Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist
What's more important than the content of what Baseball Bugs said, to me, was the underlying assumption; that there couldn't possibly be any women around who might be offended. I'd venture that most people would hesitate to recount a particularly hilarious episode of South Park featuring the character Timmy (a caricature of a disabled boy) if they were standing next to a stranger in a wheelchair, because for most people it's slightly more important not to hurt someone's feelings than it is to impress others with their wit. Maybe the person in the wheelchair also thinks Timmy is hilarious -- but maybe he or she doesn't, and I think most people would agree that it's not worth the risk of coming off as offensive or insensitive until they know for sure. Similarly, I think if Bugs was aware that there *are* (gasp) women on the Internet, and on Wikipedia even, he would have thought twice before posting a comment about how women do and do not act. For me, this is a great example of Wikipedia's problematic gender dynamic in action: it's not about directed hostility and hounding of female contributors (though that may very well happen). To me, it's more about a majority that does not see the problem because it doesn't ever hear the minority voice -- and in the rare cases when they do hear it, they choose to interpret it as shrill and reactionary. And it's about a minority that doesn't want to be painted as a bunch of hysterical reactionaries, so they continue to remain silent. So thank you, Fluffy, for speaking out calmly and sensibly, even if it seems like nobody's listening. It may feel discouraging and frustrating, but I'm absolutely certain that it's little acts like that that are going to make a big difference :) Maryana ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
BaseballBugs has a problematic history at the reference desk. This isn't the first time he's made sexist comments there.[1] Unfortunately, none of this context was brought up in the discussion about the block. The unblock was a knee-jerk reaction from a superficial evaluation. Arguably, the block was a knee-jerk reaction as well. Bad behavior all around, in my opinion. Ryan Kaldari 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2010_January_21#Orgasm On 10/12/11 7:10 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote: I never said that I agreed or disagreed with the block. I was merely expressing that some of the comments made in regards to the comment the blocked user made were interesting. A nice selection of people didn't see anything sexist about the comment, or the potential to find anything sexist within it. I also think it's not a healthy environment when people think a witty person is just being, well, witty and clever as always, and that it's acceptable and perhaps doesn't require any reprimanding, perhaps on any level. And I do agree with Fred, the admin was perhaps just reacting to what they saw - after some of the stories, talk page comments, and behavior of some users - of any gender - I can see how the occasional admin jumps the gun. It's very easy to do when you have good faith while trying to defend the users of an environment you care so deeply about. I have also been described as a snarky, witty, clever (among other names) person and even to this day I open my big mouth and regret what I say, on occasion. I also expect to be reprimanded when I'm out of line and while that comment might not have been extreme (as Fluffernutter pointed out), other comments have been that other users have been made on Wikipedia and related projects, and people most often walk off without being taught a lesson. I think it's fascinating. But, perhaps I'm in the minority (oh wait, I am ;-)...ok..just being witty!)... -Sarah On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM, icewe...@gmail.com mailto:icewe...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way to criticize a any action justified with sexism without adding to the persecution complex here? Honest question. Blocking a user for comments made a week prior falls a mile out of standard process. Blocking a user who tries to explain himself without begging for mercy falls a mile out of process. It was a ridiculous power trip by the blocking admin and was over turned as such. The only concerning thing in the thread was how a bogus block was sized upon and defended as an opportunity to crusade against the boyzone [sic]. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting /Historical, cultural artistic research advising./ -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
One easy way to fix all of these searches is to create Gallery pages for these terms. If a gallery page for cucumber existed, all searches for cucumber would go immediately to that gallery page rather than pulling up random images. Ryan Kaldari On 10/12/11 3:49 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Thanks for the link, Brandon. I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l yesterday (as well as on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good. Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons: pearl necklace cucumber Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush) toothbrush electric toothbrushes jumping ball underwater ... and likely many, many others. Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org mailto:bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
The first hit is a gallery page. From Wikipedia articles we link to Commons and limit it to galleries images if one exists. But with searches all the images show up. Sydney On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote: ** One easy way to fix all of these searches is to create Gallery pages for these terms. If a gallery page for cucumber existed, all searches for cucumber would go immediately to that gallery page rather than pulling up random images. Ryan Kaldari On 10/12/11 3:49 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Thanks for the link, Brandon. I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l yesterday (as well as on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good. Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons: pearl necklace cucumber Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush) toothbrush electric toothbrushes jumping ball underwater ... and likely many, many others. Andreas -- *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto: Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pearl_necklaces Wee! On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.comwrote: The first hit is a gallery page. From Wikipedia articles we link to Commons and limit it to galleries images if one exists. But with searches all the images show up. Sydney On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote: ** One easy way to fix all of these searches is to create Gallery pages for these terms. If a gallery page for cucumber existed, all searches for cucumber would go immediately to that gallery page rather than pulling up random images. Ryan Kaldari On 10/12/11 3:49 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Thanks for the link, Brandon. I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l yesterday (as well as on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good. Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons: pearl necklace cucumber Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush) toothbrush electric toothbrushes jumping ball underwater ... and likely many, many others. Andreas -- *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto: Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
Ryan, Creating galleries would mitigate the problem for these half-dozen searches (though not eliminate it, as users would still have the option of searching Commons rather than navigating to a Commons page). But it's like the story of the Dutch boy trying to plug a hole in the levee with his finger. (Searching for levee in Commons brings up an image of a naked Suicide Girl called Levee in third place.) We should be under no illusion that we can find all search terms whose results violate the principle of least surprise, presenting adult images for everyday search terms. New such situations arise on a daily basis, each time someone uploads an explicit file that has a plausible search term in its name and description (try searching Commons for eating, and then search for drinking; or try finding images of Prince Albert). We should simply offer safe search, like Google does. Andreas From: Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2011, 19:31 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches One easy way to fix all of these searches is to create Gallery pages for these terms. If a gallery page for cucumber existed, all searches for cucumber would go immediately to that gallery page rather than pulling up random images. Ryan Kaldari On 10/12/11 3:49 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Thanks for the link, Brandon. I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l yesterday (as well as on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good. Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons: pearl necklace cucumber Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush) toothbrush electric toothbrushes jumping ball underwater ... and likely many, many others. Andreas From: Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
I've created a page for the singular as well, with a redirect to your page. ;) Andreas From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2011, 20:14 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pearl_necklaces Wee! On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.com wrote: The first hit is a gallery page. From Wikipedia articles we link to Commons and limit it to galleries images if one exists. But with searches all the images show up. Sydney On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: One easy way to fix all of these searches is to create Gallery pages for these terms. If a gallery page for cucumber existed, all searches for cucumber would go immediately to that gallery page rather than pulling up random images. Ryan Kaldari On 10/12/11 3:49 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Thanks for the link, Brandon. I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l yesterday (as well as on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good. Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons: pearl necklace cucumber Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush) toothbrush electric toothbrushes jumping ball underwater ... and likely many, many others. Andreas From: Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
On 10/14/11, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Ryan, Creating galleries would mitigate the problem for these half-dozen searches (though not eliminate it, as users would still have the option of searching Commons rather than navigating to a Commons page). But it's like the story of the Dutch boy trying to plug a hole in the levee with his finger. We arnt one dutch boy. We are legion dutch boys (and an increasing number of girls) taking turns to plug the metaphorical hole in the levee, and we scan the wall for new holes. And we build houses and windmills at the same time. We massively distribute tasks while we wait for the developers to create permanent fixes or create preventative tools. (Searching for levee in Commons brings up an image of a naked Suicide Girl called Levee in third place.) Its a thumbnail for !@#$ sake, and anyone who finds that image offensive should turn off their internet connection. I am sure you'll be appalled that libraries include nude pictures in their search results, often when searching for something else. http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=contemporary+north+america+20th+century fix the metadata. create a gallery page. create a category and populate it. etc p.s. abstract art offends me. Can we please remove media related to John Levee's from the Commons search results for the term 'Levee'. ;-) We should be under no illusion that we can find all search terms whose results violate the principle of least surprise, presenting adult images for everyday search terms. New such situations arise on a daily basis, each time someone uploads an explicit file that has a plausible search term in its name and description (try searching Commons for eating, and then search for drinking; or try finding images of Prince Albert). The ordering of the search results isnt ideal. Have you raised a bug? It puts too much weight on the filename, which isnt good because recommend against rename, so the current search results are gamable by the uploader. We should simply offer safe search, like Google does. Google provides safe search. They need to convert 'the internet' into a search results page that their customer wants to see, and the Internet has a whole lot of stuff that 99% of the world never wants to see. Wikipedia provides encyclopedic information. Commons provides a depository of media, and if you search for keywords in the metadata you'll see thumbnails of the matching media. -- John Vandenberg ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
* ChaoticFluffy wrote: Hi Björn, thanks for a very thoughtful email. I just want to point out that the problematic comment the user made was not calling another user a woman. If you think we would be better off if the comment had not been made in the manner it has been made, I think we should look at what lead to it and how to avoid similar circumstances that may lead to similar comments in the future. I offered an interpretation and steps to mitigate this kind of problem in the future in line with my personal experience. I do not care about identifying the greatest offense, I care about educating people so they can understand reactions to their communications and be- havior before they communicate and do things. Consider how this incident would have unfolded if the blocked user had never called the other user a he. It wouldn't have, there would have been no reason to point this apparent mistake out, no need to respond, no warning, no response to the warning, no block, no discussion about the block, no thread here, etc. -- Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de 25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
John, From: John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com (Searching for levee in Commons brings up an image of a naked Suicide Girl called Levee in third place.) Its a thumbnail for !@#$ sake, and anyone who finds that image offensive should turn off their internet connection. It's a perfectly nice image, but does it answer the user's need? In most cases probably not. If I google levee, I see levees, not nude girls: http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=cq=leveeum=1ie=UTF-8hl=entbm=ischsource=ogsa=Ntab=wibiw=1041bih=638 If I want to google for pictures of Levee, I google for Levee Suicide Girls, and there she is: http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=cq=leveeum=1ie=UTF-8hl=entbm=ischsource=ogsa=Ntab=wibiw=1041bih=638#um=1hl=entbm=ischsa=1q=levee+suicide+girlpbx=1oq=levee+suicide+girlaq=faqi=aql=gs_sm=egs_upl=127182l129981l0l130379l15l15l0l11l0l0l291l930l0.1.3l4l0bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osbfp=120e52a58330422ebiw=1041bih=638 I guess Commons should give more weight to categories, and less weight to file names. So when I google cucumber, it should show me images in the cucumber category first of all, and not images that happen to have cucumber in the title. Brandon, is there something developers could do in this regard? I am sure you'll be appalled that libraries include nude pictures in their search results, often when searching for something else. http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=contemporary+north+america+20th+century fix the metadata. create a gallery page. create a category and populate it. etc p.s. abstract art offends me. Can we please remove media related to John Levee's from the Commons search results for the term 'Levee'. ;-) We should be under no illusion that we can find all search terms whose results violate the principle of least surprise, presenting adult images for everyday search terms. New such situations arise on a daily basis, each time someone uploads an explicit file that has a plausible search term in its name and description (try searching Commons for eating, and then search for drinking; or try finding images of Prince Albert). The ordering of the search results isnt ideal. Have you raised a bug? The thing is, John, it's not a bug. How is it a bug? The image is called Drinking urine or whatever, and so it's a valid search result for drinking. No doubt, a bunch of people would argue that it would be non-neutral to exclude it from the search results for drinking, because Wikipedia is not censored, and we don't care if people are unhappy with our service, because that would be non-neutral. ;) Imagine rant here. It puts too much weight on the filename, which isnt good because recommend against rename, so the current search results are gamable by the uploader. We should simply offer safe search, like Google does. Google provides safe search. They need to convert 'the internet' into a search results page that their customer wants to see, and the Internet has a whole lot of stuff that 99% of the world never wants to see. Wikipedia provides encyclopedic information. Commons provides a depository of media, and if you search for keywords in the metadata you'll see thumbnails of the matching media. I find Google safe search seriously useful, because it gives me a choice, and enables me to tailor my search to my requirements. If I want to see porn, I can see porn. If I'm looking for something else, I can prevent my search being flooded with porn. If I am a researcher looking for images of Prince Albert on Commons, I would appreciate not being forced to wade through dozens of images of penises with rings in them to find the image I'm looking for. http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Searchredirs=1ns0=1ns6=1ns9=1ns12=1ns14=1ns100=1ns106=1search=Prince+albertlimit=500offset=0 We will not attract a more mature audience until we get our act together. Andreas___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
Ryan, We have just performed a 24,000-people referendum on a personal image filter, and the Board has declared a willingness to devote resources to implementing a corresponding solution. If that work is done, we would also have all we need to make the Commons search function – which is also the Wikipedia multimedia search function – work in a way that would provide users with the results they are actually looking for. Andreas From: Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, 14 October 2011, 1:47 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Unfortunately we currently have zero developers working on search (as far as I know). There are several more significant search bugs that are also not going to be fixed any time soon. Another issue is that our search engine is Java while the rest of MediaWiki is PHP. This makes sense for performance reasons, but makes the pool of potential developers who are able and willing to work on it much smaller. In other words, this might get fixed in a few years, but I wouldn't hold my breathe. In the meantime, it would be good to follow Sarah's lead and proactively curate the content we have so that there is less potential for astonishment in our search results. Ryan Kaldari On 10/13/11 5:37 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: John, From: John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com (Searching for levee in Commons brings up an image of a naked Suicide Girl called Levee in third place.) Its a thumbnail for !@#$ sake, and anyone who finds that image offensive should turn off their internet connection. It's a perfectly nice image, but does it answer the user's need? In most cases probably not. If I google levee, I see levees, not nude girls: http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=cq=leveeum=1ie=UTF-8hl=entbm=ischsource=ogsa=Ntab=wibiw=1041bih=638 If I want to google for pictures of Levee, I google for Levee Suicide Girls, and there she is: http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=cq=leveeum=1ie=UTF-8hl=entbm=ischsource=ogsa=Ntab=wibiw=1041bih=638#um=1hl=entbm=ischsa=1q=levee+suicide+girlpbx=1oq=levee+suicide+girlaq=faqi=aql=gs_sm=egs_upl=127182l129981l0l130379l15l15l0l11l0l0l291l930l0.1.3l4l0bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osbfp=120e52a58330422ebiw=1041bih=638 I guess Commons should give more weight to categories, and less weight to file names. So when I google cucumber, it should show me images in the cucumber category first of all, and not images that happen to have cucumber in the title. Brandon, is there something developers could do in this regard? I am sure you'll be appalled that libraries include nude pictures in their search results, often when searching for something else. http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=contemporary+north+america+20th+century fix the metadata. create a gallery page. create a category and populate it. etc p.s. abstract art offends me. Can we please remove media related to John Levee's from the Commons search results for the term 'Levee'. ;-) We should be under no illusion that we can find all search terms whose results violate the principle of least surprise, presenting adult images for everyday search terms. New such situations arise on a daily basis, each time someone uploads an explicit file that has a plausible search term in its name and description (try searching Commons for eating, and then search for drinking; or try finding images of Prince Albert). The ordering of the search results isnt ideal. Have you raised a bug? The thing is, John, it's not a bug. How is it a bug? The image is called Drinking urine or whatever, and so it's a valid search result for drinking. No doubt, a bunch of people would argue that it would be non-neutral to exclude it from the search results for drinking, because Wikipedia is not censored, and we don't care if people are unhappy with our service, because that would be non-neutral. ;) Imagine rant here. It puts too much weight on the filename, which isnt good because recommend against rename, so the current search results are gamable by the uploader. We should simply offer safe search, like Google does. Google provides safe search. They need to convert 'the internet' into a search results page that their customer wants to see, and the Internet has a whole lot of stuff that 99% of the world never wants to see. Wikipedia provides encyclopedic information. Commons provides a depository of media, and if you search for keywords in the
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
Brandon, Would it be a lot of work to give primary weight in the Commons search listing order to files included in 1. Categories (top level only) and 2. Galleries whose name matches the search term (or is the plural thereof)? So the top files listed for cucumber, say, would be all the files shown in http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cucumber and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cucumbers ? Andreas On 10/13/11 5:47 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote: Unfortunately we currently have zero developers working on search (as far as I know). There are several more significant search bugs that are also not going to be fixed any time soon. Another issue is that our search engine is Java while the rest of MediaWiki is PHP. This makes sense for performance reasons, but makes the pool of potential developers who are able and willing to work on it much smaller. In other words, this might get fixed in a few years, but I wouldn't hold my breathe. In the meantime, it would be good to follow Sarah's lead and proactively curate the content we have so that there is less potential for astonishment in our search results. Yeah; this is really a curation issue and not a search engine issue. Sadly, I'm one of the few people at the Foundation who knows Java or could even work on this, but I expect that there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth were I to spend much time on this. -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
