and Balyuzi were having an affair and hatched a plan to hi-jack the Faith from Remey. Don C __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482383-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv One woman, a member of his International Council reported on-line that after she was named to the council, he had insisted on having sex with her. When her husband, also a member of the council, refused to support her, she left the movement. Here is what she wrote when Leland Jensen died: I am pleased to announce that Dr. Leland Doc Jensen, leader of 'Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant' (based in Missoula, Montana) the cult to which I belonged from 1990-94, FINALLY died August 6, 1996. He would have been 82 years old on August 22. It's amazing to me what a sense of relief I feel!! I keep finding myself whistling the song from Wizard of Oz.Ding, dong, the witch is dead... Which old witch? The wicked witch! !!! It's odd to be glad of somebody's death, and there's a little (tiny) voice scolding me for my glee, but I really am glad he can't (directly) hurt anyone any more!!! The women he molested can rest easier now, as can his followers who are the parents of young girls who have worked so hard at trying to believe his story of innocence. (He did time at the Montana State Prison for lewd and lacivious acts on a minor who was a 15 year old chiropractic patient of his. 19 other women also testified at his 1969 trial about their molestations by him...not an era in which women freely said the things they said on the stand, not even if they were being bribed as Jensen claimed. Since his visitation while in prison and his subsequent mission has put him in a position above suspicion or reproach, any woman student or follower of his who accused him of sexual impropriety was in turn accused of lying for some evil motive, going against the Promised One of God.) Those harmed in ways other than sexual, giving up families, careers, spiritual growth, livelihoods, self-respect, etc, etc, no longer need to fear being cast into the nethermost gloom or being erased from the Lamb's Book of Life or being called Judas or harlot to friends..etc, etc, etc! At least not directly, by Jensen. His clone, Neal Chase, will try to keep the group going and so will perpetuate Jensen's legacy of deception. (Along with Jensen's 34 year-old second wife, Frances Wind Jensen and a core group of followers in Missoula, MT; and satellite communities in Madison and Milwaukee, WI; Roaring Fork Valley, CO; and Minneapolis, MN.) Actually, as Jensen has aged, Neal has taken over a bit at a time, making more and more of the predictions of Armageddon and in general, running things. (All the while, of course, trying to make it look like he wasn't, just like he learned from his mentor, Jensensound familiar, anyone?) Chase is the one who recruited my ex-husband, Dave Cornell, who in turn recruited me. (Ex since I said I thought there was something wrong with the leader) So Dave will be racking up the gold stars throwing his support even more firmly behind Neal during the transition. (He got a BIG promotion when he severed his marriage to me and stayed inside.he got my old position as one of the 12 apostles and vice-president of the Second International Baha'i Council.) It's amazing to me how much freer I now feel with Jensen dead!! I don't feel like I need to post this anonymously. And I won't need to find myself fantasizing about his death anymore.he's already dead FINALLY!!! Anybody relate? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482447-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Here's a testimonial from a former Jensen followers.It was part of a thread of posts by women who had been victims of Jensen's womanizing. Date: Tue Jul 8, 2003 5:14 pm Subject: Re: Accounts of Official or Institutional Abuse of Individual Baha'is I wanted to offer some support and corroboration for Sara's story and her accounts of Doc's sexual deviancies. Most of the females who were involved in the BUPC community, either permanently or just passing through for a series of firesides, which usually lasted two weeks, were well aware of Doc's sexual problems. Many experienced them firsthand, as did I. Doc was not aggressive or violent toward me, because when I pushed him away, he went. Others may have had a different experience. Women who passed through the community to attend firesides often stayed at Doc's house. This became a serious problem, especially if the women were young and attractive. Doc would come onto these women, causing Opal Jensen, his wife, anxiety and stress. She knew what was happening, and spoke to me of her fear that he would get into trouble again. On more than one occasion she called me up in a panic and implored me to get these women out of her house, to please find them another place to stay. This I did on at least two occasions. I often found myself trying to explain to young women how a promised one of God could also be a sex offender. As you can imagine, this proved difficult. But, as Sara pointed out, wearing the dirty jacket was part of the proofs. Although Doc claimed innocence, many of us felt he was guilty of the dirty jacket, true to the biblical language in Zechariah, and would someday have to come to terms with it in order for the jacket to be removed. We did not speak of this publicly, however. Most of the community was in denial, but many knew it was true and just refused to confront it. Those who did confront it were challenged by the community. Women who did speak up, seeking some support, became the objects of chastisement and ridicule and usually called flat-out liars. This is not unlike the ridicule women are often subject to when they dare to come forth about rapes. And the treatment these women received at the hands of people like Doc and Neal can be attributed to the kind of power and control men want to have in rape and other sex crimes. To pretend it wasn't happening was silly, because so many of us experienced it. I could list names of the women who knew, integral members of the community who had been part of the BUPC for years, often longer than a decade. However, without their permission I don't feel right about naming them. But they know who they are and no doubt many of them are reading these posts. Sara's assessment that Doc was in denial was probably true. I think we can go one step farther. When I left the BUPC in 1991, having finally figured out that Doc was not the 7th Angel or any of those other things he claimed to be, I read the transcripts of the trial. Finally. These are a matter of public record and available for anyone to see. All one has to do is read the transcripts to see that Doc was guilty of the charges. And to know him personally, and to experience his sexual advances firsthand, sealed the matter. In 1969 (I think that's the year), when Doc was convicted and sent to Montana State Prison, he was a successful chiropractor and owned several properties in Missoula; more important to our story, he was an accomplished Baha'i teacher, a knight of Baha'u'llah, having been knighted by Shoghi Effendi. He served in the islands as a pioneer, and taught hundreds the Faith. Both his parents were Baha'is, and his mother met 'Abdu'l-Baha (as he tells the story). One can imagine the denial he underwent as the severity of his situation settled in. So he invented a station for himself that could only be discovered while incarcerated. God had to find a way to put him in prison, so he could have the stone with seven eyes before him. So Doc was framed. He wasn't guilty; he was fulfilling God's Will for him. This, by the way, is not my theory but someone else's, and I do not wish to take credit for it. However, knowing Doc as well as I did, it is a very plausible explanation for what happened to this man, who was an excellent Baha'i teacher and a respected man in the Faith. The delusion became so deeply integrated into his life, that I believe he became convinced of it as the years rolled by; he believed he was the Joshua. I want to commend Sara for telling this side of the story. It is an important side, not to vilify a man who is dead and gone, but to help get at the truth. If Doc was deluded, than what of his research, his findings, his views of the Baha'i Faith? Everything he taught must be questioned, especially his relationship with Pepe and the role he wanted Pepe to play. It was Doc who claimed that Mason was adopted by Abdu'l-Baha, and therefore he was Aghsan; this is not part of the Baha'i Faith. Others on HOBF have
Re: FW: Donaldson's Shi'ite Religion
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear khazeh, Unfortunately, I get an error message that the file is too big from the send6 site. Yours, Jeanine H. khazeh wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv A wonderful and most generous Bahai friend and scholar , Dr Duane Troxel, has made available an important book, a very important book on Shi'ism Here http://www.send6.com/8f5e6e9f93a2c9b460b7c21f20296840/ the downloading will expire in a week take advantage dear friends the beloved Guardian Shoghi Effendi stated that one of the MUSTs is the study of Islam and of course Shi'ism is the context..and unfortunately the very useful Dr Moojan Momen Book is not easily available and downloadable so please take advantage of this precious opportunity **Those who participate in such a campaign, whether in an organizing capacity, or as workers to whose care the execution of the task itself has been committed, “MUST”, as an essential preliminary to the discharge of their duties, thoroughly familiarize themselves with the various aspects of the history and teachings of their Faith. In their efforts to achieve this purpose they “MUST” study for themselves, conscientiously and painstakingly, the literature of their Faith, delve into its teachings, assimilate its laws and principles, ponder its admonitions, tenets and purposes, commit to memory certain of its exhortations and prayers, master the essentials of its administration, and keep abreast of its current affairs and latest developments. They “MUST” strive to obtain, from sources that are authoritative and unbiased, a sound knowledge of the history and tenets of Islam -- the source and background of their Faith -- and approach reverently and with a mind purged from preconceived ideas the study of the Qur'án which, apart from the sacred scriptures of the Bábí and Bahá'í Revelations, constitutes the only Book which can be regarded as an absolutely authenticated Repository of the Word of God. They “MUST” devote special attention to the investigation of those institutions and circumstances that are directly connected with the origin and birth of their Faith, with the station claimed by its Forerunner, and with the laws revealed by its Author. Having acquired, in their essentials, ***these prerequisites of success in the teaching field***, they ... (Shoghi Effendi, The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 49) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:jeanin...@earthlink.net Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-455522-2678...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-455529-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: FW: Donaldson's Shi'ite Religion
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I have the same problem. Shirley Macias In a message dated 8/30/2009 11:56:42 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jeanin...@earthlink.net writes: Unfortunately, I get an error message that the file is too big from the send6 site. Yours, Jeanine H. khazeh wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv A wonderful and most generous Bahai friend and scholar , Dr Duane Troxel, has made available an important book, a very important book on Shi'ism Here http://www.send6.com/8f5e6e9f93a2c9b460b7c21f20296840/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-455535-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: FW: Donaldson's Shi'ite Religion
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There please try this You will have no problems http://www.4shared.com/file/128913634/9243c1b7/Shiite_Religion_-_Donaldson.h tml From: bounce-455535-27...@list.jccc.edu [mailto:bounce-455535-27...@list.jccc.edu] On Behalf Of g...@aol.com Sent: 30 August 2009 20:57 To: Baha'i Studies Subject: Re: FW: Donaldson's Shi'ite Religion The Baha'i Studies Listserv I have the same problem. Shirley Macias __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-455538-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Fw: 'Abdul-Baha Tablet
This blessed Tablet forwarded by Hedayiet Roosta to the Bahai Studies List is an amazing, luminous Tablet. I read it and I cried. I read it again and I cried. I will try and provide a provisional translation a temporary translation until it is authoritatively translated. It is addressed to a lady [wife of Muh.ammad Taqi Tabasi] She has complained to His holiness 'Abdu'l-Bahá that my husband is gone long to India.I do not know what he is doing there.What is the meaning of his total consecration to the Bahai Cause? The Master lovingly replies: You are right dear Handmaid of God You are right yet again. But your husband is in India at My wish. Your husband has become enamored/fallen in love totally and entirely with the flame of teaching and guiding. What can your dear husband when he is so enthralled? ...But yet you are right. Should your beloved husband focus on the affairs and business of this world it will come to naught but he is focused on eternal gifts everlasting treasures. Any way it is most amazing... The emotion of a man totally inebriated with the wine of Love for God and His Manifestation and yet his spouse wishing for normality and the Master agreeing with her sense of loneliness and yet teaching her too of what her husband is achieving and what treasures they are both accumulating should the Word of God/ the Love of God/obedience to the Centre of the Covenant be the epicenter and cynosure of their life. Thanks again Roosta and your dear friends What an extraordinary missive and e-mail to this list Humbly and tearfully khazeh The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: A wonderful story: The Old Man and the Dog
O Lara wher edo you ifnd these stories I prya you willspeak ot interested people about Barack O please knwo Ilov eyou MArylou -- Original Message -- From: Lara Kearns [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:28:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: A wonderful story The Old Man and the Dog by Catherine Moore Watch out! You nearly broad sided that car! My father yelled at me. Can't you do anything right? Those words hurt worse than blows. I turned my head toward the elderly man in the seat beside me, daring me to challenge him. A lump rose in my throat as I averted my eyes. I wasn't prepared for another battle. I saw the car, Dad. Please don't yell at me when I'm driving. My voice was measured and steady, sounding far calmer than I really felt. Dad glared at me, then turned away and settled back. At home I left Dad in front of the television and went outside to collect my thoughts. Dark, heavy clouds hung in the air with a promise of rain. The rumble of distant thunder seemed to echo my inner turmoil. What could I do about him? Dad had been a lumberjack in Washington and Oregon . He had enjoyed being outdoors and had reveled in pitting his strength against the forces of nature. He had entered grueling lumberjack competitions, and had placed often. The shelves in his house were filled with trophies that attested to his prowess. The years marched on relentlessly. The first time he couldn't lift a heavy log, he joked about it; but later that same day I saw him outside alone, straining to lift it. He became irritable whenever anyone teased him about his advancing age, or when he couldn't do something he had done as a younger man. Four days after his sixty-seventh birthday, he had a heart attack. An ambulance sped him to the hospital while a paramedic administered CPR to keep blood and oxygen flowing. At the hospital, Dad was rushed into an operating room. He was lucky; he survived. But something inside Dad died. His zest for life was gone. He obstinately refused to follow doctor's orders. Suggestions and offers of help were turned aside with sarcasm and insults. The number of visitors thinned, then finally stopped altogether. Dad was left alone. My husband, Dick, and I asked Dad to come live with us on our small farm. We hoped the fresh air and rustic atmosphere would help him adjust. Within a week after he moved in, I regretted the invitation. It seemed nothing was satisfactory. He criticized everything I did. I became frustrated and moody. Soon I was taking my pent-up anger out on Dick. We began to bicker and argue. Alarmed, Dick sought out our pastor and explained the situation. The clergyman set up weekly counseling appointments for us. At the close of each session he prayed, asking God to soothe Dad's troubled mind. But the months wore on and God was silent. Something had to be done and it was up to me to do it. The next day I sat down with the phone book and methodically called each of the mental health clinics listed in the Yellow Pages. I explained my problem to each of the sympathetic voices that answered. In vain. Just when I was giving up hope, one of the voices suddenly exclaimed, I just read something that might help you! Let me go get the article. I listened as she read. The article described a remarkable study done at a nursing home All of the patients were under treatment for chronic depression. Yet their attitudes had improved dramatically when they were given responsibility for a dog. I drove to the animal shelter that afternoon. After I filled out a questionnaire, a uniformed officer led me to the kennels. The odor of disinfectant stung my nostrils as I moved down the row of pens. Each contained five to seven dogs. Long-haired dogs, curly-haired dogs, black dogs, spotted dogs all jumped up, trying to reach me. I studied each one but rejected one after the other for various reasons,too big, too small, too much hair. As I neared the last pen a dog in the shadows of the far corner struggled to his feet, walked to the front of the run and sat down. It was a pointer, one of the dog world's aristocrats. But this was a caricature of the breed. Years had etched his face and muzz le with shades of gray. His hipbones jutted out in lopsided triangles. But it was his eyes that caught and held my attention. Calm and clear, they beheld me unwaveringly. I pointed to the dog. Can you tell me about him? The officer looked, then shook his head in puzzlement. He's a funny one. Appeared out of nowhere and sat in front of the gate. We brought him in, figuring someone would be right down to claim him. That was two weeks ago and we've heard nothing. His time is up tomorrow. He gestured helplessly. As the words sank in I turned to the man in horror. You mean you're going to kill him? Ma'am, he said gently, that's our policy. We don't have room for
re: Fw: A wonderful story: The Old Man and the Dog
thank you very much. it's a good story at this time becuase if reflected upon it may shed light on a discussion on another thread here about the animal soul idea. that a dog does not have a human soul is a fact given by the Master. that all abide by His bidding is a gift to us all from the Bab. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: [bahai-discuss] Re: Query
I ask the question: Has the Universal House of Justice authenticated this passage therefrom, Dear Richard, As I mentioned to you on Baha'i-Discuss, the Universal House of Justice doesn't authenticate talks or even Tablets. Most of its members don't even know the languages. This task is usually left to the research office. However, Khazeh or Iskandar may be able to tell you if there is a Persian transcript to this talk and indicate how good the translation is. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: Harvard Professorship of Science Religion
Dear Phillip, I can't think of any Baha'is who are qualified for this position, can you? warmest, Susan This message comes to you from the history tarikh-list No forwarding allowed Please consider this, and pass to any Baha'is who may be interested to apply. This would be a perfect seat for a Baha'i. Even for the review committee to become aware of Baha'i views would be a great accomplishment. Richard T. Watson is endowing a Professorship of Science and Religion at the Harvard Divinity School. A search committee is being assembled to identify a permanent scholar, but a visiting professor in science and religion will be funded in 2006-7. I can't find a description of the search online. I got my information from Harvard Divinity Today (Fall 2005), a quarterly publication of the Divinity School. Contact William Graham, Dean of the Divinity School (my former thesis advisor, and an Islamist), Office Phone: +1 617 495 4513 Andover Hall 200 +1 617 495 5757 Semitic Museum Office Fax:+1 617 496 8026 University Mailing Address:Harvard Divinity School Andover Hall 45 Francis Ave Cambridge MA 02138 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Secretary to the Dean: Suzanne Rom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), 617.495.4513, Phillip URL to archives is http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/tarikh- list.html The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-bahai-st- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: question fm another list
I am sure we know the difference between God and the Manifestation. We know God through his Manifestations; we know God only by His attributes, not by His Essence, in this sensethe Manifestations are "God", because They are like mirrors which "reflect" perfectly the rays of the Sun. An issue related is that Jesus mentioned He is the "Son of God", but He is not the first to say that. "As regards your question: Bahá'u'lláh is, of course, not God and not the Creator; but through Him we can know God, and because of this position of Divine Intermediary, in a sense, He is all (or the other Prophets) we can never know of that Infinite Essence which is God. Therefore, we address ourselves in prayer and thought to Him or through Him to that Infinite Essence behind and beyond Him." (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, June 4, 1951) The prophets, however, maintained the existence of three worlds the world of God, the world of the Will or the Word, and the world of created things. The prophets, therefore, maintained that a knowledge of God was impossible. As "'Abdu'l-Bahá says man can never know God or even imagine Him. If he does that object is not God but an imaginary idol." (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 29, 1929) "...religious truth is not absolute but relative..." Shoghi Effendi__Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: U.S. educators needed to assist with potential Baha'i-based public school
It may be challenging to writea schoolproposal in2 weeks, so says my wife.Brent Poirier Attorney at Law [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baha'i Discuss Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 6:59 PM Subject: U.S. educators needed to assist with potential Baha'i-based public school Dear Friends, Jade has asked me to forward this, and requests that it be disseminated as widely as possible. Please forward it if you know anyone who may be interested. All replies should be sent to her at[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Thanks Becky Allah'u'Abha Dear Friends, (LSAs, please forward to all community members) I am an educational leader who has been eager to eventually open a public/charter school based totally on Baha'i principles. I have written a charter school application and presented it in different states, not Colorado. I have focused onmulticultural education, have Coloradolicenses to be principal or superintendent, and am bilingual in Spanish. Several days ago, the Denver Public School system put out an RFP (request for proposal) to convert a failing public school in Denver to a contract or charter school for grades PreK-8, and which will share a campus with Cole Middle School, which is now becoming a KIPP (ColeCollege Prep School). It presently has about 325 students, PreK-5,but can accommodate over 600.Mitchell is predominantly Hispanic (82%) and over 13% African Americans;95% of the studentsqualify for free or reduced-price lunch; and about 45% are identified as English Language Learners.This school has the lowest test scores in the entire state. This is a perfect opportunity for Baha'is to take over a public school and turn it around with our wonderful principles. The deadline for this proposal is MARCH 18, 2005. There is almost no time to think about this for long. NOW is the time for individual initiative and be willing to cooperate in any way you can. I propose a school that follows Baha'i principles completely, a multicultural community center that supports the students and the parents, one that is bilingual for all students, or as close to that as possible, which teaches the spiritual principles of all world religions as part of the social studies curriculum, which is allowed, that promotes unity and a sense of world citizenship and leadership locally and globally, which totally integrates--in effect, not just in principle--the arts and technology , by teaching these subjects daily and within projects such as TV and video production to improve verbal skills as well as technology abilities; that promotes alternative types of physical education including meditation and Tai Chi, proven to improve academic performance. I would also consider using the Montessori method in the early childhood phase (PreK-2) and perhaps theInternational Baccalaureate curriculum, which is compatible, ingrades3-8. IN short, it would become an academy ofrigor, while focused on the three types of education clearly outlined by 'Abdu'l-Baha: material, human and spiritual. INDIVIDUALS ARE NEEDED IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS: FOUNDING BOARD MEMBERS WHO WILL GIVE THE SCHOOL A LEGAL STRUCTURE AND GUIDANCE LEGAL ADVISORS TO FORM A NON-PROFIT AND OTHERWISE ADVISE FINANCIAL ADVISORS INCLUDING ACCOUNTANTS, MBA, ADMINISTRATORS, ETC. TO DIRECT THE ANNUAL BUDGET, (THIS IS STILL A PUBLIC SCHOOL SO STRICT GUIDELINES MUST BE ADHERED TO),ENVISION 3 FIVE YEAR GROWTH PROJECTIONS, ETC. TEACHERS AND TEACHER AIDS, (SOME OF WHOM MAY COME FROM SPANISH SPEAKING COUNTRIES), ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE BILINGUAL, ALTHOUGH NO ALWAYS REQUIRED. THOSE WHO ARE ALSO WILLING TO BE TRAINED IN CORE CURRICULUM, MONTESSORI, ESL, IB AND OTHER APPROACHES AND METHODS, WITH STAFF DEVELOPMENT FUNDS. OFFICE SUPPORT STAFF MAINTAINANCE STAFF CAFETERIA SUPPORT STAFF BUILDING CONTRACTORS, DEVELOPERS, ARCHITECTS, ETC PSYCHOLOGISTS, SOCIAL WORKERS, NURSES, AND OTHERSIMILAR SUPPORT STAFF PUBLIC RELATIONS, DEVELOPMENT, ECONOMIC AND FUND RAISING SPECIALISTS VOLUNTEERS IN READING WITH CHILDREN, SCHOOL BUILDING, AND MANY OTHER AREAS COMMUNITY RELATIONS GOAL: TO HAVE AS MANY BAHA'IS WORKING IN PAID AND VOLUNTEER POSITIONS AS POSSIBLE, TO HAVE A BAHA'I DOMINATED SCHOOL BOARD (CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE SCHOOL DISTRICTS UNTO THEMSELVES) ADMINISTRATION. If you are in support of creating a Baha'i PUBLIC SCHOOL, please respond to this notice ASAP and indicate in what way you are willing to serve. I would like to call for a meeting within the next 10 days in order to meet the March 18 deadline for a proposal. Kindest regards to all, Jade Amick-Fulgenzi__ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -
RE: Fw: U.S. educators needed to assist with potential Baha'i-based public school
Dear Brent and Becky, The Baha'is in Phoenix, AZ had plans to start a charter school there, in fact I think it did get started. Someone might try and get a hold of their proposal. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: FW: To Brent: one point
Surely the 'Ruhi method' does not exclude other study? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:00 PM Subject: Re: FW: To Brent: one point In a message dated 12/9/2004 1:53:44 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please clarify which aspects of Ruhi you find analagous to aspects of fundamentalist Christian groups. I was once a fundamentalist Christian and about the only similarities that I have noticed between Ruhi and our Bible Study sessions would have to be the focus on studying the Word of God. It is called the Ruhi METHOD. If you have a method and ignore study that does not use the approved method. Then it is exactly analagous to fundamentalist techniques of the Christian sort since they rely upon their own methods. Becomeing canalized is what defines fundamentalism. Regards, Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 - Release Date: 07/12/2004 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: FW: To Brent: one point
In a message dated 12/9/2004 5:33:40 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Surely the 'Ruhi method' does not exclude other study? It does not. Over and over it says it does not. However, the RTI's seem to think it does. All statistics concerning growth are measured by no other means. When you choose a method and assess progress by no other means is that not "canalization"? Regards, Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: FW: To Brent: one point
Mark, you answered, No, because a study circle has a broader function than a fireside. My question then is: how does that distinction make such a difference? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: FW: To Brent: one point
Hi, Richard, At 06:50 PM 12/9/2004, you wrote: My question then is: how does that distinction make such a difference? Firesides are individual teaching activities. The firesides conducted one person have no more official status than those conducted by others. OTOH, study circles *are* official; and, at least at the present time, one size must fit all. Mark A. Foster * http://markfoster.net Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger -- Abbie Hoffman __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: FW: To Brent: one point
My question is: You would then have the same objections to a fireside talk (rather common on 2 and 3) which has the same characteristics? Dear Richard, Well, the Guardian does tell us that we should know the Writings well enough to give them in their pure form. However, most firesides speakers will tell their seekers not to accept anything they say, but to read the Writings for themselves. What Ruhi does, though is expect the participants to parrot back the editorial comments of the author, thus imprinting them in a way a fireside does not. The Comprehensive Deepening program had as much, or even more of the author's opinion as Ruhi does, but because it didn't use the same imprinting techniques I think people were freer to read the material critically. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fw: Would the Bab have accepted Bahaullah (Mirza Hussein Ali) ?
The writings of the Blessed Bab are indeed difficult to comprehend even by Persians who know some Arabic. But those who can read it and understand it, find the fulfillment of the Babs prophesies and promises of the coming of "Whom God Will Make Manifest" in the person of Miraz Housayn Ali, Baháulláh. I know of one person who was a very devout Muslim priest, or mullah. Somehow he came upon the Bayan and after reading it he became a devout Baha'i. He became very well acquainted with the writings of the Bab and had numerous deepenings for long time Bahais on the writings of the Bab. These deepenings were attended by hundreds of Bahais each time. He carried a picture of himself wiyh him in the garbs of a Muslim priest as a reminder of his ignorance of the Faith and his awakening to it through the writings of the Bab. He was martyred in Iran around 1978-80 at the beginning of the Islamic revolution. Jilla From: "Susan Maneck" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Baha'i Studies" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fw: Would the Bab have accepted Bahaullah (Mirza Hussein Ali) ? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:54:42 -0400 I am very curious about the translation of the Bayan or other books of The Bab into English. Has it ever been done? Is it in process? Is a provisional translation underway? Dear Elainna, Denis MacEoin has translated the Persian Bayan. You can find it here: http://bahai-library.com/provisionals/bayan.html There are two problems with translating the Bab's Writings. First, they are written in a very difficult style which few can read. Second, there is some question as to which manuscripts are authentic. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
