Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 5:13 PM, Bryan Baldwin wrote: On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: snip We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere all the time...end-less-ly. Everybody wishes that their software was robust with magic documentation and free specialists that will fix your

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 12:55 PM, Richard Talley wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com mailto:snowsh...@q.com wrote: I can't speak for Rich, but it was not my intent to leave an impression of mass exodus. Just my pulling back from the potential promise I saw

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 8:32 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: 24/10/2013 15:59, Ken Springer: There is also the segment of the open source area where they actively ask you to file bugs that can be fixed. Then the bugs just sit there, never getting fixed. If you aren't going to actively fix the bugs, then

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/25/2013 01:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/24/13 5:13 PM, Bryan Baldwin wrote: On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: snip We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it

Re: Getting Support: was: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 1:27 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:32:55 -0600 Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: Product support, customer service, in general, sucks. Online, offline, commercial, open source, just about everywhere. For software these days, you are supposed to join a forum. If

Re: why people give up on open source software

2013/10/24 Ken Springe > > Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. >> > > Not sure how you feel, so no reply. He's serious, and so am I: if you want "professional" software and think LyX is not professional (or if it does not fit your needs for other reasons), don't use it. Sine ira et

Re: why people give up on open source software

X package, generalizes it to all Open Source (except LyX), and then somehow turns that into "why people give up on open source software", as if there's some kind of mass exodus from Open Source. How does THAT work? My observation is that Open Source is gaining mindshare and usage pretty much

Re: why people give up on open source software

You do seem to have very strong opinions about open-source, and demand very high standards. Would you care to tell us how many open-source projects have you created or at least been an active developer in? On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > I do, but that's

Re: why people give up on open source software

Hi, Jürgen, Interspersed reply... On 10/24/13 1:01 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: 2013/10/24 Ken Springe Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Not sure how you feel, so no reply. He's serious, and so am I: if you want "professional" software and think LyX is not

Re: why people give up on open source software

24/10/2013 15:59, Ken Springer: There is also the segment of the open source area where they actively ask you to file bugs that can be fixed. Then the bugs just sit there, never getting fixed. If you aren't going to actively fix the bugs, then don't ask for help in identifying those bugs.

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > Hi, Jürgen, > > Interspersed reply... > > > On 10/24/13 1:01 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > >> 2013/10/24 Ken Springe >> >> Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. >> >> >> Not sure how you feel, so no

Re: why people give up on open source software

gress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people." Another puzzler: someone has a problem with a single LaTeX package, generalizes it to all Open Source (except LyX), and then somehow turns that into "why people give up on open source software", as if there's some kind of mass exo

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 24/10/2013 07:32, Richard Talley wrote: > I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project > management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for > everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good > luck with it. A somewhat close analog

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: > > I can't speak for Rich, but it was not my intent to leave an impression of > "mass exodus". Just my pulling back from the potential promise I saw that > open source has, but IMO is not doing a good job of meeting. I

Getting Support: was: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:32:55 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: > Product support, customer service, in general, sucks. Online, > offline, commercial, open source, just about everywhere. For > software these days, you are supposed to join a forum. If I went > back through all my forum

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Walter van Holst wrote: > On 24/10/2013 07:32, Richard Talley wrote: >> I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project >> management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for >> everything until

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 25/10/2013 3:32 a.m., Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: I cannot speak for other free (as in freedom) software, but the deal is simple: programmers do what they can and scratch their own itches, either because they need a feature or they want to implement it, and users do what they want and

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere all the time...end-less-ly. Everybody wishes that their software was robust with magic documentation and free specialists that will fix your

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 9:03 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Ken Springer > wrote: Hi, Jürgen, Interspersed reply... On 10/24/13 1:01 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: 2013/10/24 Ken Springe

Re: why people give up on open source software

I'm not a programmer, learned many years ago that is not for me. But I did contribute, for free, to writing the help files of a commercial program for a platform now long gone. But, as I wrote in news://news.gmane.org:119/l4bi37$vh$1...@ger.gmane.org, if I help by reporting bugs I find in a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 11:35 AM, Walter van Holst wrote: On 24/10/2013 07:32, Richard Talley wrote: I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 5:13 PM, Bryan Baldwin wrote: On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere all the time...end-less-ly. Everybody wishes that their software was robust with magic documentation and free specialists that will fix your

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 12:55 PM, Richard Talley wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ken Springer > wrote: I can't speak for Rich, but it was not my intent to leave an impression of "mass exodus". Just my pulling back from the potential promise

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 8:32 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: 24/10/2013 15:59, Ken Springer: There is also the segment of the open source area where they actively ask you to file bugs that can be fixed. Then the bugs just sit there, never getting fixed. If you aren't going to actively fix the bugs, then

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/25/2013 01:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/24/13 5:13 PM, Bryan Baldwin wrote: On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere

Re: Getting Support: was: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 1:27 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:32:55 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: Product support, customer service, in general, sucks. Online, offline, commercial, open source, just about everywhere. For software these days, you are supposed to join a forum.

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.comwrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came

Re: why people give up on open source software

Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com írta: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn#39;t make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I#39;m helping a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote: Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out, rather sketchy. But with a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a

Re: why people give up on open source software

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is developed by *volunteers*, do you? On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.

Re: why people give up on open source software

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. I do have some free software installed, some open source, some not. But I get updates and bug fixes from the free software, not so much from the open

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote: On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not

Re: why people give up on open source software

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Vincent

Re: why people give up on open source software

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Not sure how

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote: On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote: Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote: Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. Most of the

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any tweaking. As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger paint'.

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.comwrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came

Re: why people give up on open source software

Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com írta: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn#39;t make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I#39;m helping a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote: Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out, rather sketchy. But with a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a

Re: why people give up on open source software

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is developed by *volunteers*, do you? On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.

Re: why people give up on open source software

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. I do have some free software installed, some open source, some not. But I get updates and bug fixes from the free software, not so much from the open

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote: On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not

Re: why people give up on open source software

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Vincent

Re: why people give up on open source software

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Not sure how

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote: On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote: Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote: Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. Most of the

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any tweaking. As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger paint'.

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley wrote: > I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical > manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal > with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. > > LyX really

Re: why people give up on open source software

Richard Talley írta: >I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical >manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didnt make me >deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. >LyX really came through for me. >Now Im helping a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley wrote: > Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, > under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out, rather sketchy. But with a

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a

Re: why people give up on open source software

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is developed by *volunteers*, do you? On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: > >> I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.

Re: why people give up on open source software

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. I do have some "free" software installed, some open source, some not. But I get updates and bug fixes from the "free" software, not so much from the open

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote: On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not

Re: why people give up on open source software

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Vincent

Re: why people give up on open source software

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Not sure how

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote: On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley wrote: Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote: Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. Most of the

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > > > LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite > thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any > tweaking. > As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger

why people give up on open source software

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the

why people give up on open source software

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the

why people give up on open source software

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the

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