Re: [MORPHMET2] Compiling metadata on all methods of phylogenetic inference using GM data

2024-02-05 Thread Joe Felsenstein
Morphmet people -- I want to concur with Jacqueline Silviria and with Chris Klingenberg about the difficulties of using morphometric analyses to infer phylogenies. Just to "violently agree": This is a more general problem with quantitative characters of any kind. I often get asked how to use

Re: [MORPHMET2] Compiling metadata on all methods of phylogenetic inference using GM data

2024-02-05 Thread Chris Klingenberg
Dear Jacqueline You say that you “agree it was the nail in the coffin for the coding of X, Y, and Z coordinates as independent characters”. Actually, the simulations in the paper by Varón-González et al. are based on lineages/taxa evolving in multidimensional spaces without specifying anything

Re: [MORPHMET2] ontogenetic trajectories and phylogenetic hierarchy

2024-02-05 Thread Jacqueline Silviria
Good morning, These were the first articles that came to mind: Simons, E. A., Frost, S. R., & Singleton, M. (2018). Ontogeny and phylogeny of the cercopithecine cranium: A geometric morphometric approach to comparing shape change trajectories. Journal of Human Evolution, 124, 40-51.

RE: [MORPHMET2] ontogenetic trajectories and phylogenetic hierarchy

2024-02-05 Thread Adams, Dean [EEOB]
This paper looks at ontogenetic trajectories and their convergence. Some discussion of phylogenetic shifts are discussed at the end: Adams, D.C. and A. Nistri. 2010. Ontogenetic convergence and evolution of foot morphology in European cave salamanders (Family: Plethodontidae). BMC

Re: [MORPHMET2] ontogenetic trajectories and phylogenetic hierarchy

2024-02-05 Thread Paolo Piras
Hi Andrea, maybe: Piras, P., Colangelo P., Adams D.C., Buscalioni A., Cubo J., Kotsakis T., Meloro C. & Raia P. (2010) - The Gavialis-Tomistoma debate: the contribution of skull ontogenetic allometry and growth trajectories to the study of crocodylian relationships. Evolution and Development, 12:

[MORPHMET2] ontogenetic trajectories and phylogenetic hierarchy

2024-02-05 Thread andrea cardini
Dear All, I was looking for refs on the good or bad correspondence between divergence in ontogenetic trajectories (including allometry and even static allometry when present) and phylogenetic hierarchy. A simple question could be something like whether in a lineage we find smaller angles