Hi,
Bjoern Meier:
I entirely concur his language was unacceptable.
Really? All that because of that a human being used an emotional
language?
Yes. Human beings are perfectly able to communicate dislike for another
human's actions in a way that does not imply disrespect for that person.
Geeks don't complain
Geeks don't worry
:-)
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
Bjoern Meier:
I entirely concur his language was unacceptable.
Really? All that because of that a human being used an emotional
language?
Yes. Human beings are perfectly able to
Hi,
Michael Ole Olsen:
Geeks don't complain
Please don't top- and full-quote. :-P
Geeks don't worry
Good thing I don't think of myself as a geek any more, then.
Is Debian development/maintainership only meant for geeks??
--
-- Matthias Urlichs
signature.asc
Description: Digital
Hi,
Marco d'Itri:
On Oct 11, Theodore Ts'o ty...@mit.edu wrote:
but if a user
wants to use /bin/posh, that's an individual user's choice :-)
We have no obligation to support every bad idea that people have.
Policy effectively states that Debian packages shall not depend on any
features
Hi,
lee:
I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst
the users (here).
We don't do a GR among our users. We do that among Debian
members/maintainers/developers/take-your-pick.
Of those, most …
* are perfectly happy with the TC's decision
* can live with it
* are
On Oct 13, Matthias Urlichs matth...@urlichs.de wrote:
Policy effectively states that Debian packages shall not depend on any
features which posh doesn't have.
So in what way is that a bad idea, and how should one know beforehand?
That there is no reason to waste time targeting posh, which is
Hi all,
it still happens, occasionally, that buildd chroots are not
updated, which leads to mksh builds refer old versions of
gcc or some libc (used when linking the mksh-static binary)
in its Built-Using field. The buildd admin gets a REJECT
from dak, because the version is neither in testing
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Yes. Human beings are perfectly able to communicate dislike for another
human's actions in a way that does not imply disrespect for that person.
But Debian beings are not able to distinguish between disrespect
for actions made by some person (while
+++ Thorsten Glaser [2014-10-13 12:05 +0200]:
Hi all,
sbuild/buildd runs apt-get update, but not apt-get *upgrade,
before each build. But I assume this should not be changed
either…
I _think_ we don't do this because the upgrading uses a lot of time on
buildds, especially slow ones. I did
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
I assume that posh meets the strict definition of 10.4. And so
without actually changing policy, someone _could_ try setting /bin/sh
to be /bin/posh, and then start filing RC bugs against packages that
have scripts that break. Yes?
Yes, modulo two
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Dominik George wrote:
foo='x[$(rm -rf /)]'
echo $(( foo ))
Guess when the array index is evaluated? Now mind that it could be
This is fully and completely a user error. (User being the script.)
user-provided.
Never put “tainted” input into ksh arithmetics, period.
Package: general
Before systemd arrived, it was possible to have a chroot free from
init packages (not needed to build packages).
Now if I do apt-get dist-upgrade inside a minimal chroot (using
schroot here), I get this:
The following NEW packages will be installed:
acl adduser dmsetup init
On 2014-10-13 13:12, Santiago Vila wrote:
Package: general
Before systemd arrived, it was possible to have a chroot free from
init packages (not needed to build packages).
[...]
In either case, the end result is that I'm forced to install init
packages in a chroot which is used to
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
lee:
I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst
the users (here).
We don't do a GR among our users. We do that among Debian
members/maintainers/developers/take-your-pick.
Which does kind of lead back to the question of what's the point
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and upstream developers
I’m both, and I joined Debian to try to make an impact…
- the two communities most impacted, but that seem to have no say in the
matter.
… but even then, am drowned by
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 01:43:29PM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
In Wheezy, sysvinit was essential, so you would have the same issue in
stable (just with a different init system).
Oops. You are right. So this is not really a regression, only an
undesirable feature that we have had in the system
Le Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 02:21:45PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
… but even then, am drowned by the masses.
No, you are drowning the masses under your emails, that is different.
--
Charles
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:21:45 +0200
Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and upstream
developers
I’m both, and I joined Debian to try to make an impact…
- the two communities most
On Oct 13, Santiago Vila sanv...@unex.es wrote:
Oops. You are right. So this is not really a regression, only an
undesirable feature that we have had in the system for a long time.
I would be happy to fix it FWIW, but I am not sure that there is
a way to do it outside of debootstrap which will
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Neil Williams wrote:
(I did not have the chance to Second the GR proposal
because I was not even aware that there *was* one.)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/
Same procedure as previous calls for GR: debian-vote mailing list. If
Yeah, surprise, I don’t read
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 02:34:39PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Oct 13, Santiago Vila sanv...@unex.es wrote:
Oops. You are right. So this is not really a regression, only an
undesirable feature that we have had in the system for a long time.
I would be happy to fix it FWIW, but I am not
Hi,
Miles Fidelman:
Judging by the last couple of months, the rest appears to number 6 people.
A lot more than that, by my count.
Then the question is why almost all of these lot more people did not
second the GR proposal.
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
Miles Fidelman:
Judging by the last couple of months, the rest appears to number 6 people.
A lot more than that, by my count.
Then the question is why almost all of these lot more people did not
second the GR proposal.
Well... as a couple of people have now
Theodore Ts'o writes (Re: bash exorcism experiment ('bug' 762923 763012)):
I assume that posh meets the strict definition of 10.4. And so
without actually changing policy, someone _could_ try setting /bin/sh
to be /bin/posh, and then start filing RC bugs against packages that
have scripts
Miles Fidelman writes (Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)):
In reading through the archives, I have to say that the GR proposal was
both buried in all the broader discussion of systemd, rather long and
convoluted reading, and not well publicized.
If four other DDs send me and Matthew
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
belonged. The people who cared about the whole default init for Debian
question _were_
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Emmanuel Bourg ebo...@apache.org
* Package name: jenkins-ant-plugin
Version : 1.2
Upstream Author : Kohsuke Kawaguchi k...@kohsuke.org
* URL : https://github.com/jenkinsci/ant-plugin
* License : MIT
Programming Lang:
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
belonged. The people who cared about the whole default init
Santiago Vila wrote:
Before systemd arrived, it was possible to have a chroot free from
init packages (not needed to build packages).
It seems reasonable for debootstrap --variant=buildd to omit any init
systems, if it doesn't already.
--
see shy jo
signature.asc
Description: Digital
2014-10-13 18:23 GMT+02:00 Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net:
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Which, I should add, is something we measure if the user installs
popularity-contest and opts-in to
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Which, I should add, is something we measure if the user
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Which, I should add,
Hi,
[ Please followup on -user@, there is no need to have this on two
lists. ]
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
http://popcon.debian.org/
which sure seems to reinforce the popularity of sysvinit
18sysvinit
At Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:23:16 -0400,
Miles Fidelman wrote:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Le lundi, 13 octobre 2014, 12.23:00 Miles Fidelman a écrit :
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet
to be noticed by 6+ people.
Actually - I'd contest that, for four reasons:
- as I've previously noted - the major impacts of
Hi,
Joey Hess jo...@debian.org writes:
Santiago Vila wrote:
Before systemd arrived, it was possible to have a chroot free from
init packages (not needed to build packages).
It seems reasonable for debootstrap --variant=buildd to omit any init
systems, if it doesn't already.
It seems a bit
control: reassign -1 debootstrap
control: retitle -1 variant=buildd should not install init systems
Hi,
On Montag, 13. Oktober 2014, Joey Hess wrote:
It seems reasonable for debootstrap --variant=buildd to omit any init
systems, if it doesn't already.
seems reasonable indeed, reassigning
Processing control commands:
reassign -1 debootstrap
Bug #765076 [general] general: No way to have a clean chroot for building
packages
Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'debootstrap'.
Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #765076 to the same values
previously set
Ignoring
Hello,
I'm planning to NMU nfdump, and have been unable to contact the maintainer
(his
MTA says I'm a spammer). Has anyone else been in contact with Erik lately?
Echelon has seen him last time 18 months ago.
On longer term, I'm planning to adopt the package, unless someone beats me
to it.
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:17:19AM +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Thorsten Glaser [2014-10-13 12:05 +0200]:
sbuild/buildd runs apt-get update, but not apt-get *upgrade,
before each build. But I assume this should not be changed
either…
I _think_ we don't do this because the upgrading uses a
On 12.10.2014 23:41, Vincent Bernat wrote:
I thought that the pm-suspend part of acpid/acpi-support was disabled
when systemd is detected. See /usr/share/acpi-support/policy-funcs.
I forgot to mention that the experiment was on a sysvinit-core setup,
i.e. no pid 1 systemd. With systemd it works
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
2014-10-07 15:03:05 +0200, Thorsten Glaser:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014, Russ Allbery wrote:
If we were to decide that #309415 should be fixed in policy (and hence
posh), then it should be done by requiring support for the obsolescent
The problems with posh and dash are also the sheer number of
Package: wnpp
Owner: gregor herrmann gre...@debian.org
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org,debian-p...@lists.debian.org
* Package name: libmodule-runtime-conflicts-perl
Version : 0.001
Upstream Author : Karen Etheridge et...@cpan.org
* URL :
2014-10-13 12:21:33 +0200, Thorsten Glaser:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Dominik George wrote:
foo='x[$(rm -rf /)]'
echo $(( foo ))
Guess when the array index is evaluated? Now mind that it could be
This is fully and completely a user error. (User being the script.)
user-provided.
Stephane Chazelas dixit:
[ a lot, with which I vehemently disagree ]
If you need arrays, use $@ or use perl/python/ruby..., but
please don't break yet another shell with the Korn arrays or
arithmetics.
The good part about mksh i̲s̲ that it’s a programming language,
a nice one to use, much more
2014-09-29 09:22:58 +1000, Russell Stuart:
On Sun, 2014-09-28 at 16:47 +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:
I've attempted to port the many shell scripts I've written over the
years to dash. The three irritants are:
- pipefail,
http://cfajohnson.com/shell/cus-faq-2.html#Q11.
That's
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Jaakko Niemi jaakko.ni...@iki.fi wrote:
Hello,
I'm planning to NMU nfdump, and have been unable to contact the maintainer
(his
MTA says I'm a spammer). Has anyone else been in contact with Erik lately?
I packaged up nfsen a while ago (maybe 16 months) and
2014-10-02 10:06:50 -0400, shawn wilson:
[...]
I hate the idea of dash. It's not more secure (see vmware cve for an
example) and I think it was more of an accident than anything else this
didn't hit dash too.
[...]
That CVE is not about a bug in dash. There are a few
misconceptions around that
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
Right now it is the defaults effect, because Debian stable is included in
the report. We don't have a testing + unstable report.
Yes we do: sysvinit-core systemd-sysv systemd-shim
Joey Hess jo...@debian.org writes:
Yes we do: sysvinit-core systemd-sysv systemd-shim
https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=sysvinit-core+systemd-sysv+systemd-shimshow_installed=onshow_vote=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
[...]
+++ Didier 'OdyX' Raboud [2014-10-13 17:33 +0200]:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
belonged. The people who cared
Philip Hands writes (Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)):
I'm completely astonished that Ian is willing to suggest that four more
people pledging support for it at this stage would be enough for him to
attempt CPR on its putrid corpse.
You put me in an awkward position. My email was an
Joey Hess wrote:
A small percentage of server users are avoiding swiching to systemd,
although that group looks to still be shrinking somewhat.
Of course, not many people use unstable/testing for servers, so we don't
really know much from popcon yet about whether server admins will go for
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Tille andr...@an3as.eu (2014-10-08):
On Sun, Oct 05, 2014 at 09:11:24PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
The Debian Installer team[1] is pleased to announce the second beta
release of the installer for Debian 8 Jessie.
...
thanks for your report and your continuous
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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 16:30:36 -0700
Source: nvidia-graphics-modules
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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 13:23:42 +0200
Source: motif
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Version: 2.3.4-6
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:00:10 +1000
Source: pyelliptic
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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:37:32 +0200
Source: guitarix
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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Roland Stigge sti...@antcom.de
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:53:51 +0200
Source: sope
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Version: 2.2.9-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Jeroen Dekkers jer...@dekkers.ch
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:18:51 +0800
Source: pdfmod
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:27:37 +0200
Source: jedit
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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers
pkg-java-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:27:05 +0200
Source: dune-grid-glue
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Architecture: all amd64 source
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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 21:32:08 +0200
Source: jackson-dataformat-cbor
Binary: libjackson2-dataformat-cbor libjackson2-dataformat-cbor-doc
Architecture: source all
Version: 2.4.3-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:06:55 +0200
Source: jenkins-matrix-auth-plugin
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Version: 1.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers
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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 16:04:19 +0200
Source: libiri-perl
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Version: 0.004-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group pkg-perl-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:45:47 +0200
Source: jenkins-matrix-project-plugin
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Version: 1.3-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:45:47 +0200
Source: pytest
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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Python Modules Team
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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:23:51 +0200
Source: nagios-snmp-plugins
Binary: nagios-snmp-plugins
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Version: 1.1.1-10
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Nagios Maintainer Group
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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 00:51:26 +0200
Source: jenkins-job-builder
Binary: jenkins-job-builder
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.9.0-0.1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Paul Belanger paul.belan...@polybeacon.com
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Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 19:50:37 +0900
Source: plsense
Binary: plsense
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.3.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: KURASHIKI Satoru lur...@gmail.com
Changed-By: KURASHIKI Satoru
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