Re: [GNC-dev] Git Questions With Documentation

2018-09-15 Thread David Cousens
David,

I am not sure what is the best way to work on the new documentation with
you.  One way fo doing it would be for me to fork your personal  repository
into mine. I can then add the changes into your bug branch, push them to my
PR and then create a pull request to your PR to pull the changes into that
branch on your PR. 

We don't want any changes going back to the main Gnucash repository until
they are completed and approved When that is the case I think it should be
possible for a single pull request from your PR into the main Github
repository to pull all changes through. 

Perhaps Geert or John can advise whether this is a sensible way to proceed.  

A lot of things will have to be synchronized when the new Guide document is
complete (changes to  links  and sections on website, in the wiki describing
the structure of the help manual and the guide, FAQs referencing it etc) and
moved into the main documentation.

If evryone is happy happy with this  I will set it up on my end incorporate
what I have done so far and  perhaps adjust it to be a bit more consistent
with the style and start sneding the changes through to you.

David Cousens



-
David Cousens
--
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Re: [GNC-dev] Windows Build not working

2018-09-15 Thread John Ralls



> On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Robert Fewell <14ubo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Came across this today when trying to find a build with a working register
> date edit to see if I can find which commit broke it.
> For information in a register, click in the date field which removes the
> selection but you can not move the cursor with the arrow keys.
> 
> Looking at the nightlies...
> 3.2-191, register date works
> 3.2-258, register date does not work
> 3.2-263 register date still does not work and obviously starts
> 3.2-265 installs but will not start along with all later ones.
> 
> I may have time tomorrow to investigate, not sure at the moment.
> 
> Also is it possible to give more room for the file name on the website for
> the directory, see image.

Only Derek can change the display of the builds listing.

I think I know what's wrong with the installers after Monday, but I blew up my 
Windows build environment and it's taking a while to rebuild it. I should have 
a fix for that by tomorrow.

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: [GNC-dev] Git Questions With Documentation

2018-09-15 Thread David Cousens
David 

Main reason I pushed it through to the current Help manual is that I had it 
completed to slot in there already apart
from a bit of minor debugging. If the current vesion of the guide continues for 
v3.3 I thought it was worth having it in
the help manual at least. I agree it is really material for the guide. I had a 
look at your Github repository but I
coudn't see a branch for the new guide and you were 139 commits behind the 
maint on the Gnucash github, so I figured it
was easier to put it there and you can extract it from there. Changes are in 
Help_ch_Transactions.xml. I can send you
the code that you can slot into an appropriate position in the guide or 
formulate it as a pull request.  It is mainly
 and  structures that should slot into an existing chapter 
structure without any problem. I'll attach the
XML file here as well.

There is one reference to a figure which is missing in the Import QIF section 
as for some reason i couldn't pull it off
the wiki and a few points where a couple of pics of the import matcher would 
make things even clearer. I'll put together
a patch for that. Probably worth waiting for the new guide to do that.

David Cousens




On Fri, 2018-09-14 at 22:51 -0400, David T. wrote:
> David,
> 
> A couple of points.
> 
> Why not put this directly into the new chapter in the Guide, rather than into 
> the Help? This is precisely the kind of
> detailed information that belongs IMHO in the Guide rather than Help. I know 
> it’s not in Maint yet, but it will be
> shortly.
> 
> Next, in the interest of completeness, your list should include *all* import 
> formats, and stub sections for those
> formats later on. Someone else can provide detail later on, but the basic 
> description needs to be complete.
> 
> Otherwise, this looks great. Thanks!
> 
> David T.
> 
> 
> > On Sep 14, 2018, at 9:29 PM, David Cousens  wrote:
> > 
> > David ,
> > 
> > I have completed the import section as an addition to the Help  manual  CH
> > 6. I have put a pull request to gnucash-docs on Github to incorporate it
> > into maint as the changes for the multiple selection may possibly go into
> > the next release.
> > 
> > Once it has been pulled into the main Github repository as Bug 796856.  I
> > think you will be able to get it by rebasing your repository to the maint
> > branch of the gnucash-docs Github repository. I only know enough git to be
> > dangerous so am not the best source of advice on how exactly to do that at
> > this stage. I am starting to understand what is going on now. I have used
> > git for quite a few years to my own repository but am now getting used to
> > the 3 way operation for code and documentation updates to GnuCash.
> > 
> > David Cousens
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > David Cousens
> > --
> > Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html
> > ___
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> > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
> 
> 

Help_ch_Transactions.xml
Description: XML document
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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread Adrien Monteleone
Perhaps ‘double entry accounting’ would be more accurate than ‘financial 
management’.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Sep 15, 2018, at 12:21 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> To be specific: in the main README, I would eliminate the Overview 
> altogether, and replace it with:
> 
> GnuCash is a double entry personal and small business financial management 
> package.
> 
> Home Page:
> http://www.gnucash.org/
> 
> Precompiled binaries:
> http://www.gnucash.org/download
> 
> That is it.
> 
> All the remaining sections should be altered to refer readers to the fuller 
> and more up-to-date information as it resides elsewhere (most notably, on the 
> wiki or website).
> 


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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread David T. via gnucash-devel



> On Sep 15, 2018, at 1:22 PM, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Furthermore, in the interest of eliminating bit rot and in using the right 
>> tool for the right job, I would strip the README back drastically to cover 
>> only basic technical details on downloading, installing, and running 
>> GnuCash. Everything else should go, IMHO.
> 
> With pointers to where to find the other information, of course...
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls


Of course! Always my intention.
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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread David T. via gnucash-devel
And if we’re going there, the main project includes numerous README files in 
gnucash/doc, all of which need similar treatment. README files for WIN32, HCBI 
and OFX should IMHO be removed altogether in favor of other venues (didn’t HBCI 
get replaced by FinTS in, like, 2002?).

David

> On Sep 15, 2018, at 1:21 PM, David T.  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 12:55 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 5:29 AM, Frank H. Ellenberger 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As we are already there,
>>> 
>>> one of you Davids might also review
>>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/README section overview,
>>> 
>>> and probably  files in
>>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/maint/doc
>>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/blob/maint/gnucash-docs.spec.in
>>> ...
>>> which borrow the intro
>>> 
>>> There have been "shiny new features" of 1.x which no one any longer
>>> would mention for the 3.x series.
>>> 
>> 
>> Honestly, I think the text in the README would more accurately reflect 
>> John’s concerns about the breathless tone found in the Guide, and so I am 
>> more likely to put *that* text into the Guide, rather go the other way. 
>> 
>> Furthermore, in the interest of eliminating bit rot and in using the right 
>> tool for the right job, I would strip the README back drastically to cover 
>> only basic technical details on downloading, installing, and running 
>> GnuCash. Everything else should go, IMHO.
>> 
>> David
>> 
> 
> To be specific: in the main README, I would eliminate the Overview 
> altogether, and replace it with:
> 
> GnuCash is a double entry personal and small business financial management 
> package.
> 
> Home Page:
> http://www.gnucash.org/
> 
> Precompiled binaries:
> http://www.gnucash.org/download
> 
> That is it.
> 
> All the remaining sections should be altered to refer readers to the fuller 
> and more up-to-date information as it resides elsewhere (most notably, on the 
> wiki or website).
> 
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>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
> 

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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread John Ralls


> On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:55 AM, David T.  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 5:29 AM, Frank H. Ellenberger 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As we are already there,
>> 
>> one of you Davids might also review
>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/README section overview,
>> 
>> and probably  files in
>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/maint/doc
>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/blob/maint/gnucash-docs.spec.in
>> ...
>> which borrow the intro
>> 
>> There have been "shiny new features" of 1.x which no one any longer
>> would mention for the 3.x series.
>> 
> 
> Honestly, I think the text in the README would more accurately reflect John’s 
> concerns about the breathless tone found in the Guide, and so I am more 
> likely to put *that* text into the Guide, rather go the other way. 
> 
> Furthermore, in the interest of eliminating bit rot and in using the right 
> tool for the right job, I would strip the README back drastically to cover 
> only basic technical details on downloading, installing, and running GnuCash. 
> Everything else should go, IMHO.

With pointers to where to find the other information, of course...

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: [GNC-dev] Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread David T. via gnucash-devel
That sounds like program development. I only do documentation. 

> On Sep 14, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Adrien Monteleone 
>  wrote:
> 
> Since John indicated there is not an effort to adhere to the current Gnome 
> HIG, that statement should probably be removed. (as they don’t conform any 
> longer)
> 
> But there are a few places where I think they can be simplified, particularly 
> some items in the Actions menu should probably be moved to Tools.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2018, at 1:57 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> In the course of another arduous and lengthy thread, the question of the 
>> Gnome HIG came up. I attach the text in question below.
>> 
>> My question is whether the Guide needs changing at 1.2.1, where it says:
>> Easy to Use Menus: GnuCash menus conform to the GNOME Human Interface 
>> Guidelines. This means that they are simple and similar in appearance to 
>> many other GNOME applications. 
>> 
>> Is this statement inaccurate? Should it be removed?
>> 
>> David
>> 
>>  
>> Previous discussion:
>> 
>> I don't know about allowing room for it, but it's pretty far in the future 
>> because we still have too many Gnome dependencies in the core and too many 
>> MVC violations to be able to implement a different toolkit.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
>>> mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Then I misunderstood some earlier discussions about the UI, at least with 
>>> respect to Linux. What toolkit is envisioned to be used? What layout 
>>> principles? Or are those questions so far in the future as to not be worth 
>>> spending time allowing room for?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Adrien
>>> 
 On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:18 PM, John Ralls >>> > wrote:
 
 
 
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
> mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:13 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>> mailto:gnucash-devel@gnucash.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> In other words, unless there is a change in function, there is no need 
>> to change the functional description. It seems to me that putting text 
>> that doesn’t change into code is essentially a one-time process. Not 
>> necessarily easy, but once completed, not particularly obtrusive. 
>> Putting the functional description into code has the added benefit, 
>> perhaps, of alerting developers to the fact that if they change a 
>> feature, the description (right there in the code) needs an update as 
>> well.
> 
> While the principles might not change, or even the name/label of certain 
> buttons, the UI layout (where those buttons are, the fact that they are 
> buttons instead of menu entries, etc.) will very likely change as the 
> Gnome HIG is more faithfully implemented. But those code changes 
> shouldn’t affect anything generally in the Guide, and should auto update 
> the context help if it is drawn from the code itself. If not, then 
> consider that attempts to corral GnuCash within the confines of the Gnome 
> HIG, will produce such changes you’re thinking won’t happen.
 
 Why do you think we're going to "more faithfully implement" the Gnome HIG? 
 One of our long-term goals is to remove our Gnome dependencies. 
 
 Regards,
 John Ralls
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread David T. via gnucash-devel


> On Sep 15, 2018, at 12:55 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 5:29 AM, Frank H. Ellenberger 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As we are already there,
>> 
>> one of you Davids might also review
>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/README section overview,
>> 
>> and probably  files in
>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/maint/doc
>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/blob/maint/gnucash-docs.spec.in
>> ...
>> which borrow the intro
>> 
>> There have been "shiny new features" of 1.x which no one any longer
>> would mention for the 3.x series.
>> 
> 
> Honestly, I think the text in the README would more accurately reflect John’s 
> concerns about the breathless tone found in the Guide, and so I am more 
> likely to put *that* text into the Guide, rather go the other way. 
> 
> Furthermore, in the interest of eliminating bit rot and in using the right 
> tool for the right job, I would strip the README back drastically to cover 
> only basic technical details on downloading, installing, and running GnuCash. 
> Everything else should go, IMHO.
> 
> David
> 

To be specific: in the main README, I would eliminate the Overview altogether, 
and replace it with:

GnuCash is a double entry personal and small business financial management 
package.

Home Page:
http://www.gnucash.org/

Precompiled binaries:
http://www.gnucash.org/download

That is it.

All the remaining sections should be altered to refer readers to the fuller and 
more up-to-date information as it resides elsewhere (most notably, on the wiki 
or website).

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Re: [GNC-dev] Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread Adrien Monteleone
Since John indicated there is not an effort to adhere to the current Gnome HIG, 
that statement should probably be removed. (as they don’t conform any longer)

But there are a few places where I think they can be simplified, particularly 
some items in the Actions menu should probably be moved to Tools.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Sep 14, 2018, at 1:57 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> In the course of another arduous and lengthy thread, the question of the 
> Gnome HIG came up. I attach the text in question below.
> 
> My question is whether the Guide needs changing at 1.2.1, where it says:
> Easy to Use Menus: GnuCash menus conform to the GNOME Human Interface 
> Guidelines. This means that they are simple and similar in appearance to many 
> other GNOME applications. 
> 
> Is this statement inaccurate? Should it be removed?
> 
> David
> 
>  
> Previous discussion:
> 
> I don't know about allowing room for it, but it's pretty far in the future 
> because we still have too many Gnome dependencies in the core and too many 
> MVC violations to be able to implement a different toolkit.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
>> mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Then I misunderstood some earlier discussions about the UI, at least with 
>> respect to Linux. What toolkit is envisioned to be used? What layout 
>> principles? Or are those questions so far in the future as to not be worth 
>> spending time allowing room for?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:18 PM, John Ralls >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
 mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> 
 wrote:
 
 
 
> On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:13 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
> mailto:gnucash-devel@gnucash.org>> wrote:
> 
> In other words, unless there is a change in function, there is no need to 
> change the functional description. It seems to me that putting text that 
> doesn’t change into code is essentially a one-time process. Not 
> necessarily easy, but once completed, not particularly obtrusive. Putting 
> the functional description into code has the added benefit, perhaps, of 
> alerting developers to the fact that if they change a feature, the 
> description (right there in the code) needs an update as well.
 
 While the principles might not change, or even the name/label of certain 
 buttons, the UI layout (where those buttons are, the fact that they are 
 buttons instead of menu entries, etc.) will very likely change as the 
 Gnome HIG is more faithfully implemented. But those code changes shouldn’t 
 affect anything generally in the Guide, and should auto update the context 
 help if it is drawn from the code itself. If not, then consider that 
 attempts to corral GnuCash within the confines of the Gnome HIG, will 
 produce such changes you’re thinking won’t happen.
>>> 
>>> Why do you think we're going to "more faithfully implement" the Gnome HIG? 
>>> One of our long-term goals is to remove our Gnome dependencies. 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> John Ralls
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread David T. via gnucash-devel


> On Sep 15, 2018, at 5:29 AM, Frank H. Ellenberger 
>  wrote:
> 
> As we are already there,
> 
> one of you Davids might also review
> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/README section overview,
> 
> and probably  files in
> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/maint/doc
> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/blob/maint/gnucash-docs.spec.in
> ...
> which borrow the intro
> 
> There have been "shiny new features" of 1.x which no one any longer
> would mention for the 3.x series.
> 

Honestly, I think the text in the README would more accurately reflect John’s 
concerns about the breathless tone found in the Guide, and so I am more likely 
to put *that* text into the Guide, rather go the other way. 

Furthermore, in the interest of eliminating bit rot and in using the right tool 
for the right job, I would strip the README back drastically to cover only 
basic technical details on downloading, installing, and running GnuCash. 
Everything else should go, IMHO.

David

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Re: [GNC-dev] Yet another documentation compiling oddity

2018-09-15 Thread John Ralls
If an attacker guesses the path a -Indexes directive won’t stop him from 
requesting the directory from the server. It should return a 403 if there’s no 
index.html, but perhaps there are servers out there that fail, or perhaps the 
web design folks think that a blank page is better than a 403.

Of course it’s also possible that the practice got going before -Indexes was 
added and never went away, or that since .htaccess is an Apache thing it’s not 
sufficiently general (nginx seems to require per-directory config of its 
autoindex module in its config file, no idea about IIS).

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Sep 14, 2018, at 9:13 PM, Adrien Monteleone 
>  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. I’ll investigate. I’ve never had an issue that I’m aware of. If 
> the server won’t even let you get there due to the directive...?
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Ralls  wrote:
>> 
>> It's my understanding that that's less than perfect. It's standard practice 
>> in the the CMS world to put poisoned index.html files in directories where 
>> you don't want browsers poking their noses.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
> 
> 
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[GNC-dev] README Overview; was: Gnome HIG

2018-09-15 Thread Frank H. Ellenberger
As we are already there,

one of you Davids might also review
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/README section overview,

and probably  files in
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/maint/doc
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/blob/maint/gnucash-docs.spec.in
...
which borrow the intro

There have been "shiny new features" of 1.x which no one any longer
would mention for the 3.x series.

Frank

Am 15.09.18 um 00:42 schrieb John Ralls:
> We're probably pretty compliant with the Gnome 2.0 HIG, but the Gnome HIG has 
> changed over the years and GnuCash's UI hasn't. Just switching to Gtk3 
> probably got us some updates just because Gtk is what implements the HIG, but 
> that would have been largely inadvertent.
> 
> For the purposes of the documentation I don't think we should be making any 
> claims like that.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2018, at 11:57 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> In the course of another arduous and lengthy thread, the question of the 
>> Gnome HIG came up. I attach the text in question below.
>>
>> My question is whether the Guide needs changing at 1.2.1, where it says:
>> Easy to Use Menus: GnuCash menus conform to the GNOME Human Interface 
>> Guidelines. This means that they are simple and similar in appearance to 
>> many other GNOME applications. 
>>
>> Is this statement inaccurate? Should it be removed?
>>
>> David
>>
>>  
>> Previous discussion:
>>
>> I don't know about allowing room for it, but it's pretty far in the future 
>> because we still have too many Gnome dependencies in the core and too many 
>> MVC violations to be able to implement a different toolkit.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
>>> mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Then I misunderstood some earlier discussions about the UI, at least with 
>>> respect to Linux. What toolkit is envisioned to be used? What layout 
>>> principles? Or are those questions so far in the future as to not be worth 
>>> spending time allowing room for?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Adrien
>>>
 On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:18 PM, John Ralls >>> > wrote:



> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
> mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:13 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel 
>> mailto:gnucash-devel@gnucash.org>> wrote:
>>
>> In other words, unless there is a change in function, there is no need 
>> to change the functional description. It seems to me that putting text 
>> that doesn’t change into code is essentially a one-time process. Not 
>> necessarily easy, but once completed, not particularly obtrusive. 
>> Putting the functional description into code has the added benefit, 
>> perhaps, of alerting developers to the fact that if they change a 
>> feature, the description (right there in the code) needs an update as 
>> well.
>
> While the principles might not change, or even the name/label of certain 
> buttons, the UI layout (where those buttons are, the fact that they are 
> buttons instead of menu entries, etc.) will very likely change as the 
> Gnome HIG is more faithfully implemented. But those code changes 
> shouldn’t affect anything generally in the Guide, and should auto update 
> the context help if it is drawn from the code itself. If not, then 
> consider that attempts to corral GnuCash within the confines of the Gnome 
> HIG, will produce such changes you’re thinking won’t happen.

 Why do you think we're going to "more faithfully implement" the Gnome HIG? 
 One of our long-term goals is to remove our Gnome dependencies. 

 Regards,
 John Ralls
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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