[PSES] Couple of loosely related safety questions

1. Clearances for US Safety: I'd cite the relevant standards, but they are so alike (identical Clearance tables), and so alike to UL 508, I'll defer. Here's the question: When citing clearance spacing from "uninsulated live components" does one measure from the edge of a PCB to the

[PSES] Conducted emissions test bench

We're going to DIY a portable table for CE. We won't have a dedicated space for it, so the table and ground plane will need to me ... portable.1. How big must the test table be for normal FCC class B (CISPR 16, I think) conducted emissions, from 0.15 - 30 MHz?Same question for the ground

[PSES] Fw: Re: [PSES] Radiated Emissions - How many points to QP?

Just finished some testing at an accredited lab. For an accredited report, they run QPs on all measurements whose peak are w/in 6 dB of the limit. I don't know if that's their rule, or by the regulations. FYI Colorado Brian -- Forwarded Message -- From: Bill Owsley

[PSES] Conducted emissions for Split-phase 120/240V needs three-phase LISN?

Hello and Happy Friday, I've got a sales guy telling me our 120/240V EUT needs two pair of single-phase LISNs for our CE test bench.That's only slightly cheaper than a 3-phase unit at > 50A, but very bulky. Can someone remind me why I'd need 4, 50A single-phase LISNs for our unit? I could see

[PSES] MTBF Calculations / testing

Hello,this is a little off topic for an EMC board, but y'all have a great ken ("ken" not _Ken_ Wyatt, even as great as he is). Can anyone recommend a lab or company to help us run some MTBF calculations for a N. American residential appliance? thank you, Colorado Brian -

[PSES] Fw: Re: [PSES] ISED Requirements for Self-Declaration of Conformity

good place to start is with the documents RSS-Gen, General Requirements for Compliance of Radio Apparatus, and ICES-Gen, General Requirements for Compliance of Interference-Causing Equipment. Doug NixKitchener, Ontario, canadad...@mac.com+1 (519) 729-5704 On Feb 22, 2024, at 13:54, Brian Greg

[PSES] ISED Requirements for Self-Declaration of Conformity

Hello fellow EMC Nerds, I had posted a time or two on our EMC issues with a unit that has a class B certified WiFi/BT module. With improved results compared to the originally approved unit, we've been able to attest to compliance via the SELF DECLARATION of CONFORMITY (SDoC) process as

[PSES] Metallic table for conducted emissions?

Hello fellow experts, we're looking to build a conducted emission pre-compliance test station to FCC Part 15 Subpart B requirements (residential applications).Is a non-metallic table a necessity for reasonable accuracy? We have a number of lab benches with wood tops and metal legs that would

Re: [PSES] FCC label for White Labeled products

doing any more Subpart C. > Unless you have separately certified your product as a radio transmitter, > theres no other FCC ID label for you to apply No, they didn't go that far: the "Grantee Code" above is the FCC ID of the WiFi module. Thanks for the feedback!Colorado Bria

[PSES] FCC label for White Labeled products

Hello experts, Our existing product label has our FCC ID, just under the FCC logo in the classic form:x-y, where x = the FCC ID of the imbedded, compliant WiFi model ("Grantee Code" in FCC lingo), and y = our product name, per the UL label. ("Product Code" ). We're

Re: [PSES] 10m chambers in Colorado?

know, NTS is now the only 3rd party test lab in Colorado with 10m chambers. Kenneth WyattWoodland Park, COSent from my iPhone. On Nov 8, 2023, at 14:25, Brian Gregory wrote: Hello experts, once upon a time, there were several 10m chambers in Colorado, 3-4 north of Denver that I knew

[PSES] 10m chambers in Colorado?

Hello experts, once upon a time, there were several 10m chambers in Colorado, 3-4 north of Denver that I knew about.The only one I know should still exist is at NTS in Longmont; the ones that were at Hp and StorageTek are long gone, I'm afraid. NTS is now owned by Element, with whom I've

[PSES] 2 simple questions on EMC

Hi, 1. Our unit is passing by a whisker, under 1dB @ 30 Mhz in a 3m chamber against SubpartB requirements. Can we expect margin to improve in a 10m chamber? 2. It's lightly loaded in the chamber (10% of FL), we do expect the peak to squash down a bit with full load; they do when going from

[PSES] FCC product registration - listed module

I finally got the feedback I was seeking from a swarm of quotes for EMC testing for FCC and ISED, concerning qualifying a product with an FCC-registered WiFi module deployed onto our PCB. I've tried processing the FCC orders on what upholds or doesn't when placing the module on your PCB and

Re: [PSES] AI & Regulatory Compliance

Chat GPT is essentially a BS generator. A very smart friend, a very successful entrepreneur, finds it quite useful for writing add copy, which I think proved my point. The one time I tried challenging GPT with a question on power factor with generator convention (where positive power

[PSES] Timeframe for new FCC registration

Hello, I'd like to have all options fleshed out prior to committing to a fairly expensive quote for full FCC & ISED re-test and re-register our level 2 EV Charging unit for residential applications, which already has FCC and ISED registration numbers. If we choose the option of not

[PSES] Reliability/Fault analysis tools?

EV Chargers getting more and more complicated For our controls investigations, hardware failures need to be assessed. One of the safety standards calls out MIL-STD-217, which has got to be nearly as old as my Dad. Looking for more up to date, modern and computer-based processes and

[PSES] Fw: FCC/ISED file change update

: David Schaefer To: Brian Gregory , "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" Subject: RE: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 15:42:24 + - This message is from the IEEE Prod

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

ired component standard, there is no degradation. Reducing he capacitance would be a degradation for EMC but not for safety. Who determines the class is the person who has all the necessary data. The test house of surveillance authority check the decision. On 2023-08-09 23:20, Brian Gregory wrote: H

[PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Hello EMC experts, A question came up today about filing new results to FCC for our legacy product. 1. If the filing is only for FCC, then the lab providing the report does not need A2LA accreditation,2. If the filing is for a safety report, then the lab does need A2LA accreditation. Have I

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

of the modulation as 20 V/m. I don't know where these are defined. Thanks for all the detailed replies! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate To: Brian Gregory Subject: Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023

[PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

Hello colleagues, We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2. It calls out IEC 61000-4-3 for immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field strength of 20V/m. Our EMC expert says typically

[PSES] FCC Part B questions

Hi there, A question came up that I can't answer w/o a copy of Part 47.Does the FCC report require Quasi-Peak (QP) data, or just Avg and Peak. When do peak readings trigger the need to report QP? I'm pretty sure Part 15 has AVG and QP limits listed. Next was what sort of margin is expected

Re: [PSES] Techstreet Tracking standards

Word is that IEEE/SA bought up Techstreet a while back.My Chrome browser automatically routes me to IEEE/SA. The Edge browser gets me to the old Techstreet page, and tells me that I'm already registered :-) So, they must be one... at some point! Brian Gregory 720-450-4933

[PSES] Tracking standards updates

Good afternoon compliance colleagues, Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very process-oriented.So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in multiple markets (US, EU, etc.). I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC

[PSES] EMS in NFPA

I'd posted a week or two back about residential EV chargers.Here's the current theory: My company sells a that's residential energy monitoring system (V2) certified to 61010, an and EV charger certified to UL 2564. Customers assert that extra market can be obtained by combined deployment of

Re: [PSES] Vehicle Chargers

Yes,these are all UL. We've got a short list of SAE "J" standards as well, and we do have plans to go to the UK, but not right now, that I know of. Thanks. Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject:

[PSES] Vehicle Chargers

As in EV chargers. Just started a new gig, and I'm back in compliance.Looking for info on testing & compliance to the applicable standards: 2202, 2231, and an exciting new concept that might require 9741 or 916. Please advise if this is off scope for what's titled an EMC ListServe, but my

[PSES] Fw: Re: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

Conductive epoxy bonding the probe to the surface?Calibrate with a current shunt. "Colorado" Brian 720-450-4933 -- Forwarded Message -- From: Marko Radojicic <052300254e41-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] How to Measure

[PSES] PSES: EMC engineer, Salem VA

without regard to race, color, religion, gender, age, disability, military status, national origin or any other characteristic protected under federal, state, or applicable local law Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 - This message is from th

[PSES] RF engineer needed

(Brian Gregory) 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: Paul Scott To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Implementing decision 2019/1326 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:46:32 + Hello, With regards to the standards listed in Annex I of this implementing decision

Re: [PSES] Thermal equilibrium - 10% rule

I worked for a NRTL for years, and no reviewer worth his salt ever accepted an equation for thermal time constant or steady-state temperature. Just the data, Ma'am Brian Gregory720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: Doug Powell To:

Re: [PSES] PV Connectors: UL 6(9)703?

Thanks Dave, that was very helpful! Where did you find this bulletin? I can't get anything from their website... Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: "Nyffenegger, Dave" <dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com> To: Brian Gregory <brian_greg...@netz

[PSES] PV Connectors: UL 6(9)703?

I'm trying to find out if UL 6703 (connectors for PV systems) is being upgraded to UL 9703 or the other way around. UL's site isn't helpful - it could be drawings I got are just misprinted, but there was a UL 9703, "Outline for Investigation" thanks, Colorado Brian720-450-4933 --

Re: [PSES] Using 60hz motors in 50hz countries

The third Brian opines: do what O'Connel says, then do a few tests, too!Adjust load ratings for 50 Hz if necessary... Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: "Brian O'Connell" <oconne...@tamuracorp.com> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject:

Re: [PSES] Need a LARGE Chamber

Intertek has a group out of Boston that specializes in "in situ" EMC testing, even outdoors. That's the best bet I can think of. Colorado Brian -- Original Message -- From: Ken Javor To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a LARGE

Re: [PSES] SAFETY FEATURES controlled by ....SOFTWARE

Just like CE Compliance, the scope statement is the key. OEM's should state carefully where and how one does these things:the best use of language is not to say "it's SAFE" (unless you're a paid umpire). I counsel my customers to say that products have been tested to be in compliance with

Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US

NESC and NETA {2013} are both ANSI standards and are both pretty much aimed at the utility-distribution crowd: aka, 4 kV and above. Colorado Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IE

Re: [PSES] NEC 2017

Let's also remember that there are categories of Listed products at companies like UL, CSA and Intertek: including 'recognized' and 'approved.' The difference is out of scope for this discussion. The proper phrase from a legal standpoint IMO, should be approved and not "listed." As such,

Re: [PSES] Transformer insulation class

To simplify; I often saw transformers declared class A pretty simply w/o any record of an independent evaluation or certification. Higher classes are another matter completely. To get a transformer approved for operation above the limits for class A, one needs a separate evaluation. I'll

Re: [PSES] power quality monitors/analyzers

For field use I've found Dranetz and RPM (http://www.powerqualityinc.com/rpm.html) to be the most durable. Colorado Brian -- Original Message -- From: "Brian O'Connell" To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] power quality

Re: [PSES] Standards for Photo Voltaics Inverter

Grace,Safety standards are: IEC 62109-1 and UL 62109-1 is now approved for N.America. Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: Grace Lin <graceli...@gmail.com> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Standards for Photo Voltaics Inverter Date: Thu,

Re: [PSES] grounding of output of solar inverter

Brian is right; all NEC rules apply to the installation. In this case, the practical solution could be a sub-panel for the house loads that are served by the inverter, but there are several ways it could be done. You are looking inside the inverter (and the inverter safety standard) for the

Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce?

t;other" Scott?) just made a similar point... I will post anyway. On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Brian Gregory <brian_greg...@netzero.net> wrote: If you read the article (and others) it can be read either way. The blog's purpose is to give Compliance Officers tools, refer

Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce?

If you read the article (and others) it can be read either way. The blog's purpose is to give Compliance Officers tools, reference information and background as to what is going on. That the SEC is getting involved in Compliance investigations indicates to me increased scrutiny of

Re: [PSES] spacex EMC tst engr job

Just so's all of you know; Hawthorn isn't exactly the jewel of the west! Colorado Brian -- Original Message -- From: Ed Price To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] spacex EMC tst engr job Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:25:03 -0800 Yes, that 50 WPM

Re: [PSES] Cable retention force

UL 508A refers us to UL 310 for bushings; UL 486A-486B Table 27 has values for #30 up to 2000 kCM, but that is only based on cable size, not the weight of equipment. My non-indexed search didn't come up with anything else through a dozen or so IEC standards while searching for "retention"

Re: [PSES] Unexplained High Fallout of Power Supplies

-- Original Message -- From: "Kunde, Brian" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:13:33 + Hello Brian, > test to IEC 61000-4-11 I think the problem is line surges external to your units, and you are on the right track when you suspect that all the test

Re: [PSES] IEC 61010-1 Table K.17

Doug, The standard must assume the RF circuits are even more energy-limited than secondary circuits is my best guess. If so, it doesn't say that anywhere I could find. It takes voltage, but also energy to create an ionizing path. Regards, Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original

Re: [PSES] Accreditation for standard comprehension?

The only ones that come to mind are ISO audits, and the contractual requirements between you entity and the NRTL/NB you engage to provide your certifications. These only require that you possess the standard in question and employees can locate it when necessary, thereby establishing

Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains

useful by actual customers. That being said, I've got the feeling that an informed answer would require a fairly detailed account of getting dinged in Europe Regards, Brian Gregory[Colorado] 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com To: EMC

Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains

-- Original Message -- From: Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:54:17 + Brian, thanks for your input. Can the potential hazard be addresses without English Text which may be misunderstood by those unfamiliar with the language? Wouldnrsquo;t

Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains

that exposure to potential hazards have been addressed. Sometimes, when risk was more elevated (higher voltage, easy access to device internals via battery compartments), I would require my customers, if they wanted their approval label, to beef up their labeling. Regards,Brian Gregory 720-450-4933

Re: [PSES] NEC vs CEC for Transformer Protection

needs to be sustained would be in either UL 5085-3 or C22.2 #66.1 under temperature or abnormal testing (sorry, don't have them handy) in real world terms, this is 10~15 min. but in some cases is stretched out until the XF gets to a stable temperature. Good luck! Brian Gregory 720-450-4933

Re: [PSES] Nameplate and DoC requirements Machinery Directive

Advice from one with mostly US experience, but with an NRTL/NB: Until otherwise prohibited by MD, best practices are: - use of company issued documentation to properly describe the products covered by a DoC. Types, application and ratings need to be crystal clear in the documentation. Use

Re: [PSES] UL Trademark and Tradename Indexes no longer public

person will give to end the call. However, I do not believe UL is legally bound to keep detailed records public, only Company Name file number. Hence, #3 is a valuable skill to have. Regards,Brian Gregory - This message is from